Here we go spades being racist and physical threat how can be taken seriously with this stuff going on? http://imgur.com/TQKVz
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote: Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.
Quote from Its Gosu Manager
On September 25 2011 17:13 RuMCaKe wrote: I have spoken with Spades, and as the manager of ItsGoSu, and a friend of RGN, and Spades as well. I know this is just a misunderstanding. Tempers flared, some wrong things were said, it happens. No hard feelings on our end, and I hope that people can let it go. People make mistakes, I know I sure do, and I am sure everyone else here does as well. No hard feelings!
Spades, lets have a beer at Orlando
For our game what we love,to go to the next level, do we need people to mature. In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this because it is a THREAT, and over the interenet it is no different, I doubt that anybody would come up to my face and tell me to kill myself.
Yeah sorry if this has been discussed but i feel it's worth a thread, What do you guys think?
EDIT: This isn't about me or jedigamer this is about the PRO scene and that professional players even think for a SECOND that it is okay to say stuff like this in PUBLIC. From an outside investor/sponsor what would make you think our community is professional
nah but is behavoir like this acceptable from people who want to be proffesional players / profession players, how can we be taken seriously as a community if we have leaders in the scene talking like this (idra of course not jedi/syndicate)
The internet can be ridiculous like that. I've been told to kill myself multiple times on the ladder. I think playing terran has somethin to do with it. Damn racists..
And this guy you're talking to seems to have had issues before...
On September 25 2011 16:26 BigBadBeaver wrote: The internet can be ridiculous like that. I've been told to kill myself multiple times on the ladder. I think playing terran has somethin to do with it. Damn racists..
And this guy you're talking to seems to have had issues before...
Ladder is one thing, and yes the guy im talking to has a ton of issues, but from more pro players who use language like this, should tournaments allow it? Personally I feel it should be a fine/dq if you use shit like that, it really needs to be cut down...
It's the internet. If you're upset how people treat you on the internet, find something else to do. You're in high school. Your life will get better, I can almost guarantee it.
Just ignore him. You already know he has terrible manners, and he'll never even attempt to fix it. I honestly think he has some mental issues at this point looking at his past actions, but nothing you can do about it.
So some random idiot/troll goes out of his way to insult you. Welcome to the internet, your best bet is to just ignore him and not let him get you worked up. He's just a pathetic life form wasting your time.
On September 25 2011 16:28 pastrami wrote: It's the internet. If you're upset how people treat you on the internet, find something else to do. You're in high school. Your life will get better, I can almost guarantee it.
Hmm i guess i'm looking more on the pro scene, not really what happened to me.. This dude just kinda brought it to my mind.
Idk I troll ladder a lot and make people rage on purpose, you should see my word cloud. It's just how I play. Maybe that's how he does it too ( I remember once I was on a smurf bronze account and beat jedigamer, he was raging the entire game). Don't take it seriously and it will be fine.
On September 25 2011 16:30 Soulish wrote: Idk I troll ladder a lot and make people rage on purpose, you should see my word cloud. It's just how I play. Maybe that's how he does it too ( I remember once I was on a smurf bronze account and beat jedigamer, he was raging the entire game). Don't take it seriously and it will be fine.
Telling somebody to kill themselves as a grown man/women isn't okay in my book no matter what the circumstances..
THE OP EDITED HIS TOPIC BECAUSE HIS ORIGINAL EXAMPLE AND ARGUMENT WASN'T VERY REPUTABLE
This is Jedigamer, he compensates for his insecurity by putting a front of obnoxious attacks towards other people (regardless if it is deemed or not).
He said himself he'd "turn over a new leaf", but shortly after, ruined it.
Don't give him more attention and don't use him as an example for anything relative or related. He gets angry and exerts it onto other people. It's not unusual for a lot of angry folks who take the game beyond serious or get too emotionally-tied to it.
Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? Especially a GROWN MAN to a highschooler (me) like for our game
Point is people are assholes, no matter the age. The sooner you realize this and try not to let it bother you, the sooner you are happier. Yes, there is almost always a better action that someone could take. The fact is that you can be as rude as you want to be on the internet with relative anonymity, so don't expect anyone of any purported age to be respectful whatsoever.
No "pro" would say things as sensitive as "kill yourself" in a tournament setting. Most people are quite reasonable when there are people watching.
And if it were to happen I have confidence that the tournament will deal with it accordingly. If not, the masses will cause an uproar and bring us the drama we all know and love on TL.
On September 25 2011 16:32 Torte de Lini wrote: This is Jedigamer, he compensates for his insecurity by putting a front of obnoxious attacks towards other people (regardless if it is deemed or not).
He said himself he'd "turn over a new leaf", but shortly after, ruined it.
Don't give him more attention and don't use him as an example for anything relative or related.
On September 25 2011 16:32 BigBadBeaver wrote: No "pro" would say things as sensitive as "kill yourself" in a tournament setting. Most people are quite reasonable when there are people watching.
And if it were to happen I have confidence that the tournament will deal with it accordingly. If not, the masses will cause an uproar and bring us the drama we all know and love on TL.
On September 25 2011 16:32 Torte de Lini wrote: This is Jedigamer, he compensates for his insecurity by putting a front of obnoxious attacks towards other people (regardless if it is deemed or not).
He said himself he'd "turn over a new leaf", but shortly after, ruined it.
Don't give him more attention and don't use him as an example for anything relative or related.
Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? Especially a GROWN MAN to a highschooler (me) like for our game
Get off the soapbox.
read the edits...
You mean the next edit you just put in.
Which makes your case even less of a general issue or point. I still suggest to get off. There are disciplinary measures for people or expressions of anger like this.
You sound patronizing a bit to be honest. "How can we, the people, enjoy such games if there is a fear of others, potentially better or worst than us in skill, plague our subculture with these insults and... dare I say it: threats of life! How can we grow as a community, a growing bunch of gamers and determined professionals when we are constantly in social fear of being lashed out upon with threats we would never receive in person or in real life!
The grounds of professionalism are shaken! NEVER TO BE SAME AGAIN!"
Except nearly all organizations have a basis of measures to prevent this or deter it in addition: professionals are sponsored. They make the team look bad, poor publicity for the sponsors and eventually lose more opportunities in the future.
A pro-gamer example of this actually occurred this evening during the Playhem tournament when RGNSpades threatened to physically assault HwangSin at MLG and used racial slurs against him.
Guy has done plenty of stuff like this in the past. No big suprise just another ladder warrior who lost a bunch of games then decided that being annoying might get them somewhere.
Also as for your edit no. If somebody pulled stuff like this at a lan tournament they would get the hell beat out of them atleast i would hope so.
On September 25 2011 16:37 gobrin wrote: A pro-gamer example of this actually occurred this evening when RGNSpades threatened to physically assault HwangSin at MLG and used racial slurs against him.
On September 25 2011 16:32 Torte de Lini wrote: This is Jedigamer, he compensates for his insecurity by putting a front of obnoxious attacks towards other people (regardless if it is deemed or not).
He said himself he'd "turn over a new leaf", but shortly after, ruined it.
Don't give him more attention and don't use him as an example for anything relative or related.
Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? Especially a GROWN MAN to a highschooler (me) like for our game
Get off the soapbox.
read the edits...
You mean the next edit you just put in.
Which makes your case even less of a general issue or point. I still suggest to get off. There are disciplinary measures for people or expressions of anger like this.
You sound patronizing a bit to be honest. "How can we, the people, enjoy such games if there is a fear of others, potentially better or worst than us in skill, plague our subculture with these insults and... dare I say it: threats of life! How can we grow as a community, a growing bunch of gamers and determined professionals when we are constantly in social fear of being lashed out upon with threats we would never receive in person or in real life!
The grounds of professionalism are shaken! NEVER TO BE SAME AGAIN!"
Except nearly all organizations have a basis of measures to prevent this or deter it in addition: professionals are sponsored. They make the team look bad, poor publicity for the sponsors and eventually lose more opportunities in the future.
It's not the threat, but putting down an emotionally damaged person can literally cause people to kill themselves, being a person who has MATURED how can you still be acting like that no matter what the case, What if i was emotionally damaged and I ended up killing myself, and then again even sponsored players saying shit like this on ladder should get them like suspended from a tourny or some shit, We will never be taken seriously as long as we have people like this acting this way (pro players) ofc. And i will redirate, there isn't a professional athlete out there that can say stuff like this during their events or just anywhere, why should Starcraft 2 players?
Do I think something should be done about bm though?
No I don't.
In your country and in my country we have a little thing called the right to free speech.
Your bad mannered sc2 tutor has clearly abused his right to free speech, but that is his right to abuse as he wishes and there is no way to stop him from saying nasty things without threatening the free speech of the innocent.
If it's any consolation to you though, this guy's bm and inability to communicate like a civilized person will only work agaisnt him in time.
I mean come on, if someone tells someone to go kill themselves in MLG, do you honestly think they wouldn't get DQ'd? lol, if they didn't my mind would be BLOWN. -.-
EDIT : wow the ss of rgnspades is pretty ridiculous lol
On September 25 2011 16:37 gobrin wrote: A pro-gamer example of this actually occurred this evening when RGNSpades threatened to physically assault HwangSin at MLG and used racial slurs against him.
On September 25 2011 16:40 Selendis wrote: This is disgraceful.
Do I think something should be done about bm though?
No I don't.
In your country and in my country we have a little thing called the right to free speech.
Your bad mannered sc2 tutor has clearly abused his right to free speech, but that is his right to abuse as he wishes and there is no way to stop him from saying nasty things without threatening the free speech of the innocent.
If it's any consolation to you though, this guy's bm and inability to communicate like a civilized person will only work agaisnt him in time.
Freedom of speech doesn't harbor threats last time i checked :-) and BM is fine, but there are lines people shouldn't cross.
On September 25 2011 16:32 Torte de Lini wrote: This is Jedigamer, he compensates for his insecurity by putting a front of obnoxious attacks towards other people (regardless if it is deemed or not).
He said himself he'd "turn over a new leaf", but shortly after, ruined it.
Don't give him more attention and don't use him as an example for anything relative or related.
Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? Especially a GROWN MAN to a highschooler (me) like for our game
Get off the soapbox.
read the edits...
You mean the next edit you just put in.
Which makes your case even less of a general issue or point. I still suggest to get off. There are disciplinary measures for people or expressions of anger like this.
You sound patronizing a bit to be honest. "How can we, the people, enjoy such games if there is a fear of others, potentially better or worst than us in skill, plague our subculture with these insults and... dare I say it: threats of life! How can we grow as a community, a growing bunch of gamers and determined professionals when we are constantly in social fear of being lashed out upon with threats we would never receive in person or in real life!
The grounds of professionalism are shaken! NEVER TO BE SAME AGAIN!"
Except nearly all organizations have a basis of measures to prevent this or deter it in addition: professionals are sponsored. They make the team look bad, poor publicity for the sponsors and eventually lose more opportunities in the future.
It's not the threat, but putting down an emotionally damaged person can literally cause people to kill themselves, being a person who has MATURED how can you still be acting like that no matter what the case, What if i was emotionally damaged and I ended up killing myself, and then again even sponsored players saying shit like this on ladder should get them like suspended from a tourny or some shit, We will never be taken seriously as long as we have people like this acting this way (pro players) ofc. And i will redirate, there isn't a professional athlete out there that can say stuff like this during their events or just anywhere, why should Starcraft 2 players?
That is the risk of all things on the internet. About the emotionally-damaged person: that isn't even your original approach. Yours was, in addition, between a high-schooler and a grown man, but also: "Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? "
That's your question or debate topic.
There will always be outliers or exceptions of people who are of poor-manner. It is their nature and they aren't an example of the community nor of competitive gaming [which all have subcultures and levels or boundaries of bad manners or cussing].
What if you were emotionally damaged and you killed yourself? Would it be because of that sole instance of an unknown insulting you after losing a match? Unlikely, but a combination of multiple things.
I think you're just on the soapbox again to be honest, maybe I'm just tired of people always looking out for how to be exemplary so we can strive by scrutinizing the smallest shits that always happen in all sports (including professional ones).
On September 25 2011 16:37 gobrin wrote: A pro-gamer example of this actually occurred this evening when RGNSpades threatened to physically assault HwangSin at MLG and used racial slurs against him.
On September 25 2011 16:45 askTeivospy wrote: its like you've never been on the internet before OP :S thicken your skin up
holy shit read the post.
No, he's right. One instance and you're making a global generalization of all players in all instances under all circumstances for the view or need to be consider "professional" for the sport.
One instance = not a valid need to make a generalizing call for help or dire need to assert and scrutinize the matter! Especially when it's anecdotal. Why are you even talking to Jedigamer over Skype when you should be aware of his behavior? In addition, if I could read the chat, there is probably more to this story than we're let on.
If not, Jedigamer isn't a progamer, so your scenario or fear of one, is based on nothing but a stretch for now (minus the Spades thing, jesus wow).
On September 25 2011 16:32 Torte de Lini wrote: This is Jedigamer, he compensates for his insecurity by putting a front of obnoxious attacks towards other people (regardless if it is deemed or not).
He said himself he'd "turn over a new leaf", but shortly after, ruined it.
Don't give him more attention and don't use him as an example for anything relative or related.
Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? Especially a GROWN MAN to a highschooler (me) like for our game
Get off the soapbox.
read the edits...
You mean the next edit you just put in.
Which makes your case even less of a general issue or point. I still suggest to get off. There are disciplinary measures for people or expressions of anger like this.
Here i'll delete all the shit about me out of OP aight? You sound patronizing a bit to be honest. "How can we, the people, enjoy such games if there is a fear of others, potentially better or worst than us in skill, plague our subculture with these insults and... dare I say it: threats of life! How can we grow as a community, a growing bunch of gamers and determined professionals when we are constantly in social fear of being lashed out upon with threats we would never receive in person or in real life!
The grounds of professionalism are shaken! NEVER TO BE SAME AGAIN!"
Except nearly all organizations have a basis of measures to prevent this or deter it in addition: professionals are sponsored. They make the team look bad, poor publicity for the sponsors and eventually lose more opportunities in the future.
It's not the threat, but putting down an emotionally damaged person can literally cause people to kill themselves, being a person who has MATURED how can you still be acting like that no matter what the case, What if i was emotionally damaged and I ended up killing myself, and then again even sponsored players saying shit like this on ladder should get them like suspended from a tourny or some shit, We will never be taken seriously as long as we have people like this acting this way (pro players) ofc. And i will redirate, there isn't a professional athlete out there that can say stuff like this during their events or just anywhere, why should Starcraft 2 players?
That is the risk of all things on the internet. About the emotionally-damaged person: that isn't even your original approach. Yours was, in addition, between a high-schooler and a grown man, but also: "Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? "
That's your question or debate topic.
There will always be outliers or exceptions of people who are of poor-manner. It is their nature and they aren't an example of the community nor of competitive gaming [which all have subcultures and levels or boundaries of bad manners or cussing].
What if you were emotionally damaged and you killed yourself? Would it be because of that sole instance of an unknown insulting you after losing a match? Unlikely, but a combination of multiple things.
I think you're just on the soapbox again to be honest, maybe I'm just tired of people always looking out for how to be exemplary so we can strive by scrutinizing the smallest shits that always happen in all sports (including professional ones).
I'm not on a soapbox i really don't give a shit about jedigamer or what happened to me it's an example. And the spades thing just proves my point, he's a pro gamer, who is known, why isn't there a organization formed between tournaments to put a stop to stuff like this? I mean I guess SC2Con in korea tried right, but what about a formation of like IGN + MLG+ DH + NASL to stop idiotic shit like this?
On September 25 2011 16:37 gobrin wrote: A pro-gamer example of this actually occurred this evening when RGNSpades threatened to physically assault HwangSin at MLG and used racial slurs against him.
On September 25 2011 16:32 Torte de Lini wrote: This is Jedigamer, he compensates for his insecurity by putting a front of obnoxious attacks towards other people (regardless if it is deemed or not).
He said himself he'd "turn over a new leaf", but shortly after, ruined it.
Don't give him more attention and don't use him as an example for anything relative or related.
Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? Especially a GROWN MAN to a highschooler (me) like for our game
Get off the soapbox.
read the edits...
You mean the next edit you just put in.
Which makes your case even less of a general issue or point. I still suggest to get off. There are disciplinary measures for people or expressions of anger like this.
You sound patronizing a bit to be honest. "How can we, the people, enjoy such games if there is a fear of others, potentially better or worst than us in skill, plague our subculture with these insults and... dare I say it: threats of life! How can we grow as a community, a growing bunch of gamers and determined professionals when we are constantly in social fear of being lashed out upon with threats we would never receive in person or in real life!
The grounds of professionalism are shaken! NEVER TO BE SAME AGAIN!"
Except nearly all organizations have a basis of measures to prevent this or deter it in addition: professionals are sponsored. They make the team look bad, poor publicity for the sponsors and eventually lose more opportunities in the future.
It's not the threat, but putting down an emotionally damaged person can literally cause people to kill themselves, being a person who has MATURED how can you still be acting like that no matter what the case, What if i was emotionally damaged and I ended up killing myself, and then again even sponsored players saying shit like this on ladder should get them like suspended from a tourny or some shit, We will never be taken seriously as long as we have people like this acting this way (pro players) ofc. And i will redirate, there isn't a professional athlete out there that can say stuff like this during their events or just anywhere, why should Starcraft 2 players?
That is the risk of all things on the internet. About the emotionally-damaged person: that isn't even your original approach. Yours was, in addition, between a high-schooler and a grown man, but also: "Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? "
That's your question or debate topic.
There will always be outliers or exceptions of people who are of poor-manner. It is their nature and they aren't an example of the community nor of competitive gaming [which all have subcultures and levels or boundaries of bad manners or cussing].
What if you were emotionally damaged and you killed yourself? Would it be because of that sole instance of an unknown insulting you after losing a match? Unlikely, but a combination of multiple things.
I think you're just on the soapbox again to be honest, maybe I'm just tired of people always looking out for how to be exemplary so we can strive by scrutinizing the smallest shits that always happen in all sports (including professional ones).
I'm not on a soapbox i really don't give a shit about jedigamer or what happened to me it's an example. And the spades thing just proves my point, he's a pro gamer, who is known, why isn't there a organization formed between tournaments to put a stop to stuff like this? I mean I guess SC2Con in korea tried right, but what about a formation of like IGN + MLG+ DH + NASL to stop idiotic shit like this?
See above, your example is about a non progamer who you talked to on your own free-doing outside of B.Net and not even in-person and we don't know the context.
Big stretch you're making if we consider your second edit.
As someone said: wait for a topic to be made. Eventually social judgement will come and repercussions will ensue.
You can't stop people from expressing themselves, you can only try to deter it or punish them for it. Which I'm sure Spades will by his team under the pressure of frantic sponsors.
On September 25 2011 16:37 gobrin wrote: A pro-gamer example of this actually occurred this evening during the Playhem tournament when RGNSpades threatened to physically assault HwangSin at MLG and used racial slurs against him.
Have you ever been to an NBA, NHL, NFL game live? Have you ever sat close enough to actually here the players talk to each other?
OMG if you hear the shit professional athletes say to each other during a game (especially NHL in my experience) your mouth would either drop, or have the biggest grin.
Pro athletes shit talk. Pro athletes will shit talk realllllly badly. Refs usually don't give a fuck unless it looks like it will get into a physical altercation.
My opinion? Don't get your panties up in a bunch unless a true physical/life threat occurs. And I say this in the most respectful manner man.
On September 25 2011 16:51 Bayyne wrote: Have you ever been to an NBA, NHL, NFL game live? Have you ever sat close enough to actually here the players talk to each other?
OMG if you hear the shit professional athletes say to each other during a game (especially NHL in my experience) your mouth would either drop, or have the biggest grin.
Pro athletes shit talk. Pro athletes will shit talk realllllly badly. Refs usually don't give a fuck unless it looks like it will get into a physical altercation.
My opinion? Don't get your panties up in a bunch unless a true physical/life threat occurs. And I say this in the most respectful manner man.
But they don't do it publically, which is what these sc2 players are doing, And i seriously doubt they give death threats to each other. But your right, I just don't know
On September 25 2011 16:51 Bayyne wrote: Have you ever been to an NBA, NHL, NFL game live? Have you ever sat close enough to actually here the players talk to each other?
OMG if you hear the shit professional athletes say to each other during a game (especially NHL in my experience) your mouth would either drop, or have the biggest grin.
Pro athletes shit talk. Pro athletes will shit talk realllllly badly. Refs usually don't give a fuck unless it looks like it will get into a physical altercation.
My opinion? Don't get your panties up in a bunch unless a true physical/life threat occurs. And I say this in the most respectful manner man.
But they don't do it publically, which is what these sc2 players are doing, And i seriously doubt they give death threats to each other. But your right, I just don't know
Which sc2 players?
Jedigamer who did it in a private chat with you over skype? Spades, who will probably see social repercussions as others as well?
I don't see any death threats. I see Jedi telling you to kill yourself.
On September 25 2011 16:32 Torte de Lini wrote: This is Jedigamer, he compensates for his insecurity by putting a front of obnoxious attacks towards other people (regardless if it is deemed or not).
He said himself he'd "turn over a new leaf", but shortly after, ruined it.
Don't give him more attention and don't use him as an example for anything relative or related.
Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? Especially a GROWN MAN to a highschooler (me) like for our game
Get off the soapbox.
read the edits...
You mean the next edit you just put in.
Which makes your case even less of a general issue or point. I still suggest to get off. There are disciplinary measures for people or expressions of anger like this.
You sound patronizing a bit to be honest. "How can we, the people, enjoy such games if there is a fear of others, potentially better or worst than us in skill, plague our subculture with these insults and... dare I say it: threats of life! How can we grow as a community, a growing bunch of gamers and determined professionals when we are constantly in social fear of being lashed out upon with threats we would never receive in person or in real life!
The grounds of professionalism are shaken! NEVER TO BE SAME AGAIN!"
Except nearly all organizations have a basis of measures to prevent this or deter it in addition: professionals are sponsored. They make the team look bad, poor publicity for the sponsors and eventually lose more opportunities in the future.
It's not the threat, but putting down an emotionally damaged person can literally cause people to kill themselves, being a person who has MATURED how can you still be acting like that no matter what the case, What if i was emotionally damaged and I ended up killing myself, and then again even sponsored players saying shit like this on ladder should get them like suspended from a tourny or some shit, We will never be taken seriously as long as we have people like this acting this way (pro players) ofc. And i will redirate, there isn't a professional athlete out there that can say stuff like this during their events or just anywhere, why should Starcraft 2 players?
That is the risk of all things on the internet. About the emotionally-damaged person: that isn't even your original approach. Yours was, in addition, between a high-schooler and a grown man, but also: "Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? "
That's your question or debate topic.
There will always be outliers or exceptions of people who are of poor-manner. It is their nature and they aren't an example of the community nor of competitive gaming [which all have subcultures and levels or boundaries of bad manners or cussing].
What if you were emotionally damaged and you killed yourself? Would it be because of that sole instance of an unknown insulting you after losing a match? Unlikely, but a combination of multiple things.
I think you're just on the soapbox again to be honest, maybe I'm just tired of people always looking out for how to be exemplary so we can strive by scrutinizing the smallest shits that always happen in all sports (including professional ones).
I'm not on a soapbox i really don't give a shit about jedigamer or what happened to me it's an example. And the spades thing just proves my point, he's a pro gamer, who is known, why isn't there a organization formed between tournaments to put a stop to stuff like this? I mean I guess SC2Con in korea tried right, but what about a formation of like IGN + MLG+ DH + NASL to stop idiotic shit like this?
See above, your example is about a non progamer who you talked to on your own free-doing outside of B.Net and not even in-person and we don't know the context.
Big stretch you're making if we consider your second edit.
As someone said: wait for a topic to be made. Eventually social judgement will come and repercussions will ensue.
You can't stop people from expressing themselves, you can only try to deter it or punish them for it. Which I'm sure Spades will by his team under the pressure of frantic sponsors.
So what are you trying to say?
I guess what i'm getting at, is we can't leave it up to the teams to enforce the rules, we need a Constant rule book and rule keepers to ensure that everything is always fair. The teams can't be depended on to make their own decisions because it obviously isn't working.
On September 25 2011 16:51 Bayyne wrote: Have you ever been to an NBA, NHL, NFL game live? Have you ever sat close enough to actually here the players talk to each other?
OMG if you hear the shit professional athletes say to each other during a game (especially NHL in my experience) your mouth would either drop, or have the biggest grin.
Pro athletes shit talk. Pro athletes will shit talk realllllly badly. Refs usually don't give a fuck unless it looks like it will get into a physical altercation.
My opinion? Don't get your panties up in a bunch unless a true physical/life threat occurs. And I say this in the most respectful manner man.
But they don't do it publically, which is what these sc2 players are doing, And i seriously doubt they give death threats to each other. But your right, I just don't know
Not publicly? The players talk shit loud enough for the hundreds of people in the crowd fortunate enough to hear them (sitting close to the action). Cameras can catch their mouth movements as well.
The only thing bad about all of this is these sc2 players' images/rep might be diminished somewhat. But frankly, I don't think they even give a damn.
On September 25 2011 16:32 Torte de Lini wrote: This is Jedigamer, he compensates for his insecurity by putting a front of obnoxious attacks towards other people (regardless if it is deemed or not).
He said himself he'd "turn over a new leaf", but shortly after, ruined it.
Don't give him more attention and don't use him as an example for anything relative or related.
Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? Especially a GROWN MAN to a highschooler (me) like for our game
Get off the soapbox.
read the edits...
You mean the next edit you just put in.
Which makes your case even less of a general issue or point. I still suggest to get off. There are disciplinary measures for people or expressions of anger like this.
You sound patronizing a bit to be honest. "How can we, the people, enjoy such games if there is a fear of others, potentially better or worst than us in skill, plague our subculture with these insults and... dare I say it: threats of life! How can we grow as a community, a growing bunch of gamers and determined professionals when we are constantly in social fear of being lashed out upon with threats we would never receive in person or in real life!
The grounds of professionalism are shaken! NEVER TO BE SAME AGAIN!"
Except nearly all organizations have a basis of measures to prevent this or deter it in addition: professionals are sponsored. They make the team look bad, poor publicity for the sponsors and eventually lose more opportunities in the future.
It's not the threat, but putting down an emotionally damaged person can literally cause people to kill themselves, being a person who has MATURED how can you still be acting like that no matter what the case, What if i was emotionally damaged and I ended up killing myself, and then again even sponsored players saying shit like this on ladder should get them like suspended from a tourny or some shit, We will never be taken seriously as long as we have people like this acting this way (pro players) ofc. And i will redirate, there isn't a professional athlete out there that can say stuff like this during their events or just anywhere, why should Starcraft 2 players?
That is the risk of all things on the internet. About the emotionally-damaged person: that isn't even your original approach. Yours was, in addition, between a high-schooler and a grown man, but also: "Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? "
That's your question or debate topic.
There will always be outliers or exceptions of people who are of poor-manner. It is their nature and they aren't an example of the community nor of competitive gaming [which all have subcultures and levels or boundaries of bad manners or cussing].
What if you were emotionally damaged and you killed yourself? Would it be because of that sole instance of an unknown insulting you after losing a match? Unlikely, but a combination of multiple things.
I think you're just on the soapbox again to be honest, maybe I'm just tired of people always looking out for how to be exemplary so we can strive by scrutinizing the smallest shits that always happen in all sports (including professional ones).
I'm not on a soapbox i really don't give a shit about jedigamer or what happened to me it's an example. And the spades thing just proves my point, he's a pro gamer, who is known, why isn't there a organization formed between tournaments to put a stop to stuff like this? I mean I guess SC2Con in korea tried right, but what about a formation of like IGN + MLG+ DH + NASL to stop idiotic shit like this?
See above, your example is about a non progamer who you talked to on your own free-doing outside of B.Net and not even in-person and we don't know the context.
