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This was recently revealed on the Bnet forums and I didn't see any other thread discussing this:
The Season 3 lock will go into effect the week of October 10th. Season 3 will officially end, and Season 4 will begin on the week of October 24th. Season milestone rewards will be locked in at this time, and bonus pools will start over. Hidden skill ratings used for matchmaking and league placement will carry over from the previous season, so players who have completed placement matches in a previous season will only need to play one new placement match after Season 4 starts.
Also interesting to note two new changes to the seasons:
-Seasons will only last two months
-GM league placement will last only a week
What do you all think of this?
Personally, I'm against shorter seasons. As someone who can't afford more than an hour or so of StarCraft per week day, and maybe a few hours per weekend, I feel like I've gotten nothing accomplished. I'm top in my division, but I almost feel cheated that it's ending so soon.
Link to main article: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3279043205
EDIT: In a separate article (which is referenced in the one linked above), Blizz explains why they prefer shorter seasons:
Players have fairly consistently tended to exhibit more activity during the first eight weeks of a season. It's not unreasonable to conclude from that pattern that a shorter season will also lead to a more dynamic season, since a greater number of players are likely to be active.
Basically they have noticed that players are more active within the first eight weeks of a season. I guess their idea is that by chopping off what they believe to be the "not as active" end of the season, they can encourage more steady laddering. I'm not so sure that this is the best way to do it. I'm still waiting for those Bnet ladder tournaments that they promised years ago...
Link to sub article: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3229387002#4
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so.. does the MMR still change while the ladder is locked or will it stay the same?
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There's already a discussion about shorter seasons.
I'm against it, but whatever, don't care. Will make going from Bronze to Masters harder again.
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On October 04 2011 14:06 clayn wrote:
so.. does the MMR still change while the ladder is locked or will it stay the same?
will still change.
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Wow seasons are like 9 months long and starcraft 2 seasons are now 2 months long?
Going from one extreme to another.
I think 5 - 6 months is good, but w/e blizzard is blizzard.
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Man I didn't even spend all my bonus points yet. ><"
I really don't like shorter sessions.. 2 months is way too little.
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Cool,
I wonder what map blizz will choose for season 4
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On October 04 2011 14:08 Tippecanoe wrote:
Wow seasons are like 9 months long and starcraft 2 seasons are now 2 months long?
Going from one extreme to another.
I think 5 - 6 months is good, but w/e blizzard is blizzard.
First season was just the initial one when people were buying the game. It was naturally longer to compensate.
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On October 04 2011 14:11 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:08 Tippecanoe wrote:
Wow seasons are like 9 months long and starcraft 2 seasons are now 2 months long?
Going from one extreme to another.
I think 5 - 6 months is good, but w/e blizzard is blizzard.
First season was just the initial one when people were buying the game. It was naturally longer to compensate.
I think he means traditional seasons in sports (i.e. Basketball and football)... I don't know, however. I don't watch those sports.
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Blizzard is probably just testing out the 2 month thing. If it is really that bad they'll just change it. People worry too much before a change actually happens
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On October 04 2011 14:13 HungShark wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:11 Torte de Lini wrote:On October 04 2011 14:08 Tippecanoe wrote:
Wow seasons are like 9 months long and starcraft 2 seasons are now 2 months long?
Going from one extreme to another.
I think 5 - 6 months is good, but w/e blizzard is blizzard.
First season was just the initial one when people were buying the game. It was naturally longer to compensate. I think he means traditional seasons in sports (i.e. Basketball and football)... I don't know, however. I don't watch those sports.
he said WoW, just didn't finish the capitalization.
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On October 04 2011 14:14 Wren wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:13 HungShark wrote:On October 04 2011 14:11 Torte de Lini wrote:On October 04 2011 14:08 Tippecanoe wrote:
Wow seasons are like 9 months long and starcraft 2 seasons are now 2 months long?
Going from one extreme to another.
I think 5 - 6 months is good, but w/e blizzard is blizzard.
First season was just the initial one when people were buying the game. It was naturally longer to compensate. I think he means traditional seasons in sports (i.e. Basketball and football)... I don't know, however. I don't watch those sports. he said WoW, just didn't finish the capitalization.
My mistake. That makes more sense.
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Lame. This means that the TL map contest entries wont make the seasonal cutoff and we will have to wait at least 3 months for them to be implemented.
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I suppose the 2 month season is motivation to play more and use up bonus points
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Hopefully they get rid of Searing Crater, because I dislike the feeling of knowing I'm using a veto.
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On October 04 2011 14:05 HungShark wrote:This was recently revealed on the Bnet forums and I didn't see any other thread discussing this: Show nested quote +. Hidden skill ratings used for matchmaking and league placement will carry over from the previous season, so players who have completed placement matches in a previous season will only need to play one new placement match after Season 4 starts. Personally, I'm against shorter seasons. As someone who can't afford more than an hour or so of StarCraft per week day, and maybe a few hours per weekend, I feel like I've gotten nothing accomplished. I'm top in my division, but I almost feel cheated that it's ending so soon. Link to main article: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3279043205
It doesnt affect you in the slightest and you should be happy. If you are in the top of your division you actually might get a promotion once the placements of the new season comes unless you were already in masters. If you were already in masters and were playing 1 hr a week at ranking one .... then dare i say it maybe you will get to gm lol.
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On October 04 2011 14:07 Torte de Lini wrote:
There's already a discussion about shorter seasons.
I'm against it, but whatever, don't care. Will make going from Bronze to Masters harder again.
not really, seeing as mmr carries over
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They could atleast lower the lock by a few days to a week realtive to the shorter season change.
2 weeks of lock and 2 months of a full season? ><
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The length of the season does not matter anyway. If you were good enough to place first in your league, then you should be happy. New season may mean a promotion. And if it does not, then you should be good enough to be back on top in a week or two no?
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WAYYY too soon, Ive only played like 70 games this season 
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Honestly, though, the only practical effect of shorter seasons is a more dynamic map pool. Anything else is completely a non-game related issue.
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On October 04 2011 14:17 slicknav wrote:
I suppose the 2 month season is motivation to play more and use up bonus points
I really don't understand the argument that wiping out everyone's progress every 2 months is going to motivate people to play. Personally, it feels like one more reason to stop caring about the ladder. Why don't they just display everyone's MMR and be done with it? I guess because people can't handle variance...
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I would like the 2 month season idea if they had completely new maps each season. Not blizzard maps of course, good maps.
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If MMR carries over what's the point of having a new season...everyone will end up where they were the previous season anyway...
Much prefer MMR reset.
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Shorter season = more dynamic map pool. I like it.
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On October 04 2011 14:23 BigBadBeaver wrote:
If MMR carries over what's the point of having a new season...everyone will end up where they were the previous season anyway...
Much prefer MMR reset.
they say it's to give people incentive to play more games =/
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Um... maybe im the only one that thinks this... but who cares?... seasons get you nothing... ?????
Now if they gave us an overall ranking ffs it would mean something!
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Look from the bright side guys. Shorter seasons means = more maps and maybe user created maps. Half of the new maps are not even used right now in major tournament.
BTW. They could replace Tal Darim now and add some newer good stuff. Bel'Shir is the most wanted on my list.
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On October 04 2011 14:08 Tippecanoe wrote:
WoW seasons are like 9 months long and starcraft 2 seasons are now 2 months long?
Going from one extreme to another.
I think 5 - 6 months is good, but w/e blizzard is blizzard.
WoW seasons need more work to start them. New arena gear, new arena rewards. Maybe more, I'm not sure.
An SC2 season doesn't really need anything except someone to flick a couple of switches to freeze demotion/promotion and then reset everyone's rankings.
They could do a new season every 2 days if they wanted to.
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If you actually look through the thread on the bnet forums there's a post from a blue saying people tend to play more during the first 8 weeks of a new season or something like that which means if the seasons are shorter there will be more active players and a more vibrant, dynamic ladder season all around. i personally am against shorter seasons but i also like the fact that there might be more competition from more players this time around.
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On October 04 2011 14:13 HungShark wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:11 Torte de Lini wrote:On October 04 2011 14:08 Tippecanoe wrote:
Wow seasons are like 9 months long and starcraft 2 seasons are now 2 months long?
Going from one extreme to another.
I think 5 - 6 months is good, but w/e blizzard is blizzard.
First season was just the initial one when people were buying the game. It was naturally longer to compensate. I think he means traditional seasons in sports (i.e. Basketball and football)... I don't know, however. I don't watch those sports.
I'm pretty sure that he said Wow as in World of Warcraft seasons (blizz's other game) which are long (typically not 9 months but still)
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On October 04 2011 14:05 HungShark wrote:This was recently revealed on the Bnet forums and I didn't see any other thread discussing this: Show nested quote +The Season 3 lock will go into effect the week of October 10th. Season 3 will officially end, and Season 4 will begin on the week of October 24th. Season milestone rewards will be locked in at this time, and bonus pools will start over. Hidden skill ratings used for matchmaking and league placement will carry over from the previous season, so players who have completed placement matches in a previous season will only need to play one new placement match after Season 4 starts. Also interesting to note two new changes to the seasons: -Seasons will only last two months -GM league placement will last only a weekWhat do you all think of this? Personally, I'm against shorter seasons. As someone who can't afford more than an hour or so of StarCraft per week day, and maybe a few hours per weekend, I feel like I've gotten nothing accomplished. I'm top in my division, but I almost feel cheated that it's ending so soon. Link to main article: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3279043205
what does this mean
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On October 04 2011 14:20 unit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:07 Torte de Lini wrote:
There's already a discussion about shorter seasons.
I'm against it, but whatever, don't care. Will make going from Bronze to Masters harder again. not really, seeing as mmr carries over
Dropping to bronze obviously.
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i love short seasons
you don't have to use up that 1.5k bonus pool. and it's refreshing and constantly changing.
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One week to qualify directly for Grandmasters?
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On October 04 2011 14:29 Azide wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:05 HungShark wrote:This was recently revealed on the Bnet forums and I didn't see any other thread discussing this: The Season 3 lock will go into effect the week of October 10th. Season 3 will officially end, and Season 4 will begin on the week of October 24th. Season milestone rewards will be locked in at this time, and bonus pools will start over. Hidden skill ratings used for matchmaking and league placement will carry over from the previous season, so players who have completed placement matches in a previous season will only need to play one new placement match after Season 4 starts. Also interesting to note two new changes to the seasons: -Seasons will only last two months -GM league placement will last only a weekWhat do you all think of this? Personally, I'm against shorter seasons. As someone who can't afford more than an hour or so of StarCraft per week day, and maybe a few hours per weekend, I feel like I've gotten nothing accomplished. I'm top in my division, but I almost feel cheated that it's ending so soon. Link to main article: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3279043205 what does this mean
It means it'll be only a week before gm is implemented, as opposed to the usual 2
At first I wasn't really a fan of shorter seasons but I thought about it and it doesn't really that much. If the season was a month longer, you wouldn't play better or worse
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On October 04 2011 14:29 Azide wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:05 HungShark wrote:This was recently revealed on the Bnet forums and I didn't see any other thread discussing this: The Season 3 lock will go into effect the week of October 10th. Season 3 will officially end, and Season 4 will begin on the week of October 24th. Season milestone rewards will be locked in at this time, and bonus pools will start over. Hidden skill ratings used for matchmaking and league placement will carry over from the previous season, so players who have completed placement matches in a previous season will only need to play one new placement match after Season 4 starts. Also interesting to note two new changes to the seasons: -Seasons will only last two months -GM league placement will last only a weekWhat do you all think of this? Personally, I'm against shorter seasons. As someone who can't afford more than an hour or so of StarCraft per week day, and maybe a few hours per weekend, I feel like I've gotten nothing accomplished. I'm top in my division, but I almost feel cheated that it's ending so soon. Link to main article: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3279043205 what does this mean
it means that the period where the top 200 players are selected via their MMR is now only 1 week instead of 2. So GM will come a week earlier
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As long as they use these short seasons to freshen up the map pool with more balanced and tournament used maps then I'm all for it. I honestly don't put much stock into leagues/divisions since the only thing that matter is my MMR.
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On October 04 2011 14:31 HenryZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:29 Azide wrote:On October 04 2011 14:05 HungShark wrote:This was recently revealed on the Bnet forums and I didn't see any other thread discussing this: The Season 3 lock will go into effect the week of October 10th. Season 3 will officially end, and Season 4 will begin on the week of October 24th. Season milestone rewards will be locked in at this time, and bonus pools will start over. Hidden skill ratings used for matchmaking and league placement will carry over from the previous season, so players who have completed placement matches in a previous season will only need to play one new placement match after Season 4 starts. Also interesting to note two new changes to the seasons: -Seasons will only last two months -GM league placement will last only a weekWhat do you all think of this? Personally, I'm against shorter seasons. As someone who can't afford more than an hour or so of StarCraft per week day, and maybe a few hours per weekend, I feel like I've gotten nothing accomplished. I'm top in my division, but I almost feel cheated that it's ending so soon. Link to main article: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3279043205 what does this mean It means it'll be only a week before gm is implemented, as opposed to the usual 2 At first I wasn't really a fan of shorter seasons but I thought about it and it doesn't really that much. If the season was a month longer, you wouldn't play better or worse
it means no new players have a chance to get GM.
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United States12235 Posts
On October 04 2011 14:23 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:17 slicknav wrote:
I suppose the 2 month season is motivation to play more and use up bonus points I really don't understand the argument that wiping out everyone's progress every 2 months is going to motivate people to play. Personally, it feels like one more reason to stop caring about the ladder. Why don't they just display everyone's MMR and be done with it? I guess because people can't handle variance...
Because once bonus pool reaches a certain point it becomes too high for the average user to want to spend. If the bonus pool were a more manageable number then people would play more. That's no doubt why the accrual rate changed in 1.3 and no doubt why seasons are shorter going forward.
New seasons are also exciting for a lot of players so they can see where they'll place.
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I'm all for the GM change, but I still think 3 month seasons would be better. Go get some community made maps, Blizzard!
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United States12235 Posts
On October 04 2011 14:32 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:31 HenryZ wrote:On October 04 2011 14:29 Azide wrote:On October 04 2011 14:05 HungShark wrote:This was recently revealed on the Bnet forums and I didn't see any other thread discussing this: The Season 3 lock will go into effect the week of October 10th. Season 3 will officially end, and Season 4 will begin on the week of October 24th. Season milestone rewards will be locked in at this time, and bonus pools will start over. Hidden skill ratings used for matchmaking and league placement will carry over from the previous season, so players who have completed placement matches in a previous season will only need to play one new placement match after Season 4 starts. Also interesting to note two new changes to the seasons: -Seasons will only last two months -GM league placement will last only a weekWhat do you all think of this? Personally, I'm against shorter seasons. As someone who can't afford more than an hour or so of StarCraft per week day, and maybe a few hours per weekend, I feel like I've gotten nothing accomplished. I'm top in my division, but I almost feel cheated that it's ending so soon. Link to main article: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3279043205 what does this mean It means it'll be only a week before gm is implemented, as opposed to the usual 2 At first I wasn't really a fan of shorter seasons but I thought about it and it doesn't really that much. If the season was a month longer, you wouldn't play better or worse it means no new players have a chance to get GM.
Why does it mean that?
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Seasons don't really matter with where you are placed. If you were on the verge of going up a league and could have done it with your next win, that's still going to be the case. It's just motivation to keep certain people coming back to the game sooner. I know a few people who stopped playing for a bit and were just waiting for the next season. Now that next season comes quicker. I don't see how it changes anything other than getting faster updates to maps and the map pool.
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On October 04 2011 14:08 Tippecanoe wrote:
Wow seasons are like 9 months long and starcraft 2 seasons are now 2 months long?
Going from one extreme to another.
I think 5 - 6 months is good, but w/e blizzard is blizzard.
Wow seasons are long because they have to match the gear up with the next tier of raiding as to keep raiding as the best source of PvE gear.
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Maybe I should start laddering...
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This is good. Seasons only affect GM players, and shorter seasons keep the GM pool fresh.
For the rest of us, it really doesn't matter.
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On October 04 2011 14:32 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:31 HenryZ wrote:On October 04 2011 14:29 Azide wrote:On October 04 2011 14:05 HungShark wrote:This was recently revealed on the Bnet forums and I didn't see any other thread discussing this: The Season 3 lock will go into effect the week of October 10th. Season 3 will officially end, and Season 4 will begin on the week of October 24th. Season milestone rewards will be locked in at this time, and bonus pools will start over. Hidden skill ratings used for matchmaking and league placement will carry over from the previous season, so players who have completed placement matches in a previous season will only need to play one new placement match after Season 4 starts. Also interesting to note two new changes to the seasons: -Seasons will only last two months -GM league placement will last only a weekWhat do you all think of this? Personally, I'm against shorter seasons. As someone who can't afford more than an hour or so of StarCraft per week day, and maybe a few hours per weekend, I feel like I've gotten nothing accomplished. I'm top in my division, but I almost feel cheated that it's ending so soon. Link to main article: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3279043205 what does this mean It means it'll be only a week before gm is implemented, as opposed to the usual 2 At first I wasn't really a fan of shorter seasons but I thought about it and it doesn't really that much. If the season was a month longer, you wouldn't play better or worse it means no new players have a chance to get GM.
I assume you mean the longer season makes getting gm tougher, which makes a shorter season better for those who want gm? Imo getting a gm icon to say your mmr is at that level as opposed to being in master league with the same mmr makes no difference; best thing to do is to keep playing to improve and eventually you'll get what's coming.
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On October 04 2011 14:34 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:32 Sfydjklm wrote:On October 04 2011 14:31 HenryZ wrote:On October 04 2011 14:29 Azide wrote:On October 04 2011 14:05 HungShark wrote:This was recently revealed on the Bnet forums and I didn't see any other thread discussing this: The Season 3 lock will go into effect the week of October 10th. Season 3 will officially end, and Season 4 will begin on the week of October 24th. Season milestone rewards will be locked in at this time, and bonus pools will start over. Hidden skill ratings used for matchmaking and league placement will carry over from the previous season, so players who have completed placement matches in a previous season will only need to play one new placement match after Season 4 starts. Also interesting to note two new changes to the seasons: -Seasons will only last two months -GM league placement will last only a weekWhat do you all think of this? Personally, I'm against shorter seasons. As someone who can't afford more than an hour or so of StarCraft per week day, and maybe a few hours per weekend, I feel like I've gotten nothing accomplished. I'm top in my division, but I almost feel cheated that it's ending so soon. Link to main article: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3279043205 what does this mean It means it'll be only a week before gm is implemented, as opposed to the usual 2 At first I wasn't really a fan of shorter seasons but I thought about it and it doesn't really that much. If the season was a month longer, you wouldn't play better or worse it means no new players have a chance to get GM. Why does it mean that?
I believe he meant "now" rather than "no"
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New seasons are also exciting for a lot of players so they can see where they'll place.
On the other hand, it's discouraging for a lot of players because all of their hard work in the previous season will be wiped clean.
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3 month seasons are best, why cant blizzard learn from iccup ! :D
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More chances for maps to be rotated out is fine by me. I don't see how people think 2 months isn't enough time to spend BP. If you can't spend 2 months worth of BP in 2 months time I don't see how you think you'll spend 5 months worth of BP in 5 months time.
Not to mention it is incentive to play more games. New season with new standings means people get a "fresh start". That seems more friendly than having a triple digit bonus pool looking at a ladder that you'll never be near the top of since the top players would have to be real good and play a lot consistently than you.
Plus an MMR reset would be very annoying to deal with like it was when the game released. The last thing TL needs is a new forum topic created every 30 minutes about how someone is playing people too hard or too easy but are in the same division as their hard/easy opponents only because not enough games have been played by people to put their MMR to where it should be in respect to everyone else. I say if you want to keep MMR but not have new seasons you need to get rid of bonus pool and have an ICCUP type ladder system. It would eventually be annoying to have posts like "7,300 masters here.." not to mention having a universal ladder system would be easier to track skill and get rid of all these people who take ranking too much into account when determining how good someone is and all the division tiers and all that crap.
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Does it mean new maps? Yes, time to get excited!!
...only to be disappointed once again by new, still god awful maps.
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i'm COMPLETELY for it. You need to recycle GMs. If we have 6 month seasons, so many GMs at the end of 6 months will be STALE and won't have deserved to be there for a very long time, but can't be demoted for a long long time because of longer seasons.
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Id like to know if we get new maps
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Honestly I wish they would just remove the whole "bonus pool" idea
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The only thing I am upset about is that I have to spend so much f*cking time figuring out my Win/Loss ratio. I think if they were going to do what they did then they should have made it so people could changing it themselves. I wish I would have stayed in Diamond as well after all the hard work of making it there but school>SC2 :S
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Oh god, that's so fast.. I'd really like season length for at least 3 months...
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On October 04 2011 14:15 DeltruS wrote:
Lame. This means that the TL map contest entries wont make the seasonal cutoff and we will have to wait at least 3 months for them to be implemented.
I agree that the timing is bad. Also the 2 months season means they will rotate maps out a lot. This will be good on one hand because a lot of people will potentially have their maps played but on the other hand if your map only stays up 2 months people will hardly take it seriously. I would assume Blizzard would rotate out a map after 6-8 months hopefully with the season system. 2 months seems very short for a ladder season. I think they will change it.
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Milestone rewards? what does that mean? Do they mean that no matter how many more points you get, you'll still have the same milestone? (league icon?) huh?
Anyways, 2 months? o.o I prefer 3 months but i don't care too much. But yeah I think 3 months is better =/
Edit:
Oh, shorter season does mean more map changes though. Which means possibly more new maps (community? GSL?)
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On October 04 2011 14:44 Imperfect1987 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:15 DeltruS wrote:
Lame. This means that the TL map contest entries wont make the seasonal cutoff and we will have to wait at least 3 months for them to be implemented. I agree that the timing is bad. Also the 2 months season means they will rotate maps out a lot. This will be good on one hand because a lot of people will potentially have their maps played but on the other hand if your map only stays up 2 months people will hardly take it seriously. I would assume Blizzard would rotate out a map after 6-8 months hopefully with the season system. 2 months seems very short for a ladder season. I think they will change it.
They never replace the entire map pool to be fair.
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Yeah I agree. Seasons need to stay as they are right now. Maybe GM placement should be reduced to 1 month, but I think the new changes are way too fast.
I mean I feel like 3 months is a pretty good time for a season and 1 month for a GM to change.
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On October 04 2011 14:48 Diablo3 wrote:
Yeah I agree. Seasons need to stay as they are right now. Maybe GM placement should be reduced to 1 month, but I think the new changes are way too fast.
I mean I feel like 3 months is a pretty good time for a season and 1 month for a GM to change.
No shit, 2 weeks were already too long for me to take place @ GM league. I'd be fully satisfied if it would be 3 months season length and 1-2weeks for the spot @ GM :p
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As long as the map pool changes with each season i'll be happy. A couple of new maps every two months sounds very appealing. ICCUP ITHICA PLEASE!!!!
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id be fine with this if the lock wasnt 14 fucking days long. wtf.
Its just wierd, it feels like half the season is in lockdown mode once it comes around.
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i feel weird
i only played 200-300 games in total this season
that's like an all time low for me
also yeah
why is the lock so god damn long? it should be like five days imo
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On October 04 2011 14:34 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:32 Sfydjklm wrote:On October 04 2011 14:31 HenryZ wrote:On October 04 2011 14:29 Azide wrote:On October 04 2011 14:05 HungShark wrote:This was recently revealed on the Bnet forums and I didn't see any other thread discussing this: The Season 3 lock will go into effect the week of October 10th. Season 3 will officially end, and Season 4 will begin on the week of October 24th. Season milestone rewards will be locked in at this time, and bonus pools will start over. Hidden skill ratings used for matchmaking and league placement will carry over from the previous season, so players who have completed placement matches in a previous season will only need to play one new placement match after Season 4 starts. Also interesting to note two new changes to the seasons: -Seasons will only last two months -GM league placement will last only a weekWhat do you all think of this? Personally, I'm against shorter seasons. As someone who can't afford more than an hour or so of StarCraft per week day, and maybe a few hours per weekend, I feel like I've gotten nothing accomplished. I'm top in my division, but I almost feel cheated that it's ending so soon. Link to main article: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3279043205 what does this mean It means it'll be only a week before gm is implemented, as opposed to the usual 2 At first I wasn't really a fan of shorter seasons but I thought about it and it doesn't really that much. If the season was a month longer, you wouldn't play better or worse it means no new players have a chance to get GM. Why does it mean that?
because there is less time to get the needed MMR? doh?
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United States12235 Posts
On October 04 2011 15:05 Sfydjklm wrote:because there is less time to get the needed MMR? doh?
Someone can create a new account and start playing GM-level players in like 30 games. Considering the GM requirement is based on MMR moving average, then buffer in however many games for the moving average interval on top of that (40 total games? 45? 50?). One week is plenty of time for a new player to get into GM.
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No one else is wondering, why the season starts 1 day after Blizzcon?
There might be a special reason (HotS Beta incoming *caugh*) for this week
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I kinda like it, it will make GM change more rapidly
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On October 04 2011 14:22 OptimusYale wrote:WAYYY too soon, Ive only played like 70 games this season
That's your own fault.
Excited for the new season. More GSL maps pleaaaaaaaase.
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Yeah not sure why they want it so short, I would also prefer 3 month seasons...
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switch taldarim out too please, there's so many GSL maps please don't have the same one only, im guessing they don't want to switch out a map like every season though, well please have 2 GSL maps then :D increase bans to 4?
I wonder if blizzard considered, maybe if there were more GSL maps (more importance to play/learn them), then maybe more people would check out GSL? But I'm guessing the lower level players (as in the casual gamers that don't really care about getting better or care about esports) won't care enough to learn a map but just play for fun.
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you guys bitch about everything... its not even game changing if you don't play enough then why the fuck would you care in the first place? Why are you even entitled to an opinion???
User was temp banned for this post.
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wow i will never get into masters...
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do wins during lock count torwards getting those portrait achievements?
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4th season and I still don't have a glue why Blizzard doesn't manages to reset the MMR too -.- it just makes no sense, who cares about points anyway.
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On October 04 2011 15:41 mango_destroyer wrote:
do wins during lock count torwards getting those portrait achievements?
Yes they do. need a map rotation though, and please lets get some GSL maps and Iccup....Im tired of the god awful blizzard maps. Bring in metal without close spawns....maybe we can have a modified Kulas in there...that map is still a great map even with all the balance problems
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On October 04 2011 15:39 robih wrote:
wow i will never get into masters...
Because you dont play enough games to raise your mmr which follows you through seasons and still changes during the lock?? Cos if you are masters level then next season you will play 1 placement and get promoted.
People will use short ladder as an excuse for everything.
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LOL
2 months is way too short.
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I don't understand the point of the ladder lock... shorter seasons are fine but ladder lock makes me not want to play.
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I really do wish there was either a reset MMR button or a reset with each ladder season =(
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3 months is better than 2, but easier GM turnover is good. Of course, this won't make the maps better.
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I`m happy with a new season.
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On October 04 2011 15:47 j3cht wrote:
I really do wish there was either a reset MMR button or a reset with each ladder season =(
Once the ladder locks just dunk like 50games and you'll have an mmr reset.
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On October 04 2011 15:47 j3cht wrote:
I really do wish there was either a reset MMR button or a reset with each ladder season =(
Your MMR is volitile. It doesnt really matter what your previous MMR is. If you win a game with a "Blank" MMR and a "Set" MMR, AFAIK there will be no difference in the resultant MMR.
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I feel like I'm not even used to the new maps yet. Too short of a season in my opinion. Maybe make them 4 months instead but it's not the end of the world.
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Hopefully with the quicker seasons will also bring more maps to the map pool.
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Don't care for a 2week lock, why does there even need to be a lock at all? Why would someone rather be a Top 8 diamond than a Top 30 master?
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On October 04 2011 15:49 Techno wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 15:47 j3cht wrote:
I really do wish there was either a reset MMR button or a reset with each ladder season =( Your MMR is volitile. It doesnt really matter what your previous MMR is. If you win a game with a "Blank" MMR and a "Set" MMR, AFAIK there will be no difference in the resultant MMR.
I believe the idea is that the mmr is much more volatile with a lower amount of games so people have this crazy idea that they are being held back by the 500games they played before they got "better"
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More than anything, its an excuse to change the map pool.
Wonder what maps they will pick.
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For the people arguing against the shorter seasons, i'm curious what the problem is? it doesn't effect your MMR - you'll still change leagues just as quickly (aside from the one week lock), if not quicker, due to inactives being sorted out at the beginning of a season.
I just don't really see a downside.
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On October 04 2011 15:54 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 15:49 Techno wrote:On October 04 2011 15:47 j3cht wrote:
I really do wish there was either a reset MMR button or a reset with each ladder season =( Your MMR is volitile. It doesnt really matter what your previous MMR is. If you win a game with a "Blank" MMR and a "Set" MMR, AFAIK there will be no difference in the resultant MMR. I believe the idea is that the mmr is much more volatile with a lower amount of games so people have this crazy idea that they are being held back by the 500games they played before they got "better"
No I don't think I am being held back by my 500 games, but say I want to switch from Zerg to Terran, I am currently diamond zerg but maybe gold terran. I don't want to have to dunk games to get to a level where I can begin the learning process with terran, instead It would be nice if i could simply reset my MMR and then start learning terran from scratch instead of from my zergs MMR till it drops low enough
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Wtf is happening to those uber short "seasons"??? Those should last at least 6 moths, jesus.
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On October 04 2011 15:59 j3cht wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 15:54 NotSorry wrote:On October 04 2011 15:49 Techno wrote:On October 04 2011 15:47 j3cht wrote:
I really do wish there was either a reset MMR button or a reset with each ladder season =( Your MMR is volitile. It doesnt really matter what your previous MMR is. If you win a game with a "Blank" MMR and a "Set" MMR, AFAIK there will be no difference in the resultant MMR. I believe the idea is that the mmr is much more volatile with a lower amount of games so people have this crazy idea that they are being held back by the 500games they played before they got "better" No I don't think I am being held back by my 500 games, but say I want to switch from Zerg to Terran, I am currently diamond zerg but maybe gold terran. I don't want to have to dunk games to get to a level where I can begin the learning process with terran, instead It would be nice if i could simply reset my MMR and then start learning terran from scratch instead of from my zergs MMR till it drops low enough
The problem with resetting MMR is that people with higher skill will just continually reset their MMR and terrorize bronze league. It'll just cause lower league players to quit the game out of frustration i'm sure.
Just play Terran until you start playing people of similar skill, or buy a new account.
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Personally, I think the changes are good for people who don't have as much time to play.
Lower bonus pool (under master league) and shorter seasons means that players who play less are still able to stay relatively competitive within the division to players who play a lot more.
Also the quicker GM league is good (and having it "reset" more often will help the complaints about getting locked out).
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Will there be new maps, or are we stuck with season 3 maps for another season?
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On October 04 2011 16:11 clazzi wrote:
Will there be new maps, or are we stuck with season 3 maps for another season?
no sign of new maps.... hopefully a couple maps get removed so we can veto more >
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it's not going to change who i play against so... who cares?
though, i'm really hoping for some fresh blood in the map pool.
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On October 04 2011 15:49 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 15:47 j3cht wrote:
I really do wish there was either a reset MMR button or a reset with each ladder season =( Once the ladder locks just dunk like 50games and you'll have an mmr reset.
I just wanted to emphasis this. This is a great idea for people who want to swap races but not tank this season's standings.
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Based on the changes made to Terminus RE recently,
I think we'll see a Terminus LE soon.
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On October 04 2011 16:31 Turo wrote:that IS scary...
No it is not. We don't have a single clue regarding the evolution of the number of games during the previous months, all we see here is less games made throughout the month of september.
Oh wait, school anyone ?
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6 seaons a year, i like this change. Also nice that gm gets cycled more so people have a better change of getting in.
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yea i agree seasons are too short = /
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On October 04 2011 15:25 Iatrik wrote:
No one else is wondering, why the season starts 1 day after Blizzcon?
There might be a special reason (HotS Beta incoming *caugh*) for this week
Probably expecting a spike in activity. A pile up in bonus pool would probably stomp that out quickly.
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The length of the season doesn't matter, you're still going to be playing the same amount of games as you did before, and so did everyone else.
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I've shouted this till my voice was hoarse but I guess I'll just say it one more time:
Real competitive smart players want to see their skill measured in an objective way. Blizzard: Show me the MMR!! Show me my real ELO rating so I can see my progress magically reflected in a number. I want the truth!
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New maps for new season? I hope so, some of the current pool is pretty shit.
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Yes being able to see your MMR and real ELO rating would be so much better than the current system
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
Anything new in S4? Maybe in terms of maps (one still can hope ^^).
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United States97276 Posts
I thought the 3 month seasons were fine. I think the GM change is good. More people have a chance
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well this is good, get some time ti improve in 1v1 and then give season 4 a good bash!!! Coming back form inactivity sucks!!!
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On October 04 2011 16:55 ReaperX wrote:
The length of the season doesn't matter, you're still going to be playing the same amount of games as you did before, and so did everyone else.
Unless people usually play more at the beginning and end of a season... having a higher frequency will increase overall games.
EDIT: I'm not saying 2 months is better than 3 or w/e, but 2 or 3 months is a lot better than 6 or 8 months. At some point having more seasons will not bring in more games because people will stop caring that a season is starting/ending.
Also, if they continue to introduce new maps with each season it will also encourage more play.
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good change, 3 month long seasons were just a stupid idea by blizzard
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Season length is kind of irrelevant when your MMR is preserved through the seaosns. Just pick up where you last left off. I think this is actually better in some cases, because it forces the system to assign you to a division at that instance of MMR. If you're teetering between two leagues, this might be the break you're looking for.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37024 Posts
On October 04 2011 14:15 HungShark wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:14 Wren wrote:On October 04 2011 14:13 HungShark wrote:On October 04 2011 14:11 Torte de Lini wrote:On October 04 2011 14:08 Tippecanoe wrote:
Wow seasons are like 9 months long and starcraft 2 seasons are now 2 months long?
Going from one extreme to another.
I think 5 - 6 months is good, but w/e blizzard is blizzard.
First season was just the initial one when people were buying the game. It was naturally longer to compensate. I think he means traditional seasons in sports (i.e. Basketball and football)... I don't know, however. I don't watch those sports. he said WoW, just didn't finish the capitalization. My mistake. That makes more sense.
Lol. Wow and WoW make a world of a difference when trying to say something.
Regarding the topic:
I am acutally very excited for the new season to start. It will give me a chance to make sure I can mass game and keep my bonus pool low. Time to start mass gaming again
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I suppose my best guess is that people's MMR numbers aren't released publicly because Blizzard is afraid of being caught using a statistically flawed system. So, instead, we are given numbers are kind of indicative of our skill, but obviously flawed in order hide the true issues with the ranking system. The second idea that I had is that Blizzard just thinks everyone is too stupid to understand the meaning of an ELO rating so they dumbed the system down.
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Sc2ranks was down for me a while ago. Maybe it doesnt record stats when the site isnt working? If not then that is pretty shocking but there are alot of streams to watch these days.
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I think 3 months would have been better, 4 seasons a year, that makes more sense
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maybe thats just me but I've played this season, the fewest games
mostly because the maps are just boring
i would prefer much more to have maps like in the gsl/mlg etc.
because i watch them all the time
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The ladder lock is too long.
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I think if the season is only going to be 2 months long that they should have a 1 week lock period, rather than 2. I mean, as it stands the lock is 25% of the length of the actual season...seem's kinda stupid to me.
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On October 04 2011 14:35 MrMotionPicture wrote:
Maybe I should start laddering...
I believe blizz has short seasons to make people think like the quoted
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
I'm so close to being promoted I'm sure of it. I like the shorter seasons though. I just need to get promoted by the 10th ^^
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I think asking for a more straight-forward ranking system is really a pipe dream.
Just look at what they've been doing to APM.
Before, it was a really simple measurement. Sure, you can spam to increase APM, but for the people who tried to use it honestly, it had a lot of functionality.
To be honest, if they're worried about newer players being discouraged at the sight of their rank, losses or low APM, just put in an unintuitive was of enabling both so that the casual player will never turn them on. Just like closing a Facebook account... lol.
But it all seems to fit into the mentality that Blizzard has taken towards some things lately. You either play their way, or you don't play at all. That should be the motto Bnet 2.0.
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On October 04 2011 16:31 Turo wrote:that IS scary...
Not really, it only tells you about the games played in a month, and that the number of games played spikes on weekends (duh!). the slope in total games is probably attributed to school. A graph for all months might be more useful.
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Does our hidden MMR continue to increase even with the lock going on ?
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On October 04 2011 18:11 NMH wrote:
Does our hidden MMR continue to increase even with the lock going on ?
MMR acts as normal.
OT: I hate the ladder lock, been on the edge of masters for ~3 weeks, now I have to hurry to still get there.
Why do they lock the ladder anyways?
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Funny Thread, as the change to a 2 months cycle was announced on TL.net the reaction have been mainly positive or neutral. Now its too sooooon 
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On October 04 2011 18:01 Whalecore wrote:
So much ladder lock!!
it will be more frequent, but half as long!
as to someone asking why they lock ladder - it allows players to try to mass games to both burn their bonus pool and move within the division without worrying about getting promoted/demoted and losing non bonus pool points earned. (promotion/demotion will simply occur at the start of the next season).
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wow, this def feels pretty short.
W/e, I think this helps people who are stuck in the lower leagues and deserve to be higher, but feel that they are spending to much time on trying to get higher.
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this should allow GM to rotate players more often, and plus the map pool should change.
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On October 04 2011 18:50 emc wrote:
this should allow GM to rotate players more often, and plus the map pool should change.
I think a rotating map pool would be awesome. Especially if they had polls on their website encouraging players to actively vote in/out the maps they want (Do it by league)
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On October 04 2011 18:35 jnc wrote:it will be more frequent, but half as long! as to someone asking why they lock ladder - it allows players to try to mass games to both burn their bonus pool and move within the division without worrying about getting promoted/demoted and losing non bonus pool points earned. (promotion/demotion will simply occur at the start of the next season).
did they say they were cutting it?
i thought it was staying at 2 weeks?
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well, the huge drop of the number can be easily explain, the sc2 hype has faded
i have so many friends whom eithern quit the game completely or being inactive in very long time,
Bn2 is a total failure, and ladder stress has defeated most of them.
Playing 1v1 on ladder on the complet isolated bn2 has proven too much for alot of people.
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I feel like the HotS expansion plays a roll in the length of the ladder seasons atm
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2 month is way too short, blizzard's decision making has became worse and worse
no wonder why so many people simply just quit the game
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3month would feel better imo, 2month is to short
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Why do people have to bitch about this, two months is fine.. It does not change a thing about your promotion/demotion (except for the lockout), the mmr will not be wiped, you will still gain mmr from games during the lockout and so on.. Just look at it as a way to evaluate your progress after the two months.
Shorter seasons are in my opinion just great, there's nothing negative with it, hopefully this means that the map pool will be updated more frequently.
It will NOT affect your mmr in any way, you just wont be promoted during the lockout, but you will after if you have been proven worthy.
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And just when I started to play again after taking a few months off from laddering!
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Actually, if you're on the edge of being promoted, the new season ought to help you because winning the 1 placement match may be the bump you need to get up into the next league.
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On October 04 2011 19:14 IntotheNorth wrote:
2 month is way too short, blizzard's decision making has became worse and worse
no wonder why so many people simply just quit the game
LOL... Source...?
Two month is perfect imo. Not sure what the reason behind the two week lockdown is though.
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On October 04 2011 19:14 IntotheNorth wrote:
2 month is way too short, blizzard's decision making has became worse and worse
no wonder why so many people simply just quit the game
People quit this game, cuz they are not really into it, ie. they are trying it out cuz its a popular game, they play single player, maybe few multiplayer games and then they leave. Its natural for all the games. Sure there are other factors but this one is the biggest i believe.
About the 2 months long seasons, its awesome for me
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On October 04 2011 16:31 Turo wrote:that IS scary...
It's a good example of why plotting something without thinking about the data set you're drawing from can tell you totally the wrong thing.
What you're seeing in those plots is pretty much just how long it takes sc2ranks to update its data. Today's numbers are near 0 because sc2ranks takes a few weeks to visit all the profiles, with only the top-ranked profiles visited daily.
That means that sc2ranks has collected data for almost none of the games played today. It's collected more data for the games played a week ago, and even more for those played two weeks ago. The number for October 4th is going to climb slowly over the next few weeks as sc2ranks hits more profiles.
The number of actual games played is probably dropping off to some extent, but that's not the reason those plots are dropping to 0 over the last two weeks -- it's just that sc2ranks takes a long time to collect all the data about a given day's games played.
Edit: Looking at my (Gold league) profile right now, sc2ranks last updated my 1v1 ranking information 11 hours ago, but the last time it gathered my individual game history was September 8th. That was a month ago.
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The shorter duration is fine, it allows them to experiment with more map types and sort out the bad/unbalanced ones sooner. although i fear that the general idea will be gotta get more rocks mang!
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Well, I think the season time is to short,I would be fine with every 4 months starts a new season,so 3 seasons per year, although grandmaster's season's should end/begin every new month,so only the real activ players with the highest mmr play in grandmaster.
Just ma thoughts.
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Russian Federation304 Posts
i like it, hope for new maps, especially some good map for protoss
right now here no good, only horrible or maps where protoss can play without big disadvantage
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I really don't like this idea of a 2 month season =/
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At least we'll probably have new (decent?) maps.
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On October 04 2011 19:44 ODKStevez wrote:
I really don't like this idea of a 2 month season =/
Neither do I I hope they change their mind 2 months is too fast and given the fact that I can almost only play during weekends that's gonna be tougher to go in master
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On October 04 2011 19:47 StateAlchemist wrote:
At least we'll probably have new (decent?) maps.
I wouldn't count on hit, but I hope they at least remove some of the new maps they added for season 3. Some of them where pretty horrible, Searing Crater comes to mind.
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Nice, so i will have to play a match again to get into a league... according to my experiences, every time i play a placement, i get into one lower league than before, so bronze, here i come!!! (started from plat)
Hope i can play more games from january though, but thats one or two seasons more :D
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On October 04 2011 14:23 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:17 slicknav wrote:
I suppose the 2 month season is motivation to play more and use up bonus points I really don't understand the argument that wiping out everyone's progress every 2 months is going to motivate people to play. Personally, it feels like one more reason to stop caring about the ladder. Why don't they just display everyone's MMR and be done with it? I guess because people can't handle variance...
Soo true!
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I like the idea of quarters much better.... a 3 month season is perfect. Four seasons a year, just feels better and makes finishing at the top of your ladder more meaningful.
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If they put new decent maps i would be happy for the upcoming season 4...'cause at the moment i vetoed all the new ones (except antiga...i finished the veto! :D ). I want to play in the same maps of the pros (I know, im not a good player but ... :D )
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I really hope they add new maps, I'm really getting tired of this maps as P, need some maps that are good for us, atm there are none.
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i kinda wish seasons were 3 months as opposed to 2 months, especially if it's going to take 2 weeks just to get the new season started and then a week while ladder is locked, meaning that if they decide to do 2month seasons then with the current schedule 3 weeks of that 2 months goes to ladder being locked and GM undecided lol. but its cool, because it helps you get promoted faster if you are playing well and doesn't change your MMR. It helps people who are stuck in leagues make the jump up if they've been playing well
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Does anyone know if they're still going to be locking the ladder for two whole weeks every season?
Seems kind of ridiculous to have the ladder locked two weeks every two months.
As it is, 2 months seems too short. I would go for 3 months, leaning more towards four than two.
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On October 04 2011 19:14 IntotheNorth wrote:
2 month is way too short, blizzard's decision making has became worse and worse
no wonder why so many people simply just quit the game
Can't see what's wrong with a better turn around of maps. Blizzards decision making seems fine.
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I hope we see some map-changes, more change in the map-pool would be great.
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On October 04 2011 21:44 Sith Inquisitor wrote:
I hope we see some map-changes, more change in the map-pool would be great.
YOU ARE A GENIUS SIR!
seriously, this is the best reason for doing this. Yes we might not get enough games, but it shouldn't really matter anyway, stop worrying about achievements people love the game!
But if we get new maps every 2 months, then I have completely changed my opinion of this whole thing. Only if we get new maps...............
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What, already? Getting close to masters but won't make it before the lock I'm afraid:/
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Rather unfortunate, given that I would have loved to play a few more ladder games to in so doing get a shot at promotion to the next league, but it seems I will not be able to do that in one week from now. These season changes, albeit occasionally frustrating, are refreshing for the most part and as someone stated above could pose more map changes, which would be a great addition. Just as long Blizzard make some changes in the new season, I will remain happy
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On October 04 2011 21:51 ZaaaaaM wrote:
What, already? Getting close to masters but won't make it before the lock I'm afraid:/
Maybe you'll get promoted at the season change, who knows? 
If you're lucky you will get the promotion, since it happened with me at the start of this season, therefore there may well be a chance.
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Well, I'm a lil happy n a lil sad, the map pool needs to keep changing so that's great for the game, but personally I hoped to reach diamond before this season ended. I suppose I can be content with having no bonus pool for the first time ever, and being #1 plat, close enough I guess.
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I like the idea of a 2 month season, especially if the maps change up for each of them.
I agree it's a bit odd to have a 2 week lock with every one as well. Hopefully they reduce that to a week at most.
Wonder if this time I can keep my bonus pool at 0...
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yeh nice
Im really into short seasons since it makes up for much more competition
for example if every 2 months a good master player gets a new chance to get into grandmaster and fullifll his sc2 dream then he will of course will play much more and also the pros will play more ladder since they obviously want to be in gm and also it will get more and more attractive as a practice tool when ladder gets more competitive
EDIT: and of course the scrappy maps get rotated out faster
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I like the shorter seasons, allows the ladders to rebalance, because even now half the people on my ladder page are inactive, and they can introduce new maps that are hopefully better than the ones we have now.
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Blah, 2 month seasons means nothing to diamond and below. I don't have the time to play enough to be in the top of my diamond division even if the seasons were 3-5 months long. I do, however, wonder if they are doing this to shake up the top 200 every couple of months. I don't mind resetting the ladder points but for tournaments that use the ladder for entry requirements you should be able to get exemptions based on last seasons ladder and not just the current one.
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On October 04 2011 22:32 YarNhoj wrote:
Blah, 2 month seasons means nothing to diamond and below. I don't have the time to play enough to be in the top of my diamond division even if the seasons were 3-5 months long. I do, however, wonder if they are doing this to shake up the top 200 every couple of months. I don't mind resetting the ladder points but for tournaments that use the ladder for entry requirements you should be able to get exemptions based on last seasons ladder and not just the current one.
i dont konw of any tournament that uses ladder rankings as a criteria for players that want to participate
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One thing I noticed is that a 2-month season doesn't really allow a semi-inactive player (or casual) to drain their bonus pool in a week of mass gaming, or actually match their points with their MMR. Not that it matters, because you can always see your progress by checking active players' profiles that you face, and seeing their points etc., but it's still going to mess with accurate ranking statistics, I imagine.
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Daybreak for ladder!
In a more serious manner, I think 2 months is too short. 3 months would be better.
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is this for the EU servers as well?
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On October 04 2011 22:53 Rk0 wrote:
is this for the EU servers as well?
yes all servers
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I actually had the patience too browse through all pages and saw most posts were variants of "2 months is too short it should be x months" with no explanantions and "ladder lock is too long" . I still fail to understand why it matters how long is the season, since you'll be placed in the same league and about the ladder lock.. if you win a lot of games during that , your MMR should burst up and get you promoted soon after the ladder unlocks .
The only real problem I see is for some people that work ( why? ) for gathering ladder points and won't be top 8 when the new season begins ..
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Don't like the 2 months cycle. It might backfire to just increase the frequency of seasons to artificially increase player activities. Players might not like the pressure to play more regularly and/or it probably will devalue the worth of a season league placement because it will be (mostly) meaningless in two months.
Don't know 100% how GM league works, but 1) this affects very few people and 2) players will probably be the same as the season before because the MMR shouldn't be way off in the top (as mass games improves ladder accuracy). Inactive players will drop from GM midseason anyways and players that are shortly before berthing into it will try getting into it and know where they stand in the first place.
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I dont see the point in having so much seasons... just to have a nice icon in my profile? I would agree if bnet 2.0 would have an auto tourney thing like wc3, for now its pointless to have short seasons like that
the only good reason are the maps rotation, but they can change them in the patches ...
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Is Bnet down because of this ? Cant sign on.
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Canada13389 Posts
Man these seasons are gonna be short. How am I ever reliably going to get into and stay in master league at this rate :S
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2 months a season feels a bit short. More seasons means more ladder lockdowns. No one likes to play when the ladders are locked.
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We should do something against shorter seasons. Petition or special thread or anything else.
Blizzard should listen to us.
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On October 05 2011 00:27 darkness wrote:
We should do something against shorter seasons. Petition or special thread or anything else.
Blizzard should listen to us.
please don't .... if you do we will never get map rotation changes
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Short seasons are fine, but 2week lock downs are bad and are not needed at all.
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Whew I might ladder next season 8D
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time for more 2 player maps so i can cheese, please?
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Strange. If every season is ≈8 weeks and the ladder lock time is 2 weeks, then 20% of all gaming time is within the ladder lock. Seems not very attractive to me.
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Maybe the ladder lock is going to be shorter for next season since it is going to be 2 months long? Come on guys give Blizzard a break. The duration of a season isn't going to change the fact of you sucking or you being good. If you truly are master level then you can become masters within any given time, if you truly are bronze level then you will stay bronze level.
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90% of the posters in this thread claim that they dislike a 2 month season. And none of them bother to say why....
MMR stays the same.
Lockout is short.
GM players will rotate in and out faster.
New maps are good.
What the fuck are people complaining about? Seasons could be 1 month long and it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference.
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2 months? WTF?
I was fine with 6 month seasons. This is bullshit.
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the season restart is also to sort out the inactive players, thats what i like about new seasons. when i played company of heroes a year ago. I was ranked around top 10000 although most people were inactive
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Hopefully shorter ladder seasons will teach people how meaningless their rank actually is so they can focus on getting better instead of what color their badge is.
Doubt it though.
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I am loving it.
200 games a season should be enough.
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On October 05 2011 00:41 ayaz2810 wrote:
90% of the posters in this thread claim that they dislike a 2 month season. And none of them bother to say why....
MMR stays the same.
Lockout is short.
GM players will rotate in and out faster.
New maps are good.
What the fuck are people complaining about? Seasons could be 1 month long and it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference.
Agreed, but cursing is uncalled for. chill.
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On October 04 2011 14:07 Torte de Lini wrote:
There's already a discussion about shorter seasons.
I'm against it, but whatever, don't care. Will make going from Bronze to Masters harder again.
No it will not? Your MMR still changes while locked.
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The ladder is mostly pointless/meaningless, none of the things you can see mean anything/matter unless you are GM then you have an actual rank.
The match making system will still work the same throughout so you will still get good matches against people of the same skill.
It doesn't affect your ability to improve. At all. Stop with the "oh no I'll be bronze forever now QQ".
If they were regularly resetting an ELO ladder and using ELO points for match making I could understand people being upset. But that's not what's happening.
The best thing is that more resets give blizzard more chances to accidentally improve the map pool, and it makes GM more up to date which reduces some of the problems with it (though locking it is still stupid).
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If seasons will be shorter, they shouldn't lock down the ladder for 2 weeks at a time. Imagine 2 months of open ladder and then 2 weeks of lock down over and over again. They should cut the lock down to a week.
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On October 05 2011 00:05 ZeromuS wrote:
Man these seasons are gonna be short. How am I ever reliably going to get into and stay in master league at this rate :S
i am seeing in this thread that many high diamonds are complaining about short seasons.
nothing will change for people like you, except maybe a few more inactive master players will play more so you will have to improve quicker to be within the best 2% of active players.
also, you complain about not getting into master , where obviously it's nobody's fault but yours. you demand to be one of the 2% best players on your server but obviously arent. whats wrong with you? maybe it is also your attitude standing in your way to get yourself into master league
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On October 05 2011 01:13 ZwuckeL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:05 ZeromuS wrote:
Man these seasons are gonna be short. How am I ever reliably going to get into and stay in master league at this rate :S i am seeing in this thread that many high diamonds are complaining about short seasons. nothing will change for people like you, except maybe a few more inactive master players will play more so you will have to improve quicker to be within the best 2% of active players. also, you complain about not getting into master , where obviously it's nobody's fault but yours. you demand to be one of the 2% best players on your server but obviously arent. whats wrong with you? maybe it is also your attitude standing in your way to get yourself into master league
Well it's kind of frustrating to need to have a mid masters mmr to get promoted even if one is better than low/inactive masters. They should do entire ladder resets IMO instead of shorter seasons which are just intended to weed out " inactive," many of whom simply play one game and sit in masters and never touch it again.
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On October 05 2011 01:13 ZwuckeL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:05 ZeromuS wrote:
Man these seasons are gonna be short. How am I ever reliably going to get into and stay in master league at this rate :S i am seeing in this thread that many high diamonds are complaining about short seasons. nothing will change for people like you, except maybe a few more inactive master players will play more so you will have to improve quicker to be within the best 2% of active players. also, you complain about not getting into master , where obviously it's nobody's fault but yours. you demand to be one of the 2% best players on your server but obviously arent. whats wrong with you? maybe it is also your attitude standing in your way to get yourself into master league
That's partially untrue. I don't know about other players, but as a player constantly battling for the #1 spot in my division, I think it would have been safe to expect that I would be matched up against other high diamond players, as well as a constant barrage of low masters. I have seen the exact opposite. I'm constantly faced against lower diamond players. I doubt it's my MMR since I usually stomp these players. However, all season I've been matched up with "even" matches or lower.
