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On October 27 2011 02:07 Jinx... wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 02:01 crocodile wrote:
I like the emp change as it was too strong before, but the upgrade changes don't make much sense to me. Double forge pvt for protoss is already strong so it'll be interesting to see how this affects that matchup. I agree, and to add, shield upgrade is like a bonus. No other race has this upgrade, It should stay the same.
How is sheild upgrades just a bonus when all it covers is the other half of your units HP?
When you get ground carapace as zerg it adds +1 to all the health!
Shields simply cover what armor does not........
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Really loving these changes. Protoss needed this - BADLY!
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On October 27 2011 02:27 blamekilly wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 02:10 nanaoei wrote:On October 27 2011 00:28 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On October 27 2011 00:24 Big.E33 wrote:
is it now viable to get shields +1 before armor +3?
especially in a archon/zealot composition? Keep in mind that the more defense you already have, the better a defense upgrade is. Going from +2 armor to +3 means you're going from taking 3 damage per shot from an unupgraded Marine to 2 damage, a 33% reduction. Going from +0 shields to +1 takes you from 6 damage per shot to 5, which is only a 17% reduction. Especially given that a lot of those shots will be reduced still further by Guardian Shield, it's probably still worth the investment to get the armor first. lets pretend health and shields are the same, to mostly simulate a stalker,a sentry, or even a collosus (for almost any other units this is wrong) you're not wrong, but considering you're picking your first upgrade, +1 armor and +1 shields is practically the same upgrade (with the above). there is however a tendancy to want to not take hull damage or actual HP. the handful-of-stalker-vs-handful-of-marine situation happens a bit earlier than you would get either upgrade, but i can't help but think shields-first would be ideal if you can save most of your hurt units from death in your very first engagements.
shields recharge to their full amount, armor only applies to the remaining health of the unit whether it's 10 hp or 80. i'm sure you get what i mean there.... *edit* i guess this is why people value attack upgrades more than armor sometimes : D when they get a ball of units. the units themsevles---the zealot or even a stalker are special units for protoss though which go against this because of the units that are used against them. (marauders which do 10, with marines, or zerglings against stalkers) Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?
Your ignorance of how toss upgrades work just validates that 99% of people bitching in this thread about the proposed changes is QQ for the sake of QQ.......
On October 27 2011 02:44 Dreadwolf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:50 synergy_sin wrote:
Hmm, when are they nerfing Psi Storm radius too? Guess it's okay for Protoss to do massive AoE damage to a Terran army, but not okay for EMP to disable Protoss Shields and spellcasters.
Hmm, when are they nerfing Psi Storm radius too? Guess it's okay for Protoss to do massive AoE damage to a Terran army, but not okay for EMP to disable Protoss Shields and spellcasters.
and yet another post showing how TL post quality is slowly but surely degrading to the bnet forums....
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Blizzard is doing a phenomenal job. Map pool changes were amazing. These changes are very smart.
And to Jimbo:
Please more PewPew and less qq good sir. I'm sorry that the ghost got nerfed. But it needed a nerf. The radius was too big TvP where the main problem was.
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On October 26 2011 07:50 synergy_sin wrote:
Hmm, when are they nerfing Psi Storm radius too? Guess it's okay for Protoss to do massive AoE damage to a Terran army, but not okay for EMP to disable Protoss Shields and spellcasters.
Massive... you want massive, look at EMP radius as it is now. Almost 2/3rds of the screen. It just means terran will have to use a couple more ghosts and it will be possible to dodge EMP.
I love how all the terran cry for FG/PsiStorm nerf along with their EMP nerf. Take the nerf like men and get better at the game instead.
It would be kool if they just changed the whole mechanic to require a nuke, and instead of nuking units, you can send a nuke to explode in the outer atmosphere around a targeted area creating an EMP. It would be scientifically consistent. Of course, there would be a slight delay between target, nuclear launch, and emp. And the radius could stay the same or be larger to compensate.
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On October 27 2011 02:48 Rorschach wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 02:27 blamekilly wrote:On October 27 2011 02:10 nanaoei wrote:On October 27 2011 00:28 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On October 27 2011 00:24 Big.E33 wrote:
is it now viable to get shields +1 before armor +3?
especially in a archon/zealot composition? Keep in mind that the more defense you already have, the better a defense upgrade is. Going from +2 armor to +3 means you're going from taking 3 damage per shot from an unupgraded Marine to 2 damage, a 33% reduction. Going from +0 shields to +1 takes you from 6 damage per shot to 5, which is only a 17% reduction. Especially given that a lot of those shots will be reduced still further by Guardian Shield, it's probably still worth the investment to get the armor first. lets pretend health and shields are the same, to mostly simulate a stalker,a sentry, or even a collosus (for almost any other units this is wrong) you're not wrong, but considering you're picking your first upgrade, +1 armor and +1 shields is practically the same upgrade (with the above). there is however a tendancy to want to not take hull damage or actual HP. the handful-of-stalker-vs-handful-of-marine situation happens a bit earlier than you would get either upgrade, but i can't help but think shields-first would be ideal if you can save most of your hurt units from death in your very first engagements.
