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On November 20 2011 02:06 MysteryHours wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 01:21 MerciLess wrote:
It's still a great game, better than 99% of other games out there in my opinion. But it's still only a pale shadow of the greatness that BW was. And it seems like whoever at Blizzard is in charge of design and balance has no fucking idea what they are doing. So SC2 is better than 99% of other games out there, but the people who designed it have "no fucking idea what they are doing"? How do you explain the thriving high level scene if the game balance and design are so abysmal?
Exaggerating is awesome and makes you look cool, especially when it's about blizzard/activision or SC2 devs.
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On November 20 2011 01:21 MerciLess wrote:
Anyone that played Brood War even casually knows that SC2 isn't even half the game that BW was. It's still a great game, better than 99% of other games out there in my opinion. But it's still only a pale shadow of the greatness that BW was. And it seems like whoever at Blizzard is in charge of design and balance has no fucking idea what they are doing. I'm beginning to suspect we have a shitty B team working on this game, because while the three races all technically fit together, it's sloppy. Instead of making everything balanced, a few things are really overpowered or really underpowered to even it out. None of the match ups really seem to flow, except for TvZ, but that's still not perfect. I feel like when a problem is identified in Starcraft 2, instead of using surgery to fix it, the design team uses a .357.
lmao at calling BW the best game ever and then faulting SC2 for the very things that made BW so great (few overpowered units/spells that everything revolved around).
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On November 20 2011 02:21 RinconH wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 01:21 MerciLess wrote:
Anyone that played Brood War even casually knows that SC2 isn't even half the game that BW was. It's still a great game, better than 99% of other games out there in my opinion. But it's still only a pale shadow of the greatness that BW was. And it seems like whoever at Blizzard is in charge of design and balance has no fucking idea what they are doing. I'm beginning to suspect we have a shitty B team working on this game, because while the three races all technically fit together, it's sloppy. Instead of making everything balanced, a few things are really overpowered or really underpowered to even it out. None of the match ups really seem to flow, except for TvZ, but that's still not perfect. I feel like when a problem is identified in Starcraft 2, instead of using surgery to fix it, the design team uses a .357. lmao at calling BW the best game ever and then faulting SC2 for the very things that made BW so great (few overpowered units/spells that everything revolved around).
why is it such a stretch to consider BW the best game ever? it's been played competitively on a relatively large scale longer than any other video game, and it's evolved to the point of requiring an incredible amount of skill simply to play at a "recreational" level. i think if nothing less, brood war is the best RTS ever made.
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On November 20 2011 02:30 FuRRyChoBo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 02:21 RinconH wrote:On November 20 2011 01:21 MerciLess wrote:
Anyone that played Brood War even casually knows that SC2 isn't even half the game that BW was. It's still a great game, better than 99% of other games out there in my opinion. But it's still only a pale shadow of the greatness that BW was. And it seems like whoever at Blizzard is in charge of design and balance has no fucking idea what they are doing. I'm beginning to suspect we have a shitty B team working on this game, because while the three races all technically fit together, it's sloppy. Instead of making everything balanced, a few things are really overpowered or really underpowered to even it out. None of the match ups really seem to flow, except for TvZ, but that's still not perfect. I feel like when a problem is identified in Starcraft 2, instead of using surgery to fix it, the design team uses a .357. lmao at calling BW the best game ever and then faulting SC2 for the very things that made BW so great (few overpowered units/spells that everything revolved around). why is it such a stretch to consider BW the best game ever? it's been played competitively on a relatively large scale longer than any other video game, and it's evolved to the point of requiring an incredible amount of skill simply to play at a "recreational" level. i think if nothing less, brood war is the best RTS ever made.
What he was saying is that it's weird to complain about SC2 having overpowered units/spells when that is one of the things most people like about BW.
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I really like the new zerg units, but terran is ok, and protoss is totally meh. Too many air units and nothing really that well-rounded or interesting.
