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1.4.2 Patch notes PTR - Page 59

Forum Index > SC2 General
2455 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 57 58 59 60 61 123 Next
TeamBanished
Profile Joined September 2011
United States301 Posts
October 26 2011 02:34 GMT
#1161
Def like the cheaper upgrades.

Emp.. not 100% on.
For Aiur
The KY
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom6252 Posts
October 26 2011 02:36 GMT
#1162
What the fuck are we arguing about now?

Seriously I lost track. This whole who's a good T/who's a good P thing has gotten so far away from the original point that it's no longer relevant to the thread.
iLike413
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada100 Posts
October 26 2011 02:36 GMT
#1163
On October 26 2011 11:30 The Final Boss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2011 11:25 ImmortalTofu wrote:
On October 26 2011 11:22 The Final Boss wrote:
Now, for all the people talking about "Name a good Korean Protoss" or "Name a good Foreign Terran," I want everybody to try and name something for me. A Macro-Oriented Korean Protoss.

As far as Terrans go, you have players like TOP, TheStC, or Jjakji who consistently go for macro games. I can't think of a Korean Protoss player who looks for macro games often times in PvT, as they usually wind up doing some sort of timing attack, whether it is 1, 2, and very rarely 3 bases. The problem isn't lack of skill, but lack of depth in the play. Korean Protoss players are constantly aggressive--or, at the very least they are overly predictable.


Puzzle, and he got rolled pretty much every single time in PvT everytime due to EMP lategame. MC as well, after his GSL March win, and had alot of success against against Terran, with Puma and Bomber.

MC does Timing attacks in almost every game he plays. He is far from a Macro-Protoss. And Puzzle's PvT has never really impressed me. Maybe it's because he beat MMA with Dark Templar back in Code A and still almost managed to lose those games due to poor control and macro, but I just don't think he really understands the match-ups that well.

But regardless, congrats on naming a single Korean Macro Protoss.


Anyone who says "show me a macro protoss herp derp" doesn't really understand the game.... In late game situations terran has the ability to have a much more massive army than toss because they are running off of almost purely mules.. thats at least 30+ extra supply in army comp. Toss have always relied on timing pushes because they are the weakest macro race...
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
October 26 2011 02:36 GMT
#1164
On October 26 2011 11:32 Hantak wrote:
I dont know man... i play terran and my hardest matchup is TvP im ranked 6 on my plat division on the NA server, and at my level is a very hard matchup because of the amount of micro involved on kiting and the rather low effort it takes to use a protoss death ball (im very sure i could use protoss at gold level, but i wouldnt be sure unless i switched), i mean, you got to worry to have enough warp gates, keep your zealots on the front, use guardian shield and try to cut off about 1/3 of the Terran bio ball, focus fire vikings, and maybe land one or 2 good placed storms, (well i dont consider this to be much compared to kitting and emp'ing while dealing with terran macro). Now that i think about it the hardest thing is to be able to regroup properly given toss can restore most of its army on site via warp in, usually if i dont crush the toss he can pretty much move in and kill me.

I dont really like the upgrade changes on the ptr, yet i have to test them, but i think this only really benefits timing attacks and makes even easier to get an upgrade lead as protoss because of chronoboost, now kiting will be even more important for terran and so will be to get attacks upgrades for the infantry.

The emp nerf... well it was quite powerfull, but i think this will make dealing with infestors even harder, we will have to rely even more heavily on tanks to avoid getting our marines fungaled, and the doomsday infestor-broodlord or infestor-ultralisk and the tech switches between them will be even harder to deal with as infestors take care of most of our counters quite easily, specially vikings. guess we will need to rely on mass ghosts, until they nerf snipe lol


I can just as easily say it requires little effort to press T and stutter step.

To deal with Infestors, Snipe them.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
Fig
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1324 Posts
October 26 2011 02:36 GMT
#1165
On October 26 2011 11:34 The Final Boss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2011 11:32 Fig wrote:
On October 26 2011 11:30 The Final Boss wrote:
On October 26 2011 11:25 ImmortalTofu wrote:
On October 26 2011 11:22 The Final Boss wrote:
Now, for all the people talking about "Name a good Korean Protoss" or "Name a good Foreign Terran," I want everybody to try and name something for me. A Macro-Oriented Korean Protoss.

