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On December 19 2011 03:21 Zergrusher wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 13:21 Rinrun wrote:
KA upgrade causes the warp in time for HTs to increase by 10 seconds... causes WG (that warped it) cooldown to increase by 5 seconds. Also flashing floating text outlining that "IT'S A HIGH TEMPLAR, WATCH OUT FOR STORMS"
Haha. I really want to see snipe get a nerf though... it's painful watching TvZ nowadays. yh snipe is very strong, it also ignores armor and costs only 25 energy, for a range 10 45 damage no cool down shot it should jsut cost 50 energy also i would love to see ultralisk have a movement speed of 3 and hydralisk have 6 range, and grooved spine removed also mules should jsut have a cooldown( since beta people have said this) BTW on regular patches workers bring back 5 minerals per trip on gold they bring 10 per trip mules on regular minerals bring back 42 minerals on gold bases they bring in double that( and THATS why its an issue) just saying -_-
Actually gold patches only give 7 per trip for workers.
MULEs only mine 30 per trip on regular patch and 42 on gold.
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On December 16 2011 13:57 soulking wrote:
EMP should not be in the game at all...its crazy how fast my 100 food army can get crushed from 4 emp's...if Protoss and Terran are on the same mining rate then protoss cannot rebuild the army to deal with 4 emp's to the face.
EMP is way too good.
At higher levels EMP does little vs a protoss that doesn't ball up.
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On December 16 2011 14:09 soulking wrote:
when was the last time someone won GSL finals with protoss?
Tournaments have no correlation to actual game, "Balance".
Remember those MLGs where GSL winners got stomped by non-gsl winners? (huk, idra, whitera etc)
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On December 20 2011 01:14 cydial wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 13:57 soulking wrote:
EMP should not be in the game at all...its crazy how fast my 100 food army can get crushed from 4 emp's...if Protoss and Terran are on the same mining rate then protoss cannot rebuild the army to deal with 4 emp's to the face.
EMP is way too good. At higher levels EMP does little vs a protoss that doesn't ball up.
I watch the "highest levels" all the time, and they bunch up...literally...every single game. I have yet to see a Toss actively keep his army split up enough so that EMP was ineffective. Sure, they're getting a little better, but I still see 4 EMPs taking out the shields + energy of every single unit in the Toss's army in almost every TvP where the T gets ghosts.
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On December 16 2011 18:42 laguu wrote:
Just reduce marine damage from 6 -> 5 and you have the game fixed. They are simply too high dps. Sure, you can hard counter them with colossus etc but hard counters dont make a good game.
This would just completely destroy what little Terran had to hold off early immortal pressure from protoss.
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On December 20 2011 01:25 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 01:14 cydial wrote:On December 16 2011 13:57 soulking wrote:
EMP should not be in the game at all...its crazy how fast my 100 food army can get crushed from 4 emp's...if Protoss and Terran are on the same mining rate then protoss cannot rebuild the army to deal with 4 emp's to the face.
EMP is way too good. At higher levels EMP does little vs a protoss that doesn't ball up. I watch the "highest levels" all the time, and they bunch up...literally...every single game. I have yet to see a Toss actively keep his army split up enough so that EMP was ineffective. Sure, they're getting a little better, but I still see 4 EMPs taking out the shields + energy of every single unit in the Toss's army in almost every TvP where the T gets ghosts.
When a swarm of mass chargelots and archons are rushing you, not even mass emp is very effective against it unless the Terran army is already significantly larger.
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On December 20 2011 01:31 cydial wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 18:42 laguu wrote:
Just reduce marine damage from 6 -> 5 and you have the game fixed. They are simply too high dps. Sure, you can hard counter them with colossus etc but hard counters dont make a good game. This would just completely destroy what little Terran had to hold off early immortal pressure from protoss.
Remove the arbitrary "forced in" hardened shields and make Immos a bit beefier in genera?
Suddenly Tanks could do something in PvT but still don't dominate it due to Zealots with Charge/Speed?
