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In HOTS, low pylons no longer power high ground - Page 47

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 45 46 47 48 49 52 Next
MapleFractal
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada307 Posts
June 13 2012 01:59 GMT
#921
Great to see this change is still going into HotS.
its called a Tuque damnit!
Twistacles
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1327 Posts
June 13 2012 02:00 GMT
#922
All this does is get rid of stupid gimmicks. I'm all for it.
"If you don't give a shit which gum you buy, get stride" - Tyler
SKDN
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden243 Posts
June 13 2012 02:01 GMT
#923
Just give us cliff advantage and im fine with this
Xenocryst
Profile Joined December 2010
United States521 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-13 02:13:11
June 13 2012 02:10 GMT
#924
Also to everyone saying you should be able to punish 1 rax Fe: no you shouldnt, if you cant hold a 1 rax fe the game goes into 1 base vs 1 base which is super dumb. We need to be able to build bunkers to defend our natural, you getting to completely bypass that and have an insanely strong cheese when we're doing a macro build is not fair to terrans. Let the game be more macro-focused.

EDIT: also to everyone saying gateway units are trash... learn to stop a-moving and it will get way easier, look to STParting for inspiration.
JLew
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada353 Posts
June 13 2012 02:11 GMT
#925
I'm really confused why they would make this change in HoTS after so long.. the warp in ability on high ground right now really doesn't affect anything and taking it out is limiting diversity. I would assume they realized that people were often not getting warp prisms because they could bypass the use of it with an observer and a cleverly placed pylon..this should make the warp prism more necessary.

That being said I don't think it's a necessary change, it's pretty rare to see low-ground to high ground all in stuff work anymore at a high level and is mostly used for late game harassment warp ins
@Triumph_eSports . www.Triumph-eSports.com
DeCoup
Profile Joined September 2006
Australia1933 Posts
June 13 2012 02:12 GMT
#926
I'm Protoss and I agree with this change. The Warp Prism should be a more vital element in warp-in in general and I believe this is a step in the right direction. If it is considered to be too big a nerf then I hope the fix involves further buffs to the Warp Prism instead of a reversal of the change, however I don't think this will be required.
"Poor guy. I really did not deserve that win. So this is what it's like to play Protoss..." - IdrA
Elucidate
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
205 Posts
June 13 2012 02:34 GMT
#927
As someone who started off playing Protoss before random, I think this is a good start towards fixing up some annoying play but not necessarily the correct one to use as a final decision. However it does show Blizzard is thinking outside the box a little and not just trying to jiggle around build times or reduce damage on something like cannons/gateway units. Let's hope this is more along the lines of a stepping stone idea.
Welcome to Aslan's Country. Sanctuary Cat on DotA 2.
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
June 13 2012 02:37 GMT
#928
It just baffles me that people think they're entitled to play safe macro openers for the first 10 minutes of the game. Learn to react and stop trying to patch your greedy into safety.
Kingy604
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom54 Posts
June 13 2012 02:45 GMT
#929
Doesn't seem massively bad as long as you can still go high-to-low, but it still removes a load of harass strategies from protoss (using halluc/obs/phoenix) and I have seen a lot of pro's use this as a good suplement to stargate play, attack the front while harassing and warping in in the main, this change would destroy all of these tactics and remove choices from the game (something blizzard expressly stated was one of the things they were looking to increase with the HOTS expansion)

Although i cant help but be in favour of any change that helps prevent cannon rushes.
"Its all fun and games, until someone looses an eye... Then it is fun and games you can't see anymore."
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3188 Posts
June 13 2012 02:51 GMT
#930
On June 13 2012 11:37 Shiori wrote:
It just baffles me that people think they're entitled to play safe macro openers for the first 10 minutes of the game. Learn to react and stop trying to patch your greedy into safety.

It baffles you that people think there should be a safe expansion build that doesn't rely on metagaming their opponent and hoping they don't get all-ined? You, my friend, are easily baffled.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
June 13 2012 02:56 GMT
#931
On June 13 2012 11:51 ChristianS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2012 11:37 Shiori wrote:
It just baffles me that people think they're entitled to play safe macro openers for the first 10 minutes of the game. Learn to react and stop trying to patch your greedy into safety.