As far as Terrans go, you have players like TOP, TheStC, or Jjakji who consistently go for macro games. I can't think of a Korean Protoss player who looks for macro games often times in PvT, as they usually wind up doing some sort of timing attack, whether it is 1, 2, and very rarely 3 bases. The problem isn't lack of skill, but lack of depth in the play. Korean Protoss players are constantly aggressive--or, at the very least they are overly predictable.


Puzzle, and he got rolled pretty much every single time in PvT everytime due to EMP lategame. MC as well, after his GSL March win, and had alot of success against against Terran, with Puma and Bomber.

MC does Timing attacks in almost every game he plays. He is far from a Macro-Protoss. And Puzzle's PvT has never really impressed me. Maybe it's because he beat MMA with Dark Templar back in Code A and still almost managed to lose those games due to poor control and macro, but I just don't think he really understands the match-ups that well.

But regardless, congrats on naming a single Korean Macro Protoss.

Ever stopped to think about why a toss would be trying to end a PvT quickly? Maybe because the radius of EMP is too big...

That's a ridiculous analysis. HasuObs does great PvT late game and he goes for High Templar armies consistently (and as far as Macro-Ps go, Hasu is what I think of).

And that's why he is in the GSL? winning MLGs? come on you know where the statistics matter. And at the highest level it's obvious which race has been struggling. And it's obvious which race has never had to at all. Maybe they should nerf terrans super hard so they can see how it feels to have a sub 50% winrate for once. It would be easy enough to revert later, just give em a taste.
Can't elope with my cantaloupe
The Final Boss
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1839 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-26 02:40:06
October 26 2011 02:37 GMT
#1166
On October 26 2011 11:36 iLike413 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2011 11:30 The Final Boss wrote:
On October 26 2011 11:25 ImmortalTofu wrote:
On October 26 2011 11:22 The Final Boss wrote:
Now, for all the people talking about "Name a good Korean Protoss" or "Name a good Foreign Terran," I want everybody to try and name something for me. A Macro-Oriented Korean Protoss.

As far as Terrans go, you have players like TOP, TheStC, or Jjakji who consistently go for macro games. I can't think of a Korean Protoss player who looks for macro games often times in PvT, as they usually wind up doing some sort of timing attack, whether it is 1, 2, and very rarely 3 bases. The problem isn't lack of skill, but lack of depth in the play. Korean Protoss players are constantly aggressive--or, at the very least they are overly predictable.


Puzzle, and he got rolled pretty much every single time in PvT everytime due to EMP lategame. MC as well, after his GSL March win, and had alot of success against against Terran, with Puma and Bomber.

MC does Timing attacks in almost every game he plays. He is far from a Macro-Protoss. And Puzzle's PvT has never really impressed me. Maybe it's because he beat MMA with Dark Templar back in Code A and still almost managed to lose those games due to poor control and macro, but I just don't think he really understands the match-ups that well.

But regardless, congrats on naming a single Korean Macro Protoss.


Anyone who says "show me a macro protoss herp derp" doesn't really understand the game.... In late game situations terran has the ability to have a much more massive army than toss because they are running off of almost purely mules.. thats at least 30+ extra supply in army comp. Toss have always relied on timing pushes because they are the weakest macro race...

You know, about a year ago people were saying that Terran couldn't compete in the late game and that's why you had BitByBit-type players going all-in game after game after game.

EDIT: Also, really late game can't Protoss just build a strong Gateway army in approimately 5 seconds, and then with Chronoboost you can then supercharge all of your Gateways and create an even bigger army in no time at all?
locant
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia45 Posts
October 26 2011 02:38 GMT
#1167
On October 26 2011 11:24 lee365 wrote:
Well, after this patch it seems I'm going to all in every Protoss I play. If I can barely win a normal game now, after this patch I'm doomed.

This.
I played a tvp yesterday were I was up a base the whole game, up in upgrades, had perfect emp and still got rolled. Im either going to 6 rax, go back to the 1/1/1 or switch to protoss as this is horrible. I feel sorry for zergs now as they were already having a hard time
StatX
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada343 Posts
October 26 2011 02:38 GMT
#1168
I wish they wouldve reduced the cost of charge or reduced its research time.

