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Singapore147 Posts
On December 14 2011 10:08 U_G_L_Y wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 09:56 Talack wrote:On December 14 2011 09:51 redviper wrote:
Just as Naniwa had the absolute right to throw his game to Nestea (and lets not call it anything else) the viewers, the players, GOM staff and teams have the absolute right to diss him for it. He doesn't have to respect anyone, just play his game. We don't have to respect him at all. And honestly, who does now?
When he starts Code S, the other players will hopefully show their displeasure. The crowd will hopefully boo him. StarTale will hopefully shun him. I want these things not because I particularly hate Naniwa, but because I hate this dichotomy of treating e-sports like a serious sport and also treating e-sports like a non-serious non-professional video game. Not to say that I don't dislike Naniwa and his lack of a meaningful honest apology makes me like him less. But what can I do?
Yes he has the right to be disrespectful and clearly he has the capability to do so. But others have a right to react strongly to it also.
Well said. If people want esports to grow, then the people behind it have to be more professional like the koreans. This is why it works so well in Korea because it's treated with dignity and respect. All these people on here saying "who cares?" well you should. Sponsors don't want to get involved in something that is risky, if there is a chance that the Idra's(leaves games without trying at all meaning that we don't ever get to see exciting comebacks(which IMO is true-skill, that's why MVP is known as one of the best)) and the Naniwa's will not give them anything for them money and attract viewers/fans then why invest. Your precious GSL would cease to function if all players treated this like Naniwa has done and didn't respect the fact that companies are dumping lots of money into what is basicly a niche form of entertainment and is not-quite mainstream yet. In American Football, when the team that is ahead has the ball and there isn't enough time on the clock to call a delay of game penalty, the quarterback simply kneels down after the ball is snapped rather than try to score additional points. Jeez, someone should tell the NFL that they are going to cease to function any minute now! Lookout! Naniwa should respect the fact that there was no chance of him earning any money, and he should continue to try his best so that the GSL can make a profit off of him without paying him.... Wait, does that sound retarded to anyone else?
your example doesn't make sense. the NFL team still played the entire game up till the last few seconds. thats more like someone losing 90% of his workers and all his production and not bothering to micro his last two marines against 50 incoming zerglings. what naniwa did is the equivalent of a team knowing that they aren't going to make the playoffs and deciding to prance around naked for the remainder of their matches for the season
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United States516 Posts
On December 14 2011 10:03 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 09:57 Roxy wrote:
That article is garbage
It is a players choice as to what strategy he does.
If you give a reasonable reward for winning, they will try harder. If i told you that i would give you a kick in the nuts if you won a game, would you try your hardest to win it? no.. i doubt i
Naniwa, you have my full support!
That match meant nothing!!!
how is that any different that naniwa just being like "um, i dont really feel like scouting because im totally pissed off. Im just going to go blind FFE, into blind +2 blink stalkers. im not going to prepare for banelings or a roach all-in and we'll see how this goes.
it is also stupid that you can have a situation where a player with no chance to advance can affect the wins/losses of a person still playing for a seat. The tournament was flawed and this is not naniwa's fault.
Naniwa won no money for losing that game. He was not match fixing. No one said he was match fixing I don't know where that came from. Also he made no attempt to win. He agreed to play all the games. Naniwa agreed to it. He is the one at fault not the tournament. You agree to do something and you don't do it, that's being unprofessional. You can't just saying "I'm upset I'm just going to go home now" with a job. You do your job. Naniwa's job was to perform. He didn't do it. It's childish and unprofessional.
If I was told by my employer that I wasn't getting paid anymore, I would immediately walk out the door.
I find it VERY ironic that everyone seems to be defining a "professional" as someone that works for free.
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On December 14 2011 10:11 pigscanfly wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 10:08 U_G_L_Y wrote:On December 14 2011 09:56 Talack wrote:On December 14 2011 09:51 redviper wrote:
Just as Naniwa had the absolute right to throw his game to Nestea (and lets not call it anything else) the viewers, the players, GOM staff and teams have the absolute right to diss him for it. He doesn't have to respect anyone, just play his game. We don't have to respect him at all. And honestly, who does now?
