EPTEmp.. not 100% on.
1.4.2 Patch notes PTR - Page 59
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TeamBanished
United States301 Posts
Emp.. not 100% on. | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
Seriously I lost track. This whole who's a good T/who's a good P thing has gotten so far away from the original point that it's no longer relevant to the thread. | ||
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iLike413
Canada100 Posts
On October 26 2011 11:30 The Final Boss wrote: MC does Timing attacks in almost every game he plays. He is far from a Macro-Protoss. And Puzzle's PvT has never really impressed me. Maybe it's because he beat MMA with Dark Templar back in Code A and still almost managed to lose those games due to poor control and macro, but I just don't think he really understands the match-ups that well. But regardless, congrats on naming a single Korean Macro Protoss. Anyone who says "show me a macro protoss herp derp" doesn't really understand the game.... In late game situations terran has the ability to have a much more massive army than toss because they are running off of almost purely mules.. thats at least 30+ extra supply in army comp. Toss have always relied on timing pushes because they are the weakest macro race... | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On October 26 2011 11:32 Hantak wrote: I dont know man... i play terran and my hardest matchup is TvP im ranked 6 on my plat division on the NA server, and at my level is a very hard matchup because of the amount of micro involved on kiting and the rather low effort it takes to use a protoss death ball (im very sure i could use protoss at gold level, but i wouldnt be sure unless i switched), i mean, you got to worry to have enough warp gates, keep your zealots on the front, use guardian shield and try to cut off about 1/3 of the Terran bio ball, focus fire vikings, and maybe land one or 2 good placed storms, (well i dont consider this to be much compared to kitting and emp'ing while dealing with terran macro). Now that i think about it the hardest thing is to be able to regroup properly given toss can restore most of its army on site via warp in, usually if i dont crush the toss he can pretty much move in and kill me. I dont really like the upgrade changes on the ptr, yet i have to test them, but i think this only really benefits timing attacks and makes even easier to get an upgrade lead as protoss because of chronoboost, now kiting will be even more important for terran and so will be to get attacks upgrades for the infantry. The emp nerf... well it was quite powerfull, but i think this will make dealing with infestors even harder, we will have to rely even more heavily on tanks to avoid getting our marines fungaled, and the doomsday infestor-broodlord or infestor-ultralisk and the tech switches between them will be even harder to deal with as infestors take care of most of our counters quite easily, specially vikings. guess we will need to rely on mass ghosts, until they nerf snipe lol I can just as easily say it requires little effort to press T and stutter step. To deal with Infestors, Snipe them. | ||
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
On October 26 2011 11:34 The Final Boss wrote: That's a ridiculous analysis. HasuObs does great PvT late game and he goes for High Templar armies consistently (and as far as Macro-Ps go, Hasu is what I think of). And that's why he is in the GSL? winning MLGs? come on you know where the statistics matter. And at the highest level it's obvious which race has been struggling. And it's obvious which race has never had to at all. Maybe they should nerf terrans super hard so they can see how it feels to have a sub 50% winrate for once. It would be easy enough to revert later, just give em a taste. | ||
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The Final Boss
United States1839 Posts
On October 26 2011 11:36 iLike413 wrote: Anyone who says "show me a macro protoss herp derp" doesn't really understand the game.... In late game situations terran has the ability to have a much more massive army than toss because they are running off of almost purely mules.. thats at least 30+ extra supply in army comp. Toss have always relied on timing pushes because they are the weakest macro race... You know, about a year ago people were saying that Terran couldn't compete in the late game and that's why you had BitByBit-type players going all-in game after game after game. EDIT: Also, really late game can't Protoss just build a strong Gateway army in approimately 5 seconds, and then with Chronoboost you can then supercharge all of your Gateways and create an even bigger army in no time at all? | ||
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locant
Australia45 Posts
On October 26 2011 11:24 lee365 wrote: Well, after this patch it seems I'm going to all in every Protoss I play. If I can barely win a normal game now, after this patch I'm doomed. This. I played a tvp yesterday were I was up a base the whole game, up in upgrades, had perfect emp and still got rolled. Im either going to 6 rax, go back to the 1/1/1 or switch to protoss as this is horrible. I feel sorry for zergs now as they were already having a hard time | ||
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StatX
Canada343 Posts
I guess they wanted to encourage protoss to get faster upgrades to compensate for lesser unit count and to encourage the almost never used shield upgrades. | ||
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Zer atai
United States691 Posts
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
On October 26 2011 11:37 The Final Boss wrote: You know, about a year ago people were saying that Terran couldn't compete in the late game and that's why you had BitByBit-type players going all-in game after game after game. That's before terrans realized that they had the best spellcaster in the game. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On October 26 2011 11:38 locant wrote: This. I played a tvp yesterday were I was up a base the whole game, up in upgrades, had perfect emp and still got rolled. Im either going to 6 rax, go back to the 1/1/1 or switch to protoss as this is horrible. I feel sorry for zergs now as they were already having a hard time "I did bad so therefore this change sucks" Post a replay or bs. Zergs were having a hard time? NO. Before NP change, Zergs were dominating Protoss to the point that it was a complete joke. | ||
