On October 22 2011 18:45 Cain0 wrote: Ive just realised how retarded the swarm host is. JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING LURKER YOU IDIOTS. Spawns 2 slow melee units every 15 seconds, are you for real??? How are they gonna get in range, do you even think when you make these things FFS.
Can anyone explains how it actually works? I'm having a hard time seeing how it's useful... unless the locusts are immune to splash damage they'll just be siege-tank fodder.
If it only spawns 2 units every 15 seconds that deals 16 damage, it's way, way worse than the brood lord, or am I missing something?
Its just retarded seriously, everyone thinks its the lurker but it isnt.
it was never meant to be a lurker and i wish ppl would get off the lurker whine quite honestly.
Well its pretty much the Lurker in a different fashion. The lurker basically is siegelike spacecontrol unit and imho the swarmhost is supposed to be fitting that role. Not sure if it does in its current state, but i think you can see the direction in which the unit is heading imho. Its definitely not wrong to compare it to the lurker.
No....
This unit is terribad in many ways. First it overlaps with broodlord, making it a burrowed broodlord but WAY worse. Second it spawn SLOW MOVING MELEE units called Locusts (?) every 25sec, no aoe dmg, nothing. By the time these things will catch up to terran or protoss army they will be DEAD and at the same time we have 10 of these thing sitting worthlessly burrowed for 20 sec doing nothing and waiting for their death. If these thing are for real then I don't know what to say and if they are for taking some dmg before main army will jump on then infestors are a way better solution with infested terrans, seriously. If their role is to break siege lines of terrans then we saw on vid how it manages to take barely one bunker at a time in big numbers... just stim marines/marauders, run past these lacusts and destroy every swarm host in seconds without taking dmg. On their own they are bad, as a support they are bad or way worse then other units - serious question, whats a use of it? Third, forcefields completely neutralise an attack of these units, put some of them in front of swarm host and you can safely take them away one by one.
Lurkers in comparison to swarm hosts are BEASTS, they do aoe dmg in straight line, they can wreck mineral lines in seconds, they dont care if there is forcefield or not, and they can be really nasty in choke points on maps. Lurkers are what zerg just needs, it doesn't overlap with anything, just whole new unit based on nothing in current game.
On October 22 2011 21:22 ladyumbra wrote: Hmm how fast can you go dt + robo tech? If you can use the oracle's ability to stun spore crawlers ( I assume this negates their detect ability as well) and get DT's out fast enough DT expanding might be more viable again vs zerg. All depends on the timing though as I've seen a lot of zerg getting like 8 minute lairs lately and having detection via overseers so fast. If that kept up in Hots they could easily have vipers out by then.
Almost certain the oracle comes out of the stargate and requires a fleet beacon, so the timing is very likely not viable.
Doesn't require a fleet beacon according to the screenshots.
On October 22 2011 21:22 ladyumbra wrote: Hmm how fast can you go dt + robo tech? If you can use the oracle's ability to stun spore crawlers ( I assume this negates their detect ability as well) and get DT's out fast enough DT expanding might be more viable again vs zerg. All depends on the timing though as I've seen a lot of zerg getting like 8 minute lairs lately and having detection via overseers so fast. If that kept up in Hots they could easily have vipers out by then.
Almost certain the oracle comes out of the stargate and requires a fleet beacon, so the timing is very likely not viable.
Hey wait, they shouldn't require a fleet beacon, they aren't good enough for that! Plus, they are harass units and a detector, they need to come out pretty early to, you know, not be a complete waste of space.
I mostly like the Zerg changes, Protoss is a bit of both ( why remove the carrier for a bigger phoenix :/ ) but I really dislike the Terran ones. The only Terran change I really like right now is the speed ability for BC's
However...burrowed Banelings moving? Now I'm really against this, I mean a small number of burrowed banelings could rip apart a ball of marines if used correctly. Letting them move underground is just ridiculous.
On October 22 2011 21:22 ladyumbra wrote: Hmm how fast can you go dt + robo tech? If you can use the oracle's ability to stun spore crawlers ( I assume this negates their detect ability as well) and get DT's out fast enough DT expanding might be more viable again vs zerg. All depends on the timing though as I've seen a lot of zerg getting like 8 minute lairs lately and having detection via overseers so fast. If that kept up in Hots they could easily have vipers out by then.
Almost certain the oracle comes out of the stargate and requires a fleet beacon, so the timing is very likely not viable.
