I know that I and a friend of mine didn't buy a pass this season (though we've both bought every season prior) because we weren't interested in watching a majority of TvTs.
The above, of course, is anecdotal but I'm curious: did anyone else, who usually buy, also not buy this season?
I ask because I'm concerned about the long term health of the GSL (the best starcraft league) if the current lack of racial diversity continues.
I don't see it changing much TBH until, perhaps, HOTS. Even if "balance" or the meta game changes, the current format doesn't allow for significant racial change except over the course of 3+ months.
Did anyone else not buy because of this? If not, does GOM need to do something drastic?
Poll: Did you refrain from buying Oct GSL due to lack of Racial Diversity?
I didn't buy this season - only so much TvT I can take! (701)
51%
Even without Racial Diversity, it's still the GSL! (681)
49%
1382 total votes
Your vote: Did you refrain from buying Oct GSL due to lack of Racial Diversity?
(Vote): I didn't buy this season - only so much TvT I can take! (Vote): Even without Racial Diversity, it's still the GSL!
It is only lacking in Code S which can change, it isn't going to stay TvT forever, look at Code A only 1 terran has made it to the Semi-Finals with 2 protoss and 1 zerg.
Plus I mainly just buy the ticket for Code A anyways, but the TvT in Code S does not bother me at all so it was worth it for me.
I don't watch to see a certain race, I watch to see amazing players play amazing games and that's what the GSL delivers consistently (minus the finals lol).
i was super cautious about buying a season ticket because of the mass TvT, but i bought one anyway because its only 10$ and the quality of code A is really high this season!
I usually don't buy seasons because I was able to see GSL when I was on holidays, but seeing that I can't watch it anymore and that the quality is bad when I can watch it, I thought about buying a ticket. But I didn't because MKP got eliminated in group stages, thus I won't see him play. And I think the amount of TvT sucks a bit, but if for example there was almost the same amount of terrans + MKP, Polt, TOP and HongUn I will buy it anyways because even if that many tvt is boring, I am terran myself and I want to watch the new tvt metagame evolve, and certain players that I like (NesTea, DRG, Leenock, Mvp, Bomber + MKP/Polt/HongUn/TOP if they went to ro16 is a good enough number of players I want to watch)
For a second, I thought you meant racial diversity meaning Koreans and other ethnic groups. To be honest, there are an abundant amount of Terrans, but how can GSL fix that?
I don't care about TvT or not, I wanna see the best of the best. If the best players in the world are Terrans, then be it. I've bought every single ticket so far, and I won't stop.
You really should add another option to distinguish people that aren't buying it anyways from people who aren't buying it specifically because of diversity.
On September 29 2011 01:43 Torte de Lini wrote: For a second, I thought you meant racial diversity meaning Koreans and other ethnic groups. To be honest, there are an abundant amount of Terrans, but how can GSL fix that?
IMO that's why they did the AOL invitational so they could invite a balanced number of players "racially".
I didn't buy one. The best way to encourage GOM to be more proactive in producing maps that ameliorate balance problems in the game is to vote with your wallet.
I've been tracking the GSL via the Tournaments forum, and from what I've read there, I would only care to see three or four of the matches that I can't see for free anyway (Sage!).
Until all three races are regularly well-represented up to the Ro4, I don't plan to buy another ticket. It's disheartening to watch the player who genuinely plays better lose because individual mistakes are more costly for one race than another.
I didn't buy it. I have actually lost a lot of interest since the BFH revolution at MLG a few months ago. It might be different now but my overall passion as a spectator has really diminished.
On September 29 2011 01:44 RivalryRedux wrote: You really should add another option to distinguish people that aren't buying it anyways from people who aren't buying it specifically because of diversity.
hm good idea (though it is kind of inferred) but I'm a forum noob - can you edit polls?
I didn't buy a pass this season because TvT has got to be the most boring mirror to spectate, unless you play Terran... i guess, but I don't, so I don't like watching hours of TvT. But, this isn't GSL/GOM's fault, they can't control what race the top players are using.
On September 29 2011 01:40 Radook wrote: Would buy any GSL when they start accepting credticard over just PayPal.
Lol you don't want to give GOM your credit card information. Wasn't too long ago that they got hacked and basically every account was compromised because they had the usernames and passwords saved in a txt file.
On September 29 2011 01:44 RivalryRedux wrote: You really should add another option to distinguish people that aren't buying it anyways from people who aren't buying it specifically because of diversity.
hm good idea (though it is kind of inferred) but I'm a forum noob - can you edit polls?
Hmmm I buy GSL to get entertainment value out of it. As much as I love protoss, I find TvT to be a decent matchup, and no matter the race, usually the games between the best of the best are fun anyways. Also, there's code A.
In conclusion, I bought it anyways, it's still enjoyable and gives me an insane fun/money ratio, unreachable by most if not any other paid broadcasted fun available.
I bought it, regardless if there's a lot of terran gsl is good as always, I find tvt very enjoyable unless the games are just bad in general which has nothing to do with race. Code A has been really good so far. All the gsl really needs is players that are better at zerg/protoss. I also think it would be pretty good to change the format, I think it's 75% stay in code S? Would be nicer if that number was 50% only those who make it to ro16 stay in, although a system like that doesn't work really well since there's code A as well.
I think the poll is worded very badly and reflecting your personal opinion too much. Neither of the two answers really reflects my position - I didn't get the pass just because it is GSL. TvTs are very interesting and entertaining to watch...and also there are foreigners in GSL which I want to watch as well.
I bought it because I thought I wanted to watch Code A. But since most of the foreigners/terrans got knocked out early and I don't care all that much for P/Z (I play terran), I haven't watched more than a handful of Code A games.
However, I have enjoyed Code S so far and I am genuinely psyched for all the ro16 matchups. It's GSL, and it's Tastosis. The Code S Korean terrans (and the remaining Code S zergs) are the best players in the world. TvT and TvZ are two of the best matchups to watch. People like to complain about TvT, but I can't for the life of me figure out why - terran is the most "complete" race and, hence, has the most entertaining mirror. Literally every unit and strategy can be viable - you will see battlecruisers, ravens, nukes, thor drops, etc. It's such a dynamic matchup, and because (unlike the other mirrors) most games are macro oriented, the better players tend to win and advance deep in the tournament, which is great.
EDIT: Also, $10 US for a season pass with commercials is a pittance for the quality of production/gameplay. Code S could be all terrans and I would still buy a pass. If it was all protosses or zergs that might be different, though...
I didn't buy it, the major lack of protoss players, or just the mass of terran players left a lot to be desired. I enjoy watching not just for fun but also to learn from other players (preferably the race I play myself) Also starting college doesn't give me as much time as I would like to watch anyway.
Uh, Hi. Code A has been more exciting than many major tournaments and is only half over. As well it meets the racial distribution you would desire. Suck it up you'll never find a tournament with better players. If you don't like the TvT, just don't watch. I wouldn't have missed SangHo or CoCa ^^
Code A was worth the price of the ticket this season. If they were seperate buys, I would not have bought a code S. because there is waaaaaaaaay too much TvT. But Code A has rocked, and there are thankfully a handful of non-terran players in Code S still for a few extra games.
On September 29 2011 01:49 ahx wrote: I didn't buy a pass this season because TvT has got to be the most boring mirror to spectate, unless you play Terran... i guess, but I don't, so I don't like watching hours of TvT. But, this isn't GSL/GOM's fault, they can't control what race the top players are using.
As a Protoss, I disagree. I think TvT is pretty interesting. Just not 10 in a row.
I bought a ticket for Code A, actually. Most of the players I like watching are in Code A this season, plus there are tons of amazing up and coming players. The only Code S players I watch for are MKP and July.
Personally I find TvT very boring to watch, so I won't be purchasing. However I usually pay for a pass to access the HQ/full vods if people recommend a very good series.
I'm Terran and got the game 3 weeks ago or so and so I'm still horrible in TvT and could hopefully learn from all the TvTs so so many Terrans are ok for me and I bought a pass.
I bought most of the prior tickets, but I really dislike terran (I like every matchup except tvt and tvp). So 20 terrans is way too much for me to buy a season ticket. I would buy it if Tastosis commentated code A or if Moletrap would leave GSL. Same problem as with Kelly, his voice is pitched too high which makes it annoying, but I will stop bashing casters now.
I literally won't watch any of the TvT games but I still bought it because a lot of my favorite Zerg players are in it. DRG, NesTea and July are enough to keep me tuning in at least until they're knocked out. I didn't even watch last season's finals though because I'm so sick of watching TvT in the GSL.
I find it hard to believe that over 50% of people who bought a ticket for the previous seasons didn't do it this time because of too many terrans. Pretty sure there is a big number of people who never buy a ticket in there.
I bought every individual league since the beginning including AoL. I also bought the ticket for October, but if after the U&D-matches we still have lots of Terrans and we will not have a Protoss champion or finalist this season in Code S, I think I will not buy a ticket again. Then I will wait until the format changes or we have a better race distribution in the first round. I am sick of too much TvTs. I play protoss and I think it is normal that you prefer to watch your own race, but that was not often the case the last months.
Code S lacks race diversity, but all days have been good (except yesterday that was I think the worst GSL day of games ever ?). But code A is too awesome this season to be missed.
I almost didn't buy it because of this but I did buy it. This was the first season I bought ever. Also I'm sure someone pointed out that you get code A and and the up and downs so you will get to watch other match ups and a very very high level. I'm hoping to learn some new Zerg skillz :D
LoL, I guess I kinda agree with the whole racial uniformity thing. But at the same time.. It is nice to see the TvT match up, and how exactly to get to the late game. And then how the late game is handled by professionals.
I didnt buy this season because I've been watching too much starcraft this summer and uni is coming back around in a weeks time, plus I was on a holiday away for the first week of the season. Plus the fact that im not at a level where I can really distinguish between a close exciting game between 2 very good players and a close exciting game between 2 very good but korean refined players, I just dont pay attention to THAT level. Because of that GSL is a financially foolish option because I can get better quality streams with equivalently skilled casters of a wider variety from countless other events at a better time of day for myself, not to mention free vods. I now follow a wider amount of competitions with my time and see a higher amount of my personal favourite players and that just gives me more satisfaction that watching GSL. Racial diversity wasnt a huge factor in the decision but I guess maybe it added to a growing sense of tedium with the gsl season that overall takes quite a long time to get through. Crucify me i guess.
I've bought 3 tickets in the past and I've skipped the last few due to NASL Season 1 and the fact that I can't stand there being so many Terrans in Code S, and the Terrans dominating Code A (12 Protoss in Ro32, 4 in Ro16, 8 Terrans in Ro32, 5 in Ro16. Oz and Sage only had to go through 1 Terran to reach the Ro4.) I think Polt put it best when he said a lot Terrans were in Code S simply because they played Terran. GOM can't do anything about it though Blizzard really needs to work on the balance of this game, I feel bad for SC2 as an esport if this continues, and in my opinion, all signs point to it continuning.
I did buy an MLG Gold Membership, which I think is literally worth its weight in Gold for a one year pass to the HD Stream and VODs. I think I will skip NASL Season 2, since the HD stream lagged so bad in Season 1, and didn't perform well for me for the first week in Season 2 if I remember correctly.
I did not, but mostly it is because of school. Watching 5 hours of Code A in one day is not possible for me. The lack of protoss/zerg is only the icing on the cake.
I did pay for Arena of Legends though.
EDIT: TvT is also my favorite mirror match up, I don't know why noobs are always complaining about a mirror match just because it can actually last longer than 10 minutes.
I bought the Oct GSL and even though some of groups ended up being lackluster, looking at the quality of the Ro16 and potential Ro8 matches, I believe it will be totally worth it.
MVP- Bomber, Clide-Ryung, DRG-Supernova, Ganzi-Leenock are all great matchups. Happy-Losira will also be probably entertaining. Coca-Killer, MMA-asd, Nestea-Virus are probably going to be one-sided ones.
The potential Ro8 lineup this season seems great as well MVP-Nestea or Bomber-Nestea Losira-Coca DRG-Leenock or DRG-Ganzi Ryung-MMA (Clide will go in Ro16 as always)
I wouldn't buy a pass anyway but i would love to support the eSports i watch, unfortunately not an option. Anyway getting onto my point, it annoys me a lot that it's mainly a Korean product, with things like k-pop groups that must cost a lot of money. And there's big sponsors like Pepsi and LG right too so money shouldn't be an issue (Blizzard in too i assume?) I don't feel like the foreigner money is going in the interests of eSports. Like where's the Korean revenue stream to pay for stuff like k-pop groups which is entirely their interest?
Plus GOM player gets massive exposure too, and it even uses your bandwidth to peer2peer to other watchers so their bandwidth cost is less. So the product to the national fans is only including mainly Tasteless/Artosis wages as any extra i guess. I feel like it's just kinda lame when we are used to free streams and that business model worked fine, not to mention this is heavily involved by Blizzard and basically one constant publicity drive for their product in the first place. If the money just paid for the casters that would be cool but who knows really, just pisses me off to see money going for useless crap instead of the people that need it, the players!!
I really want a way to get money to teams basically, maybe buy stuff like shirts or whatever. I feel thats supporting in the correct way. I understand paying for HD VODs i guess but less than that? Everyone involved (Blizz, Sponsors and Gretech) is benefiting enough easily to be a bit more generous and possibly help long term growth at the same time.
Sorry bit ranting there. But i just feel like it's not actually helping who i think needs help in this scene?
I bought one, but not watching any TvT's this season or last season except for Ro4. If its even worse next season I might just not buy one. And this is coming from someone who bought every ticket so far (I had AoL for free)
I wouldn't buy a pass anyway but i would love to support the eSports i watch, unfortunately not an option. Anyway getting onto my point, it annoys me a lot that it's mainly a Korean product, with things like k-pop groups that must cost a lot of money. And there's big sponsors like Pepsi and LG right too so money shouldn't be an issue (Blizzard in too i assume?) I don't feel like the foreigner money is going in the interests of eSports. Like where's the Korean revenue stream to pay for stuff like k-pop groups which is entirely their interest?
Plus GOM player gets massive exposure too, and it even uses your bandwidth to peer2peer to other watchers so their bandwidth cost is less. So the product to the national fans is only including mainly Tasteless/Artosis wages as any extra i guess. I feel like it's just kinda lame when we are used to free streams and that business model worked fine, not to mention this is heavily involved by Blizzard and basically one constant publicity drive for their product in the first place. If the money just paid for the casters that would be cool but who knows really, just pisses me off to see money going for useless crap instead of the people that need it, the players!!
I really want a way to get money to teams basically, maybe buy stuff like shirts or whatever. I feel thats supporting in the correct way. I understand paying for HD VODs i guess but less than that? Everyone involved (Blizz, Sponsors and Gretech) is benefiting enough easily to be a bit more generous and possibly help long term growth at the same time.
Sorry bit ranting there. But i just feel like it's not actually helping who i think needs help in this scene?
Gom player P2P ? not true afaik, my up/dl meter is always running and I never see its uploading
So you didn't buy because you want to hurt GOM's pocket for having too many TvT when GOM can't really do anything about it. Is it GOM's fault that the top players chose Terran as their race? They've already modified maps to not have close positions, put depots at the bottom of ramps, removed/added new maps. What else do you want them to do, just randomly boot the terran players from code S and add more Z and P?
I can understand if you're just too cheap to pay or just don't want to watch too many TvT but don't try to blame GOM for it. That's what I see you trying to do.
