• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:59
CEST 10:59
KST 17:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting6[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO65.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)75Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition325.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)119
StarCraft 2
General
Revisiting the game after10 years and wow it's bad TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) The New Patch Killed Mech! Ladder Impersonation (only maybe)
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Tenacious Turtle Tussle
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More
Brood War
General
BW caster Sayle Map with fog of war removed for one player? BW General Discussion Pros React To: BarrackS + FlaSh Coaching vs SnOw After 20 seasons we have a lot of great maps
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal B [ASL20] Semifinal A SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Relatively freeroll strategies Current Meta BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Siegecraft - a new perspective
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Men's Fashion Thread Sex and weight loss
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Inbreeding: Why Do We Do It…
Peanutsc
From Tilt to Ragequit:The Ps…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 896 users

Heart Of The Swarm: The Pro's Opinions - Page 15

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 13 14 15 16 17 34 Next All
CP-Jun
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Australia278 Posts
December 03 2011 20:16 GMT
#281
On December 04 2011 05:12 aTnClouD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2011 05:09 mbr2321 wrote:
On December 04 2011 05:04 aTnClouD wrote:
On December 04 2011 05:00 Darksteel wrote:
On December 04 2011 04:39 aTnClouD wrote:
On December 04 2011 04:36 MichaelJLowell wrote:
What is your purpose in playing a video game that you clearly do not like?

I like competing, I like traveling, I like knowing new people and I like the idea of making money out of it. I'm not the only one.


So you like the positive sides of easy progamer life, but are unhappy about the game itself. You complain about the pathfinding and too powerfull aoe spells when almost no one splits their units effectively in combat. Only pro I've seen do it semi-regular is Puma when pre-emptively dodging storms and setting up flanks. You complain about spellcasters, when efficient spellcaster usage brings more ways to shine to the game. HotS doesn't bring any more AoE spells to the game, but it brings more ways to play better.

So all I have to say is that maybe you should appreciate your welfare and think positive about the game that enables you to compete, travel, get to know new people and make money.


What I think of the game and what I make out of it are two things that have no direct relation. I can think what I want of SC2 and still practice a lot, get better and have better results. I will practice like crazy in HotS unlike I did for WoL and I am sure I will have good results, but from what I've seen so far of that expansion I won't like it and I just said so. You say I should be grateful to the game itself (?!?) because it allows me to do what I like. This makes no sense.


At this point I just don't understand. Why would you be a professional gamer if you don't enjoy the game? I understand that the best in the world can make a LOT of money, but there can only be a handful of people who win the GSL, and even then, there are still a lot easier ways to make more money.

I answered above to the exact same question. And honestly the source of my complaint is not the fact I don't like SC2. I think SC2 is a great game better than most RTS out there hands down. Problem is SCBW was just on another level and what makes me sad is that SC2 is just a huge delusion compared to its predecessor. This expansion is not going to make things better and that's why my opinion is negative. If there was no SCBW in the first place as a term of comparison I am pretty sure everybody would love SC2 even more.


Being a Korean and grew up watching BW. I agree with you, the thing that made BW an awesome game is that game developers didn't make units for a specific purpose (like Oracle = harrase). Players could change the units completely and they did something that Blizzard never expected and intended (this can be seen from many interviews). However there will be another expansion and we never know how they will fix HOTS, and maybe in 10 years time like BW - SC2 maybe could replace BW totally
SlayerS_Min's Translator I Voluntary translator for the community I Commentator during Min's stream I Own channel coming soon
HeavenResign
Profile Joined April 2011
United States702 Posts
December 03 2011 20:16 GMT
#282
At this point I'd almost rather have blizzard spend Heart of the Swarm changing design issues (unit clumping, warpgate, etc.) and save Legacy of the Void to add new units. Of course, I know that will never ever happen. I love SC2 but I'm not sure if it will last as long as Brood War or not.
SeaSwift
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Scotland4486 Posts
December 03 2011 20:17 GMT
#283
On December 04 2011 05:12 aTnClouD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2011 05:09 mbr2321 wrote:
On December 04 2011 05:04 aTnClouD wrote:
On December 04 2011 05:00 Darksteel wrote:
On December 04 2011 04:39 aTnClouD wrote:
On December 04 2011 04:36 MichaelJLowell wrote:
What is your purpose in playing a video game that you clearly do not like?

I like competing, I like traveling, I like knowing new people and I like the idea of making money out of it. I'm not the only one.


