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United States6151 Posts
On October 25 2011 06:13 VPCursed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 06:10 Shiori wrote:On October 25 2011 06:08 VPCursed wrote:
i've always felt that the voidray strats with warpin on high ground are a little OP.
On some maps it can be very hard to move between ur main bunkers and nat bunkers, and if he can FF the ramp from low ground you just basically lose. I've even seen pros lose to amateurs doing this, despite the pro preparing for it, im honestly surprised by the backlash. There are still many means for protoss aggression, its not like warp prism all in's haven't been uncommon on the ladder lately. there are plenty of strats that terran can do that are "very hard" to hold off. how is that an argument against them being the game? its not that its hard to hold off, its that i can look at my game and say.. well maybe i should just build 5-6 raxes from now on when i expand. I mean, you have to understand that holding this off on some maps is borderline impossible, you cannot prepare for it effectively. Optimally yes.. effectively no.
Or maybe you should have expanded AFTER you had more units?
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Warp mechanic was such an awesome idea they have had to nerf it to oblivion xD This is BS.
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On October 25 2011 06:16 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 06:13 VPCursed wrote:On October 25 2011 06:10 Shiori wrote:On October 25 2011 06:08 VPCursed wrote:
i've always felt that the voidray strats with warpin on high ground are a little OP.
On some maps it can be very hard to move between ur main bunkers and nat bunkers, and if he can FF the ramp from low ground you just basically lose. I've even seen pros lose to amateurs doing this, despite the pro preparing for it, im honestly surprised by the backlash. There are still many means for protoss aggression, its not like warp prism all in's haven't been uncommon on the ladder lately. there are plenty of strats that terran can do that are "very hard" to hold off. how is that an argument against them being the game? its not that its hard to hold off, its that i can look at my game and say.. well maybe i should just build 5-6 raxes from now on when i expand. I mean, you have to understand that holding this off on some maps is borderline impossible, you cannot prepare for it effectively. Optimally yes.. effectively no. Or maybe you should have expanded AFTER you had more units?
ye, How stupid of me to expand so soon, Terrain is no obstacle for toss and it should never be!
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I feel this will really take away from a part of the game, I don't think this is necessary since they've nerved the pylon range and the vision up ramps range. Who knows it still might not be implemented if they deem the change to be worthless.
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On October 25 2011 06:18 VPCursed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 06:16 VirgilSC2 wrote:On October 25 2011 06:13 VPCursed wrote:On October 25 2011 06:10 Shiori wrote:On October 25 2011 06:08 VPCursed wrote:
i've always felt that the voidray strats with warpin on high ground are a little OP.
On some maps it can be very hard to move between ur main bunkers and nat bunkers, and if he can FF the ramp from low ground you just basically lose. I've even seen pros lose to amateurs doing this, despite the pro preparing for it, im honestly surprised by the backlash. There are still many means for protoss aggression, its not like warp prism all in's haven't been uncommon on the ladder lately. there are plenty of strats that terran can do that are "very hard" to hold off. how is that an argument against them being the game? its not that its hard to hold off, its that i can look at my game and say.. well maybe i should just build 5-6 raxes from now on when i expand. I mean, you have to understand that holding this off on some maps is borderline impossible, you cannot prepare for it effectively. Optimally yes.. effectively no. Or maybe you should have expanded AFTER you had more units? ye, How stupid of me to expand so soon, Terrain is no obstacle for toss and it should never be!
you do realize i could say the exact same thing of the 1-1-1 and ghost pushes on certain maps, right? you realize i can say the same thing about spotting drops on certain maps, right? if the ONLY thing that protoss has that's hard to deal with are stargate allins, then tough shit bro. your non-allin medivac timing is pretty difficult to deal with. bio with stim is difficult to deal with. i've seen pros lose to horrible players because of the 1-1-1. i've watched terrible terrans clean house with decent protosses for months now. and you're saying that stargate play amounts to a free win on certain maps? no, sir, that is ridiculous and you know it. toss has the hardest time expanding and you know it.
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United States6151 Posts
On October 25 2011 06:18 VPCursed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 06:16 VirgilSC2 wrote:On October 25 2011 06:13 VPCursed wrote:On October 25 2011 06:10 Shiori wrote:On October 25 2011 06:08 VPCursed wrote:
i've always felt that the voidray strats with warpin on high ground are a little OP.
