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The Powert of the Shredder - Drops and Defense vid - Page 18

Forum Index > SC2 General
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CaptainCrush
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States785 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 15:34:11
October 31 2011 15:33 GMT
#341
I love how everyone results to insta-whining... Im sure the DPS will be decreased before HotS... relax people, sheesh....

This is almost exactly what a terran needs in TvZ, especially when a douchy zerg waits and waits for the terran to move just enought that he can run in and kill all building add-ons.
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 15:42:06
October 31 2011 15:41 GMT
#342
On October 31 2011 23:29 Noocta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2011 23:18 kmh wrote:
On October 31 2011 23:17 aksfjh wrote:
It's not even GSL, it's ONLY Code S. Code A even has a rather small showing for T.

That being said, there are things about the shredder than we don't know, like if the damage aura stacks. Do we even know if the range is the same from Blizzcon to this mod?


That the damage does not stack has been confirmed by blizzard. It's right there in their presentation. As for the range I cannot say.


Range is 3 btw.

That make the only unit able to kill them without being hit are Hydra.

Unless you have new information since blizzcon, it has to be greater than 3. Roaches (range 4) were attacking them in a video well within the range. Right now, it has to be 5 or 6. If it's any less than that, it will be absolutely useless as any sort of choke holder since every army has easy access to range 6 units.
Elean
Profile Joined October 2010
689 Posts
October 31 2011 15:46 GMT
#343
swarm host looks so weak.
20 of them, it should be as powerfull as 20 siege tanks. But we arenet even close to it.
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
October 31 2011 16:06 GMT
#344
On November 01 2011 00:33 CaptainCrush wrote:
I love how everyone results to insta-whining... Im sure the DPS will be decreased before HotS... relax people, sheesh....

This is almost exactly what a terran needs in TvZ, especially when a douchy zerg waits and waits for the terran to move just enought that he can run in and kill all building add-ons.


Because a bunker and some marines is too much to ask?
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
Mehukannu
Profile Joined October 2010
Finland421 Posts
October 31 2011 16:09 GMT
#345
On November 01 2011 00:23 TALegion wrote:
I hope that the replicant is a flying unit and just hovering. That way, you can fly into the mineral line of a terran and replicate a shredder from far away

It already has unlimited range with the replicate ability. You only need to scout for the unit you want to replicate and then do it safely in your warm and fuzzy base.
C=('. ' Q)
TALegion
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1187 Posts
October 31 2011 16:12 GMT
#346
On November 01 2011 01:09 Mehukannu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 00:23 TALegion wrote:
I hope that the replicant is a flying unit and just hovering. That way, you can fly into the mineral line of a terran and replicate a shredder from far away

It already has unlimited range with the replicate ability. You only need to scout for the unit you want to replicate and then do it safely in your warm and fuzzy base.

Yeah, but the flying part is for the easy, "drop," instead of having to utilize a warp prism.
Unfortunately, this unit sounds almost entirely created for TvZ, and its usage in TvP sounds very limited (to say the least...).
A person willing to die for a cause is a hero. A person willing to kill for a cause is a madman
immanentblue
Profile Joined January 2011
Denmark110 Posts
October 31 2011 16:26 GMT
#347
I also dont know if shredders will be such a problem... the easiest way to kill the shredder seems to just explode it with banelings, who dies anyway when they explode (or explode when they die, however you like it), and splashes the shredder... it might be normal to have a couple of buried banelings behind your mineral line, to automaticly take care of the shredders... i mean, if terran drops marines behind your minerals, they will also kill a lot of workers if you dont have banes close... thats just how it is...
Zoia
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States419 Posts
October 31 2011 16:46 GMT
#348
They don't seem like a problem harassment wise especially at a high level when you can react fast enough.
www.twitch.tv/starcraftsquad - Caster for Playhem.tv
Pred8oar
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany281 Posts
October 31 2011 16:49 GMT
#349
On November 01 2011 00:33 CaptainCrush wrote:
I love how everyone results to insta-whining... Im sure the DPS will be decreased before HotS... relax people, sheesh....

This is almost exactly what a terran needs in TvZ, especially when a douchy zerg waits and waits for the terran to move just enought that he can run in and kill all building add-ons.


yeah wall ins, bunker and pfs aswell as a single tank left behind isnt enough. other races dont have to deal with counterattacks aswell? its normal strategy and imo the last thing terran needed was this shredder.
Deleted User 183001
Profile Joined May 2011
2939 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 16:54:04
October 31 2011 16:53 GMT
#350
On October 31 2011 23:29 Noocta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2011 23:18 kmh wrote:
On October 31 2011 23:17 aksfjh wrote:
It's not even GSL, it's ONLY Code S. Code A even has a rather small showing for T.

That being said, there are things about the shredder than we don't know, like if the damage aura stacks. Do we even know if the range is the same from Blizzcon to this mod?


That the damage does not stack has been confirmed by blizzard. It's right there in their presentation. As for the range I cannot say.


Range is 3 btw.

That make the only unit able to kill them without being hit are Hydra.

Don't forget the roflroaches, mate . But I think the radius of the Shredder is more than 3. :S
UndoneJin
Profile Joined February 2011
United States438 Posts
October 31 2011 16:57 GMT
#351
How can you nerf something that isn't actually officially part of the game, people are fucking crazy....

I think the shredder will end up somewhere in the neighborhood of 14-16 DPS, and I would be surprised if you could drop them.

The BC upgrade is necessary, to be able to to stop vikings from kiting is very important for TvT late-game.

