EPT1.4.2 Patch Live - Page 42
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pezit
Sweden302 Posts
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secretary bird
447 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:39 sleepingdog wrote: lol the T whine is pretty hilarious....especially since most are whining about stuff that didn't change at all if you are losing, maybe you don't deserve where you are in ladder and shouldn't have achieved such a high MMR, how about that? Maybe you're delusional about thinking Protoss is hard on ladder how about that? | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13426 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:49 pezit wrote: If you lose versus a protoss you would've lost before the patch as well that's how tiny these changes are, only at the absolute top level of play will this change anything and even then it will be barely noticable. To be fair terrans who rely on a lot of emps will do slightly worse now than before. Thats the only thing its going to change. Also busting up ramps with emp is harder now as well. | ||
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RastaMonsta
304 Posts
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:39 sleepingdog wrote: lol the T whine is pretty hilarious....especially since most are whining about stuff that didn't change at all if you are losing, maybe you don't deserve where you are in ladder and shouldn't have achieved such a high MMR, how about that? Well that would mean you would losing TvT's and TvZ which doesn't happen. I'm now on a 10 Game 1-1-1 winning streak btw ^^ | ||
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Primal666
Slovenia418 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:49 pezit wrote: If you lose versus a protoss you would've lost before the patch as well that's how tiny these changes are, only at the absolute top level of play will this change anything and even then it will be barely noticable. I disagree in tvp, lower leauges got nerfed more than top play, because in top play EMPs are genrally more accurate. | ||
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Morale
Sweden1010 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:56 Primal666 wrote: I disagree in tvp, lower leauges got nerfed more than top play, because in top play EMPs are genrally more accurate. They are also better at spreading so id say it kinda evens out! | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On November 10 2011 04:01 Morale wrote: They are also better at spreading so id say it kinda evens out! People use ghosts in lower leagues? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46484 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:49 secretary bird wrote: Maybe you're delusional about thinking Protoss is hard on ladder how about that? I'm pretty sure that's a personal opinion, but hey, I'm not going to complain if my Terran opponents don't use ghosts. That's how I win against them. I get tech and they don't. If you're going to allow me to use my high templar (and not abuse EMP), it's your loss. | ||
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Lorch
Germany3711 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:56 Primal666 wrote: I disagree in tvp, lower leauges got nerfed more than top play, because in top play EMPs are genrally more accurate. And why should anyone care about lower leagues? I think no one should give a fuck if some chobo diamand terran has a harder time in pvt just because of this patch, the game shouldn't be balanced for anything but the highest level (though I know blizzard doesn't totally agree on this). I find it pathetic that most people here base there opinion of of their expirience in their respective league, unless you are high masters/gm you should never ever do that, you lack of skill/the lack of skill your opponnent has has a huge influence on what feels balanced and what not. | ||
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SoKHo
Korea (South)1081 Posts
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bLo0d
58 Posts
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bovineblitz
United States314 Posts
On November 10 2011 04:13 bLo0d wrote: The problem with the forge patch imo is that protoss upgrades are meant to be slightly more expensive since they apply to a wider variety of units. Basically u only really need 3/0/3 to be sufficient in late game as protoss. Shields, to be honest, are just taking the unit to the next level. Its not like +3shields and +3 armor = +3 armor for terran. Terran as well needs 3/3 and in some cases +2 on air. Zerg need +3 melee and/or range and +3 armor as well as possible +1/2/3 air. It is kind of a broken concept to buff forge ups because any viable tech switch protoss makes is supported by forge except stargate. While terran cannot just switch into mech lategame or go mass starports because those units will be behind on upgrades. Zerg cannot just go mass roach or mass muta after ultralisks with perfect efficiency because those units will most likely be less upgraded if the match is relatively even. Lastly, a bit off topic, what makes tvp a bit difficult for terran is the fact that there is no lategame unit such as the broodlord or the colosus to build up to. Bcs are of course not all that great. So you are forced as terran to stay bio and fight massive aoe with it. Let's fail to address that protoss upgrades scale poorly compared to zerg and terran upgrades, their units are more expensive by rule, and shields still won't be upgraded past +1 anyways. | ||
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SoKHo
Korea (South)1081 Posts
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On November 10 2011 04:13 bLo0d wrote: The problem with the forge patch imo is that protoss upgrades are meant to be slightly more expensive since they apply to a wider variety of units. Basically u only really need 3/0/3 to be sufficient in late game as protoss. Shields, to be honest, are just taking the unit to the next level. Its not like +3shields and +3 armor = +3 armor for terran. Terran as well needs 3/3 and in some cases +2 on air. Zerg need +3 melee and/or range and +3 armor as well as possible +1/2/3 air. It is kind of a broken concept to buff forge ups because any viable tech switch protoss makes is supported by forge except stargate. While terran cannot just switch into mech lategame or go mass starports because those units will be behind on upgrades. Zerg cannot just go mass roach or mass muta after ultralisks with perfect efficiency because those units will most likely be less upgraded if the match is relatively even. Lastly, a bit off topic, what makes tvp a bit difficult for terran is the fact that there is no lategame unit such as the broodlord or the colosus to build up to. Bcs are of course not all that great. So you are forced as terran to stay bio and fight massive aoe with it. Why all the hate for BattleCruisers? Just don't let the Protoss feedback them and you're all set. | ||
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Rye.