On September 29 2011 02:16 infinity2k9 wrote: I wouldn't buy a pass anyway but i would love to support the eSports i watch, unfortunately not an option. Anyway getting onto my point, it annoys me a lot that it's mainly a Korean product, with things like k-pop groups that must cost a lot of money. And there's big sponsors like Pepsi and LG right too so money shouldn't be an issue (Blizzard in too i assume?) I don't feel like the foreigner money is going in the interests of eSports. Like where's the Korean revenue stream to pay for stuff like k-pop groups which is entirely their interest?
Plus GOM player gets massive exposure too, and it even uses your bandwidth to peer2peer to other watchers so their bandwidth cost is less. So the product to the national fans is only including mainly Tasteless/Artosis wages as any extra i guess. I feel like it's just kinda lame when we are used to free streams and that business model worked fine, not to mention this is heavily involved by Blizzard and basically one constant publicity drive for their product in the first place. If the money just paid for the casters that would be cool but who knows really, just pisses me off to see money going for useless crap instead of the people that need it, the players!!
I really want a way to get money to teams basically, maybe buy stuff like shirts or whatever. I feel thats supporting in the correct way. I understand paying for HD VODs i guess but less than that? Everyone involved (Blizz, Sponsors and Gretech) is benefiting enough easily to be a bit more generous and possibly help long term growth at the same time.
Sorry bit ranting there. But i just feel like it's not actually helping who i think needs help in this scene?
They're basically giving a salary to the players, even those who lose the first round. They're giving nearly 2M$ (yeah, 2 millions dollars) a year to players....I don't understand why you say what you say.
I didn't buy because I still haven't watched any of the games I bought from last season and 80% of the games from the season before that.
There's just too many tournaments and not enough buildup for each one. If instead of every month, what if they had a GSL every 3-4 months? It would allow us time to build up story and hype. Up the prizes, drag it out, make all series a best of 5 or more, play a round 32 man round robin season or something. Some of us don't have the time to follow all of it anymore.
I bought it mostly for Code A and SangHo! I either watch the GSL to learn Protoss builds and strats or just to listen to Tastosis being Tastosis. But I have been skipping TvT's this season.
On September 29 2011 02:21 bucckevin wrote: So you didn't buy because you want to hurt GOM's pocket for having too many TvT when GOM can't really do anything about it. Is it GOM's fault that the top players chose Terran as their race? They've already modified maps to not have close positions, put depots at the bottom of ramps, removed/added new maps. What else do you want them to do, just randomly boot the terran players from code S and add more Z and P?
I can understand if you're just too cheap to pay or just don't want to watch too many TvT but don't try to blame GOM for it. That's what I see you trying to do.
Uhhhh this assumes he MUST buy GOM in the first place? How the hell do you manage to come up with this attitude. They sell a product, if you don't think it's entertaining then don't buy it. TvT isn't their fault but it is less entertaining when it's prevalent, so sorry but that means people won't buy the product.
Anyone else think GOM should take additional steps to alleviate this problem? Just for example setting up brackets with terran knocking other terran out or against zerg who are specifically good against terran, there is also maps they could change, to make them more unfavorable to terran.
As long as NesTea, MVP and LosirA continue to play StarCraft 2 at their level, I'll keep buying a ticket. I mean NesTea has already provided that season defining game in his match against NaDa.
On September 29 2011 02:24 Horse...falcon wrote: I didn't buy because I still haven't watched any of the games I bought from last season and 80% of the games from the season before that.
There's just too many tournaments and not enough buildup for each one. If instead of every month, what if they had a GSL every 3-4 months? It would allow us time to build up story and hype. Up the prizes, drag it out, make all series a best of 5 or more, play a round 32 man round robin season or something. Some of us don't have the time to follow all of it anymore.
I kind of see your point too. It would solve the issue of players dodging other events too. But it would even further slow the turn around of players in code s/a/b which is a little rough on those good players who are still fighting their way up
On September 29 2011 02:28 unoriginalname wrote: As long as NesTea, MVP and LosirA continue to play StarCraft 2 at their level, I'll keep buying a ticket. I mean NesTea has already provided that season defining game in his match against NaDa.
Yeah, If I was a Zerg player I would feel the same way but as Protoss there just isn't enough incentive. If Sage makes S I will get it next season though. I know the A matches are good but without Tastosis it isn't worth the $ for me.
I bought a ticket, but I understand why others didn't. However, I'm posting to ask a question about the OP. What exactly are the "drastic measures" you would prescribe? GSL can't just kick out half of their Code S players because they play Terran.
On September 29 2011 02:24 Horse...falcon wrote: I didn't buy because I still haven't watched any of the games I bought from last season and 80% of the games from the season before that.
There's just too many tournaments and not enough buildup for each one. If instead of every month, what if they had a GSL every 3-4 months? It would allow us time to build up story and hype. Up the prizes, drag it out, make all series a best of 5 or more, play a round 32 man round robin season or something. Some of us don't have the time to follow all of it anymore.
I kind of see your point too. It would solve the issue of players dodging other events too. But it would even further slow the turn around of players in code s/a/b which is a little rough on those good players who are still fighting their way up
I think it would be worse honestly, GSL is the ONLY tournament in korea, and to drag it out even further means most koreans have little opportunity to play elsewhere in korea and we would have less korean matches to watch. I still don't know why people think its a good idea to copy over every structure from Brood War in Starcraft 2.
On September 29 2011 02:16 infinity2k9 wrote: I wouldn't buy a pass anyway but i would love to support the eSports i watch, unfortunately not an option. Anyway getting onto my point, it annoys me a lot that it's mainly a Korean product, with things like k-pop groups that must cost a lot of money. And there's big sponsors like Pepsi and LG right too so money shouldn't be an issue (Blizzard in too i assume?) I don't feel like the foreigner money is going in the interests of eSports. Like where's the Korean revenue stream to pay for stuff like k-pop groups which is entirely their interest?
Plus GOM player gets massive exposure too, and it even uses your bandwidth to peer2peer to other watchers so their bandwidth cost is less. So the product to the national fans is only including mainly Tasteless/Artosis wages as any extra i guess. I feel like it's just kinda lame when we are used to free streams and that business model worked fine, not to mention this is heavily involved by Blizzard and basically one constant publicity drive for their product in the first place. If the money just paid for the casters that would be cool but who knows really, just pisses me off to see money going for useless crap instead of the people that need it, the players!!
I really want a way to get money to teams basically, maybe buy stuff like shirts or whatever. I feel thats supporting in the correct way. I understand paying for HD VODs i guess but less than that? Everyone involved (Blizz, Sponsors and Gretech) is benefiting enough easily to be a bit more generous and possibly help long term growth at the same time.
Sorry bit ranting there. But i just feel like it's not actually helping who i think needs help in this scene?
They're basically giving a salary to the players, even those who lose the first round. They're giving nearly 2M$ (yeah, 2 millions dollars) a year to players....I don't understand why you say what you say.
Well i would assume that money is already put up by sponsors/Blizzard/Gretech themselves. I really don't like the idea of prize money being salary anyway, thats just not a salary. One bad month and you can't afford to live? It's just not transparent and i'd personally feel more comfortable supporting teams directly.
On September 29 2011 02:21 bucckevin wrote: So you didn't buy because you want to hurt GOM's pocket for having too many TvT when GOM can't really do anything about it. Is it GOM's fault that the top players chose Terran as their race? They've already modified maps to not have close positions, put depots at the bottom of ramps, removed/added new maps. What else do you want them to do, just randomly boot the terran players from code S and add more Z and P?
I can understand if you're just too cheap to pay or just don't want to watch too many TvT but don't try to blame GOM for it. That's what I see you trying to do.
Uhhhh this assumes he MUST buy GOM in the first place? How the hell do you manage to come up with this attitude. They sell a product, if you don't think it's entertaining then don't buy it. TvT isn't their fault but it is less entertaining when it's prevalent, so sorry but that means people won't buy the product.
I think you're a little confused. I never said people MUST buy GOM. I said you don't have to buy if you don't have the money or you don't enjoy it because there are too many terrans. I said you shouldn't be demanding for GOM to do something about the terrans or else you won't buy GOM tickets. GOM has done enough things within their control to make it balanced.
On September 29 2011 02:26 Sandro wrote: Anyone else think GOM should take additional steps to alleviate this problem? Just for example setting up brackets with terran knocking other terran out or against zerg who are specifically good against terran, there is also maps they could change, to make them more unfavorable to terran.
No that's an awful idea, how did you come up with this? Fixing groups/matchups/maps to favor non-terran players just to flush them out. It just needs time and less terrans will be in code S. Also as I said previously it's just that there's so many good terran players and so few very good protoss/zerg.
On September 29 2011 02:26 Sandro wrote: Anyone else think GOM should take additional steps to alleviate this problem? Just for example setting up brackets with terran knocking other terran out or against zerg who are specifically good against terran, there is also maps they could change, to make them more unfavorable to terran.
Yeah, let's rig the brackets, that seems fair.
The GSL map pool is already probably more balanced than most if not all, since they use their own maps. There's a reason why MLG, NASL, etc., and even Blizzard (Tal Darim) have adopted the GSL maps.
Code A has a lot of great players, so the $10 is well worth it for that alone.
Plus, even as a Protoss player, I still enjoy TvZ
What I don't like about code S, though, is the inflexibility in new players getting there. The code A tosses are much better than Hong Un or Genius and it seems like there are always some mediocre players who hold on to there code S spot.
Well saying things like 'you want to hurt GOM's pockets' and then absolving blame from GOM that it's all TvT. feels like you are implying he should buy a ticket anyway. You can't say he's trying to blame GOM i didn't see anything like that, he says 'best league ever' so i don't think it's a negative thing about them.
On September 29 2011 02:33 labbe wrote: This poll would really have needed a "I wouldn't buy a ticket either way" option
pretty much this, i have never and likely will never buy a gom ticket, but that's not because of tvt. that said, the amount of tvt certainly wouldn't encourage me to do so if i was interested in spending my money on gom ahead of other tournaments
I want to see the best players so I watch GSL. Yes there are many TvTs, no it's not boring. But I must say that escpecially this season I almost always am rooting for the non terrans just for the sake of having not only tvts
I thought people pay for GSL to watch high level play. If you don`t want to pay because lack of racial diversity, then I ask why would you ever want to watch GSL in the first place when you can get your "racial uniformity" free elsewhere.
On September 29 2011 02:37 infinity2k9 wrote: Well saying things like 'you want to hurt GOM's pockets' and then absolving blame from GOM that it's all TvT. feels like you are implying he should buy a ticket anyway. You can't say he's trying to blame GOM i didn't see anything like that, he says 'best league ever' so i don't think it's a negative thing about them.
Well from the way he worded the thread, it seems as if he doesn't like the racial balance in GSL, thinks GOM should take drastic actions, or they won't get his money.
Regardless of balance or not, there are still a select-few world-class players who are flourishing as Z, and not as much so, but also P. It's just that the current metagame is supporting Terran, and the reasons may be vast, but one has to be patient and allow a period of dominance to occur, until a reversal can be implemented.
I don't think 1.4 has been live long enough, nor has WoL in general been live long enough, for us to be able to state that there are imbalances. We are being a tad too impatient in my honest opinion; it's times like these when the greatest theorycrafting occurs - when certain races backs are against the walls.
Relating to the OP, I think that TvT is perfectly acceptable, and is the best description of a chess match. I simply did not buy a ticket because I don't have enough time to watch the GSL at 5AM, and I also don't have the energy to watch VoD's, because I am typically busy doing other things. I don't mind hearing about the results / winners though.
Bought GSL October and AOL, kinda regretting it now. I thought the mixed race pools in AOL were going to make for a more diverse tournament... kinda did I guess.
When you have 2 races that have inherent problems and one that hasn't changed much since bw you'll end up with a lot of TvT at the top level. Look how many band aid changes protoss and zerg have had over the past year with terran getting a few timing adjustments. You guys blaming Gomtv for how Code S has panned out is laughable.
On September 29 2011 01:40 Charger wrote: (minus the finals lol).
the finals were cursed by kespa doing their evil voodoo magic. I don't see a reason not to buy a ticket, just because code s has alot of tvt. The games are still fun to watch. I still have to laugh everytime marines and siege tanks engage. And when its over you see two red parallel lines. Despite this we don't micro agreement, tvt in code s varies alot, so its really worth it. But tvt is the best matchup anyways. Since there could be 396 supply of siege tanks out.
I'm not buying it until they get rid of all the protosses and zergs. Seriously I even get those guys on the ladder all the time, are they just fucking with me or what?
First time not buying a ticket for me because of the TvT.
The reason it does matter is because blizzard puts a lot of money into GSL. GSL can put pressure onto blizzard saying, "hey nobody wants to watch this TvT shit anymore do us a favor and fix the other races." That doesn't mean blizz will listen but pressure from people like GOM and MLG is probably worth more than people whining on a forum.
I'm probably gonna end up buying it by the end, i'm just lazy and already payed 5 for AoL. I'm not too loose with my money, even when it comes to not hurting eSports.
Well infact when you think about it, while GOM obviously isn't responsible, maybe they can help?
Gretech is in the position of being maybe the only ones who can actually bring up balance issues to them if it's identified exactly whats wrong. Maybe they will do infact. Getting statements from every player and what they think and making some kind of appeal to Blizzard. I mean i don't think it's likely but i think they are in a unique position of possibly being able to help bring change.
After all i'm sure Blizzard wants their game to be doing as successfully as possible as an eSport. They are in business together and i don't know how Gretech profits from things (maybe mainly with the media player), but better race distribution would be a good start in making and keeping it entertaining which would benefit everyone.
On September 29 2011 02:39 r_con wrote: GSL is GSL. I watch games that are good, the best players bring the best games, regardless of matchup. Also, CODE A non mirrors have been beast.
On September 29 2011 02:59 coL.CatZ wrote: No latinos playing, so I didn't buy it
I know, rite?
As to what GOM can do (in the realm of fairness)... Not sure.
Maybe allow 2 people to fall out of Code S per group instead of 1 (like before)?
But with Terran's strength in current Metagame that might not help (though this Code A season says differently).
Also, that would eliminate the "stability" of the players involved in the tournament; not allowing individual players to have stories that grow over time.
Last season was the first season I bought the GSL, and I was fairly angry because I just watched every Zerg player get ripped apart by hellions, every Protoss get 1-1-1'd, and every TvT was at a standstill because of hellions. I MIGHT buy next season, but I'm not sure yet. It just wasn't fun from a spectator's point of view.
Sounds like GomTV need to start inputting maps that favour zerg and protoss. It's the way they balanced the game in BW and it may be what they need to do now.
I usually get code S, I like everything except pvp, so I'm fine with less P players. Didn't get it now cos of busy uni sched. Don't get code A cos of casters.
GOM can just make P favored maps. The problem of protoss is a little their fault, because they introduced some good ZvT maps, but those maps revealed to be terrible maps for protoss in all matchups (dual sight, bel'shir beach I'm talking about YOU. Even crossfire that was introduced as a protoss favored map happened to be, in practice, a zerg favored map). This season they started to fix that, by making Terminus a good protoss map, by closing the natural of bel'shir, and by introducing daybreak. But dual sight is still here and every protoss has played it this season ><
Seriously i believe its more fun to watch if there is a clearly misrepresented race
gsl open 1 and 2 were really interesting because terrans dominated and zergs were considered weak, gsl open 3 was interesting because finally a protoss tear shit apart
maybe sage, oz and killer will dissapoint but im still confident that we will get some entertainment value out of em
I dont think gom can do much....except change the map pool...but the maps arent really an issue in terms of balance imo (every race have a slightly favored map)....they did give away an entire tournament for free if you bought all the previous seasons (Arena of Legends)....If you hate TvTs watch that instead....I guess.....
