On September 25 2011 16:51 Bayyne wrote: Have you ever been to an NBA, NHL, NFL game live? Have you ever sat close enough to actually here the players talk to each other?
OMG if you hear the shit professional athletes say to each other during a game (especially NHL in my experience) your mouth would either drop, or have the biggest grin.
Pro athletes shit talk. Pro athletes will shit talk realllllly badly. Refs usually don't give a fuck unless it looks like it will get into a physical altercation.
My opinion? Don't get your panties up in a bunch unless a true physical/life threat occurs. And I say this in the most respectful manner man.
But they don't do it publically, which is what these sc2 players are doing, And i seriously doubt they give death threats to each other. But your right, I just don't know
On September 25 2011 16:51 Bayyne wrote: Have you ever been to an NBA, NHL, NFL game live? Have you ever sat close enough to actually here the players talk to each other?
OMG if you hear the shit professional athletes say to each other during a game (especially NHL in my experience) your mouth would either drop, or have the biggest grin.
Pro athletes shit talk. Pro athletes will shit talk realllllly badly. Refs usually don't give a fuck unless it looks like it will get into a physical altercation.
My opinion? Don't get your panties up in a bunch unless a true physical/life threat occurs. And I say this in the most respectful manner man.
But they don't do it publically, which is what these sc2 players are doing, And i seriously doubt they give death threats to each other. But your right, I just don't know
Which sc2 players?
Jedigamer who did it in a private chat with you over skype? Spades, who will probably see social repercussions as others as well?
I don't see any death threats. I see Jedi telling you to kill yourself.
On September 25 2011 16:32 Torte de Lini wrote: This is Jedigamer, he compensates for his insecurity by putting a front of obnoxious attacks towards other people (regardless if it is deemed or not).
He said himself he'd "turn over a new leaf", but shortly after, ruined it.
Don't give him more attention and don't use him as an example for anything relative or related.
Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? Especially a GROWN MAN to a highschooler (me) like for our game
Get off the soapbox.
read the edits...
You mean the next edit you just put in.
Which makes your case even less of a general issue or point. I still suggest to get off. There are disciplinary measures for people or expressions of anger like this.
You sound patronizing a bit to be honest. "How can we, the people, enjoy such games if there is a fear of others, potentially better or worst than us in skill, plague our subculture with these insults and... dare I say it: threats of life! How can we grow as a community, a growing bunch of gamers and determined professionals when we are constantly in social fear of being lashed out upon with threats we would never receive in person or in real life!
The grounds of professionalism are shaken! NEVER TO BE SAME AGAIN!"
Except nearly all organizations have a basis of measures to prevent this or deter it in addition: professionals are sponsored. They make the team look bad, poor publicity for the sponsors and eventually lose more opportunities in the future.
It's not the threat, but putting down an emotionally damaged person can literally cause people to kill themselves, being a person who has MATURED how can you still be acting like that no matter what the case, What if i was emotionally damaged and I ended up killing myself, and then again even sponsored players saying shit like this on ladder should get them like suspended from a tourny or some shit, We will never be taken seriously as long as we have people like this acting this way (pro players) ofc. And i will redirate, there isn't a professional athlete out there that can say stuff like this during their events or just anywhere, why should Starcraft 2 players?
That is the risk of all things on the internet. About the emotionally-damaged person: that isn't even your original approach. Yours was, in addition, between a high-schooler and a grown man, but also: "Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? "
That's your question or debate topic.
There will always be outliers or exceptions of people who are of poor-manner. It is their nature and they aren't an example of the community nor of competitive gaming [which all have subcultures and levels or boundaries of bad manners or cussing].
What if you were emotionally damaged and you killed yourself? Would it be because of that sole instance of an unknown insulting you after losing a match? Unlikely, but a combination of multiple things.
I think you're just on the soapbox again to be honest, maybe I'm just tired of people always looking out for how to be exemplary so we can strive by scrutinizing the smallest shits that always happen in all sports (including professional ones).
I'm not on a soapbox i really don't give a shit about jedigamer or what happened to me it's an example. And the spades thing just proves my point, he's a pro gamer, who is known, why isn't there a organization formed between tournaments to put a stop to stuff like this? I mean I guess SC2Con in korea tried right, but what about a formation of like IGN + MLG+ DH + NASL to stop idiotic shit like this?
