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New Zerg Unit in Heart of The Swarm - Page 50

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Nachtwind
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany1130 Posts
October 10 2011 21:26 GMT
#981
theres no hole goddamn :>
invisible tetris level master
Radison
Profile Joined January 2010
Poland44 Posts
October 10 2011 21:27 GMT
#982
Guys, it's just a baneling with a combat shield.
loleraserheadz112
Profile Joined January 2011
United States63 Posts
October 10 2011 21:29 GMT
#983
On October 11 2011 06:24 BeeNu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 06:18 Roblin wrote:

notice that both protoss and terran have ranged AoE basic attack units, (colossus, archon and hellion respectively, tank might also be put in this cathegory, though it cannot be a-moved while retaining its splash ability) while this is not the case for zerg (baneling and ultralisk are both melee (I call the ultralisks 2 range melee)).



Maaaaaaan, this just makes me realize that Blizzard really dropped the ball with designing the Colossus.

Back in BW all of the splash damage units were either basically melee range [Archon, Firebat] or required some serious micro and positioning and/or target firing to be effective such as the Siege Tank, Reaver and Lurker.

Now we get to SC2 and it's nearly the same, Banelings are melee, Siege Tanks the same...but then we get to the A-Move Colossus and it breaks my heart.


ok sry /end rant


I agree completely. Your totally right about units with splash. I did not even think about that. I always had a feeling colossus was not a balanced unit. This man speaks the TRUTH!
Insanity is repeating the same task and expecting different results.
Dragar
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom971 Posts
October 10 2011 21:29 GMT
#984
On October 11 2011 06:26 Marth753 wrote:
A lot of people are noting what appears to be an opening in the inflated abdomen of the creature, but I think it looks kinda strange for something of that purpose. I think its the curvature of the shell on its back or something.

I don't think it's an AoE style unit because I think it would be OP as hell for zerg to be able to mass produce ranged AoE attackers. Think about it, if T or P could easily produce 5-10 siege tanks or colossi at a time with no investment in more factories or robos, wouldn't that be ridiculous?


Agreed! Imagine if they were invisible while 'sieged' and did splash damage in a linear line. Such a unit could never exist in a balanced game!
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8072 Posts
October 10 2011 21:29 GMT
#985
Almost certain this is somekind of siege unit ala Lurker. That is, after all, what most bw era players have missed the most. Some way of "locking" down areas. Closest thing for zerg players right now is infestors.
Darathor
Profile Joined February 2011
United States327 Posts
October 10 2011 21:30 GMT
#986
It looks like a long-range ground artillery or anti-air zerg unit. It also seems like it will be morphed from roaches or more likely hydralisks. This, however, means that it will likely be a tier 2.5 or tier 3 unit which wouldn't make sense for zerg, as they have broodlords that fill a siege role already. They should just buff ultralisks and make them less stupid(a suggestion for that would be to give ultralisks a slight range increase, allowing them to attack over a zergling, not sure how good that would make them). If it's an early anti-air morphed from zerglings, that would be great, but it's probably a late-game unit.
EGLzGaMeR
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1867 Posts
October 10 2011 21:30 GMT
#987
Who's That Pokemon?!!! On a more serious note.. It reminds me a lot of a lurker :D
loleraserheadz112
Profile Joined January 2011
United States63 Posts
October 10 2011 21:30 GMT
#988
On October 11 2011 06:29 Dragar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 06:26 Marth753 wrote:
A lot of people are noting what appears to be an opening in the inflated abdomen of the creature, but I think it looks kinda strange for something of that purpose. I think its the curvature of the shell on its back or something.

I don't think it's an AoE style unit because I think it would be OP as hell for zerg to be able to mass produce ranged AoE attackers. Think about it, if T or P could easily produce 5-10 siege tanks or colossi at a time with no investment in more factories or robos, wouldn't that be ridiculous?