So you like the positive sides of easy progamer life, but are unhappy about the game itself. You complain about the pathfinding and too powerfull aoe spells when almost no one splits their units effectively in combat. Only pro I've seen do it semi-regular is Puma when pre-emptively dodging storms and setting up flanks. You complain about spellcasters, when efficient spellcaster usage brings more ways to shine to the game. HotS doesn't bring any more AoE spells to the game, but it brings more ways to play better.

So all I have to say is that maybe you should appreciate your welfare and think positive about the game that enables you to compete, travel, get to know new people and make money.


What I think of the game and what I make out of it are two things that have no direct relation. I can think what I want of SC2 and still practice a lot, get better and have better results. I will practice like crazy in HotS unlike I did for WoL and I am sure I will have good results, but from what I've seen so far of that expansion I won't like it and I just said so. You say I should be grateful to the game itself (?!?) because it allows me to do what I like. This makes no sense.


At this point I just don't understand. Why would you be a professional gamer if you don't enjoy the game? I understand that the best in the world can make a LOT of money, but there can only be a handful of people who win the GSL, and even then, there are still a lot easier ways to make more money.

I answered above to the exact same question. And honestly the source of my complaint is not the fact I don't like SC2. I think SC2 is a great game better than most RTS out there hands down. Problem is SCBW was just on another level and what makes me sad is that SC2 is just a huge delusion compared to its predecessor. This expansion is not going to make things better and that's why my opinion is negative. If there was no SCBW in the first place as a term of comparison I am pretty sure everybody would love SC2 even more.


I'm not going to attack you for your opinion. I just think it's quite sad (like, depressing, not like nerdy/lonely/whatever) that a pro player doesn't prefer the game he plays because this new game is more popular than the old one.

I hope that HotS is really good, contrary to your beliefs, not just for me and my enjoyment, but so that people can feel it has lived up to BW's legacy.

On December 04 2011 05:12 Sandro wrote:
Why are we taking a guy whos racist opinions seriously?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11552711


He was obviously trolling, douchebag. He even links to his post in which he explains he was trolling later in that thread.

User was warned for this post
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-03 20:21:41
December 03 2011 20:19 GMT
#284
Like I said before, we don't see many of the bigger names flying out on the night of anymore. They are planning out their schedules well in advance now. It isn't as big an issue as others would led you to believe.

I used to fly all over the place as well. The first few months were brutal, but then I got used to it.

The format between the GSL and the OSL isn't really different at all. You cannot really train for specific opponents in the PL anymore either. All you can do is train for the specific map that your coach is going to send you out on.

The volatile nature rests in the total package. Right now it's incomplete.

*

As for MJL,

I'll take honest answers over bullshit ones any day of the week.

How a player looks at the game can be different from how they play it.

*

SS,

SC2 would have been more popular regardless.
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
December 03 2011 20:20 GMT
#285
Do you people hate everything about HOTS? The two Zerg units look promising and helps fill missing roles in the current Zerg army. We can all agree that the new Zerg units are great, right?
MMA: The true King of Wings
Tortious_Tortoise
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States944 Posts
December 03 2011 20:20 GMT
#286
On December 04 2011 05:15 dignitas.merz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2011 05:09 mbr2321 wrote:
On December 04 2011 05:04 aTnClouD wrote:
On December 04 2011 05:00 Darksteel wrote:
On December 04 2011 04:39 aTnClouD wrote:
On December 04 2011 04:36 MichaelJLowell wrote:
What is your purpose in playing a video game that you clearly do not like?

I like competing, I like traveling, I like knowing new people and I like the idea of making money out of it. I'm not the only one.


So you like the positive sides of easy progamer life, but are unhappy about the game itself. You complain about the pathfinding and too powerfull aoe spells when almost no one splits their units effectively in combat. Only pro I've seen do it semi-regular is Puma when pre-emptively dodging storms and setting up flanks. You complain about spellcasters, when efficient spellcaster usage brings more ways to shine to the game. HotS doesn't bring any more AoE spells to the game, but it brings more ways to play better.

So all I have to say is that maybe you should appreciate your welfare and think positive about the game that enables you to compete, travel, get to know new people and make money.


What I think of the game and what I make out of it are two things that have no direct relation. I can think what I want of SC2 and still practice a lot, get better and have better results. I will practice like crazy in HotS unlike I did for WoL and I am sure I will have good results, but from what I've seen so far of that expansion I won't like it and I just said so. You say I should be grateful to the game itself (?!?) because it allows me to do what I like. This makes no sense.


At this point I just don't understand. Why would you be a professional gamer if you don't enjoy the game? I understand that the best in the world can make a LOT of money, but there can only be a handful of people who win the GSL, and even then, there are still a lot easier ways to make more money.


