|
the future of tvp is still MMMVG. anything else can be punished by a suitably 1a.
|
On December 09 2011 09:27 Psychobabas wrote:
Yep, TvP, favoured towards Protoss as expected.
Waiting for Blizzard to fix this situation we got here.
Well judging by the graph. Starting from the last time protoss was favoured in the match up = Terran fairly heavily favoured in the match up for 2 months, slightly favoured for 1 and then fairly heavily favoured for another month before Protoss actually eclipsed terran. So you're looking at April before you're favoured again.
I also love how at any stage this past year. Zerg has never been favoured against terran.
|
On December 09 2011 10:51 Nymbul wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 09:27 Psychobabas wrote:
Yep, TvP, favoured towards Protoss as expected.
Waiting for Blizzard to fix this situation we got here. Well judging by the graph. Starting from the last time protoss was favoured in the match up = Terran fairly heavily favoured in the match up for 2 months, slightly favoured for 1 and then fairly heavily favoured for another month before Protoss actually eclipsed terran. So you're looking at April before you're favoured again.
Yeah, us Terrans owe it to Toss for them to be OP. You know since we make ourselves OP and all. Nevermind about balance for now 
|
On December 09 2011 10:53 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 10:51 Nymbul wrote:On December 09 2011 09:27 Psychobabas wrote:
Yep, TvP, favoured towards Protoss as expected.
Waiting for Blizzard to fix this situation we got here. Well judging by the graph. Starting from the last time protoss was favoured in the match up = Terran fairly heavily favoured in the match up for 2 months, slightly favoured for 1 and then fairly heavily favoured for another month before Protoss actually eclipsed terran. So you're looking at April before you're favoured again. Yeah, us Terrans owe it to Toss for them to be OP. You know since we make ourselves OP and all. Nevermind about balance for now
It's gonna be a long while until the game is truely balanced, so for now the best we can hope for is equal time intervals of slight imbalance for each race.
This isn't a personal cry out from me. It's just gonna be like this until Legacy of the Void.
It could be worse. You could be at less than 45% in both your non-mirrors at the same time. Something that zerg and protoss have had to put up with
|
On December 09 2011 09:33 K3Nyy wrote:
Replacing Vikings with Banshees might definitely be viable. They force out extra Stalkers late game and adds a ton of DPS to the ball without Colo/Chargelots hitting them. I predict Banshees will be the future of late game TvP.
Obviously. Why would anyone want to build Vikings out of a much needed Reactor Starport (from what I've heard, you may need Medivacs along with Marines and Marauders) when you can get 6-ranged paper planes which are built 3 times slower and get one-shot by Feedback? Silly Terrans.
|
On December 09 2011 10:23 kofman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 10:11 Cloud9157 wrote:On December 09 2011 08:45 ZorBa.G wrote:On December 09 2011 08:19 Big J wrote:On December 09 2011 07:25 ZorBa.G wrote:
The biggest problem here is;
The skill gap between Wood league and Professional level for Protoss is MUCH smaller then the skill gap for Terran.
What grinds my gears is that Terran is continued with this burden to micro more and more as they keep getting nerfed on Protoss accord.
I think it's obvious what the solution is;
Fix this shit design of a race (Protoss) Blizzard and stop nerfing Terran. The only thing you guys are doing is increasing the skill gap for Terrans whilst minimizing it for Toss. why is the skill gap for Terrans that big in your opinion? I myself as a mid-high master zerg player have no problem with playing Terran around mid-high diamond level without any micro/multitasking training for them... On the other hand I have huge troubles with forcefielding, my stalker kiting usually always leads to a lot of hull damage and I keep on missing warp ins. So from my personal experiences, I would say that Protoss is way harder to play overall than Terran for me, at least if I'm not doing a plain colossus or gateway allin. (note this is ONLY personal experience and note that maybe "zerg skills" simply transfer better to "terran skills" than to "protoss skills") On December 09 2011 07:25 ZorBa.G wrote:
I'm not getting paid to balance the game out, you are Blizzard. Stop trying to find the easy way out trying to nerf Terran, I think it's time to realize that you really screwed up the Toss race in the first place and it's becoming evident you need to fix it.
EDIT: And who is the Einstein that came up with the idea of warp mechanics? Seriously, doesn't it occur to you that one of the fine aspects of RTS games is the timing of moving your army from your base on foot to your opponents base. It's like you designed this race, then went SHIT we have a big problem here (no one new about before it was released) and said oh well "lets just let these guys teleport in front of the Terran/Zergs base." Smart idea indeed! Apparently Starcraft 2 is an RTS and apparently there is warp in in it and apparently it is one of the best games out there, for forum posters like you and me probably the best (else we would play and write about something else). In other great RTS games you will find similar abilities to warp in ("ambush" from C&C generals f.e.), or simply machanics that curcumvent army movement at all (nukes looooooooooooooooooong rang artillery) and even in Starcraft:BW and Starcraft 2 there is another such mechanism that works against such timings: Nydus Network. So I guess no, those walk out timings are not "one of the fine apects of RTS", but "one of the fine aspects of Race X in game Y". PS: Even with all of Warp Ins problems, I love the idea behind it... It just makes Protoss feel different from Terran gameplaywise. (each race no has unique production: larva, "normal RTS rally", warp in) Why is the skill gap that big in my opinion? - IIRC we have 1 Terran going to Blizzcon so far... MVP. - Name me some outstanding foreign Terrans atm? The only ones doing well are the top Terrans in GSL jjakji, MVP, fin (ForGG) looks promising. In Korea. - Look at the general consensus on SC2 forums, I must be imagining things when I see so many Terrans complaining about late game T v P An outstanding foreign Terran? Demuslim and Thorzain are 2 that come to mind, Jinro is still hanging around as well. But see, you're WAY late with that. I've been saying ever since HSC3 that foreign Terrans (as a whole) are not that good and need to step their game up. Keep in mind this is when Terran still had the edge over Protoss, so I don't get how your point gets to transfer to now when it was STILL happening back then. Demuslim hasn't won anything, and the only success that thorzain has had was in tsl. Jinro has been abscent for half a year now. I agree with you, foriegn terrans arent as good as foriegn zergs or protosses.
I'd agree with this but people seem to dismiss the idea that Terran is a very demanding and unforgiving race. I think it has the highest skill cap, so the closer you get to "Perfect" play, the better Terran gets, more so than the other two races. But I also think Terran mistakes are penalized more heavily than the other two races.
So we get Terran doing very well in Korea, especially among the top 3-5 players, where their play is as close to perfect play as we have, but outside Korea where players make many more mistakes, Terran drops off very quickly.
|
On December 09 2011 10:54 Nymbul wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 10:53 ZorBa.G wrote:On December 09 2011 10:51 Nymbul wrote:On December 09 2011 09:27 Psychobabas wrote:
Yep, TvP, favoured towards Protoss as expected.
Waiting for Blizzard to fix this situation we got here. Well judging by the graph. Starting from the last time protoss was favoured in the match up = Terran fairly heavily favoured in the match up for 2 months, slightly favoured for 1 and then fairly heavily favoured for another month before Protoss actually eclipsed terran. So you're looking at April before you're favoured again. Yeah, us Terrans owe it to Toss for them to be OP. You know since we make ourselves OP and all. Nevermind about balance for now It's gonna be a long while until the game is truely balanced, so for now the best we can hope for is equal time intervals of slight imbalance for each race. This isn't a personal cry out from me. It's just gonna be like this until Legacy of the Void. It could be worse. You could be at less than 45% in both your non-mirrors at the same time. Something that zerg and protoss have had to put up with
Yeah I think storms should be buffed with more instant damage instead.... and the build time for Collossi should be reduced. While we are at it, we should also nerf marines with 10% less hp. You're just going to have to micro harder Terrans!
|
On December 09 2011 10:54 Nymbul wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 10:53 ZorBa.G wrote:On December 09 2011 10:51 Nymbul wrote:On December 09 2011 09:27 Psychobabas wrote:
Yep, TvP, favoured towards Protoss as expected.
Waiting for Blizzard to fix this situation we got here. Well judging by the graph. Starting from the last time protoss was favoured in the match up = Terran fairly heavily favoured in the match up for 2 months, slightly favoured for 1 and then fairly heavily favoured for another month before Protoss actually eclipsed terran. So you're looking at April before you're favoured again. Yeah, us Terrans owe it to Toss for them to be OP. You know since we make ourselves OP and all. Nevermind about balance for now It's gonna be a long while until the game is truely balanced, so for now the best we can hope for is equal time intervals of slight imbalance for each race. This isn't a personal cry out from me. It's just gonna be like this until Legacy of the Void. It could be worse. You could be at less than 45% in both your non-mirrors at the same time. Something that zerg and protoss have had to put up with
Its going to be that way regardless of patches and expansions dude. Fluctuations happen, I don´t know why you even call them intervals of imbalance. Strategy evolves, look at Broodwar TvZ, is fluctuated like crazy but it was all strategy. Not ¨imbalances¨ .
Hell IIRC ZvT even reached like 30% in BW, Zergs then had to revise their strategies. I don´t know why people expect exactly 50% in all MUs all the time, thats just impossible.
I don´t get why people can´t see beyond IMBA and start seeing... you know, strategy in the strategy games T_T
|
On December 09 2011 11:15 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 10:54 Nymbul wrote:On December 09 2011 10:53 ZorBa.G wrote:On December 09 2011 10:51 Nymbul wrote:On December 09 2011 09:27 Psychobabas wrote:
Yep, TvP, favoured towards Protoss as expected.
Waiting for Blizzard to fix this situation we got here. Well judging by the graph. Starting from the last time protoss was favoured in the match up = Terran fairly heavily favoured in the match up for 2 months, slightly favoured for 1 and then fairly heavily favoured for another month before Protoss actually eclipsed terran. So you're looking at April before you're favoured again. Yeah, us Terrans owe it to Toss for them to be OP. You know since we make ourselves OP and all. Nevermind about balance for now It's gonna be a long while until the game is truely balanced, so for now the best we can hope for is equal time intervals of slight imbalance for each race. This isn't a personal cry out from me. It's just gonna be like this until Legacy of the Void. It could be worse. You could be at less than 45% in both your non-mirrors at the same time. Something that zerg and protoss have had to put up with Yeah I think storms should be buffed with more instant damage instead.... and the build time for Collossi should be reduced. While we are at it, we should also nerf marines with 10% less hp. You're just going to have to micro harder Terrans!
Don't be ridiculous. Come up with something that actually makes sense. Like the changes were
Immortals, the unit that's actually meant to counter the marauder now actually isn't outranged by the unit it's meant to be good against
EMP now only has a +1 range advantage over Storm and Fungal instead of a +1 range and +50 radius advantage.
You think it was fair that EMP had a larger radius than it's counterparts and a longer range? and that marauders could outrange their counter unit?
Imagine if stakers could outrange marauders, the unit that marauders are meant to be good against and they could slow your marauders so that the marauders could never actually get in range of them.
The changes made sense and terran are just gonna have to bite the bullet on that one. If the buff to toss were stupid then i'd be the first to disagree. The only one I do disagree with is the cost reduction on ground weapons level 2 and 3 since they cover all ground units and should therefore be more expensive. The armor and shield cost reductions make sense because they only benefit at best 50% of the unit's health and at worst 25-30%
|
Ever since those upgrades for toss got cheaper, they seem to be so much scarier. A warp prism with speed is pretty damn annoying to deal with if you can't catch it over land. Still, I feel like it's a bad decision that kills me against Protoss most of the time I lose, as opposed to the race being too strong all of a sudden. Warp prisms though... They are so fast with that upgrade, lol. I thought one was a phoenix the first time I saw it in action. One with a shit load of HP and shields.
It's cool to see Protoss doing new things. 4-gating kids who cry when you defend the all-in were just starting to get on my nerves.
|
On December 09 2011 11:01 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 09:33 K3Nyy wrote:
Replacing Vikings with Banshees might definitely be viable. They force out extra Stalkers late game and adds a ton of DPS to the ball without Colo/Chargelots hitting them. I predict Banshees will be the future of late game TvP. Obviously. Why would anyone want to build Vikings out of a much needed Reactor Starport (from what I've heard, you may need Medivacs along with Marines and Marauders) when you can get 6-ranged paper planes which are built 3 times slower and get one-shot by Feedback? Silly Terrans.
You should still have Ghosts. Most battles begin with the Terran sniping/EMP the Templar or vice versa. And Banshees can drain their energy with cloak before fights anyway. Obviously you're still going to have to go Vikings midgame in order to stop Colo but when you're both on multiple bases and bank a ton of resources, it might be a good idea. Also, Vikings are less durable than Banshees and Banshees force useless Stalkers in the fight that don't actually do much damage. Banshees are also immune to Colo and Chargelots. That's why I think Banshees should be used more, especially late game compared to Vikings.
