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On October 05 2011 05:32 AutomatonOmega wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 04:22 Trowa127 wrote:On October 05 2011 04:14 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 05 2011 03:16 AnalThermometer wrote:On October 05 2011 03:06 AutomatonOmega wrote:
The whole thing comes down to Cruncher having relied on playing abusively and turtling up on 3 bases in a sim city while waiting for 3/3/3 200/200 and steamrolling. If he'd explored the game and put in the work to be legitimately good like Hasu he'd still be in the scene and still thriving.
He never outgrew the 'bag of tricks' phase in his pro-gaming, and this is the end result. Out of interest, could one of the Idra's fans explain to me what ISN'T classified as abusive play or relying on a bag of tricks? It seems if Cruncher 4gates, 6 gates, builds a Void Ray etc. that's abusive play which won't last long. Yet at the same time if you play extremely safe and turtle while building up your army that's also labelled as abusive play and some kind of trick. I AM CONFUSE. Leaning heavily on turtling with force fields and colossi and/or blink IMO. Abusing overpowered synergies without exploring other options and developing a playstyle around them that has difficulty competing when not allowed to adhere to that one, narrow strategy. Many protoss use these tactics, but most (again, like Hasu, sorry if it seems like I'm on his sack or something) that are actually skilled at the game employ them in an otherwise well-rounded repertoire that includes many other builds and strategies and doesn't fall apart in their absence. The times he didn't do the above that I observed were times where he was pulling rabbits out of hats to 'change it up' with phoenix harass. His mechanics, game sense, and multitasking were never up to the caliber of the likes of Naniwa or Hasuobs, or even Incontrol. This is all something he had the power to change himself but didn't out of laziness. All you really have to do to see the abusive Protoss players is track their performance since 1.3 and 1.4. Many started basically sucking, because they didn't have the skill to modify their approaches. Post-1.3, many in Korea started kinda sucking against zerg just because of the way the patch went to begin with, but it was a downhill decline ever since for the Protoss players that weren't able to play without their bags of tricks. You are so stupid it hurts. Which other strategies should he have been using, out of interest? You are basically abusing him for using strats that worked, then calling him out on his post 1.3 performance when ALL match ups were showing sub 50% win rates for Protoss players, even Koreans. I don't see you telling Idra to stop using muta/ling because you deem it 'abusive' for some abiguous reason only you are aware off. The part about his mechanics and him being 'lazy' are the best - how do you even know this? Hes taken games off exceptional players with very solid play! Hes quitting sc2 to go to SCHOOL. SCHOOL. How is that a bad thing? Jesus these threads man.. Good luck to Cruncher. I thought he was pretty manner, especially at MLG trying to shake Idras hand. For the record I'm an Idra fan also, I just hate retards. gl Cruncher! You hanging off of Cruncher's nuts is a great indication of my intellectual capacity, thx. Look at other Protoss that don't have to turtle for the first 10-15 minutes of a game to get wins off of competent players. I'm biased against people that aren't entertaining to spectate. Listen to the State of the Game guys talk about Cruncher's play being boring and unimaginative, then come back and justify your point of view. Regardless of your feelings as to Cruncher's relative skill vs the rest of the field, you can't say the fucker's exciting to watch and not come across as a forced apologetic. Also he's only going back to SCHOOL, SCHOOL because he can't make it as a pro gamer. Since we're on the subject of Idra, you don't see him going to SCHOOL, SCHOOL because he doesn't fucking have to. He was contemplating pursuing an engineering degree or something when he went pro the first time.
You need to stop sucking IdrA's dick and let others do what they want. Protoss turtle or not, just like Zerg playing cheesy or turtle as well. Everyone has different opinion. THey play how the fuck they want. They do what the fuck they want for their future.
Yes the economy is shitty. But studying for the better future is not the bad thing. You can't play SC until you're 65 years old and retire. So study is a lil break or wiser decision.
Again, he has better result than most of progamers even in EG or other team. So how the hell do you know he can't make it as a progamer?
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 05 2011 06:16 Emporio wrote:
The fact that there are people here arguing that going to college is a financially stupid move compared to trying to make a living in progaming blows my mind.
Idra fans got to somehow make it so that cruncher is leaving only progaming to go onto a worse path in life....
