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On October 19 2011 21:50 Alejandro wrote:
Why is everyone talking about removing a unit from the game?
Did anyone from Blizzard hinted that some units might be gone for the new ones to appear? Or is it just guessing?
Not trying to troll, it´s a serious question.
They have said they will remove/replace some units. They have also said they "don't like" some units, like the corruptor.
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On October 19 2011 22:08 tnud wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 21:50 Alejandro wrote:
Why is everyone talking about removing a unit from the game?
Did anyone from Blizzard hinted that some units might be gone for the new ones to appear? Or is it just guessing?
Not trying to troll, it´s a serious question.
They have said they will remove/replace some units. They have also said they "don't like" some units, like the corruptor.
oh wow, i hope they swap the corruptor for scourge 
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On October 19 2011 22:08 tnud wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 21:50 Alejandro wrote:
Why is everyone talking about removing a unit from the game?
Did anyone from Blizzard hinted that some units might be gone for the new ones to appear? Or is it just guessing?
Not trying to troll, it´s a serious question.
They have said they will remove/replace some units. They have also said they "don't like" some units, like the corruptor.
I also think the Colossus is pretty high up on the "do not like" list. It's a complete mismatch of a unit for Starcraft. Every other ranged aoe unit in the all of SC history has been difficult to use and control with a decent amount of risk/reward attached to it or it was a melee unit. Think of the Lurker, Siege Tank, Reaver, all of these required good placement and micro and positioning and forethought into actually using. All of the SC2 aoe units follow this same pattern except for the Colossus which is just a A-Move unit with very minimal micro, it's kinda stupid.
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On October 19 2011 22:18 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 22:08 tnud wrote:On October 19 2011 21:50 Alejandro wrote:
Why is everyone talking about removing a unit from the game?
Did anyone from Blizzard hinted that some units might be gone for the new ones to appear? Or is it just guessing?
Not trying to troll, it´s a serious question.
They have said they will remove/replace some units. They have also said they "don't like" some units, like the corruptor. I also think the Colossus is pretty high up on the "do not like" list. It's a complete mismatch of a unit for Starcraft. Every other ranged aoe unit in the all of SC history has been difficult to use and control with a decent amount of risk/reward attached to it or it was a melee unit. Think of the Lurker, Siege Tank, Reaver, all of these required good placement and micro and positioning and forethought into actually using, the Colossus is just A-Move unit with very minimal micro, it's kinda stupid.
Yeah agreed. An added problem is that the Collosus gets countered by the exact same unit Carriers are weak against (Vikings and Corruptors). I really hope that the robo end unit gets replaced by something cooler.
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On October 19 2011 22:07 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 21:52 chambertin wrote:On October 19 2011 21:50 BarbieHsu wrote:
A fathership? lol. Personally I'm really hoping for the flying shield battery, I think it would make for some interesting gameplay challenges and also allow for some sort of buffed ground defense without requiring gas heavy sentries or statics like the photocannons. I don't think that the game's balance could handle a race getting something like that, that buffs an entire army (plus sentry guardian shield is a bit like this already). I think it's more likely to be a unit that stands on it's own.
If Blizzard is smart they will definitely add some sort of shield battery. Right now protoss can defend themselves on one base with FF, but one of the biggest flaws in protoss design is that they can't defend open areas, like some of the very wide naturals. A shield battery would not only make that more possible, but also open up a whole new dimension to protoss play. Tosses would actually be able to make some units to defend instead of always cannons in PvZ. There would be more Gateway openings to choose from, since I expect the shield battery to be unlocked by the gateway (as spines are unlocked by pool and bunkers unlocked by barracks). Protoss is just missing a building in this position on their tree atm.
Now whether the shield battery flies or is a building is what we will find out at Blizzcon. I would prefer a nonflying one since then it probably would not cost a ton of gas and no one would be able to say it's OP.
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David Kim:
As far as learning through the multiplayer, we learned that not everything works exactly as planned - the different roles for the units didn't work as well as we had planned. We planned to have the immortal be more of a meat shield, and have the hardened shield be one of the core mechanics; however, the burst damage ended up being the more important part of the unit.
Q: You guys said that you wanted to keep the unit pool small in a lot of interviews, how many units would you expect to add in the multiplayer, and how many would you expect to remove in order to keep the player experience good?
