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On October 05 2011 05:25 mrpylons wrote:
I dont like how everyone is/was mean to Cruncher, his playstyle was completely fine. RIP
Uh, hes not dead or anything.
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Best of luck to Cruncher!
After being such a great player, some time for school might not be such a bad idea.
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On October 05 2011 04:22 Trowa127 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 04:14 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 05 2011 03:16 AnalThermometer wrote:On October 05 2011 03:06 AutomatonOmega wrote:
The whole thing comes down to Cruncher having relied on playing abusively and turtling up on 3 bases in a sim city while waiting for 3/3/3 200/200 and steamrolling. If he'd explored the game and put in the work to be legitimately good like Hasu he'd still be in the scene and still thriving.
He never outgrew the 'bag of tricks' phase in his pro-gaming, and this is the end result. Out of interest, could one of the Idra's fans explain to me what ISN'T classified as abusive play or relying on a bag of tricks? It seems if Cruncher 4gates, 6 gates, builds a Void Ray etc. that's abusive play which won't last long. Yet at the same time if you play extremely safe and turtle while building up your army that's also labelled as abusive play and some kind of trick. I AM CONFUSE. Leaning heavily on turtling with force fields and colossi and/or blink IMO. Abusing overpowered synergies without exploring other options and developing a playstyle around them that has difficulty competing when not allowed to adhere to that one, narrow strategy. Many protoss use these tactics, but most (again, like Hasu, sorry if it seems like I'm on his sack or something) that are actually skilled at the game employ them in an otherwise well-rounded repertoire that includes many other builds and strategies and doesn't fall apart in their absence. The times he didn't do the above that I observed were times where he was pulling rabbits out of hats to 'change it up' with phoenix harass. His mechanics, game sense, and multitasking were never up to the caliber of the likes of Naniwa or Hasuobs, or even Incontrol. This is all something he had the power to change himself but didn't out of laziness. All you really have to do to see the abusive Protoss players is track their performance since 1.3 and 1.4. Many started basically sucking, because they didn't have the skill to modify their approaches. Post-1.3, many in Korea started kinda sucking against zerg just because of the way the patch went to begin with, but it was a downhill decline ever since for the Protoss players that weren't able to play without their bags of tricks. You are so stupid it hurts. Which other strategies should he have been using, out of interest? You are basically abusing him for using strats that worked, then calling him out on his post 1.3 performance when ALL match ups were showing sub 50% win rates for Protoss players, even Koreans. I don't see you telling Idra to stop using muta/ling because you deem it 'abusive' for some abiguous reason only you are aware off. The part about his mechanics and him being 'lazy' are the best - how do you even know this? Hes taken games off exceptional players with very solid play! Hes quitting sc2 to go to SCHOOL. SCHOOL. How is that a bad thing? Jesus these threads man.. Good luck to Cruncher. I thought he was pretty manner, especially at MLG trying to shake Idras hand. For the record I'm an Idra fan also, I just hate retards. gl Cruncher!
You hanging off of Cruncher's nuts is a great indication of my intellectual capacity, thx.
Look at other Protoss that don't have to turtle for the first 10-15 minutes of a game to get wins off of competent players. I'm biased against people that aren't entertaining to spectate. Listen to the State of the Game guys talk about Cruncher's play being boring and unimaginative, then come back and justify your point of view. Regardless of your feelings as to Cruncher's relative skill vs the rest of the field, you can't say the fucker's exciting to watch and not come across as a forced apologetic.
Also he's only going back to SCHOOL, SCHOOL because he can't make it as a pro gamer. Since we're on the subject of Idra, you don't see him going to SCHOOL, SCHOOL because he doesn't fucking have to. He was contemplating pursuing an engineering degree or something when he went pro the first time.
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On October 05 2011 05:21 Eufouria wrote:
I wasn't the biggest Cruncher fan because I thought the style he used in the TSL was really boring, but to criticise him for using a style that worked makes my head hurt. Frankly I think every zerg is more boring to watch then July, but I don't criticise them for choosing to play the style that wins them games.