3) When did you stop buying GSL? (This would be my option, for me it was when IPL and NASL started and filled my needs for top tier games) 4) I've never purchased GSL
On September 29 2011 01:38 Yaki wrote: For me it's my first season of premium GSL and I'm enjoying it so far, not only Code S but also Code A
yeah same. just bought a ticket recently, and it seems like the best decision i can make. Protoss needs pointers now more than ever, and there's so few games where protoss players do well that they're really easy to find. guess you get less content, but it seems like the only place to get the top notch stuff... and at a time when i need it.
I don't blame anyone though. Hope GSL figures this out, since they're pretty much supporting pro gamers it's understandable they want to protect the Code S'ers. I wonder if they just made the tournament bigger... or a losers bracket... atleast then we could see some pvzs xD
TvT is the most skill based and entertaining match up
But I suppose just zvz and pvp where the guy with 2-4 more roaches/stalkers can a-move win(as long as his timing/control isn't borderline retarded) is what most people want.
as a protoss player i've basically came to understand in korean tournaments that protoss isn't always going to have a high representation... however i sitll find zvt pretty interesting to watch out of non-p matchups... but not enough to buy a pass
need more protoss to do well, don't think its an imbalance issue
On September 29 2011 01:40 Radook wrote: Would buy any GSL when they start accepting credticard over just PayPal.
Amen! cant use paypal myself but i would buy all passes anyhow despite TvT dominance.
I pay with a credit card, I don't even have a paypal account. I think paypal handles the payment but you don't have to "use" paypal. It's like paypal is the bank or the payment processor.
This poll is pretty flawed, needs a third option - "Did not buy for other reasons". I bet the majority of voters who didn't buy, didn't base their decisions upon racial diversity.
First time I haven't bought a pass since I started watching over half a year ago. I can't say 100% of it was just tvt. Probably 75% of that was tvt, but the other 25% was just I started college again and during the first month or two I'm just too busy to justify paying for it.
On September 29 2011 03:26 Fluttershy wrote: TvT is the most skill based and entertaining match up
But I suppose just zvz and pvp where the guy with 2-4 more roaches/stalkers can a-move win(as long as his timing/control isn't borderline retarded) is what most people want.
TvT most skilled based match up? Please explan! Do you think a TvZ, TvP, ZvZ, PvP is not skill based like a TvT at the level of the players in Code S? In Code S competing the best players of the world.
For all the complaints about Terrans, Code A is still better than any other league, outside Code S. Code A alone is worth it. This season has had some of the most innovative protoss games. Sage, JYP, and Oz all playing solid protoss in Code A. Curious is stomping people, potential top 5 zerg in the world. We saw some success by team Dignitas. Select v Alicia was amazing play by both players.
Code S has MVP v Bomber in ro16, then winner might play Nestea in bo5. No more BFH in TvT. We already saw Nestea v MMA. We're seeing this new mech build against zerg that Nada did. Just last night, we saw Killer's PvT against Polt. A new composition to handle that terran 2-base push plus harass on BB. It has some risks, but given Polt's style, it counters it hard.
When you pay for GSL, you're getting the best AND the second best leagues in the world. Try watching these other leagues. The difference in the quality of play is so clear, even to my gold and plat friends.
I paid last season, but I hardly watched it so I saw no point in renewing. For me it's mostly because I feel no particular connection to most of koreans. I just enjoy the foreign scene a lot more, even if the players are worse.
I pretty much got it BECAUSE of it ;P Im a terran myself so from the learning point of view Im mostly only intrested in TvX and Im happy almost every match is one.
I am not a fan of too much TvT. However, Coda A had a good amount of foreigners worth watching and a much better race distribution. I believe I got my money's worth from Code A alone.
I enjoy TvT and have bought the last 3 or 4 seasons plus the Team League. I did not buy this season of the GSL. I was mostly interested in the first two rounds of Code A which came on at a time I could watch live. I also am interested in the semis and finals of Code S and I usually wake up early to watch those lives. I might not have to with Blizzcon.
The rest of the games seemed like too much TvT and TvX. I didn't want to watch them so I didn't buy the season.
I purchase mainly because I find the casting archon to be so entertaining even during matches Im otherwise not interested in. I rarely watch all the matches up until the final 4 however that is more due to time constraints. Racial matchups dont really effect my decision one way or another.
I didn't buy it because Nestea and MVP are too good, and IM wins every title almost. Not enough distribution. Even if they don't, then Losira or Happy might win. I wish GOM would do something about IM winning too much GSLs. I won't buy a ticket until they do.
On September 29 2011 01:43 Torte de Lini wrote: For a second, I thought you meant racial diversity meaning Koreans and other ethnic groups. To be honest, there are an abundant amount of Terrans, but how can GSL fix that?
GOM can't fix this. But it serves as a warning for Blizzard about racial inbalance.
Whenever the major tournament from the Mecca of Starcraft 2 has a racial ratio of 4:1:1, the game loses credibility as a competitive balanced game. Even though the game is still very young and there's tons of stuff to figure out, the last few seasons in GSL have shown a steady increase of Terrans. This might force Blizzard to make some changes even if they consider the game to be technically balanced... And I don't mean "increasing the Barracks build time by 5s" type of changes.
One can argue that Terrans are only dominating in Korea and this "problem" doesn't happen in the foreign scene. But the true of the matter is, Korea represents the vanguard of Starcraft 2 metagame and skill "cap". Foreigns are trying to catch up with Korea, which might lead eventually to the same scenario.
I've had the chance to visit Korea for 3 weeks and whenever I talked to some people about SC2, most of the people have the impression it's a pretty imbalanced game. Sure they are comparing it to BW which is 12 years older than SC2, but still the problem stands.
Blizzard can't hold themselves on the fact that NesTea has won 3 GSLs already. Bonjwas happen.
I find it sad that because of one season of terran dominance, people are actually boycotting the GSL. While i do agree that excessive amounts of TvT can really wear on you, the quality of the games this season have really been above any prior season. I feel as though the people who are not buying a season pass are also the same people who are all for supporting eSports, when its convenient.
At least its TvT, could you imagine if every night of GSL was PvP?
I know it sucks watching TvT all day, but at the same time, we are seeing some of the most top-level SC2 to date with these TvTs and it is actually quite interesting.
On September 29 2011 01:40 Radook wrote: Would buy any GSL when they start accepting credticard over just PayPal.
They already do this, i know that it goes to paypal but you can pay with a credit card through paypal without having an account or signing in. When yoou go to pay for it you just select "id like to continue without signing in" or something like that. Its the same as paying with a credit card on any site, you dont need a paypal account or anything.
For me, spectating SC2 is like a marriage: I love SC2 and will always support the growth of esports, during the good and bad times, for better or for worse. Til Flash do us part.
On September 29 2011 01:43 Torte de Lini wrote: For a second, I thought you meant racial diversity meaning Koreans and other ethnic groups. To be honest, there are an abundant amount of Terrans, but how can GSL fix that?
GOM can't fix this. It serves as a warning for Blizzard about racial inbalance.
Whenever the major tournament from the Mecca of Starcraft 2 has a racial ratio of 4:1:1, the game loses credibility as a competitive balanced game. Even though the game is still very young and there's tons of stuff to figure out, the last few seasons in GSL have shown a steady increase of Terrans. This might force Blizzard to make some changes even if they consider the game to be technically balanced... And I don't mean "increasing the Barracks build time by 5s" type of changes.
One can argue that Terrans are only dominating in Korea and this "problem" doesn't happen in the foreign scene. But the true of the matter is, Korea represents the vanguard of Starcraft 2 metagame and skill "cap". Foreigns are trying to catch up with Korea, which might lead eventually to the same scenario.
I've had the chance to visit Korea for 3 weeks and whenever I talked to some people about SC2, most of the people have the impression it's a pretty imbalanced game. Sure they are comparing it to BW which is 12 years older than SC2, but still the problem stands.
Blizzard can't hold themselves on the fact that NesTea has won 3 GSLs already. Bonjwas happen.
This is the single most intelligent post I've heard about this subject ever. The balance evangelists will be hunting you down bro.
Personally I don't pay for anything either way (bombard me with ads for money, I really don't care) because I'm a poor college student. But I also haven't even watched most of GSL so far. Code S has been struggling to capture my interest after the first couple rounds because I tend not to like the players who make it to the finals, but I do try to catch Code A, but again, the problem is that the players I like seem to lose this time too. None of this is GOM's fault, it's just what it is.
TvT is pretty boring mostly because there's so little unit diversity in most matches and so much of it is based upon positioning. I think TvT would be a lot more interesting, and terran strategy in general would be if siege mode wasn't in the game, but I understand that's one of the main parts of terran play. "HAH I caught you unseiged you lose!" is just not compelling gameplay to me.
On September 29 2011 05:18 Skarmory wrote: Blizzard: Hmmm, Terran seems to be winning a lot. Protoss seem to be losing a lot. Solution, nerf infestors. ><
That's a very well though out post right there. Enjoy.
On September 29 2011 01:49 ahx wrote: I didn't buy a pass this season because TvT has got to be the most boring mirror to spectate, unless you play Terran... i guess, but I don't, so I don't like watching hours of TvT. But, this isn't GSL/GOM's fault, they can't control what race the top players are using.
I really can't understand how you think TvT is the worst mirror, seriously. I have bought a season pass everytime and for me it's not just about the racial dispersion, but I like seeing where the game changes and strategies are evolving, plus DRG is in this season.
Code A has been amazing so far though, best season yet.
I did buy it. But i regret of doing so. Even buying tickets, i used to get up early and watch gsl live. Now, i dont do that anymore and i simply cant stand any more tvt. If its frustrating for viewers and protoss fans, imagine for protoss and zerg players.
I think this poll should have had an option for "Don't buy GSL anyway..."
Regardless, I bought it, I do play Terran after all but I will still always want to see as much GSL as possible, and even if it was all Z/P, I'd want to watch, looking at the round of 16, there's ALOT of good matches.
I don't have time to watch all the matches anyway, but I like to support GOM and buy the season pass to watch the recommended matches and the matches of the players I support.
I didn't because I found buying ticket just for code A strange. Bought AoL ticket instead and was left with nothing but disappointment. Same results and no tastosis casting which I was pretty sure there would be.
lol i thought this thread was about not enough black people in the GSL.
honestly though, its sooo annoying. my team buys a GSL ticket each season, so although i did technically buy it, i dont think ive watched a TvT other than Sjow and Select's games. i saw group A of Code S, and raged hard, then saw group B and raged harder.
I personally LOVE TvT, and I can't get enough of it, both watching-wise and playing wise. However, I have no disposable income at the moment, so I unfortunately have to settle for the free stream and free vods.
I'm sure there will be good games coming out of this GSL that will be worth the ticket price, even if they are TvTs. Plus, Nestea and DRG are still in the tournament, and there is a chance that DRG might Royal Road his way to the finals in this Terran-filled GSL (assuming that his Code A run doesn't disqualify him as a Royal Roader in Code S).
On September 29 2011 05:21 Adebisi wrote: I think this poll should have had an option for "Don't buy GSL anyway..."
Regardless, I bought it, I do play Terran after all but I will still always want to see as much GSL as possible, and even if it was all Z/P, I'd want to watch, looking at the round of 16, there's ALOT of good matches.
Yup. That being said I did buy the GSL ticket and I am enjoying the crap out of it. People need to stop being so butthurt about balance. I find the last P standing storyline to be quite cool, many Zergs advanced and a lot of P and Z on Code A anyways.
As I always tell anyone, the hardcore fans will always buy it. It's the GSL after all. Disappointing to see that the majority of fans are mostly casual/only like to watch their race plays (nothing wrong with that of course), but not surprising really. Although it shocks me to see that some don't realize that the value you get from Code A (which is extremely even race wise) is more than worth the ticket price itself, but I guess the people who would actually watch every Code A / Code S game are probably the hardcore fans as well that would always watch no matter what
I bought it, I've been buying since Season one, bought every extra league and I'm enjoying it so much like always! Code S TvTs are so high level they're amazing.
Didn't buy October and the one two seasons before. Only TvT is not the only factor, but a pretty big one. I often catch GSL stuff live anyway but even when I have a season ticket, I rarely check VODs of TvTs. Just seeing the same thing over and over again gets boring fast and is actually a massive time dump. And VODs aren't really educational neither, I'd rather watch replays from ESL cups/upcoming MLGs to learn some things about matchups.
TvT is the best mirror to watch because it's so advanced. and honestly i'm glad there are fewer toss in GSL atm. they really need to focus on develeoping their game. 4gate really took alot away from protoss since there was a time you could 4gate against all 3 races and do nothing but (MC land). this caused protoss metagame to stagnate and now that T and Z moved beyond it P is being outclassed pretty hard. i don't enjoy protoss games recently for this reason. but code A is very entertaining atm.
I didn't buy this season mostly because of diversity, but also because it's hard to get as excited for the games anymore like I used to. The two might be related. Had bought all other seasons except this one so yes, the all T fest has affected by purchasing decision.
On September 29 2011 06:12 PrinceXizor wrote: TvT is the best mirror to watch because it's so advanced. and honestly i'm glad there are fewer toss in GSL atm. they really need to focus on develeoping their game. 4gate really took alot away from protoss since there was a time you could 4gate against all 3 races and do nothing but (MC land). this caused protoss metagame to stagnate and now that T and Z moved beyond it P is being outclassed pretty hard. i don't enjoy protoss games recently for this reason. but code A is very entertaining atm.
I'm trying to figure out whether you're trolling or if you're actually disconnected enough from reality to believe what you wrote here.
It's not true that GOM can't do anything about racial imbalances that leave the tournament lopsided. They can produce maps that address imbalances.
For example, 1-1-1 is much easier to deal with when there's a large distance between bases. GOM can use large maps in the GSL with only cross-spawns if they want to put an end to that rush. Similarly, if they want to give P a leg up in PvZ, they can produce maps with a third that's easy to take and defend and that lack big open spaces inside the main/nat where nydus worms can pop up undetected. Maps with lots of choke points and few wide open spaces are P favored as well.
Balancing the game via mappool is way, way easier than balancing the game via changes to units and game mechanics.
i bought it, cause i think the TvTs you get to see are very nice to watch and most of them are very tense. so for me it was no question to get premium or not.
It's the reason I didn't buy it. I play zerg and the biggest reason I watch GSL is to see what the best zergs are doing. There are a few still, but I'm just not going to pay that much money for so few games in which Code S zergs are playing. If zerg were to make it to the finals I might buy it afterwards so I could go back and watch all the games, but it didn't make any sense to buy it ahead of time when they could all get knocked out early.
On September 29 2011 06:28 OldManZerg wrote: It's the reason I didn't buy it. I play zerg and the biggest reason I watch GSL is to see what the best zergs are doing. There are a few still, but I'm just not going to pay that much money for so few games in which Code S zergs are playing. If zerg were to make it to the finals I might buy it afterwards so I could go back and watch all the games, but it didn't make any sense to buy it ahead of time when they could all get knocked out early.
wait a sec
you like zerg and there is losira, coca, nestea, drg and leenock in there which are pretty much the top 5 zergs in the world right now (probably july instead of leenock but the rest pretty much is)
i could understand protoss players boycotting gsl but for zerg players gsl is still very interesting.
