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Guys guys...Activision/Vivendi's purchase of the company + World of Warcraft changed blizzard altogether. Everything in the new games is made for mere constant, mindless grinding. Just look at battle.net -2.0 for a second:
Hey, let's go chat...no channels (what was added later is a joke of an attempt at a chat channels system)
Hey, let's form a clan...no clan system
Hey, let's play some UMS...the ums sysem blows a tornado away
Hey, let's play LAN with friends and shit....no LAN
Hey, let's watch replays together...no you WILL NOT
You honestly believe they DON'T KNOW what works and doesn't? They do, they just, quite simply DO NOT GIVE A FUCK about you or me.
HotS is geared to become an expansion pack just like the ones you get for WoW where - nothing is fixed, you just get 'new content' to have fun with for 6 months before calling quits again and waiting for the next 'expansion'.
And once HotS sucks too, there's always LotV waiting.
Doesn't matter really, D3 is nearing its launch phase and it will be a new WoW-style money maker for blizz that will get all their attention while we're given more of the same bullshit:
'We're working diligently to introduce new features for sc2 players' - which can be roughly translated to:
'Sorry kids, we're busy adding a new grind quest for the WoW kids'
Just accept scbw and its legacy are dead, imagine sc2 is a different game, and take all of this with no seriousness. Hell, go make your own game company because at this rate, I don't even want to see what blizz will come up with once d3, sc2 and wow dry up.
World of Looney Dooney Tunes or Bob The Builder's constru-craft saga.
/spit
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I think that TvP is evolving into some sort of TvZ BW (ROFL)
They need a harrasement units to delay the terran push so they can be ready for it
Oh wait!!! they dont have that kind of unit !! LOL
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You guys rant about this like you have options to play other spectacular competitive games. Hey have fun with CoD. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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I also agree on the Replicant not fitting into the SC universe, as its only function is to copy enemy units which is crucial in a game which lives from its unique 3 races with completely different units and ways of playing.
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Well reguarding the Replicant remember how some unit was able to take control of another race back in the days of Starcraft/Broodwar? I think thats what they are trying to bring back. Its kinda like mind control. Its been a while so I don't remember what it was called back then.
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Before I start I want to say I agree with most of what you have said. A few things I disagree with.
On October 26 2011 11:34 TT1 wrote:- allowing banelings to move burrowed removes ovie/bane drop vs gate unit/collo balls micro battles in PvZ. Having burrowed banes in the late game just makes ff's useless so zergs wont need to upgrade drop anymore.
I agree that with the new toss units the core army composition for toss isn't going to change much if at all. So if the collosus is still at the core of the army tunneling banelings is gonna have no affect on zerg players researching drop as banes will just get shredded by collosus on their way in. With drop only the stalkers and sentries can attack them.(and even then an overlord has over 6 times the health as the 4 banelings it will be holding so they last longer too.) With tunnel
everything in the toss death ball can hit it including the collosus. Baneling tunneling seems to be a tvz change to encourage more ravens as now baneling mines will be more effective or at least encourage more scanning.
It seems to me that best way to break apart the toss deathball would be to specialize the collosus. I mean most of the time why bother with immortals the collosus can do everything the immortal can do and more. The best solution IMHO would be to do the same thing they did to the tank that is the collosus would still be able to splash marines but would be less good against roaches and marauders. They added the tempest to help with mutas when that is the advantage of being zerg. Toss goes heavy anti ground, zerg says fine deal with 200 supply of mutas. If blizzard really wanted to help the toss out it seems to me the upgrades to existing units would have been better. The phoenix is good against small numbers of mutas but when the numbers grow they just get overwhelmed unless you have perfect unit control one slip and its game over. Say at fleet becon tech the phoenix would have a range upgrade then micro would be the answer not some super specialized unit that is gonna be utterly useless when the zerg tech back to ground units.
In Starcraft 1 original there were problems some things were too easy to do. BW addressed these problems they didn't address it by deleteing units they addressed it by adding units. An expansion should not remove units imo.
Instead of adding a brand new unit just to address the 111 give upgrades to existing units say units warped in from a warp prism could be purchased at a discount or the zealot charge upgrade not only gave the zealots charge but increase their movement as well. Or even say giving feedback to the sentry and giving the templar something else instead I mean there is a million and one things they could change to help with this problem instead of just adding a 1 time unit just for that one rush. (all would have to be tested of course)
The new terran stuff they added seems to be geared towards encouraging mech play but with the carrier gone the toss lose one of their options against mech. 99% of terran players go bio vs toss for those who go mech there are a few ways to deal with it that is to go air or abuse the immobility. If you choose air and eventual transition to carriers is good because even vikings have trouble with carriers. The carrier just doesn't have a roll right now because of heavy bio compositions.
They removed the overseer because they said there was just no way to make it good because it was a unit that provided food. but instead of correcting the problem they removed it. Just say the overseer no longer provides food and make it cost some supply then you can buff its abilities.
The thor was moved to being a super unit now (effectively removing it) so it would not overlap with the goliath 2.0 but IMO the old thor still has its roll the new vehicle aa is going to be easier to pick off if they are left in mineral nodes to guard from muta attacks the thor was hard to pick off the thor is going to be the help if you want to bio against zerg and don't want to expend alot of supply defending your base. The warhound seems supply inefficient to fufill that roll.
Not every unit needs to be able to be used in all situations. Look at the terran BC which is effectively hardcountered by both zerg and toss but it occasionally finds its place in tvt when one terran gains air superiority.
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Pure conjecture. HotS is too early in its development cycle. This discussion is only meaningful once we get into beta.
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On November 19 2011 23:01 Sueco wrote:
Pure conjecture. HotS is too early in its development cycle. This discussion is only meaningful once we get into beta.
Funny thing that blizzard want these changes to be discussed by the community even though it is not in beta yet.
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On November 19 2011 05:46 Suvorov wrote:
Guys guys...Activision/Vivendi's purchase of the company + World of Warcraft changed blizzard altogether. Everything in the new games is made for mere constant, mindless grinding. Just look at battle.net -2.0 for a second:
Activision and Blizzard merged, Blizzard was not bought. Blizzard was heading in the direction it is now since Burning Crusade was released for WoW (which came long before the merger). WoW was much more grindy in it's original format.
It really does annoy me how people are so quick to blame the formation of Activision-Blizzard as the reason for an apparent drop in game quality, when money making grabs like WoW were released long before said merger even occurred.
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On October 26 2011 11:38 KeithONLINE wrote:I'm worried as well, HotS sounds like crap for protoss users. I already can't stand PvZ it's not going to be any more fun in HotS 
lol whiner lol
i mean how can you possibly say that pvz is going to be bad in hots when not even the beta of the game is out
that just doesnt make any sense at all imo
also: if you play it correctly pvz is not that hard if you have the right strategy that is not weak to mutas and youre generally fine (open obsever into 6gate blink into quick 3rd if you scout a spire /quick 4th gas with the observer/probe and youre fine)
after you have defended the mutalisks with blink/observers you build A LOT of canons at your 3rd and kill zerg
the other zerg styles are not that hard to scout and counter either
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I dont get what you people talk about oO
"drop in game quality"
what?
Isnt starcraft 2 one of the greatest games ever made? Wont diablo 3 most likely be one of the greatest games either?
I have no idea what kind of games you expect from blizzard, but "drop in game quality" can simply be BW fanboyism or Diablo nostalgica (Diablo 1 > Diablo 2, right?...)
I dont care about WoW in this argumentation, since i never cared about WoW. I simply never liked the game and the cost part of it, for me WoW is the right game to give blizzard some nerdmoney so they can still create the great games we all like and play.
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I see people stating baseless claims about a game that's not out.
I be laughing.
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On November 19 2011 23:53 TolEranceNA wrote:
I see people stating baseless claims about a game that's not out.
I be laughing.
have you ever thought HoTS is meant to be the "big patch" to WoL laughable mistakes? its not a new game, its just an expansion, something to ADD to the game
blizzard explained what they are trying to solve - BUT THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO DO IT -
can you fight mutalisks with a battecruiser with aoe? thinking it will save protoss is just ridiculous as it is having replicant in the game
everyone is saying protoss lacks aoe low tier to kill workers and light units, giving phoenix the ability to REALLY counter mutas is not that difficult, just put aoe upgrade to be research in the beacon, but blizzard wants to show their awesome big fat idiot new units, why? TO IMPRESS PLAYERS THAT DONT EVEN PLAY THIS GAME and we will keep getting bad balance, bad design and everything they can do bad just cause they dont want to do the right thing
its tiring to just wait and thats a brilliant topic to discuss that and do something
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On November 19 2011 14:27 terranghost wrote:Before I start I want to say I agree with most of what you have said. A few things I disagree with. Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 11:34 TT1 wrote:- allowing banelings to move burrowed removes ovie/bane drop vs gate unit/collo balls micro battles in PvZ. Having burrowed banes in the late game just makes ff's useless so zergs wont need to upgrade drop anymore. In Starcraft 1 original there were problems, some things were too easy to do. BW addressed these problems they didn't address it by deleting units they addressed it by adding units. An expansion should not remove units imo.
