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The Powert of the Shredder - Drops and Defense vid - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
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darkest44
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1009 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 05:09:34
October 31 2011 04:59 GMT
#181
20 stim marines probably coulda cleared that base faster than the minute it took those 20 swarm hosts for 1/2 or 1/3 the supply and like 1/6th the cost lol. Not even beta or the real game though, hopefully blizz will balance shit out but some of these units idk... gluck blizz lol..
gohbot
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17 Posts
October 31 2011 05:03 GMT
#182
Haha I feel like blizzard is trolling all the haters out there. It's obvious they see it as a defensive unit Which fits right into the whole terran mentality. I feel like they r fully aware of it's op state in the example videos and will surely at the least add nerds that would prevent it from being too offensive like not being able to enter medivacs or a largely increased set up time plus slower movement speed to make it less mobile. David Kim is just trololol right now
Go go go bots
usethis2
Profile Joined December 2010
2164 Posts
October 31 2011 05:07 GMT
#183
Obviously the stats/cost will be adjusted for balance, but the concept of shredder is quite sad. It's literally a set-it-and-forget-it unit for defense, and there isn't much maneuvability for offense, either. No target firing since it simply grinds things around it, too slow to move around due to burrow. Only thing a T can do is to find a nice spot and throw it down then see how it goes. No more action required or achievable. If things go well maybe you can pick it back up and throw it elsewhere. But that's just about it.

Lame a-move unit concept, IMO. I mean, it doesn't even move, lol.
Sovern
Profile Joined March 2011
United States312 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 05:12:00
October 31 2011 05:10 GMT
#184
On October 31 2011 09:46 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2011 09:42 Sadistx wrote:
On October 31 2011 09:38 Plexa wrote:
Doesn't seem too bad to be honest. But I don't think it's another thing that Terran needs in their arsenal. I think it would be much better suited to Protoss whose drop play already isn't that good (in comparison) and would benefit from a unit that's able to zone out areas (think speedling counters vs muta/ling).


Warp prism + sentries + HT. There, it's already in the game. It's more expensive than say T's drops, but just as if not more powerful.

Protoss drops are fine.
Protoss drops are fine, they're just less accessible than Terrans. That means that protoss wouldn't be dropping these as frequently as Terrans would be, and if they were I would wager that they become vulnerable to mutalisks or strong roach/hydra counter pushes.

Show nested quote +
On October 31 2011 09:43 Geovu wrote:
srsly though Plexa how can you watch that video and think "Yah I think this might be able to work"

:S
I don't see why its much of an issue. It looks like queens can take them down just fine? Mass queen vs Protoss is common anyway. I have a feeling once people learn how to deal with them properly they won't be an issue. Obviously they solution isn't sending mass lings through a choke to clear them out

Show nested quote +
On October 31 2011 09:43 Adeeler wrote:
On October 31 2011 09:38 Plexa wrote:
Doesn't seem too bad to be honest. But I don't think it's another thing that Terran needs in their arsenal. I think it would be much better suited to Protoss whose drop play already isn't that good (in comparison) and would benefit from a unit that's able to zone out areas (think speedling counters vs muta/ling).


Protoss still have Psi-Storm which can still be used in the BW fashion of dropping mineral lines. In SC2 ppl just don't have the time to do it often due to the tiny maps.

How many people think "oh yes I'm going to go rush to storm and prism to storm drop!" no one. It's a late game tactic, and hence, as I've been implying, Protoss drops are not as accessible as Terrans which makes shredder drops less likely if they were a protoss unit.


Toss drops seem pretty accessible to me. A robo can be produced pretty darn fast and warp prism can be produced fast especially when chronoed.

Personally I think that warp prisms just need more utility. Blizzard should remove the warp prism speed upgrade and introduce an upgrade that heals the shields of protoss units. That would give them much more utility and would actually be a cool HOTS toss upgrade. Players would also have more of a reason to get the shield upgrades for their units.
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
October 31 2011 05:11 GMT
#185
Wait, terran the race that already has blue-flame hellion drops and stim marine drops needs yet another way to devastate a mineral line?
Warlock40
Profile Joined September 2011
601 Posts
October 31 2011 05:13 GMT
#186
Lame a-move unit concept, IMO. I mean, it doesn't even move, lol.