There's already some kind of air TvP guide so I'm thinking it might work. Maybe it will be viable, maybe not, guess only time will tell.
|
On December 09 2011 12:37 K3Nyy wrote:
Obviously you're still going to have to go Vikings midgame in order to stop Colo but when you're both on multiple bases and bank a ton of resources, it might be a good idea.
Nukes/PFs/OCs/extra production facilities are much better as a resource sink once you're maxed, and MMMGV is superior than Banshees in every aspect. Instead of theorycrafting, play the game and try to incorporate Banshees in standard bio play; you will quickly see that they're simply not cost-efficient past early game. Terrans already have enough micro to perform in fight with standard play, there's no room to babysit ineffective paperplanes which won't add anything to your army anyway.
On December 09 2011 12:37 K3Nyy wrote:
Banshees are also immune to Colo and Chargelots.
So? Once your ground army gets rolled because you had inefficient supply in those Banshees, and assuming than you killed all Protoss anti-air, what prevents the Protoss player from warping Stalkers and blink forward to pick off your unsupported Banshees? Isn't it the way Protoss deal with Banshees when Terrans go 1-1-1? First they go Zealots/Immortals to deal with Marine/Tanks, then if they win the fight they warp enough Stalkers to fend off the remaining Banshees.
On December 09 2011 12:37 K3Nyy wrote:
There's already some kind of air TvP guide so I'm thinking it might work. Maybe it will be viable, maybe not, guess only time will tell.
This is off topic. You were talking about replacing Vikings with Banshees, which implies bio play. Pure air will of course have Banshees since, well, that's the core of air play.
|
On December 09 2011 10:23 kofman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 10:11 Cloud9157 wrote:On December 09 2011 08:45 ZorBa.G wrote:On December 09 2011 08:19 Big J wrote:On December 09 2011 07:25 ZorBa.G wrote:
The biggest problem here is;
The skill gap between Wood league and Professional level for Protoss is MUCH smaller then the skill gap for Terran.
What grinds my gears is that Terran is continued with this burden to micro more and more as they keep getting nerfed on Protoss accord.
I think it's obvious what the solution is;
Fix this shit design of a race (Protoss) Blizzard and stop nerfing Terran. The only thing you guys are doing is increasing the skill gap for Terrans whilst minimizing it for Toss. why is the skill gap for Terrans that big in your opinion? I myself as a mid-high master zerg player have no problem with playing Terran around mid-high diamond level without any micro/multitasking training for them... On the other hand I have huge troubles with forcefielding, my stalker kiting usually always leads to a lot of hull damage and I keep on missing warp ins. So from my personal experiences, I would say that Protoss is way harder to play overall than Terran for me, at least if I'm not doing a plain colossus or gateway allin. (note this is ONLY personal experience and note that maybe "zerg skills" simply transfer better to "terran skills" than to "protoss skills") On December 09 2011 07:25 ZorBa.G wrote:
I'm not getting paid to balance the game out, you are Blizzard. Stop trying to find the easy way out trying to nerf Terran, I think it's time to realize that you really screwed up the Toss race in the first place and it's becoming evident you need to fix it.
EDIT: And who is the Einstein that came up with the idea of warp mechanics? Seriously, doesn't it occur to you that one of the fine aspects of RTS games is the timing of moving your army from your base on foot to your opponents base. It's like you designed this race, then went SHIT we have a big problem here (no one new about before it was released) and said oh well "lets just let these guys teleport in front of the Terran/Zergs base." Smart idea indeed! Apparently Starcraft 2 is an RTS and apparently there is warp in in it and apparently it is one of the best games out there, for forum posters like you and me probably the best (else we would play and write about something else). In other great RTS games you will find similar abilities to warp in ("ambush" from C&C generals f.e.), or simply machanics that curcumvent army movement at all (nukes looooooooooooooooooong rang artillery) and even in Starcraft:BW and Starcraft 2 there is another such mechanism that works against such timings: Nydus Network. So I guess no, those walk out timings are not "one of the fine apects of RTS", but "one of the fine aspects of Race X in game Y". PS: Even with all of Warp Ins problems, I love the idea behind it... It just makes Protoss feel different from Terran gameplaywise. (each race no has unique production: larva, "normal RTS rally", warp in) Why is the skill gap that big in my opinion? - IIRC we have 1 Terran going to Blizzcon so far... MVP. - Name me some outstanding foreign Terrans atm? The only ones doing well are the top Terrans in GSL jjakji, MVP, fin (ForGG) looks promising. In Korea. - Look at the general consensus on SC2 forums, I must be imagining things when I see so many Terrans complaining about late game T v P An outstanding foreign Terran? Demuslim and Thorzain are 2 that come to mind, Jinro is still hanging around as well. But see, you're WAY late with that. I've been saying ever since HSC3 that foreign Terrans (as a whole) are not that good and need to step their game up. Keep in mind this is when Terran still had the edge over Protoss, so I don't get how your point gets to transfer to now when it was STILL happening back then. Demuslim hasn't won anything, and the only success that thorzain has had was in tsl. Jinro has been abscent for half a year now. I agree with you, foriegn terrans arent as good as foriegn zergs or protosses.
So you need to win a tournament to be considered amazing?
And don't ignore the fact that Thorzain nearly took down DRG at DH invite, even though DRG is a ZvT specialist.
Demuslim getting a Code A spot also doesn't factor in?
|
On December 09 2011 12:25 dUTtrOACh wrote:
Warp prisms though... They are so fast with that upgrade, lol. I thought one was a phoenix the first time I saw it in action. One with a shit load of HP and shields.
That's bothering me, too. Without doubt the best dropship of all: highest durability, highest speed, double-serves as production proxy -- and doesn't even cost gas? Erm, WTF?
|
On December 09 2011 13:05 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 10:23 kofman wrote:On December 09 2011 10:11 Cloud9157 wrote:On December 09 2011 08:45 ZorBa.G wrote:On December 09 2011 08:19 Big J wrote:On December 09 2011 07:25 ZorBa.G wrote:
The biggest problem here is;
The skill gap between Wood league and Professional level for Protoss is MUCH smaller then the skill gap for Terran.
What grinds my gears is that Terran is continued with this burden to micro more and more as they keep getting nerfed on Protoss accord.
I think it's obvious what the solution is;
Fix this shit design of a race (Protoss) Blizzard and stop nerfing Terran. The only thing you guys are doing is increasing the skill gap for Terrans whilst minimizing it for Toss. why is the skill gap for Terrans that big in your opinion? I myself as a mid-high master zerg player have no problem with playing Terran around mid-high diamond level without any micro/multitasking training for them... On the other hand I have huge troubles with forcefielding, my stalker kiting usually always leads to a lot of hull damage and I keep on missing warp ins. So from my personal experiences, I would say that Protoss is way harder to play overall than Terran for me, at least if I'm not doing a plain colossus or gateway allin. (note this is ONLY personal experience and note that maybe "zerg skills" simply transfer better to "terran skills" than to "protoss skills") On December 09 2011 07:25 ZorBa.G wrote:
I'm not getting paid to balance the game out, you are Blizzard. Stop trying to find the easy way out trying to nerf Terran, I think it's time to realize that you really screwed up the Toss race in the first place and it's becoming evident you need to fix it.
EDIT: And who is the Einstein that came up with the idea of warp mechanics? Seriously, doesn't it occur to you that one of the fine aspects of RTS games is the timing of moving your army from your base on foot to your opponents base. It's like you designed this race, then went SHIT we have a big problem here (no one new about before it was released) and said oh well "lets just let these guys teleport in front of the Terran/Zergs base." Smart idea indeed! Apparently Starcraft 2 is an RTS and apparently there is warp in in it and apparently it is one of the best games out there, for forum posters like you and me probably the best (else we would play and write about something else). In other great RTS games you will find similar abilities to warp in ("ambush" from C&C generals f.e.), or simply machanics that curcumvent army movement at all (nukes looooooooooooooooooong rang artillery) and even in Starcraft:BW and Starcraft 2 there is another such mechanism that works against such timings: Nydus Network. So I guess no, those walk out timings are not "one of the fine apects of RTS", but "one of the fine aspects of Race X in game Y". PS: Even with all of Warp Ins problems, I love the idea behind it... It just makes Protoss feel different from Terran gameplaywise. (each race no has unique production: larva, "normal RTS rally", warp in) Why is the skill gap that big in my opinion? - IIRC we have 1 Terran going to Blizzcon so far... MVP. - Name me some outstanding foreign Terrans atm? The only ones doing well are the top Terrans in GSL jjakji, MVP, fin (ForGG) looks promising. In Korea. - Look at the general consensus on SC2 forums, I must be imagining things when I see so many Terrans complaining about late game T v P An outstanding foreign Terran? Demuslim and Thorzain are 2 that come to mind, Jinro is still hanging around as well. But see, you're WAY late with that. I've been saying ever since HSC3 that foreign Terrans (as a whole) are not that good and need to step their game up. Keep in mind this is when Terran still had the edge over Protoss, so I don't get how your point gets to transfer to now when it was STILL happening back then. Demuslim hasn't won anything, and the only success that thorzain has had was in tsl. Jinro has been abscent for half a year now. I agree with you, foriegn terrans arent as good as foriegn zergs or protosses. So you need to win a tournament to be considered amazing? And don't ignore the fact that Thorzain nearly took down DRG at DH invite, even though DRG is a ZvT specialist. Demuslim getting a Code A spot also doesn't factor in?
no, but demuslim barely made it out of the open braket at the last mlg. tell me, whens the last time hes actually earned any money?
Just cause you "almost" beat a great player doesn't make you great. Yes, hes good, but hes not at the level of huk or stephano. If almost beating a good player is what you consider good, then basically every player in the world would be considered good.
as far as i know, demuslim doesnt have a code a spot. and if he does have one, its probably one that they gave to him just cause hes a forigner. Sorry, but i dont expect him to make it past the first round, considering how bad thorzain, sase, sheth, and naniwa did.
|
On December 09 2011 13:42 kofman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 13:05 Cloud9157 wrote:On December 09 2011 10:23 kofman wrote:On December 09 2011 10:11 Cloud9157 wrote:On December 09 2011 08:45 ZorBa.G wrote:On December 09 2011 08:19 Big J wrote:On December 09 2011 07:25 ZorBa.G wrote:
The biggest problem here is;
The skill gap between Wood league and Professional level for Protoss is MUCH smaller then the skill gap for Terran.
What grinds my gears is that Terran is continued with this burden to micro more and more as they keep getting nerfed on Protoss accord.
I think it's obvious what the solution is;
Fix this shit design of a race (Protoss) Blizzard and stop nerfing Terran. The only thing you guys are doing is increasing the skill gap for Terrans whilst minimizing it for Toss. why is the skill gap for Terrans that big in your opinion? I myself as a mid-high master zerg player have no problem with playing Terran around mid-high diamond level without any micro/multitasking training for them... On the other hand I have huge troubles with forcefielding, my stalker kiting usually always leads to a lot of hull damage and I keep on missing warp ins. So from my personal experiences, I would say that Protoss is way harder to play overall than Terran for me, at least if I'm not doing a plain colossus or gateway allin. (note this is ONLY personal experience and note that maybe "zerg skills" simply transfer better to "terran skills" than to "protoss skills") On December 09 2011 07:25 ZorBa.G wrote:
I'm not getting paid to balance the game out, you are Blizzard. Stop trying to find the easy way out trying to nerf Terran, I think it's time to realize that you really screwed up the Toss race in the first place and it's becoming evident you need to fix it.
EDIT: And who is the Einstein that came up with the idea of warp mechanics? Seriously, doesn't it occur to you that one of the fine aspects of RTS games is the timing of moving your army from your base on foot to your opponents base. It's like you designed this race, then went SHIT we have a big problem here (no one new about before it was released) and said oh well "lets just let these guys teleport in front of the Terran/Zergs base." Smart idea indeed! Apparently Starcraft 2 is an RTS and apparently there is warp in in it and apparently it is one of the best games out there, for forum posters like you and me probably the best (else we would play and write about something else). In other great RTS games you will find similar abilities to warp in ("ambush" from C&C generals f.e.), or simply machanics that curcumvent army movement at all (nukes looooooooooooooooooong rang artillery) and even in Starcraft:BW and Starcraft 2 there is another such mechanism that works against such timings: Nydus Network. So I guess no, those walk out timings are not "one of the fine apects of RTS", but "one of the fine aspects of Race X in game Y". PS: Even with all of Warp Ins problems, I love the idea behind it... It just makes Protoss feel different from Terran gameplaywise. (each race no has unique production: larva, "normal RTS rally", warp in) Why is the skill gap that big in my opinion? - IIRC we have 1 Terran going to Blizzcon so far... MVP. - Name me some outstanding foreign Terrans atm? The only ones doing well are the top Terrans in GSL jjakji, MVP, fin (ForGG) looks promising. In Korea. - Look at the general consensus on SC2 forums, I must be imagining things when I see so many Terrans complaining about late game T v P An outstanding foreign Terran? Demuslim and Thorzain are 2 that come to mind, Jinro is still hanging around as well. But see, you're WAY late with that. I've been saying ever since HSC3 that foreign Terrans (as a whole) are not that good and need to step their game up. Keep in mind this is when Terran still had the edge over Protoss, so I don't get how your point gets to transfer