EPTif you want accountability from others, maybe you should be accountable for what you say too.
[MLG] Providence - Finale - Page 19
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We have issued a clarification to this article after discussion with staff, read here - Heyoka | ||
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Govou
Canada1072 Posts
if you want accountability from others, maybe you should be accountable for what you say too. | ||
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ladyumbra
Canada1699 Posts
On November 29 2011 08:37 Cyanocyst wrote: Thank you, This is pretty much what i got out of it. Not to mention Leenock only "really" went 2-1 with MMA. He beat DRG in a best of 7 after coming back from being down 0-2. I guess you can look at the Naniwa series with Leenock going 2-1 with him in the first 3 games, but that's kinda a stretch in my mind, seeing as for the best of 7 he went 4 - 1. The way the article talked about it made it seem like, Leenock was dropping games left and right to everybody and just lucked out. When in reality only 3 players took games off him. Honestly though in some ways coming back, from an 0-2 deficit like that vs Drg makes his run even more epic. Once again it's about technicalities. In his run Naniwa dropped 2 games and no series. In his run leenock dropped 5 games, 1 series and nearly lost that best of 7 to get to the finals. Who the opponents were doesn't matter it's the statistical results that count and I say that as a big fan of both players. Again I will bring up the Nestea and MVP comparison. Nestea, had a perfect gsl run in july. Gsl august MVP had a nearly perfect run against much harder opponents. We all know who had the more impressive run to thier win but in a technical sense Nestea was more dominant as he did not lose any games while MVP lost a few. The award was not for most impressive run: Leenock has that on lock ^-^, but most dominant run which can be qualified by simply looking at the numbers. | ||
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Govou
Canada1072 Posts
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HeavenResign
United States702 Posts
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sickoota
Canada918 Posts
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10340 Posts
The "upsets" section is a bit of a reach, like Ganzi over Puzzle, and Oz over Ganzi, for example. That skill gap is not huge, nor would I call them big upsets. Puma over Bomber and Lorisa... those aren't big upsets either! Some people would favor Puma, even. I'm not even sure half of that list qualify as even minor upsets, these are top players. I don't think players that we probably haven't heard much before (Forbs, dde, whomever) beating perennial big-name no-results pros like Machine, incontrol, Axlav, and Tyler means anything. Just that the perennial big-name no-results pros are just far behind as ever. Also, the fantasy gg timing reference. GGing prematurely is NOT what fantasy does! When fantasy gets owned but refuses to gg and does shit like lift all of his buildings and prolong the game for extra excruciating minutes with no hope of winning, that is fantasy gg timing. What Idra does is Idra gg timing, he quits before he's even lost sometimes. They're essentially antonyms! | ||
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10340 Posts
Naniwa was dominant in Dallas but his competition was grossly inferior to Leenock's at Providence. Talk about lack of context regarding wins-to-losses in a major tournament. | ||
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ArchDC
Malaysia1996 Posts
Managing both the perception and reality is important. Throwing my own 2 cents in as well. | ||
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Tektos
Australia1321 Posts
I don't understand these sections whatsoever. Big upsets? Hero over Puzzle Major over Artist Ganzi over Puzzle Oz over Ganzi MC over MVP Puma over Losira Puma over Bomber Leenock over MMA I wouldn't consider any of them to be upsets at all. It feels like you're stretching to make the list longer by adding all of these ones. No Names? State HeavOnEarth Gatored sycknesS Ostojiy dde These are all fairly well known names... Seems incredibly interesting that you would find these to be "No Names" As for the EG House section, it seems utterly ridiculous as well. It has been ~3 months since they house started up and we've already seen an improvement from most players. Sure, not all players on the team are currently dominating, but there has certainly been an improvement. Outside the "top 3" of the EG team (idra, huk, puma) there has been Machine, Axslav, StrifeCro, Demuslim have all seen improvements from my perspective. Give it time, and look at results outside of MLGs (Axslav and StrifeCro have won a few smaller tournaments recently if I remember correctly). Take a look at other examples of people moving into team houses - Huk in the oGs/TL house? It took several months for him to show any results. How about contrasting it with Korean pro gaming houses? You completely discredit the top three EG players by saying they were good already and they would be good without the house, and hence you amplify the negatives of the remaining team members. Korean pro houses sometimes have 10-15 or more gamers in the house yet no Korean team has 15 insanely dominant players. By your logic are these Korean team houses also complete failures that need to be reevaluated? I'm aware this is your opinion but it seems rather uninformed. Okay enough with the negatives - I really enjoyed the rest of the article, the awards and the photos were especially awesome. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
Naniwa's Dallas run was impressive true, but contained ZERO Code S Koreans. Leenock stomped his way through several such players on his way. | ||
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gozima
Canada602 Posts
The real question, at least for me, is why the bigger name teams don't replace under performing players. Are they signing lifetime contracts? Have any of the bigger Western teams ever dropped players because they've shown zero results over an extended period of time? | ||
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mabrumback
United States19 Posts
On November 28 2011 19:41 iNcontroL wrote: pretty stupid of TL to post an article where they literally call into question making a team house.. what the fuck? I want a vile, vVv, coL (america), Mouz, Empire etc etc etc.. house.. I want as many teams as possible taking this shit serious. Where the FUCK does TL get off calling out someone else for making a team house for themselves? A waste? It can NEVER be a waste. Even if Machine, myself, Axslav or Strife NEVER win a MLG the house is NOT a waste. It is where serious players get more serious and do the best they can to train and get better. It is where legitimate media is produced, serious practice is had and better results are posted.. I expect WAY more from TL than this shit. Everyone and their mother could call out TL for their results and their partnership/house with oGs but they don't because that would be a dumb thing to do in this community.. and yet the #1 community website goes out and calls out their rival while turning the blinders to their own crowd of players who are "carried" by players who churn out less results than the ones who carry EG... wtf. Alright, I dont want to come off like a dick, buts lets take stock of EG's player roster for a second in a non-biased and fair manner. Idra is an excellent player who EG picked up at and early stage and fostered as he developed hi SC2 career. He is not a top, if not the top, foreign Zerg and is one of the best Zergs in the world. EG deserves full credit for his development and success. Next is Puma. Simply put, Puma is on EG because you guys have more money to toss around than TSL. Simple as that. He was good before EG, he is equally good at EG, and he will probably continue to be good for a long time, but EG did literally nothing to develop him as a player. In fact, I think its pretty safe to say that his practice regimen was better at the TSL house, as he was surrounded by players such as Trickster, Fruitdealer, Polt, and other Korean pros. Finally, we come to Huk, perhaps even more so than Puma, Huk is an Evil Genius player because EG could outspend Liquid. Simple as that. He loved being on Liquid, but EG threw and absolutely absurd amount of money his way, so he switched teams. And thats fine. He made the smart move by doing whats financially best for him, especially in the long run. But as with Puma, EG did LITERALLY NOTHING to make Huk that player he is. Even after joining your team, he chose to spend most of his time practicing in Korea, as the practice environment there is clearly better than at the EG Lair. Now I'm not going to talk about Demuslim, becuase to be quite honest I know nothing about him as a player, but I will touch on EG's "B-Teamers" which, as much as it breaks my heart to say it, includes you. None of Eg's other players (Machine, yourself, Axlav, Strifecro) have posted results of note against top competition, and that is simply a fact. I'm not going to do what other more aggresive people on this thread have done and state that you guys "shouldn't be considered pro gamers," because that opinion is asinine and and overstatement, but it is undeniable that neither you nor your less succesful teammates have done noteworthy things at the top level of SC2 in the last 12 months. I am trying so hard to not sound like an asshole here, but EG is currently being carried by three players, two of which they bought simply because they have a huge amount of money to pay out in salaries. So please don't flame TL over this article. Direct your hate at the writer, not the innocent team whose website this slander (and i'll admit it was slander. calling EG's house a waste was way out of line) just happened to end up. | ||