A: We have no idea how many we can add before it starts to feel watered down, we're starting to push Brood War unit numbers, every time we try to make a move we find that it's tough to keep the units and race abilities separate. We can easily add on, and tune and tweak, or in combination until we find the right mix for multiplayer.
For example, the Overseer is not a cool unit, it's basically a glorfied scout at this point. We're looking at either taking out or replacing these units that aren't as cool. The other thing that we need to watch out is how these units interact in combination.
We're starting to reach the number of units where the right answer isn't necessarily more; it doesn't mean that we can't get more, but how will we even know?
Those are the relevant quotes from http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=228212
I do believe I've heard they don't like the corruptor still. Must have been somewhere else..
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Would be nice to get rid of corruptors so that Mutas can morph to broodlords.
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My speculations are, this unit might be an air unit that having the ability to "catch" enemy air unit with both claw, disabling the attack and movement ability.
While the enemy unit captured, this unit will attack it with the electric charge. We can command the capturing unit to move away from battle field in order to isolating the captured unit.
Just imagine a giant probe with claw, only this one does not taking mineral. But taking enemy unit and zap it till death.
May be :D
This unit also remind me of this unit from one of my fave Anime:
![[image loading]](http://www.vandreadbrasil.xpg.com.br/images/dread_jura.JPG)
![[image loading]](http://a2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/150/f87fca24143d4cf5a6ee04bd299ed6d8/l.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/3695/233246-vandread3_icon.jpg)
It got the same ability like Sentry's Guardian Shield (the different is, this unit can shielding a planet)
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On October 19 2011 22:21 Fragile51 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 22:18 BeeNu wrote:On October 19 2011 22:08 tnud wrote:On October 19 2011 21:50 Alejandro wrote:
Why is everyone talking about removing a unit from the game?
Did anyone from Blizzard hinted that some units might be gone for the new ones to appear? Or is it just guessing?
Not trying to troll, it´s a serious question.
They have said they will remove/replace some units. They have also said they "don't like" some units, like the corruptor. I also think the Colossus is pretty high up on the "do not like" list. It's a complete mismatch of a unit for Starcraft. Every other ranged aoe unit in the all of SC history has been difficult to use and control with a decent amount of risk/reward attached to it or it was a melee unit. Think of the Lurker, Siege Tank, Reaver, all of these required good placement and micro and positioning and forethought into actually using, the Colossus is just A-Move unit with very minimal micro, it's kinda stupid. Yeah agreed. An added problem is that the Collosus gets countered by the exact same unit Carriers are weak against (Vikings and Corruptors). I really hope that the robo end unit gets replaced by something cooler.
Yep the colossus is a boring unit that promotes boring gameplay. Blizzard made it an easy unit to use, with a very low skill ceiling so pros can't show their stuff, and gave it very obvious and easy counters (vikings, corruptors). It's a unit that dumbs down the game. The fact that it's design also causes it to overlap with all protoss air units is just horrible.
Think about this. Out of the Robo facility, 3 of the 4 units available can be hit by anti air. Then you have all 3 of the Stargate units (plus the mothership) that can be hit by anti air. This is TERRIBLE DESIGN! I don't know how Blizzard let it end up like this, but something needs to change, and it starts with the colossus.
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On October 19 2011 22:23 tnud wrote:Show nested quote +David Kim:
As far as learning through the multiplayer, we learned that not everything works exactly as planned - the different roles for the units didn't work as well as we had planned. We planned to have the immortal be more of a meat shield, and have the hardened shield be one of the core mechanics; however, the burst damage ended up being the more important part of the unit. Show nested quote +Q: You guys said that you wanted to keep the unit pool small in a lot of interviews, how many units would you expect to add in the multiplayer, and how many would you expect to remove in order to keep the player experience good?
A: We have no idea how many we can add before it starts to feel watered down, we're starting to push Brood War unit numbers, every time we try to make a move we find that it's tough to keep the units and race abilities separate. We can easily add on, and tune and tweak, or in combination until we find the right mix for multiplayer.
For example, the Overseer is not a cool unit, it's basically a glorfied scout at this point. We're looking at either taking out or replacing these units that aren't as cool. The other thing that we need to watch out is how these units interact in combination.
We're starting to reach the number of units where the right answer isn't necessarily more; it doesn't mean that we can't get more, but how will we even know? Those are the relevant quotes from http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=228212I do believe I've heard they don't like the corruptor still. Must have been somewhere else..