Agreed! Imagine if they were invisible while 'sieged' and did splash damage in a linear line. Such a unit could never exist in a balanced game!


lmao your awesome you win my heart <3
Insanity is repeating the same task and expecting different results.
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
October 10 2011 21:31 GMT
#989
It looks like a different approach to the hydraroach. Instead of the Hydra being on top of the roach, it's a hydra in the front with the back half of a roach. Tank Hydra! OMG SICK DPS AND A TANK. Also, it moves at a medium speed to balance roach speed with slow as shit hydras. It was evolved by zerg forces to be baller, as previously mentioned in the hydra roach thread
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
_Darwin_
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2374 Posts
October 10 2011 21:31 GMT
#990
[image loading]
I cant stop lactating
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2141 Posts
October 10 2011 21:32 GMT
#991
On October 11 2011 05:02 exShikari wrote:
It's gonna be an evolved species of lurker, along the same vein as how the protoss phased out dragoons in favour of stalkers.

If that's true it would actually be a devolved form of lurker...

But that really does look like a hydra morph, I hope it doesn't suck as much as hydras currently do.
vibeo gane,
MooMooMugi
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States10531 Posts
October 10 2011 21:32 GMT
#992
a BANELING siege bomber
|LoL & SC2 IGN both my username| Just livin' the baylife| Hearthstone ID: MooMooMugi#1544| Dank Memer since 2011
Noxblood
Profile Joined February 2011
Norway374 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-10 21:34:38
October 10 2011 21:32 GMT
#993
On October 11 2011 06:29 FullAccess wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 06:24 BeeNu wrote:
On October 11 2011 06:18 Roblin wrote:

notice that both protoss and terran have ranged AoE basic attack units, (colossus, archon and hellion respectively, tank might also be put in this cathegory, though it cannot be a-moved while retaining its splash ability) while this is not the case for zerg (baneling and ultralisk are both melee (I call the ultralisks 2 range melee)).



Maaaaaaan, this just makes me realize that Blizzard really dropped the ball with designing the Colossus.

Back in BW all of the splash damage units were either basically melee range [Archon, Firebat] or required some serious micro and positioning and/or target firing to be effective such as the Siege Tank, Reaver and Lurker.

Now we get to SC2 and it's nearly the same, Banelings are melee, Siege Tanks the same...but then we get to the A-Move Colossus and it breaks my heart.


ok sry /end rant


I agree completely. Your totally right about units with splash. I did not even think about that. I always had a feeling colossus was not a balanced unit. This man speaks the TRUTH!

lets not move this inn to a balance topic! I bet the ban hammer will come so fast!
Life isn't hard, we just suck at it.
TaktiDerBlonde
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany33 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-10 21:34:09
October 10 2011 21:33 GMT
#994
hmm now i also think its just a upgraded baneling. weren't the blings intended to be upgraded (mutated) in the playable hots missions? its just like u had to upgrade some multiplayer stuff for marines in WoL-campaign too.
Gebildete MC's fühln sich untight wenn ich boxe!
Noxblood
Profile Joined February 2011
Norway374 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-10 21:34:15
October 10 2011 21:33 GMT
#995
Delete double post
Life isn't hard, we just suck at it.
Sweepstakes
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States92 Posts
October 10 2011 21:34 GMT
#996
My guess is a lurker that lobs acid bombs instead of shooting spines through the ground.
That strategy was made of balls. - Tasteless
mtn
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
729 Posts
October 10 2011 21:36 GMT
#997
On October 11 2011 06:08 ectonym wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 11 2011 03:56 Zelniq wrote:
______________________

Okay so after writing this post I had a bit of on epiphany:

So the front 2 claw-legs (yes both, see the bottom of this post) are clearly designed for tunneling, probably for tunneling deep into the earth. Notice the extended arm to the claw, with the joint towards the end to allow it to pivot as well.
Now look at the rear claws. MUCH shorter, and no extended 'arms.' However it's still a claw, it can still likely dig somewhat into the earth. But really they're just for movement and keeping it standing. Also notice the 3 spikes jutting from it's belly, also to help a little with the digging.