Big stretch you're making if we consider your second edit.
As someone said: wait for a topic to be made. Eventually social judgement will come and repercussions will ensue.
You can't stop people from expressing themselves, you can only try to deter it or punish them for it. Which I'm sure Spades will by his team under the pressure of frantic sponsors.
So what are you trying to say?
I guess what i'm getting at, is we can't leave it up to the teams to enforce the rules, we need a Constant rule book and rule keepers to ensure that everything is always fair. The teams can't be depended on to make their own decisions because it obviously isn't working.
Oh you meant the organizers of tournaments which they do. How is the team thing not working?
I'm not saying you don't have a potential point, you're just conveying it poorly and with exaggeration.
On September 25 2011 16:32 Torte de Lini wrote: This is Jedigamer, he compensates for his insecurity by putting a front of obnoxious attacks towards other people (regardless if it is deemed or not).
He said himself he'd "turn over a new leaf", but shortly after, ruined it.
Don't give him more attention and don't use him as an example for anything relative or related.
Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? Especially a GROWN MAN to a highschooler (me) like for our game
Get off the soapbox.
read the edits...
You mean the next edit you just put in.
Which makes your case even less of a general issue or point. I still suggest to get off. There are disciplinary measures for people or expressions of anger like this.
You sound patronizing a bit to be honest. "How can we, the people, enjoy such games if there is a fear of others, potentially better or worst than us in skill, plague our subculture with these insults and... dare I say it: threats of life! How can we grow as a community, a growing bunch of gamers and determined professionals when we are constantly in social fear of being lashed out upon with threats we would never receive in person or in real life!
The grounds of professionalism are shaken! NEVER TO BE SAME AGAIN!"
Except nearly all organizations have a basis of measures to prevent this or deter it in addition: professionals are sponsored. They make the team look bad, poor publicity for the sponsors and eventually lose more opportunities in the future.
It's not the threat, but putting down an emotionally damaged person can literally cause people to kill themselves, being a person who has MATURED how can you still be acting like that no matter what the case, What if i was emotionally damaged and I ended up killing myself, and then again even sponsored players saying shit like this on ladder should get them like suspended from a tourny or some shit, We will never be taken seriously as long as we have people like this acting this way (pro players) ofc. And i will redirate, there isn't a professional athlete out there that can say stuff like this during their events or just anywhere, why should Starcraft 2 players?
That is the risk of all things on the internet. About the emotionally-damaged person: that isn't even your original approach. Yours was, in addition, between a high-schooler and a grown man, but also: "Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? "
That's your question or debate topic.
There will always be outliers or exceptions of people who are of poor-manner. It is their nature and they aren't an example of the community nor of competitive gaming [which all have subcultures and levels or boundaries of bad manners or cussing].
What if you were emotionally damaged and you killed yourself? Would it be because of that sole instance of an unknown insulting you after losing a match? Unlikely, but a combination of multiple things.
I think you're just on the soapbox again to be honest, maybe I'm just tired of people always looking out for how to be exemplary so we can strive by scrutinizing the smallest shits that always happen in all sports (including professional ones).
I'm not on a soapbox i really don't give a shit about jedigamer or what happened to me it's an example. And the spades thing just proves my point, he's a pro gamer, who is known, why isn't there a organization formed between tournaments to put a stop to stuff like this? I mean I guess SC2Con in korea tried right, but what about a formation of like IGN + MLG+ DH + NASL to stop idiotic shit like this?
See above, your example is about a non progamer who you talked to on your own free-doing outside of B.Net and not even in-person and we don't know the context.
Big stretch you're making if we consider your second edit.
As someone said: wait for a topic to be made. Eventually social judgement will come and repercussions will ensue.
You can't stop people from expressing themselves, you can only try to deter it or punish them for it. Which I'm sure Spades will by his team under the pressure of frantic sponsors.
So what are you trying to say?
I guess what i'm getting at, is we can't leave it up to the teams to enforce the rules, we need a Constant rule book and rule keepers to ensure that everything is always fair. The teams can't be depended on to make their own decisions because it obviously isn't working.
Oh you meant the organizers of tournaments which they do. How is the team thing not working?
I'm not saying you don't have a potential point, you're just conveying it poorly and with exaggeration.
Which i apologize for i guess, i'm probably not the best at debating with you about this, but atleast i hope we can recognize an issue, and the team comment refers directly to idra, There could be silent repercussions for him but, I'd really like to see the tournies take more of a stand if he does extreme BM at their events which i think he has, I'll dig for the games tommorow.
getting hurt over internet trashtalk is bad. People talk shit, because it has no consequances, so dont bother, tell him to go fck himself or something, and move on.
And as mentioned pro-athlets also do this IRL and say a lot more hurtful stuff.
Idk, i don't mind people being like this...especially if it's in channel on bnet...it would be something else if he said it to camera during mlg interview but whatever
tbh I son't see what spades said going without any sort of punishment from Reign management. Most of reign is fairly well mannered. I think Spades was egged on and provoked. Cause tbh I rarely see him bm. But I might be wrong in this as I don't watch a ton of spades.
On September 25 2011 16:59 Geo.Rion wrote: getting hurt over internet trashtalk is bad. People talk shit, because it has no consequances, so dont bother, tell him to go fck himself or something, and move on.
And as mentioned pro-athlets also do this IRL and say a lot more hurtful stuff.
But ireally havn't heard much of it publically said, because maybe pro athletes are smarter than all of us?
On September 25 2011 16:59 RoyalCheese wrote: Idk, i don't mind people being like this...especially if it's in channel on bnet...it would be something else if he said it to camera during mlg interview but whatever
I think people like you don't help the issue, maybe if shit like this wasn't accepted by the whole community, people woulnd't talk to each other like this.
On September 25 2011 16:32 Torte de Lini wrote: This is Jedigamer, he compensates for his insecurity by putting a front of obnoxious attacks towards other people (regardless if it is deemed or not).
He said himself he'd "turn over a new leaf", but shortly after, ruined it.
Don't give him more attention and don't use him as an example for anything relative or related.
[quote]
Get off the soapbox.
read the edits...
You mean the next edit you just put in.
Which makes your case even less of a general issue or point. I still suggest to get off. There are disciplinary measures for people or expressions of anger like this.
You sound patronizing a bit to be honest. "How can we, the people, enjoy such games if there is a fear of others, potentially better or worst than us in skill, plague our subculture with these insults and... dare I say it: threats of life! How can we grow as a community, a growing bunch of gamers and determined professionals when we are constantly in social fear of being lashed out upon with threats we would never receive in person or in real life!
The grounds of professionalism are shaken! NEVER TO BE SAME AGAIN!"
Except nearly all organizations have a basis of measures to prevent this or deter it in addition: professionals are sponsored. They make the team look bad, poor publicity for the sponsors and eventually lose more opportunities in the future.
It's not the threat, but putting down an emotionally damaged person can literally cause people to kill themselves, being a person who has MATURED how can you still be acting like that no matter what the case, What if i was emotionally damaged and I ended up killing myself, and then again even sponsored players saying shit like this on ladder should get them like suspended from a tourny or some shit, We will never be taken seriously as long as we have people like this acting this way (pro players) ofc. And i will redirate, there isn't a professional athlete out there that can say stuff like this during their events or just anywhere, why should Starcraft 2 players?
That is the risk of all things on the internet. About the emotionally-damaged person: that isn't even your original approach. Yours was, in addition, between a high-schooler and a grown man, but also: "Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? "
That's your question or debate topic.
There will always be outliers or exceptions of people who are of poor-manner. It is their nature and they aren't an example of the community nor of competitive gaming [which all have subcultures and levels or boundaries of bad manners or cussing].
What if you were emotionally damaged and you killed yourself? Would it be because of that sole instance of an unknown insulting you after losing a match? Unlikely, but a combination of multiple things.
I think you're just on the soapbox again to be honest, maybe I'm just tired of people always looking out for how to be exemplary so we can strive by scrutinizing the smallest shits that always happen in all sports (including professional ones).
I'm not on a soapbox i really don't give a shit about jedigamer or what happened to me it's an example. And the spades thing just proves my point, he's a pro gamer, who is known, why isn't there a organization formed between tournaments to put a stop to stuff like this? I mean I guess SC2Con in korea tried right, but what about a formation of like IGN + MLG+ DH + NASL to stop idiotic shit like this?
See above, your example is about a non progamer who you talked to on your own free-doing outside of B.Net and not even in-person and we don't know the context.
Big stretch you're making if we consider your second edit.
As someone said: wait for a topic to be made. Eventually social judgement will come and repercussions will ensue.
You can't stop people from expressing themselves, you can only try to deter it or punish them for it. Which I'm sure Spades will by his team under the pressure of frantic sponsors.
So what are you trying to say?
I guess what i'm getting at, is we can't leave it up to the teams to enforce the rules, we need a Constant rule book and rule keepers to ensure that everything is always fair. The teams can't be depended on to make their own decisions because it obviously isn't working.
Oh you meant the organizers of tournaments which they do. How is the team thing not working?
I'm not saying you don't have a potential point, you're just conveying it poorly and with exaggeration.
Which i apologize for i guess, i'm probably not the best at debating with you about this, but atleast i hope we can recognize an issue, and the team comment refers directly to idra, There could be silent repercussions for him but, I'd really like to see the tournies take more of a stand if he does extreme BM at their events which i think he has, I'll dig for the games tommorow.
What's the issue? Because you have one example and we've yet to see the consequences ensue [yet].
Which extreme bm are you referencing? Sounds like you're picking an easy target due to his reputation without really naming what he's done.
Even so: two examples of two players over a period of a year of the game and hundreds of players and thousands of games and hundreds of tournaments.
The issue is so minor and the scrutinizing is bewildering!
Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote: Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.
I truly hope so, every time something like this happens it hurts the scene.
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote: Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.
I truly hope so, every time something like this happens it hurts the scene.
How much does it hurt the scene? In what way does it hurt the scene? What are the long-term consequences for his actions?
Not saying you're wrong, but that line is slapped on too much shit. Would love an elaboration to what you mean by "hurting the scene".
Yes, it hurts the "scene", but to what extent and how so? Do the interested parties intentionally look for these particular instances of lapsed judgement so they can find a reason to "avoid" a potential new market?
On September 25 2011 16:32 BigBadBeaver wrote: No "pro" would say things as sensitive as "kill yourself" in a tournament setting. Most people are quite reasonable when there are people watching.
IMO, good sportsmanship is important and this sort of thing shouldn't be encouraged. I'd love it if, for example, we had an all-inclusive enough set of professional and semi-pro leagues (equivalent to, say, the NBA and the NCAA) that players could be penalized in a meaningful way for bad manners, bad sportsmanship, hate speech, etc - it gives ESPORTS a bad name - but until then, I'm just going to do my best to ignore it and the players involved. There's a reason it's been years since I've been able to root for idra.
On September 25 2011 16:32 BigBadBeaver wrote: No "pro" would say things as sensitive as "kill yourself" in a tournament setting. Most people are quite reasonable when there are people watching.
Idra?
Here you go. Now you guys can all fret and panic about the scene!
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote: Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.
I truly hope so, every time something like this happens it hurts the scene.
How much does it hurt the scene? In what way does it hurt the scene? What are the long-term consequences for his actions?
Not saying you're wrong, but that line is slapped on too much shit. Would love an elaboration to what you mean by "hurting the scene".
Yes, it hurts the "scene", but to what extent and how so? Do the interested parties intentionally look for these particular instances of lapsed judgement so they can find a reason to "avoid" a potential new market?
I pm'd you about But basically from a standpoint of a spectator/sponsor/investor OUTSIDE of our community/gaming scene how can we be taken seriously with stuff like this being said between players...
On September 25 2011 16:32 BigBadBeaver wrote: No "pro" would say things as sensitive as "kill yourself" in a tournament setting. Most people are quite reasonable when there are people watching.
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote: Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.
I truly hope so, every time something like this happens it hurts the scene.
How much does it hurt the scene? In what way does it hurt the scene? What are the long-term consequences for his actions?
Not saying you're wrong, but that line is slapped on too much shit. Would love an elaboration to what you mean by "hurting the scene".
Yes, it hurts the "scene", but to what extent and how so? Do the interested parties intentionally look for these particular instances of lapsed judgement so they can find a reason to "avoid" a potential new market?
I pm'd you about But basically from a standpoint of a spectator/sponsor/investor OUTSIDE of our community/gaming scene how can we be taken seriously with stuff like this being said between players...
The same way any other organization, sport, competition, event does it. By focusing on the better side of things. Only those who go looking for issues usually find these issues, in which case they're probably inclined not to join in on this "scene".
If this issue you're naming was so huge, immediate and a dire issue, then yes, this conversation would feel so much more relevant and potentially revolutionary.
I have spoken with Spades, and as the manager of ItsGoSu, and a friend of RGN, and Spades as well. I know this is just a misunderstanding. Tempers flared, some wrong things were said, it happens. No hard feelings on our end, and I hope that people can let it go. People make mistakes, I know I sure do, and I am sure everyone else here does as well. No hard feelings!
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote: Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.
I truly hope so, every time something like this happens it hurts the scene.
How much does it hurt the scene? In what way does it hurt the scene? What are the long-term consequences for his actions?
Not saying you're wrong, but that line is slapped on too much shit. Would love an elaboration to what you mean by "hurting the scene".
Yes, it hurts the "scene", but to what extent and how so? Do the interested parties intentionally look for these particular instances of lapsed judgement so they can find a reason to "avoid" a potential new market?
I pm'd you about But basically from a standpoint of a spectator/sponsor/investor OUTSIDE of our community/gaming scene how can we be taken seriously with stuff like this being said between players...
The same way any other organization, sport, competition, event does it. By focusing on the better side of things. Only those who go looking for issues usually find these issues, in which case they're probably inclined not to join in on this "scene".
If this issue you're naming was so huge, immediate and a dire issue, then yes, this conversation would feel so much more relevant and potentially revolutionary.
Why would you not try to prevent something like this rather than say lets wait till it happens? The best defense a good offense we need to realize that there is a big chance that more stuff like this will happen, but players need to know that there will be repercussions.... Which is why i still feel that the best way to deal with this would be an organization between all big tournaments.
1) freedom of speech - yes, i can say whatever i want as long as it is not declaration of intent to harm
2) morality - eh, debatable. Obviously to insult someone is to try and hurt them with words. Definitely not good but.. not bad enough to impose your will on them (to prevent them from doing it), IMO.
3) thickness of skin - It's the internet, people are assholes. People will say horrible things, it is their right. Be a man and tough it out. What difference is it if some kid calls you a faggot in the playground or in the cafeteria, or over the internet? The answer is that there is no difference.
Basically, sorry you got shit talked but i don't think this kind of discussion is in the best interest of a free and open internet. And, a free and open internet is one of the few things left in the world worth protecting with our lives. Kind of a tangent, but if you start telling people what they can and cannot say, you're making a more grave moral wrong than they would be for saying bad things.
Should it be allowed in Tournaments? I like it personally, but I can understand if sponsors wouldn't want that sort of thing going on.
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote: Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.
I truly hope so, every time something like this happens it hurts the scene.
How much does it hurt the scene? In what way does it hurt the scene? What are the long-term consequences for his actions?
Not saying you're wrong, but that line is slapped on too much shit. Would love an elaboration to what you mean by "hurting the scene".
Yes, it hurts the "scene", but to what extent and how so? Do the interested parties intentionally look for these particular instances of lapsed judgement so they can find a reason to "avoid" a potential new market?
I pm'd you about But basically from a standpoint of a spectator/sponsor/investor OUTSIDE of our community/gaming scene how can we be taken seriously with stuff like this being said between players...
The same way any other organization, sport, competition, event does it. By focusing on the better side of things. Only those who go looking for issues usually find these issues, in which case they're probably inclined not to join in on this "scene".
If this issue you're naming was so huge, immediate and a dire issue, then yes, this conversation would feel so much more relevant and potentially revolutionary.
Why would you not try to prevent something like this rather than say lets wait till it happens? The best defense a good offense we need to realize that there is a big chance that more stuff like this will happen, but players need to know that there will be repercussions.... Which is why i still feel that the best way to deal with this would be an organization between all big tournaments.
Prevent what? You can't prevent it. I just said that. You can only deter it or punish those who do it. I'm just repeating myself here. I said there are disciplinary actions from tournament organizers and teams due to the pressures of their sponsors?
So what are you saying? I said this last time and you ignored me. I said that the issue was minor and had rare exceptions and you ignored it. I said that you had one anecdotal issue with Jedigamer in a private conversation and you ignored it. I said Spades was an exception as well and look, he came back, apologized and the other team accepts it and realizes that these are just rarities of lapsed judgement. You ignored that too.
YOU CAN'T PREVENT PEOPLE FROM EXPRESSING THEMSELVES, YOU CAN ONLY PUNISH OR DETER IT. The higher the punishment, the more people will restrain themselves, but there are already so few forms or events of major life-threatening instances. I can't even think of one instance at a live event where someone actually not only threatened the other player, but follow-up on it.
And it's deterred by the community's high standards and probably topics like this that scrutinize the smallest and one-time issues that arise on a very rare occasion.
On September 25 2011 17:16 darkscream wrote: 1) freedom of speech - yes, i can say whatever i want as long as it is not declaration of intent to harm
2) morality - eh, debatable. Obviously to insult someone is to try and hurt them with words. Definitely not good but.. not bad enough to impose your will on them (to prevent them from doing it), IMO.
3) thickness of skin - It's the internet, people are assholes. People will say horrible things, it is their right. Be a man and tough it out. What difference is it if some kid calls you a faggot in the playground or in the cafeteria, or over the internet? The answer is that there is no difference.
Basically, sorry you got shit talked but i don't think this kind of discussion is in the best interest of a free and open internet. And, a free and open internet is one of the few things left in the world worth protecting with our lives. Kind of a tangent, but if you start telling people what they can and cannot say, you're making a more grave moral wrong than they would be for saying bad things.
Should it be allowed in Tournaments? I like it personally, but I can understand if sponsors wouldn't want that sort of thing going on.
This argument has shifted a ton, a mod should probably rename the thread but basically from a scene enthusiast wouldn't you agree that this hurts it? How can we be taken seriously, you should probably read the last 3 pages. :-)
It's the internet, if this is problamatic for you, you better get used to it instead of being an insecure child who needs approval from random internet trolls.
It's your fault if you let random people bother you.
On September 25 2011 17:16 darkscream wrote: 1) freedom of speech - yes, i can say whatever i want as long as it is not declaration of intent to harm
2) morality - eh, debatable. Obviously to insult someone is to try and hurt them with words. Definitely not good but.. not bad enough to impose your will on them (to prevent them from doing it), IMO.
3) thickness of skin - It's the internet, people are assholes. People will say horrible things, it is their right. Be a man and tough it out. What difference is it if some kid calls you a faggot in the playground or in the cafeteria, or over the internet? The answer is that there is no difference.
Basically, sorry you got shit talked but i don't think this kind of discussion is in the best interest of a free and open internet. And, a free and open internet is one of the few things left in the world worth protecting with our lives. Kind of a tangent, but if you start telling people what they can and cannot say, you're making a more grave moral wrong than they would be for saying bad things.
Should it be allowed in Tournaments? I like it personally, but I can understand if sponsors wouldn't want that sort of thing going on.
This argument has shifted a ton, a mod should probably rename the thread but basically from a scene enthusiast wouldn't you agree that this hurts it? How can we be taken seriously, you should probably read the last 3 pages. :-)
Lol, no it didn't. It's the same as before .__. I just named how we could be taken seriously, why do you repeat the same questions?
I liked you in the CraftCup a lot, but this topic really has me scratching my head.
On September 25 2011 16:20 Bonkerz wrote: Here we go spades being racist and physical threat how can be taken seriously with this stuff going on? http://imgur.com/TQKVz
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote: Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.
On September 25 2011 17:13 RuMCaKe wrote: I have spoken with Spades, and as the manager of ItsGoSu, and a friend of RGN, and Spades as well. I know this is just a misunderstanding. Tempers flared, some wrong things were said, it happens. No hard feelings on our end, and I hope that people can let it go. People make mistakes, I know I sure do, and I am sure everyone else here does as well. No hard feelings!
Spades, lets have a beer at Orlando
What triggered this thread was that a semi pro/ high level terran on NA ladder on skype told me i should go kill myself which lead me to think about the question. The fact that we see pro players threatening each other when we as a community are still trying to gain legitimacy outside of the gaming world.
For our game what we love,to go to the next level, do we need people to mature. In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this because it is a THREAT, and over the interenet it is no different, I doubt that anybody would come up to my face and tell me to kill myself.
Yeah sorry if this has been discussed but i feel it's worth a thread, What do you guys think?
Bonkerz
lol... Can only imagine a world when police took every e-threat serious.
You know you can report these players on b.net as a real life threat.
honestly, i think spades should get some sort of punishment for this. you don't make these threats and then 'forget about it'. shit like this shouldn't be acceptable.
On September 25 2011 17:18 Russano wrote: It's the internet, if this is problamatic for you, you better get used to it instead of being an insecure child who needs approval from random internet trolls.
It's your fault if you let random people bother you.
Lol Russano, for anyone who doesnt know.. is the most BM toss (next to combatex maybe?) on NA.
- Spades was obviously provoked, Hwangsin was being an asshole. Spades knew in real life that hwangsin wouldn't talk like that to his face, so he made a point of reminding him that. Everyone is aware tempers flare in sc2, especially after a tough loss.
Hwangsin should be apologizing as well, for antagonizing and disrespecting Spades as a player.
On September 25 2011 17:23 zeOllie wrote: You know you can report these players on b.net as a real life threat.
honestly, i think spades should get some sort of punishment for this. you don't make these threats and then 'forget about it'. shit like this shouldn't be acceptable.
It happened on skype, which he can do as well. Agreed to be honest.
Everyone gets rage on the ladder, though I've yet had someone threaten to kill me lol. Usually I take rage as a sign that I played a really good game and try and leave it at that. Its almost like a subtle compliment.
But obviously, to grow a respectable reputation the gaming community has to step up a bit and cool down the aggressive tones.
Seeing as I play on Xbox Live (where the BM makes SC2 players look like fine high-class gentlemen) besides PC, BM really doesn't mean much to me as long as it's not in competitive, formal, professional play.
As long as Spades behaves at MLG, then I don't care if he's in a pissy mood on the ladder. Sure, it's a bit idiotic to be seriously insulting people in any scenario, but it's not the end of the world that he raged on SC2.
On September 25 2011 17:30 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Seeing as I play on Xbox Live (where the BM makes SC2 players look like fine high-class gentlemen) besides PC, BM really doesn't mean much to me as long as it's not in competitive, formal, professional play.
As long as Spades behaves at MLG, then I don't care if he's in a pissy mood on the ladder. Sure, it's a bit idiotic to be seriously insulting people in any scenario, but it's not the end of the world that he raged on SC2.
I agree with this completely on the ladder part, however.. I think this was for a tournament. In tournaments (small or large) professional players should conduct themselves as such. Both hwangsin and spades were at fault.
This game can be very frustrating at times...... frustration leads to anger, which then leads to poor judgement and poor decisions =p
We could probably all work on maintaining our composure, but sometimes these things happen, I dont think a player should be punished for it though, not if its just a small online type of event.
It really depends on the sponsors involved and what their standards are, but most likely any kind of tournament with serious sponsorship will be treated professionally by everyone involved.
Ofcourse its not "okay" but what other outcome can you expect from the online gaming community which is largely young, quite often immature males who get easily angry/upset, add in the sprinkle of anno and there can be no other result than the most juvenile acts.
The only thing you can do is to ignore it, show total indifference and move on. If anything i expect pro players to be even more BM in most cases than your average player.
I think it's not ok to let stuff like this unpunished. I mean sometimes I get frustrated too when I lose and say stuff like "I hate you :-)" after getting my mineral line roasted by hellions or something but personal threats should not be let unpunished in my opinion.
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote: Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something RACIST. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in a RACIST manner again.
fixed
In addition to HwangSin, you need to apologize to every Asian player and viewer. Well, not even just Asians, you need to apologize to everyone, including your fans for your idiocy and violent racist remarks. You have shown no remorse on the Reddit thread. In fact, you insulted the OP. It's hard to believe you're this stupid and that you don't realize your future in pro Starcraft is seriously in jeopardy.
I find it more difficult to swallow that people of the internet have the inability to cope with the fact that some people are going to say stupid shit. So what? Someone said something racist, does it really matter? Like seriously? Does it REALLY matter?
Its really beyond me how the internet culture can throw tons of derogatory terms around but get hung up on a professional player saying the same thing. On the internet its like a cage of monkeys flinging excrement at each other, deal with it. I highly doubt people carry these same feeling when they meet at a lan.
People are gonna say stupid shit and it only really means anything if you let it mean something, so please as an appeal to the entire who the hell ever takes such things to heart, just stop. Chill, let it go or I'll slap your shit during our next ladder match, kk?
Heres a nutshell of what happened today. Bonkerz makes a VERY poor mech guide. I question said guide based on theory, skill, and ability to help improve lower level players realistically. Bonkerz gets slightly butthurt, and hunts my stream down. Bonkerz questions my mech builds via chat and begins messaging me on skype uninvited, posing as someone who wanted coaching. Then he says my coaching isn't worth money, and starts belittling me because my TvP is abusive. He also states my mech is bad and that I can't compete with pros (Not true, can provide reps but hate to post my own replays). I begin to vigorously insult his ignorance and guessed that he was in high school without knowing anything about him, based on his bandwagon-ishness and ignorance. I proceed to recommend he kill himself. I never once threatened to kick his ass or even be affiliated with him mentally physically or emotionally.
Moral of the story, Sticks and stones can break bones, but words can wilt pansies.
As for my "new leaf" I honestly have done a lot better, sure I've F*'d up a bit but it is nothing like it was 2 months ago. I was even wishing Combatex and deezer GL HF and they both GG'd when I beat them. Never thought that possible I've been cleaning up my focus and beating tons of top players and it feels great. Thanks for those who support me and those who hate me I don't blame you.. It wasn't as easy as snapping my fingers, and I will continue to try to control my temper better.
On September 25 2011 17:44 TKatzurimata wrote: I find it more difficult to swallow that people of the internet have the inability to cope with the fact that some people are going to say stupid shit. So what? Someone said something racist, does it really matter? Like seriously? Does it REALLY matter?
Its really beyond me how the internet culture can throw tons of derogatory terms around but get hung up on a professional player saying the same thing. On the internet its like a cage of monkeys flinging excrement at each other, deal with it. I highly doubt people carry these same feeling when they meet at a lan.
People are gonna say stupid shit and it only really means anything if you let it mean something, so please as an appeal to the entire who the hell ever takes such things to heart, just stop. Chill, let it go or I'll slap your shit during our next ladder match, kk?
When you're representing a team and sponsorship, yea it does matter quite a bit.
Unfortunately, the fact that the internet is populated by so many immature pricks gives me little faith that e-sports can grow into a mainstream industry. (Along with a host of other issues, but that's beside the point)
On September 25 2011 17:48 JediGamer wrote: Heres a nutshell of what happened today. Bonkerz makes a VERY poor mech guide. I question said guide based on theory, skill, and ability to help improve lower level players realistically. Bonkerz gets slightly butthurt, and hunts my stream down. Bonkerz questions my mech builds via chat and begins messaging me on skype uninvited, posing as someone who wanted coaching. Then he says my coaching isn't worth money, and starts belittling me because my TvP is abusive. He also states my mech is bad and that I can't compete with pros (Not true, can provide reps but hate to post my own replays). I begin to vigorously insult his ignorance and guessed that he was in high school without knowing anything about him, based on his bandwagon-ishness and ignorance. I proceed to recommend he kill himself. I never once threatened to kick his ass or even be affiliated with him mentally physically or emotionally.
Moral of the story, Sticks and stones can break bones, but words can wilt pansies.
Screenshot otherwise this is just hot smoke of a scenario.