The quote about corruptors was from a Dustin Browder interview
Interview
TL thread
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On October 19 2011 22:36 Storm_Rider wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 22:23 tnud wrote:David Kim:
As far as learning through the multiplayer, we learned that not everything works exactly as planned - the different roles for the units didn't work as well as we had planned. We planned to have the immortal be more of a meat shield, and have the hardened shield be one of the core mechanics; however, the burst damage ended up being the more important part of the unit. Q: You guys said that you wanted to keep the unit pool small in a lot of interviews, how many units would you expect to add in the multiplayer, and how many would you expect to remove in order to keep the player experience good?
A: We have no idea how many we can add before it starts to feel watered down, we're starting to push Brood War unit numbers, every time we try to make a move we find that it's tough to keep the units and race abilities separate. We can easily add on, and tune and tweak, or in combination until we find the right mix for multiplayer.
For example, the Overseer is not a cool unit, it's basically a glorfied scout at this point. We're looking at either taking out or replacing these units that aren't as cool. The other thing that we need to watch out is how these units interact in combination.
We're starting to reach the number of units where the right answer isn't necessarily more; it doesn't mean that we can't get more, but how will we even know? Those are the relevant quotes from http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=228212I do believe I've heard they don't like the corruptor still. Must have been somewhere else.. The quote about corruptors was from a Dustin Browder interview InterviewTL thread
Ah! Thanks
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Very hard to call this one. Looking at the sentry:
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/e/e5/Sentry.png)
The 'cockpit' bubble is of a similar proportion, and the amount of detail is about right too.
Then consider the way form closely follows function in SC2 Protoss. The elongated, tapered shape of the void ray suggests power focused on a single point. The omnidirectional mothership suits its slow, umbrella-like primary function. The sturdy immortal with its two massive guns promises to do big damage per shot. The Phoenix is clearly fast moving but fragile and not particularly heavy-hitting. The Stalker, with its slender legs, looks nimble and quick. And the sentry enfolds its energy sphere (which is at the rear of the body) hinting at a caster primarily used for protection and defence.
When I try to apply these principles to this outline, what do I get?
1. Closest similar design is the sentry, except this is a spikier design and the cracking energy is at the front, both suggesting offensive caster utility.
2. The design does not echo the elongated theme of existing Protoss air units. Nor do I think it would stack well graphically as air units should.
3. It does not look like a particularly fast-moving unit. Again these tend to be slender, elongated or with prominent means of propulsion (speedling, hellion, reaper, phoenix).
4. It has no prominent weapons and lacks the purposeful, 'aimed' appearance of other offensive units.
5. Although the sentry looks similar in proportions, I'm concerned that this unit would be too thin and frisbee-like at the same size.
On balance, my guess would therefore be, for want of a better term, a 'dark sentry' ground unit with spells geared towards offence. What those spells could be is next to impossible to guess without knowing what the context of the unit is - what the Protoss and other races comprise overall.
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On October 19 2011 22:30 Fig wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 22:21 Fragile51 wrote:On October 19 2011 22:18 BeeNu wrote:On October 19 2011 22:08 tnud wrote:On October 19 2011 21:50 Alejandro wrote:
Why is everyone talking about removing a unit from the game?
Did anyone from Blizzard hinted that some units might be gone for the new ones to appear? Or is it just guessing?
Not trying to troll, it´s a serious question.
They have said they will remove/replace some units. They have also said they "don't like" some units, like the corruptor. I also think the Colossus is pretty high up on the "do not like" list. It's a complete mismatch of a unit for Starcraft. Every other ranged aoe unit in the all of SC history has been difficult to use and control with a decent amount of risk/reward attached to it or it was a melee unit. Think of the Lurker, Siege Tank, Reaver, all of these required good placement and micro and positioning and forethought into actually using, the Colossus is just A-Move unit with very minimal micro, it's kinda stupid. Yeah agreed. An added problem is that the Collosus gets countered by the exact same unit Carriers are weak against (Vikings and Corruptors). I really hope that the robo end unit gets replaced by something cooler. Yep the colossus is a boring unit that promotes boring gameplay. Blizzard made it an easy unit to use, with a very low skill ceiling so pros can't show their stuff, and gave it very obvious and easy counters (vikings, corruptors). It's a unit that dumbs down the game. The fact that it's design also causes it to overlap with all protoss air units is just horrible. Think about this. Out of the Robo facility, 3 of the 4 units available can be hit by anti air. Then you have all 3 of the Stargate units (plus the mothership) that can be hit by anti air. This is TERRIBLE DESIGN! I don't know how Blizzard let it end up like this, but something needs to change, and it starts with the colossus.
