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I don't think it's cognitive decline unless you are in your golden years.
It's motivation, pure and simple. When you're younger it's easier to get gung-ho about video games, when you get older you begin to desire a different life.
If there is a cognitive decline in the 30s or so, then maybe that is caused by the changes in lifestyle, and not the other way around. Basically, the more experience you accumulate, the less new stuff you are taking in because you've already seen it all. Same thing happens when you develop more routines in your life. So once your motivation and learning slow down, your brain adapts by slowing down too.
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On February 06 2012 22:29 karpo wrote: People higher up in ages aren't as many in professional gaming because of several reasons.
Let's be honest -- the reason there aren't many 35 year olds in professional gaming is that professional gaming didn't exist before they were in their mid-20s, and they were already on a path to something else.
I don't think this question will really be answered until the current round of gamers start to hit 35 or so... and I don't think the Korean players are a great source of data. Korean attitude toward age and its physical effects might well be more self-defeating than Western attitudes, or players dropping out may ultimately be because of, say, family pressure to do something else. I really don't know, and I'm not sure anyone else will for a while.
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Anyone else notice how more or less everything seems to be repeating on these forums? Threads about macro mechanics, this thread about losing APM with age, a thread about blob vs blob, a thread about defenders advantage etc.
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I'm only 25 years old and I've only seen an increased APM and an improved ability to play and multitask in play play as I've gotten older. I've been getting higher and higher ranked in the RTS games I've played and my APM has gone from 150 average when I was around 18 to around 230 average now at the age of 25.
Basically what I think is that getting older up until your like 40 matters so very little compared to the effort you put in when it comes to gaming.
Maybe the highest top tier player who puts in an absolute maximum amount of practice at the highest level might feel a difference when he hits his mid 30's but for everyone else it plays such a tiny role compared to the efforts you put in.
But I do think, however, that the disadvantage of being old comes into greater effect if you're trying to learn a completely new kind of game that you have no prior experience with, since young people are very skilled at picking up new stuff whereas older people rely more on previous experiences.
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On February 06 2012 22:39 karpo wrote: Anyone else notice how more or less everything seems to be repeating on these forums? Threads about macro mechanics, this thread about losing APM with age, a thread about blob vs blob, a thread about defenders advantage etc.
Well it's not really my fault this popped up again, sorry about that. Someone randomly necro'd it :D I guess it is a little bit repetitive in here at this point, tho I still enjoy checking the posts- especially the posts from people who are coming from the older perspective, since I don't get the chance to interact with that many much-older-than-me people on a regular basis
If you mean to say this thread is another version of many threads that have already been made in the past, I'd say this one offers a bit of a different take on the issue. Here's the last one I could find from 7-8 years ago in all its glory: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=18435
So with this I figured I wanted to build an explanation for why there is this idea out there that as we get older, we get slower (which has some truth to it, but as you can see it's much more complex and variable), but also I wanted to try to say that although there IS scientific reasoning behind aging and its effects on neural performance, there is most likely little to zero impact on SC2 performance, for a big variety of good reasons, many of which can be found here in this thread.
But yeah, tl;dr there are only so many topics related to SC2 that can be discussed, so I guess with that in mind it's good to at least offer a different perspective or some new info when bringing up a repeated topic
On January 12 2012 15:50 Mongolbonjwa wrote: This thread is full of broscience According to Google, Broscience is when bros use anecdotal evidence to discuss body building. This thread uses scientific evidence to look at neural activity and how it affects, or does not affect, playing SC2 at any level.
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Im 25ish, but I think I still peaking.
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How about the alternative I'm young AND over 25. Still as fast as ever and my cognitive abilities are way better than they used to be.
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I'm almost 28 (in march) and I' m faster then ever.
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On February 06 2012 23:06 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 22:39 karpo wrote: Anyone else notice how more or less everything seems to be repeating on these forums? Threads about macro mechanics, this thread about losing APM with age, a thread about blob vs blob, a thread about defenders advantage etc. Well it's not really my fault this popped up again, sorry about that. Someone randomly necro'd it :D
I mean i've seen this exact discussion 4-5 months ago.
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Neurosciences have shown that cognitive decline happens. Does that happen to the average person in their 20s? No.