I don't understand how you arrived at that conclusion. The Shredder is the complete opposite of "a-move". An a-move unit would be the Battle Hellion or Warhound. You just throw them in your deathball and keep on trucking. Shredder on the other hand opens up many new possibilities for Terran matchups, even without the ability to harass. They're like spider mines, perhaps less micro-intensive but still fully capable of zoning the opponent and helping Terran establish area control. It's as anti a-move as you get. The fact that they are ineffective when in range of your units means you really need to pay attention to unit spacing. This is probably the most interesting unit of the expansion pack in terms of how many doors it opens up for gameplay.
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6788 Posts
October 31 2011 05:13 GMT
#187
Hey I liked the fast battlecruisers :D
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
OptimusYale
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)1005 Posts
October 31 2011 05:16 GMT
#188
I was playing around on the HotS map before work and I dont really play the races, but to me a shredder should have some kind of no burrow on creep....Drop a few of these bad boys with a few rines to cover and its pretty much GG....as the rines will die just after the shredder has been grounded....
usethis2
Profile Joined December 2010
2164 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 05:21:47
October 31 2011 05:20 GMT
#189
On October 31 2011 14:13 Warlock40 wrote:
Show nested quote +
Lame a-move unit concept, IMO. I mean, it doesn't even move, lol.


I don't understand how you arrived at that conclusion. The Shredder is the complete opposite of "a-move". An a-move unit would be the Battle Hellion or Warhound. You just throw them in your deathball and keep on trucking. Shredder on the other hand opens up many new possibilities for Terran matchups, even without the ability to harass. They're like spider mines, perhaps less micro-intensive but still fully capable of zoning the opponent and helping Terran establish area control. It's as anti a-move as you get. The fact that they are ineffective when in range of your units means you really need to pay attention to unit spacing. This is probably the most interesting unit of the expansion pack in terms of how many doors it opens up for gameplay.

Read my whole post. Yeah a-move wasn't a right word, I just couldn't find the fitting word to describe its idiocy and noob-friendliness.

Edit: Quoted it for you.

On October 31 2011 14:07 usethis2 wrote:
Obviously the stats/cost will be adjusted for balance, but the concept of shredder is quite sad. It's literally a set-it-and-forget-it unit for defense, and there isn't much maneuvability for offense, either. No target firing since it simply grinds things around it, too slow to move around due to burrow. Only thing a T can do is to find a nice spot and throw it down then see how it goes. No more action required or achievable. If things go well maybe you can pick it back up and throw it elsewhere. But that's just about it.

Lame a-move unit concept, IMO. I mean, it doesn't even move, lol.

Warlock40
Profile Joined September 2011
601 Posts
October 31 2011 05:28 GMT
#190
I read your whole post and I disagree with you. It's not noob-friendly at all but a powerful tool in the right hands. It's not meant to kill off armies, it's meant to close off avenues of approach to allow a smart Terran to stagger his defensive lines. It is nothing like a fire-and-forget weapon, unless you want to waste a bunch of resources to kill a few zerglings.
usethis2
Profile Joined December 2010
2164 Posts
October 31 2011 05:36 GMT
#191
On October 31 2011 14:28 Warlock40 wrote:
I read your whole post and I disagree with you. It's not noob-friendly at all but a powerful tool in the right hands. It's not meant to kill off armies, it's meant to close off avenues of approach to allow a smart Terran to stagger his defensive lines. It is nothing like a fire-and-forget weapon, unless you want to waste a bunch of resources to kill a few zerglings.

Well them maybe you could counter my argument instead of nitpicking at the choice of a word in the last sentence? Sorry if I sound aggressive but I tend not to like selective quoting completely out of context. I have suggested that this unit will not require much action from a T player (even if s/he desires) due to its nature and the simplicity of the unit will make it extremely hard to balance it at the high-level (it will either be OP or UP).
Nagisama
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada4481 Posts
October 31 2011 05:38 GMT
#192
it was only a matter of time before battlecruisers got stim pack upgrade.
Calendar"Everyone who has accomplished more than you has no life; Everyone who has accomplished less than you is a noob." | Elem: "nagi is actually really smart"
R4TM
Profile Joined June 2011
Brazil140 Posts
October 31 2011 05:38 GMT
#193
this actually made me laugh so hard when i watched it on stream and made me start thinking how stupid starcraft 2 is going to become and understand why starcraft 1 will ALWAYS be the best RTS EVER.