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whoa this thread took a nose dive REAL quick
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On October 05 2011 06:32 danson wrote:
whoa this thread took a nose dive REAL quick
Very true, was meant as a GL to cruncher, not a subtle slap in the face to him. Doesn't really matter what you think of his playstyle, he was a manner guy for the most part and didn't deserve most of the flak he got
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Good luck in school Cruncher!
Its sad that he is going though. I liked him as a player and as a person.
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On October 05 2011 06:08 AutomatonOmega wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 05:59 Trowa127 wrote:On October 05 2011 05:32 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 05 2011 04:22 Trowa127 wrote:On October 05 2011 04:14 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 05 2011 03:16 AnalThermometer wrote:On October 05 2011 03:06 AutomatonOmega wrote:
The whole thing comes down to Cruncher having relied on playing abusively and turtling up on 3 bases in a sim city while waiting for 3/3/3 200/200 and steamrolling. If he'd explored the game and put in the work to be legitimately good like Hasu he'd still be in the scene and still thriving.
He never outgrew the 'bag of tricks' phase in his pro-gaming, and this is the end result. Out of interest, could one of the Idra's fans explain to me what ISN'T classified as abusive play or relying on a bag of tricks? It seems if Cruncher 4gates, 6 gates, builds a Void Ray etc. that's abusive play which won't last long. Yet at the same time if you play extremely safe and turtle while building up your army that's also labelled as abusive play and some kind of trick. I AM CONFUSE. Leaning heavily on turtling with force fields and colossi and/or blink IMO. Abusing overpowered synergies without exploring other options and developing a playstyle around them that has difficulty competing when not allowed to adhere to that one, narrow strategy. Many protoss use these tactics, but most (again, like Hasu, sorry if it seems like I'm on his sack or something) that are actually skilled at the game employ them in an otherwise well-rounded repertoire that includes many other builds and strategies and doesn't fall apart in their absence. The times he didn't do the above that I observed were times where he was pulling rabbits out of hats to 'change it up' with phoenix harass. His mechanics, game sense, and multitasking were never up to the caliber of the likes of Naniwa or Hasuobs, or even Incontrol. This is all something he had the power to change himself but didn't out of laziness. All you really have to do to see the abusive Protoss players is track their performance since 1.3 and 1.4. Many started basically sucking, because they didn't have the skill to modify their approaches. Post-1.3, many in Korea started kinda sucking against zerg just because of the way the patch went to begin with, but it was a downhill decline ever since for the Protoss players that weren't able to play without their bags of tricks. You are so stupid it hurts. Which other strategies should he have been using, out of interest? You are basically abusing him for using strats that worked, then calling him out on his post 1.3 performance when ALL match ups were showing sub 50% win rates for Protoss players, even Koreans. I don't see you telling Idra to stop using muta/ling because you deem it 'abusive' for some abiguous reason only you are aware off. The part about his mechanics and him being 'lazy' are the best - how do you even know this? Hes taken games off exceptional players with very solid play! Hes quitting sc2 to go to SCHOOL. SCHOOL. How is that a bad thing? Jesus these threads man.. Good luck to Cruncher. I thought he was pretty manner, especially at MLG trying to shake Idras hand. For the record I'm an Idra fan also, I just hate retards. gl Cruncher! You hanging off of Cruncher's nuts is a great indication of my intellectual capacity, thx. Look at other Protoss that don't have to turtle for the first 10-15 minutes of a game to get wins off of competent players. I'm biased against people that aren't entertaining to spectate. Listen to the State of the Game guys talk about Cruncher's play being boring and unimaginative, then come back and justify your point of view. Regardless of your feelings as to Cruncher's relative skill vs the rest of the field, you can't say the fucker's exciting to watch and not come across as a forced apologetic. Also he's only going back to SCHOOL, SCHOOL because he can't make it as a pro gamer. Since we're on the subject of Idra, you don't see him going to SCHOOL, SCHOOL because he doesn't fucking have to. He was contemplating pursuing an engineering degree or something when he went pro the first time. How the fuck do you know why he went back to school? You don't know him, I don't know him, its pure speculation. Maybe he went back to school because its a much safer career path and he wanted some security? And we weren't actually on the subject of Idra, you just seem to be randomly bringing him up to justify your own stupidity. I'm not even hanging off his nuts. Hes a mid tier protoss player, he beat some good players, hes boring but his style works. Macro Zerg games are often just as boring but they work, that is all thats important. I don't need to listen to Incontrol and Tyler to formulate my own opinion of a semi-succesful player. You are just bashing him for no reason, and looking like a retard in the process. Stop trolling threads because you think you're smart. Again, gl Cruncher. You accomplished a lot with some notable wins, and no doubt had some good experiences to take into later life. Gl with your studies. Here in the United States, going back to college isn't necessarily a safer career path considering the current state of the economy. Cruncher already had a job capable of paying post-collegiate salary, assuming he was capable of being competitive. Just returning to school by itself doesn't guarantee a position upon graduation, many of the more lucrative fields are fusterclucked with candidates specifically because of the state of the US economy and its affect on the job market. By leaving the pro gaming scene, Cruncher might've relegated himself to a blue-collar existence with a degree that means virtually nothing if he lacks the connections to land a job immediately upon graduating. However, had he stayed a pro gamer, he was already on an excellent team and had he grown and developed as a player after the nerfs, he would've continued to turn heads. But I doubt he had what it takes to do that. His team had also acquired Naniwa, so the likelihood of Cruncher continuing to represent on any respectable level without changing races was low to nil. And why the fuck do your arguments always have to go back to me being stupid? Express your opinions without personal attacks or eat a dick.