I think it's silly to act like the original Starcraft and its sequel are somehow equivalent. Brood War is not comparable to Heart of the Swarm as well. The original was a first try at a competitive game with unique races, obviously Blizzard was going to get things wrong that needed new units to fix. Starcraft II on the other hand is based on Brood War and is already a "complete game". It being an e-sports game really necessitates this. Any update to this would logically try to work within the existing structure and then simply revamp certain aspects of it. It's not at all like having a game mostly for fun that you just want to have the players have access to lots of units and strategies. Here, adding units could break the game.
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I totally feel you man...
For protoss I feel that the only good unit is the Oracle , it is sooooo fast ,it should be extremely useful, in general good idea.
(I still feel a little bit bad for it coz I cant kill workers with it xD, but u can shield minerals every so often , it can be a pain for the opponent)
Then i look at the replicant and I really dislike it , protoss I feel is already the most expensive race ...so protoss gets a unit that is expensive as hell just to copy another unit.I dont really know what to think for the new capital ship... I think that redesigning Carrier control(micro) would be a better solution.Rip momaship the most fun unit in the game.
Then I look at the Terran and to be honest I feel like they get what Terran race is about.
Still I am a little bit annoyed that the helion transformation is free, for the other units and changes I am very excited.
No spell casters there, making mech more viable, we should see less A move from Terrans vs Prottos.
Reaper ... oh reaper... yeah greatest scouting unit ever :D
Still I think that they are making Terran even more cost efficient than it is. While other races have to make their armies cost efficient by as said above spells or other means.I mean rarely can we see protoss or zerg overpower terran early game,unless they have some wacky tech build xD or really over extend themselves.At least it is the most forgiving race;p
Lastly with Zerg new units, I feel that at the moment they are a bit too strong(but that can be fixed).
I mean we have seen units like a viper and swarm host before. I think It will take the least amount of time for zergs to find
cool strategies with the new units.I am really worried for the lack of cheap detection(mobile),but I still think that zerg might be a dominant race for a while when hots comes out.Btw I am Zerg and I feel that in hots I'll have soooo many options in the mid game , im getting chills just thinking about it :D
I feel blizzard gets the Terran race and Zerg got what they wanted, but I think Blizzard doesn't get Protoss at all with this Hots expansion.I mean it is really silly for enigmatic protoss to copy inferior races especially zerg(aren't they like sworn enemies right?).
For those who want to get an idea on how hots feels right now ,in this stage of development .Look for the hots custom game.
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Anyone that played Brood War even casually knows that SC2 isn't even half the game that BW was. It's still a great game, better than 99% of other games out there in my opinion. But it's still only a pale shadow of the greatness that BW was. And it seems like whoever at Blizzard is in charge of design and balance has no fucking idea what they are doing. I'm beginning to suspect we have a shitty B team working on this game, because while the three races all technically fit together, it's sloppy. Instead of making everything balanced, a few things are really overpowered or really underpowered to even it out. None of the match ups really seem to flow, except for TvZ, but that's still not perfect. I feel like when a problem is identified in Starcraft 2, instead of using surgery to fix it, the design team uses a .357.
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Im worried that hots will fuck up alot of things, it will be like the WoL beta all over again.
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On November 19 2011 23:33 Shrewmy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 05:46 Suvorov wrote:
Guys guys...Activision/Vivendi's purchase of the company + World of Warcraft changed blizzard altogether. Everything in the new games is made for mere constant, mindless grinding. Just look at battle.net -2.0 for a second:
Activision and Blizzard merged, Blizzard was not bought. Blizzard was heading in the direction it is now since Burning Crusade was released for WoW (which came long before the merger). WoW was much more grindy in it's original format. It really does annoy me how people are so quick to blame the formation of Activision-Blizzard as the reason for an apparent drop in game quality, when money making grabs like WoW were released long before said merger even occurred.
He's just a silly whiner. The whole post is just exaggerations and hyperbole. Activision had nothing to do with WoW or D2 yet both those games were designed for grinding from the ground up.
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I keep reading comments like 'the replicant doesn't fit in the Starcraft universe' and wonder if this people cannot grasp the obvious similarity with mind control from Brood War and Nural Parasite. Obviously there are slight differences between the three but the end result is the same: control of an enemy unit. Hardly seems out of place IMHO.
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On November 20 2011 01:21 MerciLess wrote:
It's still a great game, better than 99% of other games out there in my opinion. But it's still only a pale shadow of the greatness that BW was. And it seems like whoever at Blizzard is in charge of design and balance has no fucking idea what they are doing.
So SC2 is better than 99% of other games out there, but the people who designed it have "no fucking idea what they are doing"?
How do you explain the thriving high level scene if the game balance and design are so abysmal?
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