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Is it okay to say extreme stuff over game? - Page 4

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BigBadBeaver
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada272 Posts
September 25 2011 08:11 GMT
#61
On September 25 2011 17:06 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2011 16:32 BigBadBeaver wrote:
No "pro" would say things as sensitive as "kill yourself" in a tournament setting. Most people are quite reasonable when there are people watching.


Idra?

What did he say? you've drawn my curiousity
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-25 08:12:25
September 25 2011 08:12 GMT
#62
On September 25 2011 17:09 Bonkerz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2011 17:06 Torte de Lini wrote:
On September 25 2011 17:05 Bonkerz wrote:
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote:
Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.

I truly hope so, every time something like this happens it hurts the scene.


How much does it hurt the scene?
In what way does it hurt the scene?
What are the long-term consequences for his actions?


Not saying you're wrong, but that line is slapped on too much shit. Would love an elaboration to what you mean by "hurting the scene".

Yes, it hurts the "scene", but to what extent and how so? Do the interested parties intentionally look for these particular instances of lapsed judgement so they can find a reason to "avoid" a potential new market?

I pm'd you about
But basically from a standpoint of a spectator/sponsor/investor OUTSIDE of our community/gaming scene how can we be taken seriously with stuff like this being said between players...


The same way any other organization, sport, competition, event does it.
By focusing on the better side of things. Only those who go looking for issues usually find these issues, in which case they're probably inclined not to join in on this "scene".

If this issue you're naming was so huge, immediate and a dire issue, then yes, this conversation would feel so much more relevant and potentially revolutionary.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
RuMCaKe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States559 Posts
September 25 2011 08:13 GMT
#63
I have spoken with Spades, and as the manager of ItsGoSu, and a friend of RGN, and Spades as well. I know this is just a misunderstanding. Tempers flared, some wrong things were said, it happens. No hard feelings on our end, and I hope that people can let it go. People make mistakes, I know I sure do, and I am sure everyone else here does as well. No hard feelings!

Spades, lets have a beer at Orlando
twitter.com/RuMCaKeS
sandg
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia123 Posts
September 25 2011 08:14 GMT
#64
Go play an multiplayer fps online for a while then come back and see if you still feel the same way.
The mind is capable of anything, because everything is in it.
karlmengsk
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada230 Posts
September 25 2011 08:14 GMT
#65
People have a tendency to be human, yeah..Anyways glad Spades manned up to his actions, gotta remember its just a game at some point.
That puppy is killing e-sports
Bonkerz
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States831 Posts
September 25 2011 08:14 GMT
#66
On September 25 2011 17:12 Torte de Lini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2011 17:09 Bonkerz wrote:
On September 25 2011 17:06 Torte de Lini wrote:
On September 25 2011 17:05 Bonkerz wrote:
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote:
Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.

I truly hope so, every time something like this happens it hurts the scene.


How much does it hurt the scene?
In what way does it hurt the scene?
What are the long-term consequences for his actions?


Not saying you're wrong, but that line is slapped on too much shit. Would love an elaboration to what you mean by "hurting the scene".

Yes, it hurts the "scene", but to what extent and how so? Do the interested parties intentionally look for these particular instances of lapsed judgement so they can find a reason to "avoid" a potential new market?

I pm'd you about
But basically from a standpoint of a spectator/sponsor/investor OUTSIDE of our community/gaming scene how can we be taken seriously with stuff like this being said between players...


The same way any other organization, sport, competition, event does it.
By focusing on the better side of things. Only those who go looking for issues usually find these issues, in which case they're probably inclined not to join in on this "scene".

If this issue you're naming was so huge, immediate and a dire issue, then yes, this conversation would feel so much more relevant and potentially revolutionary.

Why would you not try to prevent something like this rather than say lets wait till it happens? The best defense a good offense we need to realize that there is a big chance that more stuff like this will happen, but players need to know that there will be repercussions.... Which is why i still feel that the best way to deal with this would be an organization between all big tournaments.
High masters terran streaming in 720p 60 FPS with commentary and analysis after every game twitch.tv/bonkerz1
Spicy_Curry
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States10573 Posts
September 25 2011 08:15 GMT
#67
Im pretty sure whitera's philosophy can be applied to this "no gg, no skill"
High Risk Low Reward
darkscream
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2310 Posts
September 25 2011 08:16 GMT
#68
1) freedom of speech - yes, i can say whatever i want as long as it is not declaration of intent to harm

2) morality - eh, debatable. Obviously to insult someone is to try and hurt them with words. Definitely not good but.. not bad enough to impose your will on them (to prevent them from doing it), IMO.

3) thickness of skin - It's the internet, people are assholes. People will say horrible things, it is their right. Be a man and tough it out. What difference is it if some kid calls you a faggot in the playground or in the cafeteria, or over the internet? The answer is that there is no difference.


Basically, sorry you got shit talked but i don't think this kind of discussion is in the best interest of a free and open internet. And, a free and open internet is one of the few things left in the world worth protecting with our lives. Kind of a tangent, but if you start telling people what they can and cannot say, you're making a more grave moral wrong than they would be for saying bad things.