2 white guys calling each other the N word is not anywhere near the same league as what Spades said. Has Destiny taught us nothing? It's the thoughts behind the words and not the words themselves. And in Spades' case the thoughts seem pretty obvious.
Besides, this was a tourney where Spades was representing RGN, not a ladder game
On September 25 2011 17:48 JediGamer wrote: Heres a nutshell of what happened today. Bonkerz makes a VERY poor mech guide. I question said guide based on theory, skill, and ability to help improve lower level players realistically. Bonkerz gets slightly butthurt, and hunts my stream down. Bonkerz questions my mech builds via chat and begins messaging me on skype uninvited, posing as someone who wanted coaching. Then he says my coaching isn't worth money, and starts belittling me because my TvP is abusive. He also states my mech is bad and that I can't compete with pros (Not true, can provide reps but hate to post my own replays). I begin to vigorously insult his ignorance and guessed that he was in high school without knowing anything about him, based on his bandwagon-ishness and ignorance. I proceed to recommend he kill himself. I never once threatened to kick his ass or even be affiliated with him mentally physically or emotionally.
Moral of the story, Sticks and stones can break bones, but words can wilt pansies.
As someone who comes into threads and bitches about BM they've received on ladder, I find it hilarious that you have the balls to come and whine about him calling you on your bullshit when you do it.
If tournaments or sponsors don't allow BM thats up to them, as random ladder games on the internet, all you can do is just not associate with BM players, it's all up to you.
Insults are only insults when you allow them to bother you. I fail to see why anyone would want to get themselves worked up over internet arguments, despite it happening constantly.
On September 25 2011 17:48 JediGamer wrote: Heres a nutshell of what happened today. Bonkerz makes a VERY poor mech guide. I question said guide based on theory, skill, and ability to help improve lower level players realistically. Bonkerz gets slightly butthurt, and hunts my stream down. Bonkerz questions my mech builds via chat and begins messaging me on skype uninvited, posing as someone who wanted coaching. Then he says my coaching isn't worth money, and starts belittling me because my TvP is abusive. He also states my mech is bad and that I can't compete with pros (Not true, can provide reps but hate to post my own replays). I begin to vigorously insult his ignorance and guessed that he was in high school without knowing anything about him, based on his bandwagon-ishness and ignorance. I proceed to recommend he kill himself. I never once threatened to kick his ass or even be affiliated with him mentally physically or emotionally.
Moral of the story, Sticks and stones can break bones, but words can wilt pansies.
As someone who comes into threads and bitches about BM they've received on ladder, I find it hilarious that you have the balls to come and whine about him calling you on your bullshit when you do it.
If tournaments or sponsors don't allow BM thats up to them, as random ladder games on the internet, all you can do is just not associate with BM players, it's all up to you.
Insults are only insults when you allow them to bother you. I fail to see why anyone would want to get themselves worked up over internet arguments, despite it happening constantly.
Are you on ACID el russano. First off , I'm the person people make QQ threads ABOUT. Second off, I literally laugh when people bad manner me, I find it hilarious. Third off, calling me on my bullshit? I didn't even make any statements to him.
edit: The irony of " I fail to see why anyone would want to get themselves worked up over internet arguments, despite it happening constantly." is immense. This is your second worked up post here.
So HwangSin started talking shit, Spades throws out a racial slur and people start getting butthurt over it?
It's the Internet guys, people throw around racial and sexist slurs all the time. Spades is in the wrong for responding to it, but I don't think that this thread is needed at all. Anyone with half a brain will just ignore the person throwing racial slurs out of his keyboard, no matter who they are. And to the person saying that Spades owes an apology to all the Asians.. just fucking lol.
On September 25 2011 17:53 iloveAthene wrote: 2 white guys calling each other the N word is not anywhere near the same league as what Spades said. Has Destiny taught us nothing? It's the thoughts behind the words and not the words themselves. And in Spades' case the thoughts seem pretty obvious.
Besides, this was a tourney where Spades was representing RGN, not a ladder game
How can you interpret the thoughts behind a single line of text? Tell me what i can do for you to make you happy? I've apologized publicly, I've apologized to HwangSin on a skype call, everything is fine in the world, but you apparently think I'm the modern day Starcraft 2 Hitler. I apologize to anyone who was offended, I said this in a chat channel with about 30 people in it. I didn't say this on stream, i didnt post this all over the internet, my intentions were never to insult anyone outside HwangSin, which was clearly a lapse in composure, and I apologized. HwangSin and I, have both apologized to eachother for our argument on a skype call, and we have moved on with no hard feelings. I have no issue with HwangSin, or the asian community whatsoever, and again I apologize if you were offended.
On September 25 2011 17:53 iloveAthene wrote: 2 white guys calling each other the N word is not anywhere near the same league as what Spades said. Has Destiny taught us nothing? It's the thoughts behind the words and not the words themselves. And in Spades' case the thoughts seem pretty obvious.
Besides, this was a tourney where Spades was representing RGN, not a ladder game
How can you interpret the thoughts behind a single line of text? Tell me what i can do for you to make you happy? I've apologized publicly, I've apologized to HwangSin on a skype call, everything is fine in the world, but you apparently think I'm the modern day Starcraft 2 Hitler. I apologize to anyone who was offended, I said this in a chat channel with about 30 people in it. I didn't say this on stream, i didnt post this all over the internet, my intentions were never to insult anyone outside HwangSin, which was clearly a lapse in composure, and I apologized. HwangSin and I, have both apologized to eachother for our argument on a skype call, and we have moved on with no hard feelings. I have no issue with HwangSin, or the asian community whatsoever, and again I apologize if you were offended.
you really should ignore people like that
you've apologized for what you've done and that's all you can do
On September 25 2011 17:48 JediGamer wrote: Heres a nutshell of what happened today. Bonkerz makes a VERY poor mech guide. I question said guide based on theory, skill, and ability to help improve lower level players realistically. Bonkerz gets slightly butthurt, and hunts my stream down. Bonkerz questions my mech builds via chat and begins messaging me on skype uninvited, posing as someone who wanted coaching. Then he says my coaching isn't worth money, and starts belittling me because my TvP is abusive. He also states my mech is bad and that I can't compete with pros (Not true, can provide reps but hate to post my own replays). I begin to vigorously insult his ignorance and guessed that he was in high school without knowing anything about him, based on his bandwagon-ishness and ignorance. I proceed to recommend he kill himself. I never once threatened to kick his ass or even be affiliated with him mentally physically or emotionally.
Moral of the story, Sticks and stones can break bones, but words can wilt pansies.
Screenshot otherwise this is just hot smoke of a scenario.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
So here we have it, this terrible "victim" was harassing me on skype for absolutely no reason, then I react with nonthreatening insults and all of a sudden his butt feels a pain no high schooler nor man can withstand.
You have come into other threads to bitch about being BM'd, and you did make statements to him wtih your BM.
"I begin to vigorously insult his ignorance and guessed that he was in high school without knowing anything about him, based on his bandwagon-ishness and ignorance. I proceed to recommend he kill himself."
He didn't even mention who did the BMing, and you feel the need to come in and defend yourself, seems like you do let it bother you.
On September 25 2011 16:26 BigBadBeaver wrote: The internet can be ridiculous like that. I've been told to kill myself multiple times on the ladder. I think playing terran has somethin to do with it. Damn racists..
And this guy you're talking to seems to have had issues before...
Ladder is one thing, and yes the guy im talking to has a ton of issues, but from more pro players who use language like this, should tournaments allow it? Personally I feel it should be a fine/dq if you use shit like that, it really needs to be cut down...
If I remember correctly Major said somthing bad to other play during game at mlg(?) And he got warning from that or somthing like that
On September 25 2011 17:53 iloveAthene wrote: 2 white guys calling each other the N word is not anywhere near the same league as what Spades said. Has Destiny taught us nothing? It's the thoughts behind the words and not the words themselves. And in Spades' case the thoughts seem pretty obvious.
Besides, this was a tourney where Spades was representing RGN, not a ladder game
How can you interpret the thoughts behind a single line of text? Tell me what i can do for you to make you happy? I've apologized publicly, I've apologized to HwangSin on a skype call, everything is fine in the world, but you apparently think I'm the modern day Starcraft 2 Hitler. I apologize to anyone who was offended, I said this in a chat channel with about 30 people in it. I didn't say this on stream, i didnt post this all over the internet, my intentions were never to insult anyone outside HwangSin, which was clearly a lapse in composure, and I apologized. HwangSin and I, have both apologized to eachother for our argument on a skype call, and we have moved on with no hard feelings. I have no issue with HwangSin, or the asian community whatsoever, and again I apologize if you were offended.
I think its the threat of violence that leads my interpretation. When someone says "I hope you get cancer and die" or even "I'm gonna rape your sister" we all know that's not serious. But your's seemed realistic enough that you might actually mean it.
And "I apologize if you were offended" isn't a very genuine apology.
On September 25 2011 17:53 iloveAthene wrote: 2 white guys calling each other the N word is not anywhere near the same league as what Spades said. Has Destiny taught us nothing? It's the thoughts behind the words and not the words themselves. And in Spades' case the thoughts seem pretty obvious.
Besides, this was a tourney where Spades was representing RGN, not a ladder game
I'm tired of hearing this tbh, I don't care what context someone chooses to use the N word in. I don't like hearing that offensive word in any context at all and should never be rationalized. it's pathetic that this is the mentality of a large majority of people... sigh
On September 25 2011 17:53 iloveAthene wrote: 2 white guys calling each other the N word is not anywhere near the same league as what Spades said. Has Destiny taught us nothing? It's the thoughts behind the words and not the words themselves. And in Spades' case the thoughts seem pretty obvious.
Besides, this was a tourney where Spades was representing RGN, not a ladder game
I'm tired of hearing this tbh, I don't care what context someone chooses to use the N word in. I don't like hearing that offensive word in any context at all and should never be rationalized. it's pathetic that this is the mentality of a large majority of people... sigh
Yeah, I don't like hearing the N word either. Just pointing out that the Spades quote isn't even justifiable under the "context argument."
Lost respect for Spades. Everyone loses their temper but there is a line. Why people default to race / sex / age as insults is beyond me - they usually just make the poster look like a complete jackass.
Looks like this has all been resolved... kind of ridiculous that a thread was created so you could cry about someone being mad @ you. It's the internet, people get mad as hell all the time. Either grow some thicker skin or do something else.
On September 25 2011 17:48 JediGamer wrote: Heres a nutshell of what happened today. Bonkerz makes a VERY poor mech guide. I question said guide based on theory, skill, and ability to help improve lower level players realistically. Bonkerz gets slightly butthurt, and hunts my stream down. Bonkerz questions my mech builds via chat and begins messaging me on skype uninvited, posing as someone who wanted coaching. Then he says my coaching isn't worth money, and starts belittling me because my TvP is abusive. He also states my mech is bad and that I can't compete with pros (Not true, can provide reps but hate to post my own replays). I begin to vigorously insult his ignorance and guessed that he was in high school without knowing anything about him, based on his bandwagon-ishness and ignorance. I proceed to recommend he kill himself. I never once threatened to kick his ass or even be affiliated with him mentally physically or emotionally.
Moral of the story, Sticks and stones can break bones, but words can wilt pansies.
Screenshot otherwise this is just hot smoke of a scenario.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
So here we have it, this terrible "victim" was harassing me on skype for absolutely no reason, then I react with nonthreatening insults and all of a sudden his butt feels a pain no high schooler nor man can withstand.
In no way I want to implicate myself in this, but did you seriously post a screenshot of yourself being a douchebag to someone else, boast for no reasons, encourage him to commit suicide, and then whine that that person is not mannered?
If you want to take a legalistic approach we can assume that the SC2 chat rules are the same as Blizzard's WoW chat rules in that explicit death threats (I am going to kill you motherflipper) will get you a ban if the person you threatened bothered to report you.
Personally though? Ladder is a game, don't take it so seriously. Tournaments might be a bit different but the two of you are professionals who do this for a living. Getting pissed off to this point simply hurts your image as a players and the image of SC2 in general.
Can we move on? Spades made a mistake and was all hot headed and what HwangSin said certainly didn't help. I don't think Spades is a very mannered player, neither am I, but making a huge deal out of it... seriously guys.
There are a lot of players (pros as well) who sometimes bad manner, but they happen to do it in a more private way (aka P.M, or chat on bnet) and not in public so it actually never appears as thread on TL.
Move on. If HwangSin and Spades can do that, why can't we?
I think this is a bullshit post, no-one would make a post about HwangSin trolling Spades but as soon as he reacts to it the knives are out. I hope this thread gets closed quickly.
All the organizations will deal with it and so will the teams involved if the sponsors get a ton of shit over it. BM up to a point is good for the scene. It produces rivalries and drama and story between players. Just think if how much more hype happened when MC throat slashed or IdrA flipped him off. It creates that tension for a spectator sport.
If you just go look at the confusing bm thread, you'll see a ton worse shit than anything Spades or some guy that told you to go kill yourself. Who gives a shit, people over the internet rage and say dumb stuff all the time. There is a difference between being a keyboard warrior and touting guns and knives threatening people.
Either way, I don't see BM hurting "the scene"...i just see another horrible threads making over-exaggerated claims about the impact of small isolated incidents. Everyone just either needs to ignore each other or say sorry and be professional about it. Move on.
On September 25 2011 18:59 mTw|NarutO wrote: Can we move on? Spades made a mistake and was all hot headed and what HwangSin said certainly didn't help. I don't think Spades is a very mannered player, neither am I, but making a huge deal out of it... seriously guys.
There are a lot of players (pros as well) who sometimes bad manner, but they happen to do it in a more private way (aka P.M, or chat on bnet) and not in public so it actually never appears as thread on TL.
Move on. If HwangSin and Spades can do that, why can't we?
I agree with you.
What I don't know if you're considering is that racially / sexually charged comments are not the same as "FUCK YOU ZOMG WHY I LOSE I SO MAD!"
The fact that everyone does it doesn't make it less immature. We should definitely move on, but I hope people learn from it at least.
On September 25 2011 17:48 JediGamer wrote: Heres a nutshell of what happened today. Bonkerz makes a VERY poor mech guide. I question said guide based on theory, skill, and ability to help improve lower level players realistically. Bonkerz gets slightly butthurt, and hunts my stream down. Bonkerz questions my mech builds via chat and begins messaging me on skype uninvited, posing as someone who wanted coaching. Then he says my coaching isn't worth money, and starts belittling me because my TvP is abusive. He also states my mech is bad and that I can't compete with pros (Not true, can provide reps but hate to post my own replays). I begin to vigorously insult his ignorance and guessed that he was in high school without knowing anything about him, based on his bandwagon-ishness and ignorance. I proceed to recommend he kill himself. I never once threatened to kick his ass or even be affiliated with him mentally physically or emotionally.
Moral of the story, Sticks and stones can break bones, but words can wilt pansies.
Screenshot otherwise this is just hot smoke of a scenario.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
So here we have it, this terrible "victim" was harassing me on skype for absolutely no reason, then I react with nonthreatening insults and all of a sudden his butt feels a pain no high schooler nor man can withstand.
In no way I want to implicate myself in this, but did you seriously post a screenshot of yourself being a douchebag to someone else, boast for no reasons, encourage him to commit suicide, and then whine that that person is not mannered?
Mind boggling.
Jedi Gamer is an idiot. Why are we even giving him attention?
Minus the racial slur. The topic is terrible, not only because the original OP (that was edited) was a plea case about how he was helplessly told to go die (after he engaged/provoked it with sarcasm [see screenshot by Jedigamer]), but that Spades thing was regulated and patches quickly before anything ensued.
Look at that, it happened all online, I wonder what it'd be like if this was all in-person.
Sweeping fears off of two instances + the first 4 pages are him going in circles with no concrete ideas or arguments and the usual: "YOURE HURTING THE SCENE, BUT I CANT SPECIFY HOW OR BY WHAT EXTENT IN THE LONG RUN".
The racial thing should get its discussion and perhaps something official, but I mean this OP is just a cesspool of frantic scrutinizing about something he hardly knows about or takes into account the already precautionary measures.
Bming at all in a pro LAN with 500-1000 viewers is bad but what Spades did is bmed online on battle.net and word of it only got here on tl. The sc2 community that is "around" those cup chat c and "around" tl understand bm and won't make a big deal out of it while the 20-30% viewers of the tournaments that only watch big LANs and aren't into "esport" that much will never know that Spades "argued" with Hwangsin. Honestly if you look at the bm in starcraft 2 its only word it unharmful.... like Idra and HuK for exemple were "rivals" fo life and bmed one another to death even in LANs yet they said they have no problems with each other personally. Compare that to sport like soccer where players not only beat each other on the field sometimes they do it during the match and Hokey/Basketball are up there as well.... also consider that those guys are 2-3 years older then most sc2 pros Sc2 has one of the more mannered pro community ever if you ask me.
On September 25 2011 19:14 Torte de Lini wrote: Minus the racial slur. The topic is terrible, not only because the original OP (that was edited) was a plea case about how he was helplessly told to go die (after he engaged/provoked it with sarcasm [see screenshot by Jedigamer]), but that Spades thing was regulated and patches quickly before anything ensued.
Look at that, it happened all online, I wonder what it'd be like if this was all in-person.
Sweeping fears off of two instances + the first 4 pages are him going in circles with no concrete ideas or arguments and the usual: "YOURE HURTING THE SCENE, BUT I CANT SPECIFY HOW OR BY WHAT EXTENT IN THE LONG RUN".
The racial thing should get its discussion and perhaps something official, but I mean this OP is just a cesspool of frantic scrutinizing about something he hardly knows about or takes into account the already precautionary measures.
I think the OP stopped responding to his own thread because you clearly had him beat in every way possible for your debate (if you can call something that one-sided a debate).
How a player BMing someone hurts the scene is beyond me, cause clearly people will look to the battle.net chat logs as the scene grows... or private skype chats for that matter. This whole thread seems overly pointless. hell even in real sports during interviews players have been known to shit talk other players (albiet not with racist remarks, however this was cleared up quickly like any real sport would be).
Doesn't matter if you are pro or semi pro or a fucking noob, when tempers flare, you have no idea what you are going to say. It only looks bad for the "community" when someone makes a big deal about something so small. I feel like everything "pro-gamers" do and say are constantly under a microscope and what RGNSpades said was nothing more than what anybody playing video games would say when they get pissed off when they lose. LOL.
PS. Also, I'm pretty sure nobody in this thread has a halo over their heads when it comes to mannerisms in starcraft ROFL.
On September 25 2011 19:14 Torte de Lini wrote: Minus the racial slur. The topic is terrible, not only because the original OP (that was edited) was a plea case about how he was helplessly told to go die (after he engaged/provoked it with sarcasm [see screenshot by Jedigamer]), but that Spades thing was regulated and patches quickly before anything ensued.
Look at that, it happened all online, I wonder what it'd be like if this was all in-person.
Sweeping fears off of two instances + the first 4 pages are him going in circles with no concrete ideas or arguments and the usual: "YOURE HURTING THE SCENE, BUT I CANT SPECIFY HOW OR BY WHAT EXTENT IN THE LONG RUN".
The racial thing should get its discussion and perhaps something official, but I mean this OP is just a cesspool of frantic scrutinizing about something he hardly knows about or takes into account the already precautionary measures.
I think the OP stopped responding to his own thread because you clearly had him beat in every way possible for your debate (if you can call something that one-sided a debate).
How a player BMing someone hurts the scene is beyond me, cause clearly people will look to the battle.net chat logs as the scene grows... or private skype chats for that matter. This whole thread seems overly pointless. hell even in real sports during interviews players have been known to shit talk other players (albiet not with racist remarks, however this was cleared up quickly like any real sport would be).
Torte just being a baller and the OP scrambling, "BUT IDRA BUT IDRA".
And then having other people being thrown in like Spades (look! something that has been resolved!), and then JediGamer comes in and shows how the OP is a high school drama queen.
Also in professional sports, if they were to say something like that in public, they would be fined $20k or some shit like that. I'm pretty sure all athletes talk shit and say racial slurs. Everyone swears like a sailor, just most people don't really care unless its in a public setting with kids around, etc etc
"But why does nobody accept eSports D:" Well, if you ever asked yourself this question, read things like this.
People claiming that "eSports is just a bunch of nerds talking smack and playing games" have a valid point with this kind of stuff happening, because it happens often enough to be a problem.
I'm not judging anybody, as I think that the way hwangsin and spades handled the situation is good, but other examples show exactly how you should not deal with this and they just make things worse.
@JediGamer: I think you should just stop talking. Not because I think you did something bad / don't have a valid argument, but because I think you can only make things worse. Once people have their opinion, you can't stop them from having it.
I'm a BM player myself sometimes depending.. but i'll only go as far as saying 'faggot' or 'Fuck yourself'
Saying racial slurs is totally out of line (Especially if they are of that Race).. But i can understand that some players can be annoying at times and provoke such reactions.. Hopefully all parties are coming out of this without any animosity.
On September 25 2011 16:59 RoyalCheese wrote: Idk, i don't mind people being like this...especially if it's in channel on bnet...it would be something else if he said it to camera during mlg interview but whatever
I think people like you don't help the issue, maybe if shit like this wasn't accepted by the whole community, people woulnd't talk to each other like this.
Well, the thing is people like myself don't see it as an issue. Thus we don't really try to 'help it'
People say stupid shit all the time in real life. I don't see how it's different because it's on the internet or over a video game. The decent people will realise their mistakes, apologise, and take care not to repeat them, whilst the idiots will continue say dumb, extreme stuff without a care in the world. We just have to ignore them like we do in real life and let them shit all over themselves.
Oh cmon.... sure it was racist "gook" made me lol... I haven't heard such childish insults since the fifth grade... and "slap" as a physical threat? People just take shit too seriously... I actually found the comments on each other's play more offensive...
Yes, I'm Korean. When someone calls me a "gook" I just lol it off... Gook means country or soup... best insult ever? I think not...
This doesnt need to discussed, if you think calling someone asian a gook is ok. Thats fine. If you think it isn't ok. Thats fine.
Its language, get over it.
Now from the point of view of sponsorship, I would never sponsor him or his team unless he was ejected immediately for saying that in a game which at the highest level is dominated by asian players. Its bad business. VT obviously isnt a business.
Its real fucking simple. Stop posting every herp-a-derp thought that passes through your tiny mind.
On September 25 2011 16:26 BigBadBeaver wrote: The internet can be ridiculous like that. I've been told to kill myself multiple times on the ladder. I think playing terran has somethin to do with it. Damn racists..
And this guy you're talking to seems to have had issues before...
Ladder is one thing, and yes the guy im talking to has a ton of issues, but from more pro players who use language like this, should tournaments allow it? Personally I feel it should be a fine/dq if you use shit like that, it really needs to be cut down...
Maybe a dq if it really gets out of hand and one of the guys feel really hurt by it, otherwise I don't really see it being a too big of a problem tbh.
If there was microphones in players helmets in both hockey and football the people's, in this thread (presumably americans....), heads would explode from all the shit-talking. The problem with starcraft and other computer games there are allways records of what was said. This shit exists in every other sport, the problem in starcraft is that there is no way for it to be "private" since who ever gets BM'ed by a pro will printscreen it and post it here and on reddit in hopes to get upvotes and a small chance at stardom.
Blizzard has made squelch and blocking extremely easy with starcraft 2, I enjoy this feature in the game. Having played online RTS for ten years now, I am more at ease to ignore threats, and I am happy the I can avoid arguments whenever I please.
Younger players probably flame up a little more, or let themselves get into these situations do to their own level of maturity.
Another example of people making drama out of nothing. People get get mad when they lose and might say some things that they don't mean. Get over it. EVERYONE does it.
I personally just don't care, I mean I don't have any kind of ego, I'm even very social, so I just genuinely do not care about the opinion of someone over the internet unless they show reason for me to (intelligence, humour, etc). I have absolutely no problem with blocking communication someone who wants to troll, and I don't understand why other people do.
A large e-penis is all well and good but it's hard to fuck someone with it
In terms of a professional stand-point in front of spectators, its quite simple, teams wont hire them. They would lose so much publicity if a player threatens someone at a tourney or whatever, that the team would immediately let them go, they lose salary, they then either stop playing because they can't support themselves, or go 'clean' and earn their reputation back
I think its pretty sad that "its only the internet" and "he didn't really mean it" are being thrown around as excuses for rude behaviour. Gamers have an absolutely *terrible* reputation outside of their own circle for racism, sexism and all sorts of other nastiness. Luckily this doesn't apply to the professional gamers, who all seem very well behaved as far as I know.
On September 25 2011 21:44 lulzury wrote: People get get mad when they lose and might say some things that they don't mean. Get over it. EVERYONE does it.
No. They don't. Stop making excuses for those who do.
On September 25 2011 21:05 antikk555 wrote: Incredible what pass for discussion these days.
This doesnt need to discussed, if you think calling someone asian a gook is ok. Thats fine. If you think it isn't ok. Thats fine.
Its language, get over it.
Now from the point of view of sponsorship, I would never sponsor him or his team unless he was ejected immediately for saying that in a game which at the highest level is dominated by asian players. Its bad business. VT obviously isnt a business.
Its real fucking simple. Stop posting every herp-a-derp thought that passes through your tiny mind.
YEa how dare they discuss stuff in a forum !!!1111one!1
Sports or Esports it needs drama or it will be lame slow boring shit. Personally I love shittalk but hey Im Canadian and my fav sport is Hockey...hockey without fighting isnt hockey
On September 25 2011 22:48 Monkeyballs25 wrote: . Luckily this doesn't apply to the professional gamers, who all seem very well behaved as far as I know.
You'd be very surprised at what they say on ladder then.
On September 25 2011 16:25 Bonkerz wrote: nah but is behavoir like this acceptable from people who want to be proffesional players / profession players, how can we be taken seriously as a community if we have leaders in the scene talking like this (idra of course not jedi/syndicate)
The whole manner/professionalism drama in SC2 is really blown out of proporsion this game isn't a diner with the royal family I wonder if you people ever watched an actual sport on TV... Let me break it to you there is drama, insults and shit talk everywhere. In boxing/MMA its part of the meta game, in hockey you see it from players like Sean Avery constantly and even in soccer and baseball players fake injuries and find ways to injure opponents 'legally'. None of that is mannered in any way shape or form and those sports are still huge. If anything people like Idra bring more attention to the scene as demonstrated by the sheer size of his fan club and the amount of people who show up to watch him stream.
On September 25 2011 22:48 Monkeyballs25 wrote: . Luckily this doesn't apply to the professional gamers, who all seem very well behaved as far as I know.
You'd be very surprised at what they say on ladder then.
I probably would be. Stuff like Idra calling his opponents gay or retarded(I watched the youtube clip), or much worse?
Yeah it's really not that big of a deal comparatively. Nerds talk a big game, but I doubt you'll ever see a fight at MLG rofl. I can't remember a season of pro sports where there wasn't some sort of melee.
On September 25 2011 16:20 Bonkerz wrote: Here we go spades being racist and physical threat how can be taken seriously with this stuff going on? http://imgur.com/TQKVz
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote: Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.
On September 25 2011 17:13 RuMCaKe wrote: I have spoken with Spades, and as the manager of ItsGoSu, and a friend of RGN, and Spades as well. I know this is just a misunderstanding. Tempers flared, some wrong things were said, it happens. No hard feelings on our end, and I hope that people can let it go. People make mistakes, I know I sure do, and I am sure everyone else here does as well. No hard feelings!
Spades, lets have a beer at Orlando
What triggered this thread was that a semi pro/ high level terran on NA ladder on skype told me i should go kill myself which lead me to think about the question. The fact that we see pro players threatening each other when we as a community are still trying to gain legitimacy outside of the gaming world.
For our game what we love,to go to the next level, do we need people to mature. In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this because it is a THREAT, and over the interenet it is no different, I doubt that anybody would come up to my face and tell me to kill myself.
