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On January 03 2012 09:22 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 09:20 DoubleReed wrote:On January 03 2012 08:54 FallDownMarigold wrote:On January 03 2012 08:41 Natespank wrote:
the pictures or links in your spoiler section are broken, nothing displays. thanks for pointing that out! I fixed it :D On January 03 2012 08:50 DoubleReed wrote:
Physical motor skills do not decline like that. Especially computer skills, which are extremely quick, agile, precise motions (as opposed to say heavy lifting or endurance). It's much more similar to playing an instrument.
Instrumentalists do not lose the ability to use these skills at such early times. Decrease in motor skill in this regard only happens at really high ages, like 80 or 90, and even then you'd be surprised. Musicians that are very old almost always retain their speed, and in terms of pure speed, it's something that simply doesn't vanish with age. Actually you're wrong about that -- cognitive decline including decline affecting motor functions happens well before 80s/90s, on average. Of course, some people might not experience this decline til 80s/90s! Motor decline like running and things like that. Not twitch reflexes and muscle memory. They function differently. But why would these synapses and connections be immune to natural processes of synaptic decay? Are these motor neurons in some kind of a special environment? Maybe you're right, but I'd like to know the specifics
Speaking totally out of my ass, I think they are almost entirely in the cerebellum part of the brain, rather than cerebrum.
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On January 03 2012 09:24 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 09:22 FallDownMarigold wrote:On January 03 2012 09:20 DoubleReed wrote:On January 03 2012 08:54 FallDownMarigold wrote:On January 03 2012 08:41 Natespank wrote:
the pictures or links in your spoiler section are broken, nothing displays. thanks for pointing that out! I fixed it :D On January 03 2012 08:50 DoubleReed wrote:
Physical motor skills do not decline like that. Especially computer skills, which are extremely quick, agile, precise motions (as opposed to say heavy lifting or endurance). It's much more similar to playing an instrument.
Instrumentalists do not lose the ability to use these skills at such early times. Decrease in motor skill in this regard only happens at really high ages, like 80 or 90, and even then you'd be surprised. Musicians that are very old almost always retain their speed, and in terms of pure speed, it's something that simply doesn't vanish with age. Actually you're wrong about that -- cognitive decline including decline affecting motor functions happens well before 80s/90s, on average. Of course, some people might not experience this decline til 80s/90s! Motor decline like running and things like that. Not twitch reflexes and muscle memory. They function differently. But why would these synapses and connections be immune to natural processes of synaptic decay? Are these motor neurons in some kind of a special environment? Maybe you're right, but I'd like to know the specifics Speaking totally out of my ass, I think they are almost entirely in the cerebellum part of the brain, rather than cerebrum.
Ah, okay. I can't think of any differences between the environments, though -- they're still both CNS. Is there some sort of protective activity unique to the cerebellum? It's a primitive brain region, so maybe you're right. Again, I crave more info
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You're not worse, you're just having more things to do in real life.
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Nestea is 29
BoxeR is 32
Nada is 27
July is 25
Whitera is 31
Im only 20, so i cant tell from personal exeperiance, but when we look at the age of some pro players. i think we can conclude that your age will not pervent you from becoming an sc2 celeb
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Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
Only thing i noticed is that i (27) think too much. When i was younger i just did stuff. Now its first contemplation then action. I think that's what is slowing old ass men down.
Also i remember gaming as a kid 10 hours were nothing! Now i don't think i can peacefully sleep in bed for 10 hours. The whole mental picture changes as you get older, other priorities come up, you have your head filled with all kinds of shit so you just can't concentrate and enjoy gaming as a kid. It really sucks but that's how it is. I don't think i am phisically in any regard constrained in starcraft but mentally i don't think i can perform like when i was 15 years old. I don't know, maybe this is not true, maybe i can be the best player in the world even now! (SLAP ON THE FACE) Not.
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I'm in my mid 30's and I can tell that my apm has dropped a bit since my BW late 90's days. And it's not like I had periods of inactivity over the years. I've continously played BW and other rts, some fighter games and a few fps's and it was sometime about 5 years ago I realized I couldn't keep up with the young un's anymore.