the colossus is as boring as ultralisk/broodlords/carriers/thors/battlecruiser
all A move, if you want to remove colossus, you should remove the whole T3 units too.
people think protoss goes deathball because of colossus, but it is because the units protoss have needs to stick together and are so slow that after moving out, they can't retreat, so it is like an all in everytime you move out with your army.
it is not the colossus fault.
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On October 19 2011 23:51 rpgalon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 22:30 Fig wrote:On October 19 2011 22:21 Fragile51 wrote:On October 19 2011 22:18 BeeNu wrote:On October 19 2011 22:08 tnud wrote:On October 19 2011 21:50 Alejandro wrote:
Why is everyone talking about removing a unit from the game?
Did anyone from Blizzard hinted that some units might be gone for the new ones to appear? Or is it just guessing?
Not trying to troll, it´s a serious question.
They have said they will remove/replace some units. They have also said they "don't like" some units, like the corruptor. I also think the Colossus is pretty high up on the "do not like" list. It's a complete mismatch of a unit for Starcraft. Every other ranged aoe unit in the all of SC history has been difficult to use and control with a decent amount of risk/reward attached to it or it was a melee unit. Think of the Lurker, Siege Tank, Reaver, all of these required good placement and micro and positioning and forethought into actually using, the Colossus is just A-Move unit with very minimal micro, it's kinda stupid. Yeah agreed. An added problem is that the Collosus gets countered by the exact same unit Carriers are weak against (Vikings and Corruptors). I really hope that the robo end unit gets replaced by something cooler. Yep the colossus is a boring unit that promotes boring gameplay. Blizzard made it an easy unit to use, with a very low skill ceiling so pros can't show their stuff, and gave it very obvious and easy counters (vikings, corruptors). It's a unit that dumbs down the game. The fact that it's design also causes it to overlap with all protoss air units is just horrible. Think about this. Out of the Robo facility, 3 of the 4 units available can be hit by anti air. Then you have all 3 of the Stargate units (plus the mothership) that can be hit by anti air. This is TERRIBLE DESIGN! I don't know how Blizzard let it end up like this, but something needs to change, and it starts with the colossus. the colossus is as boring as ultralisk/broodlords/carriers/thors/battlecruiser all A move, if you want to remove colossus, you should remove the whole T3 units too. people think protoss goes deathball because of colossus, but it is because the units protoss have needs to stick together and are so slow that after moving out, they can't retreat, so it is like an all in everytime you move out with your army. it is not the colossus fault. At this point, I'm pretty sure most people calling for the removal of colossi are T/Z players that go pure marine or hydra/ling.
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On October 19 2011 23:51 rpgalon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 22:30 Fig wrote:On October 19 2011 22:21 Fragile51 wrote:On October 19 2011 22:18 BeeNu wrote:On October 19 2011 22:08 tnud wrote:On October 19 2011 21:50 Alejandro wrote:
Why is everyone talking about removing a unit from the game?
Did anyone from Blizzard hinted that some units might be gone for the new ones to appear? Or is it just guessing?
Not trying to troll, it´s a serious question.
They have said they will remove/replace some units. They have also said they "don't like" some units, like the corruptor. I also think the Colossus is pretty high up on the "do not like" list. It's a complete mismatch of a unit for Starcraft. Every other ranged aoe unit in the all of SC history has been difficult to use and control with a decent amount of risk/reward attached to it or it was a melee unit. Think of the Lurker, Siege Tank, Reaver, all of these required good placement and micro and positioning and forethought into actually using, the Colossus is just A-Move unit with very minimal micro, it's kinda stupid. Yeah agreed. An added problem is that the Collosus gets countered by the exact same unit Carriers are weak against (Vikings and Corruptors). I really hope that the robo end unit gets replaced by something cooler. Yep the colossus is a boring unit that promotes boring gameplay. Blizzard made it an easy unit to use, with a very low skill ceiling so pros can't show their stuff, and gave it very obvious and easy counters (vikings, corruptors). It's a unit that dumbs down the game. The fact that it's design also causes it to overlap with all protoss air units is just horrible. Think about this. Out of the Robo facility, 3 of the 4 units available can be hit by anti air. Then you have all 3 of the Stargate units (plus the mothership) that can be hit by anti air. This is TERRIBLE DESIGN! I don't know how Blizzard let it end up like this, but something needs to change, and it starts with the colossus. the colossus is as boring as ultralisk/broodlords/carriers/thors/battlecruiser all A move, if you want to remove colossus, you should remove the whole T3 units too. people think protoss goes deathball because of colossus, but it is because the units protoss have needs to stick together and are so slow that after moving out, they can't retreat, so it is like an all in everytime you move out with your army. it is not the colossus fault.