But thats just a wild idea.
Even better Idea:
Remove Colossus and Immortal and add actually fun units to the Robo... Not a super-dragoon and the epitome of "I HAS TO CREATE BALL!"...
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On December 20 2011 01:33 cydial wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 01:25 Sm3agol wrote:On December 20 2011 01:14 cydial wrote:On December 16 2011 13:57 soulking wrote:
EMP should not be in the game at all...its crazy how fast my 100 food army can get crushed from 4 emp's...if Protoss and Terran are on the same mining rate then protoss cannot rebuild the army to deal with 4 emp's to the face.
EMP is way too good. At higher levels EMP does little vs a protoss that doesn't ball up. I watch the "highest levels" all the time, and they bunch up...literally...every single game. I have yet to see a Toss actively keep his army split up enough so that EMP was ineffective. Sure, they're getting a little better, but I still see 4 EMPs taking out the shields + energy of every single unit in the Toss's army in almost every TvP where the T gets ghosts. When a swarm of mass chargelots and archons are rushing you, not even mass emp is very effective against it unless the Terran army is already significantly larger.
That's a cop-out rofl.
When a swarm of stimmed terran army is rushing you, only shields can be make it even unless the Protoss army is already significantly larger.
See, I can do it too.
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On December 16 2011 20:56 trinxified wrote:Too bad we won't see Khaydarin Amulet again.  Anyway, in regards to PvT... Despite all the nerfs from both races in this respective matchup, the one thing that's still a problem is Marauders. Very cost effective to almost anything Protoss can throw except Immortals. Sometimes, even Immortals aren't enough either.
This thread made my brain hurt, but this just officially gave me a mind headache.
Cost effective against anything protoss has? Have you ever seen what happens when mass chargelot archon meets a bio ball?
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On December 19 2011 21:50 Garnet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 03:21 Zergrusher wrote:On December 16 2011 13:21 Rinrun wrote:
KA upgrade causes the warp in time for HTs to increase by 10 seconds... causes WG (that warped it) cooldown to increase by 5 seconds. Also flashing floating text outlining that "IT'S A HIGH TEMPLAR, WATCH OUT FOR STORMS"
Haha. I really want to see snipe get a nerf though... it's painful watching TvZ nowadays. yh snipe is very strong, it also ignores armor and costs only 25 energy, for a range 10 45 damage no cool down shot it should jsut cost 50 energy also i would love to see ultralisk have a movement speed of 3 and hydralisk have 6 range, and grooved spine removed also mules should jsut have a cooldown( since beta people have said this) BTW on regular patches workers bring back 5 minerals per trip on gold they bring 7 per trip mules on regular minerals bring back 42 minerals on gold bases they bring in double that( and THATS why its an issue) just saying -_- Actually gold patches only give 7 per trip for workers. MULEs only mine 30 per trip on regular patch and 42 on gold.
mules bring back 42 on regular and lol did i not say 7?
look for yourself
and did you not read the other stuff i said?
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On December 20 2011 01:36 StyLeD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 01:33 cydial wrote:On December 20 2011 01:25 Sm3agol wrote:On December 20 2011 01:14 cydial wrote:On December 16 2011 13:57 soulking wrote:
EMP should not be in the game at all...its crazy how fast my 100 food army can get crushed from 4 emp's...if Protoss and Terran are on the same mining rate then protoss cannot rebuild the army to deal with 4 emp's to the face.
EMP is way too good. At higher levels EMP does little vs a protoss that doesn't ball up. I watch the "highest levels" all the time, and they bunch up...literally...every single game. I have yet to see a Toss actively keep his army split up enough so that EMP was ineffective. Sure, they're getting a little better, but I still see 4 EMPs taking out the shields + energy of every single unit in the Toss's army in almost every TvP where the T gets ghosts. When a swarm of mass chargelots and archons are rushing you, not even mass emp is very effective against it unless the Terran army is already significantly larger. That's a cop-out rofl. When a swarm of stimmed terran army is rushing you, only shields can be make it even unless the Protoss army is already significantly larger. See, I can do it too.
