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On December 04 2011 06:21 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 06:02 Mehukannu wrote:On December 04 2011 05:20 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Do you people hate everything about HOTS? The two Zerg units look promising and helps fill missing roles in the current Zerg army. We can all agree that the new Zerg units are great, right? New zerg units definitely are not great or promising. A unit like viper pretty much nullifies all positional play from the game which is essential for both terran and protoss survival in the match up. The whole unit just oozes out BW nostalgia. which is why most people like it, quite frankly it is a defiler that flies. And the swarm host isn't that spectacular. It just spawns free units to attack your enemy every now and then... I am not really sure what blizzard what it's purpose is in the zerg army other than making it look swarmy without adding anything else to the game. The defiler did not nullify positional play in BW. The swarm host can hold ground/siege bases, a role that the Zerg is missing in WOL.
The swarm host is a stupid unit. Probably the only dumber unit in HOTS is the oracle (what a disgustingly one-dimensional unit). There is no strategical implementation. If you see it you know exactly what is coming.
The units cool factor is that it spawns units sans resources but the mechanics are dumb. It doesn't even take energy to spawn, and you cannot control how much or when you spawn.
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On December 04 2011 10:25 Elefanto wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 10:12 Dirich wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 08:40 aTnClouD wrote:On December 03 2011 08:32 VanGarde wrote:On December 03 2011 07:35 noxn wrote:On December 03 2011 07:12 VanGarde wrote:
No offense to Cloud but it is getting silly how all of the mid tier foreign players are the ones who whine that the game is too random and the skill cap is too low so there is no point in competing. Unless you are beating mvp or nestea in gsl finals arguments like that are completely irrelevant when it comes to actually competing in the game. Seriously stop using how "flawed the game is" to explain away a lack of results. These kinds of comments always only come from the players who play seriously but who are never seen in the top of tournaments. Sure, but I've seen the same thing before in other games. When someone "at the top" complains, then someone will say "if the game is so bad, then how come nestea and mvp have won so many championships? seems pretty consistent/balanced to me". it's a bit of a catch 22. anyway, there's nothing wrong with what cloud said. you don't have to be amongst the top 5 players in the world to have a valid opinion on the game. plus, as someone who came from wow - I can see why he's concerned. Blizzard is known for having killed the competitive aspect of WoW back in wotlk when they added all kinds of new jazz, realized how broken it was half a year later, and failed to balance it. I think you and several others are vastly missing the point, whether it is true or not that sc2 is really random and bad players can get good results by "throwing the dice" is a different question. Still one I would argue against with passion. Clouds statement puts it like he stopped playing because it is not worth it, you don't have to be good to get good results, which is just sulking when you have not gotten the results you want and saying "whatever this game is stupid, you can win stuff with random shit so I am not going to bother playing anymore". And yes your results actually do matter. If any of the very top players were to go out and say that the game is too random, I could lose to anyone because in every game I have to throw a dice then that would be a huge statement. There is a vast difference between saying there is randomness in the game and suggesting that there is no point competing because the game is so random that anyone can win. By giving up on sc2 I just meant I gave up on my hopes for an exciting sequel of SCBW. I didn't give up playing actually I'm playing more than I ever did in the past 2 months. Still, at least from my level of competence, I can see so many worse players winning by making random moves with no logics behind it, even in big tournaments, against players who actually are overall much better and just got unlucky, didn't watch the right screen for a split second cause any aoe in the game is too strong or they simply couldn't scout what was going on so they had to take a game changing blind decision. This happened in SCBW too but to a much, much, much smaller degree, and the fact the game also required to have good mechanics and multitasking allowed the pro scene to weed out many players that couldn't get at the level of the best ones. I am not a pro, but I see a lot of consistency from some players, which points in the direction of a not-so-random game. It may also be that there is a part of randomness due to the fact that the game is still really young and strategies that seem good maybee have really bad points that are not seen at the moment? Anyway, MVP and Nestea are two good example of a consistency that is no in agreement with an exceedling high randomness factor. But I do agree with too much aoe. And I'm speaking from a viewer point of view. Last but not least, a point very dear to me: I can't, for the life of me, understand why everybody that really loved SCBW have to cry out loud how the skillcap was higher before... It's unquestionable that the mechanics in SCBW are harder and to be good at SCBW you have to be better, from the mechanics point of view. But both SCBW and SCII are STRATEGY games. Skill should be defined as strategic and tactical skill. If we only had something to control the game only via the mind, what you define the "skill" needed to be the game would be lower, much lower, as you don't need to train the fingers, but would make the games worst? The entertaining value is the battle of decision, it's not the battle of apm. The better UI in SCII, in respect of a terrible interface for SCBW (12 units in a control group, really? I may be wrong on the number, but it is really small and that's the point), helps move the attention of the player from trying to make every one of his units do something to the more tactical aspect of the game. If I watch a match of SCBW I can be amazed of how the pro can actually make their units do stuff, but only because I know how hard it is when I played the game. This although, is not something understood by any viewer, but only by those who actively play the game, ergo it's not a plus for an esport as ANYONE should be able to understand the value of what's happening in a match. SCBW is great, but I have always felt like the lower mechanics requirement from SCII will allow for more tactical matches. That's why I would be curious to see a SCBW pro show what they can do with all the apm they don't need and their really finely tuned strategic and tactical thinking, for whose they would have more time during the game. It's real-time strategy, that means it's important how fast and quickly you can do things.