Out of the 460+ games I've played this season, I've faced only FIVE masters. I won all of those matches. Something's buggy with the matchmaking system.
As for your other comment about the shorter seasons, I'm not blaming shorter seasons for my lack of promotion. I'm blaming shorter seasons for my sudden discouragement to continue laddering, since all the work I put into laddering will simply be wiped clean before I can get anything show-worthy. I think three months was short enough already, but TWO?! That's just too short.
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I think that's a good ginhg- it will make for more map rotation, so one day we can have a decent ladder map pool. (I'm not complaining against imba maps - but look at the TPW ones and the Blizzard ones, they don't really seem to care about making good maps)
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i like the idea of the short season. why?
first i am high eu master. if every season is as long as the last one i can compare my points and my actual rank (sc2ranks) and see at least the improvement in case of points and actual rank.
the promoting thing can be a reason for some playes but i don't think it will change anything for them as long as the locked ladder end will last for the maximum of 1 week.
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On October 05 2011 01:32 HungShark wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:13 ZwuckeL wrote:On October 05 2011 00:05 ZeromuS wrote:
Man these seasons are gonna be short. How am I ever reliably going to get into and stay in master league at this rate :S i am seeing in this thread that many high diamonds are complaining about short seasons. nothing will change for people like you, except maybe a few more inactive master players will play more so you will have to improve quicker to be within the best 2% of active players. also, you complain about not getting into master , where obviously it's nobody's fault but yours. you demand to be one of the 2% best players on your server but obviously arent. whats wrong with you? maybe it is also your attitude standing in your way to get yourself into master league That's partially untrue. I don't know about other players, but as a player constantly battling for the #1 spot in my division, I think it would have been safe to expect that I would be matched up against other high diamond players, as well as a constant barrage of low masters. I have seen the exact opposite. I'm constantly faced against lower diamond players. I doubt it's my MMR since I usually stomp these players. However, all season I've been matched up with "even" matches or lower. Out of the 460+ games I've played this season, I've faced only FIVE masters. I won all of those matches. Something's buggy with the matchmaking system. As for your other comment about the shorter seasons, I'm not blaming shorter seasons for my lack of promotion. I'm blaming shorter seasons for my sudden discouragement to continue laddering, since all the work I put into laddering will simply be wiped clean before I can get anything show-worthy. I think three months was short enough already, but TWO?! That's just too short.
don't forget you are getting a milestone icon for season 3 displaying your achieved ladder rank. so it's not really gone forever like you said. also your mmr isn't reset as you know. so waht excatly are you referring to as "your work you put into laddering is simply being wiped"?
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so glad theyre making seasons shorter =)
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i dont understand why people think shorter season makes it harder to get promoted, bronze-silver, diamond-masters, etc. Your MMR is never reset so if you keep playing and improving youll get to the level you should be at regardless when blizzard arbitrarily says 'ok season over.'
can someone enlighten me why it's going to be harder to rank up? :O
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On October 05 2011 01:32 HungShark wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:13 ZwuckeL wrote:On October 05 2011 00:05 ZeromuS wrote:
Man these seasons are gonna be short. How am I ever reliably going to get into and stay in master league at this rate :S i am seeing in this thread that many high diamonds are complaining about short seasons. nothing will change for people like you, except maybe a few more inactive master players will play more so you will have to improve quicker to be within the best 2% of active players. also, you complain about not getting into master , where obviously it's nobody's fault but yours. you demand to be one of the 2% best players on your server but obviously arent. whats wrong with you? maybe it is also your attitude standing in your way to get yourself into master league That's partially untrue. I don't know about other players, but as a player constantly battling for the #1 spot in my division, I think it would have been safe to expect that I would be matched up against other high diamond players, as well as a constant barrage of low masters. I have seen the exact opposite. I'm constantly faced against lower diamond players. I doubt it's my MMR since I usually stomp these players. However, all season I've been matched up with "even" matches or lower. Out of the 460+ games I've played this season, I've faced only FIVE masters. I won all of those matches. Something's buggy with the matchmaking system. As for your other comment about the shorter seasons, I'm not blaming shorter seasons for my lack of promotion. I'm blaming shorter seasons for my sudden discouragement to continue laddering, since all the work I put into laddering will simply be wiped clean before I can get anything show-worthy. I think three months was short enough already, but TWO?! That's just too short.
You probably go 50/50 with the players at your level (diamond) atm. If you're really masters level you should go like 30:4 vs Diamond players and then you will be promoted. On a new account it took me 25 games to get into masters (25:0).
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I think it is great to reset these season so fast. Reason is I lose my will to play after 2 months of playing, so more chances to be GM more chances to get higher ranked and get your name out there try and find sponsors and try to make it as a pro gamers. I think this is a great idea.
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Really guys, shorter seasons only means that the Bonus Pool will not get out of control. Your MMR will continue to grow, also hopefully more varied Map pool.
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Why can't they just show mmr so that we do not have people calling themselves "high master" when they are only high in points and are matching up with diamonds on ladder? Kinda kills the point of having these fancy titles.
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Sorry if this has been answered, but does anyone know what happens to an account if the placement match for this season wasn't played, and a new season starts?
My account was Master league in S2 and I haven't been motivated to ladder at all in S3(placement not played etc). When S4 starts will my MMR totally reset or will it use my S2 placement instead?
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On October 05 2011 02:50 pt wrote:
Why can't they just show mmr so that we do not have people calling themselves "high master" when they are only high in points and are matching up with diamonds on ladder? Kinda kills the point of having these fancy titles.
High master typically means no bonus pool, which means that Points are directly correlated with player skill. MMR can still fluctuate (you lose 10 in a row you will be playing diamonds).
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On October 05 2011 02:50 pt wrote:
Why can't they just show mmr so that we do not have people calling themselves "high master" when they are only high in points and are matching up with diamonds on ladder? Kinda kills the point of having these fancy titles.
Short seasons make this less of an issue, because there will be smaller bonus pools and people will have an easier time keeping up with bonus points.
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On October 05 2011 02:54 Resilient wrote:
Sorry if this has been answered, but does anyone know what happens to an account if the placement match for this season wasn't played, and a new season starts?
My account was Master league in S2 and I haven't been motivated to ladder at all in S3(placement not played etc). When S4 starts will my MMR totally reset or will it use my S2 placement instead?
I doubt it will totally reset but your MMR will definitely be volatile at the start of S4.
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Im happy that the seasons are shorter now.
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Canada13389 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:13 ZwuckeL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:05 ZeromuS wrote:
Man these seasons are gonna be short. How am I ever reliably going to get into and stay in master league at this rate :S i am seeing in this thread that many high diamonds are complaining about short seasons. nothing will change for people like you, except maybe a few more inactive master players will play more so you will have to improve quicker to be within the best 2% of active players. also, you complain about not getting into master , where obviously it's nobody's fault but yours. you demand to be one of the 2% best players on your server but obviously arent. whats wrong with you? maybe it is also your attitude standing in your way to get yourself into master league
I do not demand to be in the top 2%. I have been playing since release which means it takes longer for me to get into masters since my MMR is more stable than if I was to buy a new account. I play regularly against mid ranked master players as of now but have not been promoted yet. With the lock coming if I don't make it into masters in the next week then I am GUARANTEED one week where even if I play a lot I cannot make it into master league and will need to wait to see if my MMR is high enough to get in there. This is after the inactive players are removed.
So this season ending this soon is making it hard on me since I have basically one last week to push into the master league otherwise im not making it in. Thats all. And yeah it will be harder to stay in master league. I can't play every day all day but I do have some personal goals like being in master league by the end of the year. Those of us who are high diamond and are trying for a last push into masters now have a definite time limit for our hard work to pay off within the next week.
After that theres a week where we dont know if the people we are playing that are diamond are also at a master MMR and we just dont know thanks to the ladder lock. this means we could feel bad about playing diamonds which otherwise could be masters.
Not only that but whenever a ladder lock is announced the amount of cheese on ladder triples and that makes it harder to get promoted when you are already on the bubble. I hate playing after a lock is announced because its not fun to play against cheese all day,
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Like many others have said, 2 months is just too short. They should have 3 months with a week (week and a half max, not two weeks) of ladder lock.
I'm pretty sure iCcup runs for around 3 months (Seasons usually last around 14 weeksish? Its a little different every time ofc, but if I remember correct it runs around 3 months).
It would just seem like a better balance. I've played around 300 games in season 3 and I still feel like it just started (started plat, up to diamond). I really wanted to make masters before the season ended, but I just don't have the time during the weekdays to mass game, and am busy this coming weekend Oh wells, masters season 4 I guess!
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Dont really have any issues with it, shouldnt change a thing if MMR still changes but it does put an odd feel on things, i'd like to see 2 things for me to be completely happy.
1) 3 months instead of 2 for seasons - at least give it "some" length.
2) One week imbetween ladder seasons - last time it was like a month or something? even though they said "2 weeks"
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On October 04 2011 22:43 sVnteen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 22:32 YarNhoj wrote:
Blah, 2 month seasons means nothing to diamond and below. I don't have the time to play enough to be in the top of my diamond division even if the seasons were 3-5 months long. I do, however, wonder if they are doing this to shake up the top 200 every couple of months. I don't mind resetting the ladder points but for tournaments that use the ladder for entry requirements you should be able to get exemptions based on last seasons ladder and not just the current one. i dont konw of any tournament that uses ladder rankings as a criteria for players that want to participate
Blizcon invites?
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Personally I cant wait for season 4! I was gold in s1 and plat in s2, now is season 3 im in diamond. Season 4 masters gogo! Dont know if its realistic though since I still never have been matched against a masters player even though I have been in top 5 of my diamond the last 2 weeks.
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This is almost certainly due to the turnaround in leagues. Longer seasons im sure make many casual-competitive players lose interest.
This will also make it more viable (and competitive) to make it into GM.
For those who dont like this, by adding a career page, this is a perfect tool to track progression through seasons.
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On October 05 2011 03:04 sGs.Kal_rA wrote:Like many others have said, 2 months is just too short. They should have 3 months with a week (week and a half max, not two weeks) of ladder lock. I'm pretty sure iCcup runs for around 3 months (Seasons usually last around 14 weeksish? Its a little different every time ofc, but if I remember correct it runs around 3 months). It would just seem like a better balance. I've played around 300 games in season 3 and I still feel like it just started (started plat, up to diamond). I really wanted to make masters before the season ended, but I just don't have the time during the weekdays to mass game, and am busy this coming weekend Oh wells, masters season 4 I guess!
If you are close to Masters, who knows, the new Season could turn out to be a huge boon for you. The Placement could slot your right in where you belong
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I hope this means we will get metalopolis back in the map pool soon
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On October 05 2011 03:11 QTIP. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 03:04 sGs.Kal_rA wrote:Like many others have said, 2 months is just too short. They should have 3 months with a week (week and a half max, not two weeks) of ladder lock. I'm pretty sure iCcup runs for around 3 months (Seasons usually last around 14 weeksish? Its a little different every time ofc, but if I remember correct it runs around 3 months). It would just seem like a better balance. I've played around 300 games in season 3 and I still feel like it just started (started plat, up to diamond). I really wanted to make masters before the season ended, but I just don't have the time during the weekdays to mass game, and am busy this coming weekend Oh wells, masters season 4 I guess! If you are close to Masters, who knows, the new Season could turn out to be a huge boon for you. The Placement could slot your right in where you belong
Agreed, but I feel like its always feels more earned when your get promoted mid season. You never know when its coming, and after grinding a bunch of games the surprise is always welcome. Getting promoted at a placement just feels like a meh. You know your going to get placed, just a matter of where.
I'm not hating on placements, they are unavoidable and needed in the ladder lol.. I'm just saying
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On October 05 2011 03:15 sGs.Kal_rA wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 03:11 QTIP. wrote:On October 05 2011 03:04 sGs.Kal_rA wrote:Like many others have said, 2 months is just too short. They should have 3 months with a week (week and a half max, not two weeks) of ladder lock. I'm pretty sure iCcup runs for around 3 months (Seasons usually last around 14 weeksish? Its a little different every time ofc, but if I remember correct it runs around 3 months). It would just seem like a better balance. I've played around 300 games in season 3 and I still feel like it just started (started plat, up to diamond). I really wanted to make masters before the season ended, but I just don't have the time during the weekdays to mass game, and am busy this coming weekend Oh wells, masters season 4 I guess! If you are close to Masters, who knows, the new Season could turn out to be a huge boon for you. The Placement could slot your right in where you belong Agreed, but I feel like its always feels more earned when your get promoted mid season. You never know when its coming, and after grinding a bunch of games the surprise is always welcome. Getting promoted at a placement just feels like a meh. You know your going to get placed, just a matter of where. I'm not hating on placements, they are unavoidable and needed in the ladder lol.. I'm just saying
No I feel you, getting promoted mid-season is nice. I forgot what it feels like to be honest. I've been in Masters since it came out, and GM is in some far off dream where I also own an Aston Martin... T_T
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Aww yeah season will last "only" 2months. Im already tired on the 2v2 maps so hope they cycle more of them (and better1s that the last!).
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On October 05 2011 03:25 QTIP. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 03:15 sGs.Kal_rA wrote:On October 05 2011 03:11 QTIP. wrote:On October 05 2011 03:04 sGs.Kal_rA wrote:Like many others have said, 2 months is just too short. They should have 3 months with a week (week and a half max, not two weeks) of ladder lock. I'm pretty sure iCcup runs for around 3 months (Seasons usually last around 14 weeksish? Its a little different every time ofc, but if I remember correct it runs around 3 months). It would just seem like a better balance. I've played around 300 games in season 3 and I still feel like it just started (started plat, up to diamond). I really wanted to make masters before the season ended, but I just don't have the time during the weekdays to mass game, and am busy this coming weekend Oh wells, masters season 4 I guess! If you are close to Masters, who knows, the new Season could turn out to be a huge boon for you. The Placement could slot your right in where you belong Agreed, but I feel like its always feels more earned when your get promoted mid season. You never know when its coming, and after grinding a bunch of games the surprise is always welcome. Getting promoted at a placement just feels like a meh. You know your going to get placed, just a matter of where. I'm not hating on placements, they are unavoidable and needed in the ladder lol.. I'm just saying No I feel you, getting promoted mid-season is nice. I forgot what it feels like to be honest. I've been in Masters since it came out, and GM is in some far off dream where I also own an Aston Martin... T_T
This is why I love TL. We have the same dreams <3
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On October 05 2011 03:27 Shagg wrote:
Aww yeah season will last "only" 2months. Im already tired on the 2v2 maps so hope they cycle more of them (and better1s that the last!).
I want an El Nino / GBR remake! 3 player maps ftw!
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shorter seasons do make the GM league more volatile and less of high masters getting frustrated beating top 50 gms, and never being promoted for a long period of time. as the GM league refresh will allow new blood to circulate in the 100-200 rank range of GM much more frequently.
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On October 05 2011 01:40 ZwuckeL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:32 HungShark wrote:On October 05 2011 01:13 ZwuckeL wrote:On October 05 2011 00:05 ZeromuS wrote:
Man these seasons are gonna be short. How am I ever reliably going to get into and stay in master league at this rate :S i am seeing in this thread that many high diamonds are complaining about short seasons. nothing will change for people like you, except maybe a few more inactive master players will play more so you will have to improve quicker to be within the best 2% of active players. also, you complain about not getting into master , where obviously it's nobody's fault but yours. you demand to be one of the 2% best players on your server but obviously arent. whats wrong with you? maybe it is also your attitude standing in your way to get yourself into master league That's partially untrue. I don't know about other players, but as a player constantly battling for the #1 spot in my division, I think it would have been safe to expect that I would be matched up against other high diamond players, as well as a constant barrage of low masters. I have seen the exact opposite. I'm constantly faced against lower diamond players. I doubt it's my MMR since I usually stomp these players. However, all season I've been matched up with "even" matches or lower. Out of the 460+ games I've played this season, I've faced only FIVE masters. I won all of those matches. Something's buggy with the matchmaking system. As for your other comment about the shorter seasons, I'm not blaming shorter seasons for my lack of promotion. I'm blaming shorter seasons for my sudden discouragement to continue laddering, since all the work I put into laddering will simply be wiped clean before I can get anything show-worthy. I think three months was short enough already, but TWO?! That's just too short. don't forget you are getting a milestone icon for season 3 displaying your achieved ladder rank. so it's not really gone forever like you said. also your mmr isn't reset as you know. so waht excatly are you referring to as "your work you put into laddering is simply being wiped"?
I'm referring to all the ladder points I've accumulated, and the constant battle vying for the #1 spot. I appreciate the ladder point system because it helps give me the illusion of where I stand in my "class." Completely resetting it and starting anew is almost like a kid packing up and moving to a new school over and over again. It's disorientating and frankly unnerving to have to start all over again.
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I don't understand this at all.
I followed the link to the bnet article and then found the embedded article describing why seasons were being reduced to 2 months, but still do not understand WHY.
"We feel that this makes a more beneficial experience"
-Response from Blizzard community manager
I guess that's just not good enough for me. As someone who does not have the time to play every day, it's hard to keep up with everyone else especially in a such a small period as 2 months.
Before the patch I was a Top 8 masters player, but I haven't found the time to kill the nearly 300 bonus pool that has accumulated since then. Shortening seasons basically forces people to play constantly instead of picking the game back up when we get the chance.
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So sad over shorter season cos dont play enough. Then again this might just be the inspiration to play a bit more.
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Yay a new season that I will probably be stuck in platinum for because I don't have enough time to get good... Whatever, at least it cleans out the people who quit more frequently. More than half of my division only has like 1-5 wins, and have gigantic bonus pools. The top 25 are people relatively active (IE weekends or a couple nights per week) and the top 8 are people who play enough to burn their bonus pool.
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I think shorter seasons might be a good thing. If we see map rotations every seasons and the turn around of GM every so often, we might see new players rising that couldn't because someone played 24/7 the first 2 weeks.
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I hope I'll get lucky and replace some low Master players next season. Those bastards need to go =P. Honestly if you're just playing to improve your skill and have fun, ladder rank means a lot less. But people judge you immediately based on your league, then it becomes an issue.
I'm tired of condescending players looking down on me. I already acknowledge that I'm not a "Masters" player but my level of skill should not be immediately be thrown out of the window.
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Don't care. MMR doesn't change in between seasons, so it doesn't make the slightest difference.
I'm gonna play that one placement match and regardless of how it ends, I will be Masters afterwards (or whatever league I'm in then)
As there is no league identity anyways ("hey look, I'm in league 'weird name'. I'm always playing against guys of this league and try to become #1")
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8-4... 300 or so points masters... facing 1400-1600 master, and grandmaster with a 900 bonus pool...
Oh lord the grueling journey I am going to undertake.... From 8-4 to 50-64 here we go!!!!
edit -- gotta get over this ladder hatred. I never feel 'warm' and yet somehow I keep winning games I shouldn't. I need to play more, maybe the short season can force that.
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Sigh... this is forcing me to grind out games. Gotta spend that 300+ bonus points I got from getting promoted into Master league T_T.
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On a related note, I saw a few posts on that thread in the Blizz forum by guys claiming that if you skip a season entirely your MMR is reset, i.e. they claim that they did not play a single game in season 2 and when they resumed play during season 3, they had to redo all 5 placement matches.
Can anyone confirm or deny this?
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I like the new shorter seasons. First and foremost, grandmaster league is no longer a stagnant set of players who, for some of them, should be cycled out for another. Another cool part is that season times are more organized and that your career page will be more accurate at how it displays your progress through.
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i don't really care since you always keep your mmr, i just hope maps keep on switching out because i hate playing the same maps for to long
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Seasons are way too quick.
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I honestly hope the vast majority of the maps are switched out for maps from that Blizzard contest or tournament maps (gogo Daybreak!). I would not be sad to see Backwater Gulch, Abyssal Caverns, and Typhon Peaks go. Especially if they brought back Metalopolis instead (perhaps revamped a little, but not too much. No close positions etc.).
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On October 05 2011 05:01 c0ldfusion wrote:
On a related note, I saw a few posts on that thread in the Blizz forum by guys claiming that if you skip a season entirely your MMR is reset, i.e. they claim that they did not play a single game in season 2 and when they resumed play during season 3, they had to redo all 5 placement matches.
Can anyone confirm or deny this?
This is correct. I played during season one but I did not play at all season 2. When I started to play again during season 3 I had to do all 5 placement matches.
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On October 05 2011 05:27 StryderP wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 05:01 c0ldfusion wrote:
On a related note, I saw a few posts on that thread in the Blizz forum by guys claiming that if you skip a season entirely your MMR is reset, i.e. they claim that they did not play a single game in season 2 and when they resumed play during season 3, they had to redo all 5 placement matches.
Can anyone confirm or deny this? This is correct. I played during season one but I did not play at all season 2. When I started to play again during season 3 I had to do all 5 placement matches.
Thank you!
Did your placement matches feel normal, i.e. did not feel like it was leaning towards your old MMR?
Now that seasons are shorter, this could be a cheap way of resetting your MMR - just don't play for 2 months.
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I think it may be a good thing to have shorter seasons.. this is how I envision it working..
Since we sort of agree MRR is a moving target, I think the qty of people actively playing the game effects which ranking certain MMR ranges fall into.
This would mean the shorter season weeds out the newer players quicker.. making the variance in skill between the rankings a bit less diluted.
For instance if Blizzard is trying to maintain certain percentages of its overall populace into different leagues then shorter seasons reduce the qty of inactive players accounting for those percentages. Meaning your ranking will be more accurate to your skill level amongst active players.
I created a quick chart to sort of show what I’m saying.
Let’s say right now there’s 50,000 people who’ve played their placement matches in S3.
Lets also guesstimate Blizzard wishes to maintain 23% of that 50,000 be dedicated to Bronze (12,750 Players in bronze)
If S4 comes along and only 30,000 players have played their placement matches, that 23% shows a lower number of people (7,650 in bronze)
Meaning the MMR would slide accordingly.
My example shows that in S3 a player with 1780 MMR is Platinum, whereas in S4 that MMR has this player in Diamond. Obviously if S4 grows to 50,000 people and the player in the example below never played a game, then he would drop back down in Platinum.
![[image loading]](http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/7968/mmre.jpg)
Of course.. this is all guessing on my part.. I just sort of envision it working this way.
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United States12235 Posts
On October 05 2011 06:09 Ignorant prodigy wrote:I think it may be a good thing to have shorter seasons.. this is how I envision it working.. Since we sort of agree MRR is a moving target, I think the qty of people actively playing the game effects which ranking certain MMR ranges fall into. This would mean the shorter season weeds out the newer players quicker.. making the variance in skill between the rankings a bit less diluted. For instance if Blizzard is trying to maintain certain percentages of its overall populace into different leagues then shorter seasons reduce the qty of inactive players accounting for those percentages. Meaning your ranking will be more accurate to your skill level amongst active players. I created a quick chart to sort of show what I’m saying. Let’s say right now there’s 50,000 people who’ve played their placement matches in S3. Lets also guesstimate Blizzard wishes to maintain 23% of that 50,000 be dedicated to Bronze (12,750 Players in bronze) If S4 comes along and only 30,000 players have played their placement matches, that 23% shows a lower number of people (7,650 in bronze) Meaning the MMR would slide accordingly. My example shows that in S3 a player with 1780 MMR is Platinum, whereas in S4 that MMR has this player in Diamond. Obviously if S4 grows to 50,000 people and the player in the example below never played a game, then he would drop back down in Platinum. Of course.. this is all guessing on my part.. I just sort of envision it working this way.
Nah the MMR boundaries for the leagues are fixed. It's the population that varies, not the league boundaries. MMR isn't a moving target. It's more like this:
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/5w92j.jpg)
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well... forget what I posted! hahaha
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i feel this hurts the players like me, who can only play a few times each week because of work or school or w/e. trying to use up all my bonus pool points seems like a challenge in itself.
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Why are people caring about bonus pool when the method of getting promoted is your MMR?
Did I miss something or has the majority of sc2 players gone full retard?
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So can they finally fix the 2v2 maps next season? Please? Pretty please? None of this Discord IV stuff?
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On October 05 2011 06:33 Thurokiir wrote:
Why are people caring about bonus pool when the method of getting promoted is your MMR?
Did I miss something or has the majority of sc2 players gone full retard?
The "career" page of your profile is based on where you place within your division at the end of the season. So, at least cosmetically speaking, bonus pool does matter.
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On October 05 2011 06:16 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 06:09 Ignorant prodigy wrote:I think it may be a good thing to have shorter seasons.. this is how I envision it working.. Since we sort of agree MRR is a moving target, I think the qty of people actively playing the game effects which ranking certain MMR ranges fall into. This would mean the shorter season weeds out the newer players quicker.. making the variance in skill between the rankings a bit less diluted. For instance if Blizzard is trying to maintain certain percentages of its overall populace into different leagues then shorter seasons reduce the qty of inactive players accounting for those percentages. Meaning your ranking will be more accurate to your skill level amongst active players. I created a quick chart to sort of show what I’m saying. Let’s say right now there’s 50,000 people who’ve played their placement matches in S3. Lets also guesstimate Blizzard wishes to maintain 23% of that 50,000 be dedicated to Bronze (12,750 Players in bronze) If S4 comes along and only 30,000 players have played their placement matches, that 23% shows a lower number of people (7,650 in bronze) Meaning the MMR would slide accordingly. My example shows that in S3 a player with 1780 MMR is Platinum, whereas in S4 that MMR has this player in Diamond. Obviously if S4 grows to 50,000 people and the player in the example below never played a game, then he would drop back down in Platinum. Of course.. this is all guessing on my part.. I just sort of envision it working this way. Nah the MMR boundaries for the leagues are fixed. It's the population that varies, not the league boundaries. MMR isn't a moving target. It's more like this:
Whoa, wait a minute, how would Blizzard maintain the 20/20/20/20/18/2 ratio if MMR boundaries are fixed?
Edit: Nevermind, read the ladder thread again, I guess the MMR is "redistributed".
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On October 05 2011 06:28 BoilOlo wrote:
i feel this hurts the players like me, who can only play a few times each week because of work or school or w/e. trying to use up all my bonus pool points seems like a challenge in itself.
How does this make any difference?
Your bonus pool goes up the longer the season is, so shorter seasons mean there will be less total bonus pool for you to use over a season, so actually being less active should be better after this. I guess you could mean that you need long seasons so that the season overlaps with some holiday time to mass game.