When he starts Code S, the other players will hopefully show their displeasure. The crowd will hopefully boo him. StarTale will hopefully shun him. I want these things not because I particularly hate Naniwa, but because I hate this dichotomy of treating e-sports like a serious sport and also treating e-sports like a non-serious non-professional video game. Not to say that I don't dislike Naniwa and his lack of a meaningful honest apology makes me like him less. But what can I do?
Yes he has the right to be disrespectful and clearly he has the capability to do so. But others have a right to react strongly to it also.
Well said. If people want esports to grow, then the people behind it have to be more professional like the koreans. This is why it works so well in Korea because it's treated with dignity and respect. All these people on here saying "who cares?" well you should. Sponsors don't want to get involved in something that is risky, if there is a chance that the Idra's(leaves games without trying at all meaning that we don't ever get to see exciting comebacks(which IMO is true-skill, that's why MVP is known as one of the best)) and the Naniwa's will not give them anything for them money and attract viewers/fans then why invest. Your precious GSL would cease to function if all players treated this like Naniwa has done and didn't respect the fact that companies are dumping lots of money into what is basicly a niche form of entertainment and is not-quite mainstream yet. In American Football, when the team that is ahead has the ball and there isn't enough time on the clock to call a delay of game penalty, the quarterback simply kneels down after the ball is snapped rather than try to score additional points. Jeez, someone should tell the NFL that they are going to cease to function any minute now! Lookout! Naniwa should respect the fact that there was no chance of him earning any money, and he should continue to try his best so that the GSL can make a profit off of him without paying him.... Wait, does that sound retarded to anyone else? your example doesn't make sense. the NFL team still played the entire game up till the last few seconds. thats more like someone losing 90% of his workers and all his production and not bothering to micro his last two marines against 50 incoming zerglings. what naniwa did is the equivalent of a team knowing that they aren't going to make the playoffs and deciding to prance around naked for the remainder of their matches for the season
They do that in the NFL out of respect and not to throw their victory in the other teams face, plus it reduces the chance of injuries (very tiny) since they don't run a last few plays. What Naniwa did was not due to respecting his opponent  .
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On December 14 2011 10:03 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 09:57 Roxy wrote:
That article is garbage
It is a players choice as to what strategy he does.
If you give a reasonable reward for winning, they will try harder. If i told you that i would give you a kick in the nuts if you won a game, would you try your hardest to win it? no.. i doubt i
Naniwa, you have my full support!
That match meant nothing!!!
how is that any different that naniwa just being like "um, i dont really feel like scouting because im totally pissed off. Im just going to go blind FFE, into blind +2 blink stalkers. im not going to prepare for banelings or a roach all-in and we'll see how this goes.
it is also stupid that you can have a situation where a player with no chance to advance can affect the wins/losses of a person still playing for a seat. The tournament was flawed and this is not naniwa's fault.
Naniwa won no money for losing that game. He was not match fixing. No one said he was match fixing I don't know where that came from. Also he made no attempt to win. He agreed to play all the games. Naniwa agreed to it. He is the one at fault not the tournament. You agree to do something and you don't do it, that's being unprofessional. You can't just saying "I'm upset I'm just going to go home now" with a job. You do your job. Naniwa's job was to perform. He didn't do it. It's childish and unprofessional.
technically he did play the game. he performed his obligations..
how can you "make" someone try? how do you monitor if he was trying? should we all flame hero for probably not trying either? i mean obviously he just threw those games in order to go 0-4 too?
you dont see baseball players playing the 9th inning when they have already won? what is the point.. why should nani
i bought up match fixing because that would be a purposeful loss that i would not condone...
it absoultely is the tournaments fault. the purpose of a tournament it to determine who is the BEST player. not the worst. why were nestea and nani even playing? there was no point
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On December 14 2011 10:12 U_G_L_Y wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 10:03 Femari wrote:On December 14 2011 09:57 Roxy wrote:
That article is garbage
It is a players choice as to what strategy he does.
If you give a reasonable reward for winning, they will try harder. If i told you that i would give you a kick in the nuts if you won a game, would you try your hardest to win it? no.. i doubt i
Naniwa, you have my full support!