See above, your example is about a non progamer who you talked to on your own free-doing outside of B.Net and not even in-person and we don't know the context.
Big stretch you're making if we consider your second edit.
As someone said: wait for a topic to be made. Eventually social judgement will come and repercussions will ensue.
You can't stop people from expressing themselves, you can only try to deter it or punish them for it. Which I'm sure Spades will by his team under the pressure of frantic sponsors.
So what are you trying to say?
I guess what i'm getting at, is we can't leave it up to the teams to enforce the rules, we need a Constant rule book and rule keepers to ensure that everything is always fair. The teams can't be depended on to make their own decisions because it obviously isn't working.
On September 25 2011 16:51 Bayyne wrote: Have you ever been to an NBA, NHL, NFL game live? Have you ever sat close enough to actually here the players talk to each other?
OMG if you hear the shit professional athletes say to each other during a game (especially NHL in my experience) your mouth would either drop, or have the biggest grin.
Pro athletes shit talk. Pro athletes will shit talk realllllly badly. Refs usually don't give a fuck unless it looks like it will get into a physical altercation.
My opinion? Don't get your panties up in a bunch unless a true physical/life threat occurs. And I say this in the most respectful manner man.
But they don't do it publically, which is what these sc2 players are doing, And i seriously doubt they give death threats to each other. But your right, I just don't know
Not publicly? The players talk shit loud enough for the hundreds of people in the crowd fortunate enough to hear them (sitting close to the action). Cameras can catch their mouth movements as well.
The only thing bad about all of this is these sc2 players' images/rep might be diminished somewhat. But frankly, I don't think they even give a damn.
On September 25 2011 16:32 Torte de Lini wrote: This is Jedigamer, he compensates for his insecurity by putting a front of obnoxious attacks towards other people (regardless if it is deemed or not).
He said himself he'd "turn over a new leaf", but shortly after, ruined it.
Don't give him more attention and don't use him as an example for anything relative or related.
Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? Especially a GROWN MAN to a highschooler (me) like for our game
Get off the soapbox.
read the edits...
You mean the next edit you just put in.
Which makes your case even less of a general issue or point. I still suggest to get off. There are disciplinary measures for people or expressions of anger like this.
You sound patronizing a bit to be honest. "How can we, the people, enjoy such games if there is a fear of others, potentially better or worst than us in skill, plague our subculture with these insults and... dare I say it: threats of life! How can we grow as a community, a growing bunch of gamers and determined professionals when we are constantly in social fear of being lashed out upon with threats we would never receive in person or in real life!
The grounds of professionalism are shaken! NEVER TO BE SAME AGAIN!"
Except nearly all organizations have a basis of measures to prevent this or deter it in addition: professionals are sponsored. They make the team look bad, poor publicity for the sponsors and eventually lose more opportunities in the future.
It's not the threat, but putting down an emotionally damaged person can literally cause people to kill themselves, being a person who has MATURED how can you still be acting like that no matter what the case, What if i was emotionally damaged and I ended up killing myself, and then again even sponsored players saying shit like this on ladder should get them like suspended from a tourny or some shit, We will never be taken seriously as long as we have people like this acting this way (pro players) ofc. And i will redirate, there isn't a professional athlete out there that can say stuff like this during their events or just anywhere, why should Starcraft 2 players?
That is the risk of all things on the internet. About the emotionally-damaged person: that isn't even your original approach. Yours was, in addition, between a high-schooler and a grown man, but also: "Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? "
That's your question or debate topic.
There will always be outliers or exceptions of people who are of poor-manner. It is their nature and they aren't an example of the community nor of competitive gaming [which all have subcultures and levels or boundaries of bad manners or cussing].
What if you were emotionally damaged and you killed yourself? Would it be because of that sole instance of an unknown insulting you after losing a match? Unlikely, but a combination of multiple things.
I think you're just on the soapbox again to be honest, maybe I'm just tired of people always looking out for how to be exemplary so we can strive by scrutinizing the smallest shits that always happen in all sports (including professional ones).
