EPTStatement of Millenium on the Stephano situation - Page 14
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Moldwood
United States280 Posts
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HorsemasterK
United States606 Posts
...my head hurts. | ||
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AzurewinD
United States569 Posts
I did read carefully, tyvm. coL didn't bother informing M in any way before the col / S contract was signed, why would M bother answering coL once Stephano decides to stay in M ? It's kind of a "you do it to me, I do it to you" answer. (very stupid behavior from both sides if you ask me , though nothing illegal per se) Gee I don't know, maybe because he breached a signed contract and it has legal ramifications for all parties involved? And far reaching effects in terms of the importance of contracts in esports? That's kind of important business to reply to immediately, you know, instead of streaming your ladder practice. Again we're talking about something completely different from the original post you quoted me on. | ||
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RAW-BERRY
United States26 Posts
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SwEEt[TearS]
Canada1575 Posts
Vous devez absolument communiquer sur cette affaire comme le ferait n'importe quelle team pro, cette attitude silencieuse est destructrice pour l'image du E sport Français et pire encore, elle expose votre joueur aux attaques violentes des fans de SC2 d'ici ou d'ailleurs. Personne ne comprend pourquoi Stephano n'a pas respecté le contrat qu'il a signé avec CoL, personne ne comprend pourquoi vous vous improvisez porte parole du E sport français, merci mais on se passerait bien d'histoires de ce genre. C'est pas Asterix sur Shakuras, vous devez protéger votre joueur d'abord, parce qu'à ce rythme personne ne voudra coller un sponsor sur son maillot. L'entière communauté de SC2 vous regarde et dans le meilleur des cas se demande vraiment ce qui ne tourne pas rond en France. Si vous voulez vraiment développer l'E sport en France essayez de faire en sorte qu'on ne passe pas pour des guignols, pour le moment c'est raté. (crude translation): You absolutely have to release a statement about this situation like any other pro team would, this silent attitude is destroying the French esports image and even worse exposing your player to violent attacks from SC2 fans from here or elsewhere. Nobody here understands why Stephano didn’t respect the contract signed with coL, nobody understands why you’re claiming to be the spokesperson for French esports, thanks but we could do without situations like these. It isn’t Asterix on Shakuras, you got to protect your player first, because at this rhythm nobody will want to stick a sponsor on his shirt. The entire SC2 community is looking at you and in the best case scenario is asking themselves what the hell is going on in France If you really want to help esports in France how about you try to make sure we don’t look like imbeciles, at the moment you’re doing it wrong. | ||
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Dandy_Moustachu
France422 Posts
The evil team EG offer a contract to Puma who was with TSL but does'nt have a contract and was just bound by some honor contract => Puma accept the contract from EG => Evil Geniuses are soooo evil !!!! The team Col offer a contract to Stephano who was with Millenium but does'nt have a contract and has just said a few day before that he'll stay with them for the next year => Stephano accept the contract from Col => Millenium strike back => Stephano change his mind and want to stay with Millenium => Millenium are soooo evil !!!! So what the difference ? The evil team is always the one who was prefered by the player in the end ? Or it's just that Korean team are a wonderful world of carebear and the french one are ... french (and people aren't accustomed to french who don't surrender quickly ? | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On September 21 2011 02:30 Medrea wrote: No matter how you put it though. Complexity has a very convincing argument that Stephano for contractual purposes is their player. Obviously Complexity has zero interest in forcing Stephano to do anything. But then what is the point of a contract? Nope, something has to stick eventually. Lets be serious here, Stephano or Millenium will only get a small slap on the wrists. Dragging this out is very detrimental to Mill and the rest of its players. Without delving into the drama (and just to clarify I consider both, all 3 if including Stephano, sides shady) was the contract actually binding ? I have pretty big doubts that col would have much luck going the court route. This was probably "international" contract (I doubt French entity signed the contract on behalf of col) and just that fact makes it highly unlikely they would be able to actually force the contract even if it satisfied all French system requirements and I highly doubt it actually did considering the state of esports business. Another thing is we have no idea what the contract between col and Stephano says. That it was signed means nothing, important is the date it becomes binding and the rules/conditions of withdrawing from the contract. Some of them might be defined by French law and do not even have to be mentioned in the contract to be implicitly present. So for people saying