You have to admit though that idras prediction of Cruncher became true. The "abusive" style people criticized Cruncher for gets bad -> Cruncher gets bad -> Cruncher quits. So yes, it's stupid to criticize him for using a style that won him games, but you can criticize him for not being able to win games once that style stopped working so well. (But frankly, I don't give a shit. But idra-fanboyism-hate is not better than idra-fanboyism.)
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On October 05 2011 05:33 blackone wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 05:21 Eufouria wrote:
I wasn't the biggest Cruncher fan because I thought the style he used in the TSL was really boring, but to criticise him for using a style that worked makes my head hurt. Frankly I think every zerg is more boring to watch then July, but I don't criticise them for choosing to play the style that wins them games. You have to admit though that idras prediction of Cruncher became true. The "abusive" style people criticized Cruncher for gets bad -> Cruncher gets bad -> Cruncher quits. So yes, it's stupid to criticize him for using a style that won him games, but you can criticize him for not being able to win games once that style stopped working so well. (But frankly, I don't give a shit. But idra-fanboyism-hate is not better than idra-fanboyism.)
Cruncher is relatively just as good now as he was then. Beating Idra doesn't make someone instantly amazing.
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On October 05 2011 05:32 AutomatonOmega wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 04:22 Trowa127 wrote:On October 05 2011 04:14 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 05 2011 03:16 AnalThermometer wrote:On October 05 2011 03:06 AutomatonOmega wrote:
The whole thing comes down to Cruncher having relied on playing abusively and turtling up on 3 bases in a sim city while waiting for 3/3/3 200/200 and steamrolling. If he'd explored the game and put in the work to be legitimately good like Hasu he'd still be in the scene and still thriving.
He never outgrew the 'bag of tricks' phase in his pro-gaming, and this is the end result. Out of interest, could one of the Idra's fans explain to me what ISN'T classified as abusive play or relying on a bag of tricks? It seems if Cruncher 4gates, 6 gates, builds a Void Ray etc. that's abusive play which won't last long. Yet at the same time if you play extremely safe and turtle while building up your army that's also labelled as abusive play and some kind of trick. I AM CONFUSE. Leaning heavily on turtling with force fields and colossi and/or blink IMO. Abusing overpowered synergies without exploring other options and developing a playstyle around them that has difficulty competing when not allowed to adhere to that one, narrow strategy. Many protoss use these tactics, but most (again, like Hasu, sorry if it seems like I'm on his sack or something) that are actually skilled at the game employ them in an otherwise well-rounded repertoire that includes many other builds and strategies and doesn't fall apart in their absence. The times he didn't do the above that I observed were times where he was pulling rabbits out of hats to 'change it up' with phoenix harass. His mechanics, game sense, and multitasking were never up to the caliber of the likes of Naniwa or Hasuobs, or even Incontrol. This is all something he had the power to change himself but didn't out of laziness. All you really have to do to see the abusive Protoss players is track their performance since 1.3 and 1.4. Many started basically sucking, because they didn't have the skill to modify their approaches. Post-1.3, many in Korea started kinda sucking against zerg just because of the way the patch went to begin with, but it was a downhill decline ever since for the Protoss players that weren't able to play without their bags of tricks. You are so stupid it hurts. Which other strategies should he have been using, out of interest? You are basically abusing him for using strats that worked, then calling him out on his post 1.3 performance when ALL match ups were showing sub 50% win rates for Protoss players, even Koreans. I don't see you telling Idra to stop using muta/ling because you deem it 'abusive' for some abiguous reason only you are aware off. The part about his mechanics and him being 'lazy' are the best - how do you even know this? Hes taken games off exceptional players with very solid play! Hes quitting sc2 to go to SCHOOL. SCHOOL. How is that a bad thing? Jesus these threads man.. Good luck to Cruncher. I thought he was pretty manner, especially at MLG trying to shake Idras hand. For the record I'm an Idra fan also, I just hate retards. gl Cruncher! You hanging off of Cruncher's nuts is a great indication of my intellectual capacity, thx. Look at other Protoss that don't have to turtle for the first 10-15 minutes of a game to get wins off of competent players. I'm biased against people that aren't entertaining to spectate. Listen to the State of the Game guys talk about Cruncher's play being boring and unimaginative, then come back and justify your point of view. Regardless of your feelings as to Cruncher's relative skill vs the rest of the field, you can't say the fucker's exciting to watch and not come across as a forced apologetic. Also he's only going back to SCHOOL, SCHOOL because he can't make it as a pro gamer. Since we're on the subject of Idra, you don't see him going to SCHOOL, SCHOOL because he doesn't fucking have to. He was contemplating pursuing an engineering degree or something when he went pro the first time.
