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Q & A With David Kim - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
345 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 16 17 18 Next All
soulking
Profile Joined December 2011
United States10 Posts
December 16 2011 04:57 GMT
#81
EMP should not be in the game at all...its crazy how fast my 100 food army can get crushed from 4 emp's...if Protoss and Terran are on the same mining rate then protoss cannot rebuild the army to deal with 4 emp's to the face.

EMP is way too good.
Mortal
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
2943 Posts
December 16 2011 04:59 GMT
#82
Well this will surely be a balance whine thread (already is) and people will bash DK. Nothing new here, and no interesting information/anything useful. Wait for HOTS for anything, yep, we've heard.
The universe created an audience for itself.
TSCrEaToR-
Profile Joined November 2011
United States13 Posts
December 16 2011 04:59 GMT
#83
IMO, if the emp radius is larger, then the temps need khydarian. It's because the ghost is already very effective, doing a considerable amount of damage to small units. Templar doesn't have a firsthand attack. The last thing we want is a 125/200 Terran army crushing a 200/200 toss army because of two cloaked ghosts.

The one unit that might need nerf is marauder because in the TZ vs TP combo, TZ can rush the protoss all too easily, most well demonstrated by the Kas/Aristeo of Empire. Protoss cant do anything, because the slow will kite the zealot all day, and if terran moves out, there are plenty of lings waiting outside.

Injects are pretty okay, because Zerg has ability to make 3 hatches when their army is maxed, inject time to time, and then when the engage comes, they max out back on lings or something like that in about 3 seconds.
+ Show Spoiler +
Im not a protoss player, just saying if my words reflected that
Flash Jaedong Bisu .::|::. NesTea MMA HerO .::|::. Stephano ThorZaIN MaNa
Dingobloo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1903 Posts
December 16 2011 05:02 GMT
#84
On December 16 2011 13:55 Energizer wrote:
Does anyone else cringe when he says "We didn't like how.." for some of the answers? Seems to me they have this set logic about how the game is supposed to be played and everyone is wrong if they deviate from that...


They have to have some goal for how the game should play out or it would be a mess, and KA and one EMP ending the game were a mess. There is a middle ground between them dictating every moment of the game, and fixing broken abilities and units, largely because they work towards the same goal. If something is too strong it makes it feel like it's the only way to play rather than one of many viable options.
VirgilSC2
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States6151 Posts
December 16 2011 05:05 GMT
#85
On December 16 2011 13:59 TSCrEaToR- wrote:
IMO, if the emp radius is larger, then the temps need khydarian. It's because the ghost is already very effective, doing a considerable amount of damage to small units. Templar doesn't have a firsthand attack. The last thing we want is a 125/200 Terran army crushing a 200/200 toss army because of two cloaked ghosts.

The one unit that might need nerf is marauder because in the TZ vs TP combo, TZ can rush the protoss all too easily, most well demonstrated by the Kas/Aristeo of Empire. Protoss cant do anything, because the slow will kite the zealot all day, and if terran moves out, there are plenty of lings waiting outside.

Injects are pretty okay, because Zerg has ability to make 3 hatches when their army is maxed, inject time to time, and then when the engage comes, they max out back on lings or something like that in about 3 seconds.
+ Show Spoiler +
Im not a protoss player, just saying if my words reflected that

The game is not, and will never be, balanced around 2v2. If we reach a time where that is true, Starcraft will no longer be fit to be seen as an ESPORT for 1v1.

I don't think the majority of Terran players realize that the EMP Radius is now identical to that of Psi Storm, perhaps there needs to be a PSA about it or something.
Clarity Gaming #1 Fan | Avid MTG Grinder | @VirgilSC2
Kharnage
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia920 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-16 05:08:00
December 16 2011 05:05 GMT
#86
On December 16 2011 13:55 Energizer wrote:
Does anyone else cringe when he says "We didn't like how.." for some of the answers? Seems to me they have this set logic about how the game is supposed to be played and everyone is wrong if they deviate from that...


He didn't say 'We didn't like' once. The closest he got was 'We don’t like making changes unless they’re necessary' in the Terran stop nerfing us section.

In every other instance he actually said 'We like ... '

Seems to me you need to re-read it

And I hope to hell that have some 'logic' of how they want the game to played. Otherwise they are just making random changes and crossing their fingers that it works.

As he stated 'We also like to see this kind of feedback, because making games easy to learn but difficult to master is one of Blizzard’s core game design philosophies.'
That is part of their 'logic' as to how the game 'should' be balanced and played.
Raambo11
Profile Joined April 2011
United States828 Posts
December 16 2011 05:06 GMT
#87
On December 16 2011 13:59 TSCrEaToR- wrote:
IMO, if the emp radius is larger, then the temps need khydarian. It's because the ghost is already very effective, doing a considerable amount of damage to small units. Templar doesn't have a firsthand attack. The last thing we want is a 125/200 Terran army crushing a 200/200 toss army because of two cloaked ghosts.