Should it be allowed in Tournaments? I like it personally, but I can understand if sponsors wouldn't want that sort of thing going on.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-25 08:18:39
September 25 2011 08:17 GMT
#69
On September 25 2011 17:14 Bonkerz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2011 17:12 Torte de Lini wrote:
On September 25 2011 17:09 Bonkerz wrote:
On September 25 2011 17:06 Torte de Lini wrote:
On September 25 2011 17:05 Bonkerz wrote:
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote:
Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.

I truly hope so, every time something like this happens it hurts the scene.


How much does it hurt the scene?
In what way does it hurt the scene?
What are the long-term consequences for his actions?


Not saying you're wrong, but that line is slapped on too much shit. Would love an elaboration to what you mean by "hurting the scene".

Yes, it hurts the "scene", but to what extent and how so? Do the interested parties intentionally look for these particular instances of lapsed judgement so they can find a reason to "avoid" a potential new market?

I pm'd you about
But basically from a standpoint of a spectator/sponsor/investor OUTSIDE of our community/gaming scene how can we be taken seriously with stuff like this being said between players...


The same way any other organization, sport, competition, event does it.
By focusing on the better side of things. Only those who go looking for issues usually find these issues, in which case they're probably inclined not to join in on this "scene".

If this issue you're naming was so huge, immediate and a dire issue, then yes, this conversation would feel so much more relevant and potentially revolutionary.

Why would you not try to prevent something like this rather than say lets wait till it happens? The best defense a good offense we need to realize that there is a big chance that more stuff like this will happen, but players need to know that there will be repercussions.... Which is why i still feel that the best way to deal with this would be an organization between all big tournaments.


Prevent what? You can't prevent it. I just said that. You can only deter it or punish those who do it.
I'm just repeating myself here. I said there are disciplinary actions from tournament organizers and teams due to the pressures of their sponsors?

So what are you saying? I said this last time and you ignored me.
I said that the issue was minor and had rare exceptions and you ignored it.
I said that you had one anecdotal issue with Jedigamer in a private conversation and you ignored it.
I said Spades was an exception as well and look, he came back, apologized and the other team accepts it and realizes that these are just rarities of lapsed judgement. You ignored that too.

YOU CAN'T PREVENT PEOPLE FROM EXPRESSING THEMSELVES, YOU CAN ONLY PUNISH OR DETER IT. The higher the punishment, the more people will restrain themselves, but there are already so few forms or events of major life-threatening instances. I can't even think of one instance at a live event where someone actually not only threatened the other player, but follow-up on it.

And it's deterred by the community's high standards and probably topics like this that scrutinize the smallest and one-time issues that arise on a very rare occasion.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Bonkerz
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States831 Posts
September 25 2011 08:18 GMT
#70
On September 25 2011 17:16 darkscream wrote:
1) freedom of speech - yes, i can say whatever i want as long as it is not declaration of intent to harm

2) morality - eh, debatable. Obviously to insult someone is to try and hurt them with words. Definitely not good but.. not bad enough to impose your will on them (to prevent them from doing it), IMO.

3) thickness of skin - It's the internet, people are assholes. People will say horrible things, it is their right. Be a man and tough it out. What difference is it if some kid calls you a faggot in the playground or in the cafeteria, or over the internet? The answer is that there is no difference.


Basically, sorry you got shit talked but i don't think this kind of discussion is in the best interest of a free and open internet. And, a free and open internet is one of the few things left in the world worth protecting with our lives. Kind of a tangent, but if you start telling people what they can and cannot say, you're making a more grave moral wrong than they would be for saying bad things.

Should it be allowed in Tournaments? I like it personally, but I can understand if sponsors wouldn't want that sort of thing going on.

This argument has shifted a ton, a mod should probably rename the thread but basically from a scene enthusiast wouldn't you agree that this hurts it? How can we be taken seriously, you should probably read the last 3 pages. :-)
High masters terran streaming in 720p 60 FPS with commentary and analysis after every game twitch.tv/bonkerz1
Russano
Profile Joined November 2010
United States434 Posts
September 25 2011 08:18 GMT
#71
It's the internet, if this is problamatic for you, you better get used to it instead of being an insecure child who needs approval from random internet trolls.

It's your fault if you let random people bother you.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-25 08:19:52
September 25 2011 08:19 GMT
#72
On September 25 2011 17:18 Bonkerz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2011 17:16 darkscream wrote:
1) freedom of speech - yes, i can say whatever i want as long as it is not declaration of intent to harm

2) morality - eh, debatable. Obviously to insult someone is to try and hurt them with words. Definitely not good but.. not bad enough to impose your will on them (to prevent them from doing it), IMO.

3) thickness of skin - It's the internet, people are assholes. People will say horrible things, it is their right. Be a man and tough it out. What difference is it if some kid calls you a faggot in the playground or in the cafeteria, or over the internet? The answer is that there is no difference.