.... Read what you just wrote very carefully.
So if the protoss army is significantly larger ff doesn't even matter right? Combine shields with a smaller army, then they still hold off. If it's shields + a larger army then it's just overkill.
With what I said emp would be still bad even if BOTH ARMIES ARE MAXED.
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On December 20 2011 01:46 Zergrusher wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 21:50 Garnet wrote:On December 19 2011 03:21 Zergrusher wrote:On December 16 2011 13:21 Rinrun wrote:
KA upgrade causes the warp in time for HTs to increase by 10 seconds... causes WG (that warped it) cooldown to increase by 5 seconds. Also flashing floating text outlining that "IT'S A HIGH TEMPLAR, WATCH OUT FOR STORMS"
Haha. I really want to see snipe get a nerf though... it's painful watching TvZ nowadays. yh snipe is very strong, it also ignores armor and costs only 25 energy, for a range 10 45 damage no cool down shot it should jsut cost 50 energy also i would love to see ultralisk have a movement speed of 3 and hydralisk have 6 range, and grooved spine removed also mules should jsut have a cooldown( since beta people have said this) BTW on regular patches workers bring back 5 minerals per trip on gold they bring 7 per trip mules on regular minerals bring back 42 minerals on gold bases they bring in double that( and THATS why its an issue) just saying -_- Actually gold patches only give 7 per trip for workers. MULEs only mine 30 per trip on regular patch and 42 on gold. mules bring back 42 on regular and lol did i not say 7? look for yourself and did you not read the other stuff i said?
When in doubt, Liquipedia !
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/MULE
"MULEs carry 6 times more minerals per trip than an SCV, gathering 30 minerals per trip on standard patches and 42 on High-Yield patches."
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On December 20 2011 02:18 FranzP wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 01:46 Zergrusher wrote:On December 19 2011 21:50 Garnet wrote:On December 19 2011 03:21 Zergrusher wrote:On December 16 2011 13:21 Rinrun wrote:
KA upgrade causes the warp in time for HTs to increase by 10 seconds... causes WG (that warped it) cooldown to increase by 5 seconds. Also flashing floating text outlining that "IT'S A HIGH TEMPLAR, WATCH OUT FOR STORMS"
Haha. I really want to see snipe get a nerf though... it's painful watching TvZ nowadays. yh snipe is very strong, it also ignores armor and costs only 25 energy, for a range 10 45 damage no cool down shot it should jsut cost 50 energy also i would love to see ultralisk have a movement speed of 3 and hydralisk have 6 range, and grooved spine removed also mules should jsut have a cooldown( since beta people have said this) BTW on regular patches workers bring back 5 minerals per trip on gold they bring 7 per trip mules on regular minerals bring back 42 minerals on gold bases they bring in double that( and THATS why its an issue) just saying -_- Actually gold patches only give 7 per trip for workers. MULEs only mine 30 per trip on regular patch and 42 on gold. mules bring back 42 on regular and lol did i not say 7? look for yourself and did you not read the other stuff i said? When in doubt, Liquipedia ! http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/MULE"MULEs carry 6 times more minerals per trip than an SCV, gathering 30 minerals per trip on standard patches and 42 on High-Yield patches."
why.......... thank you XD
that explains it
kk so realistically the mule need a cooldown
and the other ideas?