Nobody cares about your subjective opinions and misguided statements on career choices. I'm doing my higher education in America right now, and I can sure as hell say, as long as you are not doing your education in a lower rung college, and not just trying to scrape through with just a pass grade, college education gives you an excellent foundation to launch your career. Also unless your aim in life is to flip a burger in McDonalds or to just make money to survive, college education helps you immensely in achieving your goals (especially career related ones). If not for the education, just the networking opportunities that you get in college are priceless, and the entire experience is worth every single penny you pay. Look at the census info from US government Bureau of Labor Statistics. (scroll down to the table 5 and look at median value for Males over 25 with a college degree and compare it with those without)
Click
The first prize for winning an MLG is 5000 $. And more often than not a Korean is going to win it. Most graduates from my college make more money than that along with additional benefits. Hell, with all due respect to IdrA, I'm pretty sure I'm going to be making more money than him per year (on average over a period of 10 years), when I graduate. E-sports is fine if your entire passion in life lies with it. But if your goal is to make money and do other things, then you're better off with college education and alternate career paths instead of betting your life on a video game whose balance and longevity lies in the hands of a third person or entity (in this case, Blizzard).
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a plash lmao!!!!!! all he did was win beat idra on tsl 3 thats about it xD
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On October 05 2011 06:24 AutomatonOmega wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 06:23 fortheGG wrote:Happy for him, at some point everyone has to make a choice and I hope this is the right one for him. You hanging off of Cruncher's nuts is a great indication of my intellectual capacity, thx.
Your need to resort to personal attacks is a great indication of your intellectual capacity. Did you even read the post that was quoting? I didn't start the personal attacks, ass.
yes you did.
also cruncher was just as good as he was before, even after he stopped playing as 'abusive' (he still was kinda turtlish but not as bad as before)
he made it into the championship bracket of MLG every time he attended. thats fucking good.
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On October 05 2011 03:54 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 03:40 SySLeif wrote:
It happens, I'm glad he's making sure he is getting the most out of school though. You can't play SC2 for the rest of your life. Yeah and its pretty impressive what he's done so far while being in school. His entire career up to this point has been while being a full-time student. He's probably just getting into the higher level, more difficult classes which take considerably more time. People seem to forget he was never the kind of person who put his whole life into SC2 or something. It was a hobby for him. Just because he made it as far and farther in tournaments than full-time pros, doesn't mean he was a full-time pro
Agreed it is very impressive. He has a good natural grasp for it, and I think only a certain personality of people do.
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Be cool, stay in school!
gg hf Cruncher!
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Yep. Ahh Time for him to spread his wings, leave the community for something better.
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On October 05 2011 06:50 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 06:08 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 05 2011 05:59 Trowa127 wrote:On October 05 2011 05:32 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 05 2011 04:22 Trowa127 wrote:On October 05 2011 04:14 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 05 2011 03:16 AnalThermometer wrote:On October 05 2011 03:06 AutomatonOmega wrote:
The whole thing comes down to Cruncher having relied on playing abusively and turtling up on 3 bases in a sim city while waiting for 3/3/3 200/200 and steamrolling. If he'd explored the game and put in the work to be legitimately good like Hasu he'd still be in the scene and still thriving.