col actually came clean, no they did not, they seemingly provided more information, but far from enough to be sure of how all this happened and what is the true current state of the situation. Another thing is Stephano 18, not sure if I should trust liquipedia on this ? | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On September 21 2011 02:53 AzurewinD wrote: Gee I don't know, maybe because he breached a signed contract and it has legal ramifications for all parties involved? And far reaching effects in terms of the importance of contracts in esports? That's kind of important business to reply to immediately. Again we're talking about something completely different from the original post you quoted me on. There is actually no proof that he breached any contract. | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On September 21 2011 02:50 Ylrahc wrote: Then again, not saying it wasn't legal, just saying it wasn't classy. Why do TL transfers happen to be so smooth ? because they are made with the 3 parties having full knowledge of what's going on. coL deliberately chose to make Stephano sign at 3 AM so M wouldn't be able to build a proper answer. I did read carefully, tyvm. coL didn't bother informing M in any way before the col / S contract was signed, why would M bother answering coL once Stephano decides to stay in M ? It's kind of a "you do it to me, I do it to you" answer. (very stupid behavior from both sides if you ask me , though nothing illegal per se) Edit : this would be my last post, tired to argue over the same thing over and again because some don't want to listen. As of now, i'm going to enjoy this tournament : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=265710 (what ? a great tournament with most of best EU players organized by M ? heresy, how could this happen, M is such a bad team with no strong reference in EU or in the world !) Because TL has their players on contract. Think back to EG/Huk/TL, EG had to contact TL so they could buy out the remainder of Huk's contract, I have no doubt that TL was a class act throughout negotiations, but while they're losing out on a player they have the potential to gain on the selling of his contract, if a contract has run out or is about to run out then it's still good to talk to the team but at that point the player should be expected to say, "Hey, I'm getting all these offers, can you guys match them, I want to stay with you". In the case of a free agent, there's absolutely nothing wrong in either department for me, in going to the player directly because as I said earlier, the team may not be interested in what could benefit the player the most, but what could benefit them the most. This is why agents exist, but in the absence of an agent, you contact the player. I don't that it wasn't "classy" either, it was pretty standard procedure because of the reason I stated above, if a player isn't on my team and I don't want him to be on yours, I can sabotage the deal. If he's on my team and I fuck up the deal, by the time the contract is up, you can approach him as a free agent and he'll have no interest in re-signing with me. On September 21 2011 02:55 Dandy_Moustachu wrote: Someone can explain me : The evil team EG offer a contract to Puma who was with TSL but does'nt have a contract and was just bound by some honor contract => Puma accept the contract from EG => Evil Geniuses are soooo evil !!!! The team Col offer a contract to Stephano who was with Millenium but does'nt have a contract and has just said a few day before that he'll stay with them for the next year => Stephano accept the contract from Col => Millenium strike back => Stephano change his mind and want to stay with Millenium => Millenium are soooo evil !!!! So what the difference ? The evil team is always the one who was prefered by the player in the end ? Or it's just that Korean team are a wonderful world of carebear and the french one are ... french (and people aren't accustomed to french who don't surrender quickly ? There was a massive cultural gap whereby Korean teams were known to generally not sign their players, if the incident was repeated now, people would likely be less sympathetic to the "TSL-esque" party because it's been established that you have contract your players, TSL now has all their players contracts. This is not the case in the foreign scene, it is known that if a player is yours, he is on contract, and if it wasn't in France, then the EG/TSL fiasco should have made it clear to everyone. Sign your players, or they aren't yours. That is the difference, there is no massive culture gap here, there is a precedent, there is no reason not to have your player contracted. Furthermore, Millenium had knowledge that Stephano was being approached by teams, TSL's coach had no fucking clue that Puma had any intention on leaving or had received any offer. | ||
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daviday
Hong Kong33 Posts
1st - Everyone will have forgoten about that in 1 week. 2nd- if teams doesnt want stephano because of that story ( witch im Sure will never happen ) , how can that be a bad news for millenium ? 3rd - i dont see how it would have any backfire on stephano regarding us tourney and stuff , since MLG keep asking players from millenium to join their tourney. | ||
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AzurewinD
United States569 Posts