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Bubble-T
Australia105 Posts
On November 29 2011 11:16 Dhalphir wrote: Naniwa's Dallas run was impressive true, but contained ZERO Code S Koreans. Leenock stomped his way through several such players on his way. Well yeah that's part of why Naniwa was more dominant in Dallas than Leenock was in Providence. It's almost as if a lot of TL posters have difficulty comprehending what the award is for. This isn't the fault of the writer. | ||
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10340 Posts
Incontrol, TL as a whole is not attacking your team. Don't play the victim card, you know full well that staff are entitled to their opinions. However, this does not mean that the paragraph about the EG house was not poorly written, unnecessary for the context of the article, or largely full of shit. It was most of those things. Take away the top three players of any team, like Hot_Bid said, and the team sucks. The bottom feeders on any team are usually as bad as another. The real problem is that writers cannot fully disassociate themselves from representing their "employers" (I know staff here are volunteers, but just work with me here). Even on ESPN when you read an awful Timmy Tebow piece, users will lament against the writer AND ESPN every time. You can't have someone write on behalf of the website and then wash your hands of anything inflammatory they might write in major tournament summaries like this. Opinion pieces are great. Articles like "Elephant in the room" are great. But if you stuck that piece in the middle of a GSL summary article, that would've been wrong at the time, don't you agree? | ||
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BlueBoxSC
United States582 Posts
With the very first SC2 NA team house, I don't think we saw that great of results. Yeah, it's great that the house is famous to the eSports world, but I can't see EG and sponsors continuing to pay for the place after this year's results. IdrA, Huk, and PuMa have always done well, and I don't think that spending hundreds of thousands on that house (Yeah, AZ is that expensive) was worth it. Then again, we don't know the money. Leenocktopus. <3 Grats to Leenock. GO TO SCHOOL. >///< Huk vs. Hero rivalry? I'd love to see that, but both players are simply too friendly to start something like IdrA vs MC or MMA vs Ryung. And I'm not just saying that because I love both players and just couldn't choose between the two. <3 SC, <3 MLG, and <3 eSports! Forever fighting. c: | ||
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fraktoasters
United States617 Posts
On November 29 2011 11:25 Bubble-T wrote: Well yeah that's part of why Naniwa was more dominant in Dallas than Leenock was in Providence. It's almost as if a lot of TL posters have difficulty comprehending what the award is for. This isn't the fault of the writer. Yeah it's as if people don't realize that dominance means taking less losses. It's right there in the dictionary people! | ||
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courtpanda
866 Posts
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mabrumback
United States19 Posts
On November 29 2011 11:48 BlueBoxSC wrote: Epic event, epic tournament, awesome year of SC2. With the very first SC2 NA team house, I don't think we saw that great of results. Yeah, it's great that the house is famous to the eSports world, but I can't see EG and sponsors continuing to pay for the place after this year's results. IdrA, Huk, and PuMa have always done well, and I don't think that spending hundreds of thousands on that house (Yeah, AZ is that expensive) was worth it. Then again, we don't know the money. Leenocktopus. <3 Grats to Leenock. GO TO SCHOOL. >///< Huk vs. Hero rivalry? I'd love to see that, but both players are simply too friendly to start something like IdrA vs MC or MMA vs Ryung. And I'm not just saying that because I love both players and just couldn't choose between the two. <3 SC, <3 MLG, and <3 eSports! Forever fighting. c: I agree with what you said for the most part but just one correction: AZ real estate is actually really really cheap at the moment. That is likely one of the main reasons the team house was erected there. | ||
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confusedcrib
United States1307 Posts
On November 29 2011 12:04 courtpanda wrote: can someone explain what the controversy is over the teamhouse section? is it just too opinionated for a news piece? You actually summed it up nicely  | ||
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