United Kingdom88 Posts
I'm gold and i use EMP's. People who say lower league players just need to "macro better" are idiots. If i don't micro, my marines die to banelings. If i don't kite, my MM's get chopped up by zealots. I could have awesome macro, but if i went mech against toss I'd lose. EMP nerf will hurt me way more than it will hurt someone from masters or GM. Its very easy for a gold player to get storms off. As soon as one hits its pretty much GG. I don't complain though, i'll just get better. *he says after a massive losing streak and demotion to gold* Several people have said that balance is/should be for GM and Pro level. This is so wrong. Blizzard have it right, they balance for everyone. If a patch balanced GM level but made TvP Impossible for lower leagues then people would stop playing which would mean less HOTS sales and less SC3 sales etc... remember 80% of players are in Plat and below. Blizzard is games company out to make profit. They are very very nice when it comes to supporting games. They also do what they can for the pro scene, but ultimately they are a company out to make money from games. | ||
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petro1987
Brazil374 Posts
On November 10 2011 04:27 Rye. wrote: I'm gold and i use EMP's. People who say lower league players just need to "macro better" are idiots. If i don't micro, my marines die to banelings. If i don't kite, my MM's get chopped up by zealots. I could have awesome macro, but if i went mech against toss I'd lose. EMP nerf will hurt me way more than it will hurt someone from masters or GM. Its very easy for a gold player to get storms off. As soon as one hits its pretty much GG. I don't complain though, i'll just get better. *he says after a massive losing streak and demotion to gold* Several people have said that balance is/should be for GM and Pro level. This is so wrong. Blizzard have it right, they balance for everyone. If a patch balanced GM level but made TvP Impossible for lower leagues then people would stop playing which would mean less HOTS sales and less SC3 sales etc... remember 80% of players are in Plat and below. Blizzard is games company out to make profit. They are very very nice when it comes to supporting games. They also do what they can for the pro scene, but ultimately they are a company out to make money from games. Don't bother arguing with them. Eventually there will be like 10% T everywhere below masters and they'll be pleased to play PvP and PvZ all day. Oh, and by the way, P is way harder to play, that's way there are so few T and so much P below masters. | ||
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
On November 10 2011 04:27 Rye. wrote: I'm gold and i use EMP's. People who say lower league players just need to "macro better" are idiots. If i don't micro, my marines die to banelings. If i don't kite, my MM's get chopped up by zealots. I could have awesome macro, but if i went mech against toss I'd lose. EMP nerf will hurt me way more than it will hurt someone from masters or GM. Its very easy for a gold player to get storms off. As soon as one hits its pretty much GG. I don't complain though, i'll just get better. *he says after a massive losing streak and demotion to gold* Several people have said that balance is/should be for GM and Pro level. This is so wrong. Blizzard have it right, they balance for everyone. If a patch balanced GM level but made TvP Impossible for lower leagues then people would stop playing which would mean less HOTS sales and less SC3 sales etc... remember 80% of players are in Plat and below. Blizzard is games company out to make profit. They are very very nice when it comes to supporting games. They also do what they can for the pro scene, but ultimately they are a company out to make money from games. You can go mech at gold league. You can even go mech at masters league and make it work. Also, some lower league players' kiting micro is so bad that I feel it would just be better not to kite at all. And yes, Blizzard wants to make money and that the majority of the players are lower leagues, but that shouldn't mean the game should be balanced at all levels. They might do it to make money but that doesn't mean it's right in my opinion. | ||
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diLLa
Netherlands247 Posts
Seems like you still have an edge, albeit not as much as you used to have. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46484 Posts
On November 10 2011 04:27 Rye. wrote: I'm gold and i use EMP's. People who say lower league players just need to "macro better" are idiots. If i don't micro, my marines die to banelings. If i don't kite, my MM's get chopped up by zealots. I could have awesome macro, but if i went mech against toss I'd lose. EMP nerf will hurt me way more than it will hurt someone from masters or GM. Its very easy for a gold player to get storms off. As soon as one hits its pretty much GG. I don't complain though, i'll just get better. *he says after a massive losing streak and demotion to gold* Several people have said that balance is/should be for GM and Pro level. This is so wrong. Blizzard have it right, they balance for everyone. If a patch balanced GM level but made TvP Impossible for lower leagues then people would stop playing which would mean less HOTS sales and less SC3 sales etc... remember 80% of players are in Plat and below. Blizzard is games company out to make profit. They are very very nice when it comes to supporting games. They also do what they can for the pro scene, but ultimately they are a company out to make money from games. 1. Macro comes first. Then micro and unit composition and other things. Obviously. That's what people say. They don't say you never need anything besides macro. 2. EMP nerf hurts you more than a pro because they have better aim, but why would a storm be just as easy for a player of your caliber? Storms are significantly harder to use than EMP. They aren't immediate damage, they're the same radius, high templar are slower than ghosts and can't be cloaked, and high templar have shorter range. Duh. Plus, ghosts can make it so high templar can never use storm anyway lol. 3. It's impossible to balance for lower level players, because there are too many confounding variables, due to the fact that their play is so inherently flawed. You never know if a loss is due to the fact that there is a race imbalance, or because the players just didn't play to the best of the races' abilities. It's possible to assess imbalance at the top level, where mechanics are nearly perfect. On November 10 2011 04:33 petro1987 wrote: Don't bother arguing with them. Eventually there will be like 10% T everywhere below masters and they'll be pleased to play PvP and PvZ all day. Oh, and by the way, P is way harder to play, that's way there are so few T and so much P below masters. It's funny that you're defending someone who has no idea what he's talking about. That's called looking silly by association. | ||
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