I have to be honest that I haven't bought the season ticket for Oct GSL mainly because TvT and current dark era of Protoss. I watch GSL to gain more strategies or tactics to play as Protoss but nothing encourages me at the moment. Well, maybe next season then..
On September 29 2011 06:34 jdreamer wrote: I have to be honest that I haven't bought the season ticket for Oct GSL mainly because TvT and current dark era of Protoss. I watch GSL to gain more strategies or tactics to play as Protoss but nothing encourages me at the moment. Well, maybe next season then..
On September 29 2011 04:05 omisa wrote: I find it sad that because of one season of terran dominance, people are actually boycotting the GSL. While i do agree that excessive amounts of TvT can really wear on you, the quality of the games this season have really been above any prior season. I feel as though the people who are not buying a season pass are also the same people who are all for supporting eSports, when its convenient.
At least its TvT, could you imagine if every night of GSL was PvP?
Its not really a boycott though, thats a really negative way to pigeon hole people. Theres a difference between an active boycott of 1 service and a decision that you actually would favour another service over it. Just because people have decided that they dont wish to continue buying GOM season tickets doesnt mean they arnt "supporting esports" either because competative gaming does not begin and end with the GSL. Theres only so many hours in a day that a person can spend watching starcraft 2 (20, with 4 hours to sleep/play) and if a person chooses to use those hours watching a different provider because TvT isnt their favourite matchup that doesnt make them a worse supporter.
In fact, if you look by days, there wasn't so much TvT this season. The first code S day was the most painful, with 7 terrans in 2 groups, but after that it was quite ok. (which is normal as 35% of the terran played in 25% of days)
We had in GSL October : 19 TvT 3 ZvZ 1 PvP 19 TvP 22 TvZ 33 ZvP
That's a lot of TvT in the mirror match group, but in the whole it's like 20% TvT overall, one game of five, it's not unbearable. Before the season started I was afraid of TvT saturation, but in fact I didn't really felt it.
Unrelated : this month was played the 2000th GSL game
On September 29 2011 05:22 EcstatiC wrote: lol i thought this thread was about not enough black people in the GSL.
honestly though, its sooo annoying. my team buys a GSL ticket each season, so although i did technically buy it, i dont think ive watched a TvT other than Sjow and Select's games. i saw group A of Code S, and raged hard, then saw group B and raged harder.
What's not to like about this season? TvT is a fun match-up, and there are lots of zergs doing great now. Killer will probably go down to CoCa, but it's all good fun either way.
I'm a zerg player cheering for all the terrans, because if we can make it to 28+ terrans in code S maybe blizzard will realize there's a problem... I actually don't mind watching TvTs, it's the most developed matchup, because terran still has the most potential of any race. I anticipate new styles and builds to keep being made for TvT, while the other terran matchups don't require new innovations yet, so they sit rather stale.
One of the benefits of this is that there's lots of ZvTs to study...
I bought AOL but not GSL 100% because of the fact that GSL has way too many terrans. TvT is my least favorite mirror now because it's so drawn out and passive so i'm not going to spend money to watch people play it even if they're better at it than anyone else.
Code A is great for protoss. Even if it isn't code S does that mean you won't watch anything but code S? No, as long as it is a high level (and code A is a higher level than just about anything but code S) it's still fun to watch. Twilight, JYP, Sage, and Hero have all shown some great tactics and builds.
On September 29 2011 06:42 MrCon wrote: In fact, if you look by days, there wasn't so much TvT this season. The first code S day was the most painful, with 7 terrans in 2 groups, but after that it was quite ok. (which is normal as 35% of the terran played in 25% of days)
We had in GSL October : 19 TvT 3 ZvZ 1 PvP 19 TvP 22 TvZ 33 ZvP
That's a lot of TvT in the mirror match group, but in the whole it's like 20% TvT overall, one game of five, it's not unbearable. Before the season started I was afraid of TvT saturation, but in fact I didn't really felt it.
Unrelated : this month was played the 2000th GSL game
This is how I feel too. There's a lot of TvT, but it's far from the worst mirror so it's not so bad (although the new PvP seems to have potential for good games).
I feel that people who focus on GomTvT don't watch Code A, which is short sighted. A full 21/32 Code S players came from Code A. And that's ignoring Leenock, Polt, MKP, MVP who all requalified after losing their up/down matches. Seriously, except at the very top (Nestea, MVP, Bomber, ect) the gap between Code A and Code S isn't that big.
Plus Wolf/Doa are becoming a pretty good casting pair (Moletrap is getting better too imo).
I actually don't think zerg will be the best race after HOTS. Zerg isn't the only race getting new units and I think terran has the best players because of how the race is setup instead of units. The flexibility of terran is a great quality. With that said it makes the best mirror matchup because of the multitude of builds the player can do. So lets be grateful it isn't pure pvp or zvz haha!
On September 29 2011 06:31 blackone wrote: We need to have some kind of licence for making polls. This one is horrible, mostly because a "I wouldn't have bought it anyways" options is missing.
And I bought a pass, TvT is a fine matchup in my opinion, I like it better than the other mirrors and probably more than ZvP.
Look at the title. Basically he's asking who usually buys a GSL pass but didn't buy one this season because of 20 Terrans. If you don't buy it anyways then this thread doesn't apply to you. This isn't "who on TL buys/don't buy GSL."
I didn't buy this season because I've never bought a season of the GSL. However, I did win an account from a trivia contest on Marineking's facebook page, so hooray!
I haven't bought my ticket yet as I always get to see the shows live and my interwebs can't handle anything higher than low quality anyway.
But, looking at the Ro16 brackets for Code S, this is actually looking like the best season of Code S so far, to be honest. Bomber vs MVP? Sure, its a TvT, but how high level is that going to be! GanZi vs Leenock? That's got potential to be a great TvZ. And what about some potential Ro8 or Ro4 meetings? NesTea vs either MVP or Bomber? DongRaeGu vs MVP or Bomber? And even watching certain players grow, like FXO_asd who is looking great, or SlayerS_CocA who is looking ridiculous...I'm actually greatly looking forward to this season, and TvT, even though it has the potential to be boring when certain players meet (but, fortunately, amazing when others do), is not going to stifle that enjoyment.
Just wanna throw this out there. I'm a poor student and i don't have to much money. Just wanna state i'd rather pay 50$ for all tournaments at once then 5x 10$. Anyone share this feeling? I just don't know that to spend my money on.
I bought a ticket as usual since I was looking at the Code A and saw there is at least a balanced amount of races there so I thought that would compensate a little.
But it's a freakin shame that there is so much Terran in Code S. The race is just too easy to play and got too powerful tier 1 units imo. That almost made me skip the ticket until I realized there is Code A aswell included in the price.
Agreed. As a buyer of every season of GSL, I skipped out on this one possibly due to a subconscious decline in interest caused by long, drawn-out TvT, and the availability of lots of quality free content, like the Korean Weekly.
On September 29 2011 07:37 RiT4LiN wrote: Just wanna throw this out there. I'm a poor student and i don't have to much money. Just wanna state i'd rather pay 50$ for all tournaments at once then 5x 10$. Anyone share this feeling? I just don't know that to spend my money on.
I would definitely pay the $50 for the all-year pass, even without much discounts. It's becoming a chore to make a transaction for every season and side-tournament like AoL.
GOMTV has done an amazing job, and certainly, code S is the highest level play, but they need to start adding more service for their long-time fans. Maybe something like offering premium streams of pro players practicing and more content that's "always on" cuz Starcraft is 24/7.
I bought it by default. It's a habit now for me. Something seriously fucked up would need to happen + Show Spoiler +
(something which makes me lose respect for GOMTV or a massive player exodus, or a big price hike, or Blizzard completely murdering the game, for example)
in order for me to stop buying the pass.
I am getting tired of the TvTs though. Also the poll should have had a "i wasn't going to buy it anyway" option. I don't believe for one second that HALF of people who would have bought the pass decided not to because of all the TvT.
I just got into a position where I can afford the GSL ticket. Thought about buying this season, but then realized how many terrans there are and just decided to go to sleep...
On September 29 2011 06:31 blackone wrote: We need to have some kind of licence for making polls. This one is horrible, mostly because a "I wouldn't have bought it anyways" options is missing.
And I bought a pass, TvT is a fine matchup in my opinion, I like it better than the other mirrors and probably more than ZvP.
Look at the title. Basically he's asking who usually buys a GSL pass but didn't buy one this season because of 20 Terrans. If you don't buy it anyways then this thread doesn't apply to you. This isn't "who on TL buys/don't buy GSL."
You're right, but that doesn't stop people from voting. People who didn't buy a ticket for other reasons aren't all going to not click on something because the answers don't apply to them.
Don't see much reason to complain now. It was looking grim for the early parts of the ro16, I thought we'd have a shit ton of terrans in the ro16, considering the first 4 groups had the only non-terran being Nestea.
If you're protoss I could understand being pissed off, Puzzle was the best the race had to offer in code S and he picked Bomber for some reason like an idiot -.-. The remaining Protoss weren't great to say the least and only 1 actually made it to the ro16, where he happens to be facing coca..
If you're zerg, however, it's one of the best seasons so far :D. Pretty much every zerg deserving of code S has it already. 5/7 badass zerg heroes have advanced to save this season, and it could have been 7/7 if only july and zenio played better. IMO, ZvT has always been the most entertaining matchup to watch, even with its history of balance issues, and we have it in spades this season.
Finally, even though there's some tvt..... ONE OF THEM IS BOMBER vs. MVP! Also, there's a good chance Ryung will meet MMA in the ro8. Ryung has wanted a piece of that ass for a long time, so that should be a cool series if it happens. Looking down the path to the finals however, I have a feeling they'll suck again. The top half of the bracket is too stacked. Best finals we could hope for his DRG/Nestea vs. MMA.
As a protoss who only enjoys protoss games or "big name games" (Mvp, Nestea, July, Nada, etc)
No way in hell I bought this season. So little protoss and we all knew most wouldn't make it out of groups anyway. Code a has been decent so far. I usually stay up till 5 am to watch it anyone but I fall alseep half way through so I only see the first few matches.
The poll answers are rather ridiculous. You seem to think that 'racial diversity' is an important issue to everyone, which it is not. How about 'I bought GSL pass because I don't care about such trivial matters?' This entire thread seems like a passive aggressive way to whine about balance/Terran dominance in Korea.
i personally haven't gotten any in quite a while. just something about the sheer number of tournaments to pay attention to, i just pick the ones that i enjoy a little bit more.
Bought every GSL so far, and if you haven't then you are really missing out. There's been some excellent games already, and for those whining about 'toss, just buy it for Sage in Code A, guy is UNREAL!)
On September 29 2011 06:31 blackone wrote: We need to have some kind of licence for making polls. This one is horrible, mostly because a "I wouldn't have bought it anyways" options is missing.
And I bought a pass, TvT is a fine matchup in my opinion, I like it better than the other mirrors and probably more than ZvP.
Look at the title. Basically he's asking who usually buys a GSL pass but didn't buy one this season because of 20 Terrans. If you don't buy it anyways then this thread doesn't apply to you. This isn't "who on TL buys/don't buy GSL."
I think you should look at the title. It says who didn't buy a GSL Oct pass because of racial uniformity, not who didn't buy a GSL Oct pass who usually do because of racial uniformity. Half the people that voted probably didn't even read past the first sentence of the OP and just looked at the poll. I do agree adding a third option for the fish that just vote because they can.
I was actually looking into buying a GSL pass for this season, but I found other things to spend money on and the low quality free stream is good enough for me, I enjoy watching TvT as it de/evolves. I've never bought a GSL pass because the low quality stream is ok for me, and I don't usually watch Vods.
On September 29 2011 06:28 OldManZerg wrote: It's the reason I didn't buy it. I play zerg and the biggest reason I watch GSL is to see what the best zergs are doing. There are a few still, but I'm just not going to pay that much money for so few games in which Code S zergs are playing. If zerg were to make it to the finals I might buy it afterwards so I could go back and watch all the games, but it didn't make any sense to buy it ahead of time when they could all get knocked out early.
wait a sec
you like zerg and there is losira, coca, nestea, drg and leenock in there which are pretty much the top 5 zergs in the world right now (probably july instead of leenock but the rest pretty much is)
i could understand protoss players boycotting gsl but for zerg players gsl is still very interesting.
Hmmm. . . I just saw all the Ts and sighed. But perhaps you're right. I'll still probably wait until it's a little father along.
Another way to keep things interesting is to change the format so that more players go to the up and down matches. The racial distribution in Code A is much better than code S, so that might be enough to limit the TvT mirror without having to change the game.
Protoss player here. I've bought every GSL since the beginning. I thought about buying GSL October, but didn't due to two reasons: (1) My studies are picking up in intensity and leaving me with less time, and (2) lack of racial diversity.
I probably won't be getting the next GSL season either, for the same reasons. Only 2 protoss guaranteed to be in code S next season... Code A is fun and more racially balanced, but not casted by Tastosis.
I figured it might be good for me to stick to mostly weekend tourneys, anyway, and the friend I watch with is just as tired of seeing only TvT as I am.
I don't think GOMTV can be blamed. Their job is to assemble the best players in the world, and the best players at the moment are mostly Terran. If that's down to imbalance, it's Blizzards job to fix that. If it's just down to trends, there's not really a good solution. However, it does make for pretty repetitive viewing, which is why I spent my money on the Arena of Legends instead.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That might actually be the worst idea i've ever heard. Let's force players to change races or remove them because it just so happens that there are a lot of terrans.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Yeah bad idea...if you start bringing over people who don't deserve/earn the spot then there will be a huge skill gap and make games way boring.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Got to echo the others and say this is the worst idea I've heard in a very long time.
Needs to be more options, I didnt buy this season because between GSTL/AoL and other content like IPL/SotG/NASL there is more than enough content out there
Mirrors are generally boring to watch, it is alright to watch them every now and then but with so much TT lately it's simply not fun anymore, even if I play Terran. Something definitely has to be done to fix the current state of the game.
Can't blame GOMTV for it though, this is in the hands of Blizzard.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
No, Bad Idea, but they can put more maps that are bad for terran (If such thing exist?!?!!?)
usually, maps that "protoss > terran", makes "terran > zerg" and maps that "zerg > terran", makes "terran > protoss".
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That might actually be the worst idea i've ever heard. Let's force players to change races or remove them because it just so happens that there are a lot of terrans.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Yeah bad idea...if you start bringing over people who don't deserve/earn the spot then there will be a huge skill gap and make games way boring.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Got to echo the others and say this is the worst idea I've heard in a very long time.
Actually its the best idea to fix the situation.
The only reason so many terrans win is because everyone plays terran.
It's best from an entertainment perspective to allow an equivalent number of best players from each race to play each other.
People don't like TvT? why? it's the most diverse match up with the most developed and intricate metagame so far in ANY of the match up, not to say mirrors
Don't lose faith people, really good protosses are coming into code S, MC will come back soon i hope, Huk is doing really well in code S too. Zerg have yugiho who can be really good and nestea/losira are already so badass.DRG is in code S too. There is not a lot of really good Terran in code S. MVP/MMA/GANZI/MKP maybe TAEJA and Supernova can be count in it (i'm talking about top notch terran). Others are good in TvT and not bad in an other match up but that's pretty much all.