Okay, I admit I no longer play 6+ hours of games a day anymore, it's more like 1-2 hours max.
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On January 03 2012 09:28 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 09:24 DoubleReed wrote:On January 03 2012 09:22 FallDownMarigold wrote:On January 03 2012 09:20 DoubleReed wrote:On January 03 2012 08:54 FallDownMarigold wrote:On January 03 2012 08:41 Natespank wrote:
the pictures or links in your spoiler section are broken, nothing displays. thanks for pointing that out! I fixed it :D On January 03 2012 08:50 DoubleReed wrote:
Physical motor skills do not decline like that. Especially computer skills, which are extremely quick, agile, precise motions (as opposed to say heavy lifting or endurance). It's much more similar to playing an instrument.
Instrumentalists do not lose the ability to use these skills at such early times. Decrease in motor skill in this regard only happens at really high ages, like 80 or 90, and even then you'd be surprised. Musicians that are very old almost always retain their speed, and in terms of pure speed, it's something that simply doesn't vanish with age. Actually you're wrong about that -- cognitive decline including decline affecting motor functions happens well before 80s/90s, on average. Of course, some people might not experience this decline til 80s/90s! Motor decline like running and things like that. Not twitch reflexes and muscle memory. They function differently. But why would these synapses and connections be immune to natural processes of synaptic decay? Are these motor neurons in some kind of a special environment? Maybe you're right, but I'd like to know the specifics Speaking totally out of my ass, I think they are almost entirely in the cerebellum part of the brain, rather than cerebrum. Ah, okay. I can't think of any differences between the environments, though -- they're still both CNS. Is there some sort of protective activity unique to the cerebellum? It's a primitive brain region, so maybe you're right. Again, I crave more info
Isn't this the H-Reflex though? That's been show several times to change as you age; this being a pretty good study: http://jp.physoc.org/content/548/2/649.full. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, there's definitely an age-related reduction in twitch reflexes (shown here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12738442).
Aside: thank you for changing your stance on the CR diet. I definitely know I play a lot better when I'm eating well and doing basic exercise compared to when I'm not and I think it's pretty much known that exercise and good eating are extremely important not only for playing Starcraft well, but also for just giving a top effort in all parts of your life. The problem is there's a lot of arguing about what exactly healthy eating is :-\
ed:
On January 03 2012 09:35 e4e5nf3 wrote:
I'm in my mid 30's and I can tell that my apm has dropped a bit since my BW late 90's days. And it's not like I had periods of inactivity over the years. I've continously played BW and other rts, some fighter games and a few fps's and it was sometime about 5 years ago I realized I couldn't keep up with the young un's anymore.
Okay, I admit I no longer play 6+ hours of games a day anymore, it's more like 1-2 hours max.
To be honest, that's absolutely inactivity. Just because you don't 100% stop doesn't mean you are being completely active. It's also possible (I have no clue, just throwing it out there) that you've done some internal damage to your wrists/fingers if you play at a high APM through poor posture and stuff.
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On January 03 2012 09:30 Kaien wrote:
Nestea is 29
BoxeR is 32
Nada is 27
July is 25
Whitera is 31
Im only 20, so i cant tell from personal exeperiance, but when we look at the age of some pro players. i think we can conclude that your age will not pervent you from becoming an sc2 celeb
But keep in mind that these same players probably won't be ranked so high if there were a complete transfer of BW players to sc2. Say what you will about sc2 being a completely different game from bw, there is much to be said about the mechanical ability of the current BW elite.
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On January 03 2012 09:35 ShadowWolf wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 09:28 FallDownMarigold wrote:On January 03 2012 09:24 DoubleReed wrote:On January 03 2012 09:22 FallDownMarigold wrote:On January 03 2012 09:20 DoubleReed wrote:On January 03 2012 08:54 FallDownMarigold wrote:On January 03 2012 08:41 Natespank wrote:
the pictures or links in your spoiler section are broken, nothing displays. thanks for pointing that out! I fixed it :D On January 03 2012 08:50 DoubleReed wrote:
Physical motor skills do not decline like that. Especially computer skills, which are extremely quick, agile, precise motions (as opposed to say heavy lifting or endurance). It's much more similar to playing an instrument.