to now when it was STILL happening back then. Demuslim hasn't won anything, and the only success that thorzain has had was in tsl. Jinro has been abscent for half a year now. I agree with you, foriegn terrans arent as good as foriegn zergs or protosses. So you need to win a tournament to be considered amazing? And don't ignore the fact that Thorzain nearly took down DRG at DH invite, even though DRG is a ZvT specialist. Demuslim getting a Code A spot also doesn't factor in? no, but demuslim barely made it out of the open braket at the last mlg. tell me, whens the last time hes actually earned any money? Just cause you "almost" beat a great player doesn't make you great. Yes, hes good, but hes not at the level of huk or stephano. If almost beating a good player is what you consider good, then basically every player in the world would be considered good. as far as i know, demuslim doesnt have a code a spot. and if he does have one, its probably one that they gave to him just cause hes a forigner. Sorry, but i dont expect him to make it past the first round, considering how bad thorzain, sase, sheth, and naniwa did.
Im pretty confident I could almost beat IdrA.
|
On December 09 2011 10:53 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 10:51 Nymbul wrote:On December 09 2011 09:27 Psychobabas wrote:
Yep, TvP, favoured towards Protoss as expected.
Waiting for Blizzard to fix this situation we got here. Well judging by the graph. Starting from the last time protoss was favoured in the match up = Terran fairly heavily favoured in the match up for 2 months, slightly favoured for 1 and then fairly heavily favoured for another month before Protoss actually eclipsed terran. So you're looking at April before you're favoured again. Yeah, us Terrans owe it to Toss for them to be OP. You know since we make ourselves OP and all. Nevermind about balance for now SC2 can be such a childish community. For literally a single month after the resulting balance changes, terran is unfavoured by like 5-6%. Not only is that essentially within the margin of error, anyone with a brain knows to ignore the stats after a major balance or metagame shift for at least a month, possibly two. It takes time for things to settle. Zerg win rates in BW were hovering around 40% and below after the mech revolution in 2008. No one cried imba, people just worked at it and things worked itself out.
If you havent realized major balance changes are slowing down DRAMATICALLY, and given the recent problems with protoss and the changes to fix that, there probably wont be anymore ever. Not until the expansion, and even then there will probably only be like two changes. Blizzard cant baby the community forever, its retarded.
|
On December 09 2011 13:46 Techno wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 13:42 kofman wrote:On December 09 2011 13:05 Cloud9157 wrote:On December 09 2011 10:23 kofman wrote:On December 09 2011 10:11 Cloud9157 wrote:On December 09 2011 08:45 ZorBa.G wrote:On December 09 2011 08:19 Big J wrote:On December 09 2011 07:25 ZorBa.G wrote:
The biggest problem here is;
The skill gap between Wood league and Professional level for Protoss is MUCH smaller then the skill gap for Terran.
What grinds my gears is that Terran is continued with this burden to micro more and more as they keep getting nerfed on Protoss accord.
I think it's obvious what the solution is;
Fix this shit design of a race (Protoss) Blizzard and stop nerfing Terran. The only thing you guys are doing is increasing the skill gap for Terrans whilst minimizing it for Toss. why is the skill gap for Terrans that big in your opinion? I myself as a mid-high master zerg player have no problem with playing Terran around mid-high diamond level without any micro/multitasking training for them... On the other hand I have huge troubles with forcefielding, my stalker kiting usually always leads to a lot of hull damage and I keep on missing warp ins. So from my personal experiences, I would say that Protoss is way harder to play overall than Terran for me, at least if I'm not doing a plain colossus or gateway allin. (note this is ONLY personal experience and note that maybe "zerg skills" simply transfer better to "terran skills" than to "protoss skills") On December 09 2011 07:25 ZorBa.G wrote:
I'm not getting paid to balance the game out, you are Blizzard. Stop trying to find the easy way out trying to nerf Terran, I think it's time to realize that you really screwed up the Toss race in the first place and it's becoming evident you need to fix it.