That match meant nothing!!!
how is that any different that naniwa just being like "um, i dont really feel like scouting because im totally pissed off. Im just going to go blind FFE, into blind +2 blink stalkers. im not going to prepare for banelings or a roach all-in and we'll see how this goes.
it is also stupid that you can have a situation where a player with no chance to advance can affect the wins/losses of a person still playing for a seat. The tournament was flawed and this is not naniwa's fault.
Naniwa won no money for losing that game. He was not match fixing. No one said he was match fixing I don't know where that came from. Also he made no attempt to win. He agreed to play all the games. Naniwa agreed to it. He is the one at fault not the tournament. You agree to do something and you don't do it, that's being unprofessional. You can't just saying "I'm upset I'm just going to go home now" with a job. You do your job. Naniwa's job was to perform. He didn't do it. It's childish and unprofessional. If I was told by my employer that I wasn't getting paid anymore, I would immediately walk out the door. I find it VERY ironic that everyone seems to be defining a "professional" as someone that works for free.
Except he was getting paid. He was getting $900 to play all 4 games. He agreed to play 4 games for $900 and based on results to possibly get more money.
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On December 14 2011 10:12 U_G_L_Y wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 10:03 Femari wrote:On December 14 2011 09:57 Roxy wrote:
That article is garbage
It is a players choice as to what strategy he does.
If you give a reasonable reward for winning, they will try harder. If i told you that i would give you a kick in the nuts if you won a game, would you try your hardest to win it? no.. i doubt i
Naniwa, you have my full support!
That match meant nothing!!!
how is that any different that naniwa just being like "um, i dont really feel like scouting because im totally pissed off. Im just going to go blind FFE, into blind +2 blink stalkers. im not going to prepare for banelings or a roach all-in and we'll see how this goes.
it is also stupid that you can have a situation where a player with no chance to advance can affect the wins/losses of a person still playing for a seat. The tournament was flawed and this is not naniwa's fault.
Naniwa won no money for losing that game. He was not match fixing. No one said he was match fixing I don't know where that came from. Also he made no attempt to win. He agreed to play all the games. Naniwa agreed to it. He is the one at fault not the tournament. You agree to do something and you don't do it, that's being unprofessional. You can't just saying "I'm upset I'm just going to go home now" with a job. You do your job. Naniwa's job was to perform. He didn't do it. It's childish and unprofessional. If I was told by my employer that I wasn't getting paid anymore, I would immediately walk out the door. I find it VERY ironic that everyone seems to be defining a "professional" as someone that works for free.
So, if you were working for commission, which is essentially what he's doing, you'd walk out? Sounds like you're the type of employee I'd fire before you had a chance to quit. Same goes for Naniwa. His job is more than to "win" tournies. He's a member of a team and represents sponsors 24/7. If he doesn't like that responsibility he shouldn't take it.
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How can people say '6 pool is the same as a worker rush'?
A 6 pool is a massive gamble that is unlikely to work, but still has a chance of success.
Taking your six probes at the start of the game and a-moving them into the enemy mineral line is throwing the game.
Naniwa needs to show some respect to the organization who keep inviting him to tournaments despite the fact he hasn't done anything of note in GSL as of yet.
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On December 14 2011 10:14 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 10:12 U_G_L_Y wrote:On December 14 2011 10:03 Femari wrote:On December 14 2011 09:57 Roxy wrote:
That article is garbage
It is a players choice as to what strategy he does.
If you give a reasonable reward for winning, they will try harder. If i told you that i would give you a kick in the nuts if you won a game, would you try your hardest to win it? no.. i doubt i
Naniwa, you have my full support!
That match meant nothing!!!
how is that any different that naniwa just being like "um, i dont really feel like scouting because im totally pissed off. Im just going to go blind FFE, into blind +2 blink stalkers. im not going to prepare for banelings or a roach all-in and we'll see how this goes.
it is also stupid that you can have a situation where a player with no chance to advance can affect the wins/losses of a person still playing for a seat. The tournament was flawed and this is not naniwa's fault.