So my theory is that the front 2 claws will allow it to burrow itself heavily towards the front, submerging its entire head, while the back claws will only burrow a short amount, relative to the front. It would become a sort of siege-like unit that attacks while burrowed. Perhaps the reasoning is that the cannon's recoil is too strong to be used while standing on claws, so it needs to burrow itself to stabilize it, much like a siege tank. So basically while burrowed the only thing above the ground would be its hardened shell-cannon back. Hardened to protect itself of course...

...But then the question lies with the opening or "cannon." It seems as though it would be nearly parallel to the surface, and lay just atop it. What kind of cannon lies just above the ground? Perhaps it's not a cannon (or other such way to shoot something out of it), but then why would they design a hole there? And how would it attack? It's claws aren't designed for attacking, and it has no other visible way to attack. It's no caster, it doesn't just sit there, surely something has to come out of that opening, but what? Something unique, that we haven't seen before perhaps?

Another question that arises is despite being burrowed, wouldn't the shell-cannon be target-able? Meaning you don't need detection to attack it? Not sure..

But anyway I'm still sticking by the front-heavy burrow theory as being the major feature of this new unit.
______________________

so here is what I can gather:

It's obviously not a spellcaster, and the only way it could possibly attack is through that 'cannon' on top of it. The cannon looks beefy, kind of like a shell, although the opening is clearly narrow, it possibly widens towards the back, that part is unclear though.
The cannon is also long and aimed directly forward..clearly attacking ground units, and likely long ranged. Without the ability to attack air, it's just further evidence that it's ground attack is pretty strong, unless the cannon can be pivoted to point upwards, but that seems unlikely as there doesn't appear to be anything to allow it to do that. As for launching banes, well the opening is way too small for that. Note the opening has sharp edges and is clearly rigid.

With 4 claw-like legs that are decently long, it's going to be fairly mobile but not as quick as the 6 legged roach, but certainly not slow like the hydralisk which has to wiggle like a snake. This is my greatest concern, I had really hoped they learned their lesson with the colossus that powerful siege units should not also be mobile, but rather be incredibly immobile like the siege tank/lurker was..basically "controlling space," putting a few units at a ramp or choke and knowing that area was secure.

There is however the chance that it can only attack while burrowed. The "reasoning" could be that above ground it's unable to brace for the recoil of the powerful cannon attack, so it needs to burrow its long claws to root itself firmly.
This idea isn't new of course, as the siege tank functions the exact same way almost and is not unlike the lurker in this respect either. Perhaps the cannon will act more as a shell to protect it while above ground.
Like I said the claws definitely look meant for tunneling, especially with the way the 'arm' extends out to the claw. It certainly was intentional for it to look like it has a strong ability to tunnel. It's unlikely that it can move while burrowed as it lacks the 2 frontal claws that look like they can dig ahead of them, that both the roach/infestor share.
Also Starcraft 2's zerg is the only race out of the "6" (between both games) that lacks any unit that can attack while burrowed, banelings don't quite count.. as all the units that attack while burrowed (banshee, dt, lurker, wraith, ghost) can attack the enemy constantly while invisible and forces defender to get detection. It only seems natural they'd add some unit to do this, and Burrow is zerg's way of being invisible.

It's almost certainly a mutated form of a hydralisk. The head resembles it much too closely, which is the feature you'd assume would remain somewhat the same in a mutation. Also they've said they are replacing/removing units, units that they don't like in its current state. The hydralisk is a great example of an unliked, fairly un-used unit. The question however is that is this new unit something you mutate in-game from the hydralisk, or mutated 'out of game' to replace it? If it mutated in-game they'd have to make some changes to the hydralisk, if I had to guess I'd think this unit just "replaces" the hydralisk, and zerg will get some other new and better unit to be their ground-to-air unit, as well as a replacement to corruptor as their air-to-air unit (they've basically stated the corruptor is gone).

Also, as for why the 2 front legs seem to be different, I agree with this picture:

[image loading]

There's no reason for it to have mismatched front legs, and look at the 3 ridges near the bottom of the leg, they match each other. The rest of the shape matches, and the way it comes to a point towards the top matches as well.



