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Here's my take: The casters need to figure out what role they're playing in the casting team. By the way, there are two:
Analyst:
(Examples: Artosis, Rotterdam, Day9, Apollo)
(How to tell who is a analyst: Someone you'd like to teach you sc2)
The analyst should be doing the deep... analysis of the game. Trying to get into the head of the player, talking about why decisions are being made. Talk about what sort of follow ups would be good here, or what is currently popular in the meta. Talk about why a decision to let cloaked banshees pick off combat shield marines (instead of the nearby SCVs) for free is actually a good idea and not mis-management of units. This guy should have (and usually does) his own screen where he can switch through unit tabs, check on player views, etc.
Commentator:
(Examples: Tasteless, MrBitter, djWHEAT, TotalBiscut)
(How to tell who is a commentator: Someone you'd like to get drunk with*)
The commentator should be doing shallow play-by-play. This sounds like a terrible job but its not, its just as important. This person is tasked with keeping the attention of the entire crowd, from baddie bronze to GM. Tasteless is amazing at this. He'll often take something that Artosis said and break it down with something like "For those of you who are new to the game...". This is incredibly helpful for new people and helps grow the scene.
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Anyway, you need to have one of each, and they need to know what role they're playing on the team. In some cases, it didn't seem like the HD/PainUser team had this sorted -- had they, the casting might have "made more sense". Also, unreasonably getting hype gets a little annoying. If momentarily took my eyes off, I want to be drawn back to the cast when something is going on, but only when something is going on. Not when something very silly happens.
* I'd probably get drunk w them all, js.
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You and painuser did great man, bay area ftw
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On October 11 2011 15:09 0neder wrote:
I'd like to give you some feedback you probably weren't expecting. I hope you guys, IPL, and your competitors take it to heart. I know I will give definite preference to whoever does.
1. TURN OFF PROGRESS STATS BARS.
Existing stuff is fine, income is fine, just don't tell me what's going to happen in the future. It completely kills the excitement by about 300%. Don't tell me how behind someone is either. That kills the game instantly. Don't show the worker/unit tab.
2. To be honest, I don't expect amazing game knowledge, and I don't even really want it. Don't try to predict what will happen, just hype up what IS happening. Don't show skepticism of a strategy, give a player the benefit of the doubt and hype up his guts to give each variable more importance by cheesing.
I enjoy your casting in terms of delivery and excitement. Sometimes it feels a little fake, but overall you guys are good. Just give me uncertainty and excitement over omniscience and declarations that a game's over so I might as well stop watching.
Wow, this is just about the worst feedback ever. So you basically want games casted at the level Husky was at the beginning of SC2, where all he did was hype what was happening only at what he was looking at and added 0 valuable analysis whatsoever. That is terrible for people watching and makes casts very stale and "fake." That's why casting pairs need a "hype-machine" and one "high-analysis guy," and both must have a top-level understanding of the game. Painuser is fine, and as HD mentioned, his game knowledge needs work.
HD: I can see that you are trying to add enthusiasm to your casting, however, it seems forced and unnatural. To give some contrast, Doa's casting seems genuine, but he's so incredibly dorky thinks that everyone gets his jokes that his casts become so awkward and just bad for the public to watch (sorry for the slant), but it comes out natural for him because that's who he is. I'm unsure what kind of caster you're going for HD, I just don't see you being able to analyze at the level of an Artosis/Day9, but you seem to want to be a Tasteless type caster. I think the direction you should head is mastering projection of your tone/voice and increase your game knowledge, but not so that you can become an Artosis type analyzer, but just so you can be a sidekick Tasteless type caster to hype. You're heading in this direction even though I think you're trying to be an analyzer, but you need that game knowledge there even though you're not gonna be doin the indepth stuff.
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How anyone can say people like DOA and CatsPyjamas are better than Painuser i will never ever know. Painuser has everything a caster needs. Keep it up.
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Hd and painUser you did great ♥ Thanks for casting !
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Painuser was very insightful, especially when commenting on Terran players. HD became less annoying by the end of the event, but he still needs to talk less imo. He tried to predict what was going to happen and many times he was completely wrong
"I think he's gonna make banshees with cloak" when there is no tech lab on the starport (or even near it) and a medivac is being made. But just looking at the game for 2 seconds he could have said something much smarter, or nothing at all.
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Here's the best feedback you can get about IPL4 -
The observer, Legend, told me more about the game and what was going on at points than the casters. IMO, Legend stole the show with his gosu observing. You're not going to be able to cram everything that's going on in a cast, but the blatantly obvious example was Legend clicking on the Nestea spire about 40 times to alert you guys and you never once mentioned it until 5 minutes into the technical difficulties break.
HD's voice is really good and soothing for casting so no complaints there. PainUser does this odd "whisper" voice that I'm ambivalent towards (maybe others have feedback).
Otherwise, it was solid - nothing too awful, nothing ground breaking either. Good work, best of luck.
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Think they did good.
If baseline is make a non pro player understand the flow of the game and whats happening i think great.
Sure there was some faulty stuff and brainfreezes but who doesnt have them. i really enjoy tastosis even tho tasteless is the king of saying wrong stuff and beeing inaccurate sometimes but overall excellent.
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On April 10 2012 03:16 tbrown47 wrote:
I feel like the hive-mind has warped everyone's opinions on HD/PainUser as casters. They are my second favorite to listen to next to Tasteless/Artosis.