On September 21 2011 02:56 mcc wrote: There is actually no proof that he breached any contract. There isn't? My bad then? He didn't electronically sign a contract with Complexity and then later break that by changing his mind and signing another contract with Mil? That's why we're here discussing it after all. The proof hasn't been released but I doubt coL would start this if he didn't actually sign a contract. If he didn't do that then I'll change my post, but then I'm not sure we'd all be here arguing over it if he didn't. | ||
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daviday
Hong Kong33 Posts
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Denar
France1633 Posts
And I was hoping that we could hear Stephano's opinion on today's statement, but still no word from him. Makes me wonder if this comeback annoucement was a bit rushed itself... | ||
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Vendor
Canada115 Posts
On September 21 2011 02:55 Dandy_Moustachu wrote: Someone can explain me : The evil team EG offer a contract to Puma who was with TSL but does'nt have a contract and was just bound by some honor contract => Puma accept the contract from EG => Evil Geniuses are soooo evil !!!! The team Col offer a contract to Stephano who was with Millenium but does'nt have a contract and has just said a few day before that he'll stay with them for the next year => Stephano accept the contract from Col => Millenium strike back => Stephano change his mind and want to stay with Millenium => Millenium are soooo evil !!!! So what the difference ? The evil team is always the one who was prefered by the player in the end ? Or it's just that Korean team are a wonderful world of carebear and the french one are ... french (and people aren't accustomed to french who don't surrender quickly ? EG did it "wrong" in that they didn't talk to TSL about it at all coL DID talk to Mill as they were bidding back and forth between the two of them. That is the big reason no communication between the two teams in TSL vs EG and tons with coL and Mill. If you have doubts you simply don't sign a contract, that is what makes it a contract. Try to get out of your mortgage without tons of problems, it's the same idea. | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On September 21 2011 02:59 AzurewinD wrote: There isn't? My bad then? He didn't electronically sign a contract with Complexity and then later break that by changing his mind and signing another contract with Mil? That's why we're here discussing it after all. The proof hasn't been released but I doubt coL would start this if he didn't actually sign a contract. If he didn't do that then I'll change my post, but then I'm not sure we'd all be here arguing over it if he didn't. He did sign a contract, and he is technically in breach I believe. | ||
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purecarnagge
719 Posts
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SwEEt[TearS]
Canada1575 Posts
On September 21 2011 02:58 daviday wrote: Things is , as lewelys said they doesnt care about gossips : 1st - Everyone will have forgoten about that in 1 week. 2nd- if teams doesnt want stephano because of that story ( witch im Sure will never happen ) , how can that be a bad news for millenium ? 3rd - i dont see how it would have any backfire on stephano regarding us tourney and stuff , since MLG keep asking players from millenium to join their tourney. 1. there's always going to be an idiot bumping the thread so no, nobody will forget in a week 2. so I guess Millenium doesn't care about Stephano? to the point they'd rather ruin his reputation and keep him than actually let him get better and have a better future? Now I understand why the only words he mustered on Lwl's stream was "j'espere avoir fait le bon choix" (I hope I took the right decision). 3. you really think [M]'s lack of professionalism will be easily forgotten? don't expect they get the same treatment from now on. ESPECIALLY with such shitty PR. On September 21 2011 03:00 daviday wrote: BTW when Liquid took HuK from millenium there was 0 trouble... that's because they had no money for counter-offers, lol. | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On September 21 2011 02:59 AzurewinD wrote: There isn't? My bad then? He didn't electronically sign a contract with Complexity and then later break that by changing his mind and signing another contract with Mil? That's why we're here discussing it after all. The proof hasn't been released but I doubt coL would start this if he didn't actually sign a contract. If he didn't do that then I'll change my post, but then I'm not sure we'd all be here arguing over it if he didn't. I did not say anything about signing. He might have as well did that, that does not mean he breached it by withdrawing from it and signing contract with Millenium. To judge that we would have to see the contract and probably even then we would need lawyer's opinion. | ||
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Rigou
France19 Posts
On September 21 2011 02:50 Vendor wrote: You got the first part wrong, both sides were in contact with one another and were counter bidding. coL never said sign or else, Stephano signed the contract all by himself therefore signing a legal document concerning his work. Him and Mil then went back on the contract and now could possibly face legal action. