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On December 01 2011 04:08 Juanald wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 19:42 secretary bird wrote:
If you dont have 300 apm and much time to play, dont play terran and switch to Protoss. The casters have done it and with good reason. You should do the same. Oh pls, keeping your zealots in front of your collosus while landing forcefields takes as much micro as any other races main unit compasition. Give it a try some time and see if you dont come to the same conclusion i did. Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 15:51 OSM.OneManArmy wrote:On November 30 2011 10:25 Juanald wrote:
I think if there really was a balance problem youd find community leaders like STOG and ITG would hahve discussed it, protoss have just been practicing for months and have finally started to break even thanks to our brilliant protoss heros. im really saddened to see the top foreign terrans balance whine (jinro drewbie avilo) i expected more tbh imho. There aren't any terrans on SOTG? Demuslim was on it once i think but otherwise there's 3 protoss's (tyler incontrol artosis) and IdrA. thats just nonsense about no terrans on the SOTG. JT McDaniel is terran, Artosis is protoss now but was a terran in stacraft bloodwar and Day9 is random/terran... Also painuser is a terran host on ItG.
Is JP a pro? What obviously day9 is "terran" if he plays random, he doesn't ladder frequently and doesn't have any terran bias however. Did i say ITG btw? And Painuser isn't a pro anymore.
Keeping zealots in front is not "hardcore micro" buddy. Please, are you serious?
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I too am high Diamond and have been having trouble maintaining a steady winrate v. high diamond - up to mid masters protoss. I've come to the point where my main build is 1 rax FE + 3 naked racks added before 27 supply. This allows me to fill 4-5 bunkers at the front (SCVs pulled to repair when pressure comes) which, when scouted, prompts the toss to either expand and macro or do a warp prism drop. I rally about half my marines into my bunkers and half in patrol move around the perimeter of my base in case of warp prisms (which is quite often the case) . In rare cases I can unload my bunkers and take my patrolling marines to do a sort of 6:30 or 7 minute timing with an absurd number of marines, in this case the toss usually loses quite a bit around his natural.
This usually wards off everything but 3gate robo. I add on all 4 gasses at 40 and go double ups from there and comp depends on scouting. It's not totally standard, but I've found that it works for the most part. The only issue is, to get ahead of the toss in macro you have to drop a lot because usually timing attacks don't work unless you're maxed with a LOT of ghosts (just my experience so far).
I suffered a, maybe, 20% win rate versus protoss until I used this specific strategy, and I agree that the matchup at the high diamond/low masters level is skewed towards Protoss. However I feel that there may be a strat or two out there that a high diamond can comfortably execute that secures the same economic and army lead the Protoss can achieve through standard early pressure and macro follow up.
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On December 01 2011 10:33 Vintaged wrote:
I too am high Diamond and have been having trouble maintaining a steady winrate v. high diamond - up to mid masters protoss. I've come to the point where my main build is 1 rax FE + 3 naked racks added before 27 supply. This allows me to fill 4-5 bunkers at the front (SCVs pulled to repair when pressure comes) which, when scouted, prompts the toss to either expand and macro or do a warp prism drop. I rally about half my marines into my bunkers and half in patrol move around the perimeter of my base in case of warp prisms (which is quite often the case) . In rare cases I can unload my bunkers and take my patrolling marines to do a sort of 6:30 or 7 minute timing with an absurd number of marines, in this case the toss usually loses quite a bit around his natural.
This usually wards off everything but 3gate robo. I add on all 4 gasses at 40 and go double ups from there and comp depends on scouting. It's not totally standard, but I've found that it works for the most part. The only issue is, to get ahead of the toss in macro you have to drop a lot because usually timing attacks don't work unless you're maxed with a LOT of ghosts (just my experience so far).
I suffered a, maybe, 20% win rate versus protoss until I used this specific strategy, and I agree that the matchup at the high diamond/low masters level is skewed towards Protoss. However I feel that there may be a strat or two out there that a high diamond can comfortably execute that secures the same economic and army lead the Protoss can achieve through standard early pressure and macro follow up.
3 gate robo isnt that bad with a 1 rax fe if u mass enough bunkers and can get stim out. Youll lose alot of workers but youll come out ahead. Then its just a matter of waltzing in with medivacs. But yeah I used to always not react properly, and ever since ive started overreacting they just park themselves outside your ramp and mass expand. Ofcourse dropping while turtling fixed that pretty easy.
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On December 01 2011 10:33 Vintaged wrote:
I too am high Diamond and have been having trouble maintaining a steady winrate v. high diamond - up to mid masters protoss. I've come to the point where my main build is 1 rax FE + 3 naked racks added before 27 supply. This allows me to fill 4-5 bunkers at the front (SCVs pulled to repair when pressure comes) which, when scouted, prompts the toss to either expand and macro or do a warp prism drop. I rally about half my marines into my bunkers and half in patrol move around the perimeter of my base in case of warp prisms (which is quite often the case) . In rare cases I can unload my bunkers and take my patrolling marines to do a sort of 6:30 or 7 minute timing with an absurd number of marines, in this case the toss usually loses quite a bit around his natural.
This usually wards off everything but 3gate robo. I add on all 4 gasses at 40 and go double ups from there and comp depends on scouting. It's not totally standard, but I've found that it works for the most part. The only issue is, to get ahead of the toss in macro you have to drop a lot because usually timing attacks don't work unless you're maxed with a LOT of ghosts (just my experience so far).
I suffered a, maybe, 20% win rate versus protoss until I used this specific strategy, and I agree that the matchup at the high diamond/low masters level is skewed towards Protoss. However I feel that there may be a strat or two out there that a high diamond can comfortably execute that secures the same economic and army lead the Protoss can achieve through standard early pressure and macro follow up.
Congrats on adjusting to metagame shifts. All I really see is players going through the motions of a period of struggle, like Toss and Zerg have had to deal with since release. Can't take you terran whiners seriously anymore since you base your complaints off a minute timeperiod of struggle.
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On December 01 2011 10:57 deadmau wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 10:33 Vintaged wrote:
I too am high Diamond and have been having trouble maintaining a steady winrate v. high diamond - up to mid masters protoss. I've come to the point where my main build is 1 rax FE + 3 naked racks added before 27 supply. This allows me to fill 4-5 bunkers at the front (SCVs pulled to repair when pressure comes) which, when scouted, prompts the toss to either expand and macro or do a warp prism drop. I rally about half my marines into my bunkers and half in patrol move around the perimeter of my base in case of warp prisms (which is quite often the case) . In rare cases I can unload my bunkers and take my patrolling marines to do a sort of 6:30 or 7 minute timing with an absurd number of marines, in this case the toss usually loses quite a bit around his natural.
This usually wards off everything but 3gate robo. I add on all 4 gasses at 40 and go double ups from there and comp depends on scouting. It's not totally standard, but I've found that it works for the most part. The only issue is, to get ahead of the toss in macro you have to drop a lot because usually timing attacks don't work unless you're maxed with a LOT of ghosts (just my experience so far).
I suffered a, maybe, 20% win rate versus protoss until I used this specific strategy, and I agree that the matchup at the high diamond/low masters level is skewed towards Protoss. However I feel that there may be a strat or two out there that a high diamond can comfortably execute that secures the same economic and army lead the Protoss can achieve through standard early pressure and macro follow up. Congrats on adjusting to metagame shifts. All I really see is players going through the motions of a period of struggle, like Toss and Zerg have had to deal with since release. Can't take you terran whiners seriously anymore since you base your complaints off a minute timeperiod of struggle.
congratz on bothering with something you dont feel like you need to take seriously. Theres no shortage of x race whine snarks in the thread. Thanks for the overwhelmingly valuable input though.
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Its not just at diamond level though, alot of Terran pros are having troubles with this matchup too. I was watching Kas' stream earlier and the guy obviously hate Toss, joking with quite a few fellow Terrans about the matchup. And its not just him, apparently Beastyqt also hate the matchup and has whined about it for 4months (according to Kas anyway). And Jinro has stated way back that he has no sympathy for any Protoss.
So its not really a new thing, they just arent really vocal about it since they will all probably get the Korean winrates thrown in their faces, and they arent exactly involved in any shows to propagate their viewpoints.
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It's terran's turn in the rough patch, that's how the meta game shifts.
That's the problem with so many abusing the 1/1/1 for so long. It's completely stiffled their learning in the match-up
Just look at Puma, in a standard macro game he just looked weak compared to Hero because he's simply been doing that build too much.
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What is actually funny is that every fucking ladder Terran claims to have a 30% winrate against Protoss. Given Blizzard system, they have 50% winrate overall. Therefore there exists a race against which they have way over 50% winrate.
- If it's Zerg: Well Zerg is underpowered then? How come they don't complain? Terran easy mode?
- Let's assume now that in fact, they have 50% winrate against Zerg and that TvZ is a balanced matchup. Hence, they have a 70% winrate TvT, maybe even higher because there is less Terran players on ladder.
Conclusion: Every goddamn Terran has over 70% winrate TvT.
Uh...
+ Show Spoiler +Other conclusion: only a handful of Terrans have a problem in TvP, and they whine the loudest and we have threads like these, and anti-Protoss balance whines and shit.
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On December 01 2011 12:03 ZenithM wrote:What is actually funny is that every fucking ladder Terran claims to have a 30% winrate against Protoss. Given Blizzard system, they have 50% winrate overall. Therefore there exists a race against which they have way over 50% winrate. - If it's Zerg: Well Zerg is underpowered then? How come they don't complain? Terran easy mode? - Let's assume now that in fact, they have 50% winrate against Zerg and that TvZ is a balanced matchup. Hence, they have a 70% winrate TvT, maybe even higher because there is less Terran players on ladder. Conclusion: Every goddamn Terran has over 70% winrate TvT. Uh... + Show Spoiler +Other conclusion: only a handful of Terrans have a problem in TvP, and they whine the loudest and we have threads like these, and anti-Protoss balance whines and shit.
Or, they are like me and had a ~36% ratio while playing for the long game and decided the matchup was frustrating and boring to play and started to one-base all in every game. So far my win rate with one base all-ins has been around 80%, and yet my overall winrate vs protoss for this season is currently at 47%.
The matchup is boring, bio is boring, and toss late-game can get ridiculously out of hand if you aren't a top tier player.
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On December 01 2011 12:32 Horseballs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 12:03 ZenithM wrote:What is actually funny is that every fucking ladder Terran claims to have a 30% winrate against Protoss. Given Blizzard system, they have 50% winrate overall. Therefore there exists a race against which they have way over 50% winrate. - If it's Zerg: Well Zerg is underpowered then? How come they don't complain? Terran easy mode? - Let's assume now that in fact, they have 50% winrate against Zerg and that TvZ is a balanced matchup. Hence, they have a 70% winrate TvT, maybe even higher because there is less Terran players on ladder. Conclusion: Every goddamn Terran has over 70% winrate TvT. Uh... + Show Spoiler +Other conclusion: only a handful of Terrans have a problem in TvP, and they whine the loudest and we have threads like these, and anti-Protoss balance whines and shit. Or, they are like me and had a ~36% ratio while playing for the long game and decided the matchup was frustrating and boring to play and started to one-base all in every game. So far my win rate with one base all-ins has been around 80%, and yet my overall winrate vs protoss for this season is currently at 47%. The matchup is boring, bio is boring, and toss late-game can get ridiculously out of hand if you aren't a top tier player.
Well it's not by one base all inning every single game that you will improve your late game, regardless of balance...
But you're right to do it. One base terran all ins are incredibly hard to defend, due to *tada* lack of Protoss defender advantage.
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On December 01 2011 12:03 ZenithM wrote:What is actually funny is that every fucking ladder Terran claims to have a 30% winrate against Protoss. Given Blizzard system, they have 50% winrate overall. Therefore there exists a race against which they have way over 50% winrate. - If it's Zerg: Well Zerg is underpowered then? How come they don't complain? Terran easy mode? - Let's assume now that in fact, they have 50% winrate against Zerg and that TvZ is a balanced matchup. Hence, they have a 70% winrate TvT, maybe even higher because there is less Terran players on ladder. Conclusion: Every goddamn Terran has over 70% winrate TvT. Uh... + Show Spoiler +Other conclusion: only a handful of Terrans have a problem in TvP, and they whine the loudest and we have threads like these, and anti-Protoss balance whines and shit.
ZenithM hit the mark exactly, some pretty egregious winrate claims here that just don't make sense. Can you terrans cut the bullshit now.
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On December 01 2011 12:32 Horseballs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 12:03 ZenithM wrote:What is actually funny is that every fucking ladder Terran claims to have a 30% winrate against Protoss. Given Blizzard system, they have 50% winrate overall. Therefore there exists a race against which they have way over 50% winrate. - If it's Zerg: Well Zerg is underpowered then? How come they don't complain? Terran easy mode? - Let's assume now that in fact, they have 50% winrate against Zerg and that TvZ is a balanced matchup. Hence, they have a 70% winrate TvT, maybe even higher because there is less Terran players on ladder. Conclusion: Every goddamn Terran has over 70% winrate TvT. Uh... + Show Spoiler +Other conclusion: only a handful of Terrans have a problem in TvP, and they whine the loudest and we have threads like these, and anti-Protoss balance whines and shit. Or, they are like me and had a ~36% ratio while playing for the long game and decided the matchup was frustrating and boring to play and started to one-base all in every game. So far my win rate with one base all-ins has been around 80%, and yet my overall winrate vs protoss for this season is currently at 47%. The matchup is boring, bio is boring, and toss late-game can get ridiculously out of hand if you aren't a top tier player.
I dont think it is physically possible for terran to deal with 15+ warpgates and 3 robo.
If you overbuild vikings you get raped by their ground army and are forced to land, then they make 3 colossus and rape face. This happens over and over -_-
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On December 01 2011 12:42 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 12:32 Horseballs wrote:On December 01 2011 12:03 ZenithM wrote:What is actually funny is that every fucking ladder Terran claims to have a 30% winrate against Protoss. Given Blizzard system, they have 50% winrate overall. Therefore there exists a race against which they have way over 50% winrate. - If it's Zerg: Well Zerg is underpowered then? How come they don't complain? Terran easy mode? - Let's assume now that in fact, they have 50% winrate against Zerg and that TvZ is a balanced matchup. Hence, they have a 70% winrate TvT, maybe even higher because there is less Terran players on ladder. Conclusion: Every goddamn Terran has over 70% winrate TvT. Uh... + Show Spoiler +Other conclusion: only a handful of Terrans have a problem in TvP, and they whine the loudest and we have threads like these, and anti-Protoss balance whines and shit. Or, they are like me and had a ~36% ratio while playing for the long game and decided the matchup was frustrating and boring to play and started to one-base all in every game. So far my win rate with one base all-ins has been around 80%, and yet my overall winrate vs protoss for this season is currently at 47%. The matchup is boring, bio is boring, and toss late-game can get ridiculously out of hand if you aren't a top tier player. I dont think it is physically possible for terran to deal with 15+ warpgates and 3 robo. If you overbuild vikings you get raped by their ground army and are forced to land, then they make 3 colossus and rape face. This happens over and over -_-
Yep, once Protoss gets 3/4 base and 10+ gates you'll be lucky to break even every fight in tvp, and then comes the damn 10 zealots as reinforcement 
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On December 01 2011 12:50 IlIlIlIl wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 12:42 Sadist wrote:On December 01 2011 12:32 Horseballs wrote:On December 01 2011 12:03 ZenithM wrote:What is actually funny is that every fucking ladder Terran claims to have a 30% winrate against Protoss. Given Blizzard system, they have 50% winrate overall. Therefore there exists a race against which they have way over 50% winrate. - If it's Zerg: Well Zerg is underpowered then? How come they don't complain? Terran easy mode? - Let's assume now that in fact, they have 50% winrate against Zerg and that TvZ is a balanced matchup. Hence, they have a 70% winrate TvT, maybe even higher because there is less Terran players on ladder. Conclusion: Every goddamn Terran has over 70% winrate TvT. Uh... + Show Spoiler +Other conclusion: only a handful of Terrans have a problem in TvP, and they whine the loudest and we have threads like these, and anti-Protoss balance whines and shit. Or, they are like me and had a ~36% ratio while playing for the long game and decided the matchup was frustrating and boring to play and started to one-base all in every game. So far my win rate with one base all-ins has been around 80%, and yet my overall winrate vs protoss for this season is currently at 47%. The matchup is boring, bio is boring, and toss late-game can get ridiculously out of hand if you aren't a top tier player. I dont think it is physically possible for terran to deal with 15+ warpgates and 3 robo. If you overbuild vikings you get raped by their ground army and are forced to land, then they make 3 colossus and rape face. This happens over and over -_- Yep, once Protoss gets 3/4 base and 10+ gates you'll be lucky to break even every fight in tvp, and then comes the damn 10 zealots as reinforcement
silly you, i think you mean 13 chargelots and 3 archons! 
i'm not having as much problems at high diamond level in TvP as others, although it can be frustrating
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I love this thread, its pretty humorous how average players (like plat/diamond/masters) telling players like drewbie, jinro, cloud that theyre wrong and to suck it up. Funny thing is, if you had a protoss thread like this with Huk, Whitera, and Incontrol or a zerg thread with Idra, Stephano, and Destiny the tone of this thread would be a lot different.
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On November 29 2011 03:50 xOff wrote:
While playing against diamond protoss, I have the hardest time ever. I can beat the zerg and other terrans around my level fairly easy but when playing against protoss i certainly agree with "If Terran doesn't do X, they simply die." My drops get denied fairly easy due to warp in + a HT so my scouting information is usually a poke and a scan and pray i see their tech.
At my current moment according to sc2 gears my TvZ is 78% TvT is 72% and my TvP is like 38%. Its just a really difficult matchup for our level.
Yeah, if you don't prepare and scout well you will die.
And you are not dropping at the right times if they are denied very easily. Push the front and drop or drop in 2 places. And what's with "scan and pray" are you even serious? Nobody else had scans... just scout the tosses army comp. You will find out exactly what they have. Protoss is definitely the easiest race to scout by any stretch of the imagination.
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On December 01 2011 12:50 IlIlIlIl wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 12:42 Sadist wrote:On December 01 2011 12:32 Horseballs wrote:On December 01 2011 12:03 ZenithM wrote:What is actually funny is that every fucking ladder Terran claims to have a 30% winrate against Protoss. Given Blizzard system, they have 50% winrate overall. Therefore there exists a race against which they have way over 50% winrate. - If it's Zerg: Well Zerg is underpowered then? How come they don't complain? Terran easy mode? - Let's assume now that in fact, they have 50% winrate against Zerg and that TvZ is a balanced matchup. Hence, they have a 70% winrate TvT, maybe even higher because there is less Terran players on ladder. Conclusion: Every goddamn Terran has over 70% winrate TvT. Uh... + Show Spoiler +Other conclusion: only a handful of Terrans have a problem in TvP, and they whine the loudest and we have threads like these, and anti-Protoss balance whines and shit. Or, they are like me and had a ~36% ratio while playing for the long game and decided the matchup was frustrating and boring to play and started to one-base all in every game. So far my win rate with one base all-ins has been around 80%, and yet my overall winrate vs protoss for this season is currently at 47%. The matchup is boring, bio is boring, and toss late-game can get ridiculously out of hand if you aren't a top tier player. I dont think it is physically possible for terran to deal with 15+ warpgates and 3 robo. If you overbuild vikings you get raped by their ground army and are forced to land, then they make 3 colossus and rape face. This happens over and over -_- Yep, once Protoss gets 3/4 base and 10+ gates you'll be lucky to break even every fight in tvp, and then comes the damn 10 zealots as reinforcement Ghosts. I know terran's love to cry that "ghosts really aren't that good", but they REALLY ARE.
There was a recent IPL game (IPL 4 Qualifiers I think), Thorzain vs White Ra on shattered Temple. Going into the big fight Ra had a 20 food advantage, upgrade advantage, and a scary Zealot/Collossi/Archon/Stalker army. He got rolled, completely destroyed. Thorzain EMP'd enough to destroy the archons and snipped every single zealot in a matter of second. All that was left were a few sad, lonely, colossi that were quickly cleaned up. White Ra reinforced with those 10 zealot's which were once again snipped into nothingness.
My general point is, stuff can be dealt with if you try something new. The current late game P composition was tailored to destroy generic MMM, so of course MMM loses.
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..I'm not sure what you want? More defense for terran?
Lets talk about Area Defense.
Bunker (With Salvage)
Tank
Planetary Fortress (You'll build a command center anyway. You will have at least 1 of these in a macro game.)
Sensor Tower ( FREE MAPHACKS. )
Missile turret (Unable to be taken down if you mass repair)
Sorry, do you want more defense?
You're going to have to wait for the next bunker change that'll let you fit a battle cruser inside of it.
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On December 01 2011 12:41 deadmau wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 12:03 ZenithM wrote:What is actually funny is that every fucking ladder Terran claims to have a 30% winrate against Protoss. Given Blizzard system, they have 50% winrate overall. Therefore there exists a race against which they have way over 50% winrate. - If it's Zerg: Well Zerg is underpowered then? How come they don't complain? Terran easy mode? - Let's assume now that in fact, they have 50% winrate against Zerg and that TvZ is a balanced matchup. Hence, they have a 70% winrate TvT, maybe even higher because there is less Terran players on ladder. Conclusion: Every goddamn Terran has over 70% winrate TvT. Uh... + Show Spoiler +Other conclusion: only a handful of Terrans have a problem in TvP, and they whine the loudest and we have threads like these, and anti-Protoss balance whines and shit. ZenithM hit the mark exactly, some pretty egregious winrate claims here that just don't make sense. Can you terrans cut the bullshit now.
Well as a terran player I can see multiple glaring holes in your argument. My TVP winrate is about 30%, however I cheese literally EVERY GAME. The reason for this is because I know if the game goes past 15 minutes I'm dead no matter what. This is not a preconceived notion that popped into my head, this happened after losing literally hundreds of games vs protoss in the later stages of the game.
Bottom line, I know a LOT of terrans who just cheese every game. If you go into stream chats of terran players you will find that other people just cheese because they do NOT WANT TO GO INTO A MACRO GAME. Also we do NOT HAVE THE LATEST DATA on winrates, I strongly suspect this data will differ greatly from previous months. It is important to mind that at the bottom leagues balance is completely different as well.
One more thing, I can guarentee 90+% of the people saying "terran need to do this, terran need to do that" need to play the dang race before they comment. I hear so many people who have never touched terran in their life going "make blue flame vs zealot you nub idiots".
I can tell you right now offracing even 10 games as zerg and protoss opened my eyes drastically to how the game functioned and what the weaknesses of the race were. That is the only way you can gain knowledge of the game, theorycrafting doesn't work.
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On December 01 2011 13:59 Jacobs Ladder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 12:50 IlIlIlIl wrote:On December 01 2011 12:42 Sadist wrote:On December 01 2011 12:32 Horseballs wrote:On December 01 2011 12:03 ZenithM wrote:What is actually funny is that every fucking ladder Terran claims to have a 30% winrate against Protoss. Given Blizzard system, they have 50% winrate overall. Therefore there exists a race against which they have way over 50% winrate. - If it's Zerg: Well Zerg is underpowered then? How come they don't complain? Terran easy mode? - Let's assume now that in fact, they have 50% winrate against Zerg and that TvZ is a balanced matchup. Hence, they have a 70% winrate TvT, maybe even higher because there is less Terran players on ladder. Conclusion: Every goddamn Terran has over 70% winrate TvT. Uh... + Show Spoiler +Other conclusion: only a handful of Terrans have a problem in TvP, and they whine the loudest and we have threads like these, and anti-Protoss balance whines and shit. Or, they are like me and had a ~36% ratio while playing for the long game and decided the matchup was frustrating and boring to play and started to one-base all in every game. So far my win rate with one base all-ins has been around 80%, and yet my overall winrate vs protoss for this season is currently at 47%. The matchup is boring, bio is boring, and toss late-game can get ridiculously out of hand if you aren't a top tier player. I dont think it is physically possible for terran to deal with 15+ warpgates and 3 robo. If you overbuild vikings you get raped by their ground army and are forced to land, then they make 3 colossus and rape face. This happens over and over -_- Yep, once Protoss gets 3/4 base and 10+ gates you'll be lucky to break even every fight in tvp, and then comes the damn 10 zealots as reinforcement Ghosts. I know terran's love to cry that "ghosts really aren't that good", but they REALLY ARE. There was a recent IPL game (IPL 4 Qualifiers I think), Thorzain vs White Ra on shattered Temple. Going into the big fight Ra had a 20 food advantage, upgrade advantage, and a scary Zealot/Collossi/Archon/Stalker army. He got rolled, completely destroyed. Thorzain EMP'd enough to destroy the archons and snipped every single zealot in a matter of second. All that was left were a few sad, lonely, colossi that were quickly cleaned up. White Ra reinforced with those 10 zealot's which were once again snipped into nothingness. My general point is, stuff can be dealt with if you try something new. The current late game P composition was tailored to destroy generic MMM, so of course MMM loses.
As i remember White Ra didnt do a Zealot/Collossi/Archon/Stalker army, he did mass mass zealot and archons, and thorzain had basicly a handful of marauders and a ton of ghosts with obviously make short work of that unit compostion.
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EPT
