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Deezl
United States355 Posts
On October 12 2011 08:18 mr.reee wrote: hd & painuser both rolled their eyes at me when I gave them a cheer passing by in Caesar's. Pretty lame. HD sat down with me and a couple dudes for lunch and we talked Starcraft and other stuff. It was pretty sick. | ||
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olmnator
Panama30 Posts
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
One thing you could do is not be afraid to talk over the other person when you notice something. The more the camera is jumping around to the action the better I dont care if it messes up the "smoothness" of your talking. And don't make the observer guess what you are talking about. if there is a drop going on and one person notices it that person should be like "9 o clock natural big drop!" in the middle of the other persons sentence. I like you guys. You make funny jokes. | ||
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ectonym
United States147 Posts
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Que
Australia20 Posts
I watched your casts when I started playing SC2 and I liked your casting over Husky's machinegun talks. Husky only recently changed the his game and I found myself starting to accept his casting. you have a calm voice plus very good energy in your casting and I am sure many here knows that; as a frequent MC for parties and weddings, I would like to share some views with you: 1. Focus on the game itself more. this is the key to the professional flavor. Player's background story, their previous game outcome and their personality/life style can be touched but never should be spend notable time for, during the game casting. too much talk about what the player did in yesterday's matches is not relevent and it provides no value to the current game and doesn't help when viewers watching your cast when off sync. 2. The cast is about the players and game. Better leave the stories such as your car, your sound card or your breakfast out of it. This was showing too much and nearly making me (really, it made me) start to avoid your cast lately, mainly in your solo casting on your own channel. During the 2v2 casting you show much less of it and I really like the shift, and I am sure you can do better in just complete cutting out those things and simply talk about whats going on on the screen. 3. Not everyone is after a textbook show. as much as we appreciate the knowledge and game insights, it is not mendatory to a good game cast. we watch the game casts because it is Entertainment. How many Soccor game casters predict the team strategies? and what would it make the Soccor game? knowledge is good but more importantly, it is about the PLAYER's decision. Caster's job is to control and promote the emotion flow for the views when they watch the game, so the viewing experience becomes more enjoyable. Of course, if you know more about the gameplay it helps a lot; but you can make the game cast totaly enjoyable even without much in-depth analysis. A caster's job is not there to tell people what is going to happen next. their job is to ensure we feel excited for gameplay when we should be! 4. Personal Bias is bad. we all have been there. Zerg. Idra. Korea. everything else. Being a professional, however, is about being fair. don't you think? 5. Humor is good but do not overstay the welcome. Good humor largely comes in from confidence and confidence comes in from knowing the scene; I felt you and PainUser could double cast games a bit more because at the moment I felt your flows do not connect from moment to moment. there is nothing worse than letting a talk went cold and none of you two steps in. that harmony between two casters come in as they work together more and more. I understand Morrow's comments and where he came from, however I don't think it is caster's job to educate or train viewers. Those who has good knowledge but can not fluently speak their mind out shouldn't be casting games, right? for example, I enjoy TotalBiscuit's casting because even though he doesn't offer much of a gamer view, but with good voice, good personality and he is fun to watch; I sometimes watch his casting eventhough I am not that interested in the match itself; I think Apollo and Tasteless are both overrated (no offence, dudes, just personal opinion) - can't talk. Choke way too much. There are other casters sitting in the middle; I have no doubt that they are important SC community members and should be recognised for what they do, however i just think they should not be casting. I am sure i am not alone here. I really think you have a huge potential to become a caster of top level. Hope the points above help a bit. Thanks for reading. | ||
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
I'm surprised at the whole "bad analysis" comments because both HD and Painuser are likely far better at the game than anyone saying this. I can't really say either way (or care), but Painuser is hilariously terran biased however. I don't mind though cause I find it funny. | ||
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dizzy101
Netherlands2066 Posts
Also, sometimes a bit too much hyperbole (this engagement was SICK, this player is THE BEST, this game is LEGENDARY). But I think this is a thing about American casters--they tend to do that a bit too much. | ||
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ArchDC
Malaysia1996 Posts
