EPTNew HotS Units/Abilities in Blizzcon - Page 358
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
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BraveProbe
36 Posts
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johngalt90
United States357 Posts
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ZorBa.G
Australia279 Posts
On October 24 2011 15:15 Belisarius wrote: No, they don't. They take away plenty of options, arguably too many, but not all. FF you can still drop over, burrow under, and destroy with massives. Fungal you have far fewer options, but your casters can at least cast and your units shoot. Fungal + dark swarm, you cannot cast, shoot, or move. You have no options, zero, except recall for toss. From the instant the two spells go down on the same area, every unit under there is utterly out of your hands and into your opponent's. The attacking force would barely even take losses in some instances. Arguably recall is a fair solution for protoss, but that doesn't help T and it still doesn't change the design ethos inherent in giving those two spells to the one race. I don't need to have done any more than see the abilities when I know that Z already has a damaging root and will now receive an area-localised disable. It's not rocket science to see the problems with that. I don't mean to speculate, but from what we have seen so far. I completely 110% agree with the above post. Anyone who defends the new zerg units must quite literally be on another planet. If these units go through the beta, 1 of two things will happen; 1. Everyone will just switch races to zerg. 2. Those who do not wish to play zerg will ultimately just quit the game. Like yeh, losing is fine and all, but you do actually need to have somewhat of a chance to win. Fungal Growth is enough let alone dark swarm. I've expessed my opinion a fair bit on these forums about the expansion and to be quiet honest, so far it looks as though it will be almost impossible to win against zerg late game (unless they are a baddie). I mean c'mon, just look at this crap; 1. Drakswarm 2. A grapple hook ability 3. Burrowed banelings can now move 4. Charging ultralisk 5. yet another siege unit, zerg now has two siege units... one being a ground the the other being air What I want to know is how the hell is Terran meant to deal with sniping the viper when he has bloody mutas flying everywhere? You get anyting even remotely close to that thing he will either; 1. cast the cloud on him, rendering the unit/s useless so his muta ball can just clean it up 2. if you have any thors, he will just grapple that thing and zerg will just magic box snipe it It's just pathetic really, not only can zerg mass up the quickest, tansition more smoothly then other races.... but now he is given all these extra abilites! Be prepared to see GSL Code S Zerg only. | ||
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Twinmold
Sweden238 Posts
On October 24 2011 15:48 seupac wrote: based on how protoss hots changes look it seems like we will spend the majority of the beta using other races units The replicant still has plenty of uses outside of just copying enemy units (if you want to tech switch for example) to the extent that I'm thinking that part of the ability will be very situational and far from the norm (or even just get removed) | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
On October 24 2011 16:25 ZorBa.G wrote: I don't mean to speculate, but from what we have seen so far. I completely 110% agree with the above post. Anyone who defends the new zerg units must quite literally be on another planet. If these units go through the beta, 1 of two things will happen; 1. Everyone will just switch races to zerg. 2. Those who do not wish to play zerg will ultimately just quit the game. Like yeh, losing is fine and all, but you do actually need to have somewhat of a chance to win. Fungal Growth is enough let alone dark swarm. I've expessed my opinion a fair bit on these forums about the expansion and to be quiet honest, so far it looks as though it will be almost impossible to win against zerg late game (unless they are a baddie). I mean c'mon, just look at this crap; 1. Drakswarm 2. A grapple hook ability 3. Burrowed banelings can now move 4. Charging ultralisk 5. yet another siege unit, zerg now has two siege units... one being a ground the the other being air What I want to know is how the hell is Terran meant to deal with sniping the viper when he has bloody mutas flying everywhere? You get anyting even remotely close to that thing he will either; 1. cast the cloud on him, rendering the unit/s useless so his muta ball can just clean it up 2. if you have any thors, he will just grapple that thing and zerg will just magic box snipe it It's just pathetic really, not only can zerg mass up the quickest, tansition more smoothly then other races.... but now he is given all these extra abilites! Be prepared to see GSL Code S Zerg only. If you manage to get thors I'll be really impressed. | ||
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BraveProbe
36 Posts
On October 24 2011 16:25 ZorBa.G wrote: I don't mean to speculate, but from what we have seen so far. I completely 110% agree with the above post. Anyone who defends the new zerg units must quite literally be on another planet. If these units go through the beta, 1 of two things will happen; 1. Everyone will just switch races to zerg. 2. Those who do not wish to play zerg will ultimately just quit the game. Like yeh, losing is fine and all, but you do actually need to have somewhat of a chance to win. Fungal Growth is enough let alone dark swarm. I've expessed my opinion a fair bit on these forums about the expansion and to be quiet honest, so far it looks as though it will be almost impossible to win against zerg late game (unless they are a baddie). I mean c'mon, just look at this crap; 1. Drakswarm 2. A grapple hook ability 3. Burrowed banelings can now move 4. Charging ultralisk 5. yet another siege unit, zerg now has two siege units... one being a ground the the other being air What I want to know is how the hell is Terran meant to deal with sniping the