User was banned for this post.
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10382 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 05:40:11
October 31 2011 05:39 GMT
#194
On October 31 2011 14:07 usethis2 wrote:
Obviously the stats/cost will be adjusted for balance, but the concept of shredder is quite sad. It's literally a set-it-and-forget-it unit for defense, and there isn't much maneuvability for offense, either. No target firing since it simply grinds things around it, too slow to move around due to burrow. Only thing a T can do is to find a nice spot and throw it down then see how it goes. No more action required or achievable. If things go well maybe you can pick it back up and throw it elsewhere. But that's just about it.

Lame a-move unit concept, IMO. I mean, it doesn't even move, lol.


Good point. I thinkt hey shoudl just give spidermines to hellions lol. It would help them vs Zealots too. Then maybe they wouldn't need Battle Hellion mode.

Btw the thrust on the BCs... it doesnt cost energy??? thought it costed at least 25? no?
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
Krehlmar
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1149 Posts
October 31 2011 05:41 GMT
#195
Terran doesn't deserve it, it's that simple. They already have to good drops with the best dps in the game; Marines and the best building killer in the game; Marauders.

Why would they need a mobile psyhic storm droid?
My Comment Doesnt Matter Because No One Reads It
Warlock40
Profile Joined September 2011
601 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 05:44:23
October 31 2011 05:43 GMT
#196
You don't like selective quoting yet you dismissed my first post based off the first two sentences. But that's besides the point. You suggest that this unit will not require much action from a Terran player. I argue that it requires a lot of action from a Terran player not just to keep it alive but make it worthwhile. The beauty of the unit is in the simplicity of its function (no silly war3 spells here) belying the complexity of its design. Think of it this way. Whereas the Warhound is just a boring (though perhaps necessary) unit like the Marauder, the Shredder is similar to the Siege Tank. Siege Tanks might not seem to require a lot of micro but they do.

Will it be hard to balance? Aside from the worker harass function which might not have been intended, nope. It's pretty much a mini-planetary fortress that can't be repaired...
R4TM
Profile Joined June 2011
Brazil140 Posts
October 31 2011 05:47 GMT
#197
On October 31 2011 09:31 razy wrote:
[image loading]

User was warned for this post


this made me laugh too because it will be the terran players who will QQ when it get scraped.
usethis2
Profile Joined December 2010
2164 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 05:49:27
October 31 2011 05:48 GMT
#198
I did not dismiss your "smart stagger" idea. So you're suggesting something like:

Tank ------------ Tank ------------- Tank ------------ Tank
-------- Shredder ---- Shredder --- Shredder ---

Planetary ---------- Planetary -------- Planetary
-------- Shredder ---- Shredder --- Shredder ---

I assume?

What kind of micro does it require other then, well setting it up? How would you balance such a line, when there is no player action is required for the unit to function as intended?
d3_crescentia
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States4054 Posts
October 31 2011 05:49 GMT
#199
Easy fix, make Shredder require Fusion Core.
once, not long ago, there was a moon here
Sovern
Profile Joined March 2011
United States312 Posts
October 31 2011 05:50 GMT
#200
On October 31 2011 14:41 Krehlmar wrote:
Terran doesn't deserve it, it's that simple. They already have to good drops with the best dps in the game; Marines and the best building killer in the game; Marauders.

Why would they need a mobile psyhic storm droid?


I'd hope that blizzard makes it so that you cant drop it in medivacs and make it so that it doesn't affect workers. What terran really needs is more/better meching and positioning units that can deal with toss/zerg units. Right now mech is garbage TvP and bio/mech is way better than mech TvZ.

Toss really needs upgrades that gives their units more utility later in the game since they're the tech race, upgrades such as an upgrade that increases the shields of immortals, allows warp prisms to heal shields until they reach 0, a new unit that you can get from the robo that is a siege based unit that can be burrowed.

Zerg really just needs a siege unit and possibly remove fungal from the infestor and add in an ability that decreases the range of all enemy units to 1 if they're in the spells cloud radius.
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