I'm not on a soapbox i really don't give a shit about jedigamer or what happened to me it's an example. And the spades thing just proves my point, he's a pro gamer, who is known, why isn't there a organization formed between tournaments to put a stop to stuff like this? I mean I guess SC2Con in korea tried right, but what about a formation of like IGN + MLG+ DH + NASL to stop idiotic shit like this?
See above, your example is about a non progamer who you talked to on your own free-doing outside of B.Net and not even in-person and we don't know the context.
Big stretch you're making if we consider your second edit.
As someone said: wait for a topic to be made. Eventually social judgement will come and repercussions will ensue.
You can't stop people from expressing themselves, you can only try to deter it or punish them for it. Which I'm sure Spades will by his team under the pressure of frantic sponsors.
So what are you trying to say?
I guess what i'm getting at, is we can't leave it up to the teams to enforce the rules, we need a Constant rule book and rule keepers to ensure that everything is always fair. The teams can't be depended on to make their own decisions because it obviously isn't working.
Oh you meant the organizers of tournaments which they do. How is the team thing not working?
I'm not saying you don't have a potential point, you're just conveying it poorly and with exaggeration.
On September 25 2011 16:32 Torte de Lini wrote: This is Jedigamer, he compensates for his insecurity by putting a front of obnoxious attacks towards other people (regardless if it is deemed or not).
He said himself he'd "turn over a new leaf", but shortly after, ruined it.
Don't give him more attention and don't use him as an example for anything relative or related.
Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? Especially a GROWN MAN to a highschooler (me) like for our game
Get off the soapbox.
read the edits...
You mean the next edit you just put in.
Which makes your case even less of a general issue or point. I still suggest to get off. There are disciplinary measures for people or expressions of anger like this.
You sound patronizing a bit to be honest. "How can we, the people, enjoy such games if there is a fear of others, potentially better or worst than us in skill, plague our subculture with these insults and... dare I say it: threats of life! How can we grow as a community, a growing bunch of gamers and determined professionals when we are constantly in social fear of being lashed out upon with threats we would never receive in person or in real life!
The grounds of professionalism are shaken! NEVER TO BE SAME AGAIN!"
Except nearly all organizations have a basis of measures to prevent this or deter it in addition: professionals are sponsored. They make the team look bad, poor publicity for the sponsors and eventually lose more opportunities in the future.
It's not the threat, but putting down an emotionally damaged person can literally cause people to kill themselves, being a person who has MATURED how can you still be acting like that no matter what the case, What if i was emotionally damaged and I ended up killing myself, and then again even sponsored players saying shit like this on ladder should get them like suspended from a tourny or some shit, We will never be taken seriously as long as we have people like this acting this way (pro players) ofc. And i will redirate, there isn't a professional athlete out there that can say stuff like this during their events or just anywhere, why should Starcraft 2 players?
That is the risk of all things on the internet. About the emotionally-damaged person: that isn't even your original approach. Yours was, in addition, between a high-schooler and a grown man, but also: "Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? "
That's your question or debate topic.
There will always be outliers or exceptions of people who are of poor-manner. It is their nature and they aren't an example of the community nor of competitive gaming [which all have subcultures and levels or boundaries of bad manners or cussing].
What if you were emotionally damaged and you killed yourself? Would it be because of that sole instance of an unknown insulting you after losing a match? Unlikely, but a combination of multiple things.
I think you're just on the soapbox again to be honest, maybe I'm just tired of people always looking out for how to be exemplary so we can strive by scrutinizing the smallest shits that always happen in all sports (including professional ones).
I'm not on a soapbox i really don't give a shit about jedigamer or what happened to me it's an example. And the spades thing just proves my point, he's a pro gamer, who is known, why isn't there a organization formed between tournaments to put a stop to stuff like this? I mean I guess SC2Con in korea tried right, but what about a formation of like IGN + MLG+ DH + NASL to stop idiotic shit like this?
See above, your example is about a non progamer who you talked to on your own free-doing outside of B.Net and not even in-person and we don't know the context.
Big stretch you're making if we consider your second edit.
As someone said: wait for a topic to be made. Eventually social judgement will come and repercussions will ensue.
You can't stop people from expressing themselves, you can only try to deter it or punish them for it. Which I'm sure Spades will by his team under the pressure of frantic sponsors.
So what are you trying to say?