I guess they wanted to encourage protoss to get faster upgrades to compensate for lesser unit count and to encourage the almost never used shield upgrades.
Can we snipe it? Yes we can!
Zer atai
Profile Joined September 2011
United States691 Posts
October 26 2011 02:39 GMT
#1169
yes! yes! A thousand times yes!!!!
Want to sport eSports? Disable adblock. P.S. En Taro Adun!!
Fig
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1324 Posts
October 26 2011 02:39 GMT
#1170
On October 26 2011 11:37 The Final Boss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2011 11:36 iLike413 wrote:
On October 26 2011 11:30 The Final Boss wrote:
On October 26 2011 11:25 ImmortalTofu wrote:
On October 26 2011 11:22 The Final Boss wrote:
Now, for all the people talking about "Name a good Korean Protoss" or "Name a good Foreign Terran," I want everybody to try and name something for me. A Macro-Oriented Korean Protoss.

As far as Terrans go, you have players like TOP, TheStC, or Jjakji who consistently go for macro games. I can't think of a Korean Protoss player who looks for macro games often times in PvT, as they usually wind up doing some sort of timing attack, whether it is 1, 2, and very rarely 3 bases. The problem isn't lack of skill, but lack of depth in the play. Korean Protoss players are constantly aggressive--or, at the very least they are overly predictable.


Puzzle, and he got rolled pretty much every single time in PvT everytime due to EMP lategame. MC as well, after his GSL March win, and had alot of success against against Terran, with Puma and Bomber.

MC does Timing attacks in almost every game he plays. He is far from a Macro-Protoss. And Puzzle's PvT has never really impressed me. Maybe it's because he beat MMA with Dark Templar back in Code A and still almost managed to lose those games due to poor control and macro, but I just don't think he really understands the match-ups that well.

But regardless, congrats on naming a single Korean Macro Protoss.


Anyone who says "show me a macro protoss herp derp" doesn't really understand the game.... In late game situations terran has the ability to have a much more massive army than toss because they are running off of almost purely mules.. thats at least 30+ extra supply in army comp. Toss have always relied on timing pushes because they are the weakest macro race...

You know, about a year ago people were saying that Terran couldn't compete in the late game and that's why you had BitByBit-type players going all-in game after game after game.

That's before terrans realized that they had the best spellcaster in the game.
Can't elope with my cantaloupe
Deleted User 183001
Profile Joined May 2011
2939 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-26 02:41:06
October 26 2011 02:40 GMT
#1171
I wish foreign Terran players actually knew how to play decently so that way Blizzard can be more serious about balancing PvT. DK doesn't even watch GSL.... so if he's not going to judge balance where people know how to play the game well, then the non-Korean players better start studying how the Koreans play in order to get better and to show Kim the issues that exist.
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
October 26 2011 02:40 GMT
#1172
On October 26 2011 11:38 locant wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2011 11:24 lee365 wrote:
Well, after this patch it seems I'm going to all in every Protoss I play. If I can barely win a normal game now, after this patch I'm doomed.

This.
I played a tvp yesterday were I was up a base the whole game, up in upgrades, had perfect emp and still got rolled. Im either going to 6 rax, go back to the 1/1/1 or switch to protoss as this is horrible. I feel sorry for zergs now as they were already having a hard time


"I did bad so therefore this change sucks"

Post a replay or bs.

Zergs were having a hard time? NO. Before NP change, Zergs were dominating Protoss to the point that it was a complete joke.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
The Final Boss
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1839 Posts
October 26 2011 02:42 GMT
#1173
On October 26 2011 11:39 Fig wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2011 11:37 The Final Boss wrote:
On October 26 2011 11:36 iLike413 wrote:
On October 26 2011 11:30 The Final Boss wrote:
On October 26 2011 11:25 ImmortalTofu wrote:
On October 26 2011 11:22 The Final Boss wrote:
Now, for all the people talking about "Name a good Korean Protoss" or "Name a good Foreign Terran," I want everybody to try and name something for me. A Macro-Oriented Korean Protoss.

