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On October 26 2011 16:49 Serashin wrote:
I can say that with my macro ways i can nowhere make use of those cheaper upgrades in situations where i play solid and it still is impossible to gain intel to prevent loses.
The core problems and costs how the races work needs some tweaks for all races and upgrades to make the chances more even.
This buff equals nearly the blueflame icon change to be honest.
If Blizzard wants to know whats wrong i cant say it off the bat but i dont invest also time into math changes for allot of units if it simply gets ignored or closed like all other sugestions.
On the other hand the EMP change was needed the cost effectiveness of a ghost vs Protoss is ridicilous and i can already say that this will fix 2 % of the flaw in PvT.
Whats the other 98% flaw?
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On October 26 2011 17:06 j3i wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 16:35 TheDraken wrote:On October 26 2011 15:31 Runaground wrote:
Now area has been reduced from 12 to 7, it's HUGE nerf. I have no idea how much ghosts you should have to successfully and fast EMP the toss army.
really now? it's incredible to me how so many terrans can truly believe that they deserve to have a completely broken ability as if it was some right. the notion that being able to EMP the entire toss army is some kind of requirement is absolute garbage. that's the equivalent of a protoss complaining that 1 or 2 templars should be able to effectively cast storm over an entire terran army and have it deal instant damage. EMP should be used as an energy draining ability and a focused shield-removal on specific units... not some "HERP DERP I DRAIN 3000 HP WITH MY INSTASPELL". i think 1.5 radius is perfectly fine for a spell that requires no research and can be cast from such a safe distance with a cloakable unit. Edit: radius correction Agreed.. as much as I approve of clumped units get punished by EMP, it was kind of stupid how even a properly spread army got blanketed so easily. And I do mean "properly." Spreading out too much as toss is just as bad (if not worse) as clumping up.
People seriously dont' realise that spreading your units wins battles. I still see pros getting their deathball and attack moving only to be decimated by aoe abilitys such as storm and emp..
In PvT both players generally don't clump due to the fact that colossi templar, tnaks, etc, all destroy deathballs.
EMP was stupid though - as ghosts and templars counter eachother except the fact is that the ghost wins downright with a stupid aoe spamming ability whilst you actually have to aim for the ghost in a massive clump of units if you want to feedback them.
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On October 26 2011 17:11 ThaSlayer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 16:49 Serashin wrote:
I can say that with my macro ways i can nowhere make use of those cheaper upgrades in situations where i play solid and it still is impossible to gain intel to prevent loses.
The core problems and costs how the races work needs some tweaks for all races and upgrades to make the chances more even.
This buff equals nearly the blueflame icon change to be honest.
If Blizzard wants to know whats wrong i cant say it off the bat but i dont invest also time into math changes for allot of units if it simply gets ignored or closed like all other sugestions.
On the other hand the EMP change was needed the cost effectiveness of a ghost vs Protoss is ridicilous and i can already say that this will fix 2 % of the flaw in PvT.
Whats the other 98% flaw?
Concussive shell in my opinion. You have a 50/50 upgrade that prevents retreating and there's probably never a game where terran doesn't recoup the cost of that 50/50. PvT is not unwinnable, but there's a lot of uncertainty regarding how battles will go down because of how much damage EMP does and protoss having to retreat, where the concussive shell upgrade allows terran to kill units it wouldn't have without it.
That's pretty much why chargelot archon with guardian shield has become a popular strategy, you charge in with your zealots, terran EMPs and the AI will target the zealots over the archon because it's behind the zealots which allows it to do its damage. I don't know what the answer is for perfect balance, but that late game MMMG Viking composition vs tier 1 gateway with colossus becomes very fragile just because of EMP.
There's no reason to not build ghosts against protoss. It takes care of high templar storm (something you have to research and spend lots of gas on), archons because they are primarily a shield based unit, immortals become dead weight when you have to retreat because the EMP damaged too many of your units. The spell makes trying to take position on the map difficult.
On the other side though, protoss tend to have a timing against the 1 rax expansion with FFE into 5-7 gate with maybe an immortal that can be pretty effective if terran is relying on bunkers, so there's that.
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More good changes.
But it's difficult to care now that HotS has been previewed.
It's like waiting for WoL all over again!
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On October 26 2011 17:11 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 17:07 SilverforceX wrote:
About time they nerfed EMP..
Next patch, give Snipe a short cooldown. Stupid that ghosts counter everything zerg with EMP vs infestors and snipe vs high value targets. Play terran against broodlord infestor, then come back and ask for a snipe nerf. Infestor broodlord is impossible to beat if you are not ahead, so a nerf to this composition would be nice...
Impossible to beat if you are not ahead? Are you joking? It's the exact opposite. Ghost Tank is impossible to beat if you are not super far ahead as zerg.