He never outgrew the 'bag of tricks' phase in his pro-gaming, and this is the end result. Out of interest, could one of the Idra's fans explain to me what ISN'T classified as abusive play or relying on a bag of tricks? It seems if Cruncher 4gates, 6 gates, builds a Void Ray etc. that's abusive play which won't last long. Yet at the same time if you play extremely safe and turtle while building up your army that's also labelled as abusive play and some kind of trick. I AM CONFUSE. Leaning heavily on turtling with force fields and colossi and/or blink IMO. Abusing overpowered synergies without exploring other options and developing a playstyle around them that has difficulty competing when not allowed to adhere to that one, narrow strategy. Many protoss use these tactics, but most (again, like Hasu, sorry if it seems like I'm on his sack or something) that are actually skilled at the game employ them in an otherwise well-rounded repertoire that includes many other builds and strategies and doesn't fall apart in their absence. The times he didn't do the above that I observed were times where he was pulling rabbits out of hats to 'change it up' with phoenix harass. His mechanics, game sense, and multitasking were never up to the caliber of the likes of Naniwa or Hasuobs, or even Incontrol. This is all something he had the power to change himself but didn't out of laziness. All you really have to do to see the abusive Protoss players is track their performance since 1.3 and 1.4. Many started basically sucking, because they didn't have the skill to modify their approaches. Post-1.3, many in Korea started kinda sucking against zerg just because of the way the patch went to begin with, but it was a downhill decline ever since for the Protoss players that weren't able to play without their bags of tricks. You are so stupid it hurts. Which other strategies should he have been using, out of interest? You are basically abusing him for using strats that worked, then calling him out on his post 1.3 performance when ALL match ups were showing sub 50% win rates for Protoss players, even Koreans. I don't see you telling Idra to stop using muta/ling because you deem it 'abusive' for some abiguous reason only you are aware off. The part about his mechanics and him being 'lazy' are the best - how do you even know this? Hes taken games off exceptional players with very solid play! Hes quitting sc2 to go to SCHOOL. SCHOOL. How is that a bad thing? Jesus these threads man.. Good luck to Cruncher. I thought he was pretty manner, especially at MLG trying to shake Idras hand. For the record I'm an Idra fan also, I just hate retards. gl Cruncher! You hanging off of Cruncher's nuts is a great indication of my intellectual capacity, thx. Look at other Protoss that don't have to turtle for the first 10-15 minutes of a game to get wins off of competent players. I'm biased against people that aren't entertaining to spectate. Listen to the State of the Game guys talk about Cruncher's play being boring and unimaginative, then come back and justify your point of view. Regardless of your feelings as to Cruncher's relative skill vs the rest of the field, you can't say the fucker's exciting to watch and not come across as a forced apologetic. Also he's only going back to SCHOOL, SCHOOL because he can't make it as a pro gamer. Since we're on the subject of Idra, you don't see him going to SCHOOL, SCHOOL because he doesn't fucking have to. He was contemplating pursuing an engineering degree or something when he went pro the first time. How the fuck do you know why he went back to school? You don't know him, I don't know him, its pure speculation. Maybe he went back to school because its a much safer career path and he wanted some security? And we weren't actually on the subject of Idra, you just seem to be randomly bringing him up to justify your own stupidity. I'm not even hanging off his nuts. Hes a mid tier protoss player, he beat some good players, hes boring but his style works. Macro Zerg games are often just as boring but they work, that is all thats important. I don't need to listen to Incontrol and Tyler to formulate my own opinion of a semi-succesful player. You are just bashing him for no reason, and looking like a retard in the process. Stop trolling threads because you think you're smart. Again, gl Cruncher. You accomplished a lot with some notable wins, and no doubt had some good experiences to take into later life. Gl with your studies. Here in the United States, going back to college isn't necessarily a safer career path considering the current state of the economy. Cruncher already had a job capable of paying post-collegiate salary, assuming he was capable of being competitive. Just returning to school by itself doesn't guarantee a position upon graduation, many of the more lucrative fields are fusterclucked with candidates specifically because of the state of the US economy and its affect on the job market. By leaving the pro gaming scene, Cruncher might've relegated himself to a blue-collar existence with a degree that means virtually nothing if he lacks the connections to land a job immediately upon graduating. However, had he stayed a pro gamer, he was already on an excellent team and had he grown and developed as a player after the nerfs, he would've continued to turn heads. But I doubt he had what it takes to do that. His team had also acquired Naniwa, so the likelihood of Cruncher continuing to represent on any respectable level without changing races was low to nil. And why the fuck do your arguments always have to go back to me being stupid? Express your opinions without personal attacks or eat a dick. Nobody cares about your subjective opinions and misguided statements on career choices. I'm doing my higher education in America right now, and I can sure as hell say, as long as you are not doing your education in a lower rung college, and not just trying to scrape through with just a pass grade, college education gives you an excellent foundation to launch your career. Also unless your aim in life is to flip a burger in McDonalds or to just make money to survive, college education helps you immensely in achieving your goals (especially career related ones). If not for the education, just the networking opportunities that you get in college are priceless, and the entire experience is worth every single penny you pay. Look at the census info from US government Bureau of Labor Statistics. (scroll down to the table 5 and look at median value for Males over 25 with a college degree and compare it with those without) ClickThe first prize for winning an MLG is 5000 $. And more often than not a Korean is going to win it. Most graduates from my college make more money than that along with additional benefits. Hell, with all due respect to IdrA, I'm pretty sure I'm going to be making more money than him per year (on average over a period of 10 years), when I graduate. E-sports is fine if your entire passion in life lies with it. But if your goal is to make money and do other things, then you're better off with college education and alternate career paths instead of betting your life on a video game whose balance and longevity lies in the hands of a third person or entity (in this case, Blizzard).