Yes, the real-time factor implies multitasking.
The point is that for many it seems that the multitasking aspect of the game is mainly related to what the fingers do, for me it is the multitasking of the mind the one that holds value (try to have only the first one: you have no use for all your apm, in the opposite condition, you are just limited in the way you express your tactical genius).
What I mean by that is: compare a game wher you must have 2 billion finger-apm to just move the units (without any chance to actually think of where you are moving them and why) and a game where you move everything with the mind, which means that you just need like 100 mind-apm to be able to command everything perfectly and a pro thus have a tons of time to think about tactics.
What game do you think will hold the most entertaining value for a public of people that doens't really care to be amazed at the agility of the fingers of the pros? When you hear a good piano-player, you are amazed at his finger skills for a good minute, then all you really care (on average) is the musical value of what he is producing.
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On December 04 2011 10:30 Divergence wrote:Does anyone know if they're trying to suggest a 2012 release date with the opening line I'm hoping they wait until at least 2013 to release it. I like WoL the way it is currently. A release date hasn't been announced right?
"It’s too early to talk about a specific release date at this point in time. As with all Blizzard games, our ultimate goal is to provide the best possible experience for our players, and we will take as much time as is needed to ensure that Heart of the Swarm meets the expectations of our players, as well as our own high standards."
Source: Heart of the Swarm FAQ
So basically, soon™.
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On December 04 2011 10:30 Divergence wrote:Does anyone know if they're trying to suggest a 2012 release date with the opening line I'm hoping they wait until at least 2013 to release it. I like WoL the way it is currently. A release date hasn't been announced right?
Probably beta of all things.
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On December 04 2011 10:34 Hypatio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 06:21 SarcasmMonster wrote:On December 04 2011 06:02 Mehukannu wrote:On December 04 2011 05:20 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Do you people hate everything about HOTS? The two Zerg units look promising and helps fill missing roles in the current Zerg army. We can all agree that the new Zerg units are great, right? New zerg units definitely are not great or promising. A unit like viper pretty much nullifies all positional play from the game which is essential for both terran and protoss survival in the match up. The whole unit just oozes out BW nostalgia. which is why most people like it, quite frankly it is a defiler that flies. And the swarm host isn't that spectacular. It just spawns free units to attack your enemy every now and then... I am not really sure what blizzard what it's purpose is in the zerg army other than making it look swarmy without adding anything else to the game. The defiler did not nullify positional play in BW. The swarm host can hold ground/siege bases, a role that the Zerg is missing in WOL. The swarm host is a stupid unit. Probably the only dumber unit in HOTS is the oracle (what a disgustingly one-dimensional unit). There is no strategical implementation. If you see it you know exactly what is coming. The units cool factor is that it spawns units sans resources but the mechanics are dumb. It doesn't even take energy to spawn, and you cannot control how much or when you spawn.
Isn't that the case for any unit?
I don't know why it needs energy. It spawns timed-units and the spawns attack substitutes the sparm host's attack. It just deals DPS a bit differently, somewhat comparable to the broodlord.
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On December 03 2011 12:30 RavenLoud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 12:25 Oradri wrote:
A new expansion so soon ... idk just seems to fast. BW released like 8 months after vanilla. Shows how much harder it is to make a game today.
Not really, they just dump more money into them. You can rush a game out pretty easily if you dont change things as much
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On December 03 2011 07:25 Shadowsleep wrote:
The last picture is really interesting with the collousus. Different attack or something.
Pretty sure that's the super thor attacking - not the colossus
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mmm i like how everyone compares the viper to the defiler, while its skill is actually that of the corsair just in a weaker form, also funny that people so hate on "micro killer skills", only because of its range 11 i consider fungal a micro killer since almost no unit outrange the skill and even that is debatable. Skills like force field force alot of micro to negate its effect.
Disruption web Zerg version, actually forces a reaction (which is micro ;o). I hope they make it a ground based aoe and no aoe debuff (staying on the unit even if it moves out).
Damn everytime people talk about the viper, i see those mass corsairs versus mass hydras, and then disruption web everywhere and 2 shuttles drop 4 reavers and thy straight out kill all the hydras, because of so many disruption webs. Just never let those corsairs survive the the dt aggression >.< .
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On December 04 2011 10:53 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 10:34 Hypatio wrote:On December 04 2011 06:21 SarcasmMonster wrote:On December 04 2011 06:02 Mehukannu wrote:On December 04 2011 05:20 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Do you people hate everything about HOTS? The two Zerg units look promising and helps fill missing roles in the current Zerg army. We can all agree that the new Zerg units are great, right? New zerg units definitely are not great or promising. A unit like viper pretty much nullifies all positional play from the game which is essential for both terran and protoss survival in the match up. The whole unit just oozes out BW nostalgia. which is why most people like it, quite frankly it is a defiler that flies. And the swarm host isn't that spectacular. It just spawns free units to attack your enemy every now and then... I am not really sure what blizzard what it's purpose is in the zerg army other than making it look swarmy without adding anything else to the game. The defiler did not nullify positional play in BW. The swarm host can hold ground/siege bases, a role that the Zerg is missing in WOL. The swarm host is a stupid unit. Probably the only dumber unit in HOTS is the oracle (what a disgustingly one-dimensional unit). There is no strategical implementation. If you see it you know exactly what is coming. The units cool factor is that it spawns units sans resources but the mechanics are dumb. It doesn't even take energy to spawn, and you cannot control how much or when you spawn. Isn't that the case for any unit? I don't know why it needs energy. It spawns timed-units and the spawns attack substitutes the sparm host's attack. It just deals DPS a bit differently, somewhat comparable to the broodlord.
Having played with it in the most accurate UMS map, I have a lurking feeling it it won't be used in competitive play. Sure, you can use it to give splash on to enemies or as a gaurd for mineral lines, but its nowhere close to being mobile enough to supplement the current zerg swarm.
The viper I am honestly completely excited about, nothing was more exciting then watching zerg flanks in conjunction with dark swarm. It'll hopefully introduce a lot more pre-engagement micro games, the little pull outs we've been seeing like ghosts walking out of the army to kill a templar, or stalkers countering the ghosts. I am worried infestors will still be the choice caster, considering the nullify enemy micro and deal damage, where viper can be dodged out of and is nowhere near as useful as the dark swarm was.
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On December 04 2011 11:03 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 12:30 RavenLoud wrote:On December 03 2011 12:25 Oradri wrote:
A new expansion so soon ... idk just seems to fast. BW released like 8 months after vanilla. Shows how much harder it is to make a game today. Not really, they just dump more money into them. You can rush a game out pretty easily if you dont change things as much
Well...if they have to dump more money into them, it's probably because it cost a lot more and require much more work. That's the "harder" I was going for, not for how hard it is to come up with ideas. 
I know SC1 had been in development for a freakishly long time too, for the expansion it seemed that Blizzard went really straight forward with it though. I wonder if that's more luck or a real stroke of genius
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On December 04 2011 05:12 aTnClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 05:09 mbr2321 wrote:On December 04 2011 05:04 aTnClouD wrote:On December 04 2011 05:00 Darksteel wrote:On December 04 2011 04:39 aTnClouD wrote:On December 04 2011 04:36 MichaelJLowell wrote:
What is your purpose in playing a video game that you clearly do not like? I like competing, I like traveling, I like knowing new people and I like the idea of making money out of it. I'm not the only one. So you like the positive sides of easy progamer life, but are unhappy about the game itself. You complain about the pathfinding and too powerfull aoe spells when almost no one splits their units effectively in combat. Only pro I've seen do it semi-regular is Puma when pre-emptively dodging storms and setting up flanks. You complain about spellcasters, when efficient spellcaster usage brings more ways to shine to the game. HotS doesn't bring any more AoE spells to the game, but it brings more ways to play better. So all I have to say is that maybe you should appreciate your welfare and think positive about the game that enables you to compete, travel, get to know new people and make money. What I think of the game and what I make out of it are two things that have no direct relation. I can think what I want of SC2 and still practice a lot, get better and have better results. I will practice like crazy in HotS unlike I did for WoL and I am sure I will have good results, but from what I've seen so far of that expansion I won't like it and I just said so. You say I should be grateful to the game itself (?!?) because it allows me to do what I like. This makes no sense. At this point I just don't understand. Why would you be a professional gamer if you don't enjoy the game? I understand that the best in the world can make a LOT of money, but there can only be a handful of people who win the GSL, and even then, there are still a lot easier ways to make more money. I answered above to the exact same question. And honestly the source of my complaint is not the fact I don't like SC2. I think SC2 is a great game better than most RTS out there hands down. Problem is SCBW was just on another level and what makes me sad is that SC2 is just a huge delusion compared to its predecessor. This expansion is not going to make things better and that's why my opinion is negative. If there was no SCBW in the first place as a term of comparison I am pretty sure everybody would love SC2 even more.
+ respect for cloud
Saying things like they are, without caring what others believe. There are so many glaring flaws in SC2, its not even funny. Half the matchups are coinflips and Blizzard is making no attempt at fixing them. Like I always say, if we the community had not complained about 1 supply roaches and 70 damage siege tanks this game would be just another shitty RTS that nobody will remember.
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On December 03 2011 07:25 Shadowsleep wrote:
The last picture is really interesting with the collousus. Different attack or something.
2 different types look again
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On December 04 2011 15:53 Jrocker152 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 07:25 Shadowsleep wrote:
The last picture is really interesting with the collousus. Different attack or something.
2 different types look again
From what I understand the weird colossus is either dying while firing a shot or a new type of unit o.o
The other colossus up north is a normal one.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On December 04 2011 04:46 MichaelJLowell wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 04:41 StarStruck wrote:
BTW Cloud is spot on about Sean. Promoting the game has become his job and you will always see him take a step back before he answers any touchy subject. Not the first time I say this either. Sean's a master at self-editing himself. It's smart on his part to take all the time in the world to construct his answers to such controversial things. Too bad "Sean Plott carefully chooses his words in order to protect his paycheck" has absolutely no bearing on the issue of whether or not video game skill denotes the ability to understand and articulate issues in game design, a question that everyone seems terrified to answer.
Yes, but as Sean is both a former top player and someone famliar with design in general, I think we're okay. Sean makes subtle but unmistakable hints in his dailies.
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On December 04 2011 16:37 RavenLoud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:53 Jrocker152 wrote:On December 03 2011 07:25 Shadowsleep wrote:
The last picture is really interesting with the collousus. Different attack or something.
2 different types look again From what I understand the weird colossus is either dying while firing a shot or a new type of unit o.o The other colossus up north is a normal one. + Show Spoiler +
It's a photo from the Wings of Liberty alpha. Shouldn't really be in that article.
The two colossus are the same, it's just that one of them is located slightly under the camera, so the legs look a bit funky. The single shot thing is from the alpha, along with the super-huge thors. Can't be the HotS thor, because there are two of them.
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On December 03 2011 15:35 InvXXVII wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 13:49 Goldfish wrote:
The Warhound for example might as well be a Goliath with splash damage.
Tempest might as well be a bigger Corsair with ground attack.
IDK about others but I really want the Corsair back instead of Tempest >.>. Well about the bugs and the BW units, Dustin Browder made it very clear that they were not trying to remake BW. "If you want BW, go play BW" (That was what he said). Having said that, I gotta agree with ClouD. New units will require a lot of balancing. And as if this wasn't hard enough, most of the units have very specific goals. I fear that the fact of having so many spellcasters in the game will make the game too micro oriented and less strategy/understanding-the-AI oriented. It's like moving away from Starcraft towards Warcraft.
There's a huge difference between being a carbon copy of BW and being a great sequel to an RTS that is similar but still different enough. (Also there is a difference between using what made BW great and applying it to the sequel vs just remaking the game exactly the same with better graphics. Though in this post I'll be talking about units rather than BW vs SC2, the Corsair is just an example since it's already been designed and can be used as reference.)
(Also Browder was also talking more along the mechanics (things like units clumping) rather than the units.)
Adding the Corsair into SC2 instead of the Tempest (for example) in no way makes it BW (well besides having similar units but hey the game already has the same three races as BW).
Also it's not taking a Goliath (for example) and giving it splash damage but calling it a Warhound does not make it a Goliath with splash damage.
Finally he was already open to the idea of the Warhound being just a Goliath with AA splash damage but just wasn't sure since it felt like a cop out to the players for reusing an existing unit, "not" because "if you want to play BW go play BW".
That's the thing though - I don't think it's a cop out if it fits into play perfectly. (Also there isn't even an existing "official" SC2 Corsair model >.>.)
So overall - Corsair needs to be brought back plox. David Kim or Dustin Browder are you reading >.>? Corsair can have more fancy game play mechanics than what seems to be attack-move Tempest.
Corsair and Phoenix can be the same thing. Just make Corsair require Dark Shrine or something (with Corsair upgrades being on DS) to synergize with Dark Templar.
Edit - The reason why I want the Corsair so much is because it would probably be better than the Tempest. I want SC2 to improve as a game. Just because the Corsair is a BW unit doesn't mean I want SC2 to become BW.
For example I wouldn't argue for the Lurker instead of the Swarm Host because the Swarm Host is not really that similar to the Lurker at all. They serve different roles. Also while the Swarm Host is boring to use for the player, it is not for the enemy (the enemy has to know how to defend against it) which makes it a good unit IMO (at least compared to "a-move" units).
The Swarm Host is an interesting unit on it's own.
However with the Tempest it's different.The Tempest so far seems like a lackluster unit because there's not that much micro potential or fancy stuff you do using it or against it that is any different from any other generic unit.
It's just another capital ship that's even less micro intensive than the Carrier. The Corsair being a spell caster + anti air specialist is a good alternative IMO and it can easily coexist with the Phoenix.
If it weren't for the fact that they replaced the Carrier with The Tempest (an AA splash damage dealer), I would have not be arguing for Corsair at all in this case. Since Blizzard did decide to want to add the Tempest in (mainly for anti air), I argue the Corsair has a lot more potential to be a better unit than the Tempest.
One last thing - It doesn't even have to be the Corsair but just something else (Again Corsair was chosen because it already exists and is easy to reference). Right now I think the Tempest is lacking as a good unit. Again it's simply an a-move unit with no fancy stuff. There's no unique ways to use the Tempest or to play against the Tempest as say with (for example) the Swarm Host or the Oracle.
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On December 04 2011 17:13 Slivered Skin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 16:37 RavenLoud wrote:On December 04 2011 15:53 Jrocker152 wrote:On December 03 2011 07:25 Shadowsleep wrote:
The last picture is really interesting with the collousus. Different attack or something.
2 different types look again From what I understand the weird colossus is either dying while firing a shot or a new type of unit o.o The other colossus up north is a normal one. + Show Spoiler + It's a photo from the Wings of Liberty alpha. Shouldn't really be in that article. The two colossus are the same, it's just that one of them is located slightly under the camera, so the legs look a bit funky. The single shot thing is from the alpha, along with the super-huge thors. Can't be the HotS thor, because there are two of them.
Ah thanks, was wondering why there are 2 thors too.
