EPT
sad to see them go out like this.Coca forfeits Code S due to ESV weekly scandal - Page 16
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Logikz
United States65 Posts
sad to see them go out like this. | ||
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REDBLUEGREEN
Germany1904 Posts
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
On November 15 2011 13:58 xXFireandIceXx wrote: But did Demuslim publicly type that out in the chat? Or is this an inference? Cuz if there's a difference. DeMusliM actually told the tournament admin. | ||
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Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:00 Futarchy wrote: By the way, if losing a match on purpose without more is is equivalent to match fixing, then what about all those people who forfeited games at MLG to get around the advantages they have of an extended series? Those people are hailed as heroes every MLG but the basic act itself (purposely losing) is the same. Surely match fixing cannot just be the act of intentionally losing a game, some kind of bad intention has to accompany that act. In this case, I think it is fair that the intention of the players was not to let Byun through to the next round. Seems like just two friends wanting to play another game. (Perhaps Coca thought Byun made a silly mistake that game and wanted a fair fight? Wouldn't that be analogous to players forfeiting games in MLG?) the one time it happened at MLG it's cause white ra was late and his opponent was protesting that MLG made him forfeit the first round. its a completely different situation. I have never seen a person who was up legitely in an ES do that. | ||
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jtbem
Canada1404 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45009 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:00 raviy wrote: All this says is that the western world is far more blasé when it comes to deceit and underhanded behavior. Remember that EG's poaching of puma was a big deal over there. Koreans simply value honor and integrity more than western cultures. Um, the "poaching" of Puma is completely different, because there was no contract. TSL explicitly (and stupidly) never made the players sign contracts. They simply didn't know how to run the business aspect of a pro-team. It had nothing to do with respect. And that had nothing to do with throwing games. I don't think we're allowed to compare *every single controversy* to this one lol. How about we just stick to the instances where players throw games for other players, okay?  | ||
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Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
On November 15 2011 13:59 Bobster wrote: Oh, so it's ok if you don't get caught? What a rotten attitude to have. Yeah I think its fine. It may not be honorable or respectable but its the nature of competition. Given their circumstances I don't really think its a big deal for Coca to drop games against Byun. But they screwed up and announced it to the world, therefore they should now be punished to set precedence. | ||
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ninjamyst
United States1903 Posts
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Aegeis
United States1619 Posts
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:00 Futarchy wrote: By the way, if losing a match on purpose without more is is equivalent to match fixing, then what about all those people who forfeited games at MLG to get around the advantages they have of an extended series? Those people are hailed as heroes every MLG but the basic act itself (purposely losing) is the same. Surely match fixing cannot just be the act of intentionally losing a game, some kind of bad intention has to accompany that act. In this case, I think it is fair that the intention of the players was not to let Byun through to the next round. Seems like just two friends wanting to play another game. (Perhaps Coca thought Byun made a silly mistake that game and wanted a fair fight? Wouldn't that be analogous to players forfeiting games in MLG?) You can´t really compare foreigners with koreans in this case. Koreans have a legit scene, they have fought for e sports to be accepted in their country. Its understandable that they don´t want e sports to be seen as a fake competition where players can just throw away matches and not play for real. Foreigners don´t care that much but eventually I think we will have to care if we want this **** to be seen as a real competition and not play pretend.(Not that I am saying the reaction by korean teams was excellent, but please try to understand that nothing hurts more a competition than players not taking it seriously, which is what koreans don´t want, which is a fair point) | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
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RezChi
Canada2368 Posts
Quote R1ch:"Throwing games is not match fixing. Match fixing implies pre-meditation, this was just some bad decision making by a 17 year old kid. Harsh." | ||
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W2
United States1177 Posts
Besides, there are a lot more cunning ways to go about this, Coca should be given bonus points for 1. being blunt, not hiding anything. 2. he was adhering to Byun's request. | ||
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