Idra doesn't get paid only on his winnings.
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On October 05 2011 07:53 Dexington wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 06:50 Piledriver wrote:On October 05 2011 06:08 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 05 2011 05:59 Trowa127 wrote:On October 05 2011 05:32 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 05 2011 04:22 Trowa127 wrote:On October 05 2011 04:14 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 05 2011 03:16 AnalThermometer wrote:On October 05 2011 03:06 AutomatonOmega wrote:
The whole thing comes down to Cruncher having relied on playing abusively and turtling up on 3 bases in a sim city while waiting for 3/3/3 200/200 and steamrolling. If he'd explored the game and put in the work to be legitimately good like Hasu he'd still be in the scene and still thriving.
He never outgrew the 'bag of tricks' phase in his pro-gaming, and this is the end result. Out of interest, could one of the Idra's fans explain to me what ISN'T classified as abusive play or relying on a bag of tricks? It seems if Cruncher 4gates, 6 gates, builds a Void Ray etc. that's abusive play which won't last long. Yet at the same time if you play extremely safe and turtle while building up your army that's also labelled as abusive play and some kind of trick. I AM CONFUSE. Leaning heavily on turtling with force fields and colossi and/or blink IMO. Abusing overpowered synergies without exploring other options and developing a playstyle around them that has difficulty competing when not allowed to adhere to that one, narrow strategy. Many protoss use these tactics, but most (again, like Hasu, sorry if it seems like I'm on his sack or something) that are actually skilled at the game employ them in an otherwise well-rounded repertoire that includes many other builds and strategies and doesn't fall apart in their absence. The times he didn't do the above that I observed were times where he was pulling rabbits out of hats to 'change it up' with phoenix harass. His mechanics, game sense, and multitasking were never up to the caliber of the likes of Naniwa or Hasuobs, or even Incontrol. This is all something he had the power to change himself but didn't out of laziness. All you really have to do to see the abusive Protoss players is track their performance since 1.3 and 1.4. Many started basically sucking, because they didn't have the skill to modify their approaches. Post-1.3, many in Korea started kinda sucking against zerg just because of the way the patch went to begin with, but it was a downhill decline ever since for the Protoss players that weren't able to play without their bags of tricks. You are so stupid it hurts. Which other strategies should he have been using, out of interest? You are basically abusing him for using strats that worked, then calling him out on his post 1.3 performance when ALL match ups were showing sub 50% win rates for Protoss players, even Koreans. I don't see you telling Idra to stop using muta/ling because you deem it 'abusive' for some abiguous reason only you are aware off. The part about his mechanics and him being 'lazy' are the best - how do you even know this? Hes taken games off exceptional players with very solid play! Hes quitting sc2 to go to SCHOOL. SCHOOL. How is that a bad thing? Jesus these threads man.. Good luck to Cruncher. I thought he was pretty manner, especially at MLG trying to shake Idras hand. For the record I'm an Idra fan also, I just hate retards. gl Cruncher! You hanging off of Cruncher's nuts is a great indication of my intellectual capacity, thx. Look at other Protoss that don't have to turtle for the first 10-15 minutes of a game to get wins off of competent players. I'm biased against people that aren't entertaining to spectate. Listen to the State of the Game guys talk about Cruncher's play being boring and unimaginative, then come back and justify your point of view. Regardless of your feelings as to Cruncher's relative skill vs the rest of the field, you can't say the fucker's exciting to watch and not come across as a forced apologetic. Also he's only going back to SCHOOL, SCHOOL because he can't make it as a pro gamer. Since we're on the subject of Idra, you don't see him going to SCHOOL, SCHOOL because he doesn't fucking have to. He was contemplating pursuing an engineering degree or something when he went pro the first time. How the fuck do you know why he went back to school? You don't know him, I don't know him, its pure speculation. Maybe he went back to school because its a much safer career path and he wanted some security? And we weren't actually on the subject of Idra, you just seem to be randomly bringing him up to justify your own stupidity. I'm not even hanging off his nuts. Hes a mid tier