Ultralisk - no. You have to be super careful where you engage and how, and they have to lead the charge, taking damage, while you flank. They're a one-shot wonder. Colossus tiptoe around at the back adding titanic dps with no risk of getting in anything's way.
Broodlords - no. Much slower, much less health, less damage - again positioning is critical.
Carriers - maybe. But then again, they don't actually safely outrange a lot of stuff - the interceptors are vulnerable while attacking.
Thors - no. Their bulk means its easy to get the rest of your army stuck behind or in front of them and have nowhere to go when the banelings roll in.
Battlecruiser - maybe. But the lower range puts them in harm's way and they don't share upgrades.
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On October 20 2011 00:04 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 23:51 rpgalon wrote:On October 19 2011 22:30 Fig wrote:On October 19 2011 22:21 Fragile51 wrote:On October 19 2011 22:18 BeeNu wrote:On October 19 2011 22:08 tnud wrote:On October 19 2011 21:50 Alejandro wrote:
Why is everyone talking about removing a unit from the game?
Did anyone from Blizzard hinted that some units might be gone for the new ones to appear? Or is it just guessing?
Not trying to troll, it´s a serious question.
They have said they will remove/replace some units. They have also said they "don't like" some units, like the corruptor. I also think the Colossus is pretty high up on the "do not like" list. It's a complete mismatch of a unit for Starcraft. Every other ranged aoe unit in the all of SC history has been difficult to use and control with a decent amount of risk/reward attached to it or it was a melee unit. Think of the Lurker, Siege Tank, Reaver, all of these required good placement and micro and positioning and forethought into actually using, the Colossus is just A-Move unit with very minimal micro, it's kinda stupid. Yeah agreed. An added problem is that the Collosus gets countered by the exact same unit Carriers are weak against (Vikings and Corruptors). I really hope that the robo end unit gets replaced by something cooler. Yep the colossus is a boring unit that promotes boring gameplay. Blizzard made it an easy unit to use, with a very low skill ceiling so pros can't show their stuff, and gave it very obvious and easy counters (vikings, corruptors). It's a unit that dumbs down the game. The fact that it's design also causes it to overlap with all protoss air units is just horrible. Think about this. Out of the Robo facility, 3 of the 4 units available can be hit by anti air. Then you have all 3 of the Stargate units (plus the mothership) that can be hit by anti air. This is TERRIBLE DESIGN! I don't know how Blizzard let it end up like this, but something needs to change, and it starts with the colossus. the colossus is as boring as ultralisk/broodlords/carriers/thors/battlecruiser all A move, if you want to remove colossus, you should remove the whole T3 units too. people think protoss goes deathball because of colossus, but it is because the units protoss have needs to stick together and are so slow that after moving out, they can't retreat, so it is like an all in everytime you move out with your army. it is not the colossus fault. At this point, I'm pretty sure most people calling for the removal of colossi are T/Z players that go pure marine or hydra/ling.
Nah; I've heard at least as many Protoss complain about them as T or Z, simply because they're so good that the rest of the race has had to be balanced around 'what can a Protoss army do with 4-5 colossi in it?', which means a Protoss army without 4-5 colossi in it is distinctly sub-par.
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On October 20 2011 00:04 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 23:51 rpgalon wrote:On October 19 2011 22:30 Fig wrote:On October 19 2011 22:21 Fragile51 wrote:On October 19 2011 22:18 BeeNu wrote:On October 19 2011 22:08 tnud wrote:On October 19 2011 21:50 Alejandro wrote:
Why is everyone talking about removing a unit from the game?
Did anyone from Blizzard hinted that some units might be gone for the new ones to appear? Or is it just guessing?