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On December 04 2011 07:48 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 07:35 Mehukannu wrote:On December 04 2011 06:13 Snettik wrote:On December 04 2011 06:02 Mehukannu wrote:On December 04 2011 05:20 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Do you people hate everything about HOTS? The two Zerg units look promising and helps fill missing roles in the current Zerg army. We can all agree that the new Zerg units are great, right? New zerg units definitely are not great or promising. A unit like viper pretty much nullifies all positional play from the game which is essential for both terran and protoss survival in the match up. The whole unit just oozes out BW nostalgia. which is why most people like it, quite frankly it is a defiler that flies. And the swarm host isn't that spectacular. It just spawns free units to attack your enemy every now and then... I am not really sure what blizzard what it's purpose is in the zerg army other than making it look swarmy without adding anything else to the game. Don't present random theorycrafting and personal opinions as facts. For example idra likes the swarm host and viper sure as hell won't nullify all positional play. What if viper gets sniped by vikings/emp? What if the viper can't get juicy "reverse dark swarms" because of marines/stalkers in front? What if the terran won't keep all his tanks in one clump so a million reverse dark swarms are needed? EDIT: and about the set role thing... So a game becomes better when you don't plan anything and just make random units? right. I could make an RTS like that with the Star editor. Think about how deep strategy it would have I don't see how there can be other way to talk about the new HotS units than theorycrafting about them and didn't blizzard want to hear the communities opinion about the new units that might or might not get added to the HotS release. Funny that you start theroycrafting about scenarios where player skill is involved, which pretty much means that the counter argument might as well be not getting your viper sniped/emp or how about go around the marines/stalkers. Honestly I ain't holding my breath for any of the ''might get add units'' for the HotS. And your edit just confuses me... since I don't know where I was implying that the game becomes better when you just make random stuff. o.O On December 04 2011 06:21 SarcasmMonster wrote:On December 04 2011 06:02 Mehukannu wrote:On December 04 2011 05:20 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Do you people hate everything about HOTS? The two Zerg units look promising and helps fill missing roles in the current Zerg army. We can all agree that the new Zerg units are great, right? New zerg units definitely are not great or promising. A unit like viper pretty much nullifies all positional play from the game which is essential for both terran and protoss survival in the match up. The whole unit just oozes out BW nostalgia. which is why most people like it, quite frankly it is a defiler that flies. And the swarm host isn't that spectacular. It just spawns free units to attack your enemy every now and then... I am not really sure what blizzard what it's purpose is in the zerg army other than making it look swarmy without adding anything else to the game. The defiler did not nullify positional play in BW. The swarm host can hold ground/siege bases, a role that the Zerg is missing in WOL. Defiler =/= Viper, but only reason why viper is seen as defiler comeback is because it has ''reverse dark swarm''. That is just what is see weird about the swarm host, it role is to be a ground siege unit, but I don't see how it can hold ground or siege bases that well since it can't be a threat constantly, because when the first wave of swarmlings are killed the swarm hosts become vulnerable to a counter attack because they don't have any other form of attack to protect themselves. The swarm host forces your opponent to react. If they don't, then they'll be slowly widdled away. Of course they will be counter-attacked if you have insufficient support units, that's a given. Blizzard can tweak the cooldown of the locusts if it is too slow. If you can draw out your opponent because they need to deal with the swarm hosts, then you can surround with positional advantage.
If you already got your opponent holed up on his base. Chances are that you most likely didn't even need to make swarm hosts to keep him in the base. Instead you could start going for broodlords and possibly finish the opponent off.
The problem I also see in the unit is that you either have so low count of them that it doesn't do anything or you need to have too much of them to actually be a threat meaning that you need to use most of the supply to that one unit leaving you vulnerable to banshees for example. There really isn't any middle ground for the unit where it would be a threat in relatively small-moderate numbers, but then it would mean that it might become too good if you go past that x amount of swarm hosts. It can't even support the zerg army in an battle because the spawned units get stuck behind other zerg units and it most likely gets out one round of units out seeing how fast the battles end in SC2. It is very weird that a swarm host needs to have an army to support it while siege units should be the one to support the army.