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I am unsure why you would be worried, or passing judgement on a game that hasn't been released yet...or is even in beta. Just because a unit or ability is announced doesn't mean it's going to be in the final release in the same way. Things change all the time. Be patient.
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Yeah i know how this goes, blizzard is tampering with a game that i think is a really good game and transforming all of their games to make it like WoW cause it sells good and they make loads of cash from it.
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Remake this thread at the end of HOTS Beta. Do you remember how many units were cut and or changed over the course of Wings of Liberty Beta?
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On November 18 2011 06:11 Orracle wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 05:31 KingPwny wrote:Lol@ this post. Ur commenting on HotS before it even comes out is quite silly sir! I think instead of worrying about sc2 going in the wrong direction (for u), u should consider how nice it is not to have to worry about say, dragoon-like AI which is just plain ridiculous. I dunno why, I honestly think ppl just like to whine sometimes? hehe. Ty for ur opnion, I strongly disagree  The problem with people arguing about TT1's post is the majority are newer generation players (I'm assuming like you) who never played Broodwars competitively other than some BGH, FMP, or UMS. The races meshed perfectly. The game didn't baby players with this insane unit pathing, and simplified mechanics. One bad engagement on SC2 and you're playing catch up the whole game, and likely will never recover if your opponent has half a brain. I believe TT1 is doing great by voicing his opinion. Some of these units they want to add to HOTS are just insane, and he's stepping up to let them know that. Will community voice generally change their mind? I highly doubt it.
Well ye I am a new player sir And I didnt see that it was TT1 that was posting it. And as I said b4, that maybe it came out wrong cos so many ppl complain about balance and game design etc. Yes the HotS units are pretty crazy, but it remains to be seen if they will make it tp MP? BEcause I doubt that even half will...And if they do, they will be meshed in to the already existing units. Let's not forget that BW and sc2 are made by the same ppl hehe I Think we should reserve judgement until HotS comes out, that's all I am saying. Then we can voice our opinion. But doing it now, is kinda like putting the horse b4 the cart and to what avail? Blizz will do as they plz right now....
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Hots wont be out in forever. Can we chill the fuck out?
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On November 20 2011 02:03 tetracycloide wrote:
I keep reading comments like 'the replicant doesn't fit in the Starcraft universe' and wonder if this people cannot grasp the obvious similarity with mind control from Brood War and Nural Parasite. Obviously there are slight differences between the three but the end result is the same: control of an enemy unit. Hardly seems out of place IMHO.
The difference is that mind control and neural parasite (NPing a worker -> nexus/cc) are both incredibly difficult and situational; with a replicator, you just need to have vision and that zerg / terran base is yours. There's much less risk-reward--if you want a siege tank BAM you have it.
On November 20 2011 20:26 Belano wrote:
Hots wont be out in forever. Can we chill the fuck out?
The more HotS gets discussed, the better HotS will be when it does come out.
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On November 20 2011 20:09 KingPwny wrote: Let's not forget that BW and sc2 are made by the same ppl hehe
Barely, all of the designers for BW are working for other companies now (most of them are startups), same as Diablo II (see Torchlight).
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On November 20 2011 02:21 RinconH wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 01:21 MerciLess wrote:
Anyone that played Brood War even casually knows that SC2 isn't even half the game that BW was. It's still a great game, better than 99% of other games out there in my opinion. But it's still only a pale shadow of the greatness that BW was. And it seems like whoever at Blizzard is in charge of design and balance has no fucking idea what they are doing. I'm beginning to suspect we have a shitty B team working on this game, because while the three races all technically fit together, it's sloppy. Instead of making everything balanced, a few things are really overpowered or really underpowered to even it out. None of the match ups really seem to flow, except for TvZ, but that's still not perfect. I feel like when a problem is identified in Starcraft 2, instead of using surgery to fix it, the design team uses a .357. lmao at calling BW the best game ever and then faulting SC2 for the very things that made BW so great (few overpowered units/spells that everything revolved around).
if you read the thread, you would know that the real discussion is not about overpowered abilities or units. it is about the design philosophy blizzard sc2 team has adopted.