It baffles you that people think there should be a safe expansion build that doesn't rely on metagaming their opponent and hoping they don't get all-ined? You, my friend, are easily baffled.

If you needed to 'metagame' to stop a 3gate Void Ray all-in or Cannon Rush, I'm not sure what to say.

All fast expansion builds are on some level vulnerable to all-ins. Warping on the high ground has nothing to do with the strength of any all-ins aside from the 3Gate VR one, as far as I know, and that's hardly a strong PvT all-in as things go. Try scouting. Better yet, try explaining to me how this change is necessary to protect 1rax FE (which is already standard..)
Protosnake
Profile Joined September 2011
France295 Posts
June 13 2012 03:00 GMT
#932
On June 13 2012 11:37 Shiori wrote:
It just baffles me that people think they're entitled to play safe macro openers for the first 10 minutes of the game. Learn to react and stop trying to patch your greedy into safety.


You can still be aggressive as protoss
Cannon rush will get nerfed, while still being good
You can still warp on high ground, you'll need a warp prism

That was just allowing the most gimmicky play, that awful players could pull off and there wasnt much you could do about it
rd
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2586 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-13 03:01:00
June 13 2012 03:00 GMT
#933
On June 13 2012 11:12 DeCoup wrote:
I'm Protoss and I agree with this change. The Warp Prism should be a more vital element in warp-in in general and I believe this is a step in the right direction. If it is considered to be too big a nerf then I hope the fix involves further buffs to the Warp Prism instead of a reversal of the change, however I don't think this will be required.


Warp prism use won't be affected by this regardless of whether or not it gets removed. Don't know why people keep bringing them up. All this does is remove an aggressive mechanic which will kill a few builds relying on it.
ABagOfFritos
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada454 Posts
June 13 2012 03:02 GMT
#934
On June 13 2012 11:01 SKDN wrote:
Just give us cliff advantage and im fine with this

Is this post serious?
Protosnake
Profile Joined September 2011
France295 Posts
June 13 2012 03:02 GMT
#935
On June 13 2012 12:00 Tyrant0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2012 11:12 DeCoup wrote:
I'm Protoss and I agree with this change. The Warp Prism should be a more vital element in warp-in in general and I believe this is a step in the right direction. If it is considered to be too big a nerf then I hope the fix involves further buffs to the Warp Prism instead of a reversal of the change, however I don't think this will be required.


Warp prism use won't be affected by this regardless of whether or not it gets removed. Don't know why people keep bringing them up. All this does is remove an aggressive mechanic which will kill a few builds relying on it.


There are 2 way to warp on high ground, Pylon powering high ground and WP
The first is removed and you dare say that it wont affect the second ?
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
June 13 2012 03:03 GMT
#936
On June 13 2012 12:00 Protosnake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2012 11:37 Shiori wrote:
It just baffles me that people think they're entitled to play safe macro openers for the first 10 minutes of the game. Learn to react and stop trying to patch your greedy into safety.


You can still be aggressive as protoss
Cannon rush will get nerfed, while still being good
You can still warp on high ground, you'll need a warp prism

That was just allowing the most gimmicky play, that awful players could pull off and there wasnt much you could do about it

Yeah, because I'm sure MKP loses regularly to gold players who 4gate him. Come on. Gimmicks are part of the game. If you lose to them, it's because you reacted badly and didn't scout. Every race has their own set of gimmicks.
Protosnake
Profile Joined September 2011
France295 Posts
June 13 2012 03:08 GMT
#937
On June 13 2012 12:03 Shiori wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2012 12:00 Protosnake wrote:
On June 13 2012 11:37 Shiori wrote:
It just baffles me that people think they're entitled to play safe macro openers for the first 10 minutes of the game. Learn to react and stop trying to patch your greedy into safety.


You can still be aggressive as protoss
Cannon rush will get nerfed, while still being good
You can still warp on high ground, you'll need a warp prism

That was just allowing the most gimmicky play, that awful players could pull off and there wasnt much you could do about it

Yeah, because I'm sure MKP loses regularly to gold players who 4gate him. Come on. Gimmicks are part of the game. If you lose to them, it's because you reacted badly and didn't scout. Every race has their own set of gimmicks.