How the fuck do you know why he went back to school? You don't know him, I don't know him, its pure speculation. Maybe he went back to school because its a much safer career path and he wanted some security? And we weren't actually on the subject of Idra, you just seem to be randomly bringing him up to justify your own stupidity.
I'm not even hanging off his nuts. Hes a mid tier protoss player, he beat some good players, hes boring but his style works. Macro Zerg games are often just as boring but they work, that is all thats important. I don't need to listen to Incontrol and Tyler to formulate my own opinion of a semi-succesful player. You are just bashing him for no reason, and looking like a retard in the process, claiming that hes quitting because his style no longer works, when if you look at his TLPD his most recent opponents have been stupidly high level (Boxer, Demuslim, Hero, Puma, Rain, Mana) and you are criticising him for losing to some of the best players in sc2? Stop trolling threads because you think you're smart.
Again, gl Cruncher. You accomplished a lot with some notable wins, and no doubt had some good experiences to take into later life. Gl with your studies.
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On October 05 2011 05:59 Trowa127 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 05:32 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 05 2011 04:22 Trowa127 wrote:On October 05 2011 04:14 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 05 2011 03:16 AnalThermometer wrote:On October 05 2011 03:06 AutomatonOmega wrote:
The whole thing comes down to Cruncher having relied on playing abusively and turtling up on 3 bases in a sim city while waiting for 3/3/3 200/200 and steamrolling. If he'd explored the game and put in the work to be legitimately good like Hasu he'd still be in the scene and still thriving.
He never outgrew the 'bag of tricks' phase in his pro-gaming, and this is the end result. Out of interest, could one of the Idra's fans explain to me what ISN'T classified as abusive play or relying on a bag of tricks? It seems if Cruncher 4gates, 6 gates, builds a Void Ray etc. that's abusive play which won't last long. Yet at the same time if you play extremely safe and turtle while building up your army that's also labelled as abusive play and some kind of trick. I AM CONFUSE. Leaning heavily on turtling with force fields and colossi and/or blink IMO. Abusing overpowered synergies without exploring other options and developing a playstyle around them that has difficulty competing when not allowed to adhere to that one, narrow strategy. Many protoss use these tactics, but most (again, like Hasu, sorry if it seems like I'm on his sack or something) that are actually skilled at the game employ them in an otherwise well-rounded repertoire that includes many other builds and strategies and doesn't fall apart in their absence. The times he didn't do the above that I observed were times where he was pulling rabbits out of hats to 'change it up' with phoenix harass. His mechanics, game sense, and multitasking were never up to the caliber of the likes of Naniwa or Hasuobs, or even Incontrol. This is all something he had the power to change himself but didn't out of laziness. All you really have to do to see the abusive Protoss players is track their performance since 1.3 and 1.4. Many started basically sucking, because they didn't have the skill to modify their approaches. Post-1.3, many in Korea started kinda sucking against zerg just because of the way the patch went to begin with, but it was a downhill decline ever since for the Protoss players that weren't able to play without their bags of tricks. You are so stupid it hurts. Which other strategies should he have been using, out of interest? You are basically abusing him for using strats that worked, then calling him out on his post 1.3 performance when ALL match ups were showing sub 50% win rates for Protoss players, even Koreans. I don't see you telling Idra to stop using muta/ling because you deem it 'abusive' for some abiguous reason only you are aware off. The part about his mechanics and him being 'lazy' are the best - how do you even know this? Hes taken games off exceptional players with very solid play! Hes quitting sc2 to go to SCHOOL. SCHOOL. How is that a bad thing? Jesus