Basically, sorry you got shit talked but i don't think this kind of discussion is in the best interest of a free and open internet. And, a free and open internet is one of the few things left in the world worth protecting with our lives. Kind of a tangent, but if you start telling people what they can and cannot say, you're making a more grave moral wrong than they would be for saying bad things.

Should it be allowed in Tournaments? I like it personally, but I can understand if sponsors wouldn't want that sort of thing going on.

This argument has shifted a ton, a mod should probably rename the thread but basically from a scene enthusiast wouldn't you agree that this hurts it? How can we be taken seriously, you should probably read the last 3 pages. :-)



Lol, no it didn't. It's the same as before .__.
I just named how we could be taken seriously, why do you repeat the same questions?

I liked you in the CraftCup a lot, but this topic really has me scratching my head.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
VPCursed
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
1044 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-25 08:23:41
September 25 2011 08:20 GMT
#73
On September 25 2011 16:20 Bonkerz wrote:
Here we go spades being racist and physical threat how can be taken seriously with this stuff going on? http://imgur.com/TQKVz
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote:
Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.


Quote from Its Gosu Manager
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2011 17:13 RuMCaKe wrote:
I have spoken with Spades, and as the manager of ItsGoSu, and a friend of RGN, and Spades as well. I know this is just a misunderstanding. Tempers flared, some wrong things were said, it happens. No hard feelings on our end, and I hope that people can let it go. People make mistakes, I know I sure do, and I am sure everyone else here does as well. No hard feelings!

Spades, lets have a beer at Orlando





What triggered this thread was that a semi pro/ high level terran on NA ladder on skype told me i should go kill myself which lead me to think about the question. The fact that we see pro players threatening each other when we as a community are still trying to gain legitimacy outside of the gaming world.

For our game what we love,to go to the next level, do we need people to mature. In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this because it is a THREAT, and over the interenet it is no different, I doubt that anybody would come up to my face and tell me to kill myself.

Yeah sorry if this has been discussed but i feel it's worth a thread, What do you guys think?





Bonkerz

lol... Can only imagine a world when police took every e-threat serious.
zeOllie
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Australia486 Posts
September 25 2011 08:23 GMT
#74
You know you can report these players on b.net as a real life threat.

honestly, i think spades should get some sort of punishment for this. you don't make these threats and then 'forget about it'. shit like this shouldn't be acceptable.
When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love.
Synapze
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada563 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-25 08:27:49
September 25 2011 08:24 GMT
#75
On September 25 2011 17:18 Russano wrote:
It's the internet, if this is problamatic for you, you better get used to it instead of being an insecure child who needs approval from random internet trolls.

It's your fault if you let random people bother you.


Lol Russano, for anyone who doesnt know.. is the most BM toss (next to combatex maybe?)
on NA.

- Spades was obviously provoked, Hwangsin was being an asshole. Spades knew in real life that hwangsin wouldn't talk like that to his face, so he made a point of reminding him that. Everyone is aware tempers flare in sc2, especially after a tough loss.

Hwangsin should be apologizing as well, for antagonizing and disrespecting Spades as a player.
Yuri Victoria LMJ ~♥
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
September 25 2011 08:24 GMT
#76
On September 25 2011 17:23 zeOllie wrote:
You know you can report these players on b.net as a real life threat.

honestly, i think spades should get some sort of punishment for this. you don't make these threats and then 'forget about it'. shit like this shouldn't be acceptable.


It happened on skype, which he can do as well.
Agreed to be honest.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
itkovian
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1763 Posts
September 25 2011 08:26 GMT
#77
Everyone gets rage on the ladder, though I've yet had someone threaten to kill me lol. Usually I take rage as a sign that I played a really good game and try and leave it at that. Its almost like a subtle compliment.

But obviously, to grow a respectable reputation the gaming community has to step up a bit and cool down the aggressive tones.
=)=
Deleted User 183001
Profile Joined May 2011
2939 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-25 08:31:16
September 25 2011 08:30 GMT
#78
Seeing as I play on Xbox Live (where the BM makes SC2 players look like fine high-class gentlemen) besides PC, BM really doesn't mean much to me as long as it's not in competitive, formal, professional play.

As long as Spades behaves at MLG, then I don't care if he's in a pissy mood on the ladder. Sure, it's a bit idiotic to be seriously insulting people in any scenario, but it's not the end of the world that he raged on SC2.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
September 25 2011 08:31 GMT
#79
I think the racist slur was a bit too far. That shouldn't be in his repertoire at all.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Synapze
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada563 Posts
September 25 2011 08:32 GMT
#80
On September 25 2011 17:30 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
Seeing as I play on Xbox Live (where the BM makes SC2 players look like fine high-class gentlemen) besides PC, BM really doesn't mean much to me as long as it's not in competitive, formal, professional play.

As long as Spades behaves at MLG, then I don't care if he's in a pissy mood on the ladder. Sure, it's a bit idiotic to be seriously insulting people in any scenario, but it's not the end of the world that he raged on SC2.


I agree with this completely on the ladder part, however.. I think this was for a tournament. In tournaments (small or large) professional players should conduct themselves as such. Both hwangsin and spades were at fault.
Yuri Victoria LMJ ~♥
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