Not being satisfied about the current state of the game means you should quit? Everyone of us wants this game to be as perfect as it can be. The game is still not an entire coinflip, it's just pretty volatile at the moment. I don't think there's any progamer out there that feels the game is right where it needs to be, but we've seen improvements and it's still a great game. But when we see something that's wrong with it we should be able to complain, no?


I suppose I should clarify. I was under the impression that Cloud didn't like the game, and was only playing because he was good at it. It was never made clear to me that his problems were with the current state of StarCraft II, not with the video-game itself.
Treating eSports as a social science since 2011; Credo: "The system is never wrong"-- Day9 Daily #400 Part 3
flanksteak
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada246 Posts
December 03 2011 20:23 GMT
#287
On December 04 2011 05:12 Sandro wrote:
Why are we taking a guy whos racist opinions seriously?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11552711


He already apologized in another post and clarified his position. In any case, being a "racist" (which I don't think he actually is) is a separate and unrelated issue from his ability to judge the game.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
December 03 2011 20:23 GMT
#288
CryingPoo SC2 isn't supposed to replace anything-- it's supposed to be able to stand on it's own.
emc
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3088 Posts
December 03 2011 20:26 GMT
#289
not surprising hearing clouds opinion on this, he was totally QQ'ing in the terran UP thread.

Seems like all of their answers are something we could've just guessed on our own, the game needs to be balanced, people are gonna switch, yadda yadda.

I thank you for taking the time to interview these players
BatesC
Profile Joined June 2011
United States175 Posts
December 03 2011 20:28 GMT
#290
if bad players can do so well then why hasn't cloud had decent results

CP-Jun
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Australia278 Posts
December 03 2011 20:31 GMT
#291
On December 04 2011 05:23 StarStruck wrote:
CryingPoo SC2 isn't supposed to replace anything-- it's supposed to be able to stand on it's own.


I know however the reality in Korean e-sports scene is quite different. They see them both as substitutes to each other.
SlayerS_Min's Translator I Voluntary translator for the community I Commentator during Min's stream I Own channel coming soon
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
December 03 2011 20:35 GMT
#292
Well your right about that. FXOBoss made mention to this in one of his blog entries as well.

The Koreans haven't embraced SC2 like they have with BW.

Last week the OGN studio had a packed house for most of the PL matches.
CP-Jun
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Australia278 Posts
December 03 2011 20:39 GMT
#293
On December 04 2011 05:35 StarStruck wrote:
Well your right about that. FXOBoss made mention to this in one of his blog entries as well.

The Koreans haven't embraced SC2 like they have with BW.

Last week the OGN studio had a packed house for most of the PL matches.


It is pretty sad, I mean I love both BW and SC2 but Kespa made it bit hard for everyone with all that drama last year.
I think Korea should have Starcraft 2 televised, not just on a cable TV channel - there are rumours that Kespa will embrace SC2 and ongamenet will soon start their own Starcraft 2 league.

More BW background players will likely to make the tournaments more competitive, more researches with units will be done, more strategies and breakouts without a balance patch. Hence the game could become bit more balanced!

As for HOTS - I really don't think people should discuss it seriously as if things that have been revealed will change : )
SlayerS_Min's Translator I Voluntary translator for the community I Commentator during Min's stream I Own channel coming soon
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
December 03 2011 20:41 GMT
#294
On December 04 2011 05:39 CryingPoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2011 05:35 StarStruck wrote:
Well your right about that. FXOBoss made mention to this in one of his blog entries as well.

The Koreans haven't embraced SC2 like they have with BW.

Last week the OGN studio had a packed house for most of the PL matches.


It is pretty sad, I mean I love both BW and SC2 but Kespa made it bit hard for everyone with all that drama last year.
I think Korea should have Starcraft 2 televised, not just on a cable TV channel - there are rumours that Kespa will embrace SC2 and ongamenet will soon start their own Starcraft 2 league.

More BW background players will likely to make the tournaments more competitive, more researches with units will be done, more strategies and breakouts without a balance patch. Hence the game could become bit more balanced!

As for HOTS - I really don't think people should discuss it seriously as if things that have been revealed will change : )


Agreed, it's a hopeless case though. Just have to wait and see. :D
Drowsy
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States4876 Posts
December 03 2011 20:42 GMT
#295
On December 04 2011 05:10 CryingPoo wrote:
Guys, remember how things were introduced in the alpha? then changed heaps in the beta? then the game got released and it changed even more? The given information about HOTS is not definite , it will most likely to change hence there isn't really a point in arguing about HOTS balance.