There are plenty of ways to slow the effects but it still will happen, its just wont happen to a normal individual who is only in their 20s and 30s.
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Asking the questions in the poll to a casual audience is not really helpful at all - this is because the majority of people are going to feel that they are fine. They would be absolutely correct, since age should be no barrier to attaining a very gettable goal such as Masters or even GM.
The question should be aimed at players attempting to compete in the highest levels for it to have meaning.
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huh? i never understood this. Your reaction time and muscle development in males hits their peak around late 20s. The only reason older males feel slower is because they probably have a lot less time to practice as they have real life priorities, a job, a wife, a family, school etc. They can't afford to sit there and sometimes pull all nighters practicing. Speed is something you can gain and that your muscles in your forearms and handles retain if you keep at it. If not you'll lose speed, simple as that
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I think it's a combination of motivation/passion possibly declining and human's trying to blame something they can't control instead of trying to get better when they suck at something.
I'm 28 now and while I don't obsess as much about games I can certainly play them just as well as I used to. In some cases even better as I am more disciplined in theory and patience now.
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what i notice more, as a 20 year old, is that players that are 14-15 improve a lot quicker than i do. A year ago, there were several players like that that I was beating, and then with about the same practice regiment, they improved a lot faster than me and my other friends closer to my age.
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Just turned 27 here.
I was around at the beginning of esports (BW birth and the rise of counter-strike).
I played CS competitively (sponsored/ traveled etc) from around 2002 to 2005 when i was aged 18-20. From there i went on to play wc3 in the top100 on EU ladder, but never took it seriously.
I can say 100% that i am slower in some way than i was 5 years ago. When i hop onto a CS server now for an hour or 2 I can literally see how i have declined in reaction time/ thought process. Granted, a lot of it is to do with the fact im desperately out of practice compared to the 6+ hours a day/night i put into CS in my prime, but i feel like there is something else too.
It is a really, really helpless feeling and the main reason i dont touch CS now.
SC2 on the other hand... i dont feel like my age hinders me at all (apart from not being able to prac much). Reaction times just arent as important and there is more than a split second to make a decision most of the time.
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Err, well, there's always been plenty of great aged pianists in history, but I do think there's something about youth that makes you improve much quicker than if you started later in your life.
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On February 06 2012 22:39 karpo wrote: Anyone else notice how more or less everything seems to be repeating on these forums? Threads about macro mechanics, this thread about losing APM with age, a thread about blob vs blob, a thread about defenders advantage etc.
Ran the TL search feature on the terms:
Macro Mechanics - Lots APM with Age - nothing Defender's Advantage - 1 thread
Did I miss the multitudes of threads on these things? I'm sure everyone has said something like what the OP and other posters here has been said before by someone - but on this forum? and as a topic of a thread? If so, please find it and forward people to it instead of posting your personal feelings as though they were substantiated fact without substantiating them.
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Let's see what the research says...
* basic reaction time tests show best times at age 20: J Gerontol (1958) 13 (4): 418-421. doi: 10.1093/geronj/13.4.418 * older active men were faster than young sedentary men: J Gerontol (1978) 33 (1): 26-30. doi: 10.1093/geronj/33.1.26 * reaction time slows starting at age 20 by 0.5 - 1.6 ms and slow downs are worse in women: J Gerontol (1994) 49 (4): P179-P189. doi: 10.1093/geronj/49.4.P179 * a 18-36 group outperformed a 61-91 group in a reaction time test: J Gerontol (1955) 10 (4): 429-432. doi: 10.1093/geronj/10.4.429 * reaction time slows by roughly 2 ms a decade: J Gerontol (1982) 37 (3): 342-348. doi: 10.1093/geronj/37.3.342
and my favorite one, "It would follow that when older and younger people are performing on tasks...on which they are well practiced, age differences may be non-existent.": J Gerontol (1970) 25 (3): 268-274. doi: 10.1093/geronj/25.3.268
In other words, if starcraft were simply about moving your hand to a light stimulus, then age might matter, but not much. But practiced complex tasks that require thinking about the choice, age is pretty irrelevant. And the notion that by 30 it would impact your play is insane.
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