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United States7483 Posts
On October 26 2011 07:45 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:40 Whitewing wrote:On October 26 2011 07:39 darkness wrote:On October 26 2011 07:38 Thobrik wrote:
I can't believe they didn't touch the bunker. I really strongly feel terrans should get at the very least 77% of the resources back from salvaging rather than the petty 75. Irony? Because it's about 2 minerals I think. :D Anyway, bunker should give only 50% back imho. Bunker shouldn't even be salvagable at all -_-. Nobody else gets to throw down a defensive structure then voluntarily get rid of it when they don't need it anymore to get most of the money back. Terran's defense is too strong, and their harass is downright lethal. Bunkers are absolutely necessarily to stop certain timing attacks from protoss. When is protoss ever forced to build cannons against terran? Spines can be uprooted and used to control space elsewhere, bunkers can be salvaged, cannons give detection and shoot both ground and air targets. Different defensive structures are different.
Protoss builds cannons against banshees and late game to try to deal with harass, but frankly cannons are useless against terran, so that's why they don't build them. Marauders laugh at cannons, and so do marines with medivacs.
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Hmm, when are they nerfing Psi Storm radius too? Guess it's okay for Protoss to do massive AoE damage to a Terran army, but not okay for EMP to disable Protoss Shields and spellcasters.
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On October 26 2011 07:24 Vari wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:22 Darth Caedus wrote:
EMP is only gonna be 56% as big as before. Nice.
Snipe still brutal vZ, hopefully that will be next. just swarm the ghosts with lings. the end.
Ya because that late in the game there's never any marines or tanks around...
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Canada3139 Posts
rofl so glad I decided to switch races
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I'm sure this has been posted. But I still want to write it down again. That EMP nerf is HUGEEEE.
the covered area is reduced by almost 50% (44%). 2-1.5 looks small on paper, but u have to square it as we all know.
to say it again this is no tiny tweak buff, this is pretty intense.
e: and by buff, I mean nerf.
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On October 26 2011 07:48 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:42 Medrea wrote:On October 26 2011 07:40 Whitewing wrote:On October 26 2011 07:39 darkness wrote:On October 26 2011 07:38 Thobrik wrote:
I can't believe they didn't touch the bunker. I really strongly feel terrans should get at the very least 77% of the resources back from salvaging rather than the petty 75. Irony? Because it's about 2 minerals I think. :D Anyway, bunker should give only 50% back imho. Bunker shouldn't even be salvagable at all -_-. Nobody else gets to throw down a defensive structure then voluntarily get rid of it when they don't need it anymore to get most of the money back. Terran's defense is too strong, and their harass is downright lethal. Its to compliment Zergs being able to uproot and reroot somewhere else. And Protoss used to have phase cannons. But was decided that having two stationary structures inside one unit was enough. It doesn't need to compliment another race. Terran defense is too powerful, and there's very low cost for making a bad decision to bunker. Terran can bunker and sell it if it turns out they didn't need it, and hell, they can sell it even if they did need it, as long as it doesn't die, which it doesn't because they repair it -_-. Zergs need the ability to uproot because their defense is MUCH weaker than Terran's, so bad building position costs them immensely. I feel the same way about protoss, but cannon rushing would be too strong if they could move their cannons. Arc shield should help, but frankly Terran is just too forgiving as a race.
Yeah everything actually has a complimentary component on the other sides. This game was really well designed and thought out. The fine tuning is a different story.
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On October 26 2011 07:50 synergy_sin wrote:
Hmm, when are they nerfing Psi Storm radius too? Guess it's okay for Protoss to do massive AoE damage to a Terran army, but not okay for EMP to disable Protoss Shields and spellcasters.
Storm was nerfed to 1.5 a long time ago. 100 Shield damage is way more damage than a storm does plus the damage is instant I don't even understand how you can be complaining about that.
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Canada3139 Posts
Honestly I was expecting something to deal with late game speed zealots
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On October 26 2011 07:45 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:40 Whitewing wrote:On October 26 2011 07:39 darkness wrote:On October 26 2011 07:38 Thobrik wrote:
I can't believe they didn't touch the bunker. I really strongly feel terrans should get at the very least 77% of the resources back from salvaging rather than the petty 75. Irony? Because it's about 2 minerals I think. :D Anyway, bunker should give only 50% back imho. Bunker shouldn't even be salvagable at all -_-. Nobody else gets to throw down a defensive structure then voluntarily get rid of it when they don't need it anymore to get most of the money back. Terran's defense is too strong, and their harass is downright lethal. Bunkers are absolutely necessarily to stop certain timing attacks from protoss. When is protoss ever forced to build cannons against terran? Spines can be uprooted and used to control space elsewhere, bunkers can be salvaged, cannons give detection and shoot both ground and air targets. Different defensive structures are different.
I don't think they are arguing that Terran don't need bunkers, they are just stating that the fact they get a refund for their building is insane.
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On October 26 2011 07:50 synergy_sin wrote:
Hmm, when are they nerfing Psi Storm radius too? Guess it's okay for Protoss to do massive AoE damage to a Terran army, but not okay for EMP to disable Protoss Shields and spellcasters.