The one unit that might need nerf is marauder because in the TZ vs TP combo, TZ can rush the protoss all too easily, most well demonstrated by the Kas/Aristeo of Empire. Protoss cant do anything, because the slow will kite the zealot all day, and if terran moves out, there are plenty of lings waiting outside.

Injects are pretty okay, because Zerg has ability to make 3 hatches when their army is maxed, inject time to time, and then when the engage comes, they max out back on lings or something like that in about 3 seconds.
+ Show Spoiler +
Im not a protoss player, just saying if my words reflected that


I have lost significantly more games to a 125 army vs my 200 army from getting stormed twice, then I have won ( dont think I have ever won) a with a 125 army emping a 200 army, this is flat ridiculous. As usual I don't want to bash him but DK's answers are extremely lackluster to say the least, not that this is anything knew. I wish they had more people on the balance team so their could be more opinions on what needs to be changed, because blizzard always seems to be behind the metagame.

The only thing I liked was that they take input from GSL players although this is nothing new I believe.
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-16 05:08:51
December 16 2011 05:07 GMT
#88
On December 16 2011 13:52 Ghola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 13:38 avilo wrote:
On December 16 2011 12:29 Dingobloo wrote:
Some additional info from the community manager too:


VTavilo said:

Very disappointed that there is zero points here addressing mech TvP, as well as lategame TvP in general.

You would think one of the lead and influential balance designers would have mentioned these things or pick up that the community is talking about them a lot.

TvP is in protoss favor, and mech was nerfed into the ground by blizzard themselves. They still are not addressing this and fixing it?

Even the statistics agree with player input right now, TvP flip flopped from 55% in Terrans favor to 55% in Protosses favor.

They obviously made a mistake in the last palance patch and it needs to be addressed.


Daxxarri said:

@VTavilo: These were concerns that were brought up by pro-players at G-Star, which occurred just as 1.4.2 was being applied. These weren't questions selected at random; they specifically reflect the feedback David received there.

I think it's worth mentioning that, at the time that the event was occurring, the match up heavily favored terran. Also, our numbers do not reflect the flip flop that you've cited.



Lol avilo.



Why is it "lol" that I brought up the mech TvP issue? And lategame TvP issues? If no other Terran is going to step up to the plate, I will say what needs to be said and some concerns like I did in that post.



It would be pretty hard to make mech viable without significantly altering the fundamentals of each race. you make mech stronger and suddenly the 111 is completely broken, unless you make Protoss gateway units beefy like they were in brood war. But then that would fuck up zerg because suddenly the 4gate and any other early game rush becomes unstoppable.

I agree though, mech TvP was awesome in Brood War.


Not really, because there are indirect ways to buffing mech tvp without affecting unit interactions, such as decreasing armory price to 150/50, as well as reducing cost of mech level 2 and 3 upgrades (similar to what they did for Protoss upgrades). And while yes, a type of change like that would help mech out in the other match-ups as well, the question is to blizzard from players that want mech to be viable: what is so wrong with mech becoming a viable strategy? Why are they so against tanks being usable in TvP in the fashion that they are in brood war, which produced exciting positional games?

There are other things they can do that do include unit changes again, such as thors energy and such, but yes I agree those would probably impact unit interactions way too much.

But as of now, it's difficult to even say they are even looking at what they've done to mech tvp...
Sup
yeastiality
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada374 Posts
December 16 2011 05:07 GMT
#89
I liked seeing him mention that unit production is harder for protoss and terran than for zerg. Every time I hear someone talk about how zerg is a macro race and 'macro is hard', they follow it up with some cry about how they struggle with injects. Then I look at people managing factories, barracks and starports and I'm really glad I play zerg. But I'm not gonna delude myself into thinking I've got it rough because I have to inject...
dhe95
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1213 Posts
December 16 2011 05:09 GMT
#90
if they're concerned about warp in templars, they should add amulet back but have a few second cooldown until you can use any spells. for example, amulet is back but a cooldown of 2 seconds so that you can't just warp in a templar and immediately storm
soulking
Profile Joined December 2011
United States10 Posts
December 16 2011 05:09 GMT
#91
when was the last time someone won GSL finals with protoss?
MVTaylor
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2893 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-16 05:14:20
December 16 2011 05:12 GMT
#92
On December 16 2011 13:59 TSCrEaToR- wrote:
IMO, if the emp radius is larger, then the temps need khydarian. It's because the ghost is already very effective, doing a considerable amount of damage to small units. Templar doesn't have a firsthand attack. The last thing we want is a 125/200 Terran army crushing a 200/200 toss army because of two cloaked ghosts.