protoss player, he beat some good players, hes boring but his style works. Macro Zerg games are often just as boring but they work, that is all thats important. I don't need to listen to Incontrol and Tyler to formulate my own opinion of a semi-succesful player. You are just bashing him for no reason, and looking like a retard in the process. Stop trolling threads because you think you're smart. Again, gl Cruncher. You accomplished a lot with some notable wins, and no doubt had some good experiences to take into later life. Gl with your studies. Here in the United States, going back to college isn't necessarily a safer career path considering the current state of the economy. Cruncher already had a job capable of paying post-collegiate salary, assuming he was capable of being competitive. Just returning to school by itself doesn't guarantee a position upon graduation, many of the more lucrative fields are fusterclucked with candidates specifically because of the state of the US economy and its affect on the job market. By leaving the pro gaming scene, Cruncher might've relegated himself to a blue-collar existence with a degree that means virtually nothing if he lacks the connections to land a job immediately upon graduating. However, had he stayed a pro gamer, he was already on an excellent team and had he grown and developed as a player after the nerfs, he would've continued to turn heads. But I doubt he had what it takes to do that. His team had also acquired Naniwa, so the likelihood of Cruncher continuing to represent on any respectable level without changing races was low to nil. And why the fuck do your arguments always have to go back to me being stupid? Express your opinions without personal attacks or eat a dick. Nobody cares about your subjective opinions and misguided statements on career choices. I'm doing my higher education in America right now, and I can sure as hell say, as long as you are not doing your education in a lower rung college, and not just trying to scrape through with just a pass grade, college education gives you an excellent foundation to launch your career. Also unless your aim in life is to flip a burger in McDonalds or to just make money to survive, college education helps you immensely in achieving your goals (especially career related ones). If not for the education, just the networking opportunities that you get in college are priceless, and the entire experience is worth every single penny you pay. Look at the census info from US government Bureau of Labor Statistics. (scroll down to the table 5 and look at median value for Males over 25 with a college degree and compare it with those without) ClickThe first prize for winning an MLG is 5000 $. And more often than not a Korean is going to win it. Most graduates from my college make more money than that along with additional benefits. Hell, with all due respect to IdrA, I'm pretty sure I'm going to be making more money than him per year (on average over a period of 10 years), when I graduate. E-sports is fine if your entire passion in life lies with it. But if your goal is to make money and do other things, then you're better off with college education and alternate career paths instead of betting your life on a video game whose balance and longevity lies in the hands of a third person or entity (in this case, Blizzard). Idra doesn't get paid only on his winnings.
I know, that's why I said on an average over 10 years. I highly doubt if he's going to command the same salary that he does over a long period of time. Of course, I could be totally wrong, but I would be happy if e-sports had such a stable business model and potential for growth.
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I can't believe people are actually lampooning a guy for choosing his education over video games. What in the holy christ is wrong with some of you people. Even if he never makes a dime from his education, it's still a better god damn choice than video games. Knowledge and education are power, not being good at Protoss in a video game. Snap back to the real world for a second folks.
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I see alot of people swearing at each other here and it hurts... there's one thing to argue on a point and there's another thing to be rude to each other...
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On October 05 2011 08:59 Brainling wrote:
I can't believe people are actually lampooning a guy for choosing his education over video games. What in the holy christ is wrong with some of you people. Even if he never makes a dime from his education, it's still a better god damn choice than video games. Knowledge and education are power, not being good at Protoss in a video game. Snap back to the real world for a second folks.