shields recharge to their full amount, armor only applies to the remaining health of the unit whether it's 10 hp or 80. i'm sure you get what i mean there.... *edit* i guess this is why people value attack upgrades more than armor sometimes : D when they get a ball of units. the units themsevles---the zealot or even a stalker are special units for protoss though which go against this because of the units that are used against them. (marauders which do 10, with marines, or zerglings against stalkers) Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source? Your ignorance of how toss upgrades work just validates that 99% people bitching in this thread about this proposed changes is QQ for the sake of QQ.......
How can people not know that armor upgrade doesn't effect shield??? Wow...
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On October 27 2011 02:50 GleaM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 02:48 Rorschach wrote:On October 27 2011 02:27 blamekilly wrote:On October 27 2011 02:10 nanaoei wrote:On October 27 2011 00:28 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On October 27 2011 00:24 Big.E33 wrote:
is it now viable to get shields +1 before armor +3?
especially in a archon/zealot composition? Keep in mind that the more defense you already have, the better a defense upgrade is. Going from +2 armor to +3 means you're going from taking 3 damage per shot from an unupgraded Marine to 2 damage, a 33% reduction. Going from +0 shields to +1 takes you from 6 damage per shot to 5, which is only a 17% reduction. Especially given that a lot of those shots will be reduced still further by Guardian Shield, it's probably still worth the investment to get the armor first. lets pretend health and shields are the same, to mostly simulate a stalker,a sentry, or even a collosus (for almost any other units this is wrong) you're not wrong, but considering you're picking your first upgrade, +1 armor and +1 shields is practically the same upgrade (with the above). there is however a tendancy to want to not take hull damage or actual HP. the handful-of-stalker-vs-handful-of-marine situation happens a bit earlier than you would get either upgrade, but i can't help but think shields-first would be ideal if you can save most of your hurt units from death in your very first engagements.
shields recharge to their full amount, armor only applies to the remaining health of the unit whether it's 10 hp or 80. i'm sure you get what i mean there.... *edit* i guess this is why people value attack upgrades more than armor sometimes : D when they get a ball of units. the units themsevles---the zealot or even a stalker are special units for protoss though which go against this because of the units that are used against them. (marauders which do 10, with marines, or zerglings against stalkers) Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source? Your ignorance of how toss upgrades work just validates that 99% people bitching in this thread about this proposed changes is QQ for the sake of QQ....... How can people not know that armor upgrade doesn't effect shield??? Wow...
The same ignorant people that think toss just to a-move to victory most of their games......
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EMP is even more useless against really fat infestors, that is really worse for TvZ mid/late game.
couldnt disagree more with you, 1 ghost cost roughly equivalent of 1 infestor. You're almost guaranteed to wreck 3 or 4 infestors per emp. this is painfully cost effective from the zergs point of view.
Ghosts are getting more and more popular in this mu, just look at nestea v mvp in blizzcon if you want to see the horrific shit ghosts do to zerg
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T-T-T-Triple Forge!!!
Really nice to see this changes from Blizzard. And now nerf Snipe for the sake of all the poor Ultras and Broodlords.
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lol another t nerf :S was it really needed?
Now in tvp double forge gonna rape ass... (and maybe triple forge ? XD)
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On October 27 2011 02:57 Grani wrote:
T-T-T-Triple Forge!!!
Really nice to see this changes from Blizzard. And now nerf Snipe for the sake of all the poor Ultras and Broodlords.
I have to side with terran slightly in regards to snipe.
With the current metagame terran don't have a whole lot of options to deal with hive tech.
Mauraders vs ultras can work and vikings vs broods. Having the ghost/snipe is a good thing, HOWEVER we've not seen enough late game TvZ to really know if there is a problem with it.
Something for blizzard to keep an eye on but I enjoy the game more from a spectators POV with snipe in the game........
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Yessss triple forge rushes now viable!!
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hmmmm...now is mb possible to go +1 or 2 weapon upgade and then go to shield with special tactics...because when you go bink stalkers and you micro correctly than you seve all hp (that means you neednot armor soo early) and bost your shields, than your stalkers will be mutch stronger and theyr shield will be full on next haras...shield is regenerating...whey you lost real hp 1time you will never get it back...
