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In HOTS, low pylons no longer power high ground - Page 44

Forum Index > SC2 General
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PandaTank
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
South Africa255 Posts
June 12 2012 18:01 GMT
#861
I'm glad that this will slightly nerf cannon rushes, but I don't think its neccesary in PvZ or PvT. If zerg or terran lets a pylon go up at the edge of their base they deserve units in their base to be honest.
facebook.com/PandaTank \\\ @PandaTankSC2
rd
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2586 Posts
June 12 2012 18:01 GMT
#862
On June 13 2012 02:53 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:
Do protoss realize that you are no losing the ability to warp in on the high ground? Protoss still have the Warp prism do they not? The only thing this will eliminate are cheesy VR all ins.


And the question remains: Why does this need to be removed? The cheese isn't strong unless it goes unscouted or you took a blind risk.
InfusedTT.DaZe
Profile Joined August 2010
Romania693 Posts
June 12 2012 18:03 GMT
#863
i hate this change, it solves some cheesy pvp but alot less options in pvt and pvz t_t
"Echoes of past events nudge the tiller on my present course, I await its reflection in the future"
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
June 12 2012 18:03 GMT
#864
Well it is nice to aggressively put a pylon near the ramp and take it just getting a glimpse of high ground, but its something that reduces the defenders advantage by alot and probably affects the strength of the early game units, that needed to be held even without something like ramp. With this put a bit higher up the tech, protoss early game has a chance to be buffed, to make up for it.
The MSC for example being able to refill a sentry, so you don't even need 5 sentries to keep a ramp blocked. Or the Oracle being able to make your units invisible, so the opponent has no idea without detection what you have down there and where.

The Pylon may be weaker, but toss got alot of other new things that can be used for mid/early game pushes.
Grapefruit
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany439 Posts
June 12 2012 18:04 GMT
#865
If they thinks this is a valid change, why don't we get it now?
Starcraft 2 is funny, everybody picks the race, which he considers to be the weakest. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Valkola
Profile Joined April 2010
Finland128 Posts
June 12 2012 18:08 GMT
#866
On June 12 2012 08:28 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2012 08:25 Shantastic wrote:
You can still cannon rush, but it'll be harder. You'll have to build a pylon on the high ground first under the protection of your cannons on the low ground.

This is a stupid change IMO. The mechanics of low pylon + high-ground vision warp-ins made for much more interesting early-game, especially in PvP, where defending the ramp was so key to holding the attack.


I don't think it was interesting at all, tbh was completely stupid and hope it's still removed.


You have no idea what went itno 4 gating in PvP. Iäm sad if it goes away
Mmm..
Swords
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
6038 Posts
June 12 2012 18:09 GMT
#867
On June 13 2012 03:03 FeyFey wrote:
Well it is nice to aggressively put a pylon near the ramp and take it just getting a glimpse of high ground, but its something that reduces the defenders advantage by alot and probably affects the strength of the early game units, that needed to be held even without something like ramp. With this put a bit higher up the tech, protoss early game has a chance to be buffed, to make up for it.
The MSC for example being able to refill a sentry, so you don't even need 5 sentries to keep a ramp blocked. Or the Oracle being able to make your units invisible, so the opponent has no idea without detection what you have down there and where.

The Pylon may be weaker, but toss got alot of other new things that can be used for mid/early game pushes.


It also allows the Protoss to be a lot more defensive/macro oriented in the early/mid game. The MSC provides static defense. Oracle can provide cloaking. The energy spell from the MSC can give near unlimited forcefields. I think Protoss will be able to expand far more safely than they can currently, and thus early/midgame pushes will be less important.
Cirqueenflex
Profile Joined October 2010
499 Posts
June 12 2012 18:10 GMT
#868
i think this change is awesome. On some maps cannon rushes from low ground were often times just a free win. Just for the hard nerf to those cannon rushes i like the change. Overall it really is just a nerf to protoss cheese, which i feel like is okay, given the planned addition of the perfect harassment unit
Give a man a fire, you keep him warm for a night. Set a man on fire, and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.
Rkie
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States1278 Posts
June 12 2012 18:16 GMT
#869
Do you think Protoss will get their warpgate research time back because of all the pylon nerfs?
Uber_Nick
Profile Joined November 2010
United States23 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-12 18:23:50
June 12 2012 18:18 GMT
#870
@Duckvillelol

You said that cannon rushes shouldn't be part of the discussion because they're not viable and are easy to beat. I'd like to contest this particular point.