Yeah because only the highest pro level matter ? I think not.
And even at pro level, Polt got successfully cannon rushed by Sase.
It's easy to just say "Just scout and react" without thinking that pylon powering high ground force you to scout your entire base constantly because even though not a single probe went up your ramp you're still in danger.
So in the actual game, you cannot consistently scout that.
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-13 03:12:00
June 13 2012 03:10 GMT
#938
On June 13 2012 12:08 Protosnake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2012 12:03 Shiori wrote:
On June 13 2012 12:00 Protosnake wrote:
On June 13 2012 11:37 Shiori wrote:
It just baffles me that people think they're entitled to play safe macro openers for the first 10 minutes of the game. Learn to react and stop trying to patch your greedy into safety.


You can still be aggressive as protoss
Cannon rush will get nerfed, while still being good
You can still warp on high ground, you'll need a warp prism

That was just allowing the most gimmicky play, that awful players could pull off and there wasnt much you could do about it

Yeah, because I'm sure MKP loses regularly to gold players who 4gate him. Come on. Gimmicks are part of the game. If you lose to them, it's because you reacted badly and didn't scout. Every race has their own set of gimmicks.


Yeah because only the highest pro level matter ? I think not.
And even at pro level, Polt got successfully cannon rushed by Sase.
It's easy to just say "Just scout and react" without thinking that pylon powering high ground force you to scout your entire base constantly because even though not a single probe went up your ramp you're still in danger.
So in the actual game, you cannot consistently scout that.

Lol, you're actually using that one game of Sase vs Polt where Polt took a super early CC without scouting at all and lost to a blind Cannon rush?

It's really easy to keep track of a Probe. You don't need to be in GM to do it. Like, if Cannon rushing is so strong, why does barely anyone do it (outside of maybe PvP)? According to you, even awful players can execute it easily, so why isn't it standard in every Toss matchup? Oh, that's right: because it's a coinflip, and a bad one at that.

In order to justify a balance chance, you need to be able to show that the current situation gives rise to problems that manifest in overpowered strategies. Warping on the high ground doesn't feature in any overpowered strategy, as far as I'm concerned. If you disagree, please tell me which strategies are overpowered because of Pylons allowing high-ground warpin.
Protosnake
Profile Joined September 2011
France295 Posts
June 13 2012 03:13 GMT
#939
Lol, you're actually using that one game of Sase vs Polt where Polt took a super early CC without scouting at all and lost to a blind Cannon rush?

It's really easy to keep track of a Probe. You don't need to be in GM to do it. Like, if Cannon rushing is so strong, why does barely anyone do it (outside of maybe PvP)? According to you, even awful players can execute it easily, so why isn't it standard in every Toss matchup? Oh, that's right: because it's a coinflip, and a bad one at that.


"It's not a standard build, so it's not common, so it's not a problem"
Things dont work like that. Especially in HOTS were stargate play is way more prevalent.
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
June 13 2012 03:14 GMT
#940
On June 13 2012 12:13 Protosnake wrote:
Show nested quote +
Lol, you're actually using that one game of Sase vs Polt where Polt took a super early CC without scouting at all and lost to a blind Cannon rush?

It's really easy to keep track of a Probe. You don't need to be in GM to do it. Like, if Cannon rushing is so strong, why does barely anyone do it (outside of maybe PvP)? According to you, even awful players can execute it easily, so why isn't it standard in every Toss matchup? Oh, that's right: because it's a coinflip, and a bad one at that.


"It's not a standard build, so it's not common, so it's not a problem"
Things dont work like that. Especially in HOTS were stargate play is way more prevalent.

That's exactly how it works, actually. Suppose there's a really overpowered build, like 1-1-1 was when it first came out. It had an exorbitantly high win rate. Guess what? People used it like 80% of the time because it was so good. If warping onto the high ground were so amazing, every single Protoss would be doing it at least twice in a BoX. Since they don't, I can only imagine that they don't believe it's so powerful, hence it doesn't deserve a nerf.
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