Don't lose faith, diversity will come...
Edit: i love watching TvT but i love PvZ too and ZvZ are kind of fun time to time. It's not a matter of loving it or not, i just want to see something else.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That might actually be the worst idea i've ever heard. Let's force players to change races or remove them because it just so happens that there are a lot of terrans.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Yeah bad idea...if you start bringing over people who don't deserve/earn the spot then there will be a huge skill gap and make games way boring.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Got to echo the others and say this is the worst idea I've heard in a very long time.
Actually its the best idea to fix the situation.
The only reason so many terrans win is because everyone plays terran.
It's best from an entertainment perspective to allow an equivalent number of best players from each race to play each other.
Look how many people said no gsl b/c terrans?
It is a horrible idea. If you do this you need to have 8 spots in Code S reserved for Random players too and there are NOT that many good Random players. To simply kick people out of the GSL because they play a certain race no matter if they win or not is just dumb period.
The thing that is pissing me off the most is the milking by GOM. Since 2010 I've spent about $300 on GOM tickets and the recent AOL tournament forces you to pay to even watch live......
I hope SC2 appears on OGN soon because Korean commentators >>> Tastosis (even though I cant even understand Korean). Or at least give access to the GOM Korean commentators.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That might actually be the worst idea i've ever heard. Let's force players to change races or remove them because it just so happens that there are a lot of terrans.
On September 29 2011 08:20 zeru wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That's the worst idea ever.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Kieofire wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Yeah bad idea...if you start bringing over people who don't deserve/earn the spot then there will be a huge skill gap and make games way boring.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Fluffboll wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Got to echo the others and say this is the worst idea I've heard in a very long time.
Actually its the best idea to fix the situation.
The only reason so many terrans win is because everyone plays terran.
It's best from an entertainment perspective to allow an equivalent number of best players from each race to play each other.
Look how many people said no gsl b/c terrans?
It is a horrible idea. If you do this you need to have 8 spots in Code S reserved for Random players too and there are NOT that many good Random players. To simply kick people out of the GSL because they play a certain race no matter if they win or not is just dumb period.
You don't have to include random there are 3 races.
You wouldn't be kicking people out of the gsl, you'd be removing excess terrans that shouldn't be there in the first place.
I didn't buy it for the first time this year. I don't have time to keep up with all of it, especially with so many TvTs which tend to be long games.
I would really prefer the GSL to be the Top 10 players of each race + 2 the next two highest ranked players or invitees. I think the diversity would really spice it up and we'd still have at least the 12 top players in Korea.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That might actually be the worst idea i've ever heard. Let's force players to change races or remove them because it just so happens that there are a lot of terrans.
On September 29 2011 08:20 zeru wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That's the worst idea ever.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Kieofire wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Yeah bad idea...if you start bringing over people who don't deserve/earn the spot then there will be a huge skill gap and make games way boring.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Fluffboll wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Got to echo the others and say this is the worst idea I've heard in a very long time.
Actually its the best idea to fix the situation.
The only reason so many terrans win is because everyone plays terran.
It's best from an entertainment perspective to allow an equivalent number of best players from each race to play each other.
Look how many people said no gsl b/c terrans?
It is a horrible idea. If you do this you need to have 8 spots in Code S reserved for Random players too and there are NOT that many good Random players. To simply kick people out of the GSL because they play a certain race no matter if they win or not is just dumb period.
You don't have to include random there are 3 races.
You wouldn't be kicking people out of the gsl, you'd be removing excess terrans that shouldn't be there in the first place.
They deserve to be there because they earned their Code S spots, just handing out Code S spots for more diversity is plain wrong.
Edit: Also just because it is TvT heavy right now does not mean it is going to be TvT heavy in Code S forever, look at Code A if those players manage to do well in the Up&Down matches then it is going to be more diverse.
On September 29 2011 08:40 Highways wrote: I did buy it, but Terran is Blizzards fault.
The thing that is pissing me off the most is the milking by GOM. Since 2010 I've spent about $300 on GOM tickets and the recent AOL tournament forces you to pay to even watch live......
I hope SC2 appears on OGN soon because Korean commentators >>> Tastosis (even though I cant even understand Korean). Or at least give access to the GOM Korean commentators.
300 dollars? wtf? You know you don't have to get ad free all the time right?
On September 29 2011 08:46 Mylkyjo wrote: I didn't buy it for the first time this year. I don't have time to keep up with all of it, especially with so many TvTs which tend to be long games.
I would really prefer the GSL to be the Top 10 players of each race + 2 the next two highest ranked players or invitees. I think the diversity would really spice it up and we'd still have at least the 12 top players in Korea.
see other people agree, its a perfectly reasonable idea
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That might actually be the worst idea i've ever heard. Let's force players to change races or remove them because it just so happens that there are a lot of terrans.
On September 29 2011 08:20 zeru wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That's the worst idea ever.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Kieofire wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Yeah bad idea...if you start bringing over people who don't deserve/earn the spot then there will be a huge skill gap and make games way boring.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Fluffboll wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Got to echo the others and say this is the worst idea I've heard in a very long time.
Actually its the best idea to fix the situation.
The only reason so many terrans win is because everyone plays terran.
It's best from an entertainment perspective to allow an equivalent number of best players from each race to play each other.
Look how many people said no gsl b/c terrans?
It is a horrible idea. If you do this you need to have 8 spots in Code S reserved for Random players too and there are NOT that many good Random players. To simply kick people out of the GSL because they play a certain race no matter if they win or not is just dumb period.
You don't have to include random there are 3 races.
You wouldn't be kicking people out of the gsl, you'd be removing excess terrans that shouldn't be there in the first place.
They deserve to be there because they earned their Code S spots, just handing out Code S spots for more diversity is plain wrong.
Why? What people want to see are good players playing all the matchups. If they want their spots they can switch to a race they think they can place in.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That might actually be the worst idea i've ever heard. Let's force players to change races or remove them because it just so happens that there are a lot of terrans.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Yeah bad idea...if you start bringing over people who don't deserve/earn the spot then there will be a huge skill gap and make games way boring.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Got to echo the others and say this is the worst idea I've heard in a very long time.
The only reason so many terrans win is because everyone plays terran.
Terran doesn't have the most players in Korea, Protoss does. There is also no reason to think that the people who picked Terran or some how magically better at Starcraft.
I missed last season because of vacation but I bought this season. There are problems but this is still the competition to watch when you want to see the best players in the world.
Code A doesn't have that many terrans left and the games are quite entertaining. This competition moves too fast at the start for my liking but I would still buy the ticket just to watch code A.
Code S has something like a million terrans left but (sorry tvt haters) I actually like TvT. It can get a little boring when there is those 60 minute position mech games, but you get to watch tiny positional advantages win the game. In addition, not every TvT goes that direction. Some go bio-mech and once you start throwing in ghosts, nukes, and two maxed terran armies clashing, that final battle can be so entertaining as to make the whole thing worth it.
That said, I'm often bored when not watching starcraft, so maybe I'm just easily entertained.
On September 29 2011 08:46 Mylkyjo wrote: I didn't buy it for the first time this year. I don't have time to keep up with all of it, especially with so many TvTs which tend to be long games.
I would really prefer the GSL to be the Top 10 players of each race + 2 the next two highest ranked players or invitees. I think the diversity would really spice it up and we'd still have at least the 12 top players in Korea.
see other people agree, its a perfectly reasonable idea
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That might actually be the worst idea i've ever heard. Let's force players to change races or remove them because it just so happens that there are a lot of terrans.
On September 29 2011 08:20 zeru wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That's the worst idea ever.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Kieofire wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Yeah bad idea...if you start bringing over people who don't deserve/earn the spot then there will be a huge skill gap and make games way boring.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Fluffboll wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Got to echo the others and say this is the worst idea I've heard in a very long time.
Actually its the best idea to fix the situation.
The only reason so many terrans win is because everyone plays terran.
It's best from an entertainment perspective to allow an equivalent number of best players from each race to play each other.
Look how many people said no gsl b/c terrans?
It is a horrible idea. If you do this you need to have 8 spots in Code S reserved for Random players too and there are NOT that many good Random players. To simply kick people out of the GSL because they play a certain race no matter if they win or not is just dumb period.
You don't have to include random there are 3 races.
You wouldn't be kicking people out of the gsl, you'd be removing excess terrans that shouldn't be there in the first place.
They deserve to be there because they earned their Code S spots, just handing out Code S spots for more diversity is plain wrong.
Why? What people want to see are good players playing all the matchups. If they want their spots they can switch to a race they think they can place in.
That's completely stupid. First of all, people would STILL complain if the top players from one race lost to the other anyway and the race kept winning the tournaments or being in the finals regardless so it wouldn't be entertaining. If the other scenario was true, the top players from protoss, zerg, and terran were on an even footing, then that proves that the game is balanced at the highest level so there is no reason to limit players per race.
On September 29 2011 08:46 Mylkyjo wrote: I didn't buy it for the first time this year. I don't have time to keep up with all of it, especially with so many TvTs which tend to be long games.
I would really prefer the GSL to be the Top 10 players of each race + 2 the next two highest ranked players or invitees. I think the diversity would really spice it up and we'd still have at least the 12 top players in Korea.
see other people agree, its a perfectly reasonable idea
Well he changed your idea which was terrible. Some reserved slots might be ok, but across the board would be horrible.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That might actually be the worst idea i've ever heard. Let's force players to change races or remove them because it just so happens that there are a lot of terrans.
On September 29 2011 08:20 zeru wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That's the worst idea ever.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Kieofire wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Yeah bad idea...if you start bringing over people who don't deserve/earn the spot then there will be a huge skill gap and make games way boring.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Fluffboll wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Got to echo the others and say this is the worst idea I've heard in a very long time.
Actually its the best idea to fix the situation.
The only reason so many terrans win is because everyone plays terran.
It's best from an entertainment perspective to allow an equivalent number of best players from each race to play each other.
Look how many people said no gsl b/c terrans?
It is a horrible idea. If you do this you need to have 8 spots in Code S reserved for Random players too and there are NOT that many good Random players. To simply kick people out of the GSL because they play a certain race no matter if they win or not is just dumb period.
You don't have to include random there are 3 races.
You wouldn't be kicking people out of the gsl, you'd be removing excess terrans that shouldn't be there in the first place.
They deserve to be there because they earned their Code S spots, just handing out Code S spots for more diversity is plain wrong.
Why? What people want to see are good players playing all the matchups. If they want their spots they can switch to a race they think they can place in.
Forcing people to change races due to popularity or because you can't surpass the top players of your chosen race turns the competition into a farce and game quality is going to fall off really, really fast if players are constantly switching races due to current population balances.
That or they'll just go to other tournaments, which again, makes the competitive integrity of GSL a joke.
On September 29 2011 08:46 Mylkyjo wrote: I didn't buy it for the first time this year. I don't have time to keep up with all of it, especially with so many TvTs which tend to be long games.
I would really prefer the GSL to be the Top 10 players of each race + 2 the next two highest ranked players or invitees. I think the diversity would really spice it up and we'd still have at least the 12 top players in Korea.
see other people agree, its a perfectly reasonable idea
Well he changed your idea which was terrible. Some reserved slots might be ok, but across the board would be horrible.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That might actually be the worst idea i've ever heard. Let's force players to change races or remove them because it just so happens that there are a lot of terrans.
On September 29 2011 08:20 zeru wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That's the worst idea ever.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Kieofire wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Yeah bad idea...if you start bringing over people who don't deserve/earn the spot then there will be a huge skill gap and make games way boring.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Fluffboll wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Got to echo the others and say this is the worst idea I've heard in a very long time.
Actually its the best idea to fix the situation.
The only reason so many terrans win is because everyone plays terran.
It's best from an entertainment perspective to allow an equivalent number of best players from each race to play each other.
Look how many people said no gsl b/c terrans?
It is a horrible idea. If you do this you need to have 8 spots in Code S reserved for Random players too and there are NOT that many good Random players. To simply kick people out of the GSL because they play a certain race no matter if they win or not is just dumb period.
You don't have to include random there are 3 races.
You wouldn't be kicking people out of the gsl, you'd be removing excess terrans that shouldn't be there in the first place.
They deserve to be there because they earned their Code S spots, just handing out Code S spots for more diversity is plain wrong.
Why? What people want to see are good players playing all the matchups. If they want their spots they can switch to a race they think they can place in.
Forcing people to change races due to popularity or because you can't surpass the top players of your chosen race turns the competition into a farce and game quality is going to fall off really, really fast if players are constantly switching races due to current population balances.
That or they'll just go to other tournaments, which again, makes the competitive integrity of GSL a joke.
Was about ready to type that.
I'll just add that pros might be decent at playing other races but it will take a huge amount of time to be able to compete with the best players in Code S, so what that dude you are quoting is saying is that he would like to see matches that would be more diverse but less fun to watch because of skill gaps.
On September 29 2011 08:46 Mylkyjo wrote: I didn't buy it for the first time this year. I don't have time to keep up with all of it, especially with so many TvTs which tend to be long games.
I would really prefer the GSL to be the Top 10 players of each race + 2 the next two highest ranked players or invitees. I think the diversity would really spice it up and we'd still have at least the 12 top players in Korea.
see other people agree, its a perfectly reasonable idea
On September 29 2011 08:47 Kieofire wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:45 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:39 Fluffboll wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:36 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:20 Dodgin wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That might actually be the worst idea i've ever heard. Let's force players to change races or remove them because it just so happens that there are a lot of terrans.
On September 29 2011 08:20 zeru wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That's the worst idea ever.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Kieofire wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Yeah bad idea...if you start bringing over people who don't deserve/earn the spot then there will be a huge skill gap and make games way boring.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Fluffboll wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Got to echo the others and say this is the worst idea I've heard in a very long time.
Actually its the best idea to fix the situation.
The only reason so many terrans win is because everyone plays terran.
It's best from an entertainment perspective to allow an equivalent number of best players from each race to play each other.
Look how many people said no gsl b/c terrans?
It is a horrible idea. If you do this you need to have 8 spots in Code S reserved for Random players too and there are NOT that many good Random players. To simply kick people out of the GSL because they play a certain race no matter if they win or not is just dumb period.
You don't have to include random there are 3 races.
You wouldn't be kicking people out of the gsl, you'd be removing excess terrans that shouldn't be there in the first place.
They deserve to be there because they earned their Code S spots, just handing out Code S spots for more diversity is plain wrong.
Why? What people want to see are good players playing all the matchups. If they want their spots they can switch to a race they think they can place in.
That's completely stupid. First of all, people would STILL complain if the top players from one race lost to the other anyway and the race kept winning the tournaments or being in the finals regardless so it wouldn't be entertaining. If the other scenario was true, the top players from protoss, zerg, and terran were on an even footing, then that proves that the game is balanced at the highest level so there is no reason to limit players per race.
It's a stupid idea and changes nothing.
It doesn't matter if people complained as long as they watched. And right now there are too many terrans and people don't want to watch anymore. Do you see the poll?
It's proving extremely difficult for Blizzard to balance their game all around and at the highest level as they said they would. To smooth the situation, providing an equal number of positions for each race makes sense.
One race wouldn't keep losing to the other. The problem is there is a large number of terrans, and if each game has an element of luck they have the biggest chances of winning because of their numbers.