Naniwa won no money for losing that game. He was not match fixing. No one said he was match fixing I don't know where that came from. Also he made no attempt to win. He agreed to play all the games. Naniwa agreed to it. He is the one at fault not the tournament. You agree to do something and you don't do it, that's being unprofessional. You can't just saying "I'm upset I'm just going to go home now" with a job. You do your job. Naniwa's job was to perform. He didn't do it. It's childish and unprofessional. If I was told by my employer that I wasn't getting paid anymore, I would immediately walk out the door. I find it VERY ironic that everyone seems to be defining a "professional" as someone that works for free. Except he was getting paid. He was getting $900 to play all 4 games. He agreed to play 4 games for $900 and based on results to possibly get more money.
did he sign anything?
is $900 the prize for last place? (which he succesfully acheived), or was it actually in return for playing 4 games?
as far as i could tel, he entered 4 games. he sat in the booth 4 times. he lost 4 times. he said gg 4 times.
perhaps he picked a bad strategy.. who am i to judge.. but he fulfilled his obligations
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On December 13 2011 22:52 Odal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On December 13 2011 22:46 robih wrote:
its just pathetic how they make a big deal out of nothing "Nothing" to you based on your values. Basically you're making fun of the Gom staff's values, and probably Korean culture in general. Classy! Do you know anything about Korean culture or are you just taking bits and pieces from starcraft forum posts and thinking you understand the culture of an entire country?
like the poster above you said, do you notice how many korean players say"i just want to show good games for my fans"
They cherish and respect every fan they get and would never disrespect their fans like that at least not in a league like GSL.
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I'll find it difficult to support GOMTV's GSL if they allow a child like Naniwa to play in their league, and bring down their reputation along with his own. At the very least he should be heavily punished, hopefully banned from the league for some period of time. I emailed them about this, hope other people feel as I do as well.
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On December 14 2011 10:15 Roxy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 10:14 Femari wrote:On December 14 2011 10:12 U_G_L_Y wrote:On December 14 2011 10:03 Femari wrote:On December 14 2011 09:57 Roxy wrote:
That article is garbage
It is a players choice as to what strategy he does.
If you give a reasonable reward for winning, they will try harder. If i told you that i would give you a kick in the nuts if you won a game, would you try your hardest to win it? no.. i doubt i
Naniwa, you have my full support!
That match meant nothing!!!
how is that any different that naniwa just being like "um, i dont really feel like scouting because im totally pissed off. Im just going to go blind FFE, into blind +2 blink stalkers. im not going to prepare for banelings or a roach all-in and we'll see how this goes.
it is also stupid that you can have a situation where a player with no chance to advance can affect the wins/losses of a person still playing for a seat. The tournament was flawed and this is not naniwa's fault.
Naniwa won no money for losing that game. He was not match fixing. No one said he was match fixing I don't know where that came from. Also he made no attempt to win. He agreed to play all the games. Naniwa agreed to it. He is the one at fault not the tournament. You agree to do something and you don't do it, that's being unprofessional. You can't just saying "I'm upset I'm just going to go home now" with a job. You do your job. Naniwa's job was to perform. He didn't do it. It's childish and unprofessional. If I was told by my employer that I wasn't getting paid anymore, I would immediately walk out the door. I find it VERY ironic that everyone seems to be defining a "professional" as someone that works for free. Except he was getting paid. He was getting $900 to play all 4 games. He agreed to play 4 games for $900 and based on results to possibly get more money. did he sign anything? is $900 the prize for last place? (which he succesfully acheived), or was it actually in return for playing 4 games? as far as i could tel, he entered 4 games. he sat in the booth 4 times. he lost 4 times. he said gg 4 times. perhaps he picked a bad strategy.. who am i to judge.. but he fulfilled his obligations
How can you call that him picking a bad strategy? are you joking?
Did you watch it?
He pressed a on nestea's base and took his hands off the keyboard and you call that him picking a bad strategy?
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This must all be very stressful for Naniwa... I hope he is getting the support he needs and deserves.