On October 12 2011 09:13 Snorkle wrote: HD, a few things you do that really drive me towards hitting the mute button: Calling banelings blings; calling marines and marauders m&m; assuming pro players are doing something wrong when their build goes over your head or they have noticed something you have not; Extreme forced excitement; saying you don't know who is winning when supplies are extremely skewed in one players favor (I'm not sure if this is because you are trying to keep it interesting or just never look at the supply); calling who will win a battle completely wrong and then trying to cover for it. There is nothing wrong with genuine excitement (see Artosis casting Nestea anytime he plays) but when you sound like a care salesmen it becomes off-putting. Also, be ok with not knowing something. When a battle occurs, instead of trying to tell us who is winning just give us a play by play of what is happening, highlighting interesting micro or positioning. On obsing- I don't know who was doing it but sometimes the obsing was horrendous. If you want to see what good observing is take a look at some of the WCG Korea qualifiers. You want to avoid scrolling all over the place. The observer tells a story through framing shots just like a photographer. You will notice the Korean observer will usually select a shot, slightly correct the camera and then leave it still for a few seconds while often highlighting specific things on the screen. He will then move to another spot on the map and repeat. I know this is difficult to do while casting which is why having a third person obs is really essential for high production tournaments. +1 on the WCG Korea qualifiers observing. It's not only that, I think all casters need a good understanding of the game (not necessarily execution) but need to know the timings, the builds, the counters etc. You then know what to look out for, and can provide deeper analysis. The WCG qualifiers and BW Korean commentating in general shows both excitement n in-depth analysis, from all casters (often all 3 of them). Many BW casters are former top-level players, who are genuinely excited to see how the game, builds, counters will turn out. Thus, it worth repeating that depth of knowledge is necessary to appreciate, and be genuinely excited in the small nuances (which can be pointed out) of how things will turn out. How does this mesh w the preferred 1 play-by-play and 1 analytical caster? The Korean casters take turns calling the plays or one person does it and all three of them are very careful in not interrupting each other. They also feed on each others analysis, not so much arguing/debating/theory-crafting but building on each other's ideas/analysis. When a co-caster points something they did not recognize, they get excited just as the viewer would. Bringing to the attention of the viewer, things they are not noticing (be it micro, army positioning, counter set-ups, expected transitions, ongoing transitions) w enthusiasm and excited anticipation is what makes a caster invaluable. When it comes to appreciating builds/transitions/counters, observation is key in laying out the story of what is happening @ various points in the game and not just focusing on battles and army movements solely. Viewers will find games more epic when they can appreciate a brilliant, difficult to execute move/build/micro/etc. and the casters go a long way in providing and explaining this (which requires the ability to recognize it). The polar opposite is saying obvious elementary things which would cause face-palms among more experienced players. | ||
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riboflavin
United States226 Posts
On October 12 2011 03:50 MorroW wrote: personality: good chemistry: good entertainment: good awareness: pretty bad analysis: lacking surprisingly much i think you should try to talk to artosis or other great analysis casters, even progamers and ask them how to improve on this and then focus very much on it. maybe you should try talk to apollo, i talked to him the other day and he said he has been focusing on this exact part very much lately and i can tell, its working great for him you did a good job overall but see it like this. the game is constantly evolving and the progamers has to practice so hard to keep up, now casters has to do the exactly same thing. even if you did a good job you need to improve to not fall behind the rest of the content people watch. you cant just as a caster sit and cast games to improve upon it, its like saying progamers practice by playing tournaments, which is somewhat ineffective. sit down alone in your room in silence and actually study everything thats going on in a replay/vod, from both perspectives. understand the game, understand the timings and learn the builds to detail. the reason why people actually love listening to idra casting is because he can see both players bases tell what builds they have and who is ahead and if a timing attack will kill them etc, he can do this because he knows how to identify a build, knows the timing of it and knows what it is supposed to counter and how to stop it/scout it. seeing 4 rax and calling one player is gonna do some sort of bio aggression is not analysis, im not directing any of this to you but im just painting a picture of how actually complicated things are if you wanna do it perfectly also as im reading through other peoples comments it just shows that what viewers actually want is very different from another. i read some guys dont want you to tell who is ahead and instead pretend its even all game long which i personally think is retarded, but hey thats his opinion and i have my own. i guess you just need to figure out what you want to be as a caster, on what level do you want to be on and what audience do you want to direct at, and from there you quickly will know what you need to improve and focus on Morrow is right, if only a little too nice in his wording. I'll just say that his advice on picking a casting style and becoming the best at that is dead on. I'd also like to add a list of things HD should consider. This isn't sugar coated, and I will qualify this as someone who wants to see you be great for the overall benefit of ESPORTS. HD should:
I think a lot of this could be helped by simply slowing down, considering the moment, and taking control of your own words. If you feel like you are speaking in slow motion, you are probably doing way better that if you just spouted off crap without a filter. | ||
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zTz
United States476 Posts
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althaz
Australia1001 Posts
 .Painuser has decent game knowledge but comes across as a bit of a balance whiner (obviously he plays Terran and TvP is his worst matchup, if not then just lol). You are doing ok, but game knowledge could be better (this does apply to most casters though tbh). In particular I think you need to get excited when a player does something you haven't seen. Give the players the benefit of the doubt and get pumped up. Another good thing would be that when you don't really like what a player is doing, instead of saying you don't like it (and then being corrected by Painuser a lot of the time), ask your casting partner about it. It might be bad, but it might just be good in a way you are not aware of .Just in general I think that you guys need to work on your chemistry a little bit (it's not bad, but it of course could be better). The other thing is GET MORE EXCITED. Both of you often say the right things but just no in a pumped-up enough way. Again, not saying you do all this stuff badly all the time or that you guys suck (you don't, btw), I'm just saying that these are the things holding you back from teams like Tastosis or nowadays even K9 (that's Husky plus Day9 btw). | ||
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Lann555
Netherlands5173 Posts
Only thing that annoys me is Painuser saying 'mid' all the time, but I'll learn to live with that  | ||
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Nickemwit
United States253 Posts
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jojoleb
Lebanon180 Posts
i didnt follow IPL3 closely but i'd say that getting more information/background on players (% win ratios, more stats. etcc, ladder points , tournaments finishes) before the games start can always help hyping up the game thx and keep up the good work ! | ||
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paddyz
Ireland628 Posts
Sorry for complaining here but I have to agree it is irritating when you (hd) make bad judgments on how an engagement or game is going to go or when you say what you would have done (always muta ).As for painuser I think he makes a great contribution when it comes to commentating on a terrans perspective but I find it slightly annoying that neither of you convey how a protoss would approach a game, react or give their perspective on a map/matchup. Overall thanks for putting in all the effort and reducing the bias and good luck in your respective casting careers. HD <3 for your you tube channel for providing me with a wealth of SC2 content when i was a nub. Helped get me into the game, I will be forever grateful (though only slightly grateful ) | ||
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NeoSlicerZ
Ireland470 Posts
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gr8stalin
United States20 Posts
Also, from #411 False or otherwise hollow excitement is condescending and a massive turn off to viewers. Get excited when something matters. Honestly, there are so few yell worthy moments in a typical SC2 match that you ruin the best moments by having watered them down from earlier. I think a lot of other users before me have covered my grievances, but for the most part I think you two did ok. | ||
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Fwiffo
Canada57 Posts
Being 100% knowledgeable about the game isn't necessary either, but you do need to be safe in your calls. If you go out on limb it's OK but present it with a little doubt and an exit strategy. In many ways your style fits with one a my favorite Brood War casters - CholeraSC. His game knowledge wasn't immaculate but he had way of weaving interesting humor into his casts when he gaffed. Oh, here's just a random cast to see what I'm talking about You also need to work on being independent as a caster and learn to develop a rapport with anyone you're partnered with. I do believe Pain User unintentionally throws you off because you react to his subtle and not so subtle biases in the game. In challenging him, consciously or otherwise, you lose your rhythm and not recommended since he's practiced and dogged in his arguments and relies upon his rep as a Pro to lend credibility to them. You do need to learn to defer to another caster but ensure that you don't give up what YOU have to offer. As for PainUser, your bias and agenda is painfully apparent to those who don't share Terran as their favorite race. Not only is this inappropriate as a caster but it limits your insight into the nuances of the game. A universal perspective would afford you a greater audience in addition to expanding your game sense. But of course feeling victimized is your name. I'd adopt the Thorzain attitude. He's not afraid to joke about obvious advantages in his race and allows those who aren't rooting for Terran to appreciate him and his skill. It's obvious there's a clear advantage to pandering to 1/3rd of the community - you are guaranteed their support. The thing is you already have competition from the likes of CatsPajamas, DoA and Gretorp. And the more people become familiar with the graph below, the more you look out of touch with the state of SC2. Edit: I can only imagine what you will be saying when the meta-game shifts and Terran is no longer top dog. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cGzPj.png) | ||
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