viper when he has bloody mutas flying everywhere? You get anyting even remotely close to that thing he will either; 1. cast the cloud on him, rendering the unit/s useless so his muta ball can just clean it up 2. if you have any thors, he will just grapple that thing and zerg will just magic box snipe it It's just pathetic really, not only can zerg mass up the quickest, tansition more smoothly then other races.... but now he is given all these extra abilites! Be prepared to see GSL Code S Zerg only. I'd wait for testing first, and not underestimating innovations in metagame. | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On October 24 2011 16:25 ZorBa.G wrote: I don't mean to speculate, but from what we have seen so far. I completely 110% agree with the above post. Anyone who defends the new zerg units must quite literally be on another planet. If these units go through the beta, 1 of two things will happen; 1. Everyone will just switch races to zerg. 2. Those who do not wish to play zerg will ultimately just quit the game. Like yeh, losing is fine and all, but you do actually need to have somewhat of a chance to win. Fungal Growth is enough let alone dark swarm. I've expessed my opinion a fair bit on these forums about the expansion and to be quiet honest, so far it looks as though it will be almost impossible to win against zerg late game (unless they are a baddie). I mean c'mon, just look at this crap; 1. Drakswarm 2. A grapple hook ability 3. Burrowed banelings can now move 4. Charging ultralisk 5. yet another siege unit, zerg now has two siege units... one being a ground the the other being air What I want to know is how the hell is Terran meant to deal with sniping the viper when he has bloody mutas flying everywhere? You get anyting even remotely close to that thing he will either; 1. cast the cloud on him, rendering the unit/s useless so his muta ball can just clean it up 2. if you have any thors, he will just grapple that thing and zerg will just magic box snipe it It's just pathetic really, not only can zerg mass up the quickest, tansition more smoothly then other races.... but now he is given all these extra abilites! Be prepared to see GSL Code S Zerg only. Thors? The fact that you stated that in the plural shows that you're analyzing how WoL Terran would fare against HotS Zerg. You need to think in terms of what the HotS Terran can do. Warhounds. They will kill Mutalisks like nobody's business. At the very least, they can carve out an area where Mutalisks cannot enter. Vikings still have pretty potent AtA attacks. And it's not like Vipers are high Hp or something. It wouldn't take many to snipe them, particularly with Warhounds providing cover from Mutas. Also, let's not forget that Ghosts can EMP well outside the casting range of the cloud. Vipers have to come to them, not the other way around. Furthermore, units under a Fungal+Disruption Web (why do people insist on calling it "dark swarm" when mechanically it works far more like D-Web?) are incapacitated... for four seconds. Then the Fungal wears off and they can move again. Also, they're not entirely incapacitated; they have their range reduced to melee. They can still attack, just not very far away. So they can still fight back, but at reduced effectiveness. Especially since Melee Zerg has been buffed far more than Ranged Zerg (and doing Fungal+D-Web costs a hell of a lot of gas. You're not going Roach/Hydra/Viper/Infestor). | ||
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ToastieNL
Netherlands845 Posts
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
Awesome... | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On October 24 2011 16:21 johngalt90 wrote: i think its too hard to say what will be good and what wont but on paper dark swarm 2.0 and fungal growth seem a little too powerful together. I've thought about that as well, but it might not be that bad after all. ZvT: Fungal is pretty much the marine-killer and 2 fungals wipe out a whole batch of them, but often we just see fungal being used to snipe bunched up units, without subsequently engaging them. Why would you run in zerglings/banelings to kill units that would be dead with 1 more fungal anyways? Then, the new swarm will most likely target other units besides marines/marauders, like tanks, that don't get sniped by fungals and are the main reason why stuff like banelings die before reaching the marines. But there is also the grab-spell that could kill off tanks. So, while marines could walk out of the cloud very fast, you could pin them down with fungals, which would kill them anyways, so its better to cast the cloud on tanks, which will mean that 1 rather expensive spell will deny 1 tank shooting if the terrans spreads his stuff out a bit, so it would be better to use the grab-spell almost everytime. Also, Viper AND Infestor can be very gas-intensive and makes the ghost even better against such a composition. I really think, that those spells don't have the greatest synergies against Terran, they rather offer different ways to combat a terran deathball, that don't necessarily get better when you stack them up all at once, if you get what I mean. I really think the viper will be used more to complement runbys into fortified positions, like small groups of Speedlings+Defilers did in BW. It's a spell that is much less useful on open areas, just because you need to hinder enemy movement, but using fungal to do that against marines has a certain redundancy to it. ZvP: Here it is pretty different of course; against a common death-ball, Fungal+Cloud would be very useful, but Blizzard tried to make the deathball less necessary for Protoss to win and you always have the possibility to warp-out of a fight where the zerg just spent all his energy on spells. Yet again, there is a big redundancy with grab and cloud and fungal: Against Collossi,based armies, I think grab would be better: pick off single units rather quick and safely instead of engaging the deathball at once. Also, Speedlings for example, are good at absorbing stalker-hits, so using fungal on them will make the speedlings able to close in very fast without taking major losses (compared to halve the speedlings being killed by stimmed marines when they try and close in for example), so theres really no need to use the cloud in this scenario as well. ZvZ: Could have the biggest synergy in this MU, cuz fungal+cloud in Roach VS-roach battles could be HUGE, cuz there is not much redundancy in using both cloud and fungal on roaches and grab isn't as good as well, cuz the grabbed unit would most likely be the infestor or the viper of the opposing zerg, which could then just fire off his spells anyways. | ||