Doesn't require a fleet beacon according to the screenshots.
I think hes meaning the tempest, since the tempest is a capital ship... oracle just requires stargate i think
On October 22 2011 21:22 ladyumbra wrote: Hmm how fast can you go dt + robo tech? If you can use the oracle's ability to stun spore crawlers ( I assume this negates their detect ability as well) and get DT's out fast enough DT expanding might be more viable again vs zerg. All depends on the timing though as I've seen a lot of zerg getting like 8 minute lairs lately and having detection via overseers so fast. If that kept up in Hots they could easily have vipers out by then.
Almost certain the oracle comes out of the stargate and requires a fleet beacon, so the timing is very likely not viable.
Hey wait, they shouldn't require a fleet beacon, they aren't good enough for that! Plus, they are harass units and a detector, they need to come out pretty early to, you know, not be a complete waste of space.
Hm you might be right, I can't actually find a screenshot where it shows the tooltip.
On October 22 2011 18:45 Cain0 wrote: Ive just realised how retarded the swarm host is. JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING LURKER YOU IDIOTS. Spawns 2 slow melee units every 15 seconds, are you for real??? How are they gonna get in range, do you even think when you make these things FFS.
Can anyone explains how it actually works? I'm having a hard time seeing how it's useful... unless the locusts are immune to splash damage they'll just be siege-tank fodder.
If it only spawns 2 units every 15 seconds that deals 16 damage, it's way, way worse than the brood lord, or am I missing something?
Its just retarded seriously, everyone thinks its the lurker but it isnt.
it was never meant to be a lurker and i wish ppl would get off the lurker whine quite honestly.
Well its pretty much the Lurker in a different fashion. The lurker basically is siegelike spacecontrol unit and imho the swarmhost is supposed to be fitting that role. Not sure if it does in its current state, but i think you can see the direction in which the unit is heading imho. Its definitely not wrong to compare it to the lurker.
No....
This unit is terribad in many ways. First it overlaps with broodlord, making it a burrowed broodlord but WAY worse. Second it spawn SLOW MOVING MELEE units called Locusts (?) every 25sec, no aoe dmg, nothing. By the time these things will catch up to terran or protoss army they will be DEAD and at the same time we have 10 of these thing sitting worthlessly burrowed for 20 sec doing nothing and waiting for their death. If these thing are for real then I don't know what to say and if they are for taking some dmg before main army will jump on then infestors are a way better solution with infested terrans, seriously. If their role is to break siege lines of terrans then we saw on vid how it manages to take barely one bunker at a time in big numbers... just stim marines/marauders, run past these lacusts and destroy every swarm host in seconds without taking dmg. On their own they are bad, as a support they are bad or way worse then other units - serious question, whats a use of it? Third, forcefields completely neutralise an attack of these units, put some of them in front of swarm host and you can safely take them away one by one.
Lurkers in comparison to swarm hosts are BEASTS, they do aoe dmg in straight line, they can wreck mineral lines in seconds, they dont care if there is forcefield or not, and they can be really nasty in choke points on maps. Lurkers are what zerg just needs, it doesn't overlap with anything, just whole new unit based on nothing in current game.
I would agree.. This unit without good support will be completelly useless. They should either make Locust spawn every few seconds of make them invincible until they reach enemy, because most of them will die before reaching enemy.
I don't care about balance (there is a beta and probably a dozen release patches for that). All I want is for that qtpie Nova to not die. Noooo, fu Kerrigan!
On October 22 2011 18:45 Cain0 wrote: Ive just realised how retarded the swarm host is. JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING LURKER YOU IDIOTS. Spawns 2 slow melee units every 15 seconds, are you for real??? How are they gonna get in range, do you even think when you make these things FFS.
Can anyone explains how it actually works? I'm having a hard time seeing how it's useful... unless the locusts are immune to splash damage they'll just be siege-tank fodder.
If it only spawns 2 units every 15 seconds that deals 16 damage, it's way, way worse than the brood lord, or am I missing something?
Its just retarded seriously, everyone thinks its the lurker but it isnt.
it was never meant to be a lurker and i wish ppl would get off the lurker whine quite honestly.
Well its pretty much the Lurker in a different fashion. The lurker basically is siegelike spacecontrol unit and imho the swarmhost is supposed to be fitting that role. Not sure if it does in its current state, but i think you can see the direction in which the unit is heading imho. Its definitely not wrong to compare it to the lurker.