these threads man.. Good luck to Cruncher. I thought he was pretty manner, especially at MLG trying to shake Idras hand. For the record I'm an Idra fan also, I just hate retards. gl Cruncher! You hanging off of Cruncher's nuts is a great indication of my intellectual capacity, thx. Look at other Protoss that don't have to turtle for the first 10-15 minutes of a game to get wins off of competent players. I'm biased against people that aren't entertaining to spectate. Listen to the State of the Game guys talk about Cruncher's play being boring and unimaginative, then come back and justify your point of view. Regardless of your feelings as to Cruncher's relative skill vs the rest of the field, you can't say the fucker's exciting to watch and not come across as a forced apologetic. Also he's only going back to SCHOOL, SCHOOL because he can't make it as a pro gamer. Since we're on the subject of Idra, you don't see him going to SCHOOL, SCHOOL because he doesn't fucking have to. He was contemplating pursuing an engineering degree or something when he went pro the first time. How the fuck do you know why he went back to school? You don't know him, I don't know him, its pure speculation. Maybe he went back to school because its a much safer career path and he wanted some security? And we weren't actually on the subject of Idra, you just seem to be randomly bringing him up to justify your own stupidity. I'm not even hanging off his nuts. Hes a mid tier protoss player, he beat some good players, hes boring but his style works. Macro Zerg games are often just as boring but they work, that is all thats important. I don't need to listen to Incontrol and Tyler to formulate my own opinion of a semi-succesful player. You are just bashing him for no reason, and looking like a retard in the process. Stop trolling threads because you think you're smart. Again, gl Cruncher. You accomplished a lot with some notable wins, and no doubt had some good experiences to take into later life. Gl with your studies.
Here in the United States, going back to college isn't necessarily a safer career path considering the current state of the economy. Cruncher already had a job capable of paying post-collegiate salary, assuming he was capable of being competitive.
Just returning to school by itself doesn't guarantee a position upon graduation, many of the more lucrative fields are fusterclucked with candidates specifically because of the state of the US economy and its affect on the job market. By leaving the pro gaming scene, Cruncher might've relegated himself to a blue-collar existence with a degree that means virtually nothing if he lacks the connections to land a job immediately upon graduating.
However, had he stayed a pro gamer, he was already on an excellent team and had he grown and developed as a player after the nerfs, he would've continued to turn heads. But I doubt he had what it takes to do that. His team had also acquired Naniwa, so the likelihood of Cruncher continuing to represent on any respectable level without changing races was low to nil.
And why the fuck do your arguments always have to go back to me being stupid? Express your opinions without personal attacks or eat a dick.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Idra's prediction, as obvious as it was, is spot on. I don't even know why we give cruncher the honor of calling what he did a style, because it definitely had no style. It was crude, weak and I'm glad he's gone just so there's a little bit more room to spotlight players who are actually trying hard (with their brains) to make it to the top.
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On October 05 2011 06:08 AutomatonOmega wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 05:59 Trowa127 wrote:On October 05 2011 05:32 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 05 2011 04:22 Trowa127 wrote:On October 05 2011 04:14 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 05 2011 03:16 AnalThermometer wrote:On October 05 2011 03:06 AutomatonOmega wrote:
The whole thing comes down to Cruncher having relied on playing abusively and turtling up on 3 bases in a sim city while waiting for 3/3/3 200/200 and steamrolling. If he'd explored the game and put in the work to be legitimately good like Hasu he'd still be in the scene and still thriving.
He never outgrew the 'bag of tricks' phase in his pro-gaming, and this is the end result. Out of interest, could one of the Idra's fans explain to me what ISN'T classified as abusive play or relying on a bag of tricks? It seems if Cruncher 4gates, 6 gates, builds a Void Ray etc. that's abusive play which won't last long. Yet at the same time if you play extremely safe and turtle while building up your army that's also labelled as abusive play and some kind of trick. I AM CONFUSE. Leaning heavily on turtling with force fields and colossi and/or blink IMO. Abusing overpowered synergies without exploring other options and developing a playstyle around them that has difficulty competing when not allowed to adhere to that one, narrow strategy. Many protoss use these tactics, but most (again, like Hasu, sorry if it seems like I'm on his sack or something) that are actually skilled at the game employ them in an otherwise well-rounded repertoire that includes many other builds and strategies and doesn't fall apart in their absence. The times he didn't do the above that I observed were times where he was pulling rabbits out of hats to 'change it up' with phoenix harass. His mechanics, game sense, and multitasking were never up to the caliber of the likes of Naniwa or Hasuobs, or even Incontrol. This is all something he had the power to change himself but didn't out of laziness. All you really have to do to see the abusive Protoss players is track their performance since 1.3 and 1.4. Many started basically sucking, because they didn't have the skill to modify their approaches. Post-1.3, many in Korea started kinda sucking against zerg just because of the way the patch went to begin with, but it was a downhill decline ever since for the Protoss players that weren't able to play without their bags of tricks. You are so stupid it hurts. Which other strategies should he have been using, out of interest? You are basically abusing him for using strats that worked, then calling him out on his post 1.3 performance when ALL match ups were showing sub 50% win rates for Protoss players, even Koreans. I don't see you telling Idra to stop using muta/ling because you deem it 'abusive' for some abiguous reason only you are aware off. The part about his mechanics and him being 'lazy' are the best - how do you even know this? Hes taken games off exceptional players with very solid play! Hes quitting sc2 to go to SCHOOL. SCHOOL. How is that a bad thing? Jesus these threads man.. Good luck to Cruncher. I thought he was pretty manner, especially at MLG trying to shake Idras hand. For the record I'm an Idra fan also, I just hate retards. gl Cruncher! You hanging off of Cruncher's nuts is a great indication of my intellectual capacity, thx. Look at other Protoss that don't have to turtle for the first 10-15 minutes of a game to get wins off of competent players. I'm biased against people that aren't entertaining to spectate. Listen to the State of the Game guys talk about Cruncher's play being boring and unimaginative, then come back and justify your point of view. Regardless of your feelings as to Cruncher's relative skill vs the rest of the field, you can't say the fucker's exciting to watch and not come across as a forced apologetic. Also he's only going back to SCHOOL, SCHOOL because he can't make it as a pro gamer. Since we're on the subject of Idra, you don't see him going to SCHOOL, SCHOOL because he doesn't fucking have to. He was contemplating pursuing an engineering degree or something when he went pro the first time. How the fuck do you know why he went back to school? You don't know him, I don't know him, its pure speculation. Maybe he went back to school because its a much safer career path and he wanted some security? And we weren't actually on the subject of Idra, you just seem to be randomly bringing him up to justify your own stupidity. I'm not even hanging off his nuts. Hes a mid tier protoss player, he beat some good players, hes boring but his style works. Macro Zerg games are often just as boring but they work, that is all thats important. I don't need to listen to Incontrol and Tyler to formulate my own opinion of a semi-succesful player. You are just bashing him for no reason, and looking like a retard in the process. Stop trolling threads because you think you're smart. Again, gl Cruncher. You accomplished a lot with some notable wins, and no doubt had some good experiences to take into later life. Gl with your studies. Here in the United States, going back to college isn't necessarily a safer career path considering the current state of the economy. Cruncher already had a job capable of paying post-collegiate salary, assuming he was capable of being competitive. Just returning to school by itself doesn't guarantee a position upon graduation, many of the more lucrative fields are fusterclucked with candidates specifically because of the state of the US economy and its affect on the job market. By leaving the pro gaming scene, Cruncher might've relegated himself to a blue-collar existence with a degree that means virtually nothing if he lacks the connections to land a job immediately upon graduating. However, had he stayed a pro gamer, he was already on an excellent team and had he grown and developed as a player after the nerfs, he would've continued to turn heads. But I doubt he had what it takes to do that. His team had also acquired Naniwa, so the likelihood of Cruncher continuing to represent on any respectable level without changing races was low to nil. And why the fuck do your arguments always have to go back to me being stupid? Express your opinions without personal attacks or eat a dick.