As far as Terrans go, you have players like TOP, TheStC, or Jjakji who consistently go for macro games. I can't think of a Korean Protoss player who looks for macro games often times in PvT, as they usually wind up doing some sort of timing attack, whether it is 1, 2, and very rarely 3 bases. The problem isn't lack of skill, but lack of depth in the play. Korean Protoss players are constantly aggressive--or, at the very least they are overly predictable.


Puzzle, and he got rolled pretty much every single time in PvT everytime due to EMP lategame. MC as well, after his GSL March win, and had alot of success against against Terran, with Puma and Bomber.

MC does Timing attacks in almost every game he plays. He is far from a Macro-Protoss. And Puzzle's PvT has never really impressed me. Maybe it's because he beat MMA with Dark Templar back in Code A and still almost managed to lose those games due to poor control and macro, but I just don't think he really understands the match-ups that well.

But regardless, congrats on naming a single Korean Macro Protoss.


Anyone who says "show me a macro protoss herp derp" doesn't really understand the game.... In late game situations terran has the ability to have a much more massive army than toss because they are running off of almost purely mules.. thats at least 30+ extra supply in army comp. Toss have always relied on timing pushes because they are the weakest macro race...

You know, about a year ago people were saying that Terran couldn't compete in the late game and that's why you had BitByBit-type players going all-in game after game after game.

That's before terrans realized that they had the best spellcaster in the game.

Maybe Protoss haven't realized that they, in fact, have the best spellcaster in the game....

I think it's kind of amusing how parallel your argument looks to that of Terran players back in the early days of StarCraft 2. Maybe we'll see more players doing the Warp Prism-High Templar drop play to shield their Templar from EMPs and suddenly the High Templar will be recognized as the best spellcaster.
below66
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1761 Posts
October 26 2011 02:42 GMT
#1174
On October 26 2011 11:40 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
I wish foreign Terran players actually knew how to play decently so that way Blizzard can be more serious about balancing PvT. DK doesn't even watch GSL.... so if he's not going to judge balance where people know how to play the game well, then the non-Korean players better start studying how the Koreans play in order to show Kim the issues that exist.



I doubt that he has no one filling him in on how the korean scene is developing, if not watching himself sometimes. It would be crazy not to watch the game you're trying to balance being played the way it's supposed to be played; at the highest possible level.
Vanidar
Profile Joined October 2010
United States66 Posts
October 26 2011 02:42 GMT
#1175
I've got to say, I really like this. Zerg has a definitive advantage to economy - they grab expansions and a lot of map control with fast units, and the swarm replenishes itself quickly.

Terran has a definitive advantage to flexibility with the wide range of tech and upgrade paths available to them. And with the Seige Tank, they have certain advantages to defensive play and the ability to deny areas of the map, once established.

Both of the above races have great harassment options (protoss is just getting started along that path)

Protoss has chronoboost. And even then, it feels like a lot of the upgrades(Blink and warp gate research times in particular) and unit build times(Carriers, Colossi, anyone?) are balanced to ASSUME chronoboost. With this buff to upgrade costs, it should significantly help with gas management, and help Protoss players feel like "Research/Technology" is their advantage.

I'm a little confused that Air Weapons/Armor levels 2 and 3 aren't being touched. Did Blizz forget those pesky cybercore upgrades even exist? I can't remember the last time I ever saw someone get more than +1 air weapons for any reason.
I supply depot rush into fast expand.
Deleted User 183001
Profile Joined May 2011
2939 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-26 02:44:39
October 26 2011 02:43 GMT
#1176
On October 26 2011 11:38 locant wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2011 11:24 lee365 wrote:
Well, after this patch it seems I'm going to all in every Protoss I play. If I can barely win a normal game now, after this patch I'm doomed.

This.
I played a tvp yesterday were I was up a base the whole game, up in upgrades, had perfect emp and still got rolled. Im either going to 6 rax, go back to the 1/1/1 or switch to protoss as this is horrible. I feel sorry for zergs now as they were already having a hard time

Besides the fact that your post is hilarious bs, you want to switch from the strongest race to the weakest race? Or are you in Bronze-Silver where Protoss is actually the best?

I doubt that he has no one filling him in on how the korean scene is developing, if not watching himself sometimes. It would be crazy not to watch the game you're trying to balance being played the way it's supposed to be played; at the highest possible level.