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On October 27 2011 02:49 [uci] Fizik wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:50 synergy_sin wrote:
Hmm, when are they nerfing Psi Storm radius too? Guess it's okay for Protoss to do massive AoE damage to a Terran army, but not okay for EMP to disable Protoss Shields and spellcasters.
Massive... you want massive, look at EMP radius as it is now. Almost 2/3rds of the screen. It just means terran will have to use a couple more ghosts and it will be possible to dodge EMP. I love how all the terran cry for FG/PsiStorm nerf along with their EMP nerf. Take the nerf like men and get better at the game instead. It would be kool if they just changed the whole mechanic to require a nuke, and instead of nuking units, you can send a nuke to explode in the outer atmosphere around a targeted area creating an EMP. It would be scientifically consistent. Of course, there would be a slight delay between target, nuclear launch, and emp. And the radius could stay the same or be larger to compensate.
Just wanted to add ( the guy a few posts above already covered it a bit ) storm has the same radius as emp.
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On October 26 2011 15:10 ACiDCaT wrote:
so the upgraded protoss pushes will be more devastating
Not necessarily. Look at a 2/2 protoss timing and calculate how much is saved. Negligible, right?
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On October 27 2011 03:11 Puph wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 15:10 ACiDCaT wrote:
so the upgraded protoss pushes will be more devastating Not necessarily. Look at a 2/2 protoss timing and calculate how much is saved. Negligible, right?
That extra stalker will be mindblowing. Totally game breaking.
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On October 27 2011 02:54 UnholyGregor wrote:Show nested quote +EMP is even more useless against really fat infestors, that is really worse for TvZ mid/late game.
couldnt disagree more with you, 1 ghost cost roughly equivalent of 1 infestor. You're almost guaranteed to wreck 3 or 4 infestors per emp. this is painfully cost effective from the zergs point of view.
While I agree with you that EMP is still cost-effective against infestors, I'm pretty sure Snipe is optimal anyway...
Why temporarily neutralize them when you can straight-up kill them?
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On October 27 2011 02:27 blamekilly wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 02:10 nanaoei wrote:On October 27 2011 00:28 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On October 27 2011 00:24 Big.E33 wrote:
is it now viable to get shields +1 before armor +3?
especially in a archon/zealot composition? Keep in mind that the more defense you already have, the better a defense upgrade is. Going from +2 armor to +3 means you're going from taking 3 damage per shot from an unupgraded Marine to 2 damage, a 33% reduction. Going from +0 shields to +1 takes you from 6 damage per shot to 5, which is only a 17% reduction. Especially given that a lot of those shots will be reduced still further by Guardian Shield, it's probably still worth the investment to get the armor first. lets pretend health and shields are the same, to mostly simulate a stalker,a sentry, or even a collosus (for almost any other units this is wrong) you're not wrong, but considering you're picking your first upgrade, +1 armor and +1 shields is practically the same upgrade (with the above). there is however a tendancy to want to not take hull damage or actual HP. the handful-of-stalker-vs-handful-of-marine situation happens a bit earlier than you would get either upgrade, but i can't help but think shields-first would be ideal if you can save most of your hurt units from death in your very first engagements.
shields recharge to their full amount, armor only applies to the remaining health of the unit whether it's 10 hp or 80. i'm sure you get what i mean there.... *edit* i guess this is why people value attack upgrades more than armor sometimes : D when they get a ball of units. the units themsevles---the zealot or even a stalker are special units for protoss though which go against this because of the units that are used against them. (marauders which do 10, with marines, or zerglings against stalkers) Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?
It absolutely only affects Protoss units HPs, not their shields.
Source: Playing Protoss, rofl.
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How come no one is saying what pvt will be like it hots? I mean yea its kind of stupid to talk about a game that's not even out yet but with the new replicator unit protoss has the ability to get a 33 death ball with ht ghosts and collosi so the emp nerf is actually a protoss nerf as well infact any nerf or buff to any unit other that protoss is still a buf/nerf to toss lol so if I was a toss I wouid not like this nerf cus in hots it wont matter was the radius is because toss will have ghosts too. It will come down to the terran emping the toss ghosts lol so the toss could use the ghosts to emp fotter( wrong spelling) the terrans ghosts wile he uses ht to feedback. Like I can't think of a situation that the terran will come out ahead if both players are microing well(of course there are situations that you will be caught off guard). That being said in order for toss to get that death ball he has to invest in a lot of tech that might make a timing for terrans to push and shut down an expo or just kill them. But yea what do you guys think?
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On October 27 2011 03:06 gohbot wrote:
Yessss triple forge rushes now viable!!
Only one +1 upgrade was changed, and that buff was only a decrease of 50/50.
I don't really see how it's now viable all of a sudden (if it wasn't before), but okay 
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EPT