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It's just disgusting how you hypocrites hate on Naniwa for nothing. Let's sum this up so even you can understand what you are all crying about. Naniwa had just lost to a really bad executed cheese, if he had won vs MMA who played plat level he could have passed the group. He was disappointed in himself, he had 3 close games vs good player and he was out already. He had to play a game that everyone expected as "THE FINAL GRUDGE MATCH GET YOUR GLOVES ON BLOOD IS GONNA RAIN" or something like that. That was not gonna happen, neither from his side nor from nestea's. He could have 1)used a cheese build or 2)try to play a standard game at probably less than half of his real strenght. That was the same for nestea of course, he would have probably thrown in a cheesy build (I think he admitted this). Naniwa just wanted not to waste his time nor his fans, he wanted this grudge match to actually happen where it counts, so it could be what it was hyped to be. But you don't seem to understand this, since hating on naniwa is what cool teamliquid and reddit kids have been doing for quite some time now.
Also, let me remind you what has happened in the past and this drama never happened. For example Idra being bad mannered to everyone, in official games, GG'ing when the fans were already hyped and in the middle of a game. ITS BETTER FOR HIS MENTALITY you said, and that was in the middle of games that actually meant something. Stephano throwing games when they actually mattered for the rest of the group he was in, nobody said shit, because you just see what you want to see. Nestea playing for fun in a showmatch (remember the gsl allstars something? I recall you had to pay for that too), then he lost to huk and everybody defended him because hey, doing dumb shit was fine because he's nestea and booo huk why would you tryhard when there's nothing on the line? I could go on but you probably don't have the brain to understand/don't want to understand what's happening, just stop talking about naniwa not being worth to be called a progamer because you just don't have any right from your nothingness to trash someone's hard work like that. And also, if something like this gets him penalized somehow then it just shows how much of a joke esports is.
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Singapore147 Posts
On December 14 2011 10:14 Hubris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 10:12 U_G_L_Y wrote:On December 14 2011 10:03 Femari wrote:On December 14 2011 09:57 Roxy wrote:
That article is garbage
It is a players choice as to what strategy he does.
If you give a reasonable reward for winning, they will try harder. If i told you that i would give you a kick in the nuts if you won a game, would you try your hardest to win it? no.. i doubt i
Naniwa, you have my full support!
That match meant nothing!!!
how is that any different that naniwa just being like "um, i dont really feel like scouting because im totally pissed off. Im just going to go blind FFE, into blind +2 blink stalkers. im not going to prepare for banelings or a roach all-in and we'll see how this goes.
it is also stupid that you can have a situation where a player with no chance to advance can affect the wins/losses of a person still playing for a seat. The tournament was flawed and this is not naniwa's fault.
Naniwa won no money for losing that game. He was not match fixing. No one said he was match fixing I don't know where that came from. Also he made no attempt to win. He agreed to play all the games. Naniwa agreed to it. He is the one at fault not the tournament. You agree to do something and you don't do it, that's being unprofessional. You can't just saying "I'm upset I'm just going to go home now" with a job. You do your job. Naniwa's job was to perform. He didn't do it. It's childish and unprofessional. If I was told by my employer that I wasn't getting paid anymore, I would immediately walk out the door. I find it VERY ironic that everyone seems to be defining a "professional" as someone that works for free. So, if you were working for commission, which is essentially what he's doing, you'd walk out? Sounds like you're the type of employee I'd fire before you had a chance to quit. Same goes for Naniwa. His job is more than to "win" tournies. He's a member of a team and represents sponsors 24/7. If he doesn't like that responsibility he shouldn't take it.
amen to that. i'd never hire any of the people who say that nani fulfilled his obligations. he might have fulfilled his contractual obligations but he clearly doesn't try AT ALL unless it benefits him and the people who support him are likely to have the same mindset.
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On December 14 2011 10:12 U_G_L_Y wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 10:03 Femari wrote:On December 14 2011 09:57 Roxy wrote:
That article is garbage
It is a players choice as to what strategy he does.
If you give a reasonable reward for winning, they will try harder. If i told you that i would give you a kick in the nuts if you won a game, would you try your hardest to win it? no.. i doubt i
Naniwa, you have my full support!
That match meant nothing!!!
how is that any different that naniwa just being like "um, i dont really feel like scouting because im totally pissed off. Im just going to go blind FFE, into blind +2 blink stalkers. im not going to prepare for banelings or a roach all-in and we'll see how this goes.
it is also stupid that you can have a situation where a player with no chance to advance can affect the wins/losses of a person still playing for a seat. The tournament was flawed and this is not naniwa's fault.