I still think the swarm host makes the least sense of all the new units. It's almost like you really really wanted to put the lurker back in, but just couldnt quite bring yourself to do it, (I assume because of balance?) so you make this weird watered-down unit that isn't going to be powerful unless it's a very specific situation.
I've been lost since the day I was born ----- You're gonna carry that weight
Tippecanoe
Profile Joined May 2011
United States342 Posts
October 31 2011 17:01 GMT
#352
Marine drops do more than 20 dps and have lots of retention with the medivac.

The shredder needs to be burrowed for 5 seconds and if you don't pull your drones out in time the same outcome happens if you don't pull drones away from a marine drop.

The shredder once burrowed is committed to sitting there and doing damage while a marine drop can just simply lift away.

Also 1 spine can kill 1 shredder b4 it even gets a shot off.

Just some food for thought.

Also the Swarm host is kind of op.. no actually it is op.

With the only range limit being the timer of the locusts themselves they can actually have something like 30 range. Kind of redic.
Krikkitone
Profile Joined April 2009
United States1451 Posts
October 31 2011 17:04 GMT
#353
On November 01 2011 02:01 Tippecanoe wrote:
Also the Swarm host is kind of op.. no actually it is op.

With the only range limit being the timer of the locusts themselves they can actually have something like 30 range. Kind of redic.


but the dps declines with range
at 10 range enemy units get 2/3 of the maximum damage
at 20 range enemy units get 1/3 of the maximum damage
excellent for a space control unit
Gigaudas
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Sweden1213 Posts
October 31 2011 17:08 GMT
#354
On October 31 2011 23:33 BlitzerSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2011 22:55 Gigaudas wrote:
Commenting on whether it is OP or not seems pointless - the stats can always be changed.

What dislike is that I feel like Terran is already very well defended against harassing Zerglings, encouraging the Zerg to keep all of his army in one place at a time.

Harass being automatically handled is BAD, challenging the gamers is GOOD.


Taking a third on maps like Metallopolis is ALMOST impossible as terran because a competent zerg will always attack your expo and run away as soon as he sees your units. The same can be said for protoss, but warp-in kinda help against that.

And please stop saying that siege tanks and PF helps defending.
Siege tanks do too little damage so defending an expansion with JUST tanks is not suitable.
A PF needs time to morph and a zerg can take an advantage from that.


If that makes Terran UP, then buff another aspect of Terran. My point wasn't to claim "OP". Debating whether something is overpowered before its stats are actually final is kind of dumb. My point was that automatically negating harass is bad for the skill cap and entertainment value of the game. Harass should be negated by the player having to actively negate it - not a unit that does it automatically.
I
aderum
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Sweden1459 Posts
October 31 2011 17:13 GMT
#355
Cool video but i feel like this is irrelevant, we should really just wait until beta before we make any assumptions.
Crazy people dont sit around and wonder if they are insane
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
October 31 2011 17:20 GMT
#356
I think all the new units are clearly either OP and should be nerfed.
Bora Pain minha porra!
Tippecanoe
Profile Joined May 2011
United States342 Posts
October 31 2011 17:28 GMT
#357
On November 01 2011 02:04 Krikkitone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 02:01 Tippecanoe wrote:
Also the Swarm host is kind of op.. no actually it is op.

With the only range limit being the timer of the locusts themselves they can actually have something like 30 range. Kind of redic.


but the dps declines with range
at 10 range enemy units get 2/3 of the maximum damage
at 20 range enemy units get 1/3 of the maximum damage
excellent for a space control unit


Then you realize the only reason why the unit is good is because the tanks are doing the damage.

Doesnt matter how much damage the actual locust does all that matters is that the locusts live just long enough so that even 1 tank shot does some friendly fire.
QTIP.
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2113 Posts
October 31 2011 17:29 GMT
#358
Try to remember guys - It's the idea of the unit that is important for discussion. Stats / cost / energy can all be adjusted in an attempt to bring it closer to actual balance. The idea is the critical component of the new units that needs to be discussed, this will not change barring a major unit-redesign.

My take on the shredder: Unit that can control space or be used to defend hard-to-reach expansions extremely well. A bit redundant considering the potency of PF's and Turrets. Can be very powerful in protecting siege tank lines from massive flanks. Cool idea, stats are something that need to be tweaked. Very abusable in its current state, similar to the assimilator cannon rush.
"Trash Micro but Win. Its Marin." - Min Chul
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
October 31 2011 17:45 GMT
#359
Oh yeah, i always forgot roaches have 4 range now. I guess it have 4 range so, because queens looked almost out of the range.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
October 31 2011 17:56 GMT
#360
On November 01 2011 02:29 QTIP. wrote:
Try to remember guys - It's the idea of the unit that is important for discussion. Stats / cost / energy can all be adjusted in an attempt to bring it closer to actual balance. The idea is the critical component of the new units that needs to be discussed, this will not change barring a major unit-redesign.

My take on the shredder: Unit that can control space or be used to defend hard-to-reach expansions extremely well. A bit redundant considering the potency of PF's and Turrets. Can be very powerful in protecting siege tank lines from massive flanks. Cool idea, stats are something that need to be tweaked. Very abusable in its current state, similar to the assimilator cannon rush.

I really don't see the shredder being used to deny far expansions. The effective control it would have could be emulated with simply a hellion, marine, or even a engineering bay... Without backup near to take advantage of the resources spent to take it down, there is no threat of doing so. It's almost the equivalent of forcing your opponent to attack rocks and abusing the positioning to gain an advantage. Being forced to approach an area a specific way is what the shredder does, along with a direct counter to insignificant but deadly/annoying counter attacks. It basically does all the things tanks are supposed to do but can't because of their drawbacks and nerfs.
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