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Bactrian
Australia176 Posts
On October 24 2011 16:25 ZorBa.G wrote: I don't mean to speculate, but from what we have seen so far. I completely 110% agree with the above post. Anyone who defends the new zerg units must quite literally be on another planet. If these units go through the beta, 1 of two things will happen; 1. Everyone will just switch races to zerg. 2. Those who do not wish to play zerg will ultimately just quit the game. Like yeh, losing is fine and all, but you do actually need to have somewhat of a chance to win. Fungal Growth is enough let alone dark swarm. I've expessed my opinion a fair bit on these forums about the expansion and to be quiet honest, so far it looks as though it will be almost impossible to win against zerg late game (unless they are a baddie). I mean c'mon, just look at this crap; 1. Drakswarm 2. A grapple hook ability 3. Burrowed banelings can now move 4. Charging ultralisk 5. yet another siege unit, zerg now has two siege units... one being a ground the the other being air What I want to know is how the hell is Terran meant to deal with sniping the viper when he has bloody mutas flying everywhere? You get anyting even remotely close to that thing he will either; 1. cast the cloud on him, rendering the unit/s useless so his muta ball can just clean it up 2. if you have any thors, he will just grapple that thing and zerg will just magic box snipe it It's just pathetic really, not only can zerg mass up the quickest, tansition more smoothly then other races.... but now he is given all these extra abilites! Be prepared to see GSL Code S Zerg only. So did you miss the bit where Warhound has the thor's air splash except cheaper or...? | ||
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ZorBa.G
Australia279 Posts
On October 24 2011 16:30 BraveProbe wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYtfBDJXq0Q I'd wait for testing first, and not underestimating innovations in metagame. Nice video, looks like Blizzard agreed with Idra who thinks every other race is imba then his own. Now Zerg has the ability to completely 100% disable Terran and Toss armies. I ok, with the whole testing thing, but it all seems pretty straight forward to me with what Blizzard has proposed to the SC2 community. Zerg win rates will go from 48% to 90% overnight. lol. I have to admit though, I will psml seeing a 30 minutes macro game play out to inevitably see a zerg dark swarm + fungal growth a whole army to shreds in a matter of seconds.... gg.... and don't forget to a move those borrowed banes  | ||
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Ketch
Netherlands7285 Posts
Edit: Also I think Hots will have an insane increase in options of strategies, which with the still (?) bad scouting might not like . | ||
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MonkSEA
Australia1227 Posts
Personally it doesn't trigger it in me, but I know I have trypophobia.. Is anyone else trypophobic and the swarm host actually triggers it? | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10986 Posts
So... After thinking for quite some time about the new units/changes: Terrible, Ugly, Stupid, Idiotic. Seriously, I don't "like" a single one of them. The Terran units are basically SC/BW units (which actually is kinda ok, but I don't see why they weren't allready in wol). Oh, the shredder is totally and utterly retarded, it's not like a PF allready shut down "harass"... The Protoss untis are... Just fire the Protoss devs (the Harassing one is actually ok) and never let them touch a game again. The Zerg units are... You know this 2 cool units in SC/BW? The Lurker and the Defiler? They were strong and cool... Now they put in these 2 units again, just worse/different. Burrow-Move Banelings sound ridiculous... Ultras should just be smaller, not need charge -.-. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On October 24 2011 17:02 MonkSEA wrote: What I'm afraid of is the Swarm Host.. A reddit poster had a good analysis of it.. triggering trypophobia. If you don't know what it means, it basically means a fear of a decent amount of any sized, usually small, holes on a surface. Personally it doesn't trigger it in me, but I know I have trypophobia.. Is anyone else trypophobic and the swarm host actually triggers it? I heard Shia LaBeouf has this. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On October 24 2011 16:25 ZorBa.G wrote: Be prepared to see GSL Code S Zerg only. Seriously? Stop worrying about Theoretical Code Zerg, we have plenty of problems with Actual Code Terran. Also, Terrans still have EMPs. And those things, being Zerg and therefore biological, are snipeable. | ||
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
Also - and this is perhaps a little ungrateful - it's a bit disappointing that Zerg still doesn't get a proper 'attack from cloak' unit, something with the potential to be scary in small numbers if the tech is rushed out. It would be awesome if Locusts burrow-moved and only erupted to attack. | ||
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shihido
Singapore29 Posts
Can you guess the implication of replicating a harvester unit then being able to make all and any of the opponent race's structures and hence units? Also, it can just replicate your end games units and still have all the upgrades. whut whut whut... An ultralisk turned against zerg in a PvZ with the burrowed attack would be really crazy. Especially since the replicator is 200minerals, 200 gas. Much cheaper. | ||
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