On September 29 2011 08:46 Mylkyjo wrote: I didn't buy it for the first time this year. I don't have time to keep up with all of it, especially with so many TvTs which tend to be long games.
I would really prefer the GSL to be the Top 10 players of each race + 2 the next two highest ranked players or invitees. I think the diversity would really spice it up and we'd still have at least the 12 top players in Korea.
see other people agree, its a perfectly reasonable idea
Well he changed your idea which was terrible. Some reserved slots might be ok, but across the board would be horrible.
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That might actually be the worst idea i've ever heard. Let's force players to change races or remove them because it just so happens that there are a lot of terrans.
On September 29 2011 08:20 zeru wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That's the worst idea ever.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Kieofire wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Yeah bad idea...if you start bringing over people who don't deserve/earn the spot then there will be a huge skill gap and make games way boring.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Fluffboll wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Got to echo the others and say this is the worst idea I've heard in a very long time.
Actually its the best idea to fix the situation.
The only reason so many terrans win is because everyone plays terran.
It's best from an entertainment perspective to allow an equivalent number of best players from each race to play each other.
Look how many people said no gsl b/c terrans?
It is a horrible idea. If you do this you need to have 8 spots in Code S reserved for Random players too and there are NOT that many good Random players. To simply kick people out of the GSL because they play a certain race no matter if they win or not is just dumb period.
You don't have to include random there are 3 races.
You wouldn't be kicking people out of the gsl, you'd be removing excess terrans that shouldn't be there in the first place.
They deserve to be there because they earned their Code S spots, just handing out Code S spots for more diversity is plain wrong.
Why? What people want to see are good players playing all the matchups. If they want their spots they can switch to a race they think they can place in.
Forcing people to change races due to popularity or because you can't surpass the top players of your chosen race turns the competition into a farce and game quality is going to fall off really, really fast if players are constantly switching races due to current population balances.
That or they'll just go to other tournaments, which again, makes the competitive integrity of GSL a joke.
Players don't switch teams in sports constantly? If someone has the skill to switch races constantly and continue placing top in the gsl I think that would be amazing.
On September 29 2011 08:46 Mylkyjo wrote: I didn't buy it for the first time this year. I don't have time to keep up with all of it, especially with so many TvTs which tend to be long games.
I would really prefer the GSL to be the Top 10 players of each race + 2 the next two highest ranked players or invitees. I think the diversity would really spice it up and we'd still have at least the 12 top players in Korea.
see other people agree, its a perfectly reasonable idea
Well he changed your idea which was terrible. Some reserved slots might be ok, but across the board would be horrible.
On September 29 2011 08:50 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:47 Kieofire wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:45 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:39 Fluffboll wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:36 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:20 Dodgin wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That might actually be the worst idea i've ever heard. Let's force players to change races or remove them because it just so happens that there are a lot of terrans.
On September 29 2011 08:20 zeru wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That's the worst idea ever.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Kieofire wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Yeah bad idea...if you start bringing over people who don't deserve/earn the spot then there will be a huge skill gap and make games way boring.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Fluffboll wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Got to echo the others and say this is the worst idea I've heard in a very long time.
Actually its the best idea to fix the situation.
The only reason so many terrans win is because everyone plays terran.
It's best from an entertainment perspective to allow an equivalent number of best players from each race to play each other.
Look how many people said no gsl b/c terrans?
It is a horrible idea. If you do this you need to have 8 spots in Code S reserved for Random players too and there are NOT that many good Random players. To simply kick people out of the GSL because they play a certain race no matter if they win or not is just dumb period.
You don't have to include random there are 3 races.
You wouldn't be kicking people out of the gsl, you'd be removing excess terrans that shouldn't be there in the first place.
They deserve to be there because they earned their Code S spots, just handing out Code S spots for more diversity is plain wrong.
Why? What people want to see are good players playing all the matchups. If they want their spots they can switch to a race they think they can place in.
Forcing people to change races due to popularity or because you can't surpass the top players of your chosen race turns the competition into a farce and game quality is going to fall off really, really fast if players are constantly switching races due to current population balances.
That or they'll just go to other tournaments, which again, makes the competitive integrity of GSL a joke.
Was about ready to type that.
I'll just add that pros might be decent at playing other races but it will take a huge amount of time to be able to compete with the best players in Code S, so what that dude you are quoting is saying is that he would like to see matches that would be more diverse but less fun to watch because of skill gaps.
Less fun to watch? Because there are just massive skill gaps in the gsl right? That's why everyone remains in Code S without every falling out right?
I'd rather watch quality games instead of watching lower quality games of EU and Americans. Plus Tastosis is just so good and funny. This season is so good.
On September 29 2011 08:46 Mylkyjo wrote: I didn't buy it for the first time this year. I don't have time to keep up with all of it, especially with so many TvTs which tend to be long games.
I would really prefer the GSL to be the Top 10 players of each race + 2 the next two highest ranked players or invitees. I think the diversity would really spice it up and we'd still have at least the 12 top players in Korea.
see other people agree, its a perfectly reasonable idea
Well he changed your idea which was terrible. Some reserved slots might be ok, but across the board would be horrible.
On September 29 2011 08:50 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:47 Kieofire wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:45 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:39 Fluffboll wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:36 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:20 Dodgin wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote: [quote]
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That might actually be the worst idea i've ever heard. Let's force players to change races or remove them because it just so happens that there are a lot of terrans.
On September 29 2011 08:20 zeru wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote: [quote]
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That's the worst idea ever.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Kieofire wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote: [quote]
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Yeah bad idea...if you start bringing over people who don't deserve/earn the spot then there will be a huge skill gap and make games way boring.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Fluffboll wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote: [quote]
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Got to echo the others and say this is the worst idea I've heard in a very long time.
Actually its the best idea to fix the situation.
The only reason so many terrans win is because everyone plays terran.
It's best from an entertainment perspective to allow an equivalent number of best players from each race to play each other.
Look how many people said no gsl b/c terrans?
It is a horrible idea. If you do this you need to have 8 spots in Code S reserved for Random players too and there are NOT that many good Random players. To simply kick people out of the GSL because they play a certain race no matter if they win or not is just dumb period.
You don't have to include random there are 3 races.
You wouldn't be kicking people out of the gsl, you'd be removing excess terrans that shouldn't be there in the first place.
They deserve to be there because they earned their Code S spots, just handing out Code S spots for more diversity is plain wrong.
Why? What people want to see are good players playing all the matchups. If they want their spots they can switch to a race they think they can place in.
Forcing people to change races due to popularity or because you can't surpass the top players of your chosen race turns the competition into a farce and game quality is going to fall off really, really fast if players are constantly switching races due to current population balances.
That or they'll just go to other tournaments, which again, makes the competitive integrity of GSL a joke.
Was about ready to type that.
I'll just add that pros might be decent at playing other races but it will take a huge amount of time to be able to compete with the best players in Code S, so what that dude you are quoting is saying is that he would like to see matches that would be more diverse but less fun to watch because of skill gaps.
Less fun to watch? Because there are just massive skill gaps in the gsl right? That's why everyone remains in Code S without every falling out right?
Where do you get everyone stays in Code S? MarineKing fell out and earned his way back up, Byun fell out and is now in Code B, sC fell out and is now stuck in code A (out of Terran players and many more players from other races fell out also.) Many players from this season will be going to the up&down matches and can lose their spots but that is up to the players from Code A to knock them out. Just because there are so many terran's doesn't mean they don't deserve it they either won their way up from Code A or kept their spot by winning in the up&Down matches.
On September 29 2011 08:46 Mylkyjo wrote: I didn't buy it for the first time this year. I don't have time to keep up with all of it, especially with so many TvTs which tend to be long games.
I would really prefer the GSL to be the Top 10 players of each race + 2 the next two highest ranked players or invitees. I think the diversity would really spice it up and we'd still have at least the 12 top players in Korea.
see other people agree, its a perfectly reasonable idea
Well he changed your idea which was terrible. Some reserved slots might be ok, but across the board would be horrible.
On September 29 2011 08:50 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:47 Kieofire wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:45 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:39 Fluffboll wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:36 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:20 Dodgin wrote: [quote]
That might actually be the worst idea i've ever heard. Let's force players to change races or remove them because it just so happens that there are a lot of terrans.
On September 29 2011 08:20 zeru wrote: [quote] That's the worst idea ever.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Kieofire wrote: [quote]
Yeah bad idea...if you start bringing over people who don't deserve/earn the spot then there will be a huge skill gap and make games way boring.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Fluffboll wrote: [quote] Got to echo the others and say this is the worst idea I've heard in a very long time.
Actually its the best idea to fix the situation.
The only reason so many terrans win is because everyone plays terran.
It's best from an entertainment perspective to allow an equivalent number of best players from each race to play each other.
Look how many people said no gsl b/c terrans?
It is a horrible idea. If you do this you need to have 8 spots in Code S reserved for Random players too and there are NOT that many good Random players. To simply kick people out of the GSL because they play a certain race no matter if they win or not is just dumb period.
You don't have to include random there are 3 races.
You wouldn't be kicking people out of the gsl, you'd be removing excess terrans that shouldn't be there in the first place.
They deserve to be there because they earned their Code S spots, just handing out Code S spots for more diversity is plain wrong.
Why? What people want to see are good players playing all the matchups. If they want their spots they can switch to a race they think they can place in.
Forcing people to change races due to popularity or because you can't surpass the top players of your chosen race turns the competition into a farce and game quality is going to fall off really, really fast if players are constantly switching races due to current population balances.
That or they'll just go to other tournaments, which again, makes the competitive integrity of GSL a joke.
Was about ready to type that.
I'll just add that pros might be decent at playing other races but it will take a huge amount of time to be able to compete with the best players in Code S, so what that dude you are quoting is saying is that he would like to see matches that would be more diverse but less fun to watch because of skill gaps.
Less fun to watch? Because there are just massive skill gaps in the gsl right? That's why everyone remains in Code S without every falling out right?
Where do you get everyone stays in Code S? MarineKing fell out and earned his way back up, Byun fell out and is now in Code B, sC fell out and is now stuck in code A (out of Terran players and many more players from other races fell out also.) Many players from this season will be going to the up&down matches and can lose their spots but that is up to the players from Code A to knock them out. Just because there are so many terran's doesn't mean they don't deserve it they either won their way up from Code A or kept their spot by winning in the up&Down matches.
you should read the guy you quoted again...
EDIT: I don't agree with him... but I can see something like the 6-8 better players of each race (by GSL points) and the other spots are for the other players with no race specific.
code A & S reached a point where the players skills are almost the same, and something like maps, mood and balance, can put a player in code S some day, and not in other day.
TvT is usually a boring matchup nowadays unless you get the rare game 1 of the last finals. Even Rain vs Boxer Mlg was boring until the 10 second engagement. And bio destroying pure mech is just disappointing.
TvZ is not fun to watch unless the zerg is a tip top player like Nestea. Losira getting double 11-11 made me turn off the Gsl.
PvT is a coinflip and the recent surge of marine/banshee/tank play makes me cut off Sc2 streams. I can lose the same way to the exact same timing on ladder why would I want to watch Huk micro his ass off just to lose to it like everyone else does.
PvZ is terrible to watch as a protoss unless someone like Hero or Sage is playing. Anything else is a waste of time because you already know the games going to turn out. Protoss ffe then gets rolled or the zerg plays like shit and hands the game to protoss by donating 80 roach to 1 colossus.
PvP is sad because protoss is so few and no more Mc domination
ZvZ only if its Nestea is worth watching anymore.
Sc2 is the bigger problem imo then Gsl. Just gets boring to watch after awhile. Me and a few friends just flat out stopped watching/paying for it and are now screwing around on bf3 and waiting for all the new games to come out.
On September 29 2011 08:46 Mylkyjo wrote: I didn't buy it for the first time this year. I don't have time to keep up with all of it, especially with so many TvTs which tend to be long games.
I would really prefer the GSL to be the Top 10 players of each race + 2 the next two highest ranked players or invitees. I think the diversity would really spice it up and we'd still have at least the 12 top players in Korea.
see other people agree, its a perfectly reasonable idea
Well he changed your idea which was terrible. Some reserved slots might be ok, but across the board would be horrible.
On September 29 2011 08:50 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:47 Kieofire wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:45 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:39 Fluffboll wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:36 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:20 Dodgin wrote: [quote]
That might actually be the worst idea i've ever heard. Let's force players to change races or remove them because it just so happens that there are a lot of terrans.
On September 29 2011 08:20 zeru wrote: [quote] That's the worst idea ever.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Kieofire wrote: [quote]
Yeah bad idea...if you start bringing over people who don't deserve/earn the spot then there will be a huge skill gap and make games way boring.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Fluffboll wrote: [quote] Got to echo the others and say this is the worst idea I've heard in a very long time.
Actually its the best idea to fix the situation.
The only reason so many terrans win is because everyone plays terran.
It's best from an entertainment perspective to allow an equivalent number of best players from each race to play each other.
Look how many people said no gsl b/c terrans?
It is a horrible idea. If you do this you need to have 8 spots in Code S reserved for Random players too and there are NOT that many good Random players. To simply kick people out of the GSL because they play a certain race no matter if they win or not is just dumb period.
You don't have to include random there are 3 races.
You wouldn't be kicking people out of the gsl, you'd be removing excess terrans that shouldn't be there in the first place.
They deserve to be there because they earned their Code S spots, just handing out Code S spots for more diversity is plain wrong.
Why? What people want to see are good players playing all the matchups. If they want their spots they can switch to a race they think they can place in.
Forcing people to change races due to popularity or because you can't surpass the top players of your chosen race turns the competition into a farce and game quality is going to fall off really, really fast if players are constantly switching races due to current population balances.
That or they'll just go to other tournaments, which again, makes the competitive integrity of GSL a joke.
Was about ready to type that.
I'll just add that pros might be decent at playing other races but it will take a huge amount of time to be able to compete with the best players in Code S, so what that dude you are quoting is saying is that he would like to see matches that would be more diverse but less fun to watch because of skill gaps.
Less fun to watch? Because there are just massive skill gaps in the gsl right? That's why everyone remains in Code S without every falling out right?
Where do you get everyone stays in Code S? MarineKing fell out and earned his way back up, Byun fell out and is now in Code B, sC fell out and is now stuck in code A (out of Terran players and many more players from other races fell out also.) Many players from this season will be going to the up&down matches and can lose their spots but that is up to the players from Code A to knock them out. Just because there are so many terran's doesn't mean they don't deserve it they either won their way up from Code A or kept their spot by winning in the up&Down matches.
Keiofire you said, "so what that dude you are quoting is saying is that he would like to see matches that would be more diverse but less fun to watch because of skill gaps."
What you are saying in that statement is the zerg and protoss players are much worse than the terrans because of a skill gap.
I'm saying that's not true, the only reason there are so many terrans is because their large numbers grants them an advantage in a game where you can win by chance.
As for what you just said, I was never arguing against that, I think you're just confused.
On September 29 2011 08:46 Mylkyjo wrote: I didn't buy it for the first time this year. I don't have time to keep up with all of it, especially with so many TvTs which tend to be long games.
I would really prefer the GSL to be the Top 10 players of each race + 2 the next two highest ranked players or invitees. I think the diversity would really spice it up and we'd still have at least the 12 top players in Korea.
see other people agree, its a perfectly reasonable idea
Well he changed your idea which was terrible. Some reserved slots might be ok, but across the board would be horrible.