I want to take everything Zelniq said but replace the type of artillery this thing fires. Does anyone remember Razor Plague? (Karune's article where it was mentioned) Here were Razor Plague's abilities: Creates a controllable swarm cloud that deals damage to enemy units inside it.

Given that there was a lot of talk about the sharpness of the 'mouth of the cannon,' might it make sense that this new Zerg creature carries a bunch of tiny creatures in it's sac and that sharp-edged opening is the exit? That would mean the creature would have to burrow (as per Zelniq) to unleash it's attack: the cloud of tiny critters. It could be used as a sort of dark swarm-esque position-grabbing offensive spell. This could be really useful for the Swarm in holding onto positions.

It's an ability Blizzard once already had and could be revived. So....Hydralisk mutation that only attacks while burrowed and uses that sac on it's back to fire Razor Swarm. called it ^^



That's one of the coolest ideas I've heard on the subject ;]

If it's that then I would be happy
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
October 10 2011 21:36 GMT
#998
It could be like an atomic baneling, like the thing on its back is a huge payload and it does splash to armored.
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
ectonym
Profile Joined July 2010
United States147 Posts
October 10 2011 21:36 GMT
#999
On October 11 2011 06:26 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 06:08 ectonym wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 11 2011 03:56 Zelniq wrote:
______________________

Okay so after writing this post I had a bit of on epiphany:

So the front 2 claw-legs (yes both, see the bottom of this post) are clearly designed for tunneling, probably for tunneling deep into the earth. Notice the extended arm to the claw, with the joint towards the end to allow it to pivot as well.
Now look at the rear claws. MUCH shorter, and no extended 'arms.' However it's still a claw, it can still likely dig somewhat into the earth. But really they're just for movement and keeping it standing. Also notice the 3 spikes jutting from it's belly, also to help a little with the digging.

So my theory is that the front 2 claws will allow it to burrow itself heavily towards the front, submerging its entire head, while the back claws will only burrow a short amount, relative to the front. It would become a sort of siege-like unit that attacks while burrowed. Perhaps the reasoning is that the cannon's recoil is too strong to be used while standing on claws, so it needs to burrow itself to stabilize it, much like a siege tank. So basically while burrowed the only thing above the ground would be its hardened shell-cannon back. Hardened to protect itself of course...

...But then the question lies with the opening or "cannon." It seems as though it would be nearly parallel to the surface, and lay just atop it. What kind of cannon lies just above the ground? Perhaps it's not a cannon (or other such way to shoot something out of it), but then why would they design a hole there? And how would it attack? It's claws aren't designed for attacking, and it has no other visible way to attack. It's no caster, it doesn't just sit there, surely something has to come out of that opening, but what? Something unique, that we haven't seen before perhaps?

Another question that arises is despite being burrowed, wouldn't the shell-cannon be target-able? Meaning you don't need detection to attack it? Not sure..

But anyway I'm still sticking by the front-heavy burrow theory as being the major feature of this new unit.
______________________

so here is what I can gather:

It's obviously not a spellcaster, and the only way it could possibly attack is through that 'cannon' on top of it. The cannon looks beefy, kind of like a shell, although the opening is clearly narrow, it possibly widens towards the back, that part is unclear though.
The cannon is also long and aimed directly forward..clearly attacking ground units, and likely long ranged. Without the ability to attack air, it's just further evidence that it's ground attack is pretty strong, unless the cannon can be pivoted to point upwards, but that seems unlikely as there doesn't appear to be anything to allow it to do that. As for launching banes, well the opening is way too small for that. Note the opening has sharp edges and is clearly rigid.

With 4 claw-like legs that are decently long, it's going to be fairly mobile but not as quick as the 6 legged roach, but certainly not slow like the hydralisk which has to wiggle like a snake. This is my greatest concern, I had really hoped they learned their lesson with the colossus that powerful siege units should not also be mobile, but rather be incredibly immobile like the siege tank/lurker was..basically "controlling space," putting a few units at a ramp or choke and knowing that area was secure.

