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On October 26 2011 07:55 Snorkle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 26 2011 07:50 synergy_sin wrote:
Hmm, when are they nerfing Psi Storm radius too? Guess it's okay for Protoss to do massive AoE damage to a Terran army, but not okay for EMP to disable Protoss Shields and spellcasters.
Do you really want to cause a huge discussion about ghosts vs. high templar? We already lost Khaydarin Amulet. Let my guys cloak. Let my guys have longer range. Let my guys move faster. Let my guys be lower on the tech tree. Let my guys be cheaper. Let my guys hard-counter your entire race. And then I'll take a shorter blast radius for one of my spells. No need to talk anymore about this. Show nested quote +Patch 7 (version 0.9.0.14621B)
The Psi Storm radius has been decreased from 2 to 1.5. We already had a shorter blats radius.....
LOL even better 
I don't really see these two patch changes as being game-breaking. It was clear that the ghost was a bit overpowered, and we'll have to see if the EMP nerf will help fix what's wrong with it (certainly against Protoss, don't know about vs. Zerg though).
The Protoss upgrade buff isn't really that big a difference, even though a lot of people are reacting that way. If a Protoss player really wanted to start an upgrade, he would just have to wait an extra 15 seconds or so for the extra 50 or 100 (or however many) gas anyway.
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Oooooooh shiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeet.
Finally a change to the ghost! I will take the cheaper upgrades with a big fat smile on my face too!
Protoss figting!
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I like this, I just hope the ghost buff is enough to help late game ZvT
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On October 26 2011 07:59 Finality wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:50 synergy_sin wrote:
Hmm, when are they nerfing Psi Storm radius too? Guess it's okay for Protoss to do massive AoE damage to a Terran army, but not okay for EMP to disable Protoss Shields and spellcasters.
Patch 7 (version 0.9.0.14621B) The Psi Storm radius has been decreased from 2 to 1.5. Looks... oddly familiar...
Hahaha this.
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On October 26 2011 08:00 biaxiong wrote:
This makes up for the amulet nerf which they will never bring back said Dustin Browder.
The amulet nerf is a completely different issue and it was needed.
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As a protoss player I don't think that this will really effect my gameplay at all. It seems like a very subtle change that will only really matter at the top level of play. Often when ghosts are used against me, multiple overlapping EMPs are used that blanket my army anyway.
I think it might not be that great in PvZ though where 1-2 ghosts needs to get off precision EMPs versus infestors.
My greatest hope with this patch is that it makes professional matches/streams more entertaining to watch. EMP --> steamroll is a very anticlimactic end to many otherwise entertaining games.
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WEEHEY terran nerf. Good to see and nice for protoss players. Still need more terran nerf updates!
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I think the protoss change is meant to only affect higher levels of the game, because PvX is pretty balanced (I think) for n00bs. The cost decrease will only really matter in tight builds, because unlike unit costs, it's really a 1-time purchase. At the higher levels though, this might actually make a difference.
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On October 26 2011 07:56 darkcloud8282 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:54 Bagi wrote:On October 26 2011 07:50 Whitewing wrote:On October 26 2011 07:45 Bagi wrote:On October 26 2011 07:40 Whitewing wrote:On October 26 2011 07:39 darkness wrote:On October 26 2011 07:38 Thobrik wrote:
I can't believe they didn't touch the bunker. I really strongly feel terrans should get at the very least 77% of the resources back from salvaging rather than the petty 75. Irony? Because it's about 2 minerals I think. :D Anyway, bunker should give only 50% back imho. Bunker shouldn't even be salvagable at all -_-. Nobody else gets to throw down a defensive structure then voluntarily get rid of it when they don't need it anymore to get most of the money back. Terran's defense is too strong, and their harass is downright lethal. Bunkers are absolutely necessarily to stop certain timing attacks from protoss. When is protoss ever forced to build cannons against terran? Spines can be uprooted and used to control space elsewhere, bunkers can be salvaged, cannons give detection and shoot both ground and air targets. Different defensive structures are different. Protoss builds cannons against banshees and late game to try to deal with harass, but frankly cannons are useless against terran, so that's why they don't build them. Marauders laugh at cannons, and so do marines with medivacs. The point is that a protoss player can always force terran to build 2-4 bunkers or else the terran risks dying to a gateway push. A terran on the other hand has no way to make the protoss waste money on static defense. Now imagine if you cannot salvage the bunkers, every game becomes a huge gamble of either dying outright or getting behind economically because you just wasted hundreds of minerals into something that cannot move and has no utility at all. Thats why salvage exists. Sounds like what Protoss has to do against Zergs... Where's the salvage on cannons?
Protoss can force a zerg to build spine/spore crawlers. A zerg can force a protoss to build cannons (somewhat).
I still don't see a way to force cannons as terran though the way you can force a ton of bunkers.
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On October 26 2011 07:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:50 synergy_sin wrote:
Hmm, when are they nerfing Psi Storm radius too? Guess it's okay for Protoss to do massive AoE damage to a Terran army, but not okay for EMP to disable Protoss Shields and spellcasters.