If that were the case, Kim would be watching GSL over every other tournament. In fact, he would be watching every single set and series. Not casually saying he rarely watches a match from it.
Deezl
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States355 Posts
October 26 2011 02:43 GMT
#1177
FUX TO THE HELLS YEA I can actually now reasonably consider shield upgrades WATCH YOSELF.
Three hundred lives of men I have walked this world, and now I have no time.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 26 2011 02:43 GMT
#1178
On October 26 2011 11:40 Cloud9157 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2011 11:38 locant wrote:
On October 26 2011 11:24 lee365 wrote:
Well, after this patch it seems I'm going to all in every Protoss I play. If I can barely win a normal game now, after this patch I'm doomed.

This.
I played a tvp yesterday were I was up a base the whole game, up in upgrades, had perfect emp and still got rolled. Im either going to 6 rax, go back to the 1/1/1 or switch to protoss as this is horrible. I feel sorry for zergs now as they were already having a hard time


"I did bad so therefore this change sucks"

Post a replay or bs.

Zergs were having a hard time? NO. Before NP change, Zergs were dominating Protoss to the point that it was a complete joke.


His EMPs were PREFECT. Didn't you see, they were perfect. He played a game that rivaled MVP and still lost.

Seriously, the cost reduction is very slight. Still that extra 50 gas off +2/+2 will put me one step close to charge or blink. Not huge, but nice.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
DoLookMoreLike
Profile Joined January 2011
155 Posts
October 26 2011 02:43 GMT
#1179
On October 26 2011 11:23 NicolBolas wrote:
Honestly, the shield change has been a long time coming. I know it affects everything the Protoss has, but shields are only ever at most 50% of a unit's total health and usually less. And while they do regenerate, they only do that outside of combat. Bumping them down to reasonable levels is something the Protoss has needed since SC1.

I think the radius change on EMP is reasonable, considering the cost of Ghosts and the power of the spell vs. Protoss. At the same time, it might have been just as reasonable to make it high-tech research. On the plus side, Terrans will have to be stronger on their micro to properly blanket a late-game Protoss army.

I'm a bit less sure about the changes to ground attack and ground armor. Those belong more on flying attack/armor than ground. Protoss always gets these, so it's not like they're too cheap or something. Encouraging the use of flying units by lowering their research cost wouldn't be a bad idea.


You summed up my feelings about this patch very well there, Mr Bolas.

Overall this looks like a promising patch.
Rndm
WinteRR
Profile Joined May 2011
Australia201 Posts
October 26 2011 02:43 GMT
#1180
On October 26 2011 11:36 Cloud9157 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2011 11:32 Hantak wrote:
I dont know man... i play terran and my hardest matchup is TvP im ranked 6 on my plat division on the NA server, and at my level is a very hard matchup because of the amount of micro involved on kiting and the rather low effort it takes to use a protoss death ball (im very sure i could use protoss at gold level, but i wouldnt be sure unless i switched), i mean, you got to worry to have enough warp gates, keep your zealots on the front, use guardian shield and try to cut off about 1/3 of the Terran bio ball, focus fire vikings, and maybe land one or 2 good placed storms, (well i dont consider this to be much compared to kitting and emp'ing while dealing with terran macro). Now that i think about it the hardest thing is to be able to regroup properly given toss can restore most of its army on site via warp in, usually if i dont crush the toss he can pretty much move in and kill me.

I dont really like the upgrade changes on the ptr, yet i have to test them, but i think this only really benefits timing attacks and makes even easier to get an upgrade lead as protoss because of chronoboost, now kiting will be even more important for terran and so will be to get attacks upgrades for the infantry.

The emp nerf... well it was quite powerfull, but i think this will make dealing with infestors even harder, we will have to rely even more heavily on tanks to avoid getting our marines fungaled, and the doomsday infestor-broodlord or infestor-ultralisk and the tech switches between them will be even harder to deal with as infestors take care of most of our counters quite easily, specially vikings. guess we will need to rely on mass ghosts, until they nerf snipe lol


I can just as easily say it requires little effort to press T and stutter step.

To deal with Infestors, Snipe them.


That's a massive joke right?

I think it's pretty safe to assume you haven't experienced TvP at a decent level judging by that terrible/inaccurate assumption akin to a bronze level analysis.
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