On September 29 2011 08:50 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:47 Kieofire wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:45 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:39 Fluffboll wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:36 sc2trainer wrote: [quote]
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
Actually its the best idea to fix the situation.
The only reason so many terrans win is because everyone plays terran.
It's best from an entertainment perspective to allow an equivalent number of best players from each race to play each other.
Look how many people said no gsl b/c terrans?
It is a horrible idea. If you do this you need to have 8 spots in Code S reserved for Random players too and there are NOT that many good Random players. To simply kick people out of the GSL because they play a certain race no matter if they win or not is just dumb period.
You don't have to include random there are 3 races.
You wouldn't be kicking people out of the gsl, you'd be removing excess terrans that shouldn't be there in the first place.
They deserve to be there because they earned their Code S spots, just handing out Code S spots for more diversity is plain wrong.
Why? What people want to see are good players playing all the matchups. If they want their spots they can switch to a race they think they can place in.
Forcing people to change races due to popularity or because you can't surpass the top players of your chosen race turns the competition into a farce and game quality is going to fall off really, really fast if players are constantly switching races due to current population balances.
That or they'll just go to other tournaments, which again, makes the competitive integrity of GSL a joke.
Was about ready to type that.
I'll just add that pros might be decent at playing other races but it will take a huge amount of time to be able to compete with the best players in Code S, so what that dude you are quoting is saying is that he would like to see matches that would be more diverse but less fun to watch because of skill gaps.
Less fun to watch? Because there are just massive skill gaps in the gsl right? That's why everyone remains in Code S without every falling out right?
Where do you get everyone stays in Code S? MarineKing fell out and earned his way back up, Byun fell out and is now in Code B, sC fell out and is now stuck in code A (out of Terran players and many more players from other races fell out also.) Many players from this season will be going to the up&down matches and can lose their spots but that is up to the players from Code A to knock them out. Just because there are so many terran's doesn't mean they don't deserve it they either won their way up from Code A or kept their spot by winning in the up&Down matches.
Keiofire you said, "so what that dude you are quoting is saying is that he would like to see matches that would be more diverse but less fun to watch because of skill gaps."
What you are saying in that statement is the zerg and protoss players are much worse than the terrans because of a skill gap.
I'm saying that's not true, the only reason there are so many terrans is because their large numbers grants them an advantage in a game where you can win by chance.
As for what you just said, I was never arguing against that, I think you're just confused.
Fair enough I read it differently, but I will stop now everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
Edit: But while I don't agree with exactly what you want I would like to see some changes in the format of the GSL to make it more exciting.
I'd ractually ather watch some real sports competition than a game that is obviously not fair for players who eventually picked the wrong race. Sure, Code A might be diverse, but theres just something wrong if the best of the best are almost exclusively terran for a few months in a row now. It might be a bit more enjoyable (though still a bit shallow from a competitive point of view..) if I enjoyed TvT. Bad luck for GOM, they're doing an awesome job in principle, and I really liked the first seasons, but theres no way I'm paying to watch a competition that feels fake. its just a sad situation overall.
First season I didn't buy, I usually watch live and high quality lags like hell, I only bought it before to support the GSL but with the amount of Terrans and such it wasn't worth it for me.
Im a zerg player and honestly I only watch the games that have Zerg pros in them. I am entertained while learning when I watch zerg pros play but as its been stated before there seem to be a lot more TvT matches and less and less zerg matchs. Also Tastosis hanst been casting as much and the code A casters have been hit and miss. That along with how gom handled the password incident didnt make me feel like buying a ticket this time around and I have bought every season for sc2 to date.
Id also like to point out something Incontrol brought up in SOTG the GSL has a new champion every couple of months. GSL is loosing its excitement theres no build up to the finals and the finals for the most part have been pretty one sided. I think GLS need to change its format I dont really know how they should do it I just know im not being entertained enough to spend my money on a season ticket atm.
I didn't buy the season, but that's because I never buy the GSL since I can't stay up that late to watch, but assuming I bought it all the time the amount of TvT probably wouldn't deter me from it.
TvT and TvZ are my favorite matchups to watch, and there's been plenty of both. Protoss just aren't usually enjoyable to watch for me. They can't really harass consistently because of the high cost of their units, and they don't really have any units that can effectively control space past the point in the game where sentries can do so. As a result, games including Protoss rarely turn on chess-like positional advantages or superior multitasking; instead, they depend more on which player has the better unit composition and who micros more effectively. I find that style of play less strategic and less interesting to watch, especially in longer games. Hopefully the upcoming expansion will help add more strategic depth to Protoss play so that those games are more enjoyable for me as a spectator, but until then I'll stick with GomTvT.
I got it to watch code a and wcg vods. If it wasnt for the WCG vods I wouldnt have all the seasons purchased as i do now. Code S is not that interesting to me though.
i cant say that tvt is my favorite matchup, but its not enough to completely not watch gsl. i do root for the protoss and zerg in every matchup though. =)
I didn't buy it this season cause I just don't have the time to watch the games live or the vods. Whenever I do have the time I just prefer to play than watch games. Hopefully I have more timdhe for the next GSL. And I hope more protoss are in next GSL.
I pretty much buy GSL passes to watch Tastosis, Nestea, MVP, and other Zergs and Terrans, in that order. I didn't buy a pass this season though, but not because of the TvTs, I just didn't want to spend the money.
On September 29 2011 08:46 Mylkyjo wrote: I didn't buy it for the first time this year. I don't have time to keep up with all of it, especially with so many TvTs which tend to be long games.
I would really prefer the GSL to be the Top 10 players of each race + 2 the next two highest ranked players or invitees. I think the diversity would really spice it up and we'd still have at least the 12 top players in Korea.
see other people agree, its a perfectly reasonable idea
Well he changed your idea which was terrible. Some reserved slots might be ok, but across the board would be horrible.
On September 29 2011 08:50 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:47 Kieofire wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:45 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:39 Fluffboll wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:36 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:20 Dodgin wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That might actually be the worst idea i've ever heard. Let's force players to change races or remove them because it just so happens that there are a lot of terrans.
On September 29 2011 08:20 zeru wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
That's the worst idea ever.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Kieofire wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Yeah bad idea...if you start bringing over people who don't deserve/earn the spot then there will be a huge skill gap and make games way boring.
On September 29 2011 08:22 Fluffboll wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:18 sc2trainer wrote:
On September 29 2011 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote: There isn't anything Gom can do about it that wouldn't cause more harm to the tournament than it would help.
That's a fact.
Force equal number of positions for all 3 races.
Got to echo the others and say this is the worst idea I've heard in a very long time.
Actually its the best idea to fix the situation.
The only reason so many terrans win is because everyone plays terran.
It's best from an entertainment perspective to allow an equivalent number of best players from each race to play each other.
Look how many people said no gsl b/c terrans?
It is a horrible idea. If you do this you need to have 8 spots in Code S reserved for Random players too and there are NOT that many good Random players. To simply kick people out of the GSL because they play a certain race no matter if they win or not is just dumb period.
You don't have to include random there are 3 races.
You wouldn't be kicking people out of the gsl, you'd be removing excess terrans that shouldn't be there in the first place.
They deserve to be there because they earned their Code S spots, just handing out Code S spots for more diversity is plain wrong.
Why? What people want to see are good players playing all the matchups. If they want their spots they can switch to a race they think they can place in.
Forcing people to change races due to popularity or because you can't surpass the top players of your chosen race turns the competition into a farce and game quality is going to fall off really, really fast if players are constantly switching races due to current population balances.
That or they'll just go to other tournaments, which again, makes the competitive integrity of GSL a joke.
Players don't switch teams in sports constantly? If someone has the skill to switch races constantly and continue placing top in the gsl I think that would be amazing.
You people overreact way too much.
Do you honestly believe playing on a different team is the same as changing races?
If you want the real sports analogy then it's changing positions. It happens sometimes and often is a huge mess (happens all the time in the NBA where they try to shoe-horn a new Shooting Guard into playing Point Guard).
I don't see too many successful Soccer Goalies making the switch to Striker for example.
It does happen sometimes between Amateur to Pro, but usually it's a case of the guy dominating Amateur so thoroughly that he plays multiple positions for the hell of it.
Why don't we just look at what happened to all the Pro Random players in SC2? They've all picked a race because you just can't keep up without really bearing down on a single race.
i still bought it, to me TvT is the most diverse, beautiful matchup in the game, and never get tired of it. every match is so strategic... but i guess all the BW players and spectators are used to this kind of game, while the newer players aren't too used to it yet. trust me, its really great once you get past the length and some of the more uneventful parts of the game.
Was a no brainer for me to buy it this season since i got AOL free with it.
I really think that people have underestimated just how high calibre the code S zergs are this season despite there numbers. I could easily see there being just as many zergs as terrans left in the round of 8.
Code A has had no such terran dominance, the team league has been fucking amazing, and GOM even set up Arena of Legends apparently for the sole purpose of having a competition with full racial diversity.
Even if Code S is a total blowout for somebody, I can't understand why they would suddenly not watch GSL at all.
I've bought every season save for the first and the last 2, personally I find TvT the most boring match up and with the vast amount of terrans, I don't think I'd find it very entertaining haha.
I also find it funny that some of the posts in this thread are saying that a large majority of the best players in the world just happen to be terran. You can't actually think that, can you?
This has actually been a great season so far I feel bad for people who didnt buy a ticket. This is the best code a has been since it was casted by tastosis themselves. Good games good casters. And on top of that you have code s which is awesome just like always
I just thought of something funny. (hypothetical dont take it serious) gom subsidized playing protoss. Like if you play as protoss you get an extra 500 dollars. That way all of the good players dont pick terran just because.
I'm here to watch the best players, I don't care what the matchup is. Sure, there's a lot of fucking long-ass TvTs (cough cough BoxeR vs Rain) and the whole tournament is practically free of protoss, but a lot of the time they turn out pretty interesting.
Regardless, I didn't buy a season pass because I couldn't get it right at the start, and I want to get the most out of my money. Have to say, though, I was more excited for Code A than Code S in the first week. Love seeing foreigners play in the GSL.
this season is even better than the past seasons. instead of someone like nestea just going through a season without meeting anyone high level.
this sason has the dream matches / matchups that will finally happen (mvp, dongraegu, mma, bomber, nestea, losira... in addition to people ready to make huge splashes including ganzi, ryung, coca, leenock, ...etc).
this season is by far the highest level yet, and it's going to be amazing. can you even confidently make a top 4 prediction? me neither.
I'm a terran so I absolutely freakin' love it, but I DEFINITELY would not buy a ticket if the amount of terrans was changed with zergs or toss, so I can see where everyone is coming from.
I never stop watching Hockey or Basketball just because it's the same game every game, so neither will I stop watching GSL, especially since TvT is the best match up to watch.
I didn't but it, but not because of the TvT, I like TvT. It's just there is never a break with the GSL, it loses it's magic and starts to become a chore to watch. A break should clear that up for me
The sad thing is theres nothing GOM can do about this even if they start losing/making less money. You can even tell the casters are kind of tired of TvT all the time :/
I never buy a gsl ticket tbh. Is true that with the lack of other match ups then TvX match up and a lot of chees from the tosses in PvZ + the Code A where my toss "heroes" are is not casted by Tastosis or at least half of the archon + wolf/DoA is making the gsl less enjoyable and i don't even tune in to live stream most of the time nowadays BUT there are a lot of great tournaments and im sure GSL will be "fixed" in time.
On September 29 2011 14:30 sheaRZerg wrote: haha....was I the only one that thought racial was going to mean in the "koreans own white dudes" sense? I guess its been that way for some time now.
I had assumed it, but it makes more sense this way lol. With any luck we see some new non-terran blood in there within the next season or two, and access to code A is a good way to find out
EDIT: I don't agree with him... but I can see something like the 6-8 better players of each race (by GSL points) and the other spots are for the other players with no race specific.
code A & S reached a point where the players skills are almost the same, and something like maps, mood and balance, can put a player in code S some day, and not in other day.
This would lead to kinda the same situation as MLG Pool Play where everyone complains about. People who did well in the past and have fallen off (Like Incontrol for MLG or Genius for GSL) would be stuck in Code S for like forever and it would be extremly difficult for new talented players (like Oz, Hero, JYP and Sage) to earn enough points to surpass them.
I don't know how people can think that'd be a good idea ._.
On topic: Didn't buy cause I'm a poor student and I can watch it live at a resonable time in Germany. May consider buying it next season when I'm busy again, no matter how many P/T/Z are in Code S.
Every race has been on the bottom of the totem pole as far as the GSL goes. For four months, Terran could not win a championship all through the open season, until MVP and MKP took the two top spots of GSL Jan. Around the same time in January and a couple months afterward was when EGIdra was crying "Imbalanced" when it was only he and Nestea were trying to win, but only placed as high as the Round of 8. Now, unfortunetly, as I play Protoss is the worst time for the race as I switched this season to play solely Protoss. I've been solely looking around the streams only for Protoss players. There are some good styles out there, and things are going to change with Patch 1.4, and players will figure out new strategies.
Also I think TvT is a complicated matchup; which obviously it take some skill to play and win. Even if it is Tank vs Tank, there is alot of skill where you shouldn't overcommit, that you use extra vision with Vikings, and Scan (when to scan, when to mule), etc. TvT has to be most strategic. Also, it doesn't have to be Tank v. Tank. There are plenty Tank v. Bio, Bio/Mech, the Sky Terran tech switch.
Did racial diversity affect your decision to buy a season pass to gsl october?
Yes, but I bought it anyways Yes, I did not buy a season pass COOKIES/Indifferent No, I did not buy a season pass No, But I would not pay for gsl anyway
On September 29 2011 10:23 KoTakUEurO wrote: i still bought it, to me TvT is the most diverse, beautiful matchup in the game, and never get tired of it. every match is so strategic... but i guess all the BW players and spectators are used to this kind of game, while the newer players aren't too used to it yet. trust me, its really great once you get past the length and some of the more uneventful parts of the game.
I feel the same way. TvT reminds me of the "dance" of armies in BW.
While TvT is obviously the most exciting and dynamic mirror, there is simply too much of it at the highest levels.
GomTvT cannot be blamed though - this has to do directly with the state of balance in this game. I think its unfortunate that GOM is going to be punished as a result of actions (or lack thereof) by Blizzard.
I would love to see something like PvZ in the gsl final. I think watching TvT and watching the gsl level of TvT is a lot different of a story. Take for example the last one. TOP vs IMMvp to the naked eye TOP had won then MVP did a hellion run by and won the game. Things like this are what keep me interested not so much the match-ups.
On September 29 2011 15:12 T0fuuu wrote: Why are these polls always so polarising?
It is it that hard to have something like
Did racial diversity affect your decision to buy a season pass to gsl october?
Yes, but I bought it anyways Yes, I did not buy a season pass COOKIES/Indifferent No, I did not buy a season pass No, But I would not pay for gsl anyway
yeah exactly you might as well just make a poll with 1 option, being are you sick of Terran dominance in GSL for all the OP's poll is worth.
I seriously considered NOT buying a ticket this season, but I did, after all. It's depressing to watch almost every toss get their ass handed to them by Terrans, although some do deserve to lose as they were outplayed. I just wanted to watch what was left of the Protoss players, and I do like a good ZvX as well. There are still a few Protoss in Code A as well. Generally I will always buy a ticket because it's only 10 bucks for almost a months worth of entertainment and I'm supporting Esports by doing so. Seems like a win/win to me. I really wish something would change soon though in regards to the PvT matchup, but we need to realize it's not GOM's fault Terrans are dominating. We shouldn't punish them for it.