Do you really want to cause a huge discussion about ghosts vs. high templar? We already lost Khaydarin Amulet. Let my guys cloak. Let my guys have longer range. Let my guys move faster. Let my guys be lower on the tech tree. Let my guys be cheaper. Let my guys hard-counter your entire race. And then I'll take a shorter blast radius for one of my spells. No need to talk anymore about this.
I think protoss need to think past Khaydarin Amulet.
Just for information, warp a templar, wait for 75 energy is THE SAME time as make a ghost/infestor with energy upgrade done.
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On October 26 2011 07:50 synergy_sin wrote:
Hmm, when are they nerfing Psi Storm radius too? Guess it's okay for Protoss to do massive AoE damage to a Terran army, but not okay for EMP to disable Protoss Shields and spellcasters.
It pains me that terran players don't know that storm was reduced to 1.5 radius in beta. Blizzard finally evened up the EMP and storm spells in terms of radius. EMP still has longer range 10 (storm has 9), deals 100 instant damage (whereas storm does 80 over 4 seconds), and drains 100 energy.
Not to mention how much better the ghost is as a unit than the HT. This is like Toss getting their first scoop of ice cream, when terran already had 10.
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I already loved double forge PvT, this just made my day ^_^
Could also make me reconsider shield upgrades in PvZ, shield upgrades help a lot with blink stalkers and archons but were always too expensive. Perhaps instead of going 3/0/0 or 2/1/0 we should now go 2/0/1 in twilight styles? Hmm.....
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Protoss not getting nerfed? And the bunker not getting changed? Why, this can't be right...
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I love the change to EMP and Shield cost... im not sold on the decreased cost to weapon and armor. but we'll see
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United States7483 Posts
I do have to laugh about this EMP nerf to be honest.
Someone a while back made a comparison between two units and nerfs.
Unit A and Unit B are identical on all stats and upgrades, except unit A does 10 damage and unit B only does 4. Unit A is therefore overpowered, or Unit B is underpowered (let's assume the former for argument's sake). Unit A gets nerfed to only deal 8 damage, this is a significant nerf to the unit (20% damage nerf). It's still overpowered, as it's still dealing double damage compared to Unit B.
This nerf to EMP is nowhere near enough, and it's probably too strong still. It needs to either A: not deal all it's damage instanteously and be dodgeable like storm (create an energy draining field), B: deal less damage to shields, or C: Shorter range.
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"It is good day to be giant man alien!"
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On October 26 2011 07:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:50 synergy_sin wrote:
Hmm, when are they nerfing Psi Storm radius too? Guess it's okay for Protoss to do massive AoE damage to a Terran army, but not okay for EMP to disable Protoss Shields and spellcasters.
Do you really want to cause a huge discussion about ghosts vs. high templar? We already lost Khaydarin Amulet. Let my guys cloak. Let my guys have longer range. Let my guys do instant damage. Let my guys move faster. Let my guys be lower on the tech tree. Let my guys be cheaper. Let my guys hard-counter your entire race. And then I'll take a shorter blast radius for one of my spells. No need to talk anymore about this.
Not to mention you don't have to research EMP either, and our templar archives doesn't also double as a friggin WMD.
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On October 26 2011 08:02 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:56 darkcloud8282 wrote:On October 26 2011 07:54 Bagi wrote:On October 26 2011 07:50 Whitewing wrote:On October 26 2011 07:45 Bagi wrote:On October 26 2011 07:40 Whitewing wrote:On October 26 2011 07:39 darkness wrote:On October 26 2011 07:38 Thobrik wrote:
I can't believe they didn't touch the bunker. I really strongly feel terrans should get at the very least 77% of the resources back from salvaging rather than the petty 75. Irony? Because it's about 2 minerals I think. :D Anyway, bunker should give only 50% back imho. Bunker shouldn't even be salvagable at all -_-. Nobody else gets to throw down a defensive structure then voluntarily get rid of it when they don't need it anymore to get most of the money back. Terran's defense is too strong, and their harass is downright lethal. Bunkers are absolutely necessarily to stop certain timing attacks from protoss. When is protoss ever forced to build cannons against terran? Spines can be uprooted and used to control space elsewhere, bunkers can be salvaged, cannons give detection and shoot both ground and air targets. Different defensive structures are different. Protoss builds cannons against banshees and late game to try to deal with harass, but frankly cannons are useless against terran, so that's why they don't build them. Marauders laugh at cannons, and so do marines with medivacs. The point is that a protoss player can always force terran to build 2-4 bunkers or else the terran risks dying to a gateway push. A terran on the other hand has no way to make the protoss waste money on static defense. Now imagine if you cannot salvage the bunkers, every game becomes a huge gamble of either dying outright or getting behind economically because you just wasted hundreds of minerals into something that cannot move and has no utility at all. Thats why salvage exists. Sounds like what Protoss has to do against Zergs... Where's the salvage on cannons? Protoss can force a zerg to build spine/spore crawlers. A zerg can force a protoss to build cannons (somewhat). I still don't see a way to force cannons as terran though the way you can force a ton of bunkers.
Spines and spores are different though, because their construction is generally preferred by Zergs instead of units (more larvae), whereas Protoss and Terran always want to avoid static defense if possible.
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I am interested to see if any shield upgrades become more common, shield upgrades are rarely used because of the cost. EMP nerf is appreciated
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EPT