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On October 05 2011 05:27 StryderP wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 05:01 c0ldfusion wrote:
On a related note, I saw a few posts on that thread in the Blizz forum by guys claiming that if you skip a season entirely your MMR is reset, i.e. they claim that they did not play a single game in season 2 and when they resumed play during season 3, they had to redo all 5 placement matches.
Can anyone confirm or deny this? This is correct. I played during season one but I did not play at all season 2. When I started to play again during season 3 I had to do all 5 placement matches.
Does anyone know if this this applies to your entire account, or individual "teams"? I.e. If I play only 2v2s and 3v3s for a full season, would my 1v1 MMR reset? Or if I didn't play on a 2v2 team of mine for a full season, would we have to redo all the placement matches the following season?
I'm guessing this only applies if don't play at all for a full season and all your teams are then reset, but it'd be nice to get clarification.
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On October 05 2011 04:44 Big J wrote:
Don't care. MMR doesn't change in between seasons, so it doesn't make the slightest difference.
I'm gonna play that one placement match and regardless of how it ends, I will be Masters afterwards (or whatever league I'm in then)
As there is no league identity anyways ("hey look, I'm in league 'weird name'. I'm always playing against guys of this league and try to become #1")
The reset of seasons is ridiculous as you said, because your MMR stays exactly the same. I maybe the only guy saying this but your MMR should completely reset every season. Therefore everyone ... Grand Masters to Bronze need to redo their placements and work from there. Blizzards ranking is garbage at this point, just like their APM which is not longer truly APM.
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Since I really only have a noticeable amount of time for video games during breaks (like after a term ends), my bonus pool would grow quite large, so it would help to catch up in points while playing against people at my MMR level.
Despite saying that, I'm not against this change. It's not really a huge deal imo, and if Blizzard sees that it is problematic, they can easily make the following seasons longer.
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United States12235 Posts
On October 05 2011 07:08 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 06:16 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 06:09 Ignorant prodigy wrote:I think it may be a good thing to have shorter seasons.. this is how I envision it working.. Since we sort of agree MRR is a moving target, I think the qty of people actively playing the game effects which ranking certain MMR ranges fall into. This would mean the shorter season weeds out the newer players quicker.. making the variance in skill between the rankings a bit less diluted. For instance if Blizzard is trying to maintain certain percentages of its overall populace into different leagues then shorter seasons reduce the qty of inactive players accounting for those percentages. Meaning your ranking will be more accurate to your skill level amongst active players. I created a quick chart to sort of show what I’m saying. Let’s say right now there’s 50,000 people who’ve played their placement matches in S3. Lets also guesstimate Blizzard wishes to maintain 23% of that 50,000 be dedicated to Bronze (12,750 Players in bronze) If S4 comes along and only 30,000 players have played their placement matches, that 23% shows a lower number of people (7,650 in bronze) Meaning the MMR would slide accordingly. My example shows that in S3 a player with 1780 MMR is Platinum, whereas in S4 that MMR has this player in Diamond. Obviously if S4 grows to 50,000 people and the player in the example below never played a game, then he would drop back down in Platinum. Of course.. this is all guessing on my part.. I just sort of envision it working this way. Nah the MMR boundaries for the leagues are fixed. It's the population that varies, not the league boundaries. MMR isn't a moving target. It's more like this: Whoa, wait a minute, how would Blizzard maintain the 20/20/20/20/18/2 ratio if MMR boundaries are fixed?
The populations aren't enforced. They fluctuate, and sometimes not insignificantly. However, skill always spreads out to cover gaps. I've used this example before, but say there are three players A B C and D, at 1000 1200 1400 and 1600 MMR, respectively. A is 1000 because he loses to the rest. B is at 1200 because he loses to C and D but he still beats A. C is at 1400 because he beats both A and B but loses to D. D is at 1600 because he beats all of them. If C stopped playing:
- B would rise because he isn't losing to C anymore.
- A would rise slightly because the gap between A and B will widen. A is still beating people below him.
- D would fall slightly because as he loses to people above him, he can't sustain his current level because the gap between B and D is wider than the old gap between C and D.
The new distribution might be something closer to 1020 for A, 1350 for B, 1580 for D.
If C came back, he would come back at 1400, his old MMR. Gradually, as all players play more games, skill will spread out again and go back to the old distribution.
Now if you imagine this on a larger scale and with league boundaries, that's going to come with some league fluctuations.
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United States12235 Posts
On October 05 2011 07:12 o29 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 05:27 StryderP wrote:On October 05 2011 05:01 c0ldfusion wrote:
On a related note, I saw a few posts on that thread in the Blizz forum by guys claiming that if you skip a season entirely your MMR is reset, i.e. they claim that they did not play a single game in season 2 and when they resumed play during season 3, they had to redo all 5 placement matches.
Can anyone confirm or deny this? This is correct. I played during season one but I did not play at all season 2. When I started to play again during season 3 I had to do all 5 placement matches. Does anyone know if this this applies to your entire account, or individual "teams"? I.e. If I play only 2v2s and 3v3s for a full season, would my 1v1 MMR reset? Or if I didn't play on a 2v2 team of mine for a full season, would we have to redo all the placement matches the following season? I'm guessing this only applies if don't play at all for a full season and all your teams are then reset, but it'd be nice to get clarification.
It's per "team" so in both your examples, your 1v1 MMR would reset and your 2v2 team with that friend would reset.
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On October 05 2011 07:27 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 07:08 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 05 2011 06:16 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 06:09 Ignorant prodigy wrote:I think it may be a good thing to have shorter seasons.. this is how I envision it working.. Since we sort of agree MRR is a moving target, I think the qty of people actively playing the game effects which ranking certain MMR ranges fall into. This would mean the shorter season weeds out the newer players quicker.. making the variance in skill between the rankings a bit less diluted. For instance if Blizzard is trying to maintain certain percentages of its overall populace into different leagues then shorter seasons reduce the qty of inactive players accounting for those percentages. Meaning your ranking will be more accurate to your skill level amongst active players. I created a quick chart to sort of show what I’m saying. Let’s say right now there’s 50,000 people who’ve played their placement matches in S3. Lets also guesstimate Blizzard wishes to maintain 23% of that 50,000 be dedicated to Bronze (12,750 Players in bronze) If S4 comes along and only 30,000 players have played their placement matches, that 23% shows a lower number of people (7,650 in bronze) Meaning the MMR would slide accordingly. My example shows that in S3 a player with 1780 MMR is Platinum, whereas in S4 that MMR has this player in Diamond. Obviously if S4 grows to 50,000 people and the player in the example below never played a game, then he would drop back down in Platinum. Of course.. this is all guessing on my part.. I just sort of envision it working this way. Nah the MMR boundaries for the leagues are fixed. It's the population that varies, not the league boundaries. MMR isn't a moving target. It's more like this: Whoa, wait a minute, how would Blizzard maintain the 20/20/20/20/18/2 ratio if MMR boundaries are fixed? The populations aren't enforced. They fluctuate, and sometimes not insignificantly. However, skill always spreads out to cover gaps. I've used this example before, but say there are three players A B C and D, at 1000 1200 1400 and 1600 MMR, respectively. A is 1000 because he loses to the rest. B is at 1200 because he loses to C and D but he still beats A. C is at 1400 because he beats both A and B but loses to D. D is at 1600 because he beats all of them. If C stopped playing: - B would rise because he isn't losing to C anymore. - A would rise slightly because the gap between A and B will widen. A is still beating people below him. - D would fall slightly because as he loses to people above him, he can't sustain his current level because the gap between B and D is wider than the old gap between C and D. The new distribution might be something closer to 1020 for A, 1350 for B, 1580 for D. If C came back, he would come back at 1400, his old MMR. Gradually, as all players play more games, skill will spread out again and go back to the old distribution. Now if you imagine this on a larger scale and with league boundaries, that's going to come with some league fluctuations.
Ok gotcha, so the percentages are already "baked in" the MMR.
If that's the case though, then aren't they making an assumption about the distribution? Your graph looks like a normal distribution... is that accurate? Intuitively, I would think something like skill in starcraft 2 would fit better in a distribution with a fat tail.
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I thought Blizzard said they were shortening seasons to 3 months not 2? I think that 2 months is too short and doesn't allow for enough time to rise from the bottom of your ladder to top 8.
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On October 05 2011 07:45 envisioN . wrote:
I thought Blizzard said they were shortening seasons to 3 months not 2? I think that 2 months is too short and doesn't allow for enough time to rise from the bottom of your ladder to top 8.
Heh, they are changing it again.
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United States12235 Posts
On October 05 2011 07:37 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 07:27 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 07:08 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 05 2011 06:16 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 06:09 Ignorant prodigy wrote:I think it may be a good thing to have shorter seasons.. this is how I envision it working.. Since we sort of agree MRR is a moving target, I think the qty of people actively playing the game effects which ranking certain MMR ranges fall into. This would mean the shorter season weeds out the newer players quicker.. making the variance in skill between the rankings a bit less diluted. For instance if Blizzard is trying to maintain certain percentages of its overall populace into different leagues then shorter seasons reduce the qty of inactive players accounting for those percentages. Meaning your ranking will be more accurate to your skill level amongst active players. I created a quick chart to sort of show what I’m saying. Let’s say right now there’s 50,000 people who’ve played their placement matches in S3. Lets also guesstimate Blizzard wishes to maintain 23% of that 50,000 be dedicated to Bronze (12,750 Players in bronze) If S4 comes along and only 30,000 players have played their placement matches, that 23% shows a lower number of people (7,650 in bronze) Meaning the MMR would slide accordingly. My example shows that in S3 a player with 1780 MMR is Platinum, whereas in S4 that MMR has this player in Diamond. Obviously if S4 grows to 50,000 people and the player in the example below never played a game, then he would drop back down in Platinum. Of course.. this is all guessing on my part.. I just sort of envision it working this way. Nah the MMR boundaries for the leagues are fixed. It's the population that varies, not the league boundaries. MMR isn't a moving target. It's more like this: Whoa, wait a minute, how would Blizzard maintain the 20/20/20/20/18/2 ratio if MMR boundaries are fixed? The populations aren't enforced. They fluctuate, and sometimes not insignificantly. However, skill always spreads out to cover gaps. I've used this example before, but say there are three players A B C and D, at 1000 1200 1400 and 1600 MMR, respectively. A is 1000 because he loses to the rest. B is at 1200 because he loses to C and D but he still beats A. C is at 1400 because he beats both A and B but loses to D. D is at 1600 because he beats all of them. If C stopped playing: - B would rise because he isn't losing to C anymore. - A would rise slightly because the gap between A and B will widen. A is still beating people below him. - D would fall slightly because as he loses to people above him, he can't sustain his current level because the gap between B and D is wider than the old gap between C and D. The new distribution might be something closer to 1020 for A, 1350 for B, 1580 for D. If C came back, he would come back at 1400, his old MMR. Gradually, as all players play more games, skill will spread out again and go back to the old distribution. Now if you imagine this on a larger scale and with league boundaries, that's going to come with some league fluctuations. Ok gotcha, so the percentages are already "baked in" the MMR. If that's the case though, then aren't they making an assumption about the distribution? Your graph looks like a normal distribution... is that accurate? Intuitively, I would think something like skill in starcraft 2 would fit better in a distribution with a fat tail.
I'm a little sketchy on what it is in reality (obviously since the best resource we have is SC2Ranks which is limited because it includes all accounts) but from what I've heard, there is a bump in Diamond because of the skill difference between "hardcore" and "casual" players. However, I don't know if that was only for Season 1 and if prior distributions were used for later seasons.
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I keep seeing people say "The season reset will give you a chance to place in a different league". Is the only time you can change leagues at the beginning of a new season? ie during your placement match?
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Does anyone know if the "placement" game you do at the start of the season has more weight than a normal ladder game with respect to being promoted and demoted?
As in, normal promotion and demotion happens after the system is confident your MMR is between boundaries of a certain league. However I noticed from polls posted by people at the beginning of 2nd and 3rd season that a large number of people got either promoted or demoted in their single placement game. How can we explain that (I only have anecdotal evidence though).
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On October 05 2011 07:32 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 07:12 o29 wrote:On October 05 2011 05:27 StryderP wrote:On October 05 2011 05:01 c0ldfusion wrote:
On a related note, I saw a few posts on that thread in the Blizz forum by guys claiming that if you skip a season entirely your MMR is reset, i.e. they claim that they did not play a single game in season 2 and when they resumed play during season 3, they had to redo all 5 placement matches.
Can anyone confirm or deny this? This is correct. I played during season one but I did not play at all season 2. When I started to play again during season 3 I had to do all 5 placement matches. Does anyone know if this this applies to your entire account, or individual "teams"? I.e. If I play only 2v2s and 3v3s for a full season, would my 1v1 MMR reset? Or if I didn't play on a 2v2 team of mine for a full season, would we have to redo all the placement matches the following season? I'm guessing this only applies if don't play at all for a full season and all your teams are then reset, but it'd be nice to get clarification. It's per "team" so in both your examples, your 1v1 MMR would reset and your 2v2 team with that friend would reset.
The all-knowing Excalibur_Z comes through again. Thanks!
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Basically I've played a quarter of games since season 2 and about an eighth since season 1... where did all the time go?
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Hmph. I've played maybe 50 games this season, opposed to the 600~ total. I don't know if I entirely like the shorter seasons. 3 months seems fine. 2 months seems like who gives a shit if you were in Masters once when there are 6 seasons a year.
Edit: I actually oppose seasons longer than three months however! With half year seasons there will be people in divisions with nearly insurmountable points. What motivation do I have to be first in my division if it takes every moment of my life to get there!
[i]Especially when divisions produce widely different results, some with 5000~ 1st or 2nd place and some with 3000 point 1st or 2nd place.
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On October 05 2011 08:03 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 07:37 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 05 2011 07:27 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 07:08 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 05 2011 06:16 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 06:09 Ignorant prodigy wrote:I think it may be a good thing to have shorter seasons.. this is how I envision it working.. Since we sort of agree MRR is a moving target, I think the qty of people actively playing the game effects which ranking certain MMR ranges fall into. This would mean the shorter season weeds out the newer players quicker.. making the variance in skill between the rankings a bit less diluted. For instance if Blizzard is trying to maintain certain percentages of its overall populace into different leagues then shorter seasons reduce the qty of inactive players accounting for those percentages. Meaning your ranking will be more accurate to your skill level amongst active players. I created a quick chart to sort of show what I’m saying. Let’s say right now there’s 50,000 people who’ve played their placement matches in S3. Lets also guesstimate Blizzard wishes to maintain 23% of that 50,000 be dedicated to Bronze (12,750 Players in bronze) If S4 comes along and only 30,000 players have played their placement matches, that 23% shows a lower number of people (7,650 in bronze) Meaning the MMR would slide accordingly. My example shows that in S3 a player with 1780 MMR is Platinum, whereas in S4 that MMR has this player in Diamond. Obviously if S4 grows to 50,000 people and the player in the example below never played a game, then he would drop back down in Platinum. Of course.. this is all guessing on my part.. I just sort of envision it working this way. Nah the MMR boundaries for the leagues are fixed. It's the population that varies, not the league boundaries. MMR isn't a moving target. It's more like this: Whoa, wait a minute, how would Blizzard maintain the 20/20/20/20/18/2 ratio if MMR boundaries are fixed? The populations aren't enforced. They fluctuate, and sometimes not insignificantly. However, skill always spreads out to cover gaps. I've used this example before, but say there are three players A B C and D, at 1000 1200 1400 and 1600 MMR, respectively. A is 1000 because he loses to the rest. B is at 1200 because he loses to C and D but he still beats A. C is at 1400 because he beats both A and B but loses to D. D is at 1600 because he beats all of them. If C stopped playing: - B would rise because he isn't losing to C anymore. - A would rise slightly because the gap between A and B will widen. A is still beating people below him. - D would fall slightly because as he loses to people above him, he can't sustain his current level because the gap between B and D is wider than the old gap between C and D. The new distribution might be something closer to 1020 for A, 1350 for B, 1580 for D. If C came back, he would come back at 1400, his old MMR. Gradually, as all players play more games, skill will spread out again and go back to the old distribution. Now if you imagine this on a larger scale and with league boundaries, that's going to come with some league fluctuations. Ok gotcha, so the percentages are already "baked in" the MMR. If that's the case though, then aren't they making an assumption about the distribution? Your graph looks like a normal distribution... is that accurate? Intuitively, I would think something like skill in starcraft 2 would fit better in a distribution with a fat tail. I'm a little sketchy on what it is in reality (obviously since the best resource we have is SC2Ranks which is limited because it includes all accounts) but from what I've heard, there is a bump in Diamond because of the skill difference between "hardcore" and "casual" players. However, I don't know if that was only for Season 1 and if prior distributions were used for later seasons.
Can you elaborate on this 'bump'? Are you saying there is something artificially placed in Diamond that you must 'get over' regardless or active MMR to differentiate 'hardcore' and 'casual'. Is getting Diamond->Master the hardest promotion? Aside from GM I suppose.
Reading what I typed sounds retarded, ugh. Can you just explain what this diamond 'bump' means?
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On October 05 2011 08:14 FecalFrown wrote:
I keep seeing people say "The season reset will give you a chance to place in a different league". Is the only time you can change leagues at the beginning of a new season? ie during your placement match?
No you can get promoted normally.
The reason why people say that is because they believe that they are in the confidence zone (from the comprehensive ladder thread).
I was always under the impression that placement fares on the conservative side anyway. Although my guess is that people in the boundary zones between seasons are not strictly going down to the lower league. There are reports of players being promoted and demoted on their one placement match.
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On October 05 2011 08:51 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 08:03 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 07:37 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 05 2011 07:27 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 07:08 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 05 2011 06:16 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 06:09 Ignorant prodigy wrote:I think it may be a good thing to have shorter seasons.. this is how I envision it working.. Since we sort of agree MRR is a moving target, I think the qty of people actively playing the game effects which ranking certain MMR ranges fall into. This would mean the shorter season weeds out the newer players quicker.. making the variance in skill between the rankings a bit less diluted. For instance if Blizzard is trying to maintain certain percentages of its overall populace into different leagues then shorter seasons reduce the qty of inactive players accounting for those percentages. Meaning your ranking will be more accurate to your skill level amongst active players. I created a quick chart to sort of show what I’m saying. Let’s say right now there’s 50,000 people who’ve played their placement matches in S3. Lets also guesstimate Blizzard wishes to maintain 23% of that 50,000 be dedicated to Bronze (12,750 Players in bronze) If S4 comes along and only 30,000 players have played their placement matches, that 23% shows a lower number of people (7,650 in bronze) Meaning the MMR would slide accordingly. My example shows that in S3 a player with 1780 MMR is Platinum, whereas in S4 that MMR has this player in Diamond. Obviously if S4 grows to 50,000 people and the player in the example below never played a game, then he would drop back down in Platinum. Of course.. this is all guessing on my part.. I just sort of envision it working this way. Nah the MMR boundaries for the leagues are fixed. It's the population that varies, not the league boundaries. MMR isn't a moving target. It's more like this: Whoa, wait a minute, how would Blizzard maintain the 20/20/20/20/18/2 ratio if MMR boundaries are fixed? The populations aren't enforced. They fluctuate, and sometimes not insignificantly. However, skill always spreads out to cover gaps. I've used this example before, but say there are three players A B C and D, at 1000 1200 1400 and 1600 MMR, respectively. A is 1000 because he loses to the rest. B is at 1200 because he loses to C and D but he still beats A. C is at 1400 because he beats both A and B but loses to D. D is at 1600 because he beats all of them. If C stopped playing: - B would rise because he isn't losing to C anymore. - A would rise slightly because the gap between A and B will widen. A is still beating people below him. - D would fall slightly because as he loses to people above him, he can't sustain his current level because the gap between B and D is wider than the old gap between C and D. The new distribution might be something closer to 1020 for A, 1350 for B, 1580 for D. If C came back, he would come back at 1400, his old MMR. Gradually, as all players play more games, skill will spread out again and go back to the old distribution. Now if you imagine this on a larger scale and with league boundaries, that's going to come with some league fluctuations. Ok gotcha, so the percentages are already "baked in" the MMR. If that's the case though, then aren't they making an assumption about the distribution? Your graph looks like a normal distribution... is that accurate? Intuitively, I would think something like skill in starcraft 2 would fit better in a distribution with a fat tail. I'm a little sketchy on what it is in reality (obviously since the best resource we have is SC2Ranks which is limited because it includes all accounts) but from what I've heard, there is a bump in Diamond because of the skill difference between "hardcore" and "casual" players. However, I don't know if that was only for Season 1 and if prior distributions were used for later seasons. Can you elaborate on this 'bump'? Are you saying there is something artificially placed in Diamond that you must 'get over' regardless or active MMR to differentiate 'hardcore' and 'casual'. Is getting Diamond->Master the hardest promotion? Aside from GM I suppose. Reading what I typed sounds retarded, ugh. Can you just explain what this diamond 'bump' means?
I think he meant between diamond and platinum - this would explain be explained them trying to fit a non-symmetric distribution onto a symmetric one.
Though keep in mind that Blizzard can make changes to MMR related calculations (points lost and won from matches, boundaries, etc) whenever they want. They don't need a patch for something like that. Chances are they probably have taken some measures to correct for this phenomenon considering they always stood by the 20/20/20/20/18/2 breakdown.
Edit: Correction, I don't mean the boundary between plat and diamond. I mean more than the allocated 20% of active population in diamond.
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United States12235 Posts
On October 05 2011 08:51 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 08:03 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 07:37 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 05 2011 07:27 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 07:08 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 05 2011 06:16 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 06:09 Ignorant prodigy wrote:I think it may be a good thing to have shorter seasons.. this is how I envision it working.. Since we sort of agree MRR is a moving target, I think the qty of people actively playing the game effects which ranking certain MMR ranges fall into. This would mean the shorter season weeds out the newer players quicker.. making the variance in skill between the rankings a bit less diluted. For instance if Blizzard is trying to maintain certain percentages of its overall populace into different leagues then shorter seasons reduce the qty of inactive players accounting for those percentages. Meaning your ranking will be more accurate to your skill level amongst active players. I created a quick chart to sort of show what I’m saying. Let’s say right now there’s 50,000 people who’ve played their placement matches in S3. Lets also guesstimate Blizzard wishes to maintain 23% of that 50,000 be dedicated to Bronze (12,750 Players in bronze) If S4 comes along and only 30,000 players have played their placement matches, that 23% shows a lower number of people (7,650 in bronze) Meaning the MMR would slide accordingly. My example shows that in S3 a player with 1780 MMR is Platinum, whereas in S4 that MMR has this player in Diamond. Obviously if S4 grows to 50,000 people and the player in the example below never played a game, then he would drop back down in Platinum. Of course.. this is all guessing on my part.. I just sort of envision it working this way. Nah the MMR boundaries for the leagues are fixed. It's the population that varies, not the league boundaries. MMR isn't a moving target. It's more like this: Whoa, wait a minute, how would Blizzard maintain the 20/20/20/20/18/2 ratio if MMR boundaries are fixed? The populations aren't enforced. They fluctuate, and sometimes not insignificantly. However, skill always spreads out to cover gaps. I've used this example before, but say there are three players A B C and D, at 1000 1200 1400 and 1600 MMR, respectively. A is 1000 because he loses to the rest. B is at 1200 because he loses to C and D but he still beats A. C is at 1400 because he beats both A and B but loses to D. D is at 1600 because he beats all of them. If C stopped playing: - B would rise because he isn't losing to C anymore. - A would rise slightly because the gap between A and B will widen. A is still beating people below him. - D would fall slightly because as he loses to people above him, he can't sustain his current level because the gap between B and D is wider than the old gap between C and D. The new distribution might be something closer to 1020 for A, 1350 for B, 1580 for D. If C came back, he would come back at 1400, his old MMR. Gradually, as all players play more games, skill will spread out again and go back to the old distribution. Now if you imagine this on a larger scale and with league boundaries, that's going to come with some league fluctuations. Ok gotcha, so the percentages are already "baked in" the MMR. If that's the case though, then aren't they making an assumption about the distribution? Your graph looks like a normal distribution... is that accurate? Intuitively, I would think something like skill in starcraft 2 would fit better in a distribution with a fat tail. I'm a little sketchy on what it is in reality (obviously since the best resource we have is SC2Ranks which is limited because it includes all accounts) but from what I've heard, there is a bump in Diamond because of the skill difference between "hardcore" and "casual" players. However, I don't know if that was only for Season 1 and if prior distributions were used for later seasons. Can you elaborate on this 'bump'? Are you saying there is something artificially placed in Diamond that you must 'get over' regardless or active MMR to differentiate 'hardcore' and 'casual'. Is getting Diamond->Master the hardest promotion? Aside from GM I suppose. Reading what I typed sounds retarded, ugh. Can you just explain what this diamond 'bump' means?
It's not artificial, it's a representation of what separates "serious" players (the ones that visit TL, who watch pro streams, who practice a lot) from the "casual" ones (ones that don't keep up with the metagame, who learn on their own, who don't play as often). Again though I don't know if Season 2 leveled that out by using a prior distribution and that info might just apply to Season 1.
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United States12235 Posts
On October 05 2011 09:01 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 08:51 crms wrote:On October 05 2011 08:03 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 07:37 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 05 2011 07:27 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 07:08 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 05 2011 06:16 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 06:09 Ignorant prodigy wrote:I think it may be a good thing to have shorter seasons.. this is how I envision it working.. Since we sort of agree MRR is a moving target, I think the qty of people actively playing the game effects which ranking certain MMR ranges fall into. This would mean the shorter season weeds out the newer players quicker.. making the variance in skill between the rankings a bit less diluted. For instance if Blizzard is trying to maintain certain percentages of its overall populace into different leagues then shorter seasons reduce the qty of inactive players accounting for those percentages. Meaning your ranking will be more accurate to your skill level amongst active players. I created a quick chart to sort of show what I’m saying. Let’s say right now there’s 50,000 people who’ve played their placement matches in S3. Lets also guesstimate Blizzard wishes to maintain 23% of that 50,000 be dedicated to Bronze (12,750 Players in bronze) If S4 comes along and only 30,000 players have played their placement matches, that 23% shows a lower number of people (7,650 in bronze) Meaning the MMR would slide accordingly. My example shows that in S3 a player with 1780 MMR is Platinum, whereas in S4 that MMR has this player in Diamond. Obviously if S4 grows to 50,000 people and the player in the example below never played a game, then he would drop back down in Platinum. Of course.. this is all guessing on my part.. I just sort of envision it working this way. Nah the MMR boundaries for the leagues are fixed. It's the population that varies, not the league boundaries. MMR isn't a moving target. It's more like this: Whoa, wait a minute, how would Blizzard maintain the 20/20/20/20/18/2 ratio if MMR boundaries are fixed? The populations aren't enforced. They fluctuate, and sometimes not insignificantly. However, skill always spreads out to cover gaps. I've used this example before, but say there are three players A B C and D, at 1000 1200 1400 and 1600 MMR, respectively. A is 1000 because he loses to the rest. B is at 1200 because he loses to C and D but he still beats A. C is at 1400 because he beats both A and B but loses to D. D is at 1600 because he beats all of them. If C stopped playing: - B would rise because he isn't losing to C anymore. - A would rise slightly because the gap between A and B will widen. A is still beating people below him. - D would fall slightly because as he loses to people above him, he can't sustain his current level because the gap between B and D is wider than the old gap between C and D. The new distribution might be something closer to 1020 for A, 1350 for B, 1580 for D. If C came back, he would come back at 1400, his old MMR. Gradually, as all players play more games, skill will spread out again and go back to the old distribution. Now if you imagine this on a larger scale and with league boundaries, that's going to come with some league fluctuations. Ok gotcha, so the percentages are already "baked in" the MMR. If that's the case though, then aren't they making an assumption about the distribution? Your graph looks like a normal distribution... is that accurate? Intuitively, I would think something like skill in starcraft 2 would fit better in a distribution with a fat tail. I'm a little sketchy on what it is in reality (obviously since the best resource we have is SC2Ranks which is limited because it includes all accounts) but from what I've heard, there is a bump in Diamond because of the skill difference between "hardcore" and "casual" players. However, I don't know if that was only for Season 1 and if prior distributions were used for later seasons. Can you elaborate on this 'bump'? Are you saying there is something artificially placed in Diamond that you must 'get over' regardless or active MMR to differentiate 'hardcore' and 'casual'. Is getting Diamond->Master the hardest promotion? Aside from GM I suppose. Reading what I typed sounds retarded, ugh. Can you just explain what this diamond 'bump' means? I think he meant between diamond and platinum - this would explain be explained them trying to fit a non-symmetric distribution onto a symmetric one. Though keep in mind that Blizzard can make changes to MMR related calculations (points lost and won from matches, boundaries, etc) whenever they want. They don't need a patch for something like that. Chances are they probably have taken some measures to correct for this phenomenon considering they always stood by the 20/20/20/20/18/2 breakdown. Edit: Correction, I don't mean the boundary between plat and diamond. I mean more than the allocated 20% of active population in diamond.
Yes, that's right. Blizzard has modified where the boundaries are in the past. Famously there was a "promotion day" that many players noticed in their 2v2/3v3/4v4 arranged teams and in 1v1 Bronze/Silver in the middle of Season 2. This was a result of the boundaries being changed to suit the current active population and return the league distribution closer to the ideal.
For example, say that when Master was first introduced, the MMR boundary was set at like 2600 (another imaginary value). For 1v1 that would mean 2% of the population would be expected to get above 2600. For 4v4, the reality was that there was only 1 arranged team that got into Master league at first, and their record was something amazing like 92-0. That meant that given the skill spread in 4v4 arranged, reaching 2600 was exceedingly difficult and didn't properly represent the desired 2% of the population. So, they changed the boundary, maybe to something like 2100 for 4v4 arranged so that closer to 2% of the population could get in.
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On October 05 2011 09:13 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 09:01 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 05 2011 08:51 crms wrote:On October 05 2011 08:03 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 07:37 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 05 2011 07:27 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 07:08 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 05 2011 06:16 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 06:09 Ignorant prodigy wrote:I think it may be a good thing to have shorter seasons.. this is how I envision it working.. Since we sort of agree MRR is a moving target, I think the qty of people actively playing the game effects which ranking certain MMR ranges fall into. This would mean the shorter season weeds out the newer players quicker.. making the variance in skill between the rankings a bit less diluted. For instance if Blizzard is trying to maintain certain percentages of its overall populace into different leagues then shorter seasons reduce the qty of inactive players accounting for those percentages. Meaning your ranking will be more accurate to your skill level amongst active players. I created a quick chart to sort of show what I’m saying. Let’s say right now there’s 50,000 people who’ve played their placement matches in S3. Lets also guesstimate Blizzard wishes to maintain 23% of that 50,000 be dedicated to Bronze (12,750 Players in bronze) If S4 comes along and only 30,000 players have played their placement matches, that 23% shows a lower number of people (7,650 in bronze) Meaning the MMR would slide accordingly. My example shows that in S3 a player with 1780 MMR is Platinum, whereas in S4 that MMR has this player in Diamond. Obviously if S4 grows to 50,000 people and the player in the example below never played a game, then he would drop back down in Platinum. Of course.. this is all guessing on my part.. I just sort of envision it working this way. Nah the MMR boundaries for the leagues are fixed. It's the population that varies, not the league boundaries. MMR isn't a moving target. It's more like this: Whoa, wait a minute, how would Blizzard maintain the 20/20/20/20/18/2 ratio if MMR boundaries are fixed? The populations aren't enforced. They fluctuate, and sometimes not insignificantly. However, skill always spreads out to cover gaps. I've used this example before, but say there are three players A B C and D, at 1000 1200 1400 and 1600 MMR, respectively. A is 1000 because he loses to the rest. B is at 1200 because he loses to C and D but he still beats A. C is at 1400 because he beats both A and B but loses to D. D is at 1600 because he beats all of them. If C stopped playing: - B would rise because he isn't losing to C anymore. - A would rise slightly because the gap between A and B will widen. A is still beating people below him. - D would fall slightly because as he loses to people above him, he can't sustain his current level because the gap between B and D is wider than the old gap between C and D. The new distribution might be something closer to 1020 for A, 1350 for B, 1580 for D. If C came back, he would come back at 1400, his old MMR. Gradually, as all players play more games, skill will spread out again and go back to the old distribution. Now if you imagine this on a larger scale and with league boundaries, that's going to come with some league fluctuations. Ok gotcha, so the percentages are already "baked in" the MMR. If that's the case though, then aren't they making an assumption about the distribution? Your graph looks like a normal distribution... is that accurate? Intuitively, I would think something like skill in starcraft 2 would fit better in a distribution with a fat tail. I'm a little sketchy on what it is in reality (obviously since the best resource we have is SC2Ranks which is limited because it includes all accounts) but from what I've heard, there is a bump in Diamond because of the skill difference between "hardcore" and "casual" players. However, I don't know if that was only for Season 1 and if prior distributions were used for later seasons. Can you elaborate on this 'bump'? Are you saying there is something artificially placed in Diamond that you must 'get over' regardless or active MMR to differentiate 'hardcore' and 'casual'. Is getting Diamond->Master the hardest promotion? Aside from GM I suppose. Reading what I typed sounds retarded, ugh. Can you just explain what this diamond 'bump' means? I think he meant between diamond and platinum - this would explain be explained them trying to fit a non-symmetric distribution onto a symmetric one. Though keep in mind that Blizzard can make changes to MMR related calculations (points lost and won from matches, boundaries, etc) whenever they want. They don't need a patch for something like that. Chances are they probably have taken some measures to correct for this phenomenon considering they always stood by the 20/20/20/20/18/2 breakdown. Edit: Correction, I don't mean the boundary between plat and diamond. I mean more than the allocated 20% of active population in diamond. Yes, that's right. Blizzard has modified where the boundaries are in the past. Famously there was a "promotion day" that many players noticed in their 2v2/3v3/4v4 arranged teams and in 1v1 Bronze/Silver in the middle of Season 2. This was a result of the boundaries being changed to suit the current active population and return the league distribution closer to the ideal. For example, say that when Master was first introduced, the MMR boundary was set at like 2600 (another imaginary value). For 1v1 that would mean 2% of the population would be expected to get above 2600. For 4v4, the reality was that there was only 1 arranged team that got into Master league at first, and their record was something amazing like 92-0. That meant that given the skill spread in 4v4 arranged, reaching 2600 was exceedingly difficult and didn't properly represent the desired 2% of the population. So, they changed the boundary, maybe to something like 2100 for 4v4 arranged so that closer to 2% of the population could get in.
Ahh I remember that, makes sense.
So yes -moral of the story- to everyone asking questions about things like bonus pool, league distribution (myself included), we just have to trust that Blizzard is making sure that the ladder population falls roughly into the 20/20/20/20/18/2 breakdown and that more importantly, the only things that tell you anything meaningful about current your skill level are your league, the leagues of your recent opponents (and maybe also the leagues of the other recent opponents of your recent opponents). Those things would probably give you as clear a picture as possible of where you stand relative to the entire population of active players.
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i think this is a good change. it makes it easier for people that are getting into the game to place well in the ladder, and for the veterans, the mmr really remains unchanged so there isn't much of a difference. Its ultimately not about how much you play, but where your mmr stands that determines what division you're placed in.
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Hey, just a quick question, and I'm sorry if it has been asked and answered before, is the MMR still active when you play during the lock-down period? I have some leave coming up and was going to log in a few hours of SC2 for my 1v1 and in my 2v2 and 3v3 teams. Will these games be taken into account when season 4 commences after 24/10? Cheers.
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On October 05 2011 10:00 aZealot wrote:
Hey, just a quick question, and I'm sorry if it has been asked and answered before, is the MMR still active when you play during the lock-down period? I have some leave coming up and was going to log in a few hours of SC2 for my 1v1 and in my 2v2 and 3v3 teams. Will these games be taken into account when season 4 commences after 24/10? Cheers.
Yes, your MMR changes as it would normally during league lock.
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On October 05 2011 07:27 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 07:08 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 05 2011 06:16 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 06:09 Ignorant prodigy wrote:I think it may be a good thing to have shorter seasons.. this is how I envision it working.. Since we sort of agree MRR is a moving target, I think the qty of people actively playing the game effects which ranking certain MMR ranges fall into. This would mean the shorter season weeds out the newer players quicker.. making the variance in skill between the rankings a bit less diluted. For instance if Blizzard is trying to maintain certain percentages of its overall populace into different leagues then shorter seasons reduce the qty of inactive players accounting for those percentages. Meaning your ranking will be more accurate to your skill level amongst active players. I created a quick chart to sort of show what I’m saying. Let’s say right now there’s 50,000 people who’ve played their placement matches in S3. Lets also guesstimate Blizzard wishes to maintain 23% of that 50,000 be dedicated to Bronze (12,750 Players in bronze) If S4 comes along and only 30,000 players have played their placement matches, that 23% shows a lower number of people (7,650 in bronze) Meaning the MMR would slide accordingly. My example shows that in S3 a player with 1780 MMR is Platinum, whereas in S4 that MMR has this player in Diamond. Obviously if S4 grows to 50,000 people and the player in the example below never played a game, then he would drop back down in Platinum. Of course.. this is all guessing on my part.. I just sort of envision it working this way. Nah the MMR boundaries for the leagues are fixed. It's the population that varies, not the league boundaries. MMR isn't a moving target. It's more like this: Whoa, wait a minute, how would Blizzard maintain the 20/20/20/20/18/2 ratio if MMR boundaries are fixed? The populations aren't enforced. They fluctuate, and sometimes not insignificantly. However, skill always spreads out to cover gaps. I've used this example before, but say there are three players A B C and D, at 1000 1200 1400 and 1600 MMR, respectively. A is 1000 because he loses to the rest. B is at 1200 because he loses to C and D but he still beats A. C is at 1400 because he beats both A and B but loses to D. D is at 1600 because he beats all of them. If C stopped playing: - B would rise because he isn't losing to C anymore. - A would rise slightly because the gap between A and B will widen. A is still beating people below him. - D would fall slightly because as he loses to people above him, he can't sustain his current level because the gap between B and D is wider than the old gap between C and D. The new distribution might be something closer to 1020 for A, 1350 for B, 1580 for D. If C came back, he would come back at 1400, his old MMR. Gradually, as all players play more games, skill will spread out again and go back to the old distribution. Now if you imagine this on a larger scale and with league boundaries, that's going to come with some league fluctuations.
I don't think this is true. The matchmaking system does more than determine the players skill order. It measures their actual skill difference, ie the MMR difference between two players is a direct measure of the chances of these two players beating each other. In your example above, B would still lose to D the same way he did before. Imagine that only B and D are left on the ladder. Would their MMR difference widen until they end up in different leagues? I say no. B would still beat D some times (for example 1 out of 5), and when he does he will win a large amount of points. This will keep their MMR difference the same.
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I don't think this is true. The matchmaking system does more than determine the players skill order. It measures their actual skill difference, ie the MMR difference between two players is a direct measure of the chances of these two players beating each other.
It's not a direct measure, it's a Bayesian ("maximum likelihood") estimate of their chance of one player beating the other based on past game history against ALL other players (not just the one in question.) Their game history determines not just their ordering but how far apart the game thinks they are from each other, but if a player drops out they do redistribute because the people that player would have beat are losing slightly less and the players to which that player would lose are winning less.
What Excalibur_Z is describing is consistent with that kind of system.
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On October 05 2011 15:22 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +I don't think this is true. The matchmaking system does more than determine the players skill order. It measures their actual skill difference, ie the MMR difference between two players is a direct measure of the chances of these two players beating each other. It's not a direct measure, it's a Bayesian ("maximum likelihood") estimate of their chance of one player beating the other based on past game history against ALL other players (not just the one in question.) Their game history determines not just their ordering but how far apart the game thinks they are from each other, but if a player drops out they do redistribute because the people that player would have beat are losing slightly less and the players to which that player would lose are winning less. What Excalibur_Z is describing is consistent with that kind of system.
You know more about this than me, so I can't really argue with you, but if what you are saying is true, the MMR difference between two players does NOT indicate their relative skill difference, ie you cannot calculate the chance of player A beating player B based on their MMR? That does not make sense to me. What about my example with player B and D being the only players on the ladder?
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ie you cannot calculate the chance of player A beating player B based on their MMR? That does not make sense to me. What about my example with player B and D being the only players on the ladder?
The variation because a player drops out would be smaller than the uncertainty of the estimate of the MMR. The idea is that there's an "actual" MMR and the one in the system is just an approximation of that. This kind of effect would push around people's scores within the range of the uncertainty of the MMR, which a system like this can probably quantitatively estimate.
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On October 05 2011 17:00 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +ie you cannot calculate the chance of player A beating player B based on their MMR? That does not make sense to me. What about my example with player B and D being the only players on the ladder? The variation because a player drops out would be smaller than the uncertainty of the estimate of the MMR. The idea is that there's an "actual" MMR and the one in the system is just an approximation of that. This kind of effect would push around people's scores within the range of the uncertainty of the MMR, which a system like this can probably quantitatively estimate.
Ah. That makes more sense then. If a lot of bronze players drop out, there will be a downward shift, but not enough to completely make up for all of the missing players?
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Ah. That makes more sense then. If a lot of bronze players drop out, there will be a downward shift, but not enough to completely make up for all of the missing players?
In that case, it's a little different. If there's a wholesale exodus of Bronze players, everyone else is going to move down the ranks.
Over the long term, an active player's MMR should be correlated pretty well to their percentile. That's why the leagues up to Diamond are each "20%" of the population -- they have firm MMR boundaries, and as people exit or enter the game, the population redistributes among available MMRs.
So, if the bottom 20% quit, then the bottom 20% of the higher level players who remain become the new bottom 20%, and probably get demoted.
ELO works the same way, btw.
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On October 05 2011 18:02 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +Ah. That makes more sense then. If a lot of bronze players drop out, there will be a downward shift, but not enough to completely make up for all of the missing players? So, if the bottom 20% quit, then the bottom 20% of the higher level players who remain become the new bottom 20%, and probably get demoted.
Yes, this is the example often quoted, and it's the one I'm having problems with. Obviously, if all of the bottom 20% is quitting, the next 20% will take their place, because there are no true anchors in the system except for the very best and worst players. But this scenario is unrealistic. What happens is that maybe every other of them quit. In a system that measures your true skill every MMR would then be unaffected, because the anchors would still be approximately of the same skill level as before. Due to the probabilistic nature of measured MMR I can understand that there will be a shift, but not enough to completely fill up bronze again. That would imply that the skill distance between the players is completely ignored by the system.
(Edit: spelling)
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That would imply that the skill distance between the players is completely ignored by the system.
Based on all the information I have, MMR can't be used to derive an absolute probability of win or loss, other than that two players of the same MMR have a 50/50 chance to win or lose. Thus, when a situation occurs like I described, the relationship between different MMRs and the chances of a win or loss would change.
However, I'm not sure that enough information has been released to know for certain that that's the case. Excalibur_Z seems to think so, though, and he does have an inside track.
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On October 05 2011 18:43 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +That would imply that the skill distance between the players is completely ignored by the system. Based on all the information I have, MMR can't be used to derive an absolute probability of win or loss, other than that two players of the same MMR have a 50/50 chance to win or lose. Thus, when a situation occurs like I described, the relationship between different MMRs and the chances of a win or loss would change. However, I'm not sure that enough information has been released to know for certain that that's the case. Excalibur_Z seems to think so, though, and he does have an inside track.
That surprises me a lot. A quick google about Elo for example says this:
http://www.ascotti.org/programming/chess/elo.htm
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On October 05 2011 18:21 Mendelfist wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 18:02 Lysenko wrote:Ah. That makes more sense then. If a lot of bronze players drop out, there will be a downward shift, but not enough to completely make up for all of the missing players? So, if the bottom 20% quit, then the bottom 20% of the higher level players who remain become the new bottom 20%, and probably get demoted. Yes, this is the example often quoted, and it's the one I'm having problems with. Obviously, if all of the bottom 20% is quitting, the next 20% will take their place, because there are no true anchors in the system except for the very best and worst players. But this scenario is unrealistic. What happens is that maybe every other of them quit. In a system that measures your true skill every MMR would then be unaffected, because the anchors would still be approximately of the same skill level as before. Due to the probabilistic nature of measured MMR I can understand that there will be a shift, but not enough to completely fill up bronze again. That would imply that the skill distance between the players is completely ignored by the system. (Edit: spelling)
That's exactly what I was trying to say.. but who knows then the 'shifting' occurs. Doesn't sound like it happens often... but with shorter seasons I would think it will have to happen at some point as there's less and less 'new' players with each new season.
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On October 05 2011 23:44 Ignorant prodigy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 18:21 Mendelfist wrote:On October 05 2011 18:02 Lysenko wrote:Ah. That makes more sense then. If a lot of bronze players drop out, there will be a downward shift, but not enough to completely make up for all of the missing players? So, if the bottom 20% quit, then the bottom 20% of the higher level players who remain become the new bottom 20%, and probably get demoted. Yes, this is the example often quoted, and it's the one I'm having problems with. Obviously, if all of the bottom 20% is quitting, the next 20% will take their place, because there are no true anchors in the system except for the very best and worst players. But this scenario is unrealistic. What happens is that maybe every other of them quit. In a system that measures your true skill every MMR would then be unaffected, because the anchors would still be approximately of the same skill level as before. Due to the probabilistic nature of measured MMR I can understand that there will be a shift, but not enough to completely fill up bronze again. That would imply that the skill distance between the players is completely ignored by the system. (Edit: spelling) That's exactly what I was trying to say.. but who knows then the 'shifting' occurs. Doesn't sound like it happens often... but with shorter seasons I would think it will have to happen at some point as there's less and less 'new' players with each new season.
This is pretty much what Excalibur_Z and I were discussing - that Blizzard tweaks calculations/boundaries/etc regarding player MMRs. The main point takeaway though is that these changes can occur at any time. They should be completely independent of the length of the seasons.
The main benefits of shorter seasons, I think, are to give people a chance to catch up within their division so they can feel better psychologically about their progression and for the GM league to cycle out more frequently.
It has the added benefit of making it easier for you to reset your MMR though (since skipping a season intentionally requires a shorter time-frame).
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United States12235 Posts
On October 05 2011 18:55 Mendelfist wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 18:43 Lysenko wrote:That would imply that the skill distance between the players is completely ignored by the system. Based on all the information I have, MMR can't be used to derive an absolute probability of win or loss, other than that two players of the same MMR have a 50/50 chance to win or lose. Thus, when a situation occurs like I described, the relationship between different MMRs and the chances of a win or loss would change. However, I'm not sure that enough information has been released to know for certain that that's the case. Excalibur_Z seems to think so, though, and he does have an inside track. That surprises me a lot. A quick google about Elo for example says this: http://www.ascotti.org/programming/chess/elo.htm
No, you're actually exactly right. I decided to ask about this and my example was wrong. The difference in MMR does directly correspond with win chances, just as it does under Elo. This was the response I got, and I'll be correcting any errors in the Ladder Guide:
So, in your example, if C left but A, B, and D already have established ratings, those ratings wouldn't change in either Elo or our system because now D would just beat B 76% of the time, and that difference would be preserved ( in the long run). Their absolute win percentages might change, though that depends a bit on your match-maker. The difference in MMR will always be directly proportional to the estimated win % between those two players. If you and I were the only two players in the system and the system started at, e.g. 1500, and we only played each other, and you beat me 64% of the time, then our ratings would converge to 1450 and 1550 (assuming 100 = 64%). The only real difference as far as PREDICTIONS go in our system is we take the variance into account. All this really does, though, is scale that difference down a little before using it. So, as a loose example, if the difference between us is 100, but we're both pretty new, then that 100 might become 50, since our confidence that you are REALLY 100 better than me is low. And, yes, if we had an established system and then all Bronze left, it would be 0%. We have ways of dealing with that though, if it's necessary
So Bronze actually wouldn't get repopulated in the hypothetical "what if Bronze quit" scenario, Blizzard would just react to that and adjust MMR boundaries accordingly.
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On October 06 2011 09:02 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +And, yes, if we had an established system and then all Bronze left, it would be 0%. We have ways of dealing with that though, if it's necessary So Bronze actually wouldn't get repopulated in the hypothetical "what if Bronze quit" scenario, Blizzard would just react to that and adjust MMR boundaries accordingly.
Thanks. The only question left for me then is what happens in the unlikely scenario that every single one of the bronzes leave. I understand that if a few of them remain they will force the rest of the population to keep their MMR, but I don't agree that nothing will happen if they all leave.
The question is what Blizzard uses for "anchors". There has to be something, otherwise MMR will tend to drift. In other online systems, Go for example, you use well known players as anchors. "X is 9 dan. Period." In this system, what do they use? My idea was that they simply assign the best player to some MMR, and the worst player to some other MMR. In that case bronze will repopulate if empty, but according to your response that won't happen. So how do they do it?
Actually, I was just going to hit "Post", when the thought occured to me that you can't use two anchors. That would assign a fixed MMR difference between the best and the worst regardless of their skill difference, and that doesn't work (because "MMR will always be directly proportional to the estimated win %" wouldn't be true). Maybe they only use the best players? But that would cause some problems in the long run, because the skill difference between the best and the worst will constantly increase, and bronze would fill up more and more. Whatever anchor you choose, you would see a redistribution over time as the best continue to be better, but the newcomers still are newbies, and we don't see this.
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Way to soon. Needs to be more then 2 months. Maybe 3 minimum.
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I'm not really a big fan of the shorter seasons, but hey, doesn't matter that much to me I'll still play the same amount.
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On October 05 2011 09:27 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 09:13 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 09:01 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 05 2011 08:51 crms wrote:On October 05 2011 08:03 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 07:37 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 05 2011 07:27 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 07:08 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 05 2011 06:16 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 05 2011 06:09 Ignorant prodigy wrote:I think it may be a good thing to have shorter seasons.. this is how I envision it working.. Since we sort of agree MRR is a moving target, I think the qty of people actively playing the game effects which ranking certain MMR ranges fall into. This would mean the shorter season weeds out the newer players quicker.. making the variance in skill between the rankings a bit less diluted. For instance if Blizzard is trying to maintain certain percentages of its overall populace into different leagues then shorter seasons reduce the qty of inactive players accounting for those percentages. Meaning your ranking will be more accurate to your skill level amongst active players. I created a quick chart to sort of show what I’m saying. Let’s say right now there’s 50,000 people who’ve played their placement matches in S3. Lets also guesstimate Blizzard wishes to maintain 23% of that 50,000 be dedicated to Bronze (12,750 Players in bronze) If S4 comes along and only 30,000 players have played their placement matches, that 23% shows a lower number of people (7,650 in bronze) Meaning the MMR would slide accordingly. My example shows that in S3 a player with 1780 MMR is Platinum, whereas in S4 that MMR has this player in Diamond. Obviously if S4 grows to 50,000 people and the player in the example below never played a game, then he would drop back down in Platinum. Of course.. this is all guessing on my part.. I just sort of envision it working this way. Nah the MMR boundaries for the leagues are fixed. It's the population that varies, not the league boundaries. MMR isn't a moving target. It's more like this: Whoa, wait a minute, how would Blizzard maintain the 20/20/20/20/18/2 ratio if MMR boundaries are fixed? The populations aren't enforced. They fluctuate, and sometimes not insignificantly. However, skill always spreads out to cover gaps. I've used this example before, but say there are three players A B C and D, at 1000 1200 1400 and 1600 MMR, respectively. A is 1000 because he loses to the rest. B is at 1200 because he loses to C and D but he still beats A. C is at 1400 because he beats both A and B but loses to D. D is at 1600 because he beats all of them. If C stopped playing: - B would rise because he isn't losing to C anymore. - A would rise slightly because the gap between A and B will widen. A is still beating people below him. - D would fall slightly because as he loses to people above him, he can't sustain his current level because the gap between B and D is wider than the old gap between C and D. The new distribution might be something closer to 1020 for A, 1350 for B, 1580 for D. If C came back, he would come back at 1400, his old MMR. Gradually, as all players play more games, skill will spread out again and go back to the old distribution. Now if you imagine this on a larger scale and with league boundaries, that's going to come with some league fluctuations. Ok gotcha, so the percentages are already "baked in" the MMR. If that's the case though, then aren't they making an assumption about the distribution? Your graph looks like a normal distribution... is that accurate? Intuitively, I would think something like skill in starcraft 2 would fit better in a distribution with a fat tail. I'm a little sketchy on what it is in reality (obviously since the best resource we have is SC2Ranks which is limited because it includes all accounts) but from what I've heard, there is a bump in Diamond because of the skill difference between "hardcore" and "casual" players. However, I don't know if that was only for Season 1 and if prior distributions were used for later seasons. Can you elaborate on this 'bump'? Are you saying there is something artificially placed in Diamond that you must 'get over' regardless or active MMR to differentiate 'hardcore' and 'casual'. Is getting Diamond->Master the hardest promotion? Aside from GM I suppose. Reading what I typed sounds retarded, ugh. Can you just explain what this diamond 'bump' means? I think he meant between diamond and platinum - this would explain be explained them trying to fit a non-symmetric distribution onto a symmetric one. Though keep in mind that Blizzard can make changes to MMR related calculations (points lost and won from matches, boundaries, etc) whenever they want. They don't need a patch for something like that. Chances are they probably have taken some measures to correct for this phenomenon considering they always stood by the 20/20/20/20/18/2 breakdown. Edit: Correction, I don't mean the boundary between plat and diamond. I mean more than the allocated 20% of active population in diamond. Yes, that's right. Blizzard has modified where the boundaries are in the past. Famously there was a "promotion day" that many players noticed in their 2v2/3v3/4v4 arranged teams and in 1v1 Bronze/Silver in the middle of Season 2. This was a result of the boundaries being changed to suit the current active population and return the league distribution closer to the ideal. For example, say that when Master was first introduced, the MMR boundary was set at like 2600 (another imaginary value). For 1v1 that would mean 2% of the population would be expected to get above 2600. For 4v4, the reality was that there was only 1 arranged team that got into Master league at first, and their record was something amazing like 92-0. That meant that given the skill spread in 4v4 arranged, reaching 2600 was exceedingly difficult and didn't properly represent the desired 2% of the population. So, they changed the boundary, maybe to something like 2100 for 4v4 arranged so that closer to 2% of the population could get in. Ahh I remember that, makes sense. So yes -moral of the story- to everyone asking questions about things like bonus pool, league distribution (myself included), we just have to trust that Blizzard is making sure that the ladder population falls roughly into the 20/20/20/20/18/2 breakdown and that more importantly, the only things that tell you anything meaningful about current your skill level are your league, the leagues of your recent opponents (and maybe also the leagues of the other recent opponents of your recent opponents). Those things would probably give you as clear a picture as possible of where you stand relative to the entire population of active players.