I guess what i'm getting at, is we can't leave it up to the teams to enforce the rules, we need a Constant rule book and rule keepers to ensure that everything is always fair. The teams can't be depended on to make their own decisions because it obviously isn't working.
Oh you meant the organizers of tournaments which they do. How is the team thing not working?
I'm not saying you don't have a potential point, you're just conveying it poorly and with exaggeration.
Which i apologize for i guess, i'm probably not the best at debating with you about this, but atleast i hope we can recognize an issue, and the team comment refers directly to idra, There could be silent repercussions for him but, I'd really like to see the tournies take more of a stand if he does extreme BM at their events which i think he has, I'll dig for the games tommorow.
getting hurt over internet trashtalk is bad. People talk shit, because it has no consequances, so dont bother, tell him to go fck himself or something, and move on.
And as mentioned pro-athlets also do this IRL and say a lot more hurtful stuff.
Idk, i don't mind people being like this...especially if it's in channel on bnet...it would be something else if he said it to camera during mlg interview but whatever
tbh I son't see what spades said going without any sort of punishment from Reign management. Most of reign is fairly well mannered. I think Spades was egged on and provoked. Cause tbh I rarely see him bm. But I might be wrong in this as I don't watch a ton of spades.
On September 25 2011 16:59 Geo.Rion wrote: getting hurt over internet trashtalk is bad. People talk shit, because it has no consequances, so dont bother, tell him to go fck himself or something, and move on.
And as mentioned pro-athlets also do this IRL and say a lot more hurtful stuff.
But ireally havn't heard much of it publically said, because maybe pro athletes are smarter than all of us?
On September 25 2011 16:59 RoyalCheese wrote: Idk, i don't mind people being like this...especially if it's in channel on bnet...it would be something else if he said it to camera during mlg interview but whatever
I think people like you don't help the issue, maybe if shit like this wasn't accepted by the whole community, people woulnd't talk to each other like this.
On September 25 2011 16:32 Torte de Lini wrote: This is Jedigamer, he compensates for his insecurity by putting a front of obnoxious attacks towards other people (regardless if it is deemed or not).
He said himself he'd "turn over a new leaf", but shortly after, ruined it.
Don't give him more attention and don't use him as an example for anything relative or related.
[quote]
Get off the soapbox.
read the edits...
You mean the next edit you just put in.
Which makes your case even less of a general issue or point. I still suggest to get off. There are disciplinary measures for people or expressions of anger like this.
You sound patronizing a bit to be honest. "How can we, the people, enjoy such games if there is a fear of others, potentially better or worst than us in skill, plague our subculture with these insults and... dare I say it: threats of life! How can we grow as a community, a growing bunch of gamers and determined professionals when we are constantly in social fear of being lashed out upon with threats we would never receive in person or in real life!
The grounds of professionalism are shaken! NEVER TO BE SAME AGAIN!"
Except nearly all organizations have a basis of measures to prevent this or deter it in addition: professionals are sponsored. They make the team look bad, poor publicity for the sponsors and eventually lose more opportunities in the future.
It's not the threat, but putting down an emotionally damaged person can literally cause people to kill themselves, being a person who has MATURED how can you still be acting like that no matter what the case, What if i was emotionally damaged and I ended up killing myself, and then again even sponsored players saying shit like this on ladder should get them like suspended from a tourny or some shit, We will never be taken seriously as long as we have people like this acting this way (pro players) ofc. And i will redirate, there isn't a professional athlete out there that can say stuff like this during their events or just anywhere, why should Starcraft 2 players?
That is the risk of all things on the internet. About the emotionally-damaged person: that isn't even your original approach. Yours was, in addition, between a high-schooler and a grown man, but also: "Is it okay for people to be using terms like this over a video game? "
That's your question or debate topic.
There will always be outliers or exceptions of people who are of poor-manner. It is their nature and they aren't an example of the community nor of competitive gaming [which all have subcultures and levels or boundaries of bad manners or cussing].
What if you were emotionally damaged and you killed yourself? Would it be because of that sole instance of an unknown insulting you after losing a match? Unlikely, but a combination of multiple things.
I think you're just on the soapbox again to be honest, maybe I'm just tired of people always looking out for how to be exemplary so we can strive by scrutinizing the smallest shits that always happen in all sports (including professional ones).