HD/PU if you are reading this as I'm sure you are, remember this is the vocal minority speaking. I love your casts and I'm sure most people do, so don't take unwarranted criticism too hard.
That's stupid. The point of this thread is for criticism. The last thing we need is blind casters who refuse to improve based on criticism.
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This event just reinforced my opinion about HD. And EVEN WORSE, he kept saying "Player A should be doing this!!! Really!! I swear it's true!!! He should do this and that and this. Why is he not doing it I don't know"
Seriously, you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Oh yeah, Legend's observing was absolutely great. He kept checking out upgrades, buildings, unit health, engagements, drops, production queue. His mouse circling was on the spot.
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On April 10 2012 03:56 Odal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 03:16 tbrown47 wrote:
I feel like the hive-mind has warped everyone's opinions on HD/PainUser as casters. They are my second favorite to listen to next to Tasteless/Artosis.
HD/PU if you are reading this as I'm sure you are, remember this is the vocal minority speaking. I love your casts and I'm sure most people do, so don't take unwarranted criticism too hard. That's stupid. The point of this thread is for criticism. The last thing we need is blind casters who refuse to improve based on criticism.
Problem is alot of it is not constructive criticism.
People have their favourites, and it seems if you are not tastosis you are no one.
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Idk about PainUser but HD is really bad:
His casts are uninformative, he uses same words all time, and once u realize he uses them u get annoyed, example is him yelling "Oh MY GODNESS" all time, seriously, in each IPL cast durning every game i hear it....He does a lot of theory crafting that make no sense, honestly i hope HD gets removed from casting job, this has been going on for more than a year, look how many other talented casters could take his place and fix ipl casting!
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I feel like every time HD says something, Painuser has to take the time to correct it and show how it is wrong. Painuser is a great caster and had he been paired with someone else I think it would have been much better.
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I've benen following your YouTube casts for a long time, though I didn't get the chance to watch much IPL. I think your best quality is that you have a very smooth and clean voice that is easy to listen to. You could probably improve on some areas, but don't be too hard on yourself 
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Painuser's insight is very good and he is doing a great job at describing the game, but unfortunately I can't stand HD.
His humor feels very stale, and he is hyping the things he shouldn't be hyping. On top of that, he seems to have almost no idea about factors like race specific macro, positioning, map control etc.
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stop asking for applause every 10 seconds.
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On April 10 2012 04:09 LeonStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 03:56 Odal wrote:On April 10 2012 03:16 tbrown47 wrote:
I feel like the hive-mind has warped everyone's opinions on HD/PainUser as casters. They are my second favorite to listen to next to Tasteless/Artosis.
HD/PU if you are reading this as I'm sure you are, remember this is the vocal minority speaking. I love your casts and I'm sure most people do, so don't take unwarranted criticism too hard. That's stupid. The point of this thread is for criticism. The last thing we need is blind casters who refuse to improve based on criticism. Problem is alot of it is not constructive criticism. People have their favourites, and it seems if you are not tastosis you are no one.
That doesn't justify the decision to ignore criticism altogether as you are implying. Take criticism as it is given, ignore the ones that are just hateful and without substance and focus on the ones that seem genuine.
Your second statement is a massive exaggeration. People like tastosis because they are good casters and have set the bar for other casters in people's eyes. Viewers appreciate good analysis as well as insight on strategy. It's not just about hyping the game any more like HD and Husky did back in the beta because no body knew how to play the game back then. Yes, we do expect casters to change their styles to appeal to their viewership and it's clear what type of casting the community is after. Tastosis definitely did not over do it, imo Day9 and Apollo are right up there with them. Bitterdam also have their place in the casting community and even Husky and djWheat may not have the best analysis, but it is very clear they've improved over time and put in a lot of effort into the community. They don't just yell a ton of bullshit when they have no idea what's going on in a game.
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On April 10 2012 05:47 Forbidden17 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 04:09 LeonStarcraft wrote:On April 10 2012 03:56 Odal wrote:On April 10 2012 03:16 tbrown47 wrote:
I feel like the hive-mind has warped everyone's opinions on HD/PainUser as casters. They are my second favorite to listen to next to Tasteless/Artosis.
HD/PU if you are reading this as I'm sure you are, remember this is the vocal minority speaking. I love your casts and I'm sure most people do, so don't take unwarranted criticism too hard. That's stupid. The point of this thread is for criticism. The last thing we need is blind casters who refuse to improve based on criticism. Problem is alot of it is not constructive criticism. People have their favourites, and it seems if you are not tastosis you are no one. That doesn't justify the decision to ignore criticism altogether as you are implying. Take criticism as it is given, ignore the ones that are just hateful and without substance and focus on the ones that seem genuine. Your second statement is a massive exaggeration. People like tastosis because they are good casters and have set the bar for other casters in people's eyes. Viewers appreciate good analysis as well as insight on strategy. It's not just about hyping the game any more like HD and Husky did back in the beta because no body knew how to play the game back then. Yes, we do expect casters to change their styles to appeal to their viewership and it's clear what type of casting the community is after. Tastosis definitely did not over do it, imo Day9 and Apollo are right up there with them. Bitterdam also have their place in the casting community and even Husky and djWheat may not have the best analysis, but it is very clear they've improved over time and put in a lot of effort into the community. They don't just yell a ton of bullshit when they have no idea what's going on in a game.
I didn't mean to say ignore criticism if that is the way it came off... But some people are just plain hating on HD/PU and that shit needs to stop.
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EPT