Yup, definitely. Or if you're in Masters then you can look at points + bonus pool since divisions aren't weighted. And for GM it would probably be better to look at points + bonus pool to compare to other GM players since many times GM players aren't available for other GM players to play, so they end up playing high masters.
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I welcome shorter season. This means different map pools. I didn't find many of the maps in season 3 to be very memorable or noteworthy in my opinion other than Antiga Shipyard.
Xel Naga Caverns needs to disappear as well as Backwater Gulch.
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I think the season was too short. I only got to play about 60 games (School) and still had no idea what the new maps were called and how they were different. Plus, I am so close to being diamond that my MMR will probably try to promote me after the lock
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I do like the idea of shorter seasons, but i think 4 months would be more ideal
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I'm all for shorter seasons. As an above poster stated that this also means different map pools. Season 3s map pool was...no bueno. 
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I really do hope if they are doing 2 month seasons they change some of the maps every other season, just to keep things a little more fresher!!!!
Think its a great idea having shorter seasons just for the fact that as they ahve alread said the ladders are far more active in the first 8 weeks then slowly tails off!!!
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i feel like 1 month or two tops should be enough for a season, shorter season with maybe some prizes would make this whole ladder thing alot more interesting
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I haven't seen anything about new maps anywhere, will new maps be implemented with the new season? I assume there will be but this is Blizzard we are talking about, and so far I haven't seen any info on new maps for season 4
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as long as they make the ladder lock time shorter, i'm fine with this.
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United States12235 Posts
On October 06 2011 14:14 Mendelfist wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 09:02 Excalibur_Z wrote:And, yes, if we had an established system and then all Bronze left, it would be 0%. We have ways of dealing with that though, if it's necessary So Bronze actually wouldn't get repopulated in the hypothetical "what if Bronze quit" scenario, Blizzard would just react to that and adjust MMR boundaries accordingly. Thanks. The only question left for me then is what happens in the unlikely scenario that every single one of the bronzes leave. I understand that if a few of them remain they will force the rest of the population to keep their MMR, but I don't agree that nothing will happen if they all leave. The question is what Blizzard uses for "anchors". There has to be something, otherwise MMR will tend to drift. In other online systems, Go for example, you use well known players as anchors. "X is 9 dan. Period." In this system, what do they use? My idea was that they simply assign the best player to some MMR, and the worst player to some other MMR. In that case bronze will repopulate if empty, but according to your response that won't happen. So how do they do it? Actually, I was just going to hit "Post", when the thought occured to me that you can't use two anchors. That would assign a fixed MMR difference between the best and the worst regardless of their skill difference, and that doesn't work (because "MMR will always be directly proportional to the estimated win %" wouldn't be true). Maybe they only use the best players? But that would cause some problems in the long run, because the skill difference between the best and the worst will constantly increase, and bronze would fill up more and more. Whatever anchor you choose, you would see a redistribution over time as the best continue to be better, but the newcomers still are newbies, and we don't see this.
Well we know that the MMR range is fixed (that is, it has a cap) because some players who have spoken to David Kim have been told this, and that's backed up by the diminishing returns that top Grandmaster players are seeing for each of their wins. Maybe it really is using the old 0-3000 range that WoW did after all. I know the way chess handles this is by modifying the k-factor at certain steps to make earning rating beyond a certain point more difficult, but I'm not sure if the same principle applies to MMR.
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I would love a new saison every two month mainly because of the map pool rotation it would create.
I don't really carre about ranking anyway.
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Blizzard is going too far: 2 months is way too short. Why not reset every 2 weeks with a 1 week lock ? ... come on blizzard.
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I think their point on more activity during the first 8 weeks is valid. I haven't played for over a month, so was in something like 75th place in my division. I played for a few hours the last two nights, quickly cleared my bonus pool and am approaching the top 5 in my division (was 11th last night) which just goes to show how many are inactive right now. If there was consistent ladder play, there's no way I should be able to be inactive that long and then rocket to the top bonus pool or not.
Guess we'll see how it plays out, I'm not concerned with my division placement, I just want to keep improving .
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I will never understand the need for a two week lock between seasons. It's like dead time, where playing ladder games becomes almost pointless as there is nothing to be gained. If I want practice, I'll just grab some of my plat friends and play practice games rather than laddering.
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On October 07 2011 02:18 Brainling wrote:
I will never understand the need for a two week lock between seasons. It's like dead time, where playing ladder games becomes almost pointless as there is nothing to be gained. If I want practice, I'll just grab some of my plat friends and play practice games rather than laddering.
the reason is that it allows players to not fear league/division change. Getting demoted or promoted causes you to lose all your points except bonus pool spent. Thus making it very difficult to place top8/25/etc.
Obviously for you (and others) the reason to ladder is to get into the next league. Others like to try to get as high a rank within their division as possible.
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I just started really playing too
Oh well, my intentional drop to bronze, rise to gold, intentional drop to bronze again and current trip up to gold (soon hopefully) is going well!
Next season I'm not going to game the system. Yay!
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Lock seems too long. But I like having only 2 month seasons. Easier to keep on top of that bonus pool instead of leaving it 'til the last minute. :D
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This season feels really short. I have little more than half the games I played last season..... guess I need to get to work in the next couple weeks.
I'm not really looking forward to the shorter season. I feel like if seasons start occurring too often than they will lose some of their significance, and players may actually start placing less because the turnover rate is too high.
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I haven't even had the time to play that much in S3 =(
Oh well.
Guess S4 I'll try and put some good time into o.o
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shorter seems => faster rotating map pool = great
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for people saying shorter seasons are worse... why?
for people saying they haven't had time to play enough games, how would a longer season actually allow you to play more games/day? Also, wouldn't having your "games played deficit" erased make it easier to start up in the next season?
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I welcome shorter seasons too. maps and tactics will morph at a faster pace IMO.
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On October 07 2011 18:27 zergtat wrote:
I welcome shorter seasons too. maps and tactics will morph at a faster pace IMO.
Why?
Tactics morph depending on patches and the GSL mostly ...
Maps I see
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United Arab Emirates874 Posts
I like the shorter seasons. I love playing on new maps. it makes the game feel fresh :D
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This is great if the map pool changes every season!
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I think the more concise seasons will reward those who want to get a promotion, and the inverse for those who are too lazy/too scared to play.
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Shorter seasons is definitely the way to go in my opinion.
Or, at least a revise on the division system. I'm sorry but my play stagnates when I'm #1 in my division for a month straight. So either start a new season or refresh divisions with active players. I love seeing (sarcasm) 90% of my division having less than 5 wins. Real... competitive. And for reference it's Diamond, maybe other leagues see more activity.
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On October 07 2011 00:06 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 14:14 Mendelfist wrote:On October 06 2011 09:02 Excalibur_Z wrote:And, yes, if we had an established system and then all Bronze left, it would be 0%. We have ways of dealing with that though, if it's necessary So Bronze actually wouldn't get repopulated in the hypothetical "what if Bronze quit" scenario, Blizzard would just react to that and adjust MMR boundaries accordingly. Thanks. The only question left for me then is what happens in the unlikely scenario that every single one of the bronzes leave. I understand that if a few of them remain they will force the rest of the population to keep their MMR, but I don't agree that nothing will happen if they all leave. The question is what Blizzard uses for "anchors". There has to be something, otherwise MMR will tend to drift. In other online systems, Go for example, you use well known players as anchors. "X is 9 dan. Period." In this system, what do they use? My idea was that they simply assign the best player to some MMR, and the worst player to some other MMR. In that case bronze will repopulate if empty, but according to your response that won't happen. So how do they do it? Actually, I was just going to hit "Post", when the thought occured to me that you can't use two anchors. That would assign a fixed MMR difference between the best and the worst regardless of their skill difference, and that doesn't work (because "MMR will always be directly proportional to the estimated win %" wouldn't be true). Maybe they only use the best players? But that would cause some problems in the long run, because the skill difference between the best and the worst will constantly increase, and bronze would fill up more and more. Whatever anchor you choose, you would see a redistribution over time as the best continue to be better, but the newcomers still are newbies, and we don't see this. Well we know that the MMR range is fixed (that is, it has a cap) because some players who have spoken to David Kim have been told this, and that's backed up by the diminishing returns that top Grandmaster players are seeing for each of their wins. Maybe it really is using the old 0-3000 range that WoW did after all. I know the way chess handles this is by modifying the k-factor at certain steps to make earning rating beyond a certain point more difficult, but I'm not sure if the same principle applies to MMR.
I'm pretty sure WoW mmr didn't cap at 3000 as top teams playing eachother at 50% winrate capped both teams (team rating was 0-3000) in a few games which suggests their MMR had to be way over 3000 (assuming team rating moves towards mmr)
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I think a better solution would be that inactive players drop down a league as a punishment.
Right now, some players achieved a decent league in in the earlier seasons, but then they just play 1(!) placement game each season. Even if they lose those games their MMR will be almost the same so they will be placed in the same high league again.
Then they will only play 4vs4 while bragging about their Master/Diamond 1v1 League while in reality only being a gold level 1v1 player.
TLDR
Inactive players should be dropped one league, not just being able to keep their league by playing a single game each season.
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can u still games via matchmaking or is it locked too ?
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Would definitely appreciate more time this season, i really like the maps and I've just caught a break with some time to play more
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United States12235 Posts
On October 07 2011 21:12 BadBinky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 00:06 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 06 2011 14:14 Mendelfist wrote:On October 06 2011 09:02 Excalibur_Z wrote:And, yes, if we had an established system and then all Bronze left, it would be 0%. We have ways of dealing with that though, if it's necessary So Bronze actually wouldn't get repopulated in the hypothetical "what if Bronze quit" scenario, Blizzard would just react to that and adjust MMR boundaries accordingly. Thanks. The only question left for me then is what happens in the unlikely scenario that every single one of the bronzes leave. I understand that if a few of them remain they will force the rest of the population to keep their MMR, but I don't agree that nothing will happen if they all leave. The question is what Blizzard uses for "anchors". There has to be something, otherwise MMR will tend to drift. In other online systems, Go for example, you use well known players as anchors. "X is 9 dan. Period." In this system, what do they use? My idea was that they simply assign the best player to some MMR, and the worst player to some other MMR. In that case bronze will repopulate if empty, but according to your response that won't happen. So how do they do it? Actually, I was just going to hit "Post", when the thought occured to me that you can't use two anchors. That would assign a fixed MMR difference between the best and the worst regardless of their skill difference, and that doesn't work (because "MMR will always be directly proportional to the estimated win %" wouldn't be true). Maybe they only use the best players? But that would cause some problems in the long run, because the skill difference between the best and the worst will constantly increase, and bronze would fill up more and more. Whatever anchor you choose, you would see a redistribution over time as the best continue to be better, but the newcomers still are newbies, and we don't see this. Well we know that the MMR range is fixed (that is, it has a cap) because some players who have spoken to David Kim have been told this, and that's backed up by the diminishing returns that top Grandmaster players are seeing for each of their wins. Maybe it really is using the old 0-3000 range that WoW did after all. I know the way chess handles this is by modifying the k-factor at certain steps to make earning rating beyond a certain point more difficult, but I'm not sure if the same principle applies to MMR. I'm pretty sure WoW mmr didn't cap at 3000 as top teams playing eachother at 50% winrate capped both teams (team rating was 0-3000) in a few games which suggests their MMR had to be way over 3000 (assuming team rating moves towards mmr)
It used to be capped (hence why I phrased it "the old 0-3000 range") but they removed the cap after some season, can't remember which.
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In some ways this is cool but I also like the fact that seasons take long mostly because all that time you get to improve if you don't got as much time on your hands as others do, especially if you're working a 9 to 5. But I also think this can get me to masters faster. I feel like I'm smarter then masters if that makes sense? (I'm diamond btw) I watch most of my replays and I only lose because my macro is derp. So after I practice on my smurf I will hopefully pick up my macro and get placed into masters. wish my luck and good luck to all of you.....keep laddering brethren!!!!
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Imo 2 months is just too quick. Yes faster seasons = faster map rotation. At the same time shouldn't we give some of these maps some time to get played out? Just imagine of for some wierd reason they'd remove antiga shipyard with s4, yes it's still in tourneys and shit, but for most of us ladder is atleast a good part of our playtime. And I feel like antigate shipyard still has a lot of potential and is far away from being played out.
Imo 3 months are just fine, I don't see why they change it. If I'd see that there is more activity within the first 8 weeks I wouldn't shorten seasons, I would ask myself why people stop playing my game that much after 8 weeks.
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I know that historically Blizzard changes up the map pool when there's a new season. Has anyone seen anything about new maps? I haven't seen anything yet so I was wondering if they're breaking that trend with this next season or perhaps I'm just missing that info.
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On October 07 2011 21:12 BadBinky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 00:06 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 06 2011 14:14 Mendelfist wrote:On October 06 2011 09:02 Excalibur_Z wrote:And, yes, if we had an established system and then all Bronze left, it would be 0%. We have ways of dealing with that though, if it's necessary So Bronze actually wouldn't get repopulated in the hypothetical "what if Bronze quit" scenario, Blizzard would just react to that and adjust MMR boundaries accordingly. Thanks. The only question left for me then is what happens in the unlikely scenario that every single one of the bronzes leave. I understand that if a few of them remain they will force the rest of the population to keep their MMR, but I don't agree that nothing will happen if they all leave. The question is what Blizzard uses for "anchors". There has to be something, otherwise MMR will tend to drift. In other online systems, Go for example, you use well known players as anchors. "X is 9 dan. Period." In this system, what do they use? My idea was that they simply assign the best player to some MMR, and the worst player to some other MMR. In that case bronze will repopulate if empty, but according to your response that won't happen. So how do they do it? Actually, I was just going to hit "Post", when the thought occured to me that you can't use two anchors. That would assign a fixed MMR difference between the best and the worst regardless of their skill difference, and that doesn't work (because "MMR will always be directly proportional to the estimated win %" wouldn't be true). Maybe they only use the best players? But that would cause some problems in the long run, because the skill difference between the best and the worst will constantly increase, and bronze would fill up more and more. Whatever anchor you choose, you would see a redistribution over time as the best continue to be better, but the newcomers still are newbies, and we don't see this. Well we know that the MMR range is fixed (that is, it has a cap) because some players who have spoken to David Kim have been told this, and that's backed up by the diminishing returns that top Grandmaster players are seeing for each of their wins. Maybe it really is using the old 0-3000 range that WoW did after all. I know the way chess handles this is by modifying the k-factor at certain steps to make earning rating beyond a certain point more difficult, but I'm not sure if the same principle applies to MMR. I'm pretty sure WoW mmr didn't cap at 3000 as top teams playing eachother at 50% winrate capped both teams (team rating was 0-3000) in a few games which suggests their MMR had to be way over 3000 (assuming team rating moves towards mmr)
It's a much better system imo, and would fix all the league overlaps at the high x/low y areas.
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Just bring in new maps and i'll be happy!
Actually they already did
Bring new maps into tourney play and i'll be happy!
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They had a reason to why they want to have each season shorter. The beginning 8 weeks of any season is when most players are active.
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maybe they will bring in maps where it is possible to take a third as toss :D
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Why do we have seasons anyway?
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On October 09 2011 22:23 Like a Boss wrote:
Why do we have seasons anyway?
Mostly to clear out inactive players i think.
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Two months really is a bit short for a season. They should last at least 3-4 months IMO
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2 months seem a bit short for me too. Should have started of with 3 imo.
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If i play during the season lockout does my MMR go up?
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its stupid. Ley go.
less time.
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On October 09 2011 22:59 TTneko wrote:
If i play during the season lockout does my MMR go up?
Yes, your MMR will keep changin during the lock, you might get promoted if you play well during the lock
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On October 09 2011 23:05 Roynalf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 22:59 TTneko wrote:
If i play during the season lockout does my MMR go up?
Yes, your MMR will keep changin during the lock, you might get promoted if you play well during the lock
So hypothetically if I am say bronze v bronze mmr then I win 200 games in a row. I my mmr will DEFINITELY be much higher. There is no reduced mmr or anything? just a complete lockout of RANKS?
^^ thanks
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On October 09 2011 23:09 TTneko wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 23:05 Roynalf wrote:On October 09 2011 22:59 TTneko wrote:
If i play during the season lockout does my MMR go up?
Yes, your MMR will keep changin during the lock, you might get promoted if you play well during the lock So hypothetically if I am say bronze v bronze mmr then I win 200 games in a row. I my mmr will DEFINITELY be much higher. There is no reduced mmr or anything? just a complete lockout of RANKS? ^^ thanks
yes
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On October 09 2011 23:25 ToguRo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 23:09 TTneko wrote:On October 09 2011 23:05 Roynalf wrote:On October 09 2011 22:59 TTneko wrote:
If i play during the season lockout does my MMR go up?
Yes, your MMR will keep changin during the lock, you might get promoted if you play well during the lock So hypothetically if I am say bronze v bronze mmr then I win 200 games in a row. I my mmr will DEFINITELY be much higher. There is no reduced mmr or anything? just a complete lockout of RANKS? ^^ thanks yes
<3 thanks
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it says week of october 10th. Does that mean it could be 12th or 13th as well?
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can someone tell me. Is bonus pool only stop growing or its 0 after season locks?
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On October 10 2011 05:35 dde wrote:
it says week of october 10th. Does that mean it could be 12th or 13th as well?
Based upon what I remember from previous season locks:
I think the lock itself will go into effect on tuesday in NA and wednesday in EU. Pretty much similiar to patches.
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So can anyone confirm (link?), when exactly ladder lock on EU server is going to be? I wanna reach master league again and would like to know if i have to give up sleeping tonight :D
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I think the seasons will be to short.
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ya because im at 175 bonus pool and only 5bp away from getting kicked out from GM league (2nd place in na) I just dont wanna get kicked out from GM league. (I can only spend 1 or 2 bp per game which is insanely hard for me to dump them too)
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two months seems to short, i dont play too much so i prefer to have time to try and get my rank up over time, this will keep players from getting to higher leagues in my opinion.
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so every 2 months theres gonna be 2 weeks where you cant rank up?
yeah...thatll make people wanna play....
*cough*
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On October 10 2011 08:27 tarodotoxin wrote:
so every 2 months theres gonna be 2 weeks where you cant rank up?
yeah...thatll make people wanna play....
*cough*
You can get more points and move up in your division, you just can't get promoted, big deal.
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2 months is the best option since people do get more relaxed and stop playing/caring when the seasons goes on for too long.
This will keep it all active and enjoyable for the 2 months rather than 2 months of fun and blah the remaining 4.
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Good : -map refreshing
-rank refreshing
Bad (sorta): bonus pools for ppl who dont play alot get lost... (Don't know if this a bad thing tho, inactive people get rewarded enough with the rediculous pool already)
Overall view : I think it'll be good to mix in new maps, keeps people coming. And I don't think pro gamers care about the map refreshing too much, they don't play those shitty blizzard maps in tournaments anyways, ladder is more of a mechanics upkeep than strat tester. For the people worried about not getting in your league : If you can't get your old spot in a couple of days, then you probably don't deserve it either.
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i like when seasons change. makes me all tingly inside
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On October 10 2011 06:31 dde wrote:
ya because im at 175 bonus pool and only 5bp away from getting kicked out from GM league (2nd place in na) I just dont wanna get kicked out from GM league. (I can only spend 1 or 2 bp per game which is insanely hard for me to dump them too)
this is why blizzard needs to change the gm kick-out system. the lower your mmr, the easier it is to get non-trivial bonus pool spent per win, and therefore the fewer games you have to play to stay in gm.
whereas the top players are always favored and have to mass games to keep their bp down. these players are also the most likely to train privately and/or on multiple ladders/accounts and are the most likely to travel for events, meaning that the best players have arguably the most fragile grandmasters tenure (and those at or around 40-120 gm might be the most stable).
although shorter ladders seasons might also help alleviate this, as long as blizzard doesn't reduce the gm bp cap commensurately.
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Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......Now I have to grind my bonus pool. Thanks Blizzard. T.T
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On October 10 2011 08:44 summer0f89 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 06:31 dde wrote:
ya because im at 175 bonus pool and only 5bp away from getting kicked out from GM league (2nd place in na) I just dont wanna get kicked out from GM league. (I can only spend 1 or 2 bp per game which is insanely hard for me to dump them too) this is why blizzard needs to change the gm kick-out system. the lower your mmr, the easier it is to get non-trivial bonus pool spent per win, and therefore the fewer games you have to play to stay in gm. whereas the top players are always favored and have to mass games to keep their bp down. these players are also the most likely to train privately and/or on multiple ladders/accounts and are the most likely to travel for events, meaning that the best players have arguably the most fragile grandmasters tenure (and those at or around 40-120 gm might be the most stable). although shorter ladders seasons might also help alleviate this, as long as blizzard doesn't reduce the gm bp cap commensurately.
If they eliminated the GM kick-out system, then there would be no point in laddering anymore if you were rank 1 masters after the GM people were selected until the next season came out.
Maybe changing the way that you get knocked out of GM would be better?
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On October 10 2011 08:53 envisioN . wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 08:44 summer0f89 wrote:On October 10 2011 06:31 dde wrote:
ya because im at 175 bonus pool and only 5bp away from getting kicked out from GM league (2nd place in na) I just dont wanna get kicked out from GM league. (I can only spend 1 or 2 bp per game which is insanely hard for me to dump them too) this is why blizzard needs to change the gm kick-out system. the lower your mmr, the easier it is to get non-trivial bonus pool spent per win, and therefore the fewer games you have to play to stay in gm. whereas the top players are always favored and have to mass games to keep their bp down. these players are also the most likely to train privately and/or on multiple ladders/accounts and are the most likely to travel for events, meaning that the best players have arguably the most fragile grandmasters tenure (and those at or around 40-120 gm might be the most stable). although shorter ladders seasons might also help alleviate this, as long as blizzard doesn't reduce the gm bp cap commensurately. If they eliminated the GM kick-out system, then there would be no point in laddering anymore if you were rank 1 masters after the GM people were selected until the next season came out. Maybe changing the way that you get knocked out of GM would be better?
my first sentence was a recommendation to change it, not get rid of it o_O
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Upon learning the ladder locks tomorrow, I've been laddering like crazy this weekend and I got promoted to master right before the deadline!
Anyway, I had kind of a related question. Before I was promoted, I had 0 bonus pool points. After promotion, it said I had 408 points for 1v1. I've never seen this before, is this some new policy or a glitch or something? I'm glad to have them since I will be able to easily reach rank 1 master now, but I thought it was very odd to receive them.
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So I'm a little confused, is the actual season ending on october 10th or is it just the ladder lock? I just want to know if I can get a few games in before season ends
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United States12235 Posts
On October 10 2011 12:47 Days wrote:So I'm a little confused, is the actual season ending on october 10th or is it just the ladder lock? I just want to know if I can get a few games in before season ends
That's just the ladder lock.
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On October 10 2011 12:49 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 12:47 Days wrote:So I'm a little confused, is the actual season ending on october 10th or is it just the ladder lock? I just want to know if I can get a few games in before season ends That's just the ladder lock.
Ah ok thank you. So when does the actual season end?
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United States12235 Posts
On October 10 2011 12:07 jdseemoreglass wrote:Upon learning the ladder locks tomorrow, I've been laddering like crazy this weekend and I got promoted to master right before the deadline! Anyway, I had kind of a related question. Before I was promoted, I had 0 bonus pool points. After promotion, it said I had 408 points for 1v1. I've never seen this before, is this some new policy or a glitch or something? I'm glad to have them since I will be able to easily reach rank 1 master now, but I thought it was very odd to receive them.
Yes, read the Ladder Guide sticky. Master (and GM) league has a higher bonus pool accumulation rate.
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United States12235 Posts
On October 10 2011 12:50 Days wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 12:49 Excalibur_Z wrote:On October 10 2011 12:47 Days wrote:So I'm a little confused, is the actual season ending on october 10th or is it just the ladder lock? I just want to know if I can get a few games in before season ends That's just the ladder lock. Ah ok thank you. So when does the actual season end?
It's all right there in the first post -_- Lock is the week of the 10th (so probably the 11th), new season begins and current season ends on the week of the 24th (probably the 25th, 26th for EU).
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Darn it, I thought I would make it to platinum this season, with 960 pts and 60 wins in gold... what a lame system, I better get into plat season 4
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So the lock wont be until the 11th? And not 12am on October 10th?
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Is it saying Milestone awards lock when the ladder does or when it resets? Weird wording.
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i'm personally thrilled with this.
I always felt that positions in the GM league were a little too static, and felt that they should be re-evaluated on a more constant basis.
I'm also for the higher map rotation (hopefully also for better maps), and for the refreshing of the ladder. I haven't been terribly active this season, but it's always good to have a division that's not 90% inactive with only the top 10 or 15 people actually trying to get spots.
The more constant refreshing will knock people out of ladders like that, so i think it'll be better.
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I spent all weekend watching IPL and didn't ladder. lol
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YOU GUYS!!!! I know this is irrelevant but I made it TO PLAT TODAY!!!!!! after so many wins against bad platinums... my ID is cameler 336 if someone wants to pop some champagne tonight!!!
so... um... ladder isnt locked tonight!
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Am I the only one who doesnt care when the season begins or ends? why does it matter? 2 months seems great new maps every 2 months can only be a good thing
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i just logged in and gained about 400 bonus pool points for each of my ladder.
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United States12235 Posts
On October 10 2011 14:42 OopsOopsBaby wrote:
i just logged in and gained about 400 bonus pool points for each of my ladder.
Can you actually spend those points or is it just a display bug?