Naniwa won no money for losing that game. He was not match fixing. No one said he was match fixing I don't know where that came from. Also he made no attempt to win. He agreed to play all the games. Naniwa agreed to it. He is the one at fault not the tournament. You agree to do something and you don't do it, that's being unprofessional. You can't just saying "I'm upset I'm just going to go home now" with a job. You do your job. Naniwa's job was to perform. He didn't do it. It's childish and unprofessional. If I was told by my employer that I wasn't getting paid anymore, I would immediately walk out the door. I find it VERY ironic that everyone seems to be defining a "professional" as someone that works for free.
Seriously?
Is salary come from is team, not from GOMTV tournament. There is a difference between a price and a salary. But, is team pay him a salary to represent them at tournaments... what he did poorly. Quantic even hyped the match before it started.
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Ive noticed alot of canadians have a problem with this maybe even more so then people from other countries. Just kind of interesting.
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On December 13 2011 22:46 robih wrote:
its just pathetic how they make a big deal out of nothing
When you have a bunch of "not so big things", you have a big problem.
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The comments on this thread are out of hand and ridiculous.
First of all, I think it's really retarded that people are saying "Oh! I didn't get my moneys worth" Who can honestly admit they bought a blizzcup ticket for the sole purpose of ONLY watching Naniwa vs Nestea? NOBODY! And to say you didn't get your moneys worth after watching Leenock, Naniwa, Nestea, MMA, Polt, MVP, Stephano, Hero, DRG, and MC vs each other is a slap in the face to all of those players. If somebody can pull out a rule book for Blizzcup and show me where it says "you can't worker rush" then I'll shut up. Fact is, there was no rule stating he couldn't do it. Naniwa was already out of the tournament, regardless if he won or lost and had nothing to prove. Also to the post above, if there's a "rule" for throwing games in SC2, please link me to the rule book. This is not Pro League where you have an established committee and board (Kespa) where the players sign contracts and are (licensed) as pro-gamers. This is a tournament where NONE of the players are licensed (unless MVP still has is which I doubt). Therefore, there's no crime in what Naniwa did. What he did however, was disrespectful to everybody who had high expectations and anticipation for the match. But, he should in no way be "banned from GSL" or "banned from a GSL seeding" or "blizzard event" when there's no contract, licensing, rule book, or committee stating such action could not be performed.
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On December 14 2011 10:20 Xalorian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 10:12 U_G_L_Y wrote:On December 14 2011 10:03 Femari wrote:On December 14 2011 09:57 Roxy wrote:
That article is garbage
It is a players choice as to what strategy he does.
If you give a reasonable reward for winning, they will try harder. If i told you that i would give you a kick in the nuts if you won a game, would you try your hardest to win it? no.. i doubt i
Naniwa, you have my full support!
That match meant nothing!!!
how is that any different that naniwa just being like "um, i dont really feel like scouting because im totally pissed off. Im just going to go blind FFE, into blind +2 blink stalkers. im not going to prepare for banelings or a roach all-in and we'll see how this goes.
it is also stupid that you can have a situation where a player with no chance to advance can affect the wins/losses of a person still playing for a seat. The tournament was flawed and this is not naniwa's fault.
Naniwa won no money for losing that game. He was not match fixing. No one said he was match fixing I don't know where that came from. Also he made no attempt to win. He agreed to play all the games. Naniwa agreed to it. He is the one at fault not the tournament. You agree to do something and you don't do it, that's being unprofessional. You can't just saying "I'm upset I'm just going to go home now" with a job. You do your job. Naniwa's job was to perform. He didn't do it. It's childish and unprofessional. If I was told by my employer that I wasn't getting paid anymore, I would immediately walk out the door. I find it VERY ironic that everyone seems to be defining a "professional" as someone that works for free. Seriously? Is salary come from is team, not from GOMTV tournament. There is a difference between a price and a salary. But, is team pay him a salary to represent them at tournaments... what he did poorly. Quantic even hyped the match before it started.
Yea he made quantic look pretty freaking stupid on twitter, "now the rematch of the century" or w/e they said lol
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United States499 Posts
Very very disrespectful of Naniwa towards GomTV and the staff of Gomtv. Always has been a scumbag always will be.
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EPT