I'm not on a soapbox i really don't give a shit about jedigamer or what happened to me it's an example. And the spades thing just proves my point, he's a pro gamer, who is known, why isn't there a organization formed between tournaments to put a stop to stuff like this? I mean I guess SC2Con in korea tried right, but what about a formation of like IGN + MLG+ DH + NASL to stop idiotic shit like this?
See above, your example is about a non progamer who you talked to on your own free-doing outside of B.Net and not even in-person and we don't know the context.
Big stretch you're making if we consider your second edit.
As someone said: wait for a topic to be made. Eventually social judgement will come and repercussions will ensue.
You can't stop people from expressing themselves, you can only try to deter it or punish them for it. Which I'm sure Spades will by his team under the pressure of frantic sponsors.
So what are you trying to say?
I guess what i'm getting at, is we can't leave it up to the teams to enforce the rules, we need a Constant rule book and rule keepers to ensure that everything is always fair. The teams can't be depended on to make their own decisions because it obviously isn't working.
Oh you meant the organizers of tournaments which they do. How is the team thing not working?
I'm not saying you don't have a potential point, you're just conveying it poorly and with exaggeration.
Which i apologize for i guess, i'm probably not the best at debating with you about this, but atleast i hope we can recognize an issue, and the team comment refers directly to idra, There could be silent repercussions for him but, I'd really like to see the tournies take more of a stand if he does extreme BM at their events which i think he has, I'll dig for the games tommorow.
What's the issue? Because you have one example and we've yet to see the consequences ensue [yet].
Which extreme bm are you referencing? Sounds like you're picking an easy target due to his reputation without really naming what he's done.
Even so: two examples of two players over a period of a year of the game and hundreds of players and thousands of games and hundreds of tournaments.
The issue is so minor and the scrutinizing is bewildering!
Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote: Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.
I truly hope so, every time something like this happens it hurts the scene.
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote: Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.
I truly hope so, every time something like this happens it hurts the scene.
How much does it hurt the scene? In what way does it hurt the scene? What are the long-term consequences for his actions?
Not saying you're wrong, but that line is slapped on too much shit. Would love an elaboration to what you mean by "hurting the scene".
Yes, it hurts the "scene", but to what extent and how so? Do the interested parties intentionally look for these particular instances of lapsed judgement so they can find a reason to "avoid" a potential new market?
On September 25 2011 16:32 BigBadBeaver wrote: No "pro" would say things as sensitive as "kill yourself" in a tournament setting. Most people are quite reasonable when there are people watching.
IMO, good sportsmanship is important and this sort of thing shouldn't be encouraged. I'd love it if, for example, we had an all-inclusive enough set of professional and semi-pro leagues (equivalent to, say, the NBA and the NCAA) that players could be penalized in a meaningful way for bad manners, bad sportsmanship, hate speech, etc - it gives ESPORTS a bad name - but until then, I'm just going to do my best to ignore it and the players involved. There's a reason it's been years since I've been able to root for idra.
On September 25 2011 16:32 BigBadBeaver wrote: No "pro" would say things as sensitive as "kill yourself" in a tournament setting. Most people are quite reasonable when there are people watching.
Idra?
Here you go. Now you guys can all fret and panic about the scene!
On September 25 2011 17:02 Spades wrote: Hwangsin and I had a somewhat unfriendly series of games, and brought our argument to a chat channel, which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea. We went back and forth for a while, and I lost control and said something stupid. I've already talked to Scott(It's Gosu's manager) and there are no hard feelings, just a momentary case of bad judgement. I will personally apologize to HwangSin, and I will do my best not to act in an immature manner again.
I truly hope so, every time something like this happens it hurts the scene.
How much does it hurt the scene? In what way does it hurt the scene? What are the long-term consequences for his actions?
Not saying you're wrong, but that line is slapped on too much shit. Would love an elaboration to what you mean by "hurting the scene".
Yes, it hurts the "scene", but to what extent and how so? Do the interested parties intentionally look for these particular instances of lapsed judgement so they can find a reason to "avoid" a potential new market?
I pm'd you about But basically from a standpoint of a spectator/sponsor/investor OUTSIDE of our community/gaming scene how can we be taken seriously with stuff like this being said between players...
EPT