Yeah sorry if this has been discussed but i feel it's worth a thread, What do you guys think?
Bonkerz
Well, while I have never heard a pro athlete tell someone to go kill themselves, pro sports in general are littered with extreme amounts of trash talk. Ever played football? When you line up before the hut, multitudes of some of the worst shit you have ever heard is said between the teams. Usually involving raping the other (lols) Hockey, boxing, mma etc. Infact the only sports I can think of where not to much trash talk is involved is tennis and baseball, and for obvious reasons. Trash talk is apart the sport, not to say I agree with someone telling another to go kill themselves, but trust me. I have heard much much worse.
On September 25 2011 16:20 Bonkerz wrote: Here we go spades being racist and physical threat how can be taken seriously with this stuff going on? http://imgur.com/TQKVz
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote: Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.
Quote from Its Gosu Manager
On September 25 2011 17:13 RuMCaKe wrote: I have spoken with Spades, and as the manager of ItsGoSu, and a friend of RGN, and Spades as well. I know this is just a misunderstanding. Tempers flared, some wrong things were said, it happens. No hard feelings on our end, and I hope that people can let it go. People make mistakes, I know I sure do, and I am sure everyone else here does as well. No hard feelings!
Spades, lets have a beer at Orlando
What triggered this thread was that a semi pro/ high level terran on NA ladder on skype told me i should go kill myself which lead me to think about the question. The fact that we see pro players threatening each other when we as a community are still trying to gain legitimacy outside of the gaming world.
For our game what we love,to go to the next level, do we need people to mature. In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this because it is a THREAT, and over the interenet it is no different, I doubt that anybody would come up to my face and tell me to kill myself.
Yeah sorry if this has been discussed but i feel it's worth a thread, What do you guys think?
Bonkerz
Well, while I have never heard a pro athlete tell someone to go kill themselves, pro sports in general are littered with extreme amounts of trash talk. Ever played football? When you line up before the hut, multitudes of some of the worst shit you have ever heard is said between the teams. Usually involving raping the other (lols) Hockey, boxing, mma etc. Infact the only sports I can think of where not to much trash talk is involved is tennis and baseball, and for obvious reasons. Trash talk is apart the sport, not to say I agree with someone telling another to go kill themselves, but trust me. I have heard much much worse.
But what players say between themselevs is one thing, but doing it publically is another...
"I don't Play top Players, nor will I in the near future, It clearly States that I'm mid masters, this isn't intended for GM players, this is intended for those who aren't as good as you. And I realize that the zergs I play aren't as GOOD as the zergs you play."
I don't see how that makes me butthurt. I got on your stream today to learn instead the second i log into chat you called me a fucking baddy and I will never be as good as you, before I even said a WORD to you. Then you constantly blame every loss you got on ladder on your stream viewers ( hence why you will only ever have 5) I mean this thread isn't even about you anymore, I just faced the fact that you probably have had a bad childhood or some other psychological issue which makes you think that everyone is out to get you and you make up for it acting tough online
GG
Anyway the discussion about the pro scene still is open imo.
I think you took this way too seriously, you also failed to see the bigger picture, society is the problem, not the gamers, the scene or the athletes.
Let me put it blunt, this society we live in is shit, people like to trash talk each other to make themselves feel good, to cover up superiority complexes and what not, or to just straight up mess with the other guys mind.
And this is the norm in professional sports where rivalry and lots of money is on the line, people trash talk each other in some of the worst ways possible. Don't be surprised its springing up a bit in SC2, actually be glad its quite small right now in SC2 compared to other activities.
What exact rules do you want to set up, to govern what? This is a natural byproduct of our somewhat twisted society, you can try to suppress the problem but it won't go away. So long as this doesn't lead to actual physical harm it is ok, if something like this happens and both parties feel it was a mistake and apologize it is not so bad. I do believe MLG, NASL, IPL and other big names do have rules in place to prevent this kind of trash talk, just so you know, I actually read the rules for signing up to MLG to make sure.
Almost all of the SC2 pro gamers are smart enough to know that trash talking doesn't do them much good, and they have the discipline to control themselves in tournaments and to not lash out.
The final question is, what would you want this "governing body" to protect "you" from? If its bad manner and trash talk, I'm sorry but that will always exist in society to some extend and regardless of medium, be it vocal or internet. If you try to protect your children from it, tough luck, trough school, games, sports they will pick it up. What you need to do is teach your kids that, they can be exposed to shit like this, but they shouldn't respond the same way, and make them understand that trash talking and being bad mannered won't help them in the long run in society.
A lot of people will think my point of view is very cynical, but this is, in my opinion, the true face of society, don't hide from it, learn to deal with it.
I go all out when it comes to cussing and wishing bad things for my opponent on the ladder. But I don't type it out because I know I shouldn't do it. For some people it's just a way to quickly vent their anger while playing the game rather than bottling it up and actually go through with typing out some ridiculous stuff.
Pretty weird thing to do now that I think about it. What do you guys think? I'm basically sitting in my chair on skype with my friends telling them how I wish my opponent got hit by a car or accidentally runs over their 5 yr-old kid and vile stuff of that extent. I actually play better because my feelings aren't bottled up and I feel more motivated to try harder in the game. But at the same time I am not typing out ANY of it to my opponent so he'll never know.
I'm a nice guy irl too, I just know that you have to be an asshole at some point to get anywhere in life.
On September 25 2011 16:20 Bonkerz wrote: Here we go spades being racist and physical threat how can be taken seriously with this stuff going on? http://imgur.com/TQKVz
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote: Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.
Quote from Its Gosu Manager
On September 25 2011 17:13 RuMCaKe wrote: I have spoken with Spades, and as the manager of ItsGoSu, and a friend of RGN, and Spades as well. I know this is just a misunderstanding. Tempers flared, some wrong things were said, it happens. No hard feelings on our end, and I hope that people can let it go. People make mistakes, I know I sure do, and I am sure everyone else here does as well. No hard feelings!
Spades, lets have a beer at Orlando
What triggered this thread was that a semi pro/ high level terran on NA ladder on skype told me i should go kill myself which lead me to think about the question. The fact that we see pro players threatening each other when we as a community are still trying to gain legitimacy outside of the gaming world.
For our game what we love,to go to the next level, do we need people to mature. In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this because it is a THREAT, and over the interenet it is no different, I doubt that anybody would come up to my face and tell me to kill myself.
Yeah sorry if this has been discussed but i feel it's worth a thread, What do you guys think?
Bonkerz
Well, while I have never heard a pro athlete tell someone to go kill themselves, pro sports in general are littered with extreme amounts of trash talk. Ever played football? When you line up before the hut, multitudes of some of the worst shit you have ever heard is said between the teams. Usually involving raping the other (lols) Hockey, boxing, mma etc. Infact the only sports I can think of where not to much trash talk is involved is tennis and baseball, and for obvious reasons. Trash talk is apart the sport, not to say I agree with someone telling another to go kill themselves, but trust me. I have heard much much worse.
But what players say between themselevs is one thing, but doing it publically is another...
@jedigamer, you are the most immature and rude person i have ever met. If you guys actually go to my thread : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254879¤tpage=4 I respond to jedigamers response by saying "I don't Play top Players, nor will I in the near future, It clearly States that I'm mid masters, this isn't intended for GM players, this is intended for those who aren't as good as you. And I realize that the zergs I play aren't as GOOD as the zergs you play." I don't see how that makes me butthurt. I got on your stream today to learn instead the second i log into chat you called me a fucking baddy and I will never be as good as you, before I even said a WORD to you. Then you constantly blame every loss you got on ladder on your stream viewers ( hence why you will only ever have 5) I mean this thread isn't even about you anymore, I just faced the fact that you probably have had a bad childhood and you make up for it acting tough online
GG
Anyway the discussion about the pro scene still is open imo.
This whole entire thread is like one big personal vendetta and you stirring up a bunch of drama for no reason just because of your own personal beliefs, do you honestly think it is right of you to be the judicature of manner between pro / semi pro players? Why do you even let yourself care so much? IMO this thread has gone on to long and in my opinion it was just meant to stir up drama / put forth your own personal vendetta. GL but this is absolutely pointless beyond the spades / hwangsin drama that you happened to bring up.
As for this: Well I could go on and on but I´d prefer if players kept this out of the public eye. I mean I am by no means offended by this or anything but if they want to be seen as professionals worth of respect they should act like one instead of children. But oh well.
On September 25 2011 16:20 Bonkerz wrote: Here we go spades being racist and physical threat how can be taken seriously with this stuff going on? http://imgur.com/TQKVz
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote: Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.
Quote from Its Gosu Manager
On September 25 2011 17:13 RuMCaKe wrote: I have spoken with Spades, and as the manager of ItsGoSu, and a friend of RGN, and Spades as well. I know this is just a misunderstanding. Tempers flared, some wrong things were said, it happens. No hard feelings on our end, and I hope that people can let it go. People make mistakes, I know I sure do, and I am sure everyone else here does as well. No hard feelings!
Spades, lets have a beer at Orlando
What triggered this thread was that a semi pro/ high level terran on NA ladder on skype told me i should go kill myself which lead me to think about the question. The fact that we see pro players threatening each other when we as a community are still trying to gain legitimacy outside of the gaming world.
For our game what we love,to go to the next level, do we need people to mature. In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this because it is a THREAT, and over the interenet it is no different, I doubt that anybody would come up to my face and tell me to kill myself.
Yeah sorry if this has been discussed but i feel it's worth a thread, What do you guys think?
Bonkerz
Well, while I have never heard a pro athlete tell someone to go kill themselves, pro sports in general are littered with extreme amounts of trash talk. Ever played football? When you line up before the hut, multitudes of some of the worst shit you have ever heard is said between the teams. Usually involving raping the other (lols) Hockey, boxing, mma etc. Infact the only sports I can think of where not to much trash talk is involved is tennis and baseball, and for obvious reasons. Trash talk is apart the sport, not to say I agree with someone telling another to go kill themselves, but trust me. I have heard much much worse.
But what players say between themselevs is one thing, but doing it publically is another...
@jedigamer, you are the most immature and rude person i have ever met. If you guys actually go to my thread : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254879¤tpage=4 I respond to jedigamers response by saying "I don't Play top Players, nor will I in the near future, It clearly States that I'm mid masters, this isn't intended for GM players, this is intended for those who aren't as good as you. And I realize that the zergs I play aren't as GOOD as the zergs you play." I don't see how that makes me butthurt. I got on your stream today to learn instead the second i log into chat you called me a fucking baddy and I will never be as good as you, before I even said a WORD to you. Then you constantly blame every loss you got on ladder on your stream viewers ( hence why you will only ever have 5) I mean this thread isn't even about you anymore, I just faced the fact that you probably have had a bad childhood and you make up for it acting tough online
GG
Anyway the discussion about the pro scene still is open imo.
This whole entire thread is like one big personal vendetta and you stirring up a bunch of drama for no reason just because of your own personal beliefs, do you honestly think it is right of you to be the judicature of manner between pro / semi pro players? Why do you even let yourself care so much? IMO this thread has gone on to long and in my opinion it was just meant to stir up drama / put forth your own personal vendetta. GL but this is absolutely pointless beyond the spades / hwangsin drama that you happened to bring up.
It isn't even about jedi anymore i really tried to clarify that on the 3rd or 4th page some people can't read, what the real issue is that pro players even think that it's okay to say anything remotely close to each other in any type of public setting. How can that not worry you? Again from an outside perspective how does it look if grown men who are supposed to be professionals at the sport/game are giving each other threats when they lose. How stable do we look?
The game starts. Build a worker, split your workers properly, hotkey your main, type gl hf, press f11 and block communication.
That is how every game should start, unless you are playing with good friends. It doesn't matter if you're playing against Sheth or Combatex, that is what you do. Nothing good ever comes from talking trash in the game or in chats. Nothing.
There are a lot of immature people out there who are insecure. Don't be one of them and don't feed them.
On September 26 2011 00:20 BronzeKnee wrote: The game starts. Build a worker, split your workers properly, hotkey your main, type gl hf, press f11 and block communication.
That is how every game should start. Nothing good ever comes from talking trash in the game or in chats. Nothing.
There are a lot of immature people out there who are insecure. Don't be one of them.
On September 26 2011 00:21 Bonkerz wrote: Read the fucking thread.
On September 26 2011 00:20 BronzeKnee wrote:. There are a lot of immature people out there who are insecure.
Do I really need to say anything else?
This garbage feeds off attention. It is an attention based behavior. If you give it attention in anyway shape or form, you feed it. This thread is attention itself.
Is it ok for people to do that? Of course not, it isn't ok at all. Why did you even ask, it is a rhetorical question? But a lot of people out there are trash, dead beats, cheaters, and liars. The SC2 scene isn't any different. But the way you respond them to should be the same.
On September 26 2011 00:20 BronzeKnee wrote:. There are a lot of immature people out there who are insecure.
Do I really need to say anything else?
This garbage feeds off attention. It is an attention based behavior. If you give it attention in anyway shape or form, you feed it. This thread is attention itself.
Is it ok for people to do that? Of course not, it isn't ok at all. Why did you even ask, it is a rhetorical question. But a lot of people out there are trash, dead beats, cheaters, and liars. The SC2 scene isn't any different. But the way you respond them to should be the same.
Ignore them.
It's not about me, we are talking about the scene as a whole see the big red text at the bottom of the OP, read it...
On September 26 2011 00:21 Bonkerz wrote: Read the fucking thread.
On September 26 2011 00:20 BronzeKnee wrote:. There are a lot of immature people out there who are insecure.
Do I really need to say anything else?
This garbage feeds off attention. It is an attention based behavior. If you give it attention in anyway shape or form, you feed it. This thread is attention itself.
Is it ok for people to do that? Of course not, it isn't ok at all. Why did you even ask, it is a rhetorical question. But a lot of people out there are trash, dead beats, cheaters, and liars. The SC2 scene isn't any different. But the way you respond them to should be the same.
Ignore them.
It's not about me, we are talking about the scene as a whole see the big red text at the bottom of the OP, read it...
I didn't say it was. But I did say you weren't ignoring these people, because that is the proper response. You are giving them attention by asking the rhetorical question wondering if it ok to say extreme things. Obviously it isn't ok to behave like that, and should not be tolerated, but it exists.
Incontrol talks about this in regard to Combatex and explains it well:
On September 26 2011 00:21 Bonkerz wrote: Read the fucking thread.
On September 26 2011 00:20 BronzeKnee wrote:. There are a lot of immature people out there who are insecure.
Do I really need to say anything else?
This garbage feeds off attention. It is an attention based behavior. If you give it attention in anyway shape or form, you feed it. This thread is attention itself.
Is it ok for people to do that? Of course not, it isn't ok at all. Why did you even ask, it is a rhetorical question. But a lot of people out there are trash, dead beats, cheaters, and liars. The SC2 scene isn't any different. But the way you respond them to should be the same.
Ignore them.
It's not about me, we are talking about the scene as a whole see the big red text at the bottom of the OP, read it...
I didn't say it was. But I did say you weren't ignoring these people, because that is the proper response. You are giving them attention by asking a rhetorical question. Obviously it isn't ok to behave like that, and should not be tolerated, but it exists.
Incontrol talks about this in regard to Combatex and explains it well:
iNcontroL explains it well, but I'm not trying condone / give popularity to these types of people but rather don't we as a community need to take a stand against stuff like this from comming out of a pro players mouth, again I'll reiterate that we will NOT as a sport/game/community ever be taken seriously from an outside perspective until stuff like this stops happening.
Whatever Spades just has to lie low for a month or two and this won't even be a big deal. He will get probably spoken to by his manager to watch it and so forth.
On September 26 2011 00:21 Bonkerz wrote: Read the fucking thread.
On September 26 2011 00:20 BronzeKnee wrote:. There are a lot of immature people out there who are insecure.
Do I really need to say anything else?
This garbage feeds off attention. It is an attention based behavior. If you give it attention in anyway shape or form, you feed it. This thread is attention itself.
Is it ok for people to do that? Of course not, it isn't ok at all. Why did you even ask, it is a rhetorical question. But a lot of people out there are trash, dead beats, cheaters, and liars. The SC2 scene isn't any different. But the way you respond them to should be the same.
Ignore them.
It's not about me, we are talking about the scene as a whole see the big red text at the bottom of the OP, read it...
I didn't say it was. But I did say you weren't ignoring these people, because that is the proper response. You are giving them attention by asking a rhetorical question. Obviously it isn't ok to behave like that, and should not be tolerated, but it exists.
Incontrol talks about this in regard to Combatex and explains it well:
iNcontroL explains it well, but I'm not trying condone / give popularity to these types of people but rather don't we as a community need to take a stand against stuff like this from comming out of a pro players mouth, again I'll reiterate that we will NOT as a sport/game/community ever be taken seriously from an outside perspective until stuff like this stops happening.
Not trying and not doing are two different things. The community already doesn't put up with over the top "I'll shoot you" or any type of racial or people saying they should kill themselves. The community on the other hand understands that sometimes we type stuff that we don't mean at a later date...and an apology and some type of action is taken against that person. (not only action from teams and sponsors but their reputation being harmed).
Esports will legitimize itself if it has two legs to stand on and a strong community. One or two incidents of people saying stupid shit and trash talking other pros doesn't equal people not taking us serious. In the end these small things that seem big actually don't matter. You are making this something that it isn't.
Edit: What is your plan for stopping someone for expressing their opinion of another progamer? Where do you draw the line? We don't have the ability to foresee the future and stop them from committing the crimes you don't want them to, so any type of action is going to be reactive instead of proactive about the issue at hand.
I didn't believe in temporary insanity until just in the last couple years. Lately, I've seen normal rational fun loving people just go absolutely nuts for no "real" reason. I mean there will always be trolls and haters but I've seen what I consider decent human beings just go plain ape shit lately and say horrific things (worse than the image) over little barbs. Part of the problem is you are so focused on the game and when some "little thing" goes wrong say an ugly losing streak theres a need to lash out and express yourself in the most graphic way on the internet. Often now I've seen people get on the rage bus and just not get off for hours and they just spew out every and any offensive things come to mind. (Thank you for the ignore button battle.net)
Back to the question: Its a really bad habit to threaten bodily harm to others on the internet. Even though everyone knows you most likely will not go through with it. The issue is your brian "burns in" this kind of behavior and it becomes a more common mode of behavior that can easily resurface over similar insignificant triggers. Everyone gets mad once in a while but totally losing all inhibition and just saying horrible death threats over a non life or death computer eSport is way over the line. I'd recommend get up, take some chill pills, do some normal things that involve human social interaction and come back with a better mindset.
iNcontroL explains it well, but I'm not trying condone / give popularity to these types of people but rather don't we as a community need to take a stand against stuff like this from comming out of a pro players mouth, again I'll reiterate that we will NOT as a sport/game/community ever be taken seriously from an outside perspective until stuff like this stops happening.
I agree that we need to take a stand, and the way you can do that is simply not feed it to it by giving it any attention and by turning your back on people that do things like that. IdrA really put it well when he said that this is a computer game, not a dating show.
At the same time, there are plenty of NFL/NBA/whatever players who say things like this all the time off camera. And when caught they apologize and everything moves on. And look at the investors, they still pour money into it. Because making money is #1, even if it means supporting someone who isn't saying good things but demands a lot of attention and makes money from it. The same will hold true for Starcraft (and anything else).
I am pretty sure the consenus is that people shouldn't act like that. I am not sure exactly what we should do when people do say things like that in SC2, because there are a lot of immature and young players who will lose their temper and say dumb things. And the ones who are on big teams will have to apologize at the very least for it, but I am not sure if anything else needs to done.
It is definitely an interesting discussion and what to do with players who say inappropriate things, but if other sports give us any idea how the SC2 community should, it is make them apologize and move on.
I'm honestly just blown away that words like faggot, homo, retard, and others are still in use by modern highly sponsored players on professional teams. Can't imagine it will be acceptable much longer.
This is why we need a KESPA like organisation to govern Sc2. If Spades said things like that in a real sport he would be banned and black listed for life and rightly so.
Have people honestly forgotten that this is a game and trash talk is very common in competitive gaming? Who gives a fuck if it's unprofessional. Major tournaments that have rules should condone an amount of professionalism from all gamers, however, casual gaming in battle.net shouldn't matter if players BM or not even if they're a part of a sponsored clan. Look at idra, he bm's all day long and is still in EG.
On September 26 2011 01:01 Diamond wrote: I'm honestly just blown away that words like faggot, homo, retard, and others are still in use by modern highly sponsored players on professional teams. Can't imagine it will be acceptable much longer.
Once you become a SC2 progamer, you should literally unbecome a person.
Or not. They're still people, I don't see why SC2 progamers should pave the way for reformation of English vernacular.
On September 26 2011 01:04 Blasphemi wrote: This is why we need a KESPA like organisation to govern Sc2. If Spades said things like that in a real sport he would be banned and black listed for life and rightly so.
Blacklist - the worst punishment possible for a racist.
Oh for gods sake, this is nothing. It's just a nerd typing in caps to another nerd. Tempers tend to flare in competition; it's just the nature of it.
Once you've sit in the front row next to the glass at a hockey game, you'll know that people typing to others over the internet is really really mild. Mind you, it's still pretty classless, and the difference between sc2 and hockey is if you blast a racial slur to another player during a hockey game, you get your head punched in. There's no risk of that in sc2, so people run rampant. Look at deezer.
If any of you guys has played a sport competitively, such as baseball or football especially, you'll know that there is a lot of muttered trash talk that can get really really extreme in some cases. It's technically not allowed to happen at all, but it does happen all the time. The only difference in this case is that it was in a public forum (playhem chat channel) as opposed to muttered under their breath (in a private chat.) Of course it is unacceptable to use such racist terms in any way, but the manager of itsgosu seems to understand that people's tempers can get the better of them.
I guess the point that I'm trying to make here is that trash talk happens obviously, but it should be restricted in some cases, such as racial slurs in public chats. In my opinion, Spades should have been penalized in some way, like not being able to participate in the next playhem forum. But it is up to the tournament admins to make these judgements. Trash talk like that is not acceptable in a tournament setting, and that's really what this thread is about. The fine line between the "it's a game" argument and "it's a professional esport" really depends on the setting.
You wouldn't penalize a guy trash talking his friends or his opponents in a casual soccer league, but you would penalize a professional player in the world cup. It all comes down to setting.
Comparing 1v1 esports to 1v1 real sports, I find it strange there is so much BM I have never had anyone BM me in competitive tennis yet I did come across alot of people raging but it was never aimed at me same goes to if I were to rage it would never be aimed at the opp. I never had anyone walk off the court without a handshake.
And to address another argument being made on this thread, it's not that sc2 players should try to reform the english language into not cursing, it's that they should act in a manner that becomes a professional. In every sense of the word. When a businessman curses or uses a racial slur at his place of work, it's at the very least looked down upon in the community and at most warrants disciplinary action. I don't think that, just because it's the internet, professionals are licensed to say whatever they want. On forums dedicated to business and the like, people are very wary of posting anything offensive. You don't post racial slurs on your facebook because it will hurt your chances in a professional career.
So it's not like "hurr durr it's the internet what are you gonna do" is a valid argument in this case. This isn't 4chan guys, this is a platform for esports in the United States, and pro players just shouldn't be using such foul language all the time if there is to be more legitimacy surrounding esports. End of story.
On September 26 2011 01:01 Diamond wrote: I'm honestly just blown away that words like faggot, homo, retard, and others are still in use by modern highly sponsored players on professional teams. Can't imagine it will be acceptable much longer.
Once you become a SC2 progamer, you should literally unbecome a person.
Or not. They're still people, I don't see why SC2 progamers should pave the way for reformation of English vernacular.
" I don't see why SC2 progamers should pave the way for reformation of English vernacular."??? Are you serious? It's called being politically correct. All professional must be such or face the consequences.
On September 26 2011 01:01 Diamond wrote: I'm honestly just blown away that words like faggot, homo, retard, and others are still in use by modern highly sponsored players on professional teams. Can't imagine it will be acceptable much longer.
Once you become a SC2 progamer, you should literally unbecome a person.
Or not. They're still people, I don't see why SC2 progamers should pave the way for reformation of English vernacular.
Oh it's you again........ not getting sucked into your games again....
I dunno what it is about the sc2 community but you guys seem to make the biggest deal out of everything. So anytime any minor little everyday incident happens, there a 10+ page drama thread about how monstrous is it and how it's going to bring about the apocalypse.
This language debate that goes on should just remember a few things before it happens...if it happens.
People can be professional and still trash talk each other, there is a line to draw at some point...physical threats and racial slurs at the bare minimum.
Anything said outside of league play should be handled by managers of both teams along with the players like the spades and hwangsin incident.
I'm pretty sure most leagues already have rules in place for professionalism atleast in-game and some extent out of the game and on the stage.
Also, I'm sticking to my guns to say that there are always going to be minor incidents with people regretting what they said and apologizing. There is no actual way to proactively stop people from expressing there emotions, people are human and get frustrated and angry. I feel like I'm going in circles though, so I'm just going to let the thread die unless their is an actual full blown discussion.
RGN team seems to have the right idea. I personally don't think they are taking this too lightly. He outright said he was wrong and will apologize, and he also took to the right means of communication in all aspects. This is how shit gets done in a perfect world.
On September 26 2011 01:04 Blasphemi wrote: This is why we need a KESPA like organisation to govern Sc2. If Spades said things like that in a real sport he would be banned and black listed for life and rightly so.
you have absolutely no clue. if this would be the case countless football players would have been banned and blacklisted for insulting each other on the pitch. paulo di canio even got away showing the fascist salute several times during league games without any major consequences.
Report him to Blizzard, they have a tool for it. There are many (1-3 times / month) on the EU server that says "I hope you die of aids" if they lose. I don't know, but maybe its common stuff to say that in some countries.
On September 26 2011 01:01 Diamond wrote: I'm honestly just blown away that words like faggot, homo, retard, and others are still in use by modern highly sponsored players on professional teams. Can't imagine it will be acceptable much longer.
Once you become a SC2 progamer, you should literally unbecome a person.
Or not. They're still people, I don't see why SC2 progamers should pave the way for reformation of English vernacular.
" I don't see why SC2 progamers should pave the way for reformation of English vernacular."??? Are you serious? It's called being politically correct. All professional must be such or face the consequences.
Politically correct when they ladder? I don't think so. That's not a professional environment. Otherwise it'd be up to the people involved, and not the people on the internet to decide the correct course of action.
On September 26 2011 01:04 Blasphemi wrote: This is why we need a KESPA like organisation to govern Sc2. If Spades said things like that in a real sport he would be banned and black listed for life and rightly so.
no. thats fucking stupid, kespa would only hurt in a situation like this.
I've played soccer for many years and people have said pretty nasty stuff on the field...but it's part of the game. It's like that in most sports where people can talk to each other without referees judging them. To some extent I think it's part of the game, because it's taunting your adversary and trying to make him tilt. Yet I don't think those bad manners should carry out after the game. Never. No matter what is said during the game, it should always end with a 'gg' and no hard feelings.
funny to see all these people sitting behind the anonymity of their computers instructing others to grow some balls.
no it's not okay. blizzard policy also dictates it's not okay. don't spend your time making racial comments and threatening someone with violence at real events and proceed to try defend yourself on reddit crying that it's been taken out of context and that everyone else has boring lives. now he realizes this won't do and says he'll apologize
This thread is still open? If you're offended by online trash talking at all (be it between pros or in your own online convos) you most likely are a scronny nerd with self-esteem issues who needs to play a real sport (tennis was mentioned, that is for women) or go on psn to get over these issues.
I say Psn because I have heard the words "faggot" and "nigger" 1k+ times in games of cod, etc.
People who play sc2 are way too fucking sensitive lol. No matter how hard you try to make battle.net a professional environment. It isn't. And never will be. This wouldn't happen at live events because most of these sc2 pros would get dummied if they called another player a faggot. They are simply too scronny and nerdy to fight.