No....
This unit is terribad in many ways. First it overlaps with broodlord, making it a burrowed broodlord but WAY worse. Second it spawn SLOW MOVING MELEE units called Locusts (?) every 25sec, no aoe dmg, nothing. By the time these things will catch up to terran or protoss army they will be DEAD and at the same time we have 10 of these thing sitting worthlessly burrowed for 20 sec doing nothing and waiting for their death. If these thing are for real then I don't know what to say and if they are for taking some dmg before main army will jump on then infestors are a way better solution with infested terrans, seriously. If their role is to break siege lines of terrans then we saw on vid how it manages to take barely one bunker at a time in big numbers... just stim marines/marauders, run past these lacusts and destroy every swarm host in seconds without taking dmg. On their own they are bad, as a support they are bad or way worse then other units - serious question, whats a use of it? Third, forcefields completely neutralise an attack of these units, put some of them in front of swarm host and you can safely take them away one by one.
Lurkers in comparison to swarm hosts are BEASTS, they do aoe dmg in straight line, they can wreck mineral lines in seconds, they dont care if there is forcefield or not, and they can be really nasty in choke points on maps. Lurkers are what zerg just needs, it doesn't overlap with anything, just whole new unit based on nothing in current game.
They have a ramp up time, it said in the preview that it takes a few spawns before the Swarm Host starts producing at a fast pace.
Most likely it will overwhelm players who take too long to break the defensive line and in the same way, reward Zergs who are good enough to delay your opponents enough to the point where the Swarm Hosts force a retreat.
Lurkers were more like Siege Tanks I agree, but Zerg in SC2 would be stupidly strong with such a unit.
On October 22 2011 21:22 ladyumbra wrote: Hmm how fast can you go dt + robo tech? If you can use the oracle's ability to stun spore crawlers ( I assume this negates their detect ability as well) and get DT's out fast enough DT expanding might be more viable again vs zerg. All depends on the timing though as I've seen a lot of zerg getting like 8 minute lairs lately and having detection via overseers so fast. If that kept up in Hots they could easily have vipers out by then.
Almost certain the oracle comes out of the stargate and requires a fleet beacon, so the timing is very likely not viable.
Doesn't require a fleet beacon according to the screenshots.
I think hes meaning the tempest, since the tempest is a capital ship... oracle just requires stargate i think
Yeah tempest needs fleet beacon but so far was we know oracle does not, ended up crossing out my question anyways since it's still probably not super viable.
I seriously dislike the Protoss changes...I mean, I love having a Scroll of Town Portal again, but that's literally it. Mothership removed, Carrier removed. Come on...could you not even have a go at fixing carriers? I didn't play BW much, but they were so good the few times I ever used them on ICCup. The cloning unit just seems...well, pointless, and we've been given nothing that addresses the relative weakness of gateway armies and gives us a viable, strong harrass unit like either the Zergling, Roach, Marine or Marauder for drops or counter attacks.
On October 22 2011 21:07 MiLesRP wrote: watch how fast they are while burrowed, lol
That's straight nightmare fuel. O_o
I don't see why they'd do this. Baneling mines weren't even used enough. These are going to be ridiculously strong. How much detection are we going to need o.O
There was a time in DoW2 where the Tyranids could insta tunnel into your army and exploding multiple Spore Mines right in ya face.....It was so fucking broken even when you knew that this would happen and spread your army asap....
On October 22 2011 21:38 Rohan wrote: I seriously dislike the Protoss changes...I mean, I love having a Scroll of Town Portal again, but that's literally it. Mothership removed, Carrier removed. Come on...could you not even have a go at fixing carriers? I didn't play BW much, but they were so good the few times I ever used them on ICCup. The cloning unit just seems...well, pointless, and we've been given nothing that addresses the relative weakness of gateway armies and gives us a viable, strong harrass unit like either the Zergling, Roach, Marine or Marauder for drops or counter attacks.
Sigh :<
How would they rebalance the Carrier? I don't think it can actually be done in SC2.
Carriers can't exactly "cliff" vikings like they did to Goliath in Broodwar, and the larva system means that as long as the Zerg has a pool of larva, he will never truly ever get surprised by the Carrier. But the problem is, in some situations the Carrier can be stupidly strong. The unit just doesn't fit into SC2 like it did with BW
I really dislike their idea behind the Terran changes. They felt Terran had to kite vs zealots and want to remove that, feels like they really dumb down the game to just a-move with that attitude.