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the bw praising is quiet funny in this thread. Hope people still remember playing sc1, especially the terrans. I mean i still play bw more then sc2, but I also accept that sc2 is another game with the mechanic improvements and everything, and that bw would never work in such an enviroment, but that removing those mechanics would just make an outdated game.
I prefer bw still because of mech x3. But what i love about sc2 is that you can micro your heart out almost all of the time, even if you aren't that good. But that doesn't mean you can beat a good player. Because they can micro at 2 places at ones if they are better then you or micro better in general etc.
I always love games that turn out to have 4 different places of constant battles. Thats something that rarely happens in bw, since unmicroed units are super easy to kill with really little effort. In sc2 they still are bad, but they can do a lil damage at least.
The only thing that always disturbed me was the supply. Moving from bw, you always felt your army is so small. as if you only have 150 supply (including the workers). Thats mostly the higher tier units, while t1 stayed bw like. Making t1 quiet superior to t3 unless the t3 units stayed together. And well if t3 has to stay together while t1 is faster ...
But they noticed that problem and will correct it in HotS, well already did in WoL partly. So lets wait and see what new problems will arise.
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i gotta agree with those concerned with the art style, especially with terran.
some of the campaign units in WOL and also new units in HOTS look like super advanced robots from marvel comics...
what happened to the SC1 really junkyard scrap welded together style? it looked so much cooler.
now, everything is so clean one would think that these terran units are being constructed for royalty. i thought the whole selling point of the terran race is that war has torn them apart into pockets of corrupt officials, pirates and rebels. meaning that most are living in poverty and when they create a tank it's got bits falling off and leaves an oil slick behind it.
the sc2 art direction looks like blizzard are planning to canon the starcraft universe into the warcraft universe at some point. like they discover a xel'naga artifact that rips a hole through time and we get night elves as the forth race.
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On November 20 2011 20:34 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 20:09 KingPwny wrote: Let's not forget that BW and sc2 are made by the same ppl hehe Barely, all of the designers for BW are working for other companies now (most of them are startups), same as Diablo II (see Torchlight).
well most important the lead designer, Rob Pardo is still at blizzard
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On November 20 2011 21:22 shizna wrote:
i gotta agree with those concerned with the art style, especially with terran.
some of the campaign units in WOL and also new units in HOTS look like super advanced robots from marvel comics...
what happened to the SC1 really junkyard scrap welded together style? it looked so much cooler.
now, everything is so clean one would think that these terran units are being constructed for royalty. i thought the whole selling point of the terran race is that war has torn them apart into pockets of corrupt officials, pirates and rebels. meaning that most are living in poverty and when they create a tank it's got bits falling off and leaves an oil slick behind it.
the sc2 art direction looks like blizzard are planning to canon the starcraft universe into the warcraft universe at some point. like they discover a xel'naga artifact that rips a hole through time and we get night elves as the forth race.
The terran war machine isn't really in that sorry state , like in your example leaking out oils and stuff , more like terran experimented so much crazy ideas on a single unit to make it so powerful and dangerous to counter all the threats to humanity . Although I do agree , that I want the gritty looking terran design for the terran in sc2 back.
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On November 20 2011 20:34 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 20:09 KingPwny wrote: Let's not forget that BW and sc2 are made by the same ppl hehe Barely, all of the designers for BW are working for other companies now (most of them are startups), same as Diablo II (see Torchlight).
Sorry but you're wrong.
I don't know about BW but in a interview with the lead designer for Diablo 3 he said that a majority of his development team worked on Diablo 2 and LoD.
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TT1 everytime i see one of your posts it just makes me hate protoss players more.
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On November 20 2011 22:30 Santi wrote:
TT1 everytime i see one of your posts it just makes me hate protoss players more.
Well that doesn't make any sense one person can't represent a whole community.
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EPT