Cause I've Never seen Pro athletes swear in front of cameras, or say slurs, or commit MURDER, OR Illegally FIGHT DOGS to THE DEATH. Never. Cause PRO means perfect and absolute.
Seriously guys?
Don't play HoN or DotA if you think a little slur or two is "extreme".
On September 26 2011 01:57 JoeSchmoe wrote: funny to see all these people sitting behind the anonymity of their computers instructing others to grow some balls.
no it's not okay. blizzard policy also dictates it's not okay. don't spend your time making racial comments and threatening someone with violence at real events and proceed to try defend yourself on reddit crying that it's been taken out of context and that everyone else has boring lives. now he realizes this won't do and says he'll apologize
It's also against Blizzard's policy to MPQ edit. That must mean it's bad and we should never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever do it!
Obviously racial comments and violence are not on the same level, but adhering to Blizzard's set of rules because it's their rules is wrong. They make their rules to protect themselves, and protect their customers by proxy.
On September 26 2011 02:04 N3rV[Green] wrote: Cause I've Never seen Pro athletes swear in front of cameras, or say slurs, or commit MURDER, OR Illegally FIGHT DOGS to THE DEATH. Never. Cause PRO means perfect and absolute.
Seriously guys?
Pretty poor analogy given that there are severe penalties for all of the examples you give.
It's a stressful game. People have emotions and make mistakes. Of course it's "not okay", but it happens from time to time and you just have to apologize and move on.
On September 26 2011 01:56 Steel wrote: I've played soccer for many years and people have said pretty nasty stuff on the field...but it's part of the game. It's like that in most sports where people can talk to each other without referees judging them. To some extent I think it's part of the game, because it's taunting your adversary and trying to make him tilt. Yet I don't think those bad manners should carry out after the game. Never. No matter what is said during the game, it should always end with a 'gg' and no hard feelings.
There's a difference between team sports and individual sports though.
There's also a difference between top events (things like olympics and professional competitions) and lower tiered events.
I've got 2 examples, boxing, and tennis. Boxing is a sport where pure aggression is allowed, and almost adored by the fans. Seeing insults hurl during a press conference is quite entertaining although technically frowned upon at all levels. Although it's a LOT more common at lower levels of play.
And Tennis is almost the opposite, it's a relatively friendly gentlemans game. But even there at lower club levels of competitions, it isn't uncommon for people to not shake hands (equivalent of a GG) or even rage at the other player if they think they are playing unfairly.
I suppose the question raised by brining up those two examples, especially as SC2 and e-sports in general are relatively finding their feet is, should it be viewed as a friendly gentleman's competition, or a bare-knucled "hardcore" game?
Or hell, should it be considered as a thinking, quiet, strategy game like chess, where nothing but pure silence is expected (although I don't think that's possible with personalities like IdrA and iNcontroL out there.
TLDR: Don't compare a team sport (where one's actions can affect the result of an entire team) to an individual competition.
On September 26 2011 02:04 N3rV[Green] wrote: Cause I've Never seen Pro athletes swear in front of cameras, or say slurs, or commit MURDER, OR Illegally FIGHT DOGS to THE DEATH. Never. Cause PRO means perfect and absolute.
Seriously guys?
Pretty poor analogy given that there are severe penalties for all of the examples you give.
But why do we hold proplayers to a standard that we don't hold regular players? Because people pay attention to them? Because they get money for playing a video game? Progamers aren't superpeople, they're just regular people and should be subject to the same stipulation for playing SC2.
Funny thread. HSwins trolling is like... at the semi pro level. All that time not taking a third base has made his trolling go up 10 fold!!!
Really chris, there's no harm in BM. The people that mass game and GM just take a step back, and look at their lives. They'll never admit to living with their parents still. Never admit to their short comings. They're good at a video game, so just take the pill and swallow it.
Or, mr chris, just learn and get better, and play them. Like this GM zerg I played last night on the ladder. 25 minute game he's silent. I say gl hf sir, he's silent. He fag muta harasses after the game being OVER, well over as I killed his third, army, queens, and some OLs. Nope, he's zerg and thinks he has a chance. So I just play defensive, get my 4 bases, and butt rape him. He doesn't GG after a very nice game vs a 6-3, now 7-3 masters terran. His only response? Terran is an ez mode race noob lol
Just laugh it off. I msged him after, and heckled the SHIT out of him. None of these 'good players' like to lose to no names. It makes them get so butt hurt. Especially when you beat them with standard ass timings of marine tank lol. No drops at all, just straight up game. Remember it's a video game. We all play it to escape for a while. I'm a super nice guy, as you know, but I'll BM more than anyone if the time calls for it.
Just take a step back, and relax. Who cares what these assholes say on the internet. Does it matter? Are they winning at life? Probably not.
Or, get into smoking weed like I do. Someone BMs you, laugh it off as you get up, walk into the other room, and sit with your wife for a minute. It'll bring you right back to the state of life...
Get a good sense of humor. These people are jokes. Don't let it bother you, especially enough to make a thread like this.
On September 26 2011 01:04 Blasphemi wrote: This is why we need a KESPA like organisation to govern Sc2. If Spades said things like that in a real sport he would be banned and black listed for life and rightly so.
Are you serious? Do you watch sports? Players can throw punches and only get suspended a couple games and lightly fined.
Also I think that title is too broad, needs to actually mention Spades/Hwangsin
I remember seeing the comments on Reddit and it's as offensive as anything but I go to the stuff that professional athletes of other sports (football in particular) say to each other while on the field and in the heat of the moment. If someone has a pattern of lashing out like this in a (semi) public way then I would say it's unprofessional and the team should either punish or release the player but as an isolated event where the object of the scorn doesn't seem too upset I don't see the problem. In general though I view this as something that pro teams should try and keep to an absolute minimum. E-sports is this young, fragile thing that's still trying to shed its image of basement dwelling, homophobic cliche of the "hardcore gamer" (or the people who populate Halo Reach on Xbox Live) that shit like this just doesn't help.
hmm, it's one thing to have an outburst after a game, but some one who is supposed to be the "team captain" of a team associated with IGN should never have this level of maturity. It would have been bad enough if he called him bad/cheesy/whatever the normal bm is, but basically calling him out like that and even stooping so low as to threaten the kid at a live event is beyond intolerable.
That isn't a temporary lapse of judgement, good people don't say things like that.
On September 26 2011 02:22 NrG.NeverExpo wrote: hmm, it's one thing to have an outburst after a game, but some one who is supposed to be the "team captain" of a team associated with IGN should never have this level of maturity. It would have been bad enough if he called him bad/cheesy/whatever the normal bm is, but basically calling him out like that and even stooping so low as to threaten the kid as a live event is beyond intolerable.
That isn't a temporary lapse of judgement, good people don't say things like that.
In the end as I said its all about how the community wants to be seen, if they all want to be seen as manchilds that rage and hurl racial slurs because they lost in a game its Ok, but then we don´t get to ask for players being respected as pros when they act like childs.
Personally I don´t like when sponsored pro gamers act like a regular CoDer, its not a big deal but in the end if we all want the scene to be more professional they christ they should be more professional. As far as general ladder population, well its the same, if we want to be seen as rager kids then by all means keep acting like that.
I don´t really mind people BM me its stupid and petty and often I feel sorry for the guy but its perfectly valid to be concerned in how all of that reflects in our community.
I really dont understand why people always bash bad behaviour as destroying our "legitimacy". First off, in what magical world do you people live? Fist fights, threats and insults happen in professional sports. Secondly, how does that remove our legitimacy or hurt the scene? "You know bob I THOUGHT sc2 was the real deal, great commentaries, great gamees, endless strategies. BUT in fact one guy insulted another and I saw it, so I was totally wrong!!!". Unless it gets to hyperbolic levels, sponsors wont care either, as drama is something for people to fixate on. Look at Idra, constant drama, sponsors undoubtedly love him.
Death threats arent ok, but only because theres always that minority who will take it seriously and flip out, or alternatively attempt to sue or cause further problems when they actually know it wasnt serious. But outside of that? They're human, insults happen, I dont really care.
On September 26 2011 01:04 Blasphemi wrote: This is why we need a KESPA like organisation to govern Sc2. If Spades said things like that in a real sport he would be banned and black listed for life and rightly so.
Love how you just pulled that right out of your ass. I played semi-pro hockey for 5 years and if that was true most teams wouldn't have enough players left to actually field a line-up before mid season.
Competition creates tension, stress and frustration which easily leads to trash talk... notice how the people complaining about this are the fans / average joe's not the players themselves.
In other words deal with it or start watching/playing scrabble.
I used to be a 'meh' fan of Spades but after seeing this conversation with his racial slurs, I'm not quite a fan anymore. Hope he fixes this image of him soon..
On September 26 2011 01:57 JoeSchmoe wrote: funny to see all these people sitting behind the anonymity of their computers instructing others to grow some balls.
no it's not okay. blizzard policy also dictates it's not okay. don't spend your time making racial comments and threatening someone with violence at real events and proceed to try defend yourself on reddit crying that it's been taken out of context and that everyone else has boring lives. now he realizes this won't do and says he'll apologize
It's also against Blizzard's policy to MPQ edit. That must mean it's bad and we should never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever do it!
Obviously racial comments and violence are not on the same level, but adhering to Blizzard's set of rules because it's their rules is wrong. They make their rules to protect themselves, and protect their customers by proxy.
note how i said it's not okay before saying blizzard also says it's not okay.
On September 26 2011 01:57 JoeSchmoe wrote: funny to see all these people sitting behind the anonymity of their computers instructing others to grow some balls.
no it's not okay. blizzard policy also dictates it's not okay. don't spend your time making racial comments and threatening someone with violence at real events and proceed to try defend yourself on reddit crying that it's been taken out of context and that everyone else has boring lives. now he realizes this won't do and says he'll apologize
It's also against Blizzard's policy to MPQ edit. That must mean it's bad and we should never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever do it!
Obviously racial comments and violence are not on the same level, but adhering to Blizzard's set of rules because it's their rules is wrong. They make their rules to protect themselves, and protect their customers by proxy.
note how i said it's not okay before saying blizzard also says it's not okay.
You didn't say why until you mentioned it was against Blizzard's policy.
On September 26 2011 02:04 N3rV[Green] wrote: Cause I've Never seen Pro athletes swear in front of cameras, or say slurs, or commit MURDER, OR Illegally FIGHT DOGS to THE DEATH. Never. Cause PRO means perfect and absolute.
Seriously guys?
Pretty poor analogy given that there are severe penalties for all of the examples you give.
But why do we hold proplayers to a standard that we don't hold regular players? Because people pay attention to them? Because they get money for playing a video game? Progamers aren't superpeople, they're just regular people and should be subject to the same stipulation for playing SC2.
It makes sense for people who have greater influence to be held to higher standards. It has nothing to do with them being "superpeople." You say that as if it requires being extraordinary to not threaten others with physical violence. I would say that it merely requires being remotely civilized.
On September 26 2011 02:04 N3rV[Green] wrote: Cause I've Never seen Pro athletes swear in front of cameras, or say slurs, or commit MURDER, OR Illegally FIGHT DOGS to THE DEATH. Never. Cause PRO means perfect and absolute.
Seriously guys?
Pretty poor analogy given that there are severe penalties for all of the examples you give.
But why do we hold proplayers to a standard that we don't hold regular players? Because people pay attention to them? Because they get money for playing a video game? Progamers aren't superpeople, they're just regular people and should be subject to the same stipulation for playing SC2.
It makes sense for people who have greater influence to be held to higher standards. It has nothing to do with them being "superpeople." You say that as if it requires being extraordinary to not threaten others with physical violence. I would say that it merely requires being remotely civilized.
Suicide isn't an act of violence. If a pro player actually threatened violence, then they should be reported.
When it's your job or your profession I don't think it's appropiate to act however you want, deffinetly not that kind of bm. Are you casual I guess who cares? But also being BM like that hurts not only yourself but your team and your sponsors.
Blown way the fuck out of proportion. Two guys were at each other's throats on the internet. Big deal. I'd be another issue if it was at a tournament, but this is just two guys smack-talking on the internet. Maybe I'm just thick skinned because I'm Swedish, or because I can take and give shit and be perfectly fine after. Spades has stated that he got riled up and has apologised or is planning to.
On September 25 2011 16:32 Torte de Lini wrote: THE OP EDITED HIS TOPIC BECAUSE HIS ORIGINAL EXAMPLE AND ARGUMENT WASN'T VERY REPUTABLE
This is Jedigamer, he compensates for his insecurity by putting a front of obnoxious attacks towards other people (regardless if it is deemed or not).
He said himself he'd "turn over a new leaf", but shortly after, ruined it.
Don't give him more attention and don't use him as an example for anything relative or related. He gets angry and exerts it onto other people. It's not unusual for a lot of angry folks who take the game beyond serious or get too emotionally-tied to it.
Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? Especially a GROWN MAN to a highschooler (me) like for our game
Get off the soapbox.
I find this thread ironic really cause if this is really Jedigamer i just did a little research and i came upon this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=252268 thread which told me he was turning a new leaf and then someone posted this
i have no problem with it people talk shit all the time in other sports and players get in fights with other players so whats the difference? the community usually cant read the small chat log not like they were doing it through twitter or something
People don't need to mature, an organization has to handle how the professional side of E-sports should be fined for doing immature acts. Works in all other sports.
On September 26 2011 03:28 minisockey wrote: i have no problem with it people talk shit all the time in other sports and players get in fights with other players so whats the difference? the community usually cant read the small chat log not like they were doing it through twitter or something
there's no difference but um, "they did it first" doesn't actually mean it's a great way to behave.
professional players get ripped apart if they talk really bad shit to other players. players get shit for not shaking hands after playoff series (lebron james). football coaches have gotten complaints for not shaking hands after a game.
so... yeah other sports have bad elements. that's not a ticket for anyone who wants to be an ass whenever they feel like
On September 26 2011 01:57 JoeSchmoe wrote: funny to see all these people sitting behind the anonymity of their computers instructing others to grow some balls.
no it's not okay. blizzard policy also dictates it's not okay. don't spend your time making racial comments and threatening someone with violence at real events and proceed to try defend yourself on reddit crying that it's been taken out of context and that everyone else has boring lives. now he realizes this won't do and says he'll apologize
It's also against Blizzard's policy to MPQ edit. That must mean it's bad and we should never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever do it!
Obviously racial comments and violence are not on the same level, but adhering to Blizzard's set of rules because it's their rules is wrong. They make their rules to protect themselves, and protect their customers by proxy.
note how i said it's not okay before saying blizzard also says it's not okay.
You didn't say why until you mentioned it was against Blizzard's policy.
i thought it was quite obvious why calling someone a gook and threatening to pummel them irl is unacceptable. this is not even trash talk between 2 random nerds on the internet who will never see each other. they actually know one another in this case.
On September 26 2011 03:21 NrG.YuY wrote: my buddy picks up trash for a living, he must be a professional garbage collecter.
that would be right, it's funny cuz u think you're being clever or like funny or something, but it's just what it is
I'm a pro soccer player
Do you get paid for playing football, do you get a team uniform and training paid for by the team, have you signed a contract to play footballer for said team? If the answer to these questions is no than you aren't a pro footballer. And after this post, I'd suggest not answering this guy, as it's obvious he's being argumentative and not really trying to prove a point.
On September 25 2011 16:20 Bonkerz wrote: In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this
Not true
On September 25 2011 16:20 Bonkerz wrote: From an outside investor/sponsor what would make you think our community is professional
Professional respect comes from work, not from personality.
For some professions, image is part of the job. But public image isn't ever a true reflection of personality. And every profession where public image matters, there's a constant flow of terrible mistakes: politician, actor, musician, athlete. And yet they continue to have success because anyone can recover from almost anything. Even violent crime, like Michael Vick and Chris Brown. Drug abuse, racism, sexism, homophobia, betrayal of loved ones, etc, are all regularly overcome.
So while you can imagine an esports utopia where all players are civil and respectful at all times, it'll never be a reality. For sponsors and investors, it's a hazard of the business that they must do their best to avoid by picking their partners carefully. It's not the case that we can root it all out and grow faster. We're humans and this stuff just happens.
On September 25 2011 16:20 Bonkerz wrote: From an outside investor/sponsor what would make you think our community is professional
Professional respect comes from work, not from personality.
For some professions, image is part of the job. But public image isn't ever a true reflection of personality. And every profession where public image matters, there's a constant flow of terrible mistakes: politician, actor, musician, athlete. And yet they continue to have success because anyone can recover from almost anything. Even violent crime, like Michael Vick and Chris Brown. Drug abuse, racism, sexism, homophobia, betrayal of loved ones, etc, are all regularly overcome.
So while you can imagine an esports utopia where all players are civil and respectful at all times, it'll never be a reality. For sponsors and investors, it's a hazard of the business that they must do their best to avoid by picking their partners carefully. It's not the case that we can root it all out and grow faster. We're humans and this stuff just happens.
Does that mean we shouldn't have consistant rules when it comes to stuff like this. I feel that depending on teams to control their players is just a lil too believing, Why can't we have a 3rd party organization that can handle stuff (Not allow players in tournies, fines etc etc..) That is like again IGN+MLG+DH etc etc.....
threads like this make me sick. a person gets all cutsie fartsy about something someone said to them online. so they make a post about it on TL claiming that this is no personal vendetta but something that needs the attention of the entire planet.
the only reason why it came out into the public was because YOU (jedi whatever) made it public. Otherwise it was in a private channel for specific pros.
No one here can take you seriously and this topic is going to go nowhere when you ALSO do shit like this:
Which is hilarious because you complain in your OP....
What triggered this thread was that a semi pro/ high level terran on NA ladder on skype told me i should go kill myself which lead me to think about the question.The fact that we see pro players threatening each other when we as a community are still trying to gain legitimacy outside of the gaming world.
For our game what we love,to go to the next level, do we need people to mature. In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this because it is a THREAT, and over the interenet it is no different, I doubt that anybody would come up to my face and tell me to kill myself.
I would suggest you get your own players in SHAPE before you start throwing mud at others you hypocrite.
On September 26 2011 03:44 Golgotha wrote: threads like this make me sick. a person gets all cutsie fartsy about something someone said to them online. so they make a post about it on TL claiming that this is no personal vendetta but something that needs the attention of the entire planet.
the only reason why it came out into the public was because YOU (jedi whatever) made it public. Otherwise it was in a private channel for specific pros.
No one here can take you seriously and this topic is going to go nowhere when you ALSO do shit like this:
What triggered this thread was that a semi pro/ high level terran on NA ladder on skype told me i should go kill myself which lead me to think about the question.The fact that we see pro players threatening each other when we as a community are still trying to gain legitimacy outside of the gaming world.
For our game what we love,to go to the next level, do we need people to mature. In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this because it is a THREAT, and over the interenet it is no different, I doubt that anybody would come up to my face and tell me to kill myself.
I deleated pretty much everything about me and jedi in OP i really don't want it to be about me or him. His actions just kinda made me wonder..
On September 26 2011 03:44 Golgotha wrote: threads like this make me sick. a person gets all cutsie fartsy about something someone said to them online. so they make a post about it on TL claiming that this is no personal vendetta but something that needs the attention of the entire planet.
the only reason why it came out into the public was because YOU (jedi whatever) made it public. Otherwise it was in a private channel for specific pros.
No one here can take you seriously and this topic is going to go nowhere when you ALSO do shit like this:
Which is hilarious because you complain in your OP....
What triggered this thread was that a semi pro/ high level terran on NA ladder on skype told me i should go kill myself which lead me to think about the question.The fact that we see pro players threatening each other when we as a community are still trying to gain legitimacy outside of the gaming world.
For our game what we love,to go to the next level, do we need people to mature. In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this because it is a THREAT, and over the interenet it is no different, I doubt that anybody would come up to my face and tell me to kill myself.
I deleated pretty much everything about me and jedi in OP i really don't want it to be about me or him. His actions just kinda made me wonder..
Even your other example about spades is kind of weak and doesn't really showcase the point you tried to make.
On September 26 2011 03:44 Golgotha wrote: threads like this make me sick. a person gets all cutsie fartsy about something someone said to them online. so they make a post about it on TL claiming that this is no personal vendetta but something that needs the attention of the entire planet.
the only reason why it came out into the public was because YOU (jedi whatever) made it public. Otherwise it was in a private channel for specific pros.
No one here can take you seriously and this topic is going to go nowhere when you ALSO do shit like this:
Which is hilarious because you complain in your OP....
What triggered this thread was that a semi pro/ high level terran on NA ladder on skype told me i should go kill myself which lead me to think about the question.The fact that we see pro players threatening each other when we as a community are still trying to gain legitimacy outside of the gaming world.
For our game what we love,to go to the next level, do we need people to mature. In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this because it is a THREAT, and over the interenet it is no different, I doubt that anybody would come up to my face and tell me to kill myself.
I deleated pretty much everything about me and jedi in OP i really don't want it to be about me or him. His actions just kinda made me wonder..
Even your other example about spades is kind of weak and doesn't really showcase the point you tried to make.
The point i'm making is that there isn't a consistent set of rules to stop stuff like this saying "O their team will handle it" Won'd cut it forever, there needs to be public repercussions taken.
No matter what the activity is, we have even seen in the most professional atmospheres that huge media celebrities and "professional athletes" have spoken and acted out of line. Shaq and Tiger Woods are just two perfect examples of international superstars worth billions of dollars in salaries, endorsements, sponsorships, etc., and they have brought down their fans, communities, and respective sports to tremendous levels.
The way I see this is really simple: we are all HUMAN. If you want to act perfect and not cause a public disturbance by expressing emotions that are uncontrollable, then great. However, the truth is, we are not perfect, and there will be outbursts and spurts of anger. It's totally normal and I don't see any problem with it. Drama sucks, but the occasional drama isn't actually that bad, because it gives people a reason to "sober up", if you will.
On September 26 2011 03:44 Golgotha wrote: threads like this make me sick. a person gets all cutsie fartsy about something someone said to them online. so they make a post about it on TL claiming that this is no personal vendetta but something that needs the attention of the entire planet.
the only reason why it came out into the public was because YOU (jedi whatever) made it public. Otherwise it was in a private channel for specific pros.
No one here can take you seriously and this topic is going to go nowhere when you ALSO do shit like this:
Which is hilarious because you complain in your OP....
What triggered this thread was that a semi pro/ high level terran on NA ladder on skype told me i should go kill myself which lead me to think about the question.The fact that we see pro players threatening each other when we as a community are still trying to gain legitimacy outside of the gaming world.
For our game what we love,to go to the next level, do we need people to mature. In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this because it is a THREAT, and over the interenet it is no different, I doubt that anybody would come up to my face and tell me to kill myself.
I deleated pretty much everything about me and jedi in OP i really don't want it to be about me or him. His actions just kinda made me wonder..
Even your other example about spades is kind of weak and doesn't really showcase the point you tried to make.
The point i'm making is that there isn't a consistent set of rules to stop stuff like this saying "O their team will handle it" Won'd cut it forever, there needs to be public repercussions taken.
How about we don't worry about this shit until there actually is an instance that can actually execute what you are suggesting? Suggesting anything like that now is pointless and fruitless. This thread will not lead to anything except alot of nobodies arguing with eachother. What was said was also not severe enough to warrant a thread.
On September 26 2011 03:44 Golgotha wrote: threads like this make me sick. a person gets all cutsie fartsy about something someone said to them online. so they make a post about it on TL claiming that this is no personal vendetta but something that needs the attention of the entire planet.
the only reason why it came out into the public was because YOU (jedi whatever) made it public. Otherwise it was in a private channel for specific pros.
No one here can take you seriously and this topic is going to go nowhere when you ALSO do shit like this:
Which is hilarious because you complain in your OP....
What triggered this thread was that a semi pro/ high level terran on NA ladder on skype told me i should go kill myself which lead me to think about the question.The fact that we see pro players threatening each other when we as a community are still trying to gain legitimacy outside of the gaming world.
For our game what we love,to go to the next level, do we need people to mature. In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this because it is a THREAT, and over the interenet it is no different, I doubt that anybody would come up to my face and tell me to kill myself.
I deleated pretty much everything about me and jedi in OP i really don't want it to be about me or him. His actions just kinda made me wonder..
Even your other example about spades is kind of weak and doesn't really showcase the point you tried to make.
The point i'm making is that there isn't a consistent set of rules to stop stuff like this saying "O their team will handle it" Won'd cut it forever, there needs to be public repercussions taken.
Except there is, it's called common courtesy and the basics that all tournament organizations put in place.
I said this before, you just ignore it.
Threatening of life and racial slurs are common rules even outside of StarCraft II. The public repercussion plays itself out as word gets out.
Of course it looks terrible for Esports to have things like this go on in a professional setting, but what more can you do? Hwangsin is known for being cheesy, and probably has more than a few enemies notched on his belt. Spades' skill is subpar, at the moment couldn't win a major tourney even if his life depended on it, and can't refrain from using racial slurs because his "temper tantrum" (GOOBYGOOGOO) got the best of him. They are both immature people and immature pro-gamers. So what? Why shouldn't either of them be allowed to tarnish his own reputation if he wants to?
I can't really even blame either of em for reacting the ways they did, but just goes to show the both of them don't have the gall to take wins or losses like professionals, and that SC2 and Esports as a whole has a long way to go.
On September 25 2011 16:20 Bonkerz wrote: From an outside investor/sponsor what would make you think our community is professional
Professional respect comes from work, not from personality.
For some professions, image is part of the job. But public image isn't ever a true reflection of personality. And every profession where public image matters, there's a constant flow of terrible mistakes: politician, actor, musician, athlete. And yet they continue to have success because anyone can recover from almost anything. Even violent crime, like Michael Vick and Chris Brown. Drug abuse, racism, sexism, homophobia, betrayal of loved ones, etc, are all regularly overcome.
So while you can imagine an esports utopia where all players are civil and respectful at all times, it'll never be a reality. For sponsors and investors, it's a hazard of the business that they must do their best to avoid by picking their partners carefully. It's not the case that we can root it all out and grow faster. We're humans and this stuff just happens.
Those people continue to have some semblance of success because people cling and stick their heads into the sand believing their star/idol is a saint. Like a woman to an abusive boyfriend.
Maybe they don't go dirt poor the next day, but to say it doesn't hurt them and everyone will just forget tomorrow what they did is wrong.
On September 25 2011 17:53 iloveAthene wrote: 2 white guys calling each other the N word is not anywhere near the same league as what Spades said. Has Destiny taught us nothing? It's the thoughts behind the words and not the words themselves. And in Spades' case the thoughts seem pretty obvious.
Besides, this was a tourney where Spades was representing RGN, not a ladder game
How can you interpret the thoughts behind a single line of text? Tell me what i can do for you to make you happy? I've apologized publicly, I've apologized to HwangSin on a skype call, everything is fine in the world, but you apparently think I'm the modern day Starcraft 2 Hitler. I apologize to anyone who was offended, I said this in a chat channel with about 30 people in it. I didn't say this on stream, i didnt post this all over the internet, my intentions were never to insult anyone outside HwangSin, which was clearly a lapse in composure, and I apologized. HwangSin and I, have both apologized to eachother for our argument on a skype call, and we have moved on with no hard feelings. I have no issue with HwangSin, or the asian community whatsoever, and again I apologize if you were offended.
There's very little you can do to make me happy. I don't care that you apologized, I don't care that GoSu has accepted your apology. To me none of that matters. You called HwangSin a gook, and that has, in my mind, irrevocably and eternally made you unworthy of my fandom. The differences between you and IdrA are simple: IdrA does not spit racial slurs at people, and IdrA is flat-out better than you, so he can back up his trash-talk.
Until you start pumping out better results than IdrA, or until you become nicer than Sheth, you will be the villain at every tournament at which you compete to me, and nothing more. I wish you nothing but the worst luck in StarCraft.