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On December 20 2011 02:18 FranzP wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 01:46 Zergrusher wrote:On December 19 2011 21:50 Garnet wrote:On December 19 2011 03:21 Zergrusher wrote:On December 16 2011 13:21 Rinrun wrote:
KA upgrade causes the warp in time for HTs to increase by 10 seconds... causes WG (that warped it) cooldown to increase by 5 seconds. Also flashing floating text outlining that "IT'S A HIGH TEMPLAR, WATCH OUT FOR STORMS"
Haha. I really want to see snipe get a nerf though... it's painful watching TvZ nowadays. yh snipe is very strong, it also ignores armor and costs only 25 energy, for a range 10 45 damage no cool down shot it should jsut cost 50 energy also i would love to see ultralisk have a movement speed of 3 and hydralisk have 6 range, and grooved spine removed also mules should jsut have a cooldown( since beta people have said this) BTW on regular patches workers bring back 5 minerals per trip on gold they bring 7 per trip mules on regular minerals bring back 42 minerals on gold bases they bring in double that( and THATS why its an issue) just saying -_- Actually gold patches only give 7 per trip for workers. MULEs only mine 30 per trip on regular patch and 42 on gold. mules bring back 42 on regular and lol did i not say 7? look for yourself and did you not read the other stuff i said? When in doubt, Liquipedia ! http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/MULE"MULEs carry 6 times more minerals per trip than an SCV, gathering 30 minerals per trip on standard patches and 42 on High-Yield patches."
lol nice you cut out the part where they need double mine time for it
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On December 20 2011 01:16 cydial wrote:
Remember those MLGs where GSL winners got stomped by non-gsl winners? (huk, idra, whitera etc)
Neither Huk, Idra nor Whitera ever "stomped", or even beat a GSL winner in MLG, unless you count Huk in a PvP. Using that "evidence" to say that "tournament results have no impact therefore Protoss is fine in Code S GSL" is ridiculous.
I'm not saying that Protoss is doing bad, just that your assertions here are ignorant.
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On December 20 2011 01:25 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 01:14 cydial wrote:On December 16 2011 13:57 soulking wrote:
EMP should not be in the game at all...its crazy how fast my 100 food army can get crushed from 4 emp's...if Protoss and Terran are on the same mining rate then protoss cannot rebuild the army to deal with 4 emp's to the face.
EMP is way too good. At higher levels EMP does little vs a protoss that doesn't ball up. I watch the "highest levels" all the time, and they bunch up...literally...every single game. I have yet to see a Toss actively keep his army split up enough so that EMP was ineffective. Sure, they're getting a little better, but I still see 4 EMPs taking out the shields + energy of every single unit in the Toss's army in almost every TvP where the T gets ghosts.
Protoss units love to clump up, because they all move at different speeds and acceleration rates. Units of like speed end up together. So HTs and senteries all get into a big group hug before the EMP hits. Pros try to limit this by splitting their army, but the instant a move or attack move command is issued, they all clump up again.
The other issue is that the protoss units want to be close together to be effective. If charglots are spead out to much, they get focused down faster by the auto targeting. By blobing them, they tank for eachother and the damage is more spead out. Plus, once charge is popped, the protoss player is at the mercy of the AI. Any attempt to micro the zealots will kill the charge and make them dumb slow.
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On December 16 2011 21:01 Hider wrote:
Lol funny to see statisctics. At highest lvl of play tvp is 45-55. And most likely the stats are even more toss favored at master league level. Hope blizzard soon comes up with an intelligent fix for tvp.
Terrans have been really lazy with TvP strats at highest level because they've had a very high win percentage for the past 1 year. You have been 1-1-1 ing and carpet EMP+ sniping your way to ez victories for the past 1 year. And now for just 1 month the balance is slightly reversed (55-45) in 1 patch and immediately Terran apologists start crawling out of the woodwork.
I would like to invoke the old TL saying of let the "metagame" develop. Because thats what you've been saying to protoss all these months.
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Did the David 'the newb' Kim forget that the Khaydarin Amulet from Brood War increased the starting energy from 50 to 62? In SC2 newbs like Browder and Kim made it to 75 which means instant storm.
50->62 is a meaningful upgrade, but it's not an "automatic decision" for spending 150/150 resources...
50-> 75 IS an automatic decision, it's simply too good.
Point is: bring back the Brood War Khaydarin Amulet..........
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Cooldown for mule would be golden, means you actually have to manage it like P and Z have to manage their macro functions, not just spam the hotkey on mineral patches when you remember your energy is probably maxed.
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EPT
