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razy
Russian Federation899 Posts
Also toss don't use harass in PvT atm because they are too concerned about getting their tech up off of 2 base. After that they have to focus on their huge ball not to die because they've invested too much in it. Heavy harassment would work great with adelscott style but sadly no one is doint it atm  | ||
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Ravnemesteren
224 Posts
I cant see why people think the zerg changes are OP though. They pale compared to the T changes. The zerg changes actually seem quite balanced. But the shredder alone is so darn hard to deal with. I don't think people get how fast they can be dropped all over to totally make a zerg base null and void. Its a cool idea for a defensive unit (although terran doesnt need it considering planetary and siege tanks), but as a unit that can be used for both (especially agressive use), its totally broken. And if people think it cant be used to add to the deathball they are so wrong. Screening the tanks the tankpush is unstoppable. What a stupid unit.... I really hope it doesnt make it to release. | ||
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supraWman
Germany453 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On October 31 2011 22:29 Ravnemesteren wrote: Thanks for this thread. Didnt know about the custom games before I read it. But after fooling around with the custom with a friend I can easily say I really enjoy the zerg changes. I cant see why people think the zerg changes are OP though. They pale compared to the T changes. The zerg changes actually seem quite balanced. But the shredder alone is so darn hard to deal with. I don't think people get how fast they can be dropped all over to totally make a zerg base null and void. Its a cool idea for a defensive unit (although terran doesnt need it considering planetary and siege tanks), but as a unit that can be used for both (especially agressive use), its totally broken. And if people think it cant be used to add to the deathball they are so wrong. Screening the tanks the tankpush is unstoppable. What a stupid unit.... I really hope it doesnt make it to release. I think it's ok, the only thing that needs to be removed is the ability to be transported. It should be classified as building. That way the only way to use shredders for harass is to either build them in his base or run them straight through the front door into his mineral line... and in either case, the Zerg deserves what happens to him then. As for protecting against flanks, the Shredder slows down the terran army even more and makes it almost immobile, so it shouldn't be too hard to deal with. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On October 31 2011 22:35 Morfildur wrote: I think it's ok, the only thing that needs to be removed is the ability to be transported. It should be classified as building. That way the only way to use shredders for harass is to either build them in his base or run them straight through the front door into his mineral line... and in either case, the Zerg deserves what happens to him then. As for protecting against flanks, the Shredder slows down the terran army even more and makes it almost immobile, so it shouldn't be too hard to deal with. If the thor can be transported why cant a shredder be? | ||
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Zorgaz
Sweden2951 Posts
On October 31 2011 22:27 Cheerio wrote: Storm drops will never be too good on pro level. A prism will get noticed and all the terran has to do is evac scvs when there is threat and go back seconds later. Compare the drops: - a terran drop not only forces evac it also actually kills stuff even if workers are evacuated. U cant ignore the terran drop or it will kill important buildings while u can just spread out your scvs, let the storms go off, go back to mining, and go try to kill the protoss while he has much less AoE now. - terran drop is available at around 8-00(?) while you can get HT drop realistically at 14-00(?). Not only u need to get the tech available u need to wait for energy to build up - terran risks mineral only units while p risks extremely gas expensive units. Zealots drops seem to work out great for White-Ra every time ^^. Besides you can always drop the main with some sentries and FF the ramp. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On October 31 2011 22:35 Morfildur wrote: I think it's ok, the only thing that needs to be removed is the ability to be transported. It should be classified as building. That way the only way to use shredders for harass is to either build them in his base or run them straight through the front door into his mineral line... and in either case, the Zerg deserves what happens to him then. As for protecting against flanks, the Shredder slows down the terran army even more and makes it almost immobile, so it shouldn't be too hard to deal with. they wouldn't cost supply at that point, and blizzard's goal of not adding to the terran "death ball" will be negated. I think the shredder might have a bit too much health and maybe armor in those videos, but that's about it. Dropping them in the mineral line is fine, since most players will notice the red blip on their screen and run away their workers before the shredders have deployed. | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
On October 31 2011 10:07 avilo wrote: Holy shit people need to stop whining and making huge blanket statements. I can't imagine some of you guys in brood war if the community were this big back then. "what the fuck blizzard spider mines fucking RIDICULOUS - i have to have obs everywhere on the map or my army instantly evaporates" Like seriously, can you imagine the brood war whine fest there would be if the games positions in time were in reverse? "omg dark swarm, omg irradiate, omg psi storm, omg lurker kill entire worker line in two shot, omg omg omg" Seriously, stop. Stuff like this is exactly what brood war had and look at how fucking balanced brood war is. It's good that each race gets some things that appear at first sight to be ridiculous, because in reality they won't be. what makes brood war brilliant is how EVERYTHING is overpowered. but the different races overpoweredness balances each other out. what i dislike about sc2 is that it seems rather than make everything overpowered to balance the game theyve gone for everything boringly normal. althought to be fair with clumping it makes it a hard job. as a 1 bw style storm would probably kill a 200/200 ball army although i kind of disagreed with blue flame hellions being as overpowered as they were, because they were so fast as well. with any other harrass unit reacting quickly and running your probes allowed you to take minimal damage but hellions speed + splash system meant running probes usually cost you more casualties | ||
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Gigaudas
Sweden1213 Posts
What dislike is that I feel like Terran is already very well defended against harassing Zerglings, encouraging the Zerg to keep all of his army in one place at a time. Harass being automatically handled is BAD, challenging the gamers is GOOD. | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On October 31 2011 09:38 Plexa wrote: Doesn't seem too bad to be honest. But I don't think it's another thing that Terran needs in their arsenal. I think it would be much better suited to Protoss whose drop play already isn't that good (in comparison) and would benefit from a unit that's able to zone out areas (think speedling counters vs muta/ling). Yeah, I would also like to have the shredder...seems like it would complement the protoss-arsenal pretty well. Good vs run-bys (terrans already have tanks and planetary ffs), useful for drops and impossible to just add into the 1a-deathball, that so many have been complaining about since release. I'd gladly trade it for the oracle....or the replicator...or the tempest now that I think of it  On October 31 2011 22:55 Gigaudas wrote: Harass being automatically handled is BAD, challenging the gamers is GOOD. if they add the shredder to terran, they should just remove the planetary....why not? | ||
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dbosworld
United States317 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
We know two things as fact for the shredder. In game time, it has an 8 second siege time, and it does 20 damage every second. Those lings wouldnt have been able to hit it that much, and the drones would have been 2 shot. | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
On October 31 2011 22:59 Cyro wrote: The shredder stats are WRONG. It does 20dps. Drones are shown surviving three damage ticks, how is this possible? They have 40hp. We know two things as fact for the shredder. In game time, it has an 8 second siege time, and it does 20 damage every second. Those lings wouldnt have been able to hit it that much, and the drones would have been 2 shot. 40+1regeneration? | ||
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gakkgakk
Norway902 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
No, they survive 3 hits. They dont start dieing til the fourth. If it did 20 damage, it would take them to 1hp with 2 hits and kill them with a third, but it takes 4 hits to kill. Look at the lings, they definatly dont get two shot either, even though they have 35hp. | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
At least now I can drink my chalice of Z and P tears again. Cheers. | ||
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Mehukannu
Finland421 Posts
On October 31 2011 23:03 Psychobabas wrote: Hilarious that Zergs and Protoss are crying already. At least now I can drink my chalice of Z and P tears again. Cheers. Mmmm, so good protoss and zerg tears. Cheers | ||
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