On September 25 2011 17:53 iloveAthene wrote: 2 white guys calling each other the N word is not anywhere near the same league as what Spades said. Has Destiny taught us nothing? It's the thoughts behind the words and not the words themselves. And in Spades' case the thoughts seem pretty obvious.
Besides, this was a tourney where Spades was representing RGN, not a ladder game
How can you interpret the thoughts behind a single line of text? Tell me what i can do for you to make you happy? I've apologized publicly, I've apologized to HwangSin on a skype call, everything is fine in the world, but you apparently think I'm the modern day Starcraft 2 Hitler. I apologize to anyone who was offended, I said this in a chat channel with about 30 people in it. I didn't say this on stream, i didnt post this all over the internet, my intentions were never to insult anyone outside HwangSin, which was clearly a lapse in composure, and I apologized. HwangSin and I, have both apologized to eachother for our argument on a skype call, and we have moved on with no hard feelings. I have no issue with HwangSin, or the asian community whatsoever, and again I apologize if you were offended.
There's very little you can do to make me happy. I don't care that you apologized, I don't care that GoSu has accepted your apology. To me none of that matters. You called HwangSin a gook, and that has, in my mind, irrevocably and eternally made you unworthy of my fandom. The differences between you and IdrA are simple: IdrA does not spit racial slurs at people, and IdrA is flat-out better than you, so he can back up his trash-talk.
Until you start pumping out better results than IdrA, or until you become nicer than Sheth, you will be the villain at every tournament at which you compete to me, and nothing more. I wish you nothing but the worst luck in StarCraft.
Idra regularly uses words like "faggot". Is that alright with you?
On September 26 2011 03:55 gulati wrote: No matter what the activity is, we have even seen in the most professional atmospheres that huge media celebrities and "professional athletes" have spoken and acted out of line. Shaq and Tiger Woods are just two perfect examples of international superstars worth billions of dollars in salaries, endorsements, sponsorships, etc., and they have brought down their fans, communities, and respective sports to tremendous levels.
The way I see this is really simple: we are all HUMAN. If you want to act perfect and not cause a public disturbance by expressing emotions that are uncontrollable, then great. However, the truth is, we are not perfect, and there will be outbursts and spurts of anger. It's totally normal and I don't see any problem with it. Drama sucks, but the occasional drama isn't actually that bad, because it gives people a reason to "sober up", if you will.
Uncontrollable? Don't lump the rest of us into people who can't control themselves.
On September 25 2011 17:53 iloveAthene wrote: 2 white guys calling each other the N word is not anywhere near the same league as what Spades said. Has Destiny taught us nothing? It's the thoughts behind the words and not the words themselves. And in Spades' case the thoughts seem pretty obvious.
Besides, this was a tourney where Spades was representing RGN, not a ladder game
How can you interpret the thoughts behind a single line of text? Tell me what i can do for you to make you happy? I've apologized publicly, I've apologized to HwangSin on a skype call, everything is fine in the world, but you apparently think I'm the modern day Starcraft 2 Hitler. I apologize to anyone who was offended, I said this in a chat channel with about 30 people in it. I didn't say this on stream, i didnt post this all over the internet, my intentions were never to insult anyone outside HwangSin, which was clearly a lapse in composure, and I apologized. HwangSin and I, have both apologized to eachother for our argument on a skype call, and we have moved on with no hard feelings. I have no issue with HwangSin, or the asian community whatsoever, and again I apologize if you were offended.
There's very little you can do to make me happy. I don't care that you apologized, I don't care that GoSu has accepted your apology. To me none of that matters. You called HwangSin a gook, and that has, in my mind, irrevocably and eternally made you unworthy of my fandom. The differences between you and IdrA are simple: IdrA does not spit racial slurs at people, and IdrA is flat-out better than you, so he can back up his trash-talk.
Until you start pumping out better results than IdrA, or until you become nicer than Sheth, you will be the villain at every tournament at which you compete to me, and nothing more. I wish you nothing but the worst luck in StarCraft.
Idra regularly uses words like "faggot". Is that alright with you?
Sounds like both Spades and Hwangsin acted like immature little kids in this incident. Spades, it's good that you apologized and I hope you have learned your lesson not to ever use racial slurs like that seriously no matter how angry you are.
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote: Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.
I truly hope so, every time something like this happens it hurts the scene.
Jesus what he said was stupid but stop with this holier than thou, "good for the scene" shit. You're not who he should be talking to about this.
On September 25 2011 17:53 iloveAthene wrote: 2 white guys calling each other the N word is not anywhere near the same league as what Spades said. Has Destiny taught us nothing? It's the thoughts behind the words and not the words themselves. And in Spades' case the thoughts seem pretty obvious.
Besides, this was a tourney where Spades was representing RGN, not a ladder game
How can you interpret the thoughts behind a single line of text? Tell me what i can do for you to make you happy? I've apologized publicly, I've apologized to HwangSin on a skype call, everything is fine in the world, but you apparently think I'm the modern day Starcraft 2 Hitler. I apologize to anyone who was offended, I said this in a chat channel with about 30 people in it. I didn't say this on stream, i didnt post this all over the internet, my intentions were never to insult anyone outside HwangSin, which was clearly a lapse in composure, and I apologized. HwangSin and I, have both apologized to eachother for our argument on a skype call, and we have moved on with no hard feelings. I have no issue with HwangSin, or the asian community whatsoever, and again I apologize if you were offended.
There's very little you can do to make me happy. I don't care that you apologized, I don't care that GoSu has accepted your apology. To me none of that matters. You called HwangSin a gook, and that has, in my mind, irrevocably and eternally made you unworthy of my fandom. The differences between you and IdrA are simple: IdrA does not spit racial slurs at people, and IdrA is flat-out better than you, so he can back up his trash-talk.
Until you start pumping out better results than IdrA, or until you become nicer than Sheth, you will be the villain at every tournament at which you compete to me, and nothing more. I wish you nothing but the worst luck in StarCraft.
people do much worse than call others racial slurs in this world. maybe western society has convinced you otherwise. that is sad.
self-righteous bitches with agendas...beware! We can't even say gook while referring to someone saying it?...isn't that immature. Racial slurrrr...herp derp.
On September 25 2011 17:53 iloveAthene wrote: 2 white guys calling each other the N word is not anywhere near the same league as what Spades said. Has Destiny taught us nothing? It's the thoughts behind the words and not the words themselves. And in Spades' case the thoughts seem pretty obvious.
Besides, this was a tourney where Spades was representing RGN, not a ladder game
How can you interpret the thoughts behind a single line of text? Tell me what i can do for you to make you happy? I've apologized publicly, I've apologized to HwangSin on a skype call, everything is fine in the world, but you apparently think I'm the modern day Starcraft 2 Hitler. I apologize to anyone who was offended, I said this in a chat channel with about 30 people in it. I didn't say this on stream, i didnt post this all over the internet, my intentions were never to insult anyone outside HwangSin, which was clearly a lapse in composure, and I apologized. HwangSin and I, have both apologized to eachother for our argument on a skype call, and we have moved on with no hard feelings. I have no issue with HwangSin, or the asian community whatsoever, and again I apologize if you were offended.
There's very little you can do to make me happy. I don't care that you apologized, I don't care that GoSu has accepted your apology. To me none of that matters. You called HwangSin a gook, and that has, in my mind, irrevocably and eternally made you unworthy of my fandom. The differences between you and IdrA are simple: IdrA does not spit racial slurs at people, and IdrA is flat-out better than you, so he can back up his trash-talk.
Until you start pumping out better results than IdrA, or until you become nicer than Sheth, you will be the villain at every tournament at which you compete to me, and nothing more. I wish you nothing but the worst luck in StarCraft.
Idra regularly uses words like "faggot". Is that alright with you?
Haha, not any different than "asshole" or similar. I know some people think it somehow relates to a slur against homosexuals, but often times it's not. South Park episode comes to mind.
On September 25 2011 17:53 iloveAthene wrote: 2 white guys calling each other the N word is not anywhere near the same league as what Spades said. Has Destiny taught us nothing? It's the thoughts behind the words and not the words themselves. And in Spades' case the thoughts seem pretty obvious.
Besides, this was a tourney where Spades was representing RGN, not a ladder game
How can you interpret the thoughts behind a single line of text? Tell me what i can do for you to make you happy? I've apologized publicly, I've apologized to HwangSin on a skype call, everything is fine in the world, but you apparently think I'm the modern day Starcraft 2 Hitler. I apologize to anyone who was offended, I said this in a chat channel with about 30 people in it. I didn't say this on stream, i didnt post this all over the internet, my intentions were never to insult anyone outside HwangSin, which was clearly a lapse in composure, and I apologized. HwangSin and I, have both apologized to eachother for our argument on a skype call, and we have moved on with no hard feelings. I have no issue with HwangSin, or the asian community whatsoever, and again I apologize if you were offended.
There's very little you can do to make me happy. I don't care that you apologized, I don't care that GoSu has accepted your apology. To me none of that matters. You called HwangSin a gook, and that has, in my mind, irrevocably and eternally made you unworthy of my fandom. The differences between you and IdrA are simple: IdrA does not spit racial slurs at people, and IdrA is flat-out better than you, so he can back up his trash-talk.
Until you start pumping out better results than IdrA, or until you become nicer than Sheth, you will be the villain at every tournament at which you compete to me, and nothing more. I wish you nothing but the worst luck in StarCraft.
people do much worse than call others racial slurs in this world. maybe western society has convinced you otherwise. that is sad.
What you just said makes no sense at all. He never said a racial slur is the worst thing you can say to anybody, but he is right in that Spades is talking about of shit that he can't back up. What's worse is that hes getting racial about it, probably because he's just an insecure douche.
People getting worked up over this one racial slur is stupid. It's obvious he didn't mean it, he was just angry and in the moment probably not thinking straight. Does this mean he's a douchebag? Yes. Yes it does.
Who cares, it's fkn Spades lol. And ofc if pro-gamers were acting like this in a profesional environment such as MLG or DreamHack etc, there should be repercussions (see professionalism etc.) but honestly, this is such a minor issue that it shouldn't even be addressed. This isn't the first time someone has gotten out of line outside their professional line of work, I mean he's talking sh*t on bnet of all places, i'm sure you can dig up many cases where professional athletes or celebrities were completely out of line when they were caught drunk or something, because hey guess what? they're people too and they may not be the nicest or the smartest of people out there.. this fake image they need to put on at all times is stupid.
How long have you owned an internet? You've got to be new here...
It's hard to raise your voice via text so people have to use some way to incite seriousness. Being more profane, insulting gender, ethnicity, sexuality, etc. Check it out:
On September 26 2011 05:51 Sinensis wrote: How long have you owned an internet? You've got to be new here...
It's hard to raise your voice via text so people have to use some way to incite seriousness. Being more profane, insulting gender, ethnicity, sexuality, etc. Check it out:
I can understand getting angry if your livelihood is attached to the game like Spades and Hwangsin but for Random Master's #153625 to start screaming at me in game ... I just find it kind of amusing, tbh. Not like either of us are good enough for balance to even matter.
On September 26 2011 05:51 Sinensis wrote: How long have you owned an internet? You've got to be new here...
It's hard to raise your voice via text so people have to use some way to incite seriousness. Being more profane, insulting gender, ethnicity, sexuality, etc. Check it out:
Swearing is used in place of tone of voice in order to "shout."
What the fuck? Are you serious?
I don't know, people talk like that all the time. I guess I'm just used to it, not that I approve. I mean honestly anyone could be drunk or disoriented one night and slip up. Happens all the time IRL too. People shouldn't be so upset, it doesn't even seem like either of their feelings are hurt.
On September 26 2011 03:44 Golgotha wrote: threads like this make me sick. a person gets all cutsie fartsy about something someone said to them online. so they make a post about it on TL claiming that this is no personal vendetta but something that needs the attention of the entire planet.
the only reason why it came out into the public was because YOU (jedi whatever) made it public. Otherwise it was in a private channel for specific pros.
No one here can take you seriously and this topic is going to go nowhere when you ALSO do shit like this:
What triggered this thread was that a semi pro/ high level terran on NA ladder on skype told me i should go kill myself which lead me to think about the question.The fact that we see pro players threatening each other when we as a community are still trying to gain legitimacy outside of the gaming world.
For our game what we love,to go to the next level, do we need people to mature. In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this because it is a THREAT, and over the interenet it is no different, I doubt that anybody would come up to my face and tell me to kill myself.
I would suggest you get your own players in SHAPE before you start throwing mud at others you hypocrite.
I'm not the OP.... Did you really type all of that on a wrong assumption. FAIL!
small edit: nineteen had it coming. I 3-0'd him prior to that loss and every game he said "Terran is overpowered" and kept blaming my race for the win. Then he distracts me by literally crying in the middle of the game and I decided its time to turn on the fancy rants.
You are a moron. I'm embarrassed that your country says Canada on tl.
Oh he meant that as an insult? I thought he was just pointing people towards a useful thread, or was making a point about how civil people over there were being over a normally contentious issue.
I'm just glad the low level EU ladder has next to no trash talk, I guess everyone's more relaxed about their games there
I'm sorry, and maybe it's just me... but I feel like the people who post these type of threads are (in a completely different way) just as bad as Spades with his BM to HwangSin.
I mean what are you trying to accomplish by posting this? Either you want another argument to erupt from people being offended from what was said to HwangSin, or... you just like stirring up e-drama.
On September 26 2011 03:44 Golgotha wrote: threads like this make me sick. a person gets all cutsie fartsy about something someone said to them online. so they make a post about it on TL claiming that this is no personal vendetta but something that needs the attention of the entire planet.
the only reason why it came out into the public was because YOU (jedi whatever) made it public. Otherwise it was in a private channel for specific pros.
No one here can take you seriously and this topic is going to go nowhere when you ALSO do shit like this:
Which is hilarious because you complain in your OP....
What triggered this thread was that a semi pro/ high level terran on NA ladder on skype told me i should go kill myself which lead me to think about the question.The fact that we see pro players threatening each other when we as a community are still trying to gain legitimacy outside of the gaming world.
For our game what we love,to go to the next level, do we need people to mature. In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this because it is a THREAT, and over the interenet it is no different, I doubt that anybody would come up to my face and tell me to kill myself.
I would suggest you get your own players in SHAPE before you start throwing mud at others you hypocrite.
I'm not the OP.... Did you really type all of that on a wrong assumption. FAIL!
small edit: nineteen had it coming. I 3-0'd him prior to that loss and every game he said "Terran is overpowered" and kept blaming my race for the win. Then he distracts me by literally crying in the middle of the game and I decided its time to turn on the fancy rants.
Then you should have taken the loss, knowing you already 3-0'd (I guess 3-1) the kid and gone on with your life. Instead of turning into an XBox Live child.
I have a question: is manner muling BM? Koreans in the GSL do it basically every game, from what I see, but when I tried doing it today, the guy got really pissed off at me and raged. I didn't mean to be an asshole, I just wanted to say "I won, you lost, please leave the game" in a polite fashion, without saying it outright. Whenever I get manner muled, I don't feel offended and just accept it as my opponent telling me to leave the game already and GG out, but is it actually an insult? Cause I don't wanna be BM, I just wanna let people know the game is over.
On September 26 2011 06:16 kofman wrote: I have a question: is manner muling BM? Koreans in the GSL do it basically every game, from what I see, but when I tried doing it today, the guy got really pissed off at me and raged. I didn't mean to be an asshole, I just wanted to say "I won, you lost, please leave the game" in a polite fashion, without saying it outright. Whenever I get manner muled, I don't feel offended and just accept it as my opponent telling me to leave the game already and GG out, but is it actually an insult? Cause I don't wanna be BM, I just wanna let people know the game is over.
You know how IdrA types "get out" to people?
That's what manner mules mean. Terran just doesn't have to type it xD
On September 25 2011 16:20 Bonkerz wrote: In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this
Not true
On September 25 2011 16:20 Bonkerz wrote: From an outside investor/sponsor what would make you think our community is professional
Professional respect comes from work, not from personality.
For some professions, image is part of the job. But public image isn't ever a true reflection of personality. And every profession where public image matters, there's a constant flow of terrible mistakes: politician, actor, musician, athlete. And yet they continue to have success because anyone can recover from almost anything. Even violent crime, like Michael Vick and Chris Brown. Drug abuse, racism, sexism, homophobia, betrayal of loved ones, etc, are all regularly overcome.
So while you can imagine an esports utopia where all players are civil and respectful at all times, it'll never be a reality. For sponsors and investors, it's a hazard of the business that they must do their best to avoid by picking their partners carefully. It's not the case that we can root it all out and grow faster. We're humans and this stuff just happens.
Those people continue to have some semblance of success because people cling and stick their heads into the sand believing their star/idol is a saint. Like a woman to an abusive boyfriend.
Maybe they don't go dirt poor the next day, but to say it doesn't hurt them and everyone will just forget tomorrow what they did is wrong.
yeah, look at Michael Richards. His career is over.
On September 26 2011 06:16 kofman wrote: I have a question: is manner muling BM? Koreans in the GSL do it basically every game, from what I see, but when I tried doing it today, the guy got really pissed off at me and raged. I didn't mean to be an asshole, I just wanted to say "I won, you lost, please leave the game" in a polite fashion, without saying it outright. Whenever I get manner muled, I don't feel offended and just accept it as my opponent telling me to leave the game already and GG out, but is it actually an insult? Cause I don't wanna be BM, I just wanna let people know the game is over.
You know how IdrA types "get out" to people?
That's what manner mules mean. Terran just doesn't have to type it xD
I know that, but I think its less rude than "get out". It's like giving someone a dirty look rather than going up to them and punching them in the face.
On September 26 2011 06:16 kofman wrote: I have a question: is manner muling BM? Koreans in the GSL do it basically every game, from what I see, but when I tried doing it today, the guy got really pissed off at me and raged. I didn't mean to be an asshole, I just wanted to say "I won, you lost, please leave the game" in a polite fashion, without saying it outright. Whenever I get manner muled, I don't feel offended and just accept it as my opponent telling me to leave the game already and GG out, but is it actually an insult? Cause I don't wanna be BM, I just wanna let people know the game is over.
You know how IdrA types "get out" to people?
That's what manner mules mean. Terran just doesn't have to type it xD
I know that, but I think its less rude than "get out". It's like giving someone a dirty look rather than going up to them and punching them in the face.
Manner muling is basically an offensive GG which is BM also
if you start with the rascist shit after losing a game, as a pro/semi pro player you should get heavily punished for it by your team/sponsor. being mad is no excuse for being a rascist, saying sorry doesn't make up for it
On September 26 2011 06:16 kofman wrote: I have a question: is manner muling BM? Koreans in the GSL do it basically every game, from what I see, but when I tried doing it today, the guy got really pissed off at me and raged. I didn't mean to be an asshole, I just wanted to say "I won, you lost, please leave the game" in a polite fashion, without saying it outright. Whenever I get manner muled, I don't feel offended and just accept it as my opponent telling me to leave the game already and GG out, but is it actually an insult? Cause I don't wanna be BM, I just wanna let people know the game is over.
You know how IdrA types "get out" to people?
That's what manner mules mean. Terran just doesn't have to type it xD
I know that, but I think its less rude than "get out". It's like giving someone a dirty look rather than going up to them and punching them in the face.
Manner muling is basically an offensive GG which is BM also
Manner mules are like neural parasited CCs, it's part of the game. It's more like a taunt, which is different from actual BM. The same goes for using /dance to make your units dance, and post-game cermonies. Also please note that taunt moves are present in a lot of games besides Sc2; fighting games and mmorpgs come to mind. It's entirely different from actual insults and other similar BM behaviors.
It's very important to distinguish the "BM" from the "taunts". For example MC doing a throat slicing move to Idra is a taunt, Idra flipping MC off is BM. This is applicable in other games too; in TF2 if I perform a taunt with my Medigun after a kill (especially when I kill spies): it's a taunt, hence the name. But if I say "learn to play you nigger free to play noob", then it's actual BM.
On September 26 2011 06:38 MisterTea wrote: if you start with the rascist shit after losing a game, as a pro/semi pro player you should get heavily punished for it by your team/sponsor. being mad is no excuse for being a rascist, saying sorry doesn't make up for it
Exactly! Especially when the racial slur is paired with a physical threat.
On September 25 2011 17:53 iloveAthene wrote: 2 white guys calling each other the N word is not anywhere near the same league as what Spades said. Has Destiny taught us nothing? It's the thoughts behind the words and not the words themselves. And in Spades' case the thoughts seem pretty obvious.
Besides, this was a tourney where Spades was representing RGN, not a ladder game
How can you interpret the thoughts behind a single line of text? Tell me what i can do for you to make you happy? I've apologized publicly, I've apologized to HwangSin on a skype call, everything is fine in the world, but you apparently think I'm the modern day Starcraft 2 Hitler. I apologize to anyone who was offended, I said this in a chat channel with about 30 people in it. I didn't say this on stream, i didnt post this all over the internet, my intentions were never to insult anyone outside HwangSin, which was clearly a lapse in composure, and I apologized. HwangSin and I, have both apologized to eachother for our argument on a skype call, and we have moved on with no hard feelings. I have no issue with HwangSin, or the asian community whatsoever, and again I apologize if you were offended.
There's very little you can do to make me happy. I don't care that you apologized, I don't care that GoSu has accepted your apology. To me none of that matters. You called HwangSin a gook, and that has, in my mind, irrevocably and eternally made you unworthy of my fandom. The differences between you and IdrA are simple: IdrA does not spit racial slurs at people, and IdrA is flat-out better than you, so he can back up his trash-talk.
Until you start pumping out better results than IdrA, or until you become nicer than Sheth, you will be the villain at every tournament at which you compete to me, and nothing more. I wish you nothing but the worst luck in StarCraft.
people do much worse than call others racial slurs in this world. maybe western society has convinced you otherwise. that is sad.
What you just said makes no sense at all. He never said a racial slur is the worst thing you can say to anybody, but he is right in that Spades is talking about of shit that he can't back up. What's worse is that hes getting racial about it, probably because he's just an insecure douche.
what i said makes sense if you look at how worked up he is over a few words that have no real impact on either player or the games they played. i think it's ok to disapprove of what spades said. getting all preachy on a forum about something like this just seems weird unless you really think this kind of topic merits the time it takes to pour so much anger and thought into your posts.
On September 26 2011 06:16 kofman wrote: I have a question: is manner muling BM? Koreans in the GSL do it basically every game, from what I see, but when I tried doing it today, the guy got really pissed off at me and raged. I didn't mean to be an asshole, I just wanted to say "I won, you lost, please leave the game" in a polite fashion, without saying it outright. Whenever I get manner muled, I don't feel offended and just accept it as my opponent telling me to leave the game already and GG out, but is it actually an insult? Cause I don't wanna be BM, I just wanna let people know the game is over.
You know how IdrA types "get out" to people?
That's what manner mules mean. Terran just doesn't have to type it xD
I know that, but I think its less rude than "get out". It's like giving someone a dirty look rather than going up to them and punching them in the face.
Manner muling is basically an offensive GG which is BM also
Manner mules are like neural parasited CCs, it's part of the game. It's more like a taunt, which is different from actual BM. The same goes for using /dance to make your units dance, and post-game cermonies. Also please note that taunt moves are present in a lot of games besides Sc2; fighting games and mmorpgs come to mind. It's entirely different from actual insults and other similar BM behaviors.
It's very important to distinguish the "BM" from the "taunts". For example MC doing a throat slicing move to Idra is a taunt, Idra flipping MC off is BM. This is applicable in other games too; in TF2 if I perform a taunt with my Medigun after a kill (especially when I kill spies): it's a taunt, hence the name. But if I say "learn to play you nigger free to play noob", then it's actual BM.
IMO "Taunt" and "BM" aren't really a mutually exclusive. If you get teabagged in Halo, you know the guy's intentions isn't really to taunt you to kill him as much as it is to tell you how much you suck. Manner mules and dancing are part of the game, but they are used to convey messages that if translated in words, would not be nearly as tolerated for the sake of "taunt".
A player that constantly drop manner mule will lose respect from me. A certain amount of it is fun and good for the scene, but there is a limit between arrogance and confidence that's easy to cross.
No it absolutely not okay to say that stuff and it sounds like he is sorry. If e-sports is going to get big the professionals are going to have to become more professional. That is all there is to it. Many of the pro players are on the right track and that is great! However it only takes one person to ruin the image of a whole team/ community.
This thread has gotten out of control. I think that we can all agree that racial slurs and words like "faggot" and "retard" are very offensive and should not be ignored without some sort of consequence to professional players in a public forum.
Pro players should act classy and shouldn't be complete racist, homophobic and all around intolerant tools. In general, people agree that you can't say those words in the real world, and just saying "durr it's the internet" doesn't really change anything when the forum is so public and linked to actual, important events.
I understand that there was likely some serious BM going on there. And quite frankly with how HwangSin was speaking I am never going to support him as a player ever. That kind of behavior is childish and has no place in E-Sports.
Having said that, none of that is an excuse for Spades' behavior, which was many orders of magnitude worse. Sorry does not make up for that kind of language and the fact that he is saying things like that should be of serious concern to Reign as a team.
Both players are wrong here and I have lost a considerable amount of respect for both of them to be honest. Even if you're the best in the world you don't get to behave like that, acting like that is simply not something that should be rewarded.
Competitive professional sports comes to mind when thinking about players and trash talk. For instance, hockey players/coaches are constantly yelling at each other and saying the most derogatory things that they can to each other in an effort to gain a psychological edge over their opponent. Society at large puts up with it, they certainly don't take enough offence to it that it jeopardizes the sport. In high level competition of any kind, you get exceptionally competitive people and I think tempers flaring is only natural.
Also, more directly to this issue, Spades was angry at the player, not the race. Racism is a problem to me when someone is targeted specifically because they fit a profile, but in this case, a 'racial slur' was used the other way around. I can't believe anyone would want to classify Spades as a problematic racist over this. Spades already said he was sorry, I don't see a point in prolonging the drama with a thread such as this, its probably hurting e-sports (albeit still completely insignificantly) more than Spades ever did.
On September 26 2011 06:04 Oreo7 wrote: Bonkerz, I hit you on ladder in the past and you bm'd me so I find this all a little hilarious.
But yes, we should all be manner, and yes, we will make mistakes.
Nooo..... the "scene".... this can't be good for it! Somebody stop him before its too late!
How did you take that away from what I said at all?
Haypro hacking is very disputable btw, I forget the exact circumstances but apparently the bot he was using was something you use when you obs games/watch replays and he accidentally left it on or something.
TT1 and Spades on the other hand intentionally hacked repeatedly, along with a bunch of other kids.
On September 26 2011 03:44 Golgotha wrote: threads like this make me sick. a person gets all cutsie fartsy about something someone said to them online. so they make a post about it on TL claiming that this is no personal vendetta but something that needs the attention of the entire planet.
the only reason why it came out into the public was because YOU (jedi whatever) made it public. Otherwise it was in a private channel for specific pros.
No one here can take you seriously and this topic is going to go nowhere when you ALSO do shit like this:
Which is hilarious because you complain in your OP....
What triggered this thread was that a semi pro/ high level terran on NA ladder on skype told me i should go kill myself which lead me to think about the question.The fact that we see pro players threatening each other when we as a community are still trying to gain legitimacy outside of the gaming world.
For our game what we love,to go to the next level, do we need people to mature. In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this because it is a THREAT, and over the interenet it is no different, I doubt that anybody would come up to my face and tell me to kill myself.
I would suggest you get your own players in SHAPE before you start throwing mud at others you hypocrite.