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On December 04 2011 18:34 Mehukannu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 07:48 SarcasmMonster wrote:On December 04 2011 07:35 Mehukannu wrote:On December 04 2011 06:13 Snettik wrote:On December 04 2011 06:02 Mehukannu wrote:On December 04 2011 05:20 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Do you people hate everything about HOTS? The two Zerg units look promising and helps fill missing roles in the current Zerg army. We can all agree that the new Zerg units are great, right? New zerg units definitely are not great or promising. A unit like viper pretty much nullifies all positional play from the game which is essential for both terran and protoss survival in the match up. The whole unit just oozes out BW nostalgia. which is why most people like it, quite frankly it is a defiler that flies. And the swarm host isn't that spectacular. It just spawns free units to attack your enemy every now and then... I am not really sure what blizzard what it's purpose is in the zerg army other than making it look swarmy without adding anything else to the game. Don't present random theorycrafting and personal opinions as facts. For example idra likes the swarm host and viper sure as hell won't nullify all positional play. What if viper gets sniped by vikings/emp? What if the viper can't get juicy "reverse dark swarms" because of marines/stalkers in front? What if the terran won't keep all his tanks in one clump so a million reverse dark swarms are needed? EDIT: and about the set role thing... So a game becomes better when you don't plan anything and just make random units? right. I could make an RTS like that with the Star editor. Think about how deep strategy it would have I don't see how there can be other way to talk about the new HotS units than theorycrafting about them and didn't blizzard want to hear the communities opinion about the new units that might or might not get added to the HotS release. Funny that you start theroycrafting about scenarios where player skill is involved, which pretty much means that the counter argument might as well be not getting your viper sniped/emp or how about go around the marines/stalkers. Honestly I ain't holding my breath for any of the ''might get add units'' for the HotS. And your edit just confuses me... since I don't know where I was implying that the game becomes better when you just make random stuff. o.O On December 04 2011 06:21 SarcasmMonster wrote:On December 04 2011 06:02 Mehukannu wrote:On December 04 2011 05:20 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Do you people hate everything about HOTS? The two Zerg units look promising and helps fill missing roles in the current Zerg army. We can all agree that the new Zerg units are great, right? New zerg units definitely are not great or promising. A unit like viper pretty much nullifies all positional play from the game which is essential for both terran and protoss survival in the match up. The whole unit just oozes out BW nostalgia. which is why most people like it, quite frankly it is a defiler that flies. And the swarm host isn't that spectacular. It just spawns free units to attack your enemy every now and then... I am not really sure what blizzard what it's purpose is in the zerg army other than making it look swarmy without adding anything else to the game. The defiler did not nullify positional play in BW. The swarm host can hold ground/siege bases, a role that the Zerg is missing in WOL. Defiler =/= Viper, but only reason why viper is seen as defiler comeback is because it has ''reverse dark swarm''. That is just what is see weird about the swarm host, it role is to be a ground siege unit, but I don't see how it can hold ground or siege bases that well since it can't be a threat constantly, because when the first wave of swarmlings are killed the swarm hosts become vulnerable to a counter attack because they don't have any other form of attack to protect themselves. The swarm host forces your opponent to react. If they don't, then they'll be slowly widdled away. Of course they will be counter-attacked if you have insufficient support units, that's a given. Blizzard can tweak the cooldown of the locusts if it is too slow. If you can draw out your opponent because they need to deal with the swarm hosts, then you can surround with positional advantage. If you already got your opponent holed up on his base. Chances are that you most likely didn't even need to make swarm hosts to keep him in the base. Instead you could start going for broodlords and possibly finish the opponent off. The problem I also see in the unit is that you either have so low count of them that it doesn't do anything or you need to have too much of them to actually be a threat meaning that you need to use most of the supply to that one unit leaving you vulnerable to banshees for example. There really isn't any middle ground for the unit where it would be a threat in relatively small-moderate numbers, but then it would mean that it might become too good if you go past that x amount of swarm hosts. It can't even support the zerg army in an battle because the spawned units get stuck behind other zerg units and it most likely gets out one round of units out seeing how fast the battles end in SC2. It is very weird that a swarm host needs to have an army to support it while siege units should be the one to support the army.
Dropped Swarm Hosts? Although I can't remember if they actually get cloaked when burrowed or not.
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Cloud: 'I think the expansion will be a mess and blizzard won't be able to balance and control what they are about to do. I have very little expectations and I gave up on sc2 since it seems so many bad players can have decent results by just abusing the gamble aspect of this game.'
Could not agree with this more.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.team-dignitas.net/uploads/tinymce/images/hos3.jpg)