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The Final Boss
United States1839 Posts
On October 26 2011 11:39 Fig wrote: That's before terrans realized that they had the best spellcaster in the game. Maybe Protoss haven't realized that they, in fact, have the best spellcaster in the game.... I think it's kind of amusing how parallel your argument looks to that of Terran players back in the early days of StarCraft 2. Maybe we'll see more players doing the Warp Prism-High Templar drop play to shield their Templar from EMPs and suddenly the High Templar will be recognized as the best spellcaster. | ||
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below66
United States1761 Posts
On October 26 2011 11:40 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: I wish foreign Terran players actually knew how to play decently so that way Blizzard can be more serious about balancing PvT. DK doesn't even watch GSL.... so if he's not going to judge balance where people know how to play the game well, then the non-Korean players better start studying how the Koreans play in order to show Kim the issues that exist. I doubt that he has no one filling him in on how the korean scene is developing, if not watching himself sometimes. It would be crazy not to watch the game you're trying to balance being played the way it's supposed to be played; at the highest possible level. | ||
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Vanidar
United States66 Posts
Terran has a definitive advantage to flexibility with the wide range of tech and upgrade paths available to them. And with the Seige Tank, they have certain advantages to defensive play and the ability to deny areas of the map, once established. Both of the above races have great harassment options (protoss is just getting started along that path) Protoss has chronoboost. And even then, it feels like a lot of the upgrades(Blink and warp gate research times in particular) and unit build times(Carriers, Colossi, anyone?) are balanced to ASSUME chronoboost. With this buff to upgrade costs, it should significantly help with gas management, and help Protoss players feel like "Research/Technology" is their advantage. I'm a little confused that Air Weapons/Armor levels 2 and 3 aren't being touched. Did Blizz forget those pesky cybercore upgrades even exist? I can't remember the last time I ever saw someone get more than +1 air weapons for any reason. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On October 26 2011 11:38 locant wrote: This. I played a tvp yesterday were I was up a base the whole game, up in upgrades, had perfect emp and still got rolled. Im either going to 6 rax, go back to the 1/1/1 or switch to protoss as this is horrible. I feel sorry for zergs now as they were already having a hard time Besides the fact that your post is hilarious bs, you want to switch from the strongest race to the weakest race? Or are you in Bronze-Silver where Protoss is actually the best? I doubt that he has no one filling him in on how the korean scene is developing, if not watching himself sometimes. It would be crazy not to watch the game you're trying to balance being played the way it's supposed to be played; at the highest possible level. If that were the case, Kim would be watching GSL over every other tournament. In fact, he would be watching every single set and series. Not casually saying he rarely watches a match from it. | ||
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Deezl
United States355 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 26 2011 11:40 Cloud9157 wrote: "I did bad so therefore this change sucks" Post a replay or bs. Zergs were having a hard time? NO. Before NP change, Zergs were dominating Protoss to the point that it was a complete joke. His EMPs were PREFECT. Didn't you see, they were perfect. He played a game that rivaled MVP and still lost. Seriously, the cost reduction is very slight. Still that extra 50 gas off +2/+2 will put me one step close to charge or blink. Not huge, but nice. | ||
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DoLookMoreLike
155 Posts
On October 26 2011 11:23 NicolBolas wrote: Honestly, the shield change has been a long time coming. I know it affects everything the Protoss has, but shields are only ever at most 50% of a unit's total health and usually less. And while they do regenerate, they only do that outside of combat. Bumping them down to reasonable levels is something the Protoss has needed since SC1. I think the radius change on EMP is reasonable, considering the cost of Ghosts and the power of the spell vs. Protoss. At the same time, it might have been just as reasonable to make it high-tech research. On the plus side, Terrans will have to be stronger on their micro to properly blanket a late-game Protoss army. I'm a bit less sure about the changes to ground attack and ground armor. Those belong more on flying attack/armor than ground. Protoss always gets these, so it's not like they're too cheap or something. Encouraging the use of flying units by lowering their research cost wouldn't be a bad idea. You summed up my feelings about this patch very well there, Mr Bolas. Overall this looks like a promising patch. | ||
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WinteRR
Australia201 Posts
On October 26 2011 11:36 Cloud9157 wrote: I can just as easily say it requires little effort to press T and stutter step. To deal with Infestors, Snipe them. That's a massive joke right? I think it's pretty safe to assume you haven't experienced TvP at a decent level judging by that terrible/inaccurate assumption akin to a bronze level analysis. | ||
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