I didn't get a ticket this season, but since the patch I've stayed up and watched a few of the games. GSTL as well. I think the most recent patch is a start in the right direction. I think we have a lot of strong non terrans coming up from Code A as well this season. Hopefully some of them will make it up to code S. Kind of sucks about some of the people in the up and downs. + Show Spoiler +
Polt and Top deserve Code S. They aren't some of the Terrans who got there riding the 1/1/1 or favored matchups due to being Terran.
It's a shame this is coming along late enough for so many toss and zergs to fall. There's always hope that everything will work out, though.
I still don't understand why the last place in group play doesn't just get demoted to Code A and the 3rd place goes to the up and down, that way there will be alot more code a players getting into code s and more code s players dropping out of code s.
The problem is not so much the amount of terrans in GSL (28 out of 64) but the amount of terrans in Code S and part of the problem is that it is so ridiculously hard to drop out of code s, so no matter how much the code s terrans lose their chances are very high that they will still be in code s next season.
I definitely think last place should drop out of code s and 3rd place should go to the up and down matches.
It that already were the case 4 terran , 3 protoss and 1 zerg would drop out of code s this season.
And 2 terran, 3 protoss and 3 zerg would get into code s.
and we would have
6 code s terrans, 1 code s protoss and 1 code s zerg in the up and downs and 3 code a terrans, 4 code a zergs and 1 code a protoss in the up and downs
in a best case scenario 10 terrans could drop out of code s (4 would for sure) and only a minimum of 2 would get up to code s, so in a best case scenario the number of terrans, just after this season could already be reduced to 12.
the way it is now we only have 4 code s terrans in the up and downs and 2 code a terrans. so even if all of them fail to qualify we would still have 16 terrans in code s and that is already the very best case scenario. if 4 of them fall out and 2 of them make it in we still have 18 terrans in code s, if all of them make it in we have 22 terrans in code s, whereas with the first system there would definitely be less terrans after this season.
I enjoy all matchups to some extent but protoss is the race i want to see most, so when there's no protoss games ever i do get kinda tired of it and tend to watch a lot less.
On September 29 2011 15:57 doko100 wrote: I still don't understand why the last place in group play doesn't just get demoted to Code A and the 3rd place goes to the up and down, that way there will be alot more code a players getting into code s and more code s players dropping out of code s.
because you only need to loose 2 bo1s and you are 4th place. gsl spoiler from yesterday: + Show Spoiler +
oGsTOP is clearly one of the best players in the GSL but he had a bad day yesterday. so it would be really unfair for players like him to immediately get demoted.
the only way it would be some kind of fair it they removed the current group system and made all matches bo3
On September 29 2011 06:42 MrCon wrote: In fact, if you look by days, there wasn't so much TvT this season. The first code S day was the most painful, with 7 terrans in 2 groups, but after that it was quite ok. (which is normal as 35% of the terran played in 25% of days)
We had in GSL October : 19 TvT 3 ZvZ 1 PvP 19 TvP 22 TvZ 33 ZvP
That's a lot of TvT in the mirror match group, but in the whole it's like 20% TvT overall, one game of five, it's not unbearable. Before the season started I was afraid of TvT saturation, but in fact I didn't really felt it.
Unrelated : this month was played the 2000th GSL game
If this stat is true, then it really isn't the amount of TvT that people dislike.
Having watched Tastosis for a while makes me wanna mute other casters out there. Tastosis could be casting NA bronze league and I would still buy a ticket.
On September 29 2011 15:41 demonik187 wrote: I seriously considered NOT buying a ticket this season, but I did, after all. It's depressing to watch almost every toss get their ass handed to them by Terrans, although some do deserve to lose as they were outplayed. I just wanted to watch what was left of the Protoss players, and I do like a good ZvX as well. There are still a few Protoss in Code A as well. Generally I will always buy a ticket because it's only 10 bucks for almost a months worth of entertainment and I'm supporting Esports by doing so. Seems like a win/win to me. I really wish something would change soon though in regards to the PvT matchup, but we need to realize it's not GOM's fault Terrans are dominating. We shouldn't punish them for it.
What the hell goes through a persons mind, to interpret not giving a company which hosts an unentertaining tournament business, as punishment for game balance? I dont find the GSL entertaining due to all the TVT's, period. Thats not punishment, its merely response to a fact.
The round of 16 has 5 out of 8 being Zerg matches, so I'm extremely happy. I basically buy GSL tickets no matter what, anyway. It's the best tournament with the highest level of play so I don't see any reason not to buy it.
On September 29 2011 06:42 MrCon wrote: In fact, if you look by days, there wasn't so much TvT this season. The first code S day was the most painful, with 7 terrans in 2 groups, but after that it was quite ok. (which is normal as 35% of the terran played in 25% of days)
We had in GSL October : 19 TvT 3 ZvZ 1 PvP 19 TvP 22 TvZ 33 ZvP
That's a lot of TvT in the mirror match group, but in the whole it's like 20% TvT overall, one game of five, it's not unbearable. Before the season started I was afraid of TvT saturation, but in fact I didn't really felt it.
Unrelated : this month was played the 2000th GSL game
If this stat is true, then it really isn't the amount of TvT that people dislike.
It's the amount of T.
it's true unfortunately. the amount of terran haters is outrageous.
I didn't buy this season as starting to get tired from watching too much SC2. I'm watching less and less each season so no point wasting money on it. The amount of terrans in it and lack of players I care about was also a factor in that decision.
On September 29 2011 15:57 doko100 wrote: I still don't understand why the last place in group play doesn't just get demoted to Code A and the 3rd place goes to the up and down, that way there will be alot more code a players getting into code s and more code s players dropping out of code s.
because you only need to loose 2 bo1s and you are 4th place. gsl spoiler from yesterday: + Show Spoiler +
oGsTOP is clearly one of the best players in the GSL but he had a bad day yesterday. so it would be really unfair for players like him to immediately get demoted.
the only way it would be some kind of fair it they removed the current group system and made all matches bo3
No offence, but what you just said was really stupid.
I hope you realize that losing a Bo3 is essentially the same thing as losing two Bo1. You lose 2 games either way, a Bo1 is even more forgiving because if you win just 1 game, you are sure to not place last, if you however win 1 game in a Bo3 and lose the other 2, you would still go down. So what you essentially just said was :" well losing two bo1 is unfair, so how about we just make 1 bo3... it's the same amount of losses and you can even go down with a win... but hey that sounds fair."
think before you post please, again no offence but it's not fun to have an argument when someone comes up with an idea that makes things even worse/more unfair and calls someone else out for having an "unfair idea"
On September 29 2011 15:57 doko100 wrote: I still don't understand why the last place in group play doesn't just get demoted to Code A and the 3rd place goes to the up and down, that way there will be alot more code a players getting into code s and more code s players dropping out of code s.
because you only need to loose 2 bo1s and you are 4th place. gsl spoiler from yesterday: + Show Spoiler +
oGsTOP is clearly one of the best players in the GSL but he had a bad day yesterday. so it would be really unfair for players like him to immediately get demoted.
the only way it would be some kind of fair it they removed the current group system and made all matches bo3
No offence, but what you just said was really stupid.
I hope you realize that losing a Bo3 is essentially the same thing as losing two Bo1. You lose 2 games either way, a Bo1 is even more forgiving because if you win just 1 game, you are sure to not place last, if you however win 1 game in a Bo3 and lose the other 2, you would still go down. So what you essentially just said was :" well losing two bo1 is unfair, so how about we just make 1 bo3... it's the same amount of losses and you can even go down with a win... but hey that sounds fair."
think before you post please, again no offence but it's not fun to have an argument when someone comes up with an idea that makes things even worse/more unfair and calls someone else out for having an "unfair idea"
On September 29 2011 15:57 doko100 wrote: I still don't understand why the last place in group play doesn't just get demoted to Code A and the 3rd place goes to the up and down, that way there will be alot more code a players getting into code s and more code s players dropping out of code s.
because you only need to loose 2 bo1s and you are 4th place. gsl spoiler from yesterday: + Show Spoiler +
oGsTOP is clearly one of the best players in the GSL but he had a bad day yesterday. so it would be really unfair for players like him to immediately get demoted.
the only way it would be some kind of fair it they removed the current group system and made all matches bo3
No offence, but what you just said was really stupid.
I hope you realize that losing a Bo3 is essentially the same thing as losing two Bo1. You lose 2 games either way, a Bo1 is even more forgiving because if you win just 1 game, you are sure to not place last, if you however win 1 game in a Bo3 and lose the other 2, you would still go down. So what you essentially just said was :" well losing two bo1 is unfair, so how about we just make 1 bo3... it's the same amount of losses and you can even go down with a win... but hey that sounds fair."
think before you post please, again no offence but it's not fun to have an argument when someone comes up with an idea that makes things even worse/more unfair and calls someone else out for having an "unfair idea"
Wow, you couldn't be more wrong lol Preparing for 1 opponent <> preparing for 3, of which you might not even play all of them Preparing for 3 specific maps <> preparing for 1 map and potentially 2 more you're unsure of A best of 3 <> group stages, by any stretch of the imagination
The idea of demotion without up/down is also ridiculous for such a volatile game. Oh look, I paired up against Nestea and Mvp in a group, I'm going to code A because I can't beat the two best players in the world? Also just because players got far in code A, doesn't mean they're good enough for code S so giving them that spot without making them play against code S players to earn it would be stupid as well.
Also just because you say "no offence" doesn't mean your post isn't trying to offend the other person lol
On September 29 2011 15:57 doko100 wrote: I still don't understand why the last place in group play doesn't just get demoted to Code A and the 3rd place goes to the up and down, that way there will be alot more code a players getting into code s and more code s players dropping out of code s.
because you only need to loose 2 bo1s and you are 4th place. gsl spoiler from yesterday: + Show Spoiler +
oGsTOP is clearly one of the best players in the GSL but he had a bad day yesterday. so it would be really unfair for players like him to immediately get demoted.
the only way it would be some kind of fair it they removed the current group system and made all matches bo3
No offence, but what you just said was really stupid.
I hope you realize that losing a Bo3 is essentially the same thing as losing two Bo1. You lose 2 games either way, a Bo1 is even more forgiving because if you win just 1 game, you are sure to not place last, if you however win 1 game in a Bo3 and lose the other 2, you would still go down. So what you essentially just said was :" well losing two bo1 is unfair, so how about we just make 1 bo3... it's the same amount of losses and you can even go down with a win... but hey that sounds fair."
think before you post please, again no offence but it's not fun to have an argument when someone comes up with an idea that makes things even worse/more unfair and calls someone else out for having an "unfair idea"
Wow, you couldn't be more wrong lol Preparing for 1 opponent <> preparing for 3, of which you might not even play all of them Preparing for 3 specific maps <> preparing for 1 map and potentially 2 more you're unsure of A best of 3 <> group stages, by any stretch of the imagination
The idea of demotion without up/down is also ridiculous for such a volatile game. Oh look, I paired up against Nestea and Mvp in a group, I'm going to code A because I can't beat the two best players in the world? Also just because players got far in code A, doesn't mean they're good enough for code S so giving them that spot without making them play against code S players to earn it would be stupid as well.
Also just because you say "no offence" doesn't mean your post isn't trying to offend the other person lol
Your argument is very, very flawed.
What you basically just said was "no demotion without up/down matches, because you might get matched up with nestea and mvp in one group", completely ignoring the fact that in a bo3 format you could be even more unlucky, you could get matched up with nestea or mvp, in that format you don't even have the chance to play against another player that might have less skill than your bo3 opponent.
Yes in a group format there is a slight chance that you get into a group of death, with players like bomber, drg, nestea etc... but in a bo3 format it's even worse, because in a bo3 format it could very well happen that Mvp and Nestea get matched up first round and THAT is alot worse because that ultimately means that one of them can't advance, whereas in a group format both top player have the chance to advance to the ro16.
I think what the best of 3 would help to do more is to insure that genuinely great players like Nestea or Losira or MC aren't just cheesed out of the tournament.
On September 29 2011 20:41 BinxyBrown wrote: I think what the best of 3 would help to do more is to insure that genuinely great players like Nestea or Losira or MC aren't just cheesed out of the tournament.
It absolutely wouldn't, who's to say that they won't get matched with a cheeser? And the chances of two top players eliminating eachother first round would actually drastically increase in a Bo3 format.
Nope, great games no matter the lineup, plus the RO16 is only 3/8 TvT, plenty of TvZ and it's filled with plenty of great players on both ends of the bracket.
GSL final curse is going to be broken this time i can feel it.
I am disappointed with the racial diversity but this is actually the first GSL in a while I have bothered to watch and I am enjoying it. I might start buying season passes for the vods soon if my interest remains strong
There's tons of VODs for 10$ .. what's that ? 2-3 beers ? We ( at least I ) spend a lot more on stupid stuff without ever analyzing it .. and for that you get tens of hours of high class SC2 actions. I liked the Code A and most of Code S .. truth be told I've skipped some minutes from the lower class TvTs, but pleased overall . I'm only a bit disapointed Nestea and MVP will meet so early on , other than that, it's sure worth the money.
I like Terran and TvT is the most developed mirror matchup - it's the dot on the i for why I bought a GSL October ticket. ZvZ is finally getting there, with awesome games like LosirA vs DongRaeGu showing us how intense (as opposed to volatile) the matchup can be... PvP still is underdeveloped due to the constant state of 4Gate vs 4Gate, so I don't really mind seeing a lot of TvTs.
On September 29 2011 21:58 twiitar wrote: with awesome games like LosirA vs DongRaeGu showing us how intense (as opposed to volatile) the matchup can be...
I hope that will be awsome, not like Losira vs July which was .. kind of nooby
On September 29 2011 06:28 OldManZerg wrote: It's the reason I didn't buy it. I play zerg and the biggest reason I watch GSL is to see what the best zergs are doing. There are a few still, but I'm just not going to pay that much money for so few games in which Code S zergs are playing. If zerg were to make it to the finals I might buy it afterwards so I could go back and watch all the games, but it didn't make any sense to buy it ahead of time when they could all get knocked out early.
top zergs in the world are going to be for sure playing against terran and you don't want to see what new strategy they have devised to win this season........
in general to the thread seems like people just want to try and cry terran op lol TvT is awesome , most fun match up to watch in mirror imo. can't afford a ticket though but I love sc2 and if I could buy gom tv tickets I would buy them there not just code s there is code a as well. Plus if you love starcraft 2 why would you care about more tvt than any other match up in one of the gsl code s seasons makes no sense.
Alot of people just want to cry in thread really. not true sc2 fans or esports fans. It's like saying your not going to watch nba finals if lakers are in it for the 100th time and your team not make it. but you want to call yourself a true nba fan.
I've bought the ticket and been enjoying Code A more than Code S this season.
I just found myself watching so much more from Code A and im actually enjoying it quite a lot. Dont get me wrong, i enjoy Code S but seems like theres more action and thrills going on Code A, at least for me.
tvt is my favorite match-up because they can control space really well and it's more like chess but I don't buy it because imbalance from a spectators viewpoint is no fun to watch like a adult beating on a child or a HW beating on a LW I don't watch. Zerg and protoss have to play perfect to beat terran, terran not so much.
EPT