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On October 26 2011 17:29 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 17:11 Snowbear wrote:On October 26 2011 17:07 SilverforceX wrote:
About time they nerfed EMP..
Next patch, give Snipe a short cooldown. Stupid that ghosts counter everything zerg with EMP vs infestors and snipe vs high value targets. Play terran against broodlord infestor, then come back and ask for a snipe nerf. Infestor broodlord is impossible to beat if you are not ahead, so a nerf to this composition would be nice... Impossible to beat if you are not ahead? Are you joking? It's the exact opposite. Ghost Tank is impossible to beat if you are not super far ahead as zerg.
try fully upgraded roaches and mass banelings.
your welcome
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This confirms that Blizzard balances the game by reading bnet forums lol
Oh well I'll just play nothing but P now its easy and you can blame balance for any loss
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On October 26 2011 17:16 mikell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 17:06 j3i wrote:On October 26 2011 16:35 TheDraken wrote:On October 26 2011 15:31 Runaground wrote:
Now area has been reduced from 12 to 7, it's HUGE nerf. I have no idea how much ghosts you should have to successfully and fast EMP the toss army.
really now? it's incredible to me how so many terrans can truly believe that they deserve to have a completely broken ability as if it was some right. the notion that being able to EMP the entire toss army is some kind of requirement is absolute garbage. that's the equivalent of a protoss complaining that 1 or 2 templars should be able to effectively cast storm over an entire terran army and have it deal instant damage. EMP should be used as an energy draining ability and a focused shield-removal on specific units... not some "HERP DERP I DRAIN 3000 HP WITH MY INSTASPELL". i think 1.5 radius is perfectly fine for a spell that requires no research and can be cast from such a safe distance with a cloakable unit. Edit: radius correction Agreed.. as much as I approve of clumped units get punished by EMP, it was kind of stupid how even a properly spread army got blanketed so easily. And I do mean "properly." Spreading out too much as toss is just as bad (if not worse) as clumping up. People seriously dont' realise that spreading your units wins battles. I still see pros getting their deathball and attack moving only to be decimated by aoe abilitys such as storm and emp.. In PvT both players generally don't clump due to the fact that colossi templar, tnaks, etc, all destroy deathballs. EMP was stupid though - as ghosts and templars counter eachother except the fact is that the ghost wins downright with a stupid aoe spamming ability whilst you actually have to aim for the ghost in a massive clump of units if you want to feedback them.
It really depends on the stage of the game. Late game, you're going to have to clump up at some point, which is when terran can afford more than 1-3 ghosts. Personally I don't mind that it does energy damage. That's a cool ability to have in the game, but wiping out shields with blanket EMPs gives a significant advantage to terran on top of already clearing high templar or sentry energy. If you watched MC vs theSTC at Orlando, MC using his forcefields a microsecond before the EMP allowed him to win that game and he was fairly well spread out, so I don't really buy that spreading out your units is effective because maps like Xelnaga Caverns and Metalopolis don't really allow that to be effective. We'll see how big the new radius is on the EMP though.
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I dont get why the regular attack upgrades are being made cheaper, sure shields can be made cheaper (might see it get upgraded before 40min mark now...) but these changes are clearly aimed at PvT, and i don't see why the army which needs no "second" (air) level of upgrades get it even easier now.
emp radius makes sense vs protoss, will make TvZ endgame harder.
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WOW this is huge. Whoever says EMPradius nerf doesn't matter needs to learn math. EMP area of effect reduced by 44%!!! FFS....
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I was expecting a snipe change like you can't snipe massive units
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Happy with the EMP radius change, cant wait to see how it plays out.
I dont understand all the QQ about the cost of upgrades though.
Shield put apart ( as it is done once in a while ) , the overall cost reduction is 150/150, wow ! a sentry and almost a stalker ! that changes everything -_-'
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The EMP buff is good, now spreading your High Templars means even if they have 2-3 ghosts you still get to throw down a Psionic Storm!
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WHY?????????
The race that can get +3 faster than any other race fgets cheaper upgrades????????????
LOL
User was warned for this post
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This might help pvt abit! But I dont think this will help zvt at all.. It's not the EMP that is the problem in that matchup, its the snipes, to comment on op's thoughts. Hopefully:
pvt gets better now,
zvt we might see zerg getting the oppertunity to use their infestors more,
and pvz is unaffected.
t.t ghost so strong!
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emp nerf won't hurt tvz at all, snipe is still going to be just as effective
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On October 26 2011 17:45 HappyZergling wrote:
WHY?????????
The race that can get +3 faster than any other race fgets cheaper upgrades????????????
LOL
Why does it matter? The game isn't called "get most upgrades and win."
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The upgrade cost wont make any difference at all to be honest. EMP nerf is huge though, really needed that one for quite some time.
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EPT