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I think you can spend them bruh, maybe its a way for blizzard to reward you for playing late in the nights =D
i see it too btw
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So what does the "week of october 10th" mean? Does this mean the maintenance day (which is wednesday in EU at least)? If so im gonna be in a hurry, got some bonus points to burn :D
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I actually like smaller seasons. Hate those long drawn out ones.. Gets old and boring. 2 months is really nice imo.
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I hope they add Daybreak to the ladder maps.
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I hope they keep rotating the maps with the shorter seasons, learning new ones is actually kinda interesting.
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new maps please! (new... good maps i mean.. omfg @ how bad some of the latest ones are)
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So this was wrong info? Its almost end of day and reset still didnt come
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On October 11 2011 06:43 Nawe wrote:
So this was wrong info? Its almost end of day and reset still didnt come
It says the week of, not on the day. So sometime this week, and usually it's on the patch day, so Wed for EU most likely.
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On October 11 2011 06:43 Nawe wrote:
So this was wrong info? Its almost end of day and reset still didnt come
Wasn't even supposed to reset today... It's just the lock....
It resets in a couple weeks, like the OP says.
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oh ok thx for info. didnt read carefully enough
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On October 04 2011 14:08 Tippecanoe wrote:
Wow seasons are like 9 months long and starcraft 2 seasons are now 2 months long?
Going from one extreme to another.
I think 5 - 6 months is good, but w/e blizzard is blizzard.
Someone kill this person.
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On October 11 2011 06:51 Blyadischa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:08 Tippecanoe wrote:
Wow seasons are like 9 months long and starcraft 2 seasons are now 2 months long?
Going from one extreme to another.
I think 5 - 6 months is good, but w/e blizzard is blizzard.
Someone kill this person.
For having a good idea?
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On October 11 2011 06:53 MMello wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 06:51 Blyadischa wrote:On October 04 2011 14:08 Tippecanoe wrote:
Wow seasons are like 9 months long and starcraft 2 seasons are now 2 months long?
Going from one extreme to another.
I think 5 - 6 months is good, but w/e blizzard is blizzard.
Someone kill this person. For having a good idea?
3-4 months is a pretty good season length. 5-6 is too long imo.
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If they rotate lots of new maps in I'm all for short seasons. Well only if the maps are good tournament maps or GSL/MLG maps. Itll keep the ladder very fun and interesting.
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Is the ladder locked @ Europe right now?
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This obviously only effects the top players of the masters and everyone in the GM ladder. If you play an hour a day then why would you care? I personally dont care what they do to the ladder. When I decide to play sc2, I just press the find match button until I get bored of it. Ladders, ranks, leagues, point all dont mean anything to me. (No i am not bronze I am diamond).
The only changes I am looking forward to is any map changes. I feel like several maps can be removed with 0 arguements from the players. Some of these maps are incredibly bad and very annoying to play on.
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so how does the ladder lock work exactly? You can't gain any points but your MMR still goes up, correct?
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NOOOOOOO!
since season one I've made a jump in leagues..
silver-gold-plat.
This time it feels like I didn't get anywhere cause Im still in plat..
T.T
O well, I hope the new maps are to my liking.
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anyone knows if the ladder is locked as of today?
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On October 10 2011 20:12 Gorillamask wrote:
I hope they add Daybreak to the ladder maps.
Yea, I'd love that addition. It has become my favorite map to spectate games on.
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Why don't they use GSL maps for the ladder pool... I mean seriously, they are already made. I would love to see maps like daybreak and terminus on the map pool.
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looking forward to new maps and to having more frequent map rotations in the future. i fall into the category of laddering a shitload once the new season starts and then stopping, so im looking forward to shorter seasons personally.
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On October 11 2011 09:22 SoKHo wrote:
Why don't they use GSL maps for the ladder pool... I mean seriously, they are already made. I would love to see maps like daybreak and terminus on the map pool.
Me too but it would mean to Blizzard that they cant design maps as good as custom map makers even though they made the game. At least thats my theory
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I have been so inactive this season but I will return in S4
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On October 11 2011 09:33 DreamChaser wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 09:22 SoKHo wrote:
Why don't they use GSL maps for the ladder pool... I mean seriously, they are already made. I would love to see maps like daybreak and terminus on the map pool. Me too but it would mean to Blizzard that they cant design maps as good as custom map makers even though they made the game. At least thats my theory
They already know that, now they just have to admit it
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On October 11 2011 10:11 Rotodyne wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 09:33 DreamChaser wrote:On October 11 2011 09:22 SoKHo wrote:
Why don't they use GSL maps for the ladder pool... I mean seriously, they are already made. I would love to see maps like daybreak and terminus on the map pool. Me too but it would mean to Blizzard that they cant design maps as good as custom map makers even though they made the game. At least thats my theory They already know that, now they just have to admit it
Hey man, I love destructible rocks.
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
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On October 11 2011 08:09 GotTheLife wrote:
so how does the ladder lock work exactly? You can't gain any points but your MMR still goes up, correct?
You can gain points and your MMR still changes.
You don't gain bonus pool and can't be promoted/demoted.
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Probably a good idea with the way GM works, if seasons are too long then the league will stagnate and you'll have too many top 200 players in Master's.
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On October 11 2011 10:59 jalstar wrote:
Probably a good idea with the way GM works, if seasons are too long then the league will stagnate and you'll have too many top 200 players in Master's.
Yeah you are pretty much right.
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I wonder if there is gonna be a name change?
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On October 11 2011 15:48 KazmA wrote:
I wonder if there is gonna be a name change?
No: "We’re not able to give a specific timeframe yet, but we are targeting work to begin late this year or early next year. We’ll share release plans once we’re further along in the process. " http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3229033487#1
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Yes the ladder is locked.
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Shorter seasons can't be a bad thing, especially with the improvements to the GM system. Hopefully there'll be some new maps rotating in for the new season, and we can get rid of some (Typhon Peaks? lol)
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How come this dude Clashmercy got into gm after the lock? Is it because someone dropped out?
http://sc2ranks.com/gm/
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very interesting... hmmm was hoping to push into plat this season but i guess ill have to wait till next season, which is a shame cause Battlefield 3 comes out on the 27th here.. oh man need more time off work ><><
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On October 11 2011 08:11 DeadCell wrote:NOOOOOOO! since season one I've made a jump in leagues.. silver-gold-plat. This time it feels like I didn't get anywhere cause Im still in plat.. T.T O well, I hope the new maps are to my liking.
Haha I can feel your pain :D
I got from bronze to platinum in season 1
Then my goal was to get to diamond...
.. still in plat : (
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I'm already #1 in my Plat division... IMBatman is right behind me though.
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On October 11 2011 22:42 Garnet wrote:
I'm already #1 in my Plat division... IMBatman is right behind me though.
That would make me really, really nervous.
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interesting. I don't really see why it's a big deal either way. If I had to choose i'd say 2 months was a bit short, maybe 3-5 would be solid. But either way, as long as the game play isn't effected then it doesn't really matter to me. Could be nice for a new GM every 2 months, as well as possible promotions for those having a hard time making the jump to a higher league.
Regardless, I still play starcraft. I still play the same amount. None of that has been effected, so it's all good with me!
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Anything on which maps will be on for this season? Hope they remove Backwater, Abyssal Caverns and Nerazim crypt >.>
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On October 11 2011 22:33 iNViCiOUZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 08:11 DeadCell wrote:NOOOOOOO! since season one I've made a jump in leagues.. silver-gold-plat. This time it feels like I didn't get anywhere cause Im still in plat.. T.T O well, I hope the new maps are to my liking. Haha I can feel your pain :D I got from bronze to platinum in season 1 Then my goal was to get to diamond... .. still in plat : (
Wow same happend to me.
Season 1 i jumpded from Bronze-silver-gold-plat
And now im just stuck in platinum T.T
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On October 11 2011 10:59 jalstar wrote:
Probably a good idea with the way GM works, if seasons are too long then the league will stagnate and you'll have too many top 200 players in Master's.
This is true but couldn't they just alter the way GM works rather than changing the system for everyone?
Personally i'm not too sure how i feel about this. I kinda like short seasons but i feel as though 2 months may be too short.
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Great. a fresh start. need that! after when season 3 started i got inn a bad slope just picked myself up. So a new season would be great!
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On October 11 2011 22:50 Aocowns wrote:
Anything on which maps will be on for this season? Hope they remove Backwater, Abyssal Caverns and Nerazim crypt >.>
Last season I had ridiculous win rates on Slag Pits and Delta Quadrant and they removed them. Based on that, expect to see Backwater and Shakura's go next
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On October 11 2011 22:50 Aocowns wrote:
Anything on which maps will be on for this season? Hope they remove Backwater, Abyssal Caverns and Nerazim crypt >.>
I know everyone vetoed it, and most have forgotten about it, but there's a map called Searing Crater :p
I think that'll be the first to go. But then again they've made so many WTF decisions regarding maps, you can't be certain...
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I think shorters seasons are silly.
I don't have time to play all the time, so bam, I get a chance to come back on and the season is over. This makes seasons much less enjoyable and less competitive for me. And I like to use Starcraft as a competitive outlet, as I played college tennis and this is pretty damn fun and competitive.
Boo to shorter seasons
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I have no idea why there is a 2 weeks hiatus between seasons, but it totally kills my mood
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This is a dumb question, but what does the ladder being locked mean? My friends are still laddering and getting / losing points. Does it just mean you can't get demoted or promoted? That hardly seems to matter... or has the ladder just not been locked yet?
So the actual reset happens two weeks later?
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On October 12 2011 07:29 Genome852 wrote:
This is a dumb question, but what does the ladder being locked mean? My friends are still laddering and getting / losing points. Does it just mean you can't get demoted or promoted? That hardly seems to matter... or has the ladder just not been locked yet?
So the actual reset happens two weeks later?
Correctomundo. You can still gain/lose points, but you cannot raise/drop leagues.
So basically, if you want to switch races for next season you can tank your MMR now. In your "carrer page" you'll still finish as "masters" (albeit at like rank#99) even though your MMR will be roughly bronze-silver level next season.
The ladder is locked now.
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On October 12 2011 08:37 RoboBob wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 07:29 Genome852 wrote:
This is a dumb question, but what does the ladder being locked mean? My friends are still laddering and getting / losing points. Does it just mean you can't get demoted or promoted? That hardly seems to matter... or has the ladder just not been locked yet?
So the actual reset happens two weeks later? Correctomundo. You can still gain/lose points, but you cannot raise/drop leagues. So basically, if you want to switch races for next season you can tank your MMR now. In your "carrer page" you'll still finish as "masters" (albeit at like rank#99) even though your MMR will be roughly bronze-silver level next season. The ladder is locked now.
Except if you wanted to do this, it would need to be very discreetly since throwing games is bannable now.
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Does anyone have source for wether or not they will add new maps?
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On October 12 2011 08:55 Denis Lachance wrote:
Does anyone have source for wether or not they will add new maps?
Well, considering they've added new maps to the scene after every Season so far, I would say there is a very high chance we'll be seeing new maps for Season 4.
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On October 11 2011 23:26 MilesTeg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 22:50 Aocowns wrote:
Anything on which maps will be on for this season? Hope they remove Backwater, Abyssal Caverns and Nerazim crypt >.> I know everyone vetoed it, and most have forgotten about it, but there's a map called Searing Crater :p I think that'll be the first to go. But then again they've made so many WTF decisions regarding maps, you can't be certain...
So true! I am thinking of the maps I hope they rotate out and I totally forgot about this map because I down voted that crap down so hard that I think it fell off battle.net
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Why would 2 month seasons be bad? if anything, it produces more excitement and prevents league stagnation with rerolls every two months. I can't think of a single reason why we need 6 month seasons.
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On October 12 2011 08:57 ODieN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 08:55 Denis Lachance wrote:
Does anyone have source for wether or not they will add new maps? Well, considering they've added new maps to the scene after every Season so far, I would say there is a very high chance we'll be seeing new maps for Season 4.
Taken. However every time they have done this they have (to my knowledge) tested the maps beforehand on the PTR. In addition to the fact that they haven't actually stated anywhere that they are adding new maps, this makes me a little unsure about it.
If anyone has seen them actually say they will, I'd be very interested in seeing that.
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I'm pretty sure xel naga caverns will be gone next season - its a decent map, but it feels incredibly stale playing on it nowadays and I'm sure majority of the people think the same as well. I just hope we get some (good) maps with different tile sets personally ^^
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dear god please remove searing crater.
please please please please
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Hopefully the shorter seasons means faster map rotation. If that's the case, then I'm all for it.
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On October 12 2011 09:00 Denis Lachance wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 08:57 ODieN wrote:On October 12 2011 08:55 Denis Lachance wrote:
Does anyone have source for wether or not they will add new maps? Well, considering they've added new maps to the scene after every Season so far, I would say there is a very high chance we'll be seeing new maps for Season 4. Taken. However every time they have done this they have (to my knowledge) tested the maps beforehand on the PTR. In addition to the fact that they haven't actually stated anywhere that they are adding new maps, this makes me a little unsure about it. If anyone has seen them actually say they will, I'd be very interested in seeing that.
I'm sure they'll put the PTR up somewhat soon as I'm sure there will be a patch to go along with the new season. If they don't change maps then changing the season seems pretty pointless to me.
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On October 12 2011 05:46 Djeez wrote:I have no idea why there is a 2 weeks hiatus between seasons, but it totally kills my mood
They said that one reason to shorten the season was that people got less active after the first 8 weeks of the season. One interesting cause for this might actually be the ladder lock.
First right before the lock people who suspect they might be in risk to be demoted to lower leagues stop playing and wait for the lock.
After the lock is in effect it's hard to get more ladder points for people who play with 50% winrate, have already spent their bonus pool and gain & lose equal amount of points when winning & losing. The latter group also becomes less active as generally only way to get more points is to improve their short term win-ratio or improve their MMR during the lock period (one can refer to Excalibur_Z's guide for how the point system relates with MMR).
One could hypotize that in future 2 month-long seasons people will be active especially during the first month, but their activity drops during the second month.
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On October 12 2011 10:29 Butterednuts wrote:
Hopefully the shorter seasons means faster map rotation. If that's the case, then I'm all for it.
Personally I am very worried about possible map pool changes as Blizzard has been completely silent regarding them. I hope that they have not abandoned their earlier intent to make changes to the map pool at start of each season.
(edit: fixed some spelling)
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Blizzard will probably keep a couple of the current maps in the pool and then throw a couple of new ones in.. i hope they bring back the "opolis" one of my favourite maps and looks awesome to.
But hey new maps new season new excuse not to speak to the gf for a few nights haha!!
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If they rotate maps faster I will not mind it. Not to mention all my season position feats of strength.
I really hope they bring back metal and take out xnc. XNC is just too terran favored ATM, and metal just feels like a zerg map.
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so close to masters top 8 diamond 3 seasons in a row
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Since there has been no mention of new maps and none put on the PTR it might be possible they will listen to our requests and implement a couple of the GSL maps, like Terminus and maybe Belshire Beach.
Might be just wishful thinking of course :D
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On October 12 2011 12:44 nGBeast wrote:so close to masters top 8 diamond 3 seasons in a row
oh wow, lol. Good luck =D Getting to the top 2% is no easy feat. If you need, I can help out =)
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I'd kill myself if they put Terminus in it as a gold leaguer. I'm down with large maps but that map is just ridiculous.
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i'm surprised that i'm rank 38 in my division with 400 points since i was unable to play since mid-august.. my division must not have been very active
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Wouldn't be surprised if the next map pool only contained 4 spawn position maps.
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Still no infos or PTR about Season 4 map pool... I hope there will be new maps because it would be an "useless" season for most of the players (only usefull for top-master / GM).
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Im beginning to think blizzards decision to make seasons 2 months long may have something to do with the release of HotS.
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I hope they give us 4-5 vetoes instead of 3. Some of the maps are so ridiculous, super close spawning postions along with destructible rocks.
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any info about possible new maps for season 4?
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I hope they remove searing crater/abysall caverns/backwater gulch and xel naga caverns. Plus I'd like to see atleast one other gsl map besides taldarim. And please for the love of god remove close by ground spawns on shattered temple.
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With the ladder locked does my MMR still move? i got a new account and im stuck in diamond because of the lock, but if i get the right mmr when i play season 4 placement i will be master's, correct?
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On October 13 2011 18:05 Warrice wrote:
With the ladder locked does my MMR still move? i got a new account and im stuck in diamond because of the lock, but if i get the right mmr when i play season 4 placement i will be master's, correct?
Correct. That's how it works.
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Russian Federation304 Posts
On October 12 2011 19:37 eYeball wrote:
I hope they give us 4-5 vetoes instead of 3. Some of the maps are so ridiculous, super close spawning postions along with destructible rocks.
+++
or they should delete close pos from any map where it posible
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On October 13 2011 20:21 insolentrus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 19:37 eYeball wrote:
I hope they give us 4-5 vetoes instead of 3. Some of the maps are so ridiculous, super close spawning postions along with destructible rocks. +++ or they should delete close pos from any map where it posible
Or just new better maps for this season, come on Terminus LE etc.
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so annoying how they have a 2 week period before the new season. A week is more than enough for people to spend their bonus pool. If it's too big to do in a week, then you're not an active player anyway.
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If they change the map pool every season then this 2 month season thing will be great. Otherwise, what's the point?
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On October 13 2011 23:20 Otak wrote:
so annoying how they have a 2 week period before the new season. A week is more than enough for people to spend their bonus pool. If it's too big to do in a week, then you're not an active player anyway.
Agreed, my bonus pools are depleted daily regardless of how much I banked... Even with 100 that's basically just 8-10 wins
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I'm starting to think the new season will go like this:
2 months of normal season time
2 weeks of 'lock-down' (What we are in now).
So 2.5 months per season?
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On October 14 2011 03:46 willoc wrote:
I'm starting to think the new season will go like this:
2 months of normal season time
2 weeks of 'lock-down' (What we are in now).
So 2.5 months per season?
I thought it would be 1.5 months of normal season and 2 weeks of lock-down.
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On October 14 2011 02:37 tehemperorer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 23:20 Otak wrote:
so annoying how they have a 2 week period before the new season. A week is more than enough for people to spend their bonus pool. If it's too big to do in a week, then you're not an active player anyway. Agreed, my bonus pools are depleted daily regardless of how much I banked... Even with 100 that's basically just 8-10 wins
Yeah it's pretty useless. I vote at most one week, 2 weeks is......................................
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On October 13 2011 20:23 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 20:21 insolentrus wrote:On October 12 2011 19:37 eYeball wrote:
I hope they give us 4-5 vetoes instead of 3. Some of the maps are so ridiculous, super close spawning postions along with destructible rocks. +++ or they should delete close pos from any map where it posible Or just new better maps for this season, come on Terminus LE etc.
C'mon Daybreak and Belshir beach...
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On October 14 2011 04:04 0neder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 20:23 Zaros wrote:On October 13 2011 20:21 insolentrus wrote:On October 12 2011 19:37 eYeball wrote:
I hope they give us 4-5 vetoes instead of 3. Some of the maps are so ridiculous, super close spawning postions along with destructible rocks. +++ or they should delete close pos from any map where it posible Or just new better maps for this season, come on Terminus LE etc. C'mon Daybreak and Belshir beach...
for some reason I love all the GSL maps but I'm not a fan of Belshir beach
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Is it just me or are the games harder since the lock ? I was rank 1 diamond matched vs masters, and now I am down to rank 30 :o
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On October 17 2011 21:27 ThyHate wrote:
Is it just me or are the games harder since the lock ? I was rank 1 diamond matched vs masters, and now I am down to rank 30 :o
Perhaps people are just fighting for the top spots in their division, thus more more "try hards" on ladder atm?
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Has there been any official word on new maps this season? I feel like we should have heard something by now
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On October 17 2011 22:03 ThirdDegree wrote:
Has there been any official word on new maps this season? I feel like we should have heard something by now
None. Thus I am not expecting any changes to map pool at least beginning of season 4 anymore. One can always hope that they are just not releasing the information because they want to surprise the community e.g. by adding GSL maps into the pool, but having doubts regarding this.
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IMO they need to dump like 4 maps, since there seem to be at least 2 that no one high up really plays
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Bring back metalopolis!!!
Edit: i am TOtally getting demoted at the beginning of season 4...man i suck lately.
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Can someone explain why the lock is 2 weeks. I feel like 1 week is enough. 2 weeks of lockout in a 2 month season seems stupid
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Does MMR become a little more variable during the ladder locks? I feel like during the last two locks is when I started playing higher league players, which I thought was a coincidence but now I'm starting to think both increasing and decreasing MMR is easier during the ladder lock.
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On October 14 2011 04:22 ToguRo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 04:04 0neder wrote:On October 13 2011 20:23 Zaros wrote:On October 13 2011 20:21 insolentrus wrote:On October 12 2011 19:37 eYeball wrote:
I hope they give us 4-5 vetoes instead of 3. Some of the maps are so ridiculous, super close spawning postions along with destructible rocks. +++ or they should delete close pos from any map where it posible Or just new better maps for this season, come on Terminus LE etc. C'mon Daybreak and Belshir beach... for some reason I love all the GSL maps but I'm not a fan of Belshir beach
Even the new version?
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On October 13 2011 18:06 aebriol wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 18:05 Warrice wrote:
With the ladder locked does my MMR still move? i got a new account and im stuck in diamond because of the lock, but if i get the right mmr when i play season 4 placement i will be master's, correct? Correct. That's how it works.
Could someone explain to me what the point of ladder lock is?
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On October 18 2011 02:06 tehemperorer wrote:
IMO they need to dump like 4 maps, since there seem to be at least 2 that no one high up really plays
i think they should remove 2 maps, so it make a total of 7 maps, and having 2 vetoes.
and remove tal'darim altar
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Gosh this season lock starts to get annoying, I got into plat like 3 weeks before season lock, I only played 2 of those as I was on vacation and I am playing against diamand in every single ladder game, I'm sure without this dumb lock I'd already be diamond. I have never had a bonus pool above 0 on any given day since s3 started, as any active player does, and even when I was on vacation it literally took me like 6 games to kill a weeks worth of bonus pool >.>
I hope they shorten these locks to a week when they shorten seasons as well, I sure hope they get out some shitty maps. Atleast put in like 2-3 more gsl maps, the stupid bad kids have vetos for those if they don't wanna play them, it's not like I don't have to use mine to block shit like searing crater.
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On October 18 2011 02:25 Lorch wrote:
Gosh this season lock starts to get annoying, I got into plat like 3 weeks before season lock, I only played 2 of those as I was on vacation and I am playing against diamand in every single ladder game, I'm sure without this dumb lock I'd already be diamond. I have never had a bonus pool above 0 on any given day since s3 started, as any active player does, and even when I was on vacation it literally took me like 6 games to kill a weeks worth of bonus pool >.>
I hope they shorten these locks to a week when they shorten seasons as well, I sure hope they get out some shitty maps. Atleast put in like 2-3 more gsl maps, the stupid bad kids have vetos for those if they don't wanna play them, it's not like I don't have to use mine to block shit like searing crater.
You are misinformed. The lock does not affect your MMR at all (the hidden rating that matches you up with other people). The lock simply keeps you in your current league. That's it.
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On October 18 2011 02:19 Emporio wrote:
Does MMR become a little more variable during the ladder locks? I feel like during the last two locks is when I started playing higher league players, which I thought was a coincidence but now I'm starting to think both increasing and decreasing MMR is easier during the ladder lock.
No, but it becomes more blurry to estimate the general level of the opponent based on their league & points (no demotions/promotions). It is less obvious if the opponents' MMR has increased or decreased since lock, even if you still get hints by checking his opponent's profiles. Thus it is harder to estimate are you facing higher or lower level opponents than before.
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On October 18 2011 02:21 popsilique wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 18:06 aebriol wrote:On October 13 2011 18:05 Warrice wrote:
With the ladder locked does my MMR still move? i got a new account and im stuck in diamond because of the lock, but if i get the right mmr when i play season 4 placement i will be master's, correct? Correct. That's how it works. Could someone explain to me what the point of ladder lock is?
It is to establish a final rank for a season of play and to allow people to burn through any accumulated bonus pool.
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On October 18 2011 03:10 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 02:19 Emporio wrote:
Does MMR become a little more variable during the ladder locks? I feel like during the last two locks is when I started playing higher league players, which I thought was a coincidence but now I'm starting to think both increasing and decreasing MMR is easier during the ladder lock. No, but it becomes more blurry to estimate the general level of the opponent based on their league & points (no demotions/promotions). It is less obvious if the opponents' MMR has increased or decreased since lock, even if you still get hints by checking his opponent's profiles. Thus it is harder to estimate are you facing higher or lower level opponents than before.
How so? If you are playing an "even" opponent, you and your enemy share a similar MMR. League does not matter as the system pairs you against opponents that Blizz has calculated to be on the same level as you. If you play a lower league player and it says "even match," then you know exactly what the "general level of the opponent is": the same as you.
tl;dr This confusion continues to exist regarding skill level and league. Blizz doesn't use you league to determine the evenness of a match. They use your MMR. You don't even need to check a profile. Blizz has already done the work for you in their calculations (not saying they are necessarily good or bad at it...but knowing league is not a better indication.
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On October 18 2011 03:28 skatbone wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 03:10 korona wrote:On October 18 2011 02:19 Emporio wrote:
Does MMR become a little more variable during the ladder locks? I feel like during the last two locks is when I started playing higher league players, which I thought was a coincidence but now I'm starting to think both increasing and decreasing MMR is easier during the ladder lock. No, but it becomes more blurry to estimate the general level of the opponent based on their league & points (no demotions/promotions). It is less obvious if the opponents' MMR has increased or decreased since lock, even if you still get hints by checking his opponent's profiles. Thus it is harder to estimate are you facing higher or lower level opponents than before. How so? If you are playing an "even" opponent, you and your enemy share a similar MMR. League does not matter as the system pairs you against opponents that Blizz has calculated to be on the same level as you. If you play a lower league player and it says "even match," then you know exactly what the "general level of the opponent is": the same as you. tl;dr This confusion continues to exist regarding skill level and league. Blizz doesn't use you league to determine the evenness of a match. They use your MMR. You don't even need to check a profile. Blizz has already done the work for you in their calculations (not saying they are necessarily good or bad at it...but knowing league is not a better indication.
Skatbone you missed the point. Based on the opponent league, adjusted points, his opponents adjusted points, etc. you can estimate your relative MMR level to your opponents. And of course it is always an estimate. You can refer e.g. Excalibur_Z's guide if you want to learn more about the league system, favored system & MMR.
