EPTTLPD Winrate Charts: December - Page 12
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Sphen5117
United States413 Posts
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
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Keylime
United States33 Posts
On January 02 2012 20:42 Kenshi235 wrote: Can't wait for another terran nerf. TvP gets harder and harder every day for T for non GM/top masters players, but b/c Pros are getting it done we gonna get nerfed more. Additionally I get bm'ed by every P at start assuming I'm going to cheese or 111 when I don't. I guess I should join the crowd if I'm already being blamed right? Unfortunately : (. I think I'm going to keep to 1 rax FE'ing every game and staying at a 30% win rate as i get rofl stomped by mid/late game P comps. Really hope they don't nerf T more (not asking for a P nerf either.) Either way, stats are looking better and better with each passing month : ) | ||
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imEnex
Canada500 Posts
Blizzard needs to take action for this matchup. Seriously , terran's 1-base all-ins are impossible. | ||
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xrapture
United States1644 Posts
On January 04 2012 02:06 Sphen5117 wrote: What a suprise, after stupid balance changes in a patch that did nothing to fix the actual problems in PvT, Terran dominate even more? November gave protoss a bit of luck becuase of the fact that pretty much all GSL protoss had to play baller and go straight down two tier 3 tech paths at once or rush double forge in order to counter...MMM... Now it seems terran all had an epiphany of "oh, if I play like that to it'll be roflcakes ezpz." lmao why are you taking this so personally? Does such a small % difference at the PRO level really affect your play in whatever league you're in? You say Terran's are dominating but I honestly can't remember the last time a foreign Terran won a major live tournament. They are doing well in the GSL, yes, but is that fact honestly enough to make you act like a drama queen? calm down man lmao, it's a video game. | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On January 04 2012 13:12 imEnex wrote: Wow, the PvT is horrible. Blizzard needs to take action for this matchup. Seriously , terran's 1-base all-ins are impossible. All they have to do is give faster WG back. 4 gate stopped that for the most part. Not as good as 3 gate VR did but VR only does 25 DPS now instead of 41 when MC was wining everything. Anyway, that WG change which people/blizz said would stop PvP 4 gate and didnt but did make P more vulnerable early game one base all ins AND took away a harassment option. | ||
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kofman
Andorra698 Posts
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SpinmovE
Canada119 Posts
On January 04 2012 00:51 Tyrant0 wrote: To be honest witnessing how imbalanced a unit can be, for example early beta roaches is a much better indicator than statistics. A huge disparity in winrate still requires you to find the cause of the imbalance either way. Not that statistics aren't useful, but the entire matter of balance is completely subjective. Even when accounting for statistics. The fuck. You can't game the system to get into GM. How the fuck are people still making this retarded comment. You can't game the system to get into GM? Then explain the players that were GM in season 2, played one game in season 3, zero games in season 4, lost one game this season and were placed into GM. Are you honestly saying that it makes sense for such a player to be in GM? Perhaps they were once good enough to deserve being in GM but after 3 seasons of inactivity it doesn't make any sense for them to still be able to get placed into GM over active players. | ||
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GTPGlitch
5061 Posts
On January 04 2012 13:12 imEnex wrote: Wow, the PvT is horrible. Blizzard needs to take action for this matchup. Seriously , terran's 1-base all-ins are impossible. Wow, the PvT is horrible. Blizzard needs to take action for this matchup. Seriously, terran shouldn't have to 1-base all-in to win. | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On January 04 2012 13:50 Active.815 wrote: Wow, the PvT is horrible. Blizzard needs to take action for this matchup. Seriously, terran shouldn't have to 1-base all-in to win. I agree with both statements >< -Reduce Marine HP by 5 (takes the tankiness away from a unit that should have never been tanky to begin with, shouldn't affect defense as bunkers exist for that purpose) -Remove 250mm Cannon (since it's useless) -Remove Thor energy bar (since all it does is makes HTs counter Thors) *Now Thors are a viable "generalist unit" in TvP mech style and we might even see them used in bio balls to break FFs (yeah, I know, I'm dreaming) -Increase Siege Tank Siege damage vs armored to 60 -Do whatever else needs to be done to make mech viable (I don't think that would be much from this point honestly) Yey TvP is fixed!! | ||
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xrapture
United States1644 Posts
On January 04 2012 13:57 Jermstuddog wrote: I agree with both statements >< -Reduce Marine HP by 5 (takes the tankiness away from a unit that should have never been tanky to begin with, shouldn't affect defense as bunkers exist for that purpose) -Remove 250mm Cannon (since it's useless) -Remove Thor energy bar (since all it does is makes HTs counter Thors) *Now Thors are a viable "generalist unit" in TvP mech style and we might even see them used in bio balls to break FFs (yeah, I know, I'm dreaming) -Increase Siege Tank Siege damage vs armored to 60 -Do whatever else needs to be done to make mech viable (I don't think that would be much from this point honestly) Yey TvP is fixed!! Late games Marines are worthless. You even see players like Bomber and Major killing their marines because they serve no purpose other than being evaporated by storms and collosi, I have no idea why you are calling them 'tanky.' A guardian shielded zealot taking 1 damage from a marine is pretty tanky imo. Mech is no where near being viable. Even with an insane army advantage an entire mech army can die to chargelots and immortals. The thor energy removal is needed, no doubt, but helions don't really counter chargelots late game and die instantly. Once chargelots get to your tanks you just kill your own units with friendly fire and immortals tank damage and dish it out unparalleled. Major, Gretorp, and Jinro have said mech is straight up terrible vs toss, I don't think mech is 'close' to being viable, like you said. I share sentiments with many people above me. As the race with the highest skillcap, Terran will always do well in Korea. Look outside of Korea and they don't do nearly as well, and look at Diamond and masters and Terrans are crying. In a late game battle Terran will require more micro and APM than a protoss, not a knock on them it's just the nature of the race. So a player with diamond level mechanics will have a rather hard time defeating a toss player with the same mechanics. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 05 2012 14:06 xrapture wrote: Late games Marines are worthless. You even see players like Bomber and Major killing their marines because they serve no purpose other than being evaporated by storms and collosi, I have no idea why you are calling them 'tanky.' A guardian shielded zealot taking 1 damage from a marine is pretty tanky imo. Mech is no where near being viable. Even with an insane army advantage an entire mech army can die to chargelots and immortals. The thor energy removal is needed, no doubt, but helions don't really counter chargelots late game and die instantly. Once chargelots get to your tanks you just kill your own units with friendly fire and immortals tank damage and dish it out unparalleled. Major, Gretorp, and Jinro have said mech is straight up terrible vs toss, I don't think mech is 'close' to being viable, like you said. I share sentiments with many people above me. As the race with the highest skillcap, Terran will always do well in Korea. Look outside of Korea and they don't do nearly as well, and look at Diamond and masters and Terrans are crying. In a late game battle Terran will require more micro and APM than a protoss, not a knock on them it's just the nature of the race. So a player with diamond level mechanics will have a rather hard time defeating a toss player with the same mechanics. -) terran does not require more apm... no matter what level you play. at least there are no stats and the whole myth comes from whiners that exist in every race. (if you dont inject/forcefield/blink/stutter step/muta harass/drop... like a pro...) -) all races have skillcaps that are not reachable by humans. not in the slightest. therefore argumenting based on skillcaps makes no sense to begin with. -) if you split the discussion in pro and nonpro you cant say that mech isnt viable in TvP. at least up to diamond mech is very very viable and if you thonk apm spamming... sry i meant stutter stepping is too hard for you, then you should be in a league in which mech is a good style. -) if terrans outside of korea did as well as in korea, then you would be glad about those little nerfs like emp range and.that blizzard did not remove the marine and the tank at all. | ||
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DawN883
Sweden558 Posts
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Olsson
Sweden931 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Early game is hard for Protoss, because of all the weird shenaningans Terran can do. Drops are hard too. But generally, warping in 15 chargelots in the middle of a large battle is quite nice, and in mid-late game, so is tech switches - the Protoss just has to be clever enough to make the switches, Terran has to anticipate and respond to them. I think Terran definitely has the tools to deal with Protoss, which is why they do so well at the highest levels; ghosts, vikings, and excellent stutter-step are really pretty damn good counters to the Protoss army. It just all has to be done very well, with a very high skill cap. This seems to contrast to PvZ, where Zerg shit their pants between 8-12 minutes, trying to work out and respond to the large variety of very strong 2 base attacks/all-ins that Protoss can do. But beyond that in a longer macro game, Protoss has to work very very hard to keep up with the Zerg (it is possible, as in TvP, but hard). | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 05 2012 22:44 marvellosity wrote: Big J - from a low masters perspective as a Protoss, I would say mid-late game requirements on Terran are higher than Protoss. Early game is hard for Protoss, because of all the weird shenaningans Terran can do. Drops are hard too. But generally, warping in 15 chargelots in the middle of a large battle is quite nice, and in mid-late game, so is tech switches - the Protoss just has to be clever enough to make the switches, Terran has to anticipate and respond to them. I think Terran definitely has the tools to deal with Protoss, which is why they do so well at the highest levels; ghosts, vikings, and excellent stutter-step are really pretty damn good counters to the Protoss army. It just all has to be done very well, with a very high skill cap. This seems to contrast to PvZ, where Zerg shit their pants between 8-12 minutes, trying to work out and respond to the large variety of very strong 2 base attacks/all-ins that Protoss can do. But beyond that in a longer macro game, Protoss has to work very very hard to keep up with the Zerg (it is possible, as in TvP, but hard). well, maybe it's just my own perspective but as mid- high masters zerg player I always got the feeling that (whenever I was offracing with terran) I could just bang my head against the keyboard and whatever composition came out worked as long as I was spamming enough apm, while as protoss I usually had the feeling that whenever I did not engage with the proper composition (and therefore played right for all of the game, not just in battles) I was dead to begin with in TvP. (to put things into perspective, i could beat master/high diamond players of all races with terran, but started to have trouble with protoss in macro games somewhere around mid diamond) so in conclusion I would say that this sort of X is harder than Y is just a question of the player and what they have trouble with and can by no means be generalized. | ||
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Recognizable
Netherlands1552 Posts
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SniXSniPe
United States1938 Posts
On January 04 2012 13:33 kofman wrote: Its funny how Terran remains the race with the best winrate even though its been nerfed the most in every patch since the game came out. It could be... just maybe... that Terran players are better? You can't have 50% balance all across the board. When will people realize talent/skill is not equally distributed? Not saying this is true to this situation, but just saying that a 50% winrate does not necessarily mean everything is fine and dandy. | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
On January 06 2012 04:39 SniXSniPe wrote: It could be... just maybe... that Terran players are better? You can't have 50% balance all across the board. When will people realize talent/skill is not equally distributed? Not saying this is true to this situation, but just saying that a 50% winrate does not necessarily mean everything is fine and dandy. If anything, it indicates that the race has way more potential than is being used right now, and that patches force terrans to explore those options and refine their play. | ||
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Lunit
United States183 Posts
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