On November 15 2011 13:30 kccc wrote: I wouldnt call it match fixing >.> they were probably just being friendly and Coca knew he was gonna win lol. Everyone gets too butt hurt over stuff Try read over everything again. Maybe you might understand the 2nd time... | ||
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Futarchy
Singapore59 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:02 karis wrote: the one time it happened at MLG it's cause white ra was late and his opponent was protesting that MLG made him forfeit the first round. its a completely different situation. I have never seen a person who was up legitely in an ES do that. Yes, but it just goes to show that the act alone of intentionally losing does not equals match fixing. Intentionally losing, when done for the right (or not wrong) reasons, is alright (or at least not bad). The people who are focusing solely on the act itself and not the intention of the players are not getting that. | ||
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Mr.Brightside
Australia317 Posts
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Flameling
United States413 Posts
On November 15 2011 13:41 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Banning the players permanently, or kicking the player entirely is too extreme imo. Temporary punishment would be more reasonable. This was stupid and disrespectful to the viewers, but it doesn't sound like any serious match fixing. Just two kids fucking around. Kespa would like a word with you... | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
On November 15 2011 13:43 Tanatos wrote: This can't be serious. I can't believe it.+ Show Spoiler + Full translation 슬레이어스가 ESV TV 코리안 위클리 시즌4 ‘고의 패배’ 사건에 대해 공식 사과하고 최종환을 집으로 돌려보냈다. Team SlayerS apologize about what happen to Coca's 'match fixing' during the ESV TV Korean Weekly S4 and send Coca back to home. 슬레이어스 김가연 게임단주는 “슬레이어스에 소속된 선수가 온라인 대회에서 고의 패배로 물의를 일으켜 죄송하다”고 말한 뒤 “이번 사건은 대회의 규모나 경기의 중요도에 관계없이 e스포츠 팬들에게 오해를 줄 수 있는 명백한 실수다. 팀 소속 선수에 대한 관리가 부족했던 것을 반성하고, 앞으로는 절대로 이런 일이 재발하지 않도록 노력하겠다”고 말했다. Manager SlayerSJessica said, "I am sorry about what happen to one of SlayerS member during the online tournament." "This is complete mistake from us to e-sports fans to cause misundertanding with no matter of importance nor size of tournament. I regret about reckless management and I will work hard to prevent such an incident ever again." 임요환 역시 “과거 승부조작 파문이 어떤 결과를 초래했는지 모두 알고 있다. 비록 온라인에서 진행된 일이라고 할지라도 선수로서 절대 해선 안될 일을 저지른 것”이라고 말한 뒤 “팀의 맏형으로서 사과 드리고, 이번 사건이 얼마나 나쁜 일인지 선수들에게 인지시키고 더 멋진 경기를 보여드릴 수 있도록 노력하겠다”고 덧붙였다. Boxer also said, "We all know what result match fix scandal has caused. Even in online tournament, this is a non-exceptable matter as progamer." "I apologize as big brother of the team, and I will remind how terrible it is to other players, and we will work hard to show you better games." 슬레이어스는 이번 사건의 책임을 물어 최종환을 2군으로 강등시키고 집으로 귀가 시켰다. 또한, 자숙과 반성의 의미로 앞으로 펼쳐지는 국내외 모든 스타2 대회에 최종환을 출전시키지 않는다고 말했다. 슬레이어스의 이번 징계는 무기한 조치이며, 최종환이 대회에 출전할 수 있는 상황이 됐다고 판단했을 때 복귀할 수 있다. SlayerS asked responsiblity of this incident to Coca and place him to B team and set him home. Also, by the meaning of self-reflect, SlayerS will ban Coca to any Starcraft 2 matches inside of Korea and rest of the world. This decision is for an indefinite period, and Coca will be back to SC2 when he is ready. 사건의 당사자인 최종환은 반성의 의미로 소니에릭슨 GSL 시즌7 코드S를 기권했다. 최종환은 이번 사건의 책임을 통감하고 스스로 코드S 잔여경기 출전을 포기하고 자숙하기로 결정했다. 이에 따라 최종환은 오는 16일 열리는 소니에릭슨 GSL 시즌7 코드S 16강 C조 경기에 출전하지 않는다. Coca has forfeit the GSL Nov. Code S for meaning of self-reflect. Coca himself has felt responsible to this incident and forfeit the rest of matches. So, Coca will not be on GSL Code S RO16 Group C match on 16th. 한편, 곰TV는 커뮤니티 공지를 통해 이번 사건에 대한 공식입장을 발표했다. 채정원 팀장은 ESV TV와 GSL의 연계와 관련된 내용을 설명하고, 공식적인 확인 절차가 끝난 뒤 선수들에 대한 징계나 처벌에 대해 공식 발표하겠다고 밝혔다. GomTV has announced their official comment on community board. Mr. Chae has explained relationship between ESV TV and GSL. After their official comfirmation, discipline action on players will be announced. I watched the match. I thought Coca doesn't always push himself to his limit in the Korean Weeklies, but rather experiments, and would let a 3rd game happen willingly in this match, just for playing more games and practicing more in a tournament environment. - IMHO, nothing wrong with that, it's even honorable in some sense. The kid is immensely talented, and focuses more on self-development for now, above all else. I still think that's all that is, and everybody is overreacting, But there's such an immense stigma to anything even remotely resembling "match-fixing" in Korea, that even if it was misinterpreted, now it's on. And Coca is actually so proud and honor-driven, that he won't say anything and would just take it like a man. What can I say, I still have slight hopes this is either a very elaborate very bad joke, or SlayerS and Mr. Chae would really look closer into what actually happened, and clear Coca's name immediately and let him play. But if not, he's still going to work hard, I have no doubt, and he'll return even stronger next year in the GSL. Coca fighting! | ||
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Aterons_toss
Romania1275 Posts
Im pretty sure there are not a lot o pros watching those, Coca could have just played badly and lost then said he was felling bad/wanted to try something/ w.e/ | ||
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Coruscant
Singapore84 Posts
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