Not trying to troll, it´s a serious question.
They have said they will remove/replace some units. They have also said they "don't like" some units, like the corruptor. I also think the Colossus is pretty high up on the "do not like" list. It's a complete mismatch of a unit for Starcraft. Every other ranged aoe unit in the all of SC history has been difficult to use and control with a decent amount of risk/reward attached to it or it was a melee unit. Think of the Lurker, Siege Tank, Reaver, all of these required good placement and micro and positioning and forethought into actually using, the Colossus is just A-Move unit with very minimal micro, it's kinda stupid. Yeah agreed. An added problem is that the Collosus gets countered by the exact same unit Carriers are weak against (Vikings and Corruptors). I really hope that the robo end unit gets replaced by something cooler. Yep the colossus is a boring unit that promotes boring gameplay. Blizzard made it an easy unit to use, with a very low skill ceiling so pros can't show their stuff, and gave it very obvious and easy counters (vikings, corruptors). It's a unit that dumbs down the game. The fact that it's design also causes it to overlap with all protoss air units is just horrible. Think about this. Out of the Robo facility, 3 of the 4 units available can be hit by anti air. Then you have all 3 of the Stargate units (plus the mothership) that can be hit by anti air. This is TERRIBLE DESIGN! I don't know how Blizzard let it end up like this, but something needs to change, and it starts with the colossus. the colossus is as boring as ultralisk/broodlords/carriers/thors/battlecruiser all A move, if you want to remove colossus, you should remove the whole T3 units too. people think protoss goes deathball because of colossus, but it is because the units protoss have needs to stick together and are so slow that after moving out, they can't retreat, so it is like an all in everytime you move out with your army. it is not the colossus fault. At this point, I'm pretty sure most people calling for the removal of colossi are T/Z players that go pure marine or hydra/ling.
I am pretty sure there are enough Protoss that dont like the Colossus either.
And I dont think there is anybody that wants the colossus removed without a proper replacement.
(I get the feeling that, that is what you think is the case)
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On October 19 2011 23:50 Umpteen wrote:
On balance, my guess would therefore be, for want of a better term, a 'dark sentry' ground unit with spells geared towards offence. What those spells could be is next to impossible to guess without knowing what the context of the unit is - what the Protoss and other races comprise overall.
Perhaps it's just a new model for the sentry (which is quite ugly imho, at least worst than the nullifier in beta). Of course Blizzard wouldn't be that mean to Protoss players (i guess).
Long live the Colossus.
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On October 20 2011 00:06 Umpteen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 23:51 rpgalon wrote:On October 19 2011 22:30 Fig wrote:On October 19 2011 22:21 Fragile51 wrote:On October 19 2011 22:18 BeeNu wrote:On October 19 2011 22:08 tnud wrote:On October 19 2011 21:50 Alejandro wrote:
Why is everyone talking about removing a unit from the game?
Did anyone from Blizzard hinted that some units might be gone for the new ones to appear? Or is it just guessing?
Not trying to troll, it´s a serious question.
They have said they will remove/replace some units. They have also said they "don't like" some units, like the corruptor. I also think the Colossus is pretty high up on the "do not like" list. It's a complete mismatch of a unit for Starcraft. Every other ranged aoe unit in the all of SC history has been difficult to use and control with a decent amount of risk/reward attached to it or it was a melee unit. Think of the Lurker, Siege Tank, Reaver, all of these required good placement and micro and positioning and forethought into actually using, the Colossus is just A-Move unit with very minimal micro, it's kinda stupid. Yeah agreed. An added problem is that the Collosus gets countered by the exact same unit Carriers are weak against (Vikings and Corruptors). I really hope that the robo end unit gets replaced by something cooler. Yep the colossus is a boring unit that promotes boring gameplay. Blizzard made it an easy unit to use, with a very low skill ceiling so pros can't show their stuff, and gave it very obvious and easy counters (vikings, corruptors). It's a unit that dumbs down the game. The fact that it's design also causes it to overlap with all protoss air units is just horrible. Think about this. Out of the Robo facility, 3 of the 4 units available can be hit by anti air. Then you have all 3 of the Stargate units (plus the mothership) that can be hit by anti air. This is TERRIBLE DESIGN! I don't know how Blizzard let it end up like this, but something needs to change, and it starts with the colossus. the colossus is as boring as ultralisk/broodlords/carriers/thors/battlecruiser all A move, if you want to remove colossus, you should remove the whole T3 units too. people think protoss goes deathball because of colossus, but it is because the units protoss have needs to stick together and are so slow that after moving out, they can't retreat, so it is like an all in everytime you move out with your army. it is not the colossus fault. Ultralisk - no. You have to be super careful where you engage and how, and they have to lead the charge, taking damage, while you flank. They're a one-shot wonder. Colossus tiptoe around at the back adding titanic dps with no risk of getting in anything's way. Broodlords - no. Much slower, much less health, less damage - again positioning is critical. Carriers - maybe. But then again, they don't actually safely outrange a lot of stuff - the interceptors are vulnerable while attacking. Thors - no. Their bulk means its easy to get the rest of your army stuck behind or in front of them and have nowhere to go when the banelings roll in. Battlecruiser - maybe. But the lower range puts them in harm's way and they don't share upgrades.