Instrumentalists do not lose the ability to use these skills at such early times. Decrease in motor skill in this regard only happens at really high ages, like 80 or 90, and even then you'd be surprised. Musicians that are very old almost always retain their speed, and in terms of pure speed, it's something that simply doesn't vanish with age. Actually you're wrong about that -- cognitive decline including decline affecting motor functions happens well before 80s/90s, on average. Of course, some people might not experience this decline til 80s/90s! Motor decline like running and things like that. Not twitch reflexes and muscle memory. They function differently. But why would these synapses and connections be immune to natural processes of synaptic decay? Are these motor neurons in some kind of a special environment? Maybe you're right, but I'd like to know the specifics Speaking totally out of my ass, I think they are almost entirely in the cerebellum part of the brain, rather than cerebrum. Ah, okay. I can't think of any differences between the environments, though -- they're still both CNS. Is there some sort of protective activity unique to the cerebellum? It's a primitive brain region, so maybe you're right. Again, I crave more info Isn't this the H-Reflex though? That's been show several times to change as you age; this being a pretty good study: http://jp.physoc.org/content/548/2/649.full. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, there's definitely an age-related reduction in twitch reflexes (shown here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12738442). Aside: thank you for changing your stance on the CR diet. I definitely know I play a lot better when I'm eating well and doing basic exercise compared to when I'm not and I think it's pretty much known that exercise and good eating are extremely important not only for playing Starcraft well, but also for just giving a top effort in all parts of your life. The problem is there's a lot of arguing about what exactly healthy eating is :-\
Yeah, Musketeer helped me to see that I worded it very poorly. I initially took offense because it seemed he was simply saying "U MADE IT ALL UP!" but I see what he meant now. It's not wise to stupidly throw the term "caloric restriction" around, then assume people know what I meant in reference to mouse studies, then assume they know what I mean when I suggest it as an idea applicable to real life. What I really meant to say was a good diet is probably beneficial both in terms of cognition and aging. I definitely don't want people to cut calories below a healthy level
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Where is the option to say '25 isn't old........ '
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I think age is only one of the factors in play here. Age, diet, and exercise combine to determine our ability to focus and multitask over a long period of time. Physical conditioning allows us to focus and practice over long periods without getting tired or diminishing skill level.
When we are young, I think most people can cram junk food down their throats and the natural metabolism is high enough to overcome the short term side effects.
As I get older (38 years) I find that my mental abilities are MUCH more effected by diet and exercise compared to my high school and college years. Before I turned 25, diet and lack of exercise seemed like a non-factor in how I felt, but now if I eat fast food and drink soft drinks, I ride a roller coaster of energy levels that doesn't allow me to focus for long periods of time.
TL,DR = After 25 you better eat right and exercise.
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On January 03 2012 09:30 Kaien wrote:
Nestea is 29
BoxeR is 32
Nada is 27
July is 25
Whitera is 31
Im only 20, so i cant tell from personal exeperiance, but when we look at the age of some pro players. i think we can conclude that your age will not pervent you from becoming an sc2 celeb
The talent pool for SC2 is so abysmally small and the players so relatively mediocre to what the world has to offer that players will be able to excel at advanced ages. If the talent pool was remotely as large as Basketball, Soccer, Football, baseball, etc I believe you'd see the domination of younger players and the slow regression of those past their 30's-- the same with all sports.
Unlike Chess, which is solely a cerebral game (you could make your moves with your feet if you wanted to), SC2 requires a remarkable amount of reaction time and coordination. It is proven that both of these decline with age. The shelf life for a SC2 pro gamer will definitely be longer than other sports, but do you honestly think a 50 year old could play this game at a pro level? Hell, the oldest people in our community are in their early 30's-- and white ra, boxer, and nestea aren't currently known for their insane mechanics and micro, but their decision making.
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Hard to say if there is age limit and such .....