EDIT: And who is the Einstein that came up with the idea of warp mechanics? Seriously, doesn't it occur to you that one of the fine aspects of RTS games is the timing of moving your army from your base on foot to your opponents base. It's like you designed this race, then went SHIT we have a big problem here (no one new about before it was released) and said oh well "lets just let these guys teleport in front of the Terran/Zergs base." Smart idea indeed! Apparently Starcraft 2 is an RTS and apparently there is warp in in it and apparently it is one of the best games out there, for forum posters like you and me probably the best (else we would play and write about something else). In other great RTS games you will find similar abilities to warp in ("ambush" from C&C generals f.e.), or simply machanics that curcumvent army movement at all (nukes looooooooooooooooooong rang artillery) and even in Starcraft:BW and Starcraft 2 there is another such mechanism that works against such timings: Nydus Network. So I guess no, those walk out timings are not "one of the fine apects of RTS", but "one of the fine aspects of Race X in game Y". PS: Even with all of Warp Ins problems, I love the idea behind it... It just makes Protoss feel different from Terran gameplaywise. (each race no has unique production: larva, "normal RTS rally", warp in) Why is the skill gap that big in my opinion? - IIRC we have 1 Terran going to Blizzcon so far... MVP. - Name me some outstanding foreign Terrans atm? The only ones doing well are the top Terrans in GSL jjakji, MVP, fin (ForGG) looks promising. In Korea. - Look at the general consensus on SC2 forums, I must be imagining things when I see so many Terrans complaining about late game T v P An outstanding foreign Terran? Demuslim and Thorzain are 2 that come to mind, Jinro is still hanging around as well. But see, you're WAY late with that. I've been saying ever since HSC3 that foreign Terrans (as a whole) are not that good and need to step their game up. Keep in mind this is when Terran still had the edge over Protoss, so I don't get how your point gets to transfer to now when it was STILL happening back then. Demuslim hasn't won anything, and the only success that thorzain has had was in tsl. Jinro has been abscent for half a year now. I agree with you, foriegn terrans arent as good as foriegn zergs or protosses. So you need to win a tournament to be considered amazing? And don't ignore the fact that Thorzain nearly took down DRG at DH invite, even though DRG is a ZvT specialist. Demuslim getting a Code A spot also doesn't factor in? no, but demuslim barely made it out of the open braket at the last mlg. tell me, whens the last time hes actually earned any money? Just cause you "almost" beat a great player doesn't make you great. Yes, hes good, but hes not at the level of huk or stephano. If almost beating a good player is what you consider good, then basically every player in the world would be considered good. as far as i know, demuslim doesnt have a code a spot. and if he does have one, its probably one that they gave to him just cause hes a forigner. Sorry, but i dont expect him to make it past the first round, considering how bad thorzain, sase, sheth, and naniwa did. Im pretty confident I could almost beat IdrA.
thats exactly what i mean.
|
Yay for the color blind version!
Interesting too.
|
On December 09 2011 13:50 lizzard_warish wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 10:53 ZorBa.G wrote:On December 09 2011 10:51 Nymbul wrote:On December 09 2011 09:27 Psychobabas wrote:
Yep, TvP, favoured towards Protoss as expected.
Waiting for Blizzard to fix this situation we got here. Well judging by the graph. Starting from the last time protoss was favoured in the match up = Terran fairly heavily favoured in the match up for 2 months, slightly favoured for 1 and then fairly heavily favoured for another month before Protoss actually eclipsed terran. So you're looking at April before you're favoured again. Yeah, us Terrans owe it to Toss for them to be OP. You know since we make ourselves OP and all. Nevermind about balance for now SC2 can be such a childish community. For literally a single month after the resulting balance changes, terran is unfavoured by like 5-6%. Not only is that essentially within the margin of error, anyone with a brain knows to ignore the stats after a major balance or metagame shift for at least a month, possibly two. It takes time for things to settle. Zerg win rates in BW were hovering around 40% and below after the mech revolution in 2008. No one cried imba, people just worked at it and things worked itself out. If you havent realized major balance changes are slowing down DRAMATICALLY, and given the recent problems with protoss and the changes to fix that, there probably wont be anymore ever. Not until the expansion, and even then there will probably only be like two changes. Blizzard cant baby the community forever, its retarded.
I dont know why you quoted that guy cause your post is completely irrelevant to his.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