The one unit that might need nerf is marauder because in the TZ vs TP combo, TZ can rush the protoss all too easily, most well demonstrated by the Kas/Aristeo of Empire. Protoss cant do anything, because the slow will kite the zealot all day, and if terran moves out, there are plenty of lings waiting outside.

Injects are pretty okay, because Zerg has ability to make 3 hatches when their army is maxed, inject time to time, and then when the engage comes, they max out back on lings or something like that in about 3 seconds.
+ Show Spoiler +
Im not a protoss player, just saying if my words reflected that


... Seriously?

A Terran army that is 75 supply down on a Protoss army can win due to four EMPs or twelve snipes?

The game needs balancing around 2v2 due to an early game TZ v TP "imbalance"?

Getting back to the interview if would have been interesting what to know what they are actually going to do in some concrete form on at least one thing, rather than just knowing they are looking at things...
@followMVT
SetStndbySmn
Profile Joined August 2010
United States657 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-16 05:39:50
December 16 2011 05:19 GMT
#93
He managed to type up that whole thing without stating anything they haven't before. Basically just "we like feedback"/"we're cautious with changes"/"we made a change because we thought something needed to be changed" (how enlightening) / "patches = small changes, expansions = big changes". While it's nice to actually hear from them, there isn't a single new piece of information there.
"He doesn't operate under some divine shroud that lets him determine what is or is not valid culture. He cannot rob you, retroactively, of wholly valid experiences; he cannot transform them into worthless things." - Tycho
seedfreedom
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada38 Posts
December 16 2011 05:22 GMT
#94
EMP radius nerf too severe? EMP still completely devastates a protoss army without counter. range was never the issue and nerfing it didnt make it any less overpowered against protoss
ATLzac
Profile Joined February 2011
United States51 Posts
December 16 2011 05:25 GMT
#95
LOL too many noob complaints. I feel bad for blizzard having to listen to this shit
Peace.
Kharnage
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia920 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-16 05:31:16
December 16 2011 05:28 GMT
#96
On December 16 2011 14:25 ATLzac wrote:
LOL too many noob complaints. I feel bad for blizzard having to listen to this shit


Like Idra said re: the PPSN thing. It's most entertaining if you just believe everything you read.

That dude had a 200 supply army and lost to a 125 supply army cause of 2 storms OMFG! He must have stimmed twice and run back and forth in the storm to get it to hit his entire army. That shit takes skill man!

HT scouted! Quick, hold position!! I'm picturing him spamming the H and T on his marines. HOLD STILL FASTER!!
That's it! that's what HT means! Hold and Stim!
Klyberess
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden345 Posts
December 16 2011 05:31 GMT
#97
If they nerf mules because their shitty rock-covered gold bases are imbalanced, I'm going to rage so hard.
EmpireHappy <3 STHack <3 ByunPrime
Mauldo
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States750 Posts
December 16 2011 05:31 GMT
#98
There is no way top GSL competitors made those complaints. Spawn Larvae too hard to manage? Really? Most of those questions seem more like they were pulled from the Battle.net forums or the dregs of the Strategy Forum.

Good answers from Kim though. And I agree, game balance is basically there. That's why I'm not too worried about Heart of the Swarm. They have a really solid base to build on.
SCM.geauxsu
Profile Joined September 2011
United States56 Posts
December 16 2011 05:34 GMT
#99
Solution for inject difficulties? Build another Hatch brooooooooo
wat
Raambo11
Profile Joined April 2011
United States828 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-16 06:17:21
December 16 2011 05:40 GMT
#100
On December 16 2011 14:28 Kharnage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 14:25 ATLzac wrote:
LOL too many noob complaints. I feel bad for blizzard having to listen to this shit


Like Idra said re: the PPSN thing. It's most entertaining if you just believe everything you read.

That dude had a 200 supply army and lost to a 125 supply army cause of 2 storms OMFG! He must have stimmed twice and run back and forth in the storm to get it to hit his entire army. That shit takes skill man!

HT scouted! Quick, hold position!! I'm picturing him spamming the H and T on his marines. HOLD STILL FASTER!!
That's it! that's what HT means! Hold and Stim!


Some of these comments are so rediculous you gota wonder if people have actually played sc2 or just watch GSL and listen to SOTG. 2 storms kills all your marines if you move out right away, and pure maraduers suck vs zealots. You have probably never played terran though so I won't bother saying more.

Anyways its interesting that david kim seems to care a lot about GSL balance, but I think he has somewhat of the right idea. The problem is is that I don't think he takes into accounts that the GSL is a remarkably small pool of players, and even though they are the best as a group, some players are significantly just better than others, but to the average plat/gold or low league player it may look like the race they play is imbalanced. I have seen so many comments about "this is OP" after a player wins, even though one player is clearly better.

If you are a bronze and you go play a masters you will get completely owned no matter what the MU is.
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