High level cannon rushes, currently, are a viable, tough-to-beat option. Ever watch gaulzi play? He's beaten plenty of GMs with mostly cannon rushes. I even have an NA account that was just ranked in the top 800 of all US Masters players and it did nothing but cannon rush every single game on every map. Over 60% win ratio and only played enough games to keep bonus pool at 0. I'm surprised it's never seen at the highest level play similar to how 11/11 proxy rax builds are, but I'm convinced it's still viable.

At high Masters, it's incredibly hard to deal with even when you know it's coming. I've played plenty of top masters consecutive times on the same maps, cannon rushed and won the first one, told them I'm doing it again and won *again* with the same thing. If you haven't played against a high level player doing it, you're going to have some false ideas about its validity and difficultly to deal with. HOTS will change the dynamic of this for sure.
vBr
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden193 Posts
June 12 2012 18:20 GMT
#871
On June 13 2012 03:01 PandaTank wrote:
I'm glad that this will slightly nerf cannon rushes, but I don't think its neccesary in PvZ or PvT. If zerg or terran lets a pylon go up at the edge of their base they deserve units in their base to be honest.


and how do you counter that in the early game -.-? I'm thinking proxy gateway rushes and cannons
-TesteR-
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1165 Posts
June 12 2012 18:22 GMT
#872
On June 12 2012 19:09 Space Invader wrote:
warpgate is already overpowered as hell, anything to make it worse is great


which is why gateway units are underpowered as hell, maybe there will be a buff in HotS after this change.
-TesteR-
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1165 Posts
June 12 2012 18:25 GMT
#873
On June 13 2012 02:59 thezanursic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2011 18:38 K_Dilkington wrote:
haha they must really hate the protoss race or something. Maybe they will do lots of balancing so this change wont be so bad, we will see.

*cough* 22 range *cough*


*cough* lower dps than a roach *cough*

:D
a3den
Profile Joined April 2012
704 Posts
June 12 2012 18:27 GMT
#874
I must admit I kinda like it as a scrub :3
banedroppa
Profile Joined March 2012
Sweden44 Posts
June 12 2012 18:28 GMT
#875
best change ever nerf toss!
asdqsgsfasf
Stropheum
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1124 Posts
June 12 2012 18:31 GMT
#876
This is old news. I think at the first hots preview, people mentioned this. I could be wrong/psychic though
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
June 12 2012 18:32 GMT
#877
seems incredibly stupid in 1v1, but thank god in 2v2s. the cannon cheese....fuuuuuuu.
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
June 12 2012 18:34 GMT
#878
On June 13 2012 03:31 Stropheum wrote:
This is old news. I think at the first hots preview, people mentioned this. I could be wrong/psychic though

Yes this is an old thread, it was bumped to see if anyone tested it in the updated version of HotS, unfortunately it seems like nobody tried it.
TeeTS
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany2762 Posts
June 12 2012 18:35 GMT
#879
I was waiting for this a long time now. This fucking 3gate VR allin is way too strong. How many times did we see the Terran even scout it and still was unable to hold (in GSL Code S, not in the gold league!!!). Thank god Blizzard actually cares about the game!
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
June 12 2012 18:37 GMT
#880
It knocks out a lot of Protoss mobility imo. I've also been playing around with using low ground pylons w/ observer lategame for proxy harass, would be a shame to see it go. I've seen some pretty good success with it too.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
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