EPTIn HOTS, low pylons no longer power high ground - Page 47
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MapleFractal
Canada307 Posts
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Twistacles
Canada1327 Posts
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SKDN
Sweden243 Posts
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Xenocryst
United States521 Posts
EDIT: also to everyone saying gateway units are trash... learn to stop a-moving and it will get way easier, look to STParting for inspiration. | ||
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JLew
Canada353 Posts
That being said I don't think it's a necessary change, it's pretty rare to see low-ground to high ground all in stuff work anymore at a high level and is mostly used for late game harassment warp ins | ||
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
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Elucidate
205 Posts
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Shiori
3815 Posts
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Kingy604
United Kingdom54 Posts
Although i cant help but be in favour of any change that helps prevent cannon rushes. | ||
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ChristianS
United States3187 Posts
On June 13 2012 11:37 Shiori wrote: It just baffles me that people think they're entitled to play safe macro openers for the first 10 minutes of the game. Learn to react and stop trying to patch your greedy into safety. It baffles you that people think there should be a safe expansion build that doesn't rely on metagaming their opponent and hoping they don't get all-ined? You, my friend, are easily baffled. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On June 13 2012 11:51 ChristianS wrote: It baffles you that people think there should be a safe expansion build that doesn't rely on metagaming their opponent and hoping they don't get all-ined? You, my friend, are easily baffled. If you needed to 'metagame' to stop a 3gate Void Ray all-in or Cannon Rush, I'm not sure what to say. All fast expansion builds are on some level vulnerable to all-ins. Warping on the high ground has nothing to do with the strength of any all-ins aside from the 3Gate VR one, as far as I know, and that's hardly a strong PvT all-in as things go. Try scouting. Better yet, try explaining to me how this change is necessary to protect 1rax FE (which is already standard..) | ||
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Protosnake
France295 Posts
On June 13 2012 11:37 Shiori wrote: It just baffles me that people think they're entitled to play safe macro openers for the first 10 minutes of the game. Learn to react and stop trying to patch your greedy into safety. You can still be aggressive as protoss Cannon rush will get nerfed, while still being good You can still warp on high ground, you'll need a warp prism That was just allowing the most gimmicky play, that awful players could pull off and there wasnt much you could do about it | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On June 13 2012 11:12 DeCoup wrote: I'm Protoss and I agree with this change. The Warp Prism should be a more vital element in warp-in in general and I believe this is a step in the right direction. If it is considered to be too big a nerf then I hope the fix involves further buffs to the Warp Prism instead of a reversal of the change, however I don't think this will be required. Warp prism use won't be affected by this regardless of whether or not it gets removed. Don't know why people keep bringing them up. All this does is remove an aggressive mechanic which will kill a few builds relying on it. | ||
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ABagOfFritos
Canada454 Posts
On June 13 2012 11:01 SKDN wrote: Just give us cliff advantage and im fine with this Is this post serious? | ||
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Protosnake
France295 Posts
On June 13 2012 12:00 Tyrant0 wrote: Warp prism use won't be affected by this regardless of whether or not it gets removed. Don't know why people keep bringing them up. All this does is remove an aggressive mechanic which will kill a few builds relying on it. There are 2 way to warp on high ground, Pylon powering high ground and WP The first is removed and you dare say that it wont affect the second ? | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On June 13 2012 12:00 Protosnake wrote: You can still be aggressive as protoss Cannon rush will get nerfed, while still being good You can still warp on high ground, you'll need a warp prism That was just allowing the most gimmicky play, that awful players could pull off and there wasnt much you could do about it Yeah, because I'm sure MKP loses regularly to gold players who 4gate him. Come on. Gimmicks are part of the game. If you lose to them, it's because you reacted badly and didn't scout. Every race has their own set of gimmicks. | ||
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Protosnake
France295 Posts
On June 13 2012 12:03 Shiori wrote: Yeah, because I'm sure MKP loses regularly to gold players who 4gate him. Come on. Gimmicks are part of the game. If you lose to them, it's because you reacted badly and didn't scout. Every race has their own set of gimmicks. Yeah because only the highest pro level matter ? I think not. And even at pro level, Polt got successfully cannon rushed by Sase. It's easy to just say "Just scout and react" without thinking that pylon powering high ground force you to scout your entire base constantly because even though not a single probe went up your ramp you're still in danger. So in the actual game, you cannot consistently scout that. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On June 13 2012 12:08 Protosnake wrote: Yeah because only the highest pro level matter ? I think not. And even at pro level, Polt got successfully cannon rushed by Sase. It's easy to just say "Just scout and react" without thinking that pylon powering high ground force you to scout your entire base constantly because even though not a single probe went up your ramp you're still in danger. So in the actual game, you cannot consistently scout that. Lol, you're actually using that one game of Sase vs Polt where Polt took a super early CC without scouting at all and lost to a blind Cannon rush? It's really easy to keep track of a Probe. You don't need to be in GM to do it. Like, if Cannon rushing is so strong, why does barely anyone do it (outside of maybe PvP)? According to you, even awful players can execute it easily, so why isn't it standard in every Toss matchup? Oh, that's right: because it's a coinflip, and a bad one at that. In order to justify a balance chance, you need to be able to show that the current situation gives rise to problems that manifest in overpowered strategies. Warping on the high ground doesn't feature in any overpowered strategy, as far as I'm concerned. If you disagree, please tell me which strategies are overpowered because of Pylons allowing high-ground warpin. | ||
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Protosnake
France295 Posts
Lol, you're actually using that one game of Sase vs Polt where Polt took a super early CC without scouting at all and lost to a blind Cannon rush? It's really easy to keep track of a Probe. You don't need to be in GM to do it. Like, if Cannon rushing is so strong, why does barely anyone do it (outside of maybe PvP)? According to you, even awful players can execute it easily, so why isn't it standard in every Toss matchup? Oh, that's right: because it's a coinflip, and a bad one at that. "It's not a standard build, so it's not common, so it's not a problem" Things dont work like that. Especially in HOTS were stargate play is way more prevalent. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On June 13 2012 12:13 Protosnake wrote: "It's not a standard build, so it's not common, so it's not a problem" Things dont work like that. Especially in HOTS were stargate play is way more prevalent. That's exactly how it works, actually. Suppose there's a really overpowered build, like 1-1-1 was when it first came out. It had an exorbitantly high win rate. Guess what? People used it like 80% of the time because it was so good. If warping onto the high ground were so amazing, every single Protoss would be doing it at least twice in a BoX. Since they don't, I can only imagine that they don't believe it's so powerful, hence it doesn't deserve a nerf. | ||
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