On some maps it can be very hard to move between ur main bunkers and nat bunkers, and if he can FF the ramp from low ground you just basically lose. I've even seen pros lose to amateurs doing this, despite the pro preparing for it, im honestly surprised by the backlash. There are still many means for protoss aggression, its not like warp prism all in's haven't been uncommon on the ladder lately. there are plenty of strats that terran can do that are "very hard" to hold off. how is that an argument against them being the game? its not that its hard to hold off, its that i can look at my game and say.. well maybe i should just build 5-6 raxes from now on when i expand. I mean, you have to understand that holding this off on some maps is borderline impossible, you cannot prepare for it effectively. Optimally yes.. effectively no. Or maybe you should have expanded AFTER you had more units? ye, How stupid of me to expand so soon, Terrain is no obstacle for toss and it should never be!
You're effectively saying that a 1 Rax FE shouldn't be punishable by a one base all-in that is easily scouted, especially with that handy thing called a Orbital Command.
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they should fix the warp-in problem in general and the cliff mechanics before they do stupid stuff like this.
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Holy hell this is terrible. I hope blizz will be happy when gsl becomes full terran, 0 toss and maybe 2 zergs.
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I'm guessing it's so you can't build a building on the high ground and then stamp a nexus cannon onto some high-hp building like a forge, right next to a person's base.
The rest of you, shame. Stop kicking your feet and screaming and see how this actually changes things. I honestly don't see this coming into play very often in the tvp that I play, and it's certainly not "Breaking the race" like so many of you are flailing on about.
Seriously, grow up. I wasn't happy about the hellion blue flame nerf either, or the unnecessary reaper nerf (that +1 roach range was all that was needed, and now my favorite unit stinks) but I accepted it in the search for better balance.
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United States6151 Posts
On October 25 2011 06:22 QNdie wrote:
Holy hell this is terrible. I hope blizz will be happy when gsl becomes full terran, 0 toss and maybe 2 zergs.
Yes, because Zerg is in such a terrible state right now.
/sarcasm
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At first I thought this was just some sort of joke or mistake. I'm no one of importance, but I feel that this is a terrible idea. I hope it doesn't make it to the final version.
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Is it just me or could this whole thread be changed to "how to correctly use a warp prism to warp in on the high ground offensively"
Seems like all blizzard is trying to do is encourage drop ship usage for protoss and stop the early probe "lol I am in ur base with the whole army ignoring you meager defences at this early point in the game".
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What a terrible idea...I've had a lot of success expanding early in PvP (yes, expanding) and getting a fast Robo for Observer. Warp up works extremely well when you need to buy yourself time and can easily warp in a few Zealots onto the high ground in an enemies base as they move out, making them either run back to kill off your units or have to warp in units to defend (making their push less effective). I feel that this change would take away a huge part of both the defensive and offensive capabilities of playing Protoss.
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May this put an end to months of Protoss domination.
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On October 25 2011 06:36 ZenithM wrote:
May this put an end to months of Protoss domination.
i love you.......
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well thats silly. maybe they should have made HG warp-ins an upgrade at the cybercore? man it long enough that it will eliminate some cheesy thing but cheap enough (50/50) and still short enough so it dosent hurt some stargate+HG warp-ins. seems like a better solution
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On October 25 2011 06:22 QNdie wrote:
Holy hell this is terrible. I hope blizz will be happy when gsl becomes full terran, 0 toss and maybe 2 zergs.
On October 25 2011 06:36 ZenithM wrote:
May this put an end to months of Protoss domination.
first of all this is a HotS change, there is NO TELLING how all the other additions/changes will leave the balance of the game, so stop being so alarmist.
I'll say it again, the only strats that this causes problems for (remember warp-in still is possible DOWN from cliffs, this is just preventing UP cliffs) is gimmicky builds. If you need to warp in at the top of some cliff so much, get a warp prism. Before that point, it prevents enough cheese and retardation that I'd class it as a good change.
edit:
remember this change is coming in at the same time as the 'make any building a mini-cannon for 20 seconds' ability, along with a mass of others, stop thinking in a vacuum.
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This is a great change. It means Blizzard can finally improve Protoss.
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I'd be fine with this if they restore the ramp vision thing. They only need either or to nerf 4 gate. They're totally overreacting.
Terran's already difficult enough to scout; the vision nerf just made it worse.
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this is great, warpgates already give you an unfair advantage , at least there is one less thing for me to worry about as terran
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EPT