Some things to keep in mind thou :
As gaming culture ( multi player over the net ) ... really didn't get great until around 97-98 ( rough guess ) ... so basically almost taking generation x'ers ( kids born 1964-81 ...... making them 30 to 47 years old today ) almost out of the equation , since by the time competivie culture started many were going of with other things in life ( except for those late 70's and early 80's ) ..... as people get older other stuff occupy their lives .... work ( gotta pay those dam bills ) , family ( wife or children ) ... and so on .... all the mentioned can provide stress ( which really makes your game play suck ... I know ) ... also time to practice and get better at the game is really limited with additional responsiblities in life ( which is huge )
Time will tell as the later generations ( that grew up around gaming culture ) get older and see how competitive they stay ....
I personally don't think that mid 20's is not the limit ..... white ra , boxer and nestea are currently proving that limit is fualty
Just a thought  .... great topic
Guardian
Side Note : I am 39 ... high plat player .... basically only play with one hand .... imigine what I can do with 2 good hands and time to play more
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I figure a lot of old people these days suck at video games because they have crystalline memory with no association to anything like video games and little fluid memory.
As we, the gaming generation, get older though, I feel that the primary concern should be hand speed, something that could be easily resolved through something as simple as changing your playstyle. I would argue that the gaming generation would not experience a significant loss in effectiveness overall provided we play slower playstyles, due to the fact that we would have played games for decades, bringing mountains of experience for us to utilize.
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On January 03 2012 09:44 xrapture wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 09:30 Kaien wrote:
Nestea is 29
BoxeR is 32
Nada is 27
July is 25
Whitera is 31
Im only 20, so i cant tell from personal exeperiance, but when we look at the age of some pro players. i think we can conclude that your age will not pervent you from becoming an sc2 celeb The talent pool for SC2 is so abysmally small and the players so relatively mediocre to what the world has to offer that players will be able to excel at advanced ages. If the talent pool was remotely as large as Basketball, Soccer, Football, baseball, etc I believe you'd see the domination of younger players and the slow regression of those past their 30's-- the same with all sports. Unlike Chess, which is solely a cerebral game (you could make your moves with your feet if you wanted to), SC2 requires a remarkable amount of reaction time and coordination. It is proven that both of these decline with age. The shelf life for a SC2 pro gamer will definitely be longer than other sports, but do you honestly think a 50 year old could play this game at a pro level? Hell, the oldest people in our community are in their early 30's-- and white ra, boxer, and nestea aren't currently known for their insane mechanics and micro, but their decision making.
A big factor in MLB, NFL, and NHL is injuries and the accumulation of their damage. RSI is probably a large contributor in people "losing a step" in their micro rather than age. It seems like players like BoxeR and Nestea are absolutely godly when it comes to the cognitive side of the game. BoxeR definitely lacks the speed he once has, which I'm sure is part age thing, but he also has RSI as far as I know and I would think that has more an impact on his ability to play as compared to the fact that he's 32.
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The simple reason pro's go past their prime as they get later into their 20's in starcraft is because of two things mainly: 1. decreased motivation 2. increased competition. in regards to nr.2; by increased competition i mean that the amount of talent possessed by the younger generation at the top is higher, the older generation might have been the best out of a hundred thousand gamers while the younger generation is the best out of a million (numbers picked out of thin air just as an example, obviously)
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You options are actually incorrect.
I'm 40 years old, still play SC2. The cognitive part of the game is so easy for me. It's getting my fingers and hands to move fast enough to keep up that is the problem. I have early arthritis in my finger joints and it makes a big difference. Cognitive is not an issue.
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I will be 30 next year, I do not feel that my mechanics or multitasking has gone down, rather it is the other way around. I take more into consideration and although I do not know for sure, it feels as if I can take in the game on a whole other level than when I played Brood War many years ago. It could also be because I am experienced with RTS since Dune II that the skill and decision making is much better now than when I was younger and that it is because of this that it is easier to play. My APM right now is around 90-100, not great, but I can take on most Master and GM players in regards to multitasking and getting things done without embarrassing myself.
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im 20 and im feeling ancient -.-
too bad sc2 wasnt released when i was in highschool
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it might be due to the fact that younger generations are bought up in the gaming industry, and they have a lot of spare time to practice, plus the fact that their brains are more active/prime or at least equal to an older brain. Physically it is quite impossible to have problems pressing keys fast. A lot of other factors like work and other things also have an impact.
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EPT