No thanks, I'll stick to this world. ^_^
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On October 05 2011 08:06 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 07:53 Dexington wrote:On October 05 2011 06:50 Piledriver wrote:On October 05 2011 06:08 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 05 2011 05:59 Trowa127 wrote:On October 05 2011 05:32 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 05 2011 04:22 Trowa127 wrote:On October 05 2011 04:14 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 05 2011 03:16 AnalThermometer wrote:On October 05 2011 03:06 AutomatonOmega wrote:
The whole thing comes down to Cruncher having relied on playing abusively and turtling up on 3 bases in a sim city while waiting for 3/3/3 200/200 and steamrolling. If he'd explored the game and put in the work to be legitimately good like Hasu he'd still be in the scene and still thriving.
He never outgrew the 'bag of tricks' phase in his pro-gaming, and this is the end result. Out of interest, could one of the Idra's fans explain to me what ISN'T classified as abusive play or relying on a bag of tricks? It seems if Cruncher 4gates, 6 gates, builds a Void Ray etc. that's abusive play which won't last long. Yet at the same time if you play extremely safe and turtle while building up your army that's also labelled as abusive play and some kind of trick. I AM CONFUSE. Leaning heavily on turtling with force fields and colossi and/or blink IMO. Abusing overpowered synergies without exploring other options and developing a playstyle around them that has difficulty competing when not allowed to adhere to that one, narrow strategy. Many protoss use these tactics, but most (again, like Hasu, sorry if it seems like I'm on his sack or something) that are actually skilled at the game employ them in an otherwise well-rounded repertoire that includes many other builds and strategies and doesn't fall apart in their absence. The times he didn't do the above that I observed were times where he was pulling rabbits out of hats to 'change it up' with phoenix harass. His mechanics, game sense, and multitasking were never up to the caliber of the likes of Naniwa or Hasuobs, or even Incontrol. This is all something he had the power to change himself but didn't out of laziness. All you really have to do to see the abusive Protoss players is track their performance since 1.3 and 1.4. Many started basically sucking, because they didn't have the skill to modify their approaches. Post-1.3, many in Korea started kinda sucking against zerg just because of the way the patch went to begin with, but it was a downhill decline ever since for the Protoss players that weren't able to play without their bags of tricks. You are so stupid it hurts. Which other strategies should he have been using, out of interest? You are basically abusing him for using strats that worked, then calling him out on his post 1.3 performance when ALL match ups were showing sub 50% win rates for Protoss players, even Koreans. I don't see you telling Idra to stop using muta/ling because you deem it 'abusive' for some abiguous reason only you are aware off. The part about his mechanics and him being 'lazy' are the best - how do you even know this? Hes taken games off exceptional players with very solid play! Hes quitting sc2 to go to SCHOOL. SCHOOL. How is that a bad thing? Jesus these threads man.. Good luck to Cruncher. I thought he was pretty manner, especially at MLG trying to shake Idras hand. For the record I'm an Idra fan also, I just hate retards. gl Cruncher! You hanging off of Cruncher's nuts is a great indication of my intellectual capacity, thx. Look at other Protoss that don't have to turtle for the first 10-15 minutes of a game to get wins off of competent players. I'm biased against people that aren't entertaining to spectate. Listen to the State of the Game guys talk about Cruncher's play being boring and unimaginative, then come back and justify your point of view. Regardless of your feelings as to Cruncher's relative skill vs the rest of the field, you can't say the fucker's exciting to watch and not come across as a forced apologetic. Also he's only going back to SCHOOL, SCHOOL because he can't make it as a pro gamer. Since we're on the subject of Idra, you don't see him going to SCHOOL, SCHOOL because he doesn't fucking have to. He was contemplating pursuing an engineering degree or something when he went pro the first time. How the fuck do you know why he went back to school? You don't know him, I don't know him, its pure speculation. Maybe he went back to school because its a much safer career path and he wanted some security? And we weren't actually on the subject of Idra, you just seem to be randomly bringing him up to justify your own stupidity. I'm not even hanging off his nuts. Hes a mid tier protoss player, he beat some good players, hes boring but his style works. Macro Zerg games are often just as boring but they work, that is all thats important. I don't need to listen to Incontrol and Tyler to formulate my own opinion of a semi-succesful player. You are just bashing him for no reason, and looking like a retard in the process. Stop trolling threads because you think you're smart. Again, gl Cruncher. You accomplished a lot with some notable wins, and no doubt had some good experiences to take into later life. Gl with your studies. Here in the United States, going back to college isn't necessarily a safer career path considering the current state of the economy. Cruncher already had a job capable of paying post-collegiate salary, assuming