There is however the chance that it can only attack while burrowed. The "reasoning" could be that above ground it's unable to brace for the recoil of the powerful cannon attack, so it needs to burrow its long claws to root itself firmly.
This idea isn't new of course, as the siege tank functions the exact same way almost and is not unlike the lurker in this respect either. Perhaps the cannon will act more as a shell to protect it while above ground.
Like I said the claws definitely look meant for tunneling, especially with the way the 'arm' extends out to the claw. It certainly was intentional for it to look like it has a strong ability to tunnel. It's unlikely that it can move while burrowed as it lacks the 2 frontal claws that look like they can dig ahead of them, that both the roach/infestor share.
Also Starcraft 2's zerg is the only race out of the "6" (between both games) that lacks any unit that can attack while burrowed, banelings don't quite count.. as all the units that attack while burrowed (banshee, dt, lurker, wraith, ghost) can attack the enemy constantly while invisible and forces defender to get detection. It only seems natural they'd add some unit to do this, and Burrow is zerg's way of being invisible.

It's almost certainly a mutated form of a hydralisk. The head resembles it much too closely, which is the feature you'd assume would remain somewhat the same in a mutation. Also they've said they are replacing/removing units, units that they don't like in its current state. The hydralisk is a great example of an unliked, fairly un-used unit. The question however is that is this new unit something you mutate in-game from the hydralisk, or mutated 'out of game' to replace it? If it mutated in-game they'd have to make some changes to the hydralisk, if I had to guess I'd think this unit just "replaces" the hydralisk, and zerg will get some other new and better unit to be their ground-to-air unit, as well as a replacement to corruptor as their air-to-air unit (they've basically stated the corruptor is gone).

Also, as for why the 2 front legs seem to be different, I agree with this picture:

[image loading]

There's no reason for it to have mismatched front legs, and look at the 3 ridges near the bottom of the leg, they match each other. The rest of the shape matches, and the way it comes to a point towards the top matches as well.



I want to take everything Zelniq said but replace the type of artillery this thing fires. Does anyone remember Razor Plague? (Karune's article where it was mentioned) Here were Razor Plague's abilities: Creates a controllable swarm cloud that deals damage to enemy units inside it.

Given that there was a lot of talk about the sharpness of the 'mouth of the cannon,' might it make sense that this new Zerg creature carries a bunch of tiny creatures in it's sac and that sharp-edged opening is the exit? That would mean the creature would have to burrow (as per Zelniq) to unleash it's attack: the cloud of tiny critters. It could be used as a sort of dark swarm-esque position-grabbing offensive spell. This could be really useful for the Swarm in holding onto positions.

It's an ability Blizzard once already had and could be revived. So....Hydralisk mutation that only attacks while burrowed and uses that sac on it's back to fire Razor Swarm. called it ^^

Zelniq's cannon idea can't be true seeing as that's basically a siege tank and Blizzard have been trying to keep units from each race diverse as possible. Your razor cloud idea, however, might just be what the unit does.


I agree. A normal siege type unit from the zerg that fires any sort of conventional artillery (spines, banelings whatever) that also has to stop and enter a stationary 'mode' -- is way too similar to the Tank. That's why I'm hoping for a Zerg-y take on the idea with the razor cloud idea. There is almost no doubt in my mind that, whatever this thing does, it has to stop and burrow before it attacks.
I cannot be what I am so I become money, quarter by quarter, and live as long as I can live. "Why I Play Video Games," by Tony Barnstone. check out my design website, ectonym.com
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-10 21:38:01
October 10 2011 21:37 GMT
#1000
On October 11 2011 06:33 TaktiDerBlonde wrote:
hmm now i also think its just a upgraded baneling. weren't the blings intended to be upgraded in the playable hots missions? its just like u had to upgrade some multiplayer stuff for marines in WoL-campaign too.


Making it a baneling upgrade would make the total unit production time absurd.

In my Zergy wet-dream, the hydra is moving to hatch tech, and this is a roachalisk morph. I still think I'm right about there being two holes, not one, in the abdomen.
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
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