colossus needs positioning too, and need to dance(micro) before the engagement because of vikings and corruptors, and need to be microed in the engagement so you are not wasting colossus atack on single units and need to be retreated everytime the enemy decides to go foward and focus fire the colossus.
yeah, you can A-move with then, but you can A-move with anything, it is really bad to A-move and forget your colossus.
if anything colossus needs more micro than any other T3 unit.
PS: they look good because they counter roaches/hydras, marines/marauders and gateway
I don't like then, because they are hard countered by units that counter the air play too, so after going colossus you are locked with gateway units.
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On October 20 2011 00:04 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 23:51 rpgalon wrote:On October 19 2011 22:30 Fig wrote:On October 19 2011 22:21 Fragile51 wrote:On October 19 2011 22:18 BeeNu wrote:On October 19 2011 22:08 tnud wrote:On October 19 2011 21:50 Alejandro wrote:
Why is everyone talking about removing a unit from the game?
Did anyone from Blizzard hinted that some units might be gone for the new ones to appear? Or is it just guessing?
Not trying to troll, it´s a serious question.
They have said they will remove/replace some units. They have also said they "don't like" some units, like the corruptor. I also think the Colossus is pretty high up on the "do not like" list. It's a complete mismatch of a unit for Starcraft. Every other ranged aoe unit in the all of SC history has been difficult to use and control with a decent amount of risk/reward attached to it or it was a melee unit. Think of the Lurker, Siege Tank, Reaver, all of these required good placement and micro and positioning and forethought into actually using, the Colossus is just A-Move unit with very minimal micro, it's kinda stupid. Yeah agreed. An added problem is that the Collosus gets countered by the exact same unit Carriers are weak against (Vikings and Corruptors). I really hope that the robo end unit gets replaced by something cooler. Yep the colossus is a boring unit that promotes boring gameplay. Blizzard made it an easy unit to use, with a very low skill ceiling so pros can't show their stuff, and gave it very obvious and easy counters (vikings, corruptors). It's a unit that dumbs down the game. The fact that it's design also causes it to overlap with all protoss air units is just horrible. Think about this. Out of the Robo facility, 3 of the 4 units available can be hit by anti air. Then you have all 3 of the Stargate units (plus the mothership) that can be hit by anti air. This is TERRIBLE DESIGN! I don't know how Blizzard let it end up like this, but something needs to change, and it starts with the colossus. the colossus is as boring as ultralisk/broodlords/carriers/thors/battlecruiser all A move, if you want to remove colossus, you should remove the whole T3 units too. people think protoss goes deathball because of colossus, but it is because the units protoss have needs to stick together and are so slow that after moving out, they can't retreat, so it is like an all in everytime you move out with your army. it is not the colossus fault. At this point, I'm pretty sure most people calling for the removal of colossi are T/Z players that go pure marine or hydra/ling.
No it's because the Collosi has a flawed design since it is intended as the Protoss ''siege'' unit. Check this out.
In BW
Siege Tank - Strong but immobile, needs to siege for AoE attack.
Lurker - Strong but immobile, needs to burrow to attack.
Reaver - Sick AOE but really slow, needs to build scarabs and ''aim'' with it's missle attacks.
In SC2
Siege Tank - same as in BW.
Broodlord - Strong but immobile, ''summons broodlings''.
Collosi - Mobile and can walk cliffs.
Do you see how flawed this is?!
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EPT