he was capable of being competitive. Just returning to school by itself doesn't guarantee a position upon graduation, many of the more lucrative fields are fusterclucked with candidates specifically because of the state of the US economy and its affect on the job market. By leaving the pro gaming scene, Cruncher might've relegated himself to a blue-collar existence with a degree that means virtually nothing if he lacks the connections to land a job immediately upon graduating. However, had he stayed a pro gamer, he was already on an excellent team and had he grown and developed as a player after the nerfs, he would've continued to turn heads. But I doubt he had what it takes to do that. His team had also acquired Naniwa, so the likelihood of Cruncher continuing to represent on any respectable level without changing races was low to nil. And why the fuck do your arguments always have to go back to me being stupid? Express your opinions without personal attacks or eat a dick. Nobody cares about your subjective opinions and misguided statements on career choices. I'm doing my higher education in America right now, and I can sure as hell say, as long as you are not doing your education in a lower rung college, and not just trying to scrape through with just a pass grade, college education gives you an excellent foundation to launch your career. Also unless your aim in life is to flip a burger in McDonalds or to just make money to survive, college education helps you immensely in achieving your goals (especially career related ones). If not for the education, just the networking opportunities that you get in college are priceless, and the entire experience is worth every single penny you pay. Look at the census info from US government Bureau of Labor Statistics. (scroll down to the table 5 and look at median value for Males over 25 with a college degree and compare it with those without) ClickThe first prize for winning an MLG is 5000 $. And more often than not a Korean is going to win it. Most graduates from my college make more money than that along with additional benefits. Hell, with all due respect to IdrA, I'm pretty sure I'm going to be making more money than him per year (on average over a period of 10 years), when I graduate. E-sports is fine if your entire passion in life lies with it. But if your goal is to make money and do other things, then you're better off with college education and alternate career paths instead of betting your life on a video game whose balance and longevity lies in the hands of a third person or entity (in this case, Blizzard). Idra doesn't get paid only on his winnings. I know, that's why I said on an average over 10 years. I highly doubt if he's going to command the same salary that he does over a long period of time. Of course, I could be totally wrong, but I would be happy if e-sports had such a stable business model and potential for growth.
Agreed.
Team TSL in Korea paid their top players about $30,000 US dollars a year (source). Being in Code S gets you $1000 every tourney. Assuming you are one of the 32 best players on the planet and manage to stay in Code S for a whole year, you can earn just north of $40,000 in salary. Unless you're Nestea or MVP, your annual earnings will likely be $50,000 tops (assuming the player wins smaller tourneys now and then), and that's for being one of the best 32 players on the planet in one of the most competitive possible careers.
I don't know how much non-Koreans (or even non-TSL members) get paid, but I suspect it is comparable or somewhere south of what is possible in Korea, especially since Koreans take all the big foreign tourneys anyway. To top it off, your longevity is as good as the shelf life of a video game. And certainly, 90% of pro players are not top tier and playing in Code S every month, so earning even $30000-$50000 annually is likely out of reach.
To the vast majority of players who are good enough to be progamers, but not good enough to be Nestea or MVP, going to college and studying something useful is definitely a better long term investment, in spite of what a few bitter recent graduates may have to say about it.
All that being said, I respect progamers for doing what they love. Not everyone has financial stability at the top of their list of priorities, at least not at the age that most progamers are at. But given the financial reality that is e-sports today, it's hard to fault someone for putting school first.
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Good luck cruncher!! Getting an education is tough, but the parties make it worth it =)
It's crazy how some sc2 fans think giving up gaming for schooling is a bad idea. In 10 years, all these teams, prize pools, and fame will be a shell of their former selves. Even if it was going stronger, noone can be good forever, and from the current state of the game, Koreans will take all the money. This is not the nba/nfl/mlb where you can make enough money in a short window to last you forever. At best, they will be making what 100k a year? Save that over 10 years and you still cannot retire, you will need a job. Unless you are lucky enough to get a commentator/coach, good luck getting a regular job with "MLG champion 2013 Kentucky" as your selling point on your resume.
This is a game and a hobby, unless we pull a Korea and Cruncher becomes the next Boxer, there is no way he can support himself and his family in the future by being a "pro" gamer. If anything, other "pros" need to plan their own future as well.
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EPT
