EPTIn HOTS, low pylons no longer power high ground - Page 24
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Like a Boss
502 Posts
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nakedsurfer
Canada500 Posts
On October 25 2011 05:30 VirgilSC2 wrote: You're saying there should be nothing to punish you for HATCHERY FIRST? Jesus christ, that's like me saying you should need 2 Overlords to make a Spawning Pool so I can Nexus First safely. No he's saying you shouldn't be able to fast expand easy while you can own the shit out of the zerg expansion with cannons so easily with the pylon on the low ground on that map. Your example is retarded because you're comparing a zerg which would be basically all in if they do a 7 pool or something similar vs a FFE whereas your FFE cannon rush isn't all in at all vs a hatch first | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On October 25 2011 05:40 nakedsurfer wrote: No he's saying you shouldn't be able to fast expand easy while you can own the shit out of the zerg expansion with cannons so easily with the pylon on the low ground on that map. Your example is retarded because you're comparing a zerg which would be basically all in if they do a 7 pool or something similar vs a FFE whereas your FFE cannon rush isn't all in at all vs a hatch first you're acting like cannon rushing (which only REALLY works on taldarim in this respect) is some infallible strategy to set the toss ahead. it isn't. | ||
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
On October 25 2011 05:40 nakedsurfer wrote: No he's saying you shouldn't be able to fast expand easy while you can own the shit out of the zerg expansion with cannons so easily with the pylon on the low ground on that map. Your example is retarded because you're comparing a zerg which would be basically all in if they do a 7 pool or something similar vs a FFE whereas your FFE cannon rush isn't all in at all vs a hatch first Considering that at least in Korea, 6 Pool into a Macro Game is basically the standard play against Forge FE, that makes no sense. Also, it's not that hard to stop if you put your Overlord in position like a good Zerg player should. | ||
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Tazerenix
Australia340 Posts
On October 25 2011 05:40 nakedsurfer wrote: No he's saying you shouldn't be able to fast expand easy while you can own the shit out of the zerg expansion with cannons so easily with the pylon on the low ground on that map. Your example is retarded because you're comparing a zerg which would be basically all in if they do a 7 pool or something similar vs a FFE whereas your FFE cannon rush isn't all in at all vs a hatch first Cannon rushes against FFE are the easiest thing ever to stop. Take 2 drones down instead of 1 and get 1 drone to patrol the entrance and BOOM, FREE HATCH FIRST. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11088 Posts
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zJayy962
1363 Posts
On October 25 2011 05:42 VirgilSC2 wrote: Considering that at least in Korea, 6 Pool into a Macro Game is basically the standard play against Forge FE, that makes no sense. Also, it's not that hard to stop if you put your Overlord in position like a good Zerg player should. How can you have a standard vs something that you must do blindly. This is very false. Standard in Korea is either Roach ling pressure or quick 3rd ( read ~4-5 minutes) vs fast expand. | ||
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ComusLoM
Norway3547 Posts
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
On October 25 2011 05:49 zJayy962 wrote: How can you have a standard vs something that you must do blindly. This is very false. Standard in Korea is either Roach ling pressure or quick 3rd ( read ~4-5 minutes) vs fast expand. While it does take into account a fair bit of meta-gaming, player like DongRaeGu tend to 6pool quite often in ZvP, expecting the FFE. | ||
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
On October 24 2011 18:45 MrBitter wrote: Really silly change. Completely eliminates a lot of Protoss strats that involves warping in on the high ground. (void ray builds, some phoenix plays, and obviously early gateway cheese) Why do this? I dunno... Blizzard usually fixes something that has been shown to be a problem or people complain about... This is just to eliminate options for 1 base Protoss I guess... This change doesn't even make sense in the context of the metagame. "Protoss not doing so hot? KK just do a more 'minor' nerf... no, no, no the other two races are OK." | ||
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[uci] Fizik
United States263 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + what the fuck blizzard. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
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Smile[PaiN]
Canada58 Posts
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VPCursed
1044 Posts
On some maps it can be very hard to move between ur main bunkers and nat bunkers, and if he can FF the ramp from low ground you just basically lose. I've even seen pros lose to amateurs doing this, despite the pro preparing for it, im honestly surprised by the backlash. There are still many means for protoss aggression, its not like warp prism all in's haven't been uncommon on the ladder lately. | ||
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
On October 25 2011 06:00 [uci] Fizik wrote: They nerf our pylons, but they dont nerf emp radius... the warpgate mechanic is one of the few strengths of Protoss. I don't understand this nerf, when I try to think about who the hell would complain that protoss having to proxy a pylon, wait 25 seconds for it to warp it while protecting it, then get vision up the ramp, then warp in units, is "Imbalanced" I can only think of 14-16 kids in silver league. How can creep go up and down cliffs but an ethereal energy field not? + Show Spoiler + what the fuck blizzard. Uh, they actually directly discussed EMP and how they were experimenting with reducing its radius in their multiplayer panel. This pylon change didn't get any air time, though. I don't understand how you could blatantly ignore something they straight-up aired on TV to complain "Terran OP, Protoss UP". o_O | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On October 25 2011 06:08 VPCursed wrote: i've always felt that the voidray strats with warpin on high ground are a little OP. On some maps it can be very hard to move between ur main bunkers and nat bunkers, and if he can FF the ramp from low ground you just basically lose. I've even seen pros lose to amateurs doing this, despite the pro preparing for it, im honestly surprised by the backlash. There are still many means for protoss aggression, its not like warp prism all in's haven't been uncommon on the ladder lately. there are plenty of strats that terran can do that are "very hard" to hold off. how is that an argument against them being the game? | ||
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Fairwell
Austria195 Posts
On October 25 2011 01:48 VirgilSC2 wrote: Nope, look at the second image in the OP, it also affects High > Low, not just Low > High. Does this seriously mean that you can't warpin units on the low ground with high ground pylons any more? (for example warpin units on the low ground from a pylon on the edge of my own base, so that now they have to walk all the way around) Apart from that also some high ground warpins make sense, like for dt harass and an obs providing vision so that you don't always need a prism everywhere. | ||
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VPCursed
1044 Posts
On October 25 2011 06:10 Shiori wrote: there are plenty of strats that terran can do that are "very hard" to hold off. how is that an argument against them being the game? its not that its hard to hold off, its that i can look at my game and say.. well maybe i should just build 5-6 raxes from now on when i expand. I mean, you have to understand that holding this off on some maps is borderline impossible, you cannot prepare for it effectively. Optimally yes.. effectively no. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
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