On October 22 2011 21:42 Paladia wrote: I really dislike their idea behind the Terran changes. They felt Terran had to kite vs zealots and want to remove that, feels like they really dumb down the game to just a-move with that attitude.
The replicant is just the unit Protoss needed, Only Ghosts can counter Ghosts and Only Mules can counter Mules, best part is if the game goes long enough i can replace my shitty gateway army with Rax <3 u blizzard.
On October 22 2011 18:45 Cain0 wrote: Ive just realised how retarded the swarm host is. JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING LURKER YOU IDIOTS. Spawns 2 slow melee units every 15 seconds, are you for real??? How are they gonna get in range, do you even think when you make these things FFS.
Can anyone explains how it actually works? I'm having a hard time seeing how it's useful... unless the locusts are immune to splash damage they'll just be siege-tank fodder.
If it only spawns 2 units every 15 seconds that deals 16 damage, it's way, way worse than the brood lord, or am I missing something?
Its just retarded seriously, everyone thinks its the lurker but it isnt.
it was never meant to be a lurker and i wish ppl would get off the lurker whine quite honestly.
Well its pretty much the Lurker in a different fashion. The lurker basically is siegelike spacecontrol unit and imho the swarmhost is supposed to be fitting that role. Not sure if it does in its current state, but i think you can see the direction in which the unit is heading imho. Its definitely not wrong to compare it to the lurker.
No....
This unit is terribad in many ways. First it overlaps with broodlord, making it a burrowed broodlord but WAY worse. Second it spawn SLOW MOVING MELEE units called Locusts (?) every 25sec, no aoe dmg, nothing. By the time these things will catch up to terran or protoss army they will be DEAD and at the same time we have 10 of these thing sitting worthlessly burrowed for 20 sec doing nothing and waiting for their death. If these thing are for real then I don't know what to say and if they are for taking some dmg before main army will jump on then infestors are a way better solution with infested terrans, seriously. If their role is to break siege lines of terrans then we saw on vid how it manages to take barely one bunker at a time in big numbers... just stim marines/marauders, run past these lacusts and destroy every swarm host in seconds without taking dmg. On their own they are bad, as a support they are bad or way worse then other units - serious question, whats a use of it? Third, forcefields completely neutralise an attack of these units, put some of them in front of swarm host and you can safely take them away one by one.
Lurkers in comparison to swarm hosts are BEASTS, they do aoe dmg in straight line, they can wreck mineral lines in seconds, they dont care if there is forcefield or not, and they can be really nasty in choke points on maps. Lurkers are what zerg just needs, it doesn't overlap with anything, just whole new unit based on nothing in current game.
They have a ramp up time, it said in the preview that it takes a few spawns before the Swarm Host starts producing at a fast pace.
Most likely it will overwhelm players who take too long to break the defensive line and in the same way, reward Zergs who are good enough to delay your opponents enough to the point where the Swarm Hosts force a retreat.
Lurkers were more like Siege Tanks I agree, but Zerg in SC2 would be stupidly strong with such a unit.
that ramp up time seems to be the 15 seconds i am hearing from most ppl. if once every15 seconds is the fastest it can spawn units then that is still pretty slow and bad.
I think the only people who are disappointed by the Swarm Host are only the people who expected them to be as self sufficient as a Seige Tank.
Swarm Hosts aren't as self suffient, but in combination with the rest of the Zerg army they can be just as strong if not stronger.
Think PvZ, how would Protoss break a Swarm Host contain, Colossus right? Well think again, with the new Viper if the Protoss ever so much as thinks about prodding that Swarm host with his Colossus then he is going to lose them instantly.
And Colossus really the only long range unit Protoss has, if they are unable to poke at the Swarm hosts without getting stolen and killed instantly then the only option Protoss has is to either make a full on attack into Zerg in their defensive position with Swarm Hosts or fall back/move around.
Also, Swarm hosts effectively just spawn free Cannon fodder. Although the locus might get eaten up quickly, imagine having a group of Hydra/Roach supporting each wave. You would engage with each wave of Locus and then back out when they die, taking very little damage to your main army.
A single wave might not make that big of a difference, but after 4-5 waves of constant back and forth you could get into a position where the Protoss has been force to waste so many FF's that he can no longer defend the main army, getting completely over run
EPT