If there is no lock you will quickly find out the general adjusted point level of your opponents (of course there are exceptions as MMR is separated & hidden value). E.g. if most of your opponents are in wood league and have ~500 adjusted points, you can estimate that your MMR is somewhat similar to typical players who have around ~500 adjusted points in wood league at that moment (division modifiers make estimating this harder thought). If most of your opponents are from lower league you can estimate that your own MMR has decreased and there is a demotion risk. But when the league lock has been in place for some time, you start to face more and more opponents that are from different leagues & have sometimes big differences in their adjusted points to your other opponents'. This is because their MMR continues to change, but they are not promoted or demoted like they would be if the leagues were open. Thus it becomes more blurry to estimate your general opponent level and changes to your own MMR during the lock.
(edit: refined wording in MMR level estimation example)
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So it says the rewards for season 3 are locked. Does this mean i cant get the top 25 masters reward anymore?
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On October 18 2011 06:06 Malpractice.248 wrote:So it says the rewards for season 3 are locked. Does this mean i cant get the top 25 masters reward anymore?
No. The locked part refers to promotion (e.g., going from bronze to silver). The end-of-season rewards are based on your rank when the servers go down for maintenance on the 27th.
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The season shrinking to 2 months only affects Grandmaster players in the grand scheme of things. It only affects how often they will decide who goes in to grandmasters. Every other league essentially remains unaffected by seasons changing minus bonus pool (irrelevant) and maps changing. In other words, if you aren't grandmaster or close to it, there really is no reason to complain about seasons getting shorter.
Edit: Fixed typo
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since you only play 1 placement match next season, does that mean the "Hot Shot" achievement is no attainable anymore?
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On October 18 2011 09:19 Carnage2280204 wrote:
since you only play 1 placement match next season, does that mean the "Hot Shot" achievement is no attainable anymore?
You can get it through team placement matches if you chose different teammates.
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On October 18 2011 02:24 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 02:06 tehemperorer wrote:
IMO they need to dump like 4 maps, since there seem to be at least 2 that no one high up really plays i think they should remove 2 maps, so it make a total of 7 maps, and having 2 vetoes. and remove tal'darim altar
Any reason why remove TDA? Best macro map in the game, why don't you like it?
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On October 18 2011 13:47 Emporio wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 09:19 Carnage2280204 wrote:
since you only play 1 placement match next season, does that mean the "Hot Shot" achievement is no attainable anymore? You can get it through team placement matches if you chose different teammates.
Indeed it is possible to get that achievement also through arranged team game placements, if one has already done his 5 placements in 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 modes (more info in the dedicated thread). Even if achievements are not too important, I myself was little annoyed when I did not get the 'hot shots' achievement when I went 5-0 in 1v1 placements at the launch as they had not yet implemented it. They implemented the achievement month or two later, but never awarded it to those who had already gone through the placements.
There might also be another possibility. Many players that I know were active during winter 2011 and started playing again during season 3 in EU server. They had to go through 5 placement matches, which means their MMR had been reset (they had done 5 placements already during season 1 in same game mode and were also originally from EU server). I have no knowledge what triggered this MMR reset. One could speculate that it was because they were inactive for a whole season or inactive for certain amount of months. I guess we get more information regarding this when the season 4 begins (if people who were active in S2, but inactive in S3 have their MMR reset). This was also noted in Excalibur_Z's ladder guide thread.
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Hopefully they put some decent maps in. I played significantly less this season because of the bad maps. Every other season I finished top 8, this one I'm finishing top 50 with a bonus pool of around 250pts.
Probably hated them because I'm Zerg. Something about these maps I just found stupidly frustrating to play on. Bad design, no flow, rocks f'n everywhere and most boring tile set to look at.
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Less than a week before the new season starts and there hasn't been any word on what new maps they're using.
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cool cool... i don't think it's too soon....
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On October 18 2011 13:50 tuho12345 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 02:24 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote:On October 18 2011 02:06 tehemperorer wrote:
IMO they need to dump like 4 maps, since there seem to be at least 2 that no one high up really plays i think they should remove 2 maps, so it make a total of 7 maps, and having 2 vetoes. and remove tal'darim altar Any reason why remove TDA? Best macro map in the game, why don't you like it?
probably hates 4gate :D
taldarim pvp is just painful
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On October 04 2011 14:24 Shade_CsT wrote:
Shorter season = more dynamic map pool. I like it.
That is if they change their map pool every season.. Blizzard has never been the one of releasing things on time, let alone in a rapid rate.
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On October 18 2011 15:24 Sanchonator wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 13:50 tuho12345 wrote:On October 18 2011 02:24 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote:
IMO they need to dump like 4 maps, since there seem to be at least 2 that no one high up really plays i think they should remove 2 maps, so it make a total of 7 maps, and having 2 vetoes. and remove tal'darim altar
Someone asking to decrease the map-pool? Hell no, I think they should increase it and increase the frequency of rotations. The map pool is dull and unexciting when its stagnated like it has. Having up to 15 maps with only 3 vetos, with 5 of those maps coming from community efforts (Iccup, GSL etc) and the others being blizzards would be awesome imo...
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Does MMR decay?
ie let's say i am vs'ing GM and i am favored; do i have to keep laddering to keep my MMR up or can i just wait till new season and try to get GM next season with my current MMR.
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On October 18 2011 15:36 LAKERS wrote:
Does MMR decay?
ie let's say i am vs'ing GM and i am favored; do i have to keep laddering to keep my MMR up or can i just wait till new season and try to get GM next season with my current MMR.
MMR does not decay.
Edit: Crap. Ninjaed.
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I hope i will play next season more than 17 games...
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I guess thats all right, really short season though haha. Though a high rate of turnover on maps would be nice
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On October 18 2011 15:55 syno wrote:I hope i will play next season more than 17 games...
That is a big problem for many regarding the short 2 month seasons. If you don't have time to play actively, but e.g. on some weekends here and there, it is not motivating that your ladder points are reset 'all the time'. E.g: "Let's play the placement matches. And the next time when you have time to play the ladder has been reset again" :/
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any mention about the maps yet?
I really didnt have time to ladder this season...stuck at 7 wins.. And all the free time I spent laddering in kr guest acount, or watching tourneys..
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So can I still get promoted atm or do I need to wait till the 24th?
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On October 20 2011 04:49 AzraeL- wrote:
So can I still get promoted atm or do I need to wait till the 24th?
Lock=no promotion. You'll have to wait.
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wat about the map?
so anxious TT
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Blizzard hasn't said anything about maps. Unless they unveil new maps at Blizzcon, I have a bad feeling they're just going to do a half-assed shuffle.
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On October 18 2011 02:24 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 02:06 tehemperorer wrote:
IMO they need to dump like 4 maps, since there seem to be at least 2 that no one high up really plays i think they should remove 2 maps, so it make a total of 7 maps, and having 2 vetoes. and remove tal'darim altar
Oh god no. TDA is one of the only good maps that the ladder has.
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On October 20 2011 05:25 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 02:24 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote:On October 18 2011 02:06 tehemperorer wrote:
IMO they need to dump like 4 maps, since there seem to be at least 2 that no one high up really plays i think they should remove 2 maps, so it make a total of 7 maps, and having 2 vetoes. and remove tal'darim altar Oh god no. TDA is one of the only good maps that the ladder has.
If I could veto TDA for PvP, i'd agree with you 100%.. PvT, PvZ, lovely stuff!!! PvP? not so much :'(
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On October 20 2011 05:29 CSN_Kaelaris wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 05:25 Skwid1g wrote:On October 18 2011 02:24 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote:On October 18 2011 02:06 tehemperorer wrote:
IMO they need to dump like 4 maps, since there seem to be at least 2 that no one high up really plays i think they should remove 2 maps, so it make a total of 7 maps, and having 2 vetoes. and remove tal'darim altar Oh god no. TDA is one of the only good maps that the ladder has. If I could veto TDA for PvP, i'd agree with you 100%.. PvT, PvZ, lovely stuff!!! PvP? not so much :'(
Yeah, I'd agree. But for the other 8 match-ups its my favorite map ~_~.
I honestly hope they implement vetos based on match-up sometime soon.
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I started thinking about which maps I want in the new map pool but then remembered that it's basically the GSL map pool so just use that one. Blizzard could also use some community made maps because some of them are actually pretty damn good.
On the other hand I know that Blizzard will probably do some stupid stunt again so I will just list maps that under no circumstance should make a reapearance from last season:
- backwater gulch
- nerazim crypt
- searing crater
- typhon peaks
... and of course no close positions anymore.
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So does the NA ladder start the new season on Tuesday morning?
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On October 21 2011 08:11 Emporio wrote:
So does the NA ladder start the new season on Tuesday morning? Typically it is Monday night/Tuesday morning where they do the reset so yes.
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On October 21 2011 08:11 Emporio wrote:
So does the NA ladder start the new season on Tuesday morning?
Sigh, nobody but blizzard knows for sure... Just keep playing. It comes when it comes [=
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So When does the reset happen k
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I think, if anything 2 month seasons make it more competitive. Its much easier to stay focused on laddering for 2 month than for 3.
I have 230 Wins this season (so about 460 games more or less) and no bonus pool and it wasn't that hard. And no, I dont have that much time, I work, have a family etc.
People that say 2 month seasons will make it harder for them to get to masters, since they only play on weekends just have no clue how the ladder works. I'm guessing S3 is their first season, because they make it out as if they would need to do the bronze to masters grind every season.
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So I guess the ladder reset will happen in EU tomorrow?
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I think this is a little silly. Why would Blizzard make shorter seasons to encourage playing and then give less bonus pool to the 98% of players?
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On October 24 2011 18:10 tetrismaan wrote:
So I guess the ladder reset will happen in EU tomorrow?
Maintenance day was always Wednesday here in EU. It will happen the 26th.
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On October 24 2011 18:19 Shade_CsT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 18:10 tetrismaan wrote:
So I guess the ladder reset will happen in EU tomorrow? Maintenance day was always Wednesday here in EU. It will happen the 26th.
Failblog.org.
Well, then I have 2 days of training ahead of me.
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What time is the ladder resetting for US? Thought it was early Monday morning, but I don't recall normal maintenance times.
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On October 25 2011 01:31 MuseMike wrote:
What time is the ladder resetting for US? Thought it was early Monday morning, but I don't recall normal maintenance times.
NA is always on Tuesday, so I would assume tomorrow.
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I'm really not liking how long the ladder lock is going on for now compared to how long the season is. I'm in gold. I just got matched up against (and rolled by) a Masters player. Either I'm way overdue for another promotion, or this guy really needs a demotion. Either way, the fact that this is happening really delegitamizes the meaning of the leagues.
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Does anyone know when maintenance usually happen on NA? I play on NA from EU so if i t happens in the night time it may be during the day for me.
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On October 25 2011 04:35 Lorch wrote:
Does anyone know when maintenance usually happen on NA? I play on NA from EU so if i t happens in the night time it may be during the day for me.
ITs usually tuesday mornings for NA
Edit: So afternoon evening for you.
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On October 25 2011 04:35 Lorch wrote:
Does anyone know when maintenance usually happen on NA? I play on NA from EU so if i t happens in the night time it may be during the day for me.
For WoW its 3am to 11am PST usually. I would assume it would be something similar but I could be wrong.
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I wish it is tomorrow, but it will probably be Wednesday for EU as you guys said .. I'm just too pumped to see if I finally get to Diamond, also at least I have more time to play
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You could/can still improve your MMR even when the ladder is "locked" like it has been for the past 2 weeks right?
I started playing around 2 weeks ago so thats why im asking ><
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On October 25 2011 05:29 Pulimuli wrote:
You could/can still improve your MMR even when the ladder is "locked" like it has been for the past 2 weeks right?
I started playing around 2 weeks ago so thats why im asking ><
Yes, you can. MMR isn't locked. You just can't get a promotion/demotion until the next season and you don't gain bonus pool points to allow everyone to catch up.
Personally, I like the idea of shorter seasons (though I thought 3 months was perfect). I'm in the same situation as the OP having only an hour or so to play per day, and I found that it was quite possible to get behind on your bonus pool with basically no way to catch back up. The shorter seasons mean that if you have to take a significant break or something (say a 3 week vacation...the reason why I was behind in Season 2) then you don't have to worry about catching up because the season will be reset fairly soon.
I do agree the lock should maybe be 1 week if the season is 2 months, though.
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On October 25 2011 04:32 TKHawkins wrote:
I'm really not liking how long the ladder lock is going on for now compared to how long the season is. I'm in gold. I just got matched up against (and rolled by) a Masters player. Either I'm way overdue for another promotion, or this guy really needs a demotion. Either way, the fact that this is happening really delegitamizes the meaning of the leagues.
If that's the case, you'll most likely be promoted immediately after the lock is done after your first placement match. Since MMR still moves during the lock, I see no problem with shorter seasons and a 2 week lock to use excess bonus pool.
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It's season 4 on SEA server now.
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For those that are complaining about still having a bonus pool: longer seasons doesn't fix this issue, since you'll accumulate more bonus pool over a long season than a short one. Remember season 1? If you picked up the game towards the end, you'd have thousands of bonus pool points right off the bat, and no way to spend them all in a 3-week ladder lock period.
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Isn't it a reset at 24th for all?
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I was 100% positive I would be promoted to masters when the new season starts.
Then I played over the weekend on a tilt. 16 losses to 6 wins... ouch.
I was still playing a few master players by the end of it so... I have my fingers crossed!
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damn i didn't know the reset was coming XD
i was liek what the f*** i dont get promoted when i play against diamond as a gold player xD
anyone know when the reset is ? some day i guess ?
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On October 25 2011 05:44 TechSC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 04:32 TKHawkins wrote:
I'm really not liking how long the ladder lock is going on for now compared to how long the season is. I'm in gold. I just got matched up against (and rolled by) a Masters player. Either I'm way overdue for another promotion, or this guy really needs a demotion. Either way, the fact that this is happening really delegitamizes the meaning of the leagues. If that's the case, you'll most likely be promoted immediately after the lock is done after your first placement match. Since MMR still moves during the lock, I see no problem with shorter seasons and a 2 week lock to use excess bonus pool.
Oh I know, the same thing happened last season too (I keep getting promoted to plat, take a break from the game, demoted back to gold cause I'm rusty, and then repromoted). The problem is, for about ~25% of the season now (2 weeks out of 2 months), what league you are in is meaningless. I've beaten numerous plats today, played a few masters, but also got matched up against (and lost to) a silver player. Does that mean I'm doing well? Or should that guy who is in silver really be in masters, plat? Or is he a true silver? Am I playing plat players with MMRs that should be demoted back to gold, or "true" plats. With promotions now being locked for so long, there is really no way to tell.
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New season is upon us! Yaaay! not much of a difference though :p (SEA server).
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Who cares how long or how short seasons are. Play, get better MMR, become a better player, season is irrelevant. If you're dedicated and play you'll get better, it wont matter if its season 27 or season 3.
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On October 25 2011 07:48 Exdeelol wrote:
Who cares how long or how short seasons are. Play, get better MMR, become a better player, season is irrelevant. If you're dedicated and play you'll get better, it wont matter if its season 27 or season 3.
True, that is the right attitude to have. And the distinction between leagues under diamond have always been fairly meaningless. Still, with Blizzard limiting stat tracking SO much (I have a sheet of paper next to my computer where I tally mark my win/loss ratio since the game won't display it), it's frustrating when they start limiting your data even more.
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On October 25 2011 07:48 Exdeelol wrote:
Who cares how long or how short seasons are. Play, get better MMR, become a better player, season is irrelevant. If you're dedicated and play you'll get better, it wont matter if its season 27 or season 3.
It's nice to have a quantifier of your skill though. That's the whole point of ranks - to see how you're doing. During lock, it's pretty meaningless. If that's 1/4 of the time you play then it's kind of silly.
And no, ranks are not for matching you against the right players. It's entirely possible to do that without giving anyone a rank and simply keeping the secret MMR we already have.
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On October 25 2011 07:52 TKHawkins wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 07:48 Exdeelol wrote:
Who cares how long or how short seasons are. Play, get better MMR, become a better player, season is irrelevant. If you're dedicated and play you'll get better, it wont matter if its season 27 or season 3. True, that is the right attitude to have. And the distinction between leagues under diamond have always been fairly meaningless. Still, with Blizzard limiting stat tracking SO much (I have a sheet of paper next to my computer where I tally mark my win/loss ratio since the game won't display it), it's frustrating when they start limiting your data even more.
LOOOL dude that's just sad. Your on a computer for Christ's sake. Use your resources at hand so you don't need a piece of paper to keep track of your win/loss stats.
Go download SC2 Gears and set it up so it saves all your 1v1 games.. TADA problem solved. Now you have more stats than you can handle! Enjoy :D
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And I continue on my futile attempt to get the 1000 win kerrigan avatar before HotS comes out and we start working on new portraits.
The problem is I'm also trying to hit masters at the same time, so I don't want to play just retarded games.
Oh well... maybe I'll mass game the few months before hots comes out.
I definitely find the 2 week lock period now taking up such a large portion of the league time odd. I was playing against a few silver league players, had me wondering if my loss streak was really that bad...
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On October 25 2011 07:58 Shiladie wrote:
And I continue on my futile attempt to get the 1000 win kerrigan avatar before HotS comes out and we start working on new portraits.
The problem is I'm also trying to hit masters at the same time, so I don't want to play just retarded games.
Oh well... maybe I'll mass game the few months before hots comes out.
I definitely find the 2 week lock period now taking up such a large portion of the league time odd. I was playing against a few silver league players, had me wondering if my loss streak was really that bad...
Your win count for portraits carries on after the season change so don't worry about that.
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Still nothing. It's past Oct 24 in pretty much every countries now.
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On October 25 2011 07:44 TKHawkins wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 05:44 TechSC wrote:On October 25 2011 04:32 TKHawkins wrote:
I'm really not liking how long the ladder lock is going on for now compared to how long the season is. I'm in gold. I just got matched up against (and rolled by) a Masters player. Either I'm way overdue for another promotion, or this guy really needs a demotion. Either way, the fact that this is happening really delegitamizes the meaning of the leagues. If that's the case, you'll most likely be promoted immediately after the lock is done after your first placement match. Since MMR still moves during the lock, I see no problem with shorter seasons and a 2 week lock to use excess bonus pool. Oh I know, the same thing happened last season too (I keep getting promoted to plat, take a break from the game, demoted back to gold cause I'm rusty, and then repromoted). The problem is, for about ~25% of the season now (2 weeks out of 2 months), what league you are in is meaningless. I've beaten numerous plats today, played a few masters, but also got matched up against (and lost to) a silver player. Does that mean I'm doing well? Or should that guy who is in silver really be in masters, plat? Or is he a true silver? Am I playing plat players with MMRs that should be demoted back to gold, or "true" plats. With promotions now being locked for so long, there is really no way to tell.
I know a few Masters that just tank their MMR really low after the lock to prevent being demoted yet have like a bronze league MMR. Then when the new season starts, they get demoted to bronze but work their way back to Masters so they'll have like a 100-1 win ratio lol.
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I definitely get a little demotivated during ladder lock because I know no matter how well I play, I won't get promoted. The hope of seeing that promotion screen pop up after every game really helps me keep playing game after game.
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On October 25 2011 16:57 K3Nyy wrote:
I know a few Masters that just tank their MMR really low after the lock to prevent being demoted yet have like a bronze league MMR. Then when the new season starts, they get demoted to bronze but work their way back to Masters so they'll have like a 100-1 win ratio lol.
they'll just fail pretty hard. if they start pwning in bronze league they will start playing against diamond/master pretty soon and when they get into master they won't have alot of points. they will lose points after promotion compared to those who have higher mmr and start getting >15 points for a win and losing <10 points for a loss in master league.
so dunno why would anyone do that
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Dont think New Season is coming tuesday. Here in europe we have 11 o clock in the morning and no new season arrived.
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On October 25 2011 17:57 ProxySilmaril wrote:
Dont think New Season is coming tuesday. Here in europe we have 11 o clock in the morning and no new season arrived.
It's been up all day here in SEA.
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On October 25 2011 18:04 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 17:57 ProxySilmaril wrote:
Dont think New Season is coming tuesday. Here in europe we have 11 o clock in the morning and no new season arrived. It's been up all day here in SEA.
Can we get a screencap or Dl of the new 2v2 maps please?
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All the patches and resets took place at Wednesday 3:00 am CET so far, so i think this one will be no different
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Wilko yeah thats for EU but when does it happen on NA?? Any status there?
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SEA like 8 hours ahead of EU, US like 8 hours behind but yet somehow, someway, EU always gets updated last.
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So probably for tomorrow morning will we get the new Season in EU?
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EU is wednesday morning, like every patch ever
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I just received a notification on battle.net that it would be shutting down in 15 minutes. So I`m guessing we wont have to wait much long for season 4. T.T what to do in the mean time?
Ok I cant log in anymore.
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Battle.net just went down for me on the american server. I'm assuming it's for maintenance, and hopefully the ladder reset/patch?
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The American Servers have just gone down. Looks like the new season will be up and running in the next few hours.
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Whatabout the map changes? did they remove any of the clearly shit maps? or does blizzard simply not comprehend that they are not good at making good and balanced maps? and also are they still going with the expand and you die maps in 2v2,3v3 and 4v4?
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On October 25 2011 20:47 KAmaKAsa wrote:
Whatabout the map changes? did they remove any of the clearly shit maps? or does blizzard simply not comprehend that they are not good at making good and balanced maps? and also are they still going with the expand and you die maps in 2v2,3v3 and 4v4?
the 1v1 map pool didnt get any changes
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On October 25 2011 20:47 KAmaKAsa wrote:
Whatabout the map changes? did they remove any of the clearly shit maps? or does blizzard simply not comprehend that they are not good at making good and balanced maps? and also are they still going with the expand and you die maps in 2v2,3v3 and 4v4?
The transition between ladder seasons is generally a time when we take the opportunity to make adjustments to the ladder map pool. In Season 4, the 1v1 pool will remain unchanged, but we will be removing the following maps from the 2v2 map pool:
(4)Khaydarin Depths
(8)Tempest
They will be replaced with the following maps:
(4)Lunar Colony V
(8)Magma Core
We have chosen to remove Khaydarin Depths and Tempest from the 2v2 ladder pool because expanding can be a challenge for certain team compositions on these maps, and they aren’t as balanced as we would prefer for other team compositions. We also wanted to focus on maps that start 2v2 teammates closer together at the beginning of a match. Lunar Colony V and Magma Core are maps that should address these issues.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3424692558#1
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o.O Metalopolis is back and 2 maps are out, though don't remember their names.
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US is back online. Season 4 started
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really liking the new map pool all my vetos are gone :D
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On October 25 2011 22:34 falafelnr1 wrote:
Promoted. FUCK YEAH!
I see you are writing from Sweden - you got US-account, or did the european servers update?
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I would love to know that too lol :D
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On October 25 2011 22:07 diddLY wrote:
US is back online. Season 4 started
Yup I'm happy they took out some of my downvoted 1v1 maps, but I would have liked a bigger map pool.
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On October 25 2011 22:38 TisToK wrote:I see you are writing from Sweden - you got US-account, or did the european servers update?
EU is still in Season 3.
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On October 25 2011 07:44 TKHawkins wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 05:44 TechSC wrote:On October 25 2011 04:32 TKHawkins wrote:
I'm really not liking how long the ladder lock is going on for now compared to how long the season is. I'm in gold. I just got matched up against (and rolled by) a Masters player. Either I'm way overdue for another promotion, or this guy really needs a demotion. Either way, the fact that this is happening really delegitamizes the meaning of the leagues. If that's the case, you'll most likely be promoted immediately after the lock is done after your first placement match. Since MMR still moves during the lock, I see no problem with shorter seasons and a 2 week lock to use excess bonus pool. Oh I know, the same thing happened last season too (I keep getting promoted to plat, take a break from the game, demoted back to gold cause I'm rusty, and then repromoted). The problem is, for about ~25% of the season now (2 weeks out of 2 months), what league you are in is meaningless. I've beaten numerous plats today, played a few masters, but also got matched up against (and lost to) a silver player. Does that mean I'm doing well? Or should that guy who is in silver really be in masters, plat? Or is he a true silver? Am I playing plat players with MMRs that should be demoted back to gold, or "true" plats. With promotions now being locked for so long, there is really no way to tell.
How many games do you play in a season? Your MMR seems really volatile to be getting that broad a range.
I'm top diamond and only ever face other diamonds and master's league. Haven't seen anyone from Platinum in ages and I didn't play any from Gold or lower this season.
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On October 25 2011 17:57 bLah. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 16:57 K3Nyy wrote:
I know a few Masters that just tank their MMR really low after the lock to prevent being demoted yet have like a bronze league MMR. Then when the new season starts, they get demoted to bronze but work their way back to Masters so they'll have like a 100-1 win ratio lol. they'll just fail pretty hard. if they start pwning in bronze league they will start playing against diamond/master pretty soon and when they get into master they won't have alot of points. they will lose points after promotion compared to those who have higher mmr and start getting >15 points for a win and losing <10 points for a loss in master league. so dunno why would anyone do that
If he has the MMR to be matched up with Rain 3 times in a row, he can definitely make it back to where he was before. He can just keep winning until he gets his MMR back. The point was to make his win/loss ratio look amazing.
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On October 25 2011 23:15 muzzy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 07:44 TKHawkins wrote:On October 25 2011 05:44 TechSC wrote:On October 25 2011 04:32 TKHawkins wrote:
I'm really not liking how long the ladder lock is going on for now compared to how long the season is. I'm in gold. I just got matched up against (and rolled by) a Masters player. Either I'm way overdue for another promotion, or this guy really needs a demotion. Either way, the fact that this is happening really delegitamizes the meaning of the leagues. If that's the case, you'll most likely be promoted immediately after the lock is done after your first placement match. Since MMR still moves during the lock, I see no problem with shorter seasons and a 2 week lock to use excess bonus pool. Oh I know, the same thing happened last season too (I keep getting promoted to plat, take a break from the game, demoted back to gold cause I'm rusty, and then repromoted). The problem is, for about ~25% of the season now (2 weeks out of 2 months), what league you are in is meaningless. I've beaten numerous plats today, played a few masters, but also got matched up against (and lost to) a silver player. Does that mean I'm doing well? Or should that guy who is in silver really be in masters, plat? Or is he a true silver? Am I playing plat players with MMRs that should be demoted back to gold, or "true" plats. With promotions now being locked for so long, there is really no way to tell. How many games do you play in a season? Your MMR seems really volatile to be getting that broad a range. I'm top diamond and only ever face other diamonds and master's league. Haven't seen anyone from Platinum in ages and I didn't play any from Gold or lower this season.
Around 100-150. My MMR shouldn't be fluctuating that wildly by now. It has more to do with the fact that those players in a normal situation would have been promoted/demoted by now. it's not to bad at the start of the lock since people haven't had enough time to make serious ladder runs, but by the end of the lock, it starts to get pretty bad.
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When do they hand out the feats for league ranking?
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Wow metalopolis is back )))) and they took out all the maps that had my vetoes but I actually think I don't really need to use vetoes this season maybe abyssal caverns but so far so good.
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EPT