Do you really want to cause a huge discussion about ghosts vs. high templar?
We already lost Khaydarin Amulet.
Let my guys cloak.
Let my guys have longer range.
Let my guys do instant damage.
Let my guys move faster.
Let my guys be lower on the tech tree.
Let my guys be cheaper.
Let my guys hard-counter your entire race.
And then I'll take a shorter blast radius for one of my spells.
No need to talk anymore about this.
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On October 26 2011 06:39 Naphal wrote:
seems ok, dunno about groundarmor/weapon upgradecost for toss tho, i mean they already get the biggest benefit of all races by these upgrades (stricly speaking about number of units affected)
Not true. 4 lings get upgraded per one zealot. 
Anyway, faster attacking units get more dps per upgrade. And lings and marines get a bigger percent damage increase as well. And armor only upgrades half of total hp.
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Hopefully these changes stay in. I know White Ra has even voiced his complaints about EMP and he rarely comments on balance. Glad blizzard is listening to the community.
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On October 26 2011 07:50 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:45 Bagi wrote:On October 26 2011 07:40 Whitewing wrote:On October 26 2011 07:39 darkness wrote:On October 26 2011 07:38 Thobrik wrote:
I can't believe they didn't touch the bunker. I really strongly feel terrans should get at the very least 77% of the resources back from salvaging rather than the petty 75. Irony? Because it's about 2 minerals I think. :D Anyway, bunker should give only 50% back imho. Bunker shouldn't even be salvagable at all -_-. Nobody else gets to throw down a defensive structure then voluntarily get rid of it when they don't need it anymore to get most of the money back. Terran's defense is too strong, and their harass is downright lethal. Bunkers are absolutely necessarily to stop certain timing attacks from protoss. When is protoss ever forced to build cannons against terran? Spines can be uprooted and used to control space elsewhere, bunkers can be salvaged, cannons give detection and shoot both ground and air targets. Different defensive structures are different. Protoss builds cannons against banshees and late game to try to deal with harass, but frankly cannons are useless against terran, so that's why they don't build them. Marauders laugh at cannons, and so do marines with medivacs.
The point is that a protoss player can always force terran to build 2-4 bunkers or else the terran risks dying to a gateway push. A terran on the other hand has no way to make the protoss waste money on static defense.
Now imagine if you cannot salvage the bunkers, every game becomes a huge gamble of either dying outright or getting behind economically because you just wasted hundreds of minerals into something that cannot move and has no utility at all. Thats why salvage exists.
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On October 26 2011 07:52 Snorkle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:50 synergy_sin wrote:
Hmm, when are they nerfing Psi Storm radius too? Guess it's okay for Protoss to do massive AoE damage to a Terran army, but not okay for EMP to disable Protoss Shields and spellcasters.
Storm was nerfed to 1.5 a long time ago. 100 Shield damage is way more damage than a storm does plus the damage is instant I don't even understand how you can be complaining about that.
I didn't know storm was 1.5 radius. But also, you cannot complain about getting a spell nerfed that got rid of 10 shield damage and took out energy instantly.
You can just stim and run out of storms.
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Sometimes I don't understand Blizzard. And I'm not really talking about balance changes, but the effort ratio you need to put to win. Toss is already the easiest race by far, all it requires is making a death ball and win. And now they're nerfing EMP, because P players are too lazy to spread their shit? In TvP terran has to do 100x things at once (stim, split marines, marauders, viking micro, emp) while toss just a-moves, lol. And the funny thing is that in most situations no effort (Protoss) wins. Well, I guess we will see what is gonna change. I wonder when they are gonna take care about problems they mentioned at Blizzcon: colosuss and mass zealot lategame.
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On October 26 2011 07:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:50 synergy_sin wrote:
Hmm, when are they nerfing Psi Storm radius too? Guess it's okay for Protoss to do massive AoE damage to a Terran army, but not okay for EMP to disable Protoss Shields and spellcasters.
Do you really want to cause a huge discussion about ghosts vs. high templar? We already lost Khaydarin Amulet. Let my guys cloak. Let my guys have longer range. Let my guys move faster. Let my guys be lower on the tech tree. Let my guys be cheaper. Let my guys hard-counter your entire race. And then I'll take a shorter blast radius for one of my spells. No need to talk anymore about this.
Patch 7 (version 0.9.0.14621B)
The Psi Storm radius has been decreased from 2 to 1.5.
We already had a shorter blats radius.....
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On October 26 2011 07:00 Malpractice.248 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 06:58 Exarl25 wrote:On October 26 2011 06:57 avilo wrote:
so protoss can get 3/0/3 in like 12-13 min now...i don't think this will turn out well.. They will get 3/3 just as quickly as they always did, just have a couple of extra units along with. Going for 3/3 you only save 150/150 total. Actually, idk, saving that 150 means they can forge sooner; as well as continually pump the upgrades, given the gas is what normally held them back, its cheaper, so 2x @ a time w/chrono? :p
No. Thats the amount that you save total, when you hit 3/3/0. 1/1/0 upgrades cost the same, so you won't be able to build forges and start upgrades any sooner.
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Can't wait to see some new upgrade timings come out of this. Triple forge anyone?
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EPT