I'm not the OP.... Did you really type all of that on a wrong assumption. FAIL!
small edit: nineteen had it coming. I 3-0'd him prior to that loss and every game he said "Terran is overpowered" and kept blaming my race for the win. Then he distracts me by literally crying in the middle of the game and I decided its time to turn on the fancy rants.
you really have poor reasoning. Who cares if you beat him 3-0 prior to thatt, ladder score doesn't mean much. If someone is annoying you on ladder because they are QQing, the ignore button is a good skill toi have
On September 25 2011 16:20 Bonkerz wrote: In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this
Not true
On September 25 2011 16:20 Bonkerz wrote: From an outside investor/sponsor what would make you think our community is professional
Professional respect comes from work, not from personality.
For some professions, image is part of the job. But public image isn't ever a true reflection of personality. And every profession where public image matters, there's a constant flow of terrible mistakes: politician, actor, musician, athlete. And yet they continue to have success because anyone can recover from almost anything. Even violent crime, like Michael Vick and Chris Brown. Drug abuse, racism, sexism, homophobia, betrayal of loved ones, etc, are all regularly overcome.
So while you can imagine an esports utopia where all players are civil and respectful at all times, it'll never be a reality. For sponsors and investors, it's a hazard of the business that they must do their best to avoid by picking their partners carefully. It's not the case that we can root it all out and grow faster. We're humans and this stuff just happens.
Those people continue to have some semblance of success because people cling and stick their heads into the sand believing their star/idol is a saint. Like a woman to an abusive boyfriend.
Maybe they don't go dirt poor the next day, but to say it doesn't hurt them and everyone will just forget tomorrow what they did is wrong.
Just to be clear, this guy isn't disagreeing with anything I said.
On September 26 2011 06:20 iloveAthene wrote: yeah, look at Michael Richards. His career is over.
He voluntarily quit doing stand-up so we'll never know if he could still do stand-up unless he chooses to try again. But as for his career, he's gotten/kept three jobs since the 2006 incident: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0724245/
And the aftermath of his racism is an example of how the world enables professional recovery from such an incident. David Letterman and Jesse Jackson both gave him time on their shows to apologize. If the world simply damned him and shunned him, it'd be much more difficult. But I don't know if anyone gets that treatment. I imagine they'd have to do something incredibly extreme like rape or murder...
On September 26 2011 09:14 SolveN wrote: Competitive professional sports comes to mind when thinking about players and trash talk. For instance, hockey players/coaches are constantly yelling at each other and saying the most derogatory things that they can to each other in an effort to gain a psychological edge over their opponent. Society at large puts up with it, they certainly don't take enough offence to it that it jeopardizes the sport. In high level competition of any kind, you get exceptionally competitive people and I think tempers flaring is only natural.
Also, more directly to this issue, Spades was angry at the player, not the race. Racism is a problem to me when someone is targeted specifically because they fit a profile, but in this case, a 'racial slur' was used the other way around. I can't believe anyone would want to classify Spades as a problematic racist over this. Spades already said he was sorry, I don't see a point in prolonging the drama with a thread such as this, its probably hurting e-sports (albeit still completely insignificantly) more than Spades ever did.
On September 25 2011 16:20 Bonkerz wrote: In other sports such as baseball or football, people dont say shit like this
Not true
On September 25 2011 16:20 Bonkerz wrote: From an outside investor/sponsor what would make you think our community is professional
Professional respect comes from work, not from personality.
For some professions, image is part of the job. But public image isn't ever a true reflection of personality. And every profession where public image matters, there's a constant flow of terrible mistakes: politician, actor, musician, athlete. And yet they continue to have success because anyone can recover from almost anything. Even violent crime, like Michael Vick and Chris Brown. Drug abuse, racism, sexism, homophobia, betrayal of loved ones, etc, are all regularly overcome.
So while you can imagine an esports utopia where all players are civil and respectful at all times, it'll never be a reality. For sponsors and investors, it's a hazard of the business that they must do their best to avoid by picking their partners carefully. It's not the case that we can root it all out and grow faster. We're humans and this stuff just happens.
Those people continue to have some semblance of success because people cling and stick their heads into the sand believing their star/idol is a saint. Like a woman to an abusive boyfriend.
Maybe they don't go dirt poor the next day, but to say it doesn't hurt them and everyone will just forget tomorrow what they did is wrong.
Just to be clear, this guy isn't disagreeing with anything I said.
On September 26 2011 06:20 iloveAthene wrote: yeah, look at Michael Richards. His career is over.
He voluntarily quit doing stand-up so we'll never know if he could still do stand-up unless he chooses to try again. But as for his career, he's gotten/kept three jobs since the 2006 incident: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0724245/
And the aftermath of his racism is an example of how the world enables professional recovery from such an incident. David Letterman and Jesse Jackson both gave him time on their shows to apologize. If the world simply damned him and shunned him, it'd be much more difficult. But I don't know if anyone gets that treatment. I imagine they'd have to do something incredibly extreme like rape or murder...
You're absolutely right. The public can be very forgiving, too forgiving in some instances. It mostly has to do with the person's talent or level of fame. Michael Vick should still be in prison imo. I mean shit look at OJ. Roman Polanski is a piece of trash rapist who's been on the run for 30 years and people still kiss his ass. Don Imus is back on the air after losing his job for racial remarks about black women. I'm not saying what Imus did comes anywhere close to the other three btw, just thought I'd add him in.
And yeah Michael Richards "voluntarily" quit stand up. He wasn't banned by the ruling commission lol but nevertheless I'd still say that incident ended his stand up career. If he would've been a top tier stand up comedian I'd certainly say the chances he'd still be touring would be much greater. Who knows, maybe he'll comeback.
Trash talking and foul language are perfectly normal in competitive sports. I play several sports, and it is a part of the game. However, personal insults are always off limits, and everyone understands this. There is a big difference between "haha you suck man" and "I hope your family dies". If you play competitive sports you'll understand that the former is acceptable to a certain degree (of course one should not go overboard) and the latter is just asking for a fight. Trash talking occurs in all professional sports, all the time, by almost every player. The only difference is the public never hears what they talk about unless they say it in public (e.g. during a press conference). Unfortunately for progamers, everything they type is seen by everyone watching the game. No point trash talking your opponent to yourself right? :p
tl;dr some trash talking is part of sports, but no personal insults pls.
It's obviously not "okay," but since those involved realize and acknowledge as much, and provided that it doesn't become a recurring problem with any of them, I don't think we need to make a federal case out of it.
On September 26 2011 15:13 HwangSin wrote: Formally apologize.
It is my fault.. and I dont want fight with many people..
and in the future , i will never blame to player.
in the future, If i get that problems again
To be in a good way to finish...
I'll promise.
Never trolling to player and Never blame to player...
Again Im so sorry...
My english is so bad.. please understand my mind..T_T
That apology is so much more sincere than anything I've read from Spades and you didn't even really do anything wrong HwangSin.
edit: and yeah trash talk is part of any pro sport. But if you say "fuck you you fucking n*gg*r" to a black guy on the opposing team there's gonna be a whole lot of trouble
Both players said they're sorry, stop trying to crucify them, mods should really lock this thread as it just has developed into the Spades camp, Hwangsin camp, and the petty arguments between JediGamer and bros.
What so many posters try to ignore is that almost all pro-gamers are athletes in a certain sense of the word. They are under a lot of pressure and their emotions almost always run high when they are playing (either winning or loosing).
Yes in a perfect happy world such incidents wouldn't happen, but frankly ours isn't perfect and the pro gamers are only human as well. If you look at western sports (frankly i don't know enough about asian cultures to comment on those) you'll find tons of similar or worse incidents all over the place.
Usually they are fined if they do something like this on live TV or their sponsors force them to apologize but thats about it.
It's fine to in-game taunt/BM (manner mules, manner nexuses, etc.) but what Spades said was utterly disgusting. It showed an ugly side of him and he will be remembered - and rightly so, since his career as a progamer can barely even be called mediocre - for it.
On September 26 2011 12:48 harhar! wrote: i dont see whats wrong with a little bm and racism. i mwan he obviously doesnt mean it, so who cares...
Ok, whatever, you Jew-killing Nazi. Hope you're not offended, because I don't really mean it. Nazi.
You clearly have never seen pro sports players trash talk each other, throw punches, etc. Spades would never think about doing that shit in person and I don't think anyone ever will. People say whatever they want behind their computers, can't believe you actually think it's a "threat"
Anyways, I would like to see Hwangsin kick his ass in the game at MLG
These guys are jokes and not pro's at all. The amount of supposed 'professionals' that have turned up in the SC2 scene is laughable. I hate the over-emphasis on foreign scene now, foreign scene total nobodies as well with probably like 1000 people better than them on kr ladder.
The problem is that this kind of talk is the norm for casual gamers, and so it just sticks with you when you go professional. The behavior as an anonymous gamer on the net just doesn´t go well with spectator sports. If you´ve always teabagged the dead corpses of your enemy, then it gets a bit awkward when presented with a cup of hot water.
The solution? They just need to learns some manners.
Doesn´t the Korean tournament disqualify players for BM? If the NASL gave a loss to anyone being threatening or insulting in the chat, then they´d stop it.
There is shit talking in all sports period. It's apart of it, plenty of it is in public. Do you see Mayweather or Soennen losing sponsors coz they talk mad shit? Dennis Rodman was known as a massive shit talker, think he lost sponsors?
No
There will always be shit talk, it doesn't deter people. Infact, drama of any type draws more in. Not that I agree with WHAT WAS SAID.
PS: This thread, is a form of shit talking, by extending the shit talk session with a screenshot. Let's be honest, Spades is a real person, who gets angry like us all. (Once again, not that I agree with WHAT WAS SAID) But haven't we all said some shit out of anger that we shouldn't have or regret?
Yes
On September 25 2011 17:13 RuMCaKe wrote: I have spoken with Spades, and as the manager of ItsGoSu, and a friend of RGN, and Spades as well. I know this is just a misunderstanding. Tempers flared, some wrong things were said, it happens. No hard feelings on our end, and I hope that people can let it go. People make mistakes, I know I sure do, and I am sure everyone else here does as well. No hard feelings!
Spades, lets have a beer at Orlando
It had already been dealt with, appologized, and moved on by both parties. I am confused as to why this thread even exsists? Just to pour salt on a wound? This seems kinda petty IMO and a mod should just close this.
How is this even a big deal? There's much more important things in the world to worry about than someone getting passed off and raging over a lose. The majority of gamers get angry when they lose big deal.
RGNSpades shameful example portraying us foreigners to a Korean player like hwangsin. Can't believe he stooped low enough to racist remarks and saying he'd assault him at MLG etc..
It'sGosu has cheesy players like Hwangsin Wbc and Gatored.. but still no reason to rage like that the guys got issues.
I'd put money on Hwangsin over Spaddles any day...
On September 26 2011 12:48 harhar! wrote: i dont see whats wrong with a little bm and racism. i mwan he obviously doesnt mean it, so who cares...
I hope this is sarcasm from harhar!. And if it is sarcasm, I don't find it funny. I have followed and refrained from posting in this thread but it's comments like these that push me over the edge.
In the context of the United States, racism has been institutionalized. We still witness structural disadvantages for minority groups, including women, who, despite "equality between the sexes" earn less than men for doing the same jobs. Racism isn't just about the language we use. It's about the history of disenfranchisement and the many methods that dominant groups belittle, oppress, and repress marginalized groups.
In the contemporary moment, one of the primary ways that racism functions is through the perpetuation of negative stereotypes. These stereotypes are routinely delivered in the form, "I'm not racist, but...". The "but" is followed by an outright racist sentiment or stereotype. Here's link to the work of these sociologists on the "I'm not racist, but" phenomenon: http://www.sociology.emory.edu/downloads/bonilla-silva_forman_2000_i\'m_not_a_racist_but.pdf
In Spades case, he wrote an outright racial slur. I understand the "heat of the moment" argument. I understand the "people shit talk in sports" argument. It happens. So apologies are in order. I am all for these situation being resolved through apology. But it is a radicalized comment. It can't simply be excused because of the context or because of some people want to ignore the racial content.
Furthermore, in SCII, we are dealing with the phenomenon of the written word. Shit TALK goes in one ear and out the other to the extent that it is not recorded. With SCII, shit talk is often WRITTEN and the shit talker leaves behind a written record.
Imo, this written record only increases the burden on pros to be professional and to recognize the magnitude of the heat of the moment.
As hate crime legislation continues to develop in the United States, we see a greater emphasis on taking people's motivations into account when they commit violent crimes. These motivations are measured, in part, by evidence of their racist tendencies.Take, for instance, the recent branding of a Navajo man in New Mexico, and the running-over of a black man in Mississippi. Both of these crimes were committed by white men/adolescents. Both of these are being prosecuted as hate crimes, and in both cases, the authorities have looked to the past of the assailants to gauge their racist tendencies. In doing so, they LOOK AT THE WORDS THAT PEOPLE USE as evidence of their capacity to commit a hate crime.
tl;dr The fact the Spades would threaten violence and use a racial slur in the heat of the moment pushes a button that is not limited to sports and the SCII world. Rather, violence and racism are part of the pulse of the contemporary American attempt to re-evaluate crimes with regard to the level of racist-pre-meditation. Verbal threats and racial slurs begin to establish one as having the capacity to commit a hate crime. This isn't simply me being sensitive. This is the direction of U.S. law in the contemporary moment.
On September 27 2011 07:53 awu25 wrote: You clearly have never seen pro sports players trash talk each other, throw punches, etc. Spades would never think about doing that shit in person and I don't think anyone ever will. People say whatever they want behind their computers, can't believe you actually think it's a "threat"
Anyways, I would like to see Hwangsin kick his ass in the game at MLG
That's precisely the problem. SCII pros are facing a new standard to the extent that the game is played on a larger and increasingly public stage, and to the extent that written in-game/chat messages leave a trail of evidence behind. In other words, the technology of SCII partially demands a reevaluation of the potential effects of shit talk to the extent that the community often has access to chat material...especially when it is uttered in a public forum.
Yes, shit-talk will continue. But the quality of the shit talk--racist vs non-racist--and the extent to which violent threats are uttered--are going to keep pushing buttons.
tl;dr If SCII continues to maintain its current popularity or to grow larger, I don't think this excuse--they are just raging behind their computers--will remain legitimate. We are seeing this very mentality challenged and the burden of the professional, imo, is to recognize that they can't hold onto such an immature way of thinking. Shit talk, but realize that, to the extent it is being recorded, you are likely going to be held responsible the morning after.
Its funny that Esports seem to be the only sports where manners are regarded so highly. Click the spoiler for a look at some of sports biggest trash talkers.
http://www.askmen.com/top_10/sports_100/148_fitness_list.html #10 Mike Tyson #9 Deion Sanders #8 Juan Pablo Montoya #7 Charles Barkley #6 Floyd Mayweather, Jr. #5 Gary Payton #4 Shannon Sharpe #3 Larry Bird #2 Michael Jordan #1 Muhammad Ali
Michael Jordan In the ‘80s and ‘90s, trash talking was high art, and Michael Jordan was the king of the castle. In a game against the Denver Nuggets, Jordan stepped to the foul line and told rookie Dikembe Mutombo that he would shoot the free throw with his eyes closed. Before he did, he looked at Mutombo and said, “This one’s for you.” Then he closed his eyes, hit the shot and told Mutombo, “Welcome to the NBA.”
Throughout his career, Jordan craved a psychological edge, and trash talking helped him see opponents as potential victims that he could demoralize by winning both the game and the war of words. Most importantly, there was always a purpose to Jordan’s trash talking, as if predicting something was the catalyst he needed to just do it. The most humbling part for opponents must have been the trash-talking aftermath, when Jordan would get in his defender’s face with a big grin and recap the great move he had just made at their expense.
Trash talking is just a part of being competitive and playing mind games with your opponent or letting out some aggression. Its worse on the internet because your opponent isnt standing right in front of you. If you dont like it its probably best to just ignore it also you should feel lucky at least in starcraft you can block communication with your opponent I bet some of Michael Jordans opponents wished they had that luxury lol.
On September 26 2011 12:48 harhar! wrote: i dont see whats wrong with a little bm and racism. i mwan he obviously doesnt mean it, so who cares...
Ok, whatever, you Jew-killing Nazi. Hope you're not offended, because I don't really mean it. Nazi.
i dont get the point you are trying to make. of course im not offended.
why is there so much drama over some words said in an onlinegame? they dont harm anyone.
Then do certain words harm anyone outside of games in real life? If not why is it illegal to deny the holocaust in Germany? thats just words too
denying holocaust is illegal for rather "practical" reasons. the neonazis in germany are denying it because they want to picture the jews as liars, rehabilitate the national socialism by trivializing it and a couple of other reasons, which you can surely find on wikipedia. so i can understand why they are banning it, even though it hurts the freedom of speech. i think in theory everyone should be able to say whatever he likes because if you start banning certain ideologies, its hard to tell when you are damaging democracy itself.
but this is the internet we are talking about. who really gives a shit if he gets bmed on ladder? im sure spades will apologize and everything will be fine, so why the drama?
On September 26 2011 12:48 harhar! wrote: i dont see whats wrong with a little bm and racism. i mwan he obviously doesnt mean it, so who cares...
Ok, whatever, you Jew-killing Nazi. Hope you're not offended, because I don't really mean it. Nazi.
i dont get the point you are trying to make. of course im not offended.
why is there so much drama over some words said in an onlinegame? they dont harm anyone.
Then do certain words harm anyone outside of games in real life? If not why is it illegal to deny the holocaust in Germany? thats just words too
denying holocaust is illegal for rather "practical" reasons. the neonazis in germany are denying it because they want to picture the jews as liars, rehabilitate the national socialism by trivializing it and a couple of other reasons, which you can surely find on wikipedia. so i can understand why they are banning it, even though it hurts the freedom of speech. i think in theory everyone should be able to say whatever he likes because if you start banning certain ideologies, its hard to tell when you are damaging democracy itself.
but this is the internet we are talking about. who really gives a shit if he gets bmed on ladder? im sure spades will apologize and everything will be fine, so why the drama?
it was a tourney, not ladder and that's a little more than just BM imo
On September 28 2011 10:39 Witten wrote: It's fine to BM if you want to. It's in your first amendment rights. However, it is in our rights to look at Spades language and lose respect for him.
Just because Hwangsin beat you doesn't mean you should call him a gook.
You do realise you forfiet your freedom of speech under blizzarsds ToS or whichever one it is.
Theres no such thing as freedom of speech in a private fourm/game/etc. If blizzard really wanted to, you can get a ban for that, they same way you can get a ban for offensive lanauge towards black people. [racial slurs]
On September 26 2011 12:48 harhar! wrote: i dont see whats wrong with a little bm and racism. i mwan he obviously doesnt mean it, so who cares...
I hope this is sarcasm from harhar!. And if it is sarcasm, I don't find it funny. I have followed and refrained from posting in this thread but it's comments like these that push me over the edge.
In the context of the United States, racism has been institutionalized. We still witness structural disadvantages for minority groups, including women, who, despite "equality between the sexes" earn less than men for doing the same jobs. Racism isn't just about the language we use. It's about the history of disenfranchisement and the many methods that dominant groups belittle, oppress, and repress marginalized groups.
In the contemporary moment, one of the primary ways that racism functions is through the perpetuation of negative stereotypes. These stereotypes are routinely delivered in the form, "I'm not racist, but...". The "but" is followed by an outright racist sentiment or stereotype. Here's link to the work of these sociologists on the "I'm not racist, but" phenomenon: http://www.sociology.emory.edu/downloads/bonilla-silva_forman_2000_i\'m_not_a_racist_but.pdf
In Spades case, he wrote an outright racial slur. I understand the "heat of the moment" argument. I understand the "people shit talk in sports" argument. It happens. So apologies are in order. I am all for these situation being resolved through apology. But it is a radicalized comment. It can't simply be excused because of the context or because of some people want to ignore the racial content.
Furthermore, in SCII, we are dealing with the phenomenon of the written word. Shit TALK goes in one ear and out the other to the extent that it is not recorded. With SCII, shit talk is often WRITTEN and the shit talker leaves behind a written record.
Imo, this written record only increases the burden on pros to be professional and to recognize the magnitude of the heat of the moment.
As hate crime legislation continues to develop in the United States, we see a greater emphasis on taking people's motivations into account when they commit violent crimes. These motivations are measured, in part, by evidence of their racist tendencies.Take, for instance, the recent branding of a Navajo man in New Mexico, and the running-over of a black man in Mississippi. Both of these crimes were committed by white men/adolescents. Both of these are being prosecuted as hate crimes, and in both cases, the authorities have looked to the past of the assailants to gauge their racist tendencies. In doing so, they LOOK AT THE WORDS THAT PEOPLE USE as evidence of their capacity to commit a hate crime.
tl;dr The fact the Spades would threaten violence and use a racial slur in the heat of the moment pushes a button that is not limited to sports and the SCII world. Rather, violence and racism are part of the pulse of the contemporary American attempt to re-evaluate crimes with regard to the level of racist-pre-meditation. Verbal threats and racial slurs begin to establish one as having the capacity to commit a hate crime. This isn't simply me being sensitive. This is the direction of U.S. law in the contemporary moment.
What does the bit about structural disadvantages and negative stereotypes have to do with the rest of your post?
lol @ people classifying "I'll slap the shit of you at MLG you stupid gook" as mere shit talk or BM. It is quite clearly worse than those things. Your sports analogies are silly; if a black NBA player got called a nigger by another player on the court there would DEFINITELY be a fight and suspensions. Similarly, with the exception of football, sports shit talk doesn't usually involve violent threats. Spades crossed two lines in one sentence - hate speech and violent threats. Community criticism is well deserved.
This type of thing happens in ALL sports scenes, not just esports. It happens, people get mad, and throw words around that they dont mean but say in the heat of the moment. I feel that as long as he later apologized (which he did) and nothing got out of hand or actually went any further, then it should just be forgotten.
Maybe went a little far with the racism and the threats, but he apologized, so as i said i think it should just be forgotten
On September 26 2011 12:48 harhar! wrote: i dont see whats wrong with a little bm and racism. i mwan he obviously doesnt mean it, so who cares...
I hope this is sarcasm from harhar!. And if it is sarcasm, I don't find it funny. I have followed and refrained from posting in this thread but it's comments like these that push me over the edge.
In the context of the United States, racism has been institutionalized. We still witness structural disadvantages for minority groups, including women, who, despite "equality between the sexes" earn less than men for doing the same jobs. Racism isn't just about the language we use. It's about the history of disenfranchisement and the many methods that dominant groups belittle, oppress, and repress marginalized groups.
In the contemporary moment, one of the primary ways that racism functions is through the perpetuation of negative stereotypes. These stereotypes are routinely delivered in the form, "I'm not racist, but...". The "but" is followed by an outright racist sentiment or stereotype. Here's link to the work of these sociologists on the "I'm not racist, but" phenomenon: http://www.sociology.emory.edu/downloads/bonilla-silva_forman_2000_i\'m_not_a_racist_but.pdf
In Spades case, he wrote an outright racial slur. I understand the "heat of the moment" argument. I understand the "people shit talk in sports" argument. It happens. So apologies are in order. I am all for these situation being resolved through apology. But it is a radicalized comment. It can't simply be excused because of the context or because of some people want to ignore the racial content.
Furthermore, in SCII, we are dealing with the phenomenon of the written word. Shit TALK goes in one ear and out the other to the extent that it is not recorded. With SCII, shit talk is often WRITTEN and the shit talker leaves behind a written record.
Imo, this written record only increases the burden on pros to be professional and to recognize the magnitude of the heat of the moment.
As hate crime legislation continues to develop in the United States, we see a greater emphasis on taking people's motivations into account when they commit violent crimes. These motivations are measured, in part, by evidence of their racist tendencies.Take, for instance, the recent branding of a Navajo man in New Mexico, and the running-over of a black man in Mississippi. Both of these crimes were committed by white men/adolescents. Both of these are being prosecuted as hate crimes, and in both cases, the authorities have looked to the past of the assailants to gauge their racist tendencies. In doing so, they LOOK AT THE WORDS THAT PEOPLE USE as evidence of their capacity to commit a hate crime.
tl;dr The fact the Spades would threaten violence and use a racial slur in the heat of the moment pushes a button that is not limited to sports and the SCII world. Rather, violence and racism are part of the pulse of the contemporary American attempt to re-evaluate crimes with regard to the level of racist-pre-meditation. Verbal threats and racial slurs begin to establish one as having the capacity to commit a hate crime. This isn't simply me being sensitive. This is the direction of U.S. law in the contemporary moment.
Referring to "... the direction of U.S. law in the contemporary moment." is nothing more than an appeal to authority / majority (fallacious). Having "the capacity" to do something and doing something are totally different things. Saying something racist and actually being racist are also two totally different things.
If we can agree Spades said something merely out of anger from being in the "heat of the moment" and is not in fact a racist, then I think you are totally blowing the situation out of proportion. If Spades is a racist, then how can one 'prove' this to the public. And if it could be proven, what should be done?
On September 28 2011 11:45 FusionMrWet wrote: This type of thing happens in ALL sports scenes
simply not true There would absolute giant brawls every night if it were.
edit: Wait, just to be clear. Are you saying white basketball players call black basketball players "nigger" on the court? And its just not that big of a deal?
On September 28 2011 11:45 FusionMrWet wrote: This type of thing happens in ALL sports scenes
simply not true There would absolute giant brawls every night if it were.
Wait, just to be clear. Are you saying white basketball players call black basketball players "nigger" on the court?
No, he is saying that a lot of trash talking takes place in sports, which is absolutely true. Don't put words in his mouth in an act of desperation to try and make a point.
On September 28 2011 11:45 FusionMrWet wrote: This type of thing happens in ALL sports scenes
simply not true There would absolute giant brawls every night if it were.
Wait, just to be clear. Are you saying white basketball players call black basketball players "nigger" on the court?
No, he is saying that a lot of trash talking takes place in sports, which is absolutely true. Don't put words in his mouth in an act of desperation to try and make a point.
Yes, of course trash talk takes place. And what Spades said is way way beyond trash talk. That's the whole point.
On September 28 2011 11:53 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On September 28 2011 11:52 iloveAthene wrote:
On September 28 2011 11:45 FusionMrWet wrote: This type of thing happens in ALL sports scenes
simply not true There would absolute giant brawls every night if it were.
Wait, just to be clear. Are you saying white basketball players call black basketball players "nigger" on the court?
No, he is saying that a lot of trash talking takes place in sports, which is absolutely true. Don't put words in his mouth in an act of desperation to try and make a point.
Yes, of course trash talk takes place. And what Spades said is way way beyond trash talk. That's the whole point.
The person who you replied to never said anything about racial slurs, so I'll say it again, don't put words in his mouth.
On September 28 2011 11:53 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On September 28 2011 11:52 iloveAthene wrote:
On September 28 2011 11:45 FusionMrWet wrote: This type of thing happens in ALL sports scenes
simply not true There would absolute giant brawls every night if it were.
Wait, just to be clear. Are you saying white basketball players call black basketball players "nigger" on the court?
No, he is saying that a lot of trash talking takes place in sports, which is absolutely true. Don't put words in his mouth in an act of desperation to try and make a point.
Yes, of course trash talk takes place. And what Spades said is way way beyond trash talk. That's the whole point.
The person who you replied to never said anything about racial slurs, so I'll say it again, don't put words in his mouth.
Well he said "this type of thing". And since this thread for the most part is about a threat/racial slur typed by Spades I assumed that's what he is talking about.
On September 28 2011 11:53 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On September 28 2011 11:52 iloveAthene wrote:
On September 28 2011 11:45 FusionMrWet wrote: This type of thing happens in ALL sports scenes
simply not true There would absolute giant brawls every night if it were.
Wait, just to be clear. Are you saying white basketball players call black basketball players "nigger" on the court?
No, he is saying that a lot of trash talking takes place in sports, which is absolutely true. Don't put words in his mouth in an act of desperation to try and make a point.
Yes, of course trash talk takes place. And what Spades said is way way beyond trash talk. That's the whole point.
The person who you replied to never said anything about racial slurs, so I'll say it again, don't put words in his mouth.
