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+ Show Spoiler +On December 14 2011 09:25 U_G_L_Y wrote:
I am enjoying all the self-righteous preachers who have an arbitrary code of computer game ethics in their minds that everyone else should live by.
Naniwa doesn't owe YOU anything.
It's pretty narcissistic to think that he owes you, or Blizzard, or GSL, or anyone else a certain STYLE of game, or any game at all, for that matter. There is no rule, unwritten or otherwise, that says he must play for your enjoyment for free, and especially not it a certain way.
Naniwa, don't you know that there are thousands of arrogant teenagers all over the world whose lives are now ruined because you won't work for free?
Boy, I bet he feels bad.
Exectly. I think the only thing he should really do after all this situation will settle down, is to talk with Nestea and make it all clear between them, and that would be not just he MUST do, I just think it would be polite (MLG, now this.. I dont think people should be enemies for each other). But, anyway, if he doesnt do it it wouldnt be a big deal.
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I really don't understand why people are so mad over this, let him play the game however he wants; there was no purpose to it, he had just been eliminated from a really close game and neither him nor nestea could advance.
After reading some comments though, I do see an angle where Quantic (his sponsor) might not be happy that he just threw his probes at nestea and gged. But I guess that isn't up to me to decide how they feel about it, it's between naniwa and quantic.
Overall: Why so angry, everyone?
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I'm not angry, just disappointed 
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On December 14 2011 09:33 nagual wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 14 2011 09:25 U_G_L_Y wrote:
I am enjoying all the self-righteous preachers who have an arbitrary code of computer game ethics in their minds that everyone else should live by.
Naniwa doesn't owe YOU anything.
It's pretty narcissistic to think that he owes you, or Blizzard, or GSL, or anyone else a certain STYLE of game, or any game at all, for that matter. There is no rule, unwritten or otherwise, that says he must play for your enjoyment for free, and especially not it a certain way.
Naniwa, don't you know that there are thousands of arrogant teenagers all over the world whose lives are now ruined because you won't work for free?
Boy, I bet he feels bad. Exectly. I think the only thing he should really do after all this situation will settle down, is to talk with Nestea and make it all clear between them, and that would be not just he MUST do, I just think it would be polite (MLG, now this.. I dont think people should be enemies for each other). But, anyway, if he doesnt do it it wouldnt be a big deal.
There is nothing wrong with some rivalry but if you're going to go for rivalry then at least respect the other guy enough to let him have a proper game against you.
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I've always admired Naniwa's attitude. Pure focus on victory. If it isn't 1st place it might as well be last for all hes concerned.
Hell this isn't even new, half the players at MLG's throw there consulation matchs and those can actually matter for seedings.
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Im reading the article again... I cant understand, why people like so much to humiliate other people? Wheres understanding? Sympathy? From their words it was like the worst thing in Starcraft history. Was it? Ironical question.
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Just as Naniwa had the absolute right to throw his game to Nestea (and lets not call it anything else) the viewers, the players, GOM staff and teams have the absolute right to diss him for it. He doesn't have to respect anyone, just play his game. We don't have to respect him at all. And honestly, who does now?
When he starts Code S, the other players will hopefully show their displeasure. The crowd will hopefully boo him. StarTale will hopefully shun him. I want these things not because I particularly hate Naniwa, but because I hate this dichotomy of treating e-sports like a serious sport and also treating e-sports like a non-serious non-professional video game. Not to say that I don't dislike Naniwa and his lack of a meaningful honest apology makes me like him less. But what can I do?
Yes he has the right to be disrespectful and clearly he has the capability to do so. But others have a right to react strongly to it also.
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United States516 Posts
On December 14 2011 09:26 WardenSC wrote:
What naniwa did is a slap in the face to all the fans/officials/players/coaches who grew GSL to what it is today. He literally spat in GSL's face and for that I hope GSL takes away his code S spot. If he wants to compete in GSL, have him get through the code A qualifier first.
So in your opinion, they should dis-invite him from a tournament that, according to the rules they set forth, he already qualified for, and this would somehow be the ethical choice? Really? Because he didn't try in a unrelated game that he had no incentive to play and didn't want to play and wasn't in the mood to play? All because of some arbitrary sense of entitlement/ "honor?"
Stop trying to force your religion on other people.
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On December 14 2011 09:50 nagual wrote:
Im reading the article again... I cant understand, why people like so much to humiliate other people? Wheres understanding? Sympathy? From their words it was like the worst thing in Starcraft history. Was it? Ironical question.
Throwing games is looked at as the worst of the worst.
See sAviOr for more info.
And before Naniwa fans overreact and put words into my mouth I'm not saying Naniwa is matchfixing, I'm saying this is where all the disgust comes from.
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What i read in this arcticle:
blablblbabl typical korean super-overreaction to everything.
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On December 14 2011 09:51 redviper wrote:
Just as Naniwa had the absolute right to throw his game to Nestea (and lets not call it anything else) the viewers, the players, GOM staff and teams have the absolute right to diss him for it. He doesn't have to respect anyone, just play his game. We don't have to respect him at all. And honestly, who does now?
When he starts Code S, the other players will hopefully show their displeasure. The crowd will hopefully boo him. StarTale will hopefully shun him. I want these things not because I particularly hate Naniwa, but because I hate this dichotomy of treating e-sports like a serious sport and also treating e-sports like a non-serious non-professional video game. Not to say that I don't dislike Naniwa and his lack of a meaningful honest apology makes me like him less. But what can I do?
Yes he has the right to be disrespectful and clearly he has the capability to do so. But others have a right to react strongly to it also.
Well said.
If people want esports to grow, then the people behind it have to be more professional like the koreans. This is why it works so well in Korea because it's treated with dignity and respect. All these people on here saying "who cares?" well you should. Sponsors don't want to get involved in something that is risky, if there is a chance that the Idra's(leaves games without trying at all meaning that we don't ever get to see exciting comebacks(which IMO is true-skill, that's why MVP is known as one of the best)) and the Naniwa's will not give them anything for them money and attract viewers/fans then why invest. Your precious GSL would cease to function if all players treated this like Naniwa has done and didn't respect the fact that companies are dumping lots of money into what is basicly a niche form of entertainment and is not-quite mainstream yet.
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That article is garbage
It is a players choice as to what strategy he does.
If you give a reasonable reward for winning, they will try harder. If i told you that i would give you a kick in the nuts if you won a game, would you try your hardest to win it? no.. i doubt i
Naniwa, you have my full support!
That match meant nothing!!!
how is that any different that naniwa just being like "um, i dont really feel like scouting because im totally pissed off. Im just going to go blind FFE, into blind +2 blink stalkers. im not going to prepare for banelings or a roach all-in and we'll see how this goes.
it is also stupid that you can have a situation where a player with no chance to advance can affect the wins/losses of a person still playing for a seat. The tournament was flawed and this is not naniwa's fault.
Naniwa won no money for losing that game. He was not match fixing.
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Not surprised. Naniwa is one of the many who've never grown up.
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On December 14 2011 09:45 Squeegy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 14 2011 09:33 nagual wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 14 2011 09:25 U_G_L_Y wrote:
I am enjoying all the self-righteous preachers who have an arbitrary code of computer game ethics in their minds that everyone else should live by.
Naniwa doesn't owe YOU anything.
It's pretty narcissistic to think that he owes you, or Blizzard, or GSL, or anyone else a certain STYLE of game, or any game at all, for that matter. There is no rule, unwritten or otherwise, that says he must play for your enjoyment for free, and especially not it a certain way.
Naniwa, don't you know that there are thousands of arrogant teenagers all over the world whose lives are now ruined because you won't work for free?
Boy, I bet he feels bad. Exectly. I think the only thing he should really do after all this situation will settle down, is to talk with Nestea and make it all clear between them, and that would be not just he MUST do, I just think it would be polite (MLG, now this.. I dont think people should be enemies for each other). But, anyway, if he doesnt do it it wouldnt be a big deal. There is nothing wrong with some rivalry but if you're going to go for rivalry then at least respect the other guy enough to let him have a proper game against you.
Im looking at this case at the context of this article, and I find incommensurability between what Nani did, and what this mad koreans wrote there. It is basically lynching.
Sure you must respect your opponent. But you dont have to fulfill his expectations. Thats different.
Femari
If you're comparing Nani to a Savior... nothing really to add there.
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United States516 Posts
On December 14 2011 09:22 RowdierBob wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 09:16 StarStruck wrote:On December 14 2011 09:13 RowdierBob wrote:On December 14 2011 09:07 StarStruck wrote:
Bob he owes you nothing.
Don't like him; don't watch.
Don't give him your time. Right now your on his time considering this is a thread about him. ._.
This has the opposite effect. People fork out money to watch him play games. Proper games. He DOES owe his fans something. If he wants to act like a princess, then fine, give the money back and leave the scene. If you're going to accept money from sponsors and fans to play SC2 then you do owe people something. I've already said that needs to be said. I'm not going to continue to repeat myself, but know this. Just because you bought a ticket to watch your team play doesn't mean everyone's going to come out and play. You have every right to boo the product you see; however anything else is over-excessive. I understand your point, but I think if you're going to be a professional gamer, you owe the fans and sponsors more than the bare-ass minimum just because you can't be bothered. Naniwa needs to stop acting life a self-entitled brat and show a bit more respect to those who pay his way as a pro.
You owe people what they pay you for.
Next time I go to a gas station, I'm going to become enraged and really look down my nose at the cashier if he doesn't throw in a candy bar for free when I purchase gasoline. How dare he do the bare-ass minimum. Doesn't he know that I pay his salary?
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IMO there needs to be some governing body between what KESPA was and what we have today. KESPA was completely abusive in sc1 as they had all the power and it feels like we are making the same mistake but in the opposite direction with players these days. All the cries about how he should be banned from playing are ridiculous but that he can ruin content that tournament organizers and viewers are invested in with no consequences is just as bad. We all want to see him learn his lesson and move on.
Basically I am saying we need to find a way to enforce constructive punishment and not go off making examples of people.
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On December 14 2011 09:57 Roxy wrote:
That article is garbage
It is a players choice as to what strategy he does.
If you give a reasonable reward for winning, they will try harder. If i told you that i would give you a kick in the nuts if you won a game, would you try your hardest to win it? no.. i doubt i
Naniwa, you have my full support!
That match meant nothing!!!
how is that any different that naniwa just being like "um, i dont really feel like scouting because im totally pissed off. Im just going to go blind FFE, into blind +2 blink stalkers. im not going to prepare for banelings or a roach all-in and we'll see how this goes.
it is also stupid that you can have a situation where a player with no chance to advance can affect the wins/losses of a person still playing for a seat. The tournament was flawed and this is not naniwa's fault.
Naniwa won no money for losing that game. He was not match fixing.
No one said he was match fixing I don't know where that came from.
Also he made no attempt to win. He agreed to play all the games. Naniwa agreed to it. He is the one at fault not the tournament. You agree to do something and you don't do it, that's being unprofessional.
You can't just saying "I'm upset I'm just going to go home now" with a job. You do your job. Naniwa's job was to perform. He didn't do it. It's childish and unprofessional.
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Wow, everyone raging about someone not wanting to play a pointless game. It could have been fun for the viewers, but it is e-SPORTS after all - why would you play a game that doesn't matter when you don't have to?
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Singapore147 Posts
On December 14 2011 10:03 Zheega wrote:
Wow, everyone raging about someone not wanting to play a pointless game. It could have been fun for the viewers, but it is e-SPORTS after all - why would you play a game that doesn't matter when you don't have to?
professionalism, something that naniwa clearly lacks.
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United States516 Posts
On December 14 2011 09:56 Talack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 09:51 redviper wrote:
Just as Naniwa had the absolute right to throw his game to Nestea (and lets not call it anything else) the viewers, the players, GOM staff and teams have the absolute right to diss him for it. He doesn't have to respect anyone, just play his game. We don't have to respect him at all. And honestly, who does now?
When he starts Code S, the other players will hopefully show their displeasure. The crowd will hopefully boo him. StarTale will hopefully shun him. I want these things not because I particularly hate Naniwa, but because I hate this dichotomy of treating e-sports like a serious sport and also treating e-sports like a non-serious non-professional video game. Not to say that I don't dislike Naniwa and his lack of a meaningful honest apology makes me like him less. But what can I do?
Yes he has the right to be disrespectful and clearly he has the capability to do so. But others have a right to react strongly to it also.
Well said. If people want esports to grow, then the people behind it have to be more professional like the koreans. This is why it works so well in Korea because it's treated with dignity and respect. All these people on here saying "who cares?" well you should. Sponsors don't want to get involved in something that is risky, if there is a chance that the Idra's(leaves games without trying at all meaning that we don't ever get to see exciting comebacks(which IMO is true-skill, that's why MVP is known as one of the best)) and the Naniwa's will not give them anything for them money and attract viewers/fans then why invest. Your precious GSL would cease to function if all players treated this like Naniwa has done and didn't respect the fact that companies are dumping lots of money into what is basicly a niche form of entertainment and is not-quite mainstream yet.
In American Football, when the team that is ahead has the ball and there isn't enough time on the clock to call a delay of game penalty, the quarterback simply kneels down after the ball is snapped rather than try to score additional points.
Jeez, someone should tell the NFL that they are going to cease to function any minute now! Lookout!
Naniwa should respect the fact that there was no chance of him earning any money, and he should continue to try his best so that the GSL can make a profit off of him without paying him.... Wait, does that sound retarded to anyone else?
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EPT