Again, 'might've,' 'isn't neccessarily,' you are just dealing in speculation, you have NO idea as to his personal circumstances so you can't even begin to try and insinuate him leaving pro-gaming to go back into education is because hes 'fallen off.'
And the reason I call you stupid is because you are obviously only here to troll, the guys going onto do something he wants, why can't people just be supportive?
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The fact that there are people here arguing that going to college is a financially stupid move compared to trying to make a living in progaming blows my mind.
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On October 05 2011 05:33 blackone wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 05:21 Eufouria wrote:
I wasn't the biggest Cruncher fan because I thought the style he used in the TSL was really boring, but to criticise him for using a style that worked makes my head hurt. Frankly I think every zerg is more boring to watch then July, but I don't criticise them for choosing to play the style that wins them games. You have to admit though that idras prediction of Cruncher became true. The "abusive" style people criticized Cruncher for gets bad -> Cruncher gets bad -> Cruncher quits. So yes, it's stupid to criticize him for using a style that won him games, but you can criticize him for not being able to win games once that style stopped working so well. (But frankly, I don't give a shit. But idra-fanboyism-hate is not better than idra-fanboyism.)
he had successful runs at MLG after the style he showcased in TSL stopped working, so i dont have an idea what you are talking about. ppl like you won't accept that he is still a good player, coz they want idra's prediction to come true just to ride idra's dick even harder.
idra's prediction never came true, cruncher is still that "average" guy who is not at the very top of the playerlist but he's doing well/alright when he participates in tournaments. apparently it was enough to beat idra in a BO3 and to get into pool play everytime he attended a MLG from the open bracket.
sorry to disappoint you!
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Shit man, how much money do people think progamers earn?Especially not stars.
I guess we need to bump that rekrul thread again.
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Trowa127: Your powers of deductive reasoning leave much to be desired. Hypothetical situation: Let's pretend you go pro. You do really well, and continue to do well. You have genuine skill.
Now you leave to go to college.
Riiiiiight. One doesn't make such a lifestyle-altering choice without there being extenuating circumstances helping the choice along.
If everything in Cruncher's pro career was going swimmingly, he would've done what every other actually skilled and talented pro is doing and save up their salary to go to school when the money dries up. But he's not doing that now, is he?
I think you have a crush on me. Looking through your post history, I see no evidence of you being anything but a really supportive person to pretty much everyone but myself. But we've only just met!
Why you've picked me to be the object of your crusade is confusing considering there's a lot of other people being way more trollish than I am even in this very thread. Is it because I'm American? I don't see you laying into the Spanish fellow there further up the thread who's basically saying the exact thing I am.
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United Kingdom1002 Posts
Happy for him, at some point everyone has to make a choice and I hope this is the right one for him.
You hanging off of Cruncher's nuts is a great indication of my intellectual capacity, thx.
Your need to resort to personal attacks is a great indication of your intellectual capacity.
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On October 05 2011 06:23 fortheGG wrote:Happy for him, at some point everyone has to make a choice and I hope this is the right one for him. Show nested quote +You hanging off of Cruncher's nuts is a great indication of my intellectual capacity, thx.
Your need to resort to personal attacks is a great indication of your intellectual capacity.
Did you even read the post that was quoting? I didn't start the personal attacks, ass.
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good luck to cruncher in his future endeavors. whether he liked it or not, he was stuck in the middle of an ongoing controversy because he beat idra, and received ill treatment that was disproportionate to his actions in my opinion.
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On October 05 2011 06:24 AutomatonOmega wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 06:23 fortheGG wrote:Happy for him, at some point everyone has to make a choice and I hope this is the right one for him. You hanging off of Cruncher's nuts is a great indication of my intellectual capacity, thx.
Your need to resort to personal attacks is a great indication of your intellectual capacity. Did you even read the post that was quoting? I didn't start the personal attacks, ass.
lol at the irony here
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Awww that kinda sux, Cruncher was pretty damn good too. Anyway awesome for him for going to college.
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EPT