No, i didnt mean racial slurs, i meant trash talking and getting upset. Try to watch a professional football or basketball game today where one player doesnt shove another after the play or something like that, you couldnt, its part of the competitive nature and happens ALL the time. Who knows what 2 players are saying after the play in a football game when they are in each others faces and flags are being thrown. They could be using more racial slurs then rap music. And they physically put their hands on the other person, spades didnt. Does ESPN make a big deal? Nope, they just head to thier benches and it ends there.
BTW thanks to everyone who understood what i was saying and didnt try to put words in my mouth.
On September 28 2011 11:36 Doodsmack wrote: lol @ people classifying "I'll slap the shit of you at MLG you stupid gook" as mere shit talk or BM. It is quite clearly worse than those things. Your sports analogies are silly; if a black NBA player got called a nigger by another player on the court there would DEFINITELY be a fight and suspensions. Similarly, with the exception of football, sports shit talk doesn't usually involve violent threats. Spades crossed two lines in one sentence - hate speech and violent threats. Community criticism is well deserved.
Well said.. I think people trying to downplay what he stated are crazy he really crossed the line.. Not acceptable..
On September 28 2011 13:14 Lamphead wrote: you think if Kobe Bryant was talking trash with Lebron James in a 1v1 pickup game they would apologize to each other afterwards?!..
Racists remarks and telling someone you're going to physically assault them at an upcoming event isn't exactly 'trash talk'
On September 28 2011 11:36 Doodsmack wrote: lol @ people classifying "I'll slap the shit of you at MLG you stupid gook" as mere shit talk or BM. It is quite clearly worse than those things. Your sports analogies are silly; if a black NBA player got called a nigger by another player on the court there would DEFINITELY be a fight and suspensions. Similarly, with the exception of football, sports shit talk doesn't usually involve violent threats. Spades crossed two lines in one sentence - hate speech and violent threats. Community criticism is well deserved.
Two people separated by many miles will talk way more shit than two people standing right in front of another. Put Spades in front of hwang and $100 says he dosnt do shit. Your right if someone in the NBA was called a racist name there would be a fight and if someone said anything similar at MLG guess what theres probably going to be a fight which is why they wouldnt say it at a lan or to their opponents face for that matter and if NBA games were played over the internet you better believe someone is dropping an N bomb on Michael Jordan. When it comes down to it all these tough talking BMers on the internet really cant back up the things they say when face to face with their opponent. Online when someones mad they say the meanest thing they can think of in real life they say they meanest thing they can get away with unless theyre looking for a fight.
If someone is sensitive to language they can use the mature language filter in the game and even report someone who is harassing them. If the community wants this to stop then the community needs to stop paying so much attention to it. Words are only as powerful as we make them if no one hears them then your words are powerless.
People always overreact with anything dealing with race. I'm pretty sure Spades didn't prepare a racist comment but just said it at the top of his head out of anger. Let's be honest. Everyone is racist. Even if you are a respectful person, it doesn't mean you won't have those thoughts. People say some ridiculous things when they are angry. It was a response to HwangSin talking shit.
im certain it's not acceptable to any sponsors spades has, but in professional sports they do too have somewhat similar reactions. to alot of people that are hxc baseball fans, im sure it seems very unprofessional to throw your helmet into a corner in the dugout after getting struck out, but they don't lose their contracts over it, ppl just need to take things into an accurate perspective instead of overreacting, speaking of the entire community, not just the players or just the spectators.
On September 28 2011 14:13 Dbla08 wrote: im certain it's not acceptable to any sponsors spades has, but in professional sports they do too have somewhat similar reactions. to alot of people that are hxc baseball fans, im sure it seems very unprofessional to throw your helmet into a corner in the dugout after getting struck out, but they don't lose their contracts over it, ppl just need to take things into an accurate perspective instead of overreacting, speaking of the entire community, not just the players or just the spectators.
throwing your helmet in the dugout? are you seriously comparing that to this?
On September 28 2011 14:13 Dbla08 wrote: im certain it's not acceptable to any sponsors spades has, but in professional sports they do too have somewhat similar reactions. to alot of people that are hxc baseball fans, im sure it seems very unprofessional to throw your helmet into a corner in the dugout after getting struck out, but they don't lose their contracts over it, ppl just need to take things into an accurate perspective instead of overreacting, speaking of the entire community, not just the players or just the spectators.
throwing your helmet in the dugout? are you seriously comparing that to this?
I wouldnt compare it to something a little more serious then this, but as i stated before i would compare it to 2 football players getting in each others face or a batter having some choice words but not charging the mound after being thrown a close to head pitch, people say dumb shit that they dnt mean wen they are mad. Honestly, how many times do you think when football players are in each others faces they dont say something along the lines of "im gonna f**k you up" or something like that? C'mon, it happens, nothing came of it, he apologized. Not a big deal. It shopuld be handled like any other sport, the coach, or in this case, sponsor, has a talk with the person and thats it. Nothing more.
On September 28 2011 11:36 Doodsmack wrote: lol @ people classifying "I'll slap the shit of you at MLG you stupid gook" as mere shit talk or BM. It is quite clearly worse than those things. Your sports analogies are silly; if a black NBA player got called a nigger by another player on the court there would DEFINITELY be a fight and suspensions. Similarly, with the exception of football, sports shit talk doesn't usually involve violent threats. Spades crossed two lines in one sentence - hate speech and violent threats. Community criticism is well deserved.
Well said.. I think people trying to downplay what he stated are crazy he really crossed the line.. Not acceptable..
To this comment, your wrong about the basketball thing. Many players such as Ron Artest and other players that are known for being jerks have admitted to throwing around "racial slurs" when they are pissed and to throw off other players game, weather he does it to his own race(african american) or another race, he still does it, no fights have happened involving him, push and shove, certainly, what sport doesnt do that? Also, Joakim Noah called a gay basketball player and a gay fan a "f*g" last season, no fights, got fined, by the next week, forgot about. Same deal here, suspend spades from mlg or something of that nature, and forget it next week.
Dont get me wrong, im not defending his actions in any way, was it wrong, or course, should it be as big of a deal as its being made out to be, no. EVERYONE has said something they dont mean in anger, if you say you havnt, your lying. But because he said a "racial slur" its being blown waaay out of proportion. Also, everyone is saying "oh, he threatened him". If you consider ill slap the shit of you a threat, your a wimp, plain and simple. If he had said "ima kill you" or anything like that, its a threat, but "ill slap the shit out of you" is not a threat, i will admit to saying this exact phrase to ALL my friends on a daily basis.
Is what he did acceptable, absolutely not, big deal, not all all.
Well it was clumsy to use a racial slur since most people feel that is crossing the line, personally I don't care at all since he apologized afterwards but sponsors might feel differently I guess.
LOL that pic is funny as hell, hwangsin is no victim he really bites back . Just happened that the other guy was a little racist lol. Bonkerz you are really obsessed with this, it's weird how you made this thread just to cry about people calling you names on the internet. Kinda sad but really funny, nice thread!
A guy just offensive GGed me. Then told me I needed to be murdered, then I beat him.
00:04:07 - Zilea to ALL: gg
00:04:42 - Zilea to ALL: rofl 00:04:44 - Zilea to ALL: you need to be mudred
00:05:13 - Zilea to ALL: btw 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: if you want to know 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: why 00:05:17 - Zilea to ALL: youre stuck in mid master 00:05:19 - Zilea to ALL: its because of your build
00:05:32 - Zilea to ALL: rofl
I just think it's kind of pathetic that these people say this shit, even Spade. No one says this shit in real life, but they are so safe hiding behind the computer screen.
No one says this stuff in real life because they don't want to be judged by anyone that hears it, or they would be scared of the person they are saying it to. Most of them probably wouldn't even say it if their were a few obs watching the game. They are sad people
And yes this is a brag cause I beat an offensive gger.
On September 30 2011 10:06 Rotodyne wrote: A guy just offensive GGed me. Then told me I needed to be murdered, then I beat him.
00:04:07 - Zilea to ALL: gg
00:04:42 - Zilea to ALL: rofl 00:04:44 - Zilea to ALL: you need to be mudred
00:05:13 - Zilea to ALL: btw 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: if you want to know 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: why 00:05:17 - Zilea to ALL: youre stuck in mid master 00:05:19 - Zilea to ALL: its because of your build
00:05:32 - Zilea to ALL: rofl
I just think it's kind of pathetic that these people say this shit, even Spade. No one says this shit in real life, but they are so safe hiding behind the computer screen.
No one says this stuff in real life because they don't want to be judged by anyone that hears it, or they would be scared of the person they are saying it to. Most of them probably wouldn't even say it if their were a few obs watching the game. They are sad people
And yes this is a brag cause I beat an offensive gger.
It's only an offensive GG if they win......... So you can't beat an offensive gg'r technically. Not to mention his remarks make it sound like you lost to him.
On September 30 2011 10:06 Rotodyne wrote: A guy just offensive GGed me. Then told me I needed to be murdered, then I beat him.
00:04:07 - Zilea to ALL: gg
00:04:42 - Zilea to ALL: rofl 00:04:44 - Zilea to ALL: you need to be mudred
00:05:13 - Zilea to ALL: btw 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: if you want to know 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: why 00:05:17 - Zilea to ALL: youre stuck in mid master 00:05:19 - Zilea to ALL: its because of your build
00:05:32 - Zilea to ALL: rofl
I just think it's kind of pathetic that these people say this shit, even Spade. No one says this shit in real life, but they are so safe hiding behind the computer screen.
No one says this stuff in real life because they don't want to be judged by anyone that hears it, or they would be scared of the person they are saying it to. Most of them probably wouldn't even say it if their were a few obs watching the game. They are sad people
And yes this is a brag cause I beat an offensive gger.
It's only an offensive GG if they win......... So you can't beat an offensive gg'r technically. Not to mention his remarks make it sound like you lost to him.
On September 28 2011 11:45 FusionMrWet wrote: This type of thing happens in ALL sports scenes
simply not true There would absolute giant brawls every night if it were.
Wait, just to be clear. Are you saying white basketball players call black basketball players "nigger" on the court?
No, he is saying that a lot of trash talking takes place in sports, which is absolutely true. Don't put words in his mouth in an act of desperation to try and make a point.
Um, his basketball analogy is a pretty good comparison. And that just doesn't happen all the time. The racial slurs are always a big deal in sports.
I go to Rutgers, and Don Imus got his head handed to him on his radio show when he called our basketball team "nappy headed hoes" and some other black slur.
What Spades said wasn't trash talk. It wasn't "I'm gonna 2-0 u ez" or "he's terrible" or anything like that. It wasn't exactly good-humored eitherr, and I think he recognizes he made a mistake.
On September 30 2011 10:06 Rotodyne wrote: A guy just offensive GGed me. Then told me I needed to be murdered, then I beat him.
00:04:07 - Zilea to ALL: gg
00:04:42 - Zilea to ALL: rofl 00:04:44 - Zilea to ALL: you need to be mudred
00:05:13 - Zilea to ALL: btw 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: if you want to know 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: why 00:05:17 - Zilea to ALL: youre stuck in mid master 00:05:19 - Zilea to ALL: its because of your build
00:05:32 - Zilea to ALL: rofl
I just think it's kind of pathetic that these people say this shit, even Spade. No one says this shit in real life, but they are so safe hiding behind the computer screen.
No one says this stuff in real life because they don't want to be judged by anyone that hears it, or they would be scared of the person they are saying it to. Most of them probably wouldn't even say it if their were a few obs watching the game. They are sad people
And yes this is a brag cause I beat an offensive gger.
It's only an offensive GG if they win......... So you can't beat an offensive gg'r technically. Not to mention his remarks make it sound like you lost to him.
Thats why its funny :-) Herp
It was Zilea. Isn't that common practice from him?
No. It's not okay to say extreme stuff in-game or in real life or ever, to be quite frank. But people; everyone will do it sometimes because they're trolling or angered or whatever. Doesn't matter if it is okay or not or what your intentions are, extreme things can hurt people.
And people say stuff like, "He does it to hide/compensate for his insecurities...". seriously? Just because you saw the Simpsons episode where Bart becomes 'friends' with Nelson and it turns out he's insecure doesn't mean every bully, mean spirited person or troll is trying to hide something.
On September 30 2011 10:06 Rotodyne wrote: A guy just offensive GGed me. Then told me I needed to be murdered, then I beat him.
00:04:07 - Zilea to ALL: gg
00:04:42 - Zilea to ALL: rofl 00:04:44 - Zilea to ALL: you need to be mudred
00:05:13 - Zilea to ALL: btw 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: if you want to know 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: why 00:05:17 - Zilea to ALL: youre stuck in mid master 00:05:19 - Zilea to ALL: its because of your build
00:05:32 - Zilea to ALL: rofl
I just think it's kind of pathetic that these people say this shit, even Spade. No one says this shit in real life, but they are so safe hiding behind the computer screen.
No one says this stuff in real life because they don't want to be judged by anyone that hears it, or they would be scared of the person they are saying it to. Most of them probably wouldn't even say it if their were a few obs watching the game. They are sad people
And yes this is a brag cause I beat an offensive gger.
It's only an offensive GG if they win......... So you can't beat an offensive gg'r technically. Not to mention his remarks make it sound like you lost to him.
no it's definitely still an offensive GG if they think they won....he said it seconds after killing my ling army with his ling army.
also, it may look like I lost to him based on his comments, but that's because I didn't respond to him. And funnily enough the stuff he was saying completely applied to his own cheese build.
I don't know what you are getting at? You need the replay for proof or something -_-
On September 30 2011 10:57 Psyqo wrote: Immature kids being immature kids. Sponsors take note.
Well, when the majority of the "gaming" market consists of kids, it's natural to think such behavior would appeal to kids, thus sponsors would be glad to have that.
On September 30 2011 10:57 Psyqo wrote: Immature kids being immature kids. Sponsors take note.
Well, when the majority of the "gaming" market consists of kids, it's natural to think such behavior would appeal to kids, thus sponsors would be glad to have that.
No - sponsors don't want unprofessional, immature people - That is all.
On September 30 2011 10:06 Rotodyne wrote: A guy just offensive GGed me. Then told me I needed to be murdered, then I beat him.
00:04:07 - Zilea to ALL: gg
00:04:42 - Zilea to ALL: rofl 00:04:44 - Zilea to ALL: you need to be mudred
00:05:13 - Zilea to ALL: btw 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: if you want to know 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: why 00:05:17 - Zilea to ALL: youre stuck in mid master 00:05:19 - Zilea to ALL: its because of your build
00:05:32 - Zilea to ALL: rofl
I just think it's kind of pathetic that these people say this shit, even Spade. No one says this shit in real life, but they are so safe hiding behind the computer screen.
No one says this stuff in real life because they don't want to be judged by anyone that hears it, or they would be scared of the person they are saying it to. Most of them probably wouldn't even say it if their were a few obs watching the game. They are sad people
And yes this is a brag cause I beat an offensive gger.
at least you know your mechanics/timings/macro/micro are good and you're only stuck because of a build order
On September 30 2011 18:04 TheChostoProject wrote:
On September 30 2011 10:57 Psyqo wrote: Immature kids being immature kids. Sponsors take note.
Well, when the majority of the "gaming" market consists of kids, it's natural to think such behavior would appeal to kids, thus sponsors would be glad to have that.
No - sponsors don't want unprofessional, immature people - That is all.
Yeah, right. The same way tobacco companies don't want kids smoking or people getting addicted.
On September 30 2011 10:06 Rotodyne wrote: A guy just offensive GGed me. Then told me I needed to be murdered, then I beat him.
00:04:07 - Zilea to ALL: gg
00:04:42 - Zilea to ALL: rofl 00:04:44 - Zilea to ALL: you need to be mudred
00:05:13 - Zilea to ALL: btw 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: if you want to know 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: why 00:05:17 - Zilea to ALL: youre stuck in mid master 00:05:19 - Zilea to ALL: its because of your build
00:05:32 - Zilea to ALL: rofl
I just think it's kind of pathetic that these people say this shit, even Spade. No one says this shit in real life, but they are so safe hiding behind the computer screen.
No one says this stuff in real life because they don't want to be judged by anyone that hears it, or they would be scared of the person they are saying it to. Most of them probably wouldn't even say it if their were a few obs watching the game. They are sad people
And yes this is a brag cause I beat an offensive gger.
Nah, that's just Zilea, it's nothing special
Basically some kid who won a bunch of money playing WoW that now thinks he's entitled to be the best at SC2. He peaks at mid-master and talks shit to everyone, all the time
I once watched him not scout a terran for 17 minutes then complain that his opponent was dumb for not being on 2base after he suddenly found 2 more bases on the other side of the map
Watched a hilarious argument between him and fury about why him going 10pool banelings every ZvZ doesn't mean ZvZ is broken, it just means he sucks
But anyways, yeah, I've never liked Spades, shit like this just doesn't get forgiven in my book
On September 30 2011 18:04 TheChostoProject wrote:
On September 30 2011 10:57 Psyqo wrote: Immature kids being immature kids. Sponsors take note.
Well, when the majority of the "gaming" market consists of kids, it's natural to think such behavior would appeal to kids, thus sponsors would be glad to have that.
No - sponsors don't want unprofessional, immature people - That is all.
Yeah, right. The same way tobacco companies don't want kids smoking or people getting addicted.
They want any support they can get - but they certainly don't want immature players or those who are unprofessional. I'm not talking about fans- I'm talking players and management. Those who hire unprofessional, immature, idiots fail. If you don't recognize that then you know nothing about the history of gaming.
On September 28 2011 11:45 FusionMrWet wrote: This type of thing happens in ALL sports scenes
simply not true There would absolute giant brawls every night if it were.
edit: Wait, just to be clear. Are you saying white basketball players call black basketball players "nigger" on the court? And its just not that big of a deal?
Ask Kobe Bryant what happens if you call a certain referee a "fucking faggot". I'm sure he would be very embarrassed to tell you that those two words cost him fifty grand each.
On September 30 2011 10:06 Rotodyne wrote: A guy just offensive GGed me. Then told me I needed to be murdered, then I beat him.
00:04:07 - Zilea to ALL: gg
00:04:42 - Zilea to ALL: rofl 00:04:44 - Zilea to ALL: you need to be mudred
00:05:13 - Zilea to ALL: btw 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: if you want to know 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: why 00:05:17 - Zilea to ALL: youre stuck in mid master 00:05:19 - Zilea to ALL: its because of your build
00:05:32 - Zilea to ALL: rofl
I just think it's kind of pathetic that these people say this shit, even Spade. No one says this shit in real life, but they are so safe hiding behind the computer screen.
No one says this stuff in real life because they don't want to be judged by anyone that hears it, or they would be scared of the person they are saying it to. Most of them probably wouldn't even say it if their were a few obs watching the game. They are sad people
And yes this is a brag cause I beat an offensive gger.
i wouldnt worry about it, the kid raged at me too after i smashed him. too bad i have higher pts than him and he doesnt even win 50% of his games lol. put simply ignore retards like that. and why is this thread even still alive? who gives a fuck, whether its the pro scene or not trash talk is a part of competition and if its "extreme" well get some thick skin and move on.
On September 28 2011 11:45 FusionMrWet wrote: This type of thing happens in ALL sports scenes
simply not true There would absolute giant brawls every night if it were.
edit: Wait, just to be clear. Are you saying white basketball players call black basketball players "nigger" on the court? And its just not that big of a deal?
Ask Kobe Bryant what happens if you call a certain referee a "fucking faggot". I'm sure he would be very embarrassed to tell you that those two words cost him fifty grand each.
Not sure what you're getting at since "faggot" is not a racist remark. Call a black guy a faggot, then call him a "nigger" afterwards. It should be easy to tell that both words will give you a vastly different response (you will get your ass kicked on the latter).
There's a fine line between talking trash and being a racist prick. If you can't see it, then that's pretty sad.
well tbh, this is no worse than half the shit that I'm sure gets said on the football field...for example on monday night redskins at cowboys you could clearly see Romo cussing the players out on his team only difference is that there is written proof here, this isn't hurting sc2...just the person who said it suffers
On September 30 2011 10:06 Rotodyne wrote: A guy just offensive GGed me. Then told me I needed to be murdered, then I beat him.
00:04:07 - Zilea to ALL: gg
00:04:42 - Zilea to ALL: rofl 00:04:44 - Zilea to ALL: you need to be mudred
00:05:13 - Zilea to ALL: btw 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: if you want to know 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: why 00:05:17 - Zilea to ALL: youre stuck in mid master 00:05:19 - Zilea to ALL: its because of your build
00:05:32 - Zilea to ALL: rofl
I just think it's kind of pathetic that these people say this shit, even Spade. No one says this shit in real life, but they are so safe hiding behind the computer screen.
No one says this stuff in real life because they don't want to be judged by anyone that hears it, or they would be scared of the person they are saying it to. Most of them probably wouldn't even say it if their were a few obs watching the game. They are sad people
And yes this is a brag cause I beat an offensive gger.
Were you going to "Beat his ass" if he said that IRL? I really doubt it
On September 30 2011 10:06 Rotodyne wrote: A guy just offensive GGed me. Then told me I needed to be murdered, then I beat him.
00:04:07 - Zilea to ALL: gg
00:04:42 - Zilea to ALL: rofl 00:04:44 - Zilea to ALL: you need to be mudred
00:05:13 - Zilea to ALL: btw 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: if you want to know 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: why 00:05:17 - Zilea to ALL: youre stuck in mid master 00:05:19 - Zilea to ALL: its because of your build
00:05:32 - Zilea to ALL: rofl
I just think it's kind of pathetic that these people say this shit, even Spade. No one says this shit in real life, but they are so safe hiding behind the computer screen.
No one says this stuff in real life because they don't want to be judged by anyone that hears it, or they would be scared of the person they are saying it to. Most of them probably wouldn't even say it if their were a few obs watching the game. They are sad people
And yes this is a brag cause I beat an offensive gger.
That guy was in a "winning" situation (you seem to say he wrote that before he clearly lost) and was in a shitty mood? Wow... I can only imagine how he is when he loses :S. I'd ask what he did say when he did lose to you, but meh, I don't want to derail the thread. There's already a BM thread for this kind of thing lol.
While I for one do not care what people say to me, that does not mean a person should have to put up with threats or vulgar language if they do not want to. While yes, you can turn on the mature language filter, we all know how easy it is to wright a truly obscene sentence and not flag the filter.
Esports, and gaming in general is a lot bigger than some may realize. Tons of people you would never expect play games. For instance my own mother is an avid gamer and her creds include Everquest and WoW. Recently she expressed an interest in playing SC2, and I was able to think of was all the rage and BM I had encountered. A ton a racism and talk putting things in orifices.... Does my mom or some other gamer mom want to read that?
In any other situation, a game of magic the gathering for instance, you can not get away with saying the things that are said and for some reason excepted in the realm of computer gaming. Just imagine sitting across the table from someone playing chess or poker or dnd or what ever table top game and the dude looks you in the face and start talking about how your a (insert racial term) and how hes going to (insert sexual act). That person would be look at like a psychopath, and some may even simply get up from the table and punch said psychopath in the face.
In the end I know we are just going to have to put up with it, because it is not really possible to make a collective group of people and say, "You, grow up and stop being dicks!". And I'm just happy my mom does not want to get into HoN...
On September 30 2011 10:06 Rotodyne wrote: A guy just offensive GGed me. Then told me I needed to be murdered, then I beat him.
00:04:07 - Zilea to ALL: gg
00:04:42 - Zilea to ALL: rofl 00:04:44 - Zilea to ALL: you need to be mudred
00:05:13 - Zilea to ALL: btw 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: if you want to know 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: why 00:05:17 - Zilea to ALL: youre stuck in mid master 00:05:19 - Zilea to ALL: its because of your build
00:05:32 - Zilea to ALL: rofl
I just think it's kind of pathetic that these people say this shit, even Spade. No one says this shit in real life, but they are so safe hiding behind the computer screen.
No one says this stuff in real life because they don't want to be judged by anyone that hears it, or they would be scared of the person they are saying it to. Most of them probably wouldn't even say it if their were a few obs watching the game. They are sad people
And yes this is a brag cause I beat an offensive gger.
Were you going to "Beat his ass" if he said that IRL? I really doubt it
I find it hard to believe that Zilea would say such a thing in the first place in a RL setting. Revealing yourself to be a mildly sociopathic asshole is a lot harder to do in real life with other people around.
On September 30 2011 10:06 Rotodyne wrote: A guy just offensive GGed me. Then told me I needed to be murdered, then I beat him.
00:04:07 - Zilea to ALL: gg
00:04:42 - Zilea to ALL: rofl 00:04:44 - Zilea to ALL: you need to be mudred
00:05:13 - Zilea to ALL: btw 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: if you want to know 00:05:15 - Zilea to ALL: why 00:05:17 - Zilea to ALL: youre stuck in mid master 00:05:19 - Zilea to ALL: its because of your build
00:05:32 - Zilea to ALL: rofl
I just think it's kind of pathetic that these people say this shit, even Spade. No one says this shit in real life, but they are so safe hiding behind the computer screen.
No one says this stuff in real life because they don't want to be judged by anyone that hears it, or they would be scared of the person they are saying it to. Most of them probably wouldn't even say it if their were a few obs watching the game. They are sad people
And yes this is a brag cause I beat an offensive gger.
That guy was in a "winning" situation (you seem to say he wrote that before he clearly lost) and was in a shitty mood? Wow... I can only imagine how he is when he loses :S. I'd ask what he did say when he did lose to you, but meh, I don't want to derail the thread. There's already a BM thread for this kind of thing lol.
I can tell you what happens when Zilea loses... it's about the same. I met this guy in ladder, too. He tried a proxy hatch in my base, which I stopped with a cannon. Then I eventually beat his standard mix (I think) with phoenixes and stuff. I don't think there was a gg. He said he played for money, that I didn't, he was pro, etc. I wasn't convinced.
But on topic, even though things like what the OP posted do happen, I like how the responses are usually measured and tactful. Most of these pro gamers are really nice people, who just get caught up in the moment. Which is why I have a lot of respect for the scene, despite things like this.
On October 01 2011 19:22 Diablo3 wrote: nothing wrong with it. It sometimes happens. The intrawebs are dangerousss.
I am amazed that some people have this attitude towards being a dick...
If, as in the example above, someone told you that you deserved to be murdered in public, they would be regarded as an antisocial psychopath, and it would probably cause quite a stir.
What makes the internet so scpecial? Why is it that this sort of behavir should be tolerated without question?
don't be an ass and reinforce the angry nerd stereotype
even though it's serious business it's just a game and people should act civil about it
The people reinforcing the "angry nerd steriotype" are the people who post the absurd rage comments in the first place... but whatever
I dont think the immaturity of internet will ever change as long as everyone can hide behind their monitor without the threat of being able to be found IRL (like they can in S Korea)
On September 28 2011 11:45 FusionMrWet wrote: This type of thing happens in ALL sports scenes
simply not true There would absolute giant brawls every night if it were.
edit: Wait, just to be clear. Are you saying white basketball players call black basketball players "nigger" on the court? And its just not that big of a deal?
Ask Kobe Bryant what happens if you call a certain referee a "fucking faggot". I'm sure he would be very embarrassed to tell you that those two words cost him fifty grand each.
Not sure what you're getting at since "faggot" is not a racist remark. Call a black guy a faggot, then call him a "nigger" afterwards. It should be easy to tell that both words will give you a vastly different response (you will get your ass kicked on the latter).
There's a fine line between talking trash and being a racist prick. If you can't see it, then that's pretty sad.
If you don't realize what's wrong with calling someone a "faggot" then that's really sad.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/594/loserhighschoolkid.jpg/)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lP7v6.jpg)
I'd put money on Hwangsin over Spaddles any day...
. Just happened that the other guy was a little racist lol. Bonkerz you are really obsessed with this, it's weird how you made this thread just to cry about people calling you names on the internet. Kinda sad but really funny, nice thread!