I really hope you're right about that. Oracle/Replicant are really stupid units and I hope both are changed.
Our Protoss, Who art in Aiur HongUn be Thy name; Thy stalker come, Thy will be blunk, on ladder as it is in Micro Tourny. Give us this win in our daily ladder, and forgive us our cheeses, As we forgive those who play zerg against us.
Mehukannu
Profile Joined October 2010
Finland421 Posts
December 03 2011 21:02 GMT
#296
On December 04 2011 05:20 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Do you people hate everything about HOTS? The two Zerg units look promising and helps fill missing roles in the current Zerg army. We can all agree that the new Zerg units are great, right?

New zerg units definitely are not great or promising. A unit like viper pretty much nullifies all positional play from the game which is essential for both terran and protoss survival in the match up. The whole unit just oozes out BW nostalgia. which is why most people like it, quite frankly it is a defiler that flies.
And the swarm host isn't that spectacular. It just spawns free units to attack your enemy every now and then... I am not really sure what blizzard what it's purpose is in the zerg army other than making it look swarmy without adding anything else to the game.
C=('. ' Q)
Snettik
Profile Joined February 2011
Finland186 Posts
December 03 2011 21:03 GMT
#297
Obviously pros are kinda against HOTS because it makes the game volatile again at least for a while, but blizzard wont make a game that would be played by 200 progamers and nobody else. I think the secret behind SC2 success is that it appeals in both casuals and hc gamers. People actually play SC2 actively instead of only watching it. I think new units and that stuff will bring more casuals and is good for pros in the long run.
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
December 03 2011 21:09 GMT
#298
I've been skeptical about HoTS ever since Blizzcon. But SC2 looks pretty solid at the moment which is one reason why I am glad that HoTS is unlikely to be out until late next year, maybe even later. This means that we have a solid game to play for at least a year where I hope Blizzard minimises the balance patching and lets the game develop in the hands of the players and maybe even the mapmakers. If, as I suspect, HoTS turns SC into a game that I am not willing to play or watch, then it will be time to move on and play other games or do other things with that time formerly spent gaming.
KT best KT ~ 2014
warblob004
Profile Joined January 2011
United States198 Posts
December 03 2011 21:09 GMT
#299
Totally agree with the set role thing - but I guess only time will tell. I'm pretty excited!
"I have not failed; I've simply found 10,000 ways it won't work." ~Thomas Edison
Snettik
Profile Joined February 2011
Finland186 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-03 21:20:49
December 03 2011 21:13 GMT
#300
On December 04 2011 06:02 Mehukannu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2011 05:20 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Do you people hate everything about HOTS? The two Zerg units look promising and helps fill missing roles in the current Zerg army. We can all agree that the new Zerg units are great, right?

New zerg units definitely are not great or promising. A unit like viper pretty much nullifies all positional play from the game which is essential for both terran and protoss survival in the match up. The whole unit just oozes out BW nostalgia. which is why most people like it, quite frankly it is a defiler that flies.
And the swarm host isn't that spectacular. It just spawns free units to attack your enemy every now and then... I am not really sure what blizzard what it's purpose is in the zerg army other than making it look swarmy without adding anything else to the game.

Don't present random theorycrafting and personal opinions as facts. For example idra likes the swarm host and viper sure as hell won't nullify all positional play. What if viper gets sniped by vikings/emp? What if the viper can't get juicy "reverse dark swarms" because of marines/stalkers in front? What if the terran won't keep all his tanks in one clump so a million reverse dark swarms are needed?

EDIT: and about the set role thing... So a game becomes better when you don't plan anything and just make random units? right. I could make an RTS like that with the Star editor. Think about how deep strategy it would have
Prev 1 13 14 15 16 17 34 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 2m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 108
trigger 17
StarCraft: Brood War
Mind 621
Soma 341
PianO 324
EffOrt 254
Tasteless 147
Killer 103
Shinee 75
Aegong 44
Sharp 29
zelot 20
[ Show more ]
IntoTheRainbow 14
Bale 14
Hm[arnc] 12
Zeus 1
Sea 0
Dota 2
XcaliburYe546
BananaSlamJamma510
XaKoH 355
League of Legends
JimRising 626
Reynor40
Counter-Strike
olofmeister643
shoxiejesuss483
Other Games
summit1g6237
singsing862
ceh9438
Happy219
C9.Mang0213
Mew2King70
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL8925
Other Games
gamesdonequick880
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 29
• Light_VIP 21
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1736
• Lourlo436
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
1h 2m
OSC
3h 2m
Wardi Open
1d 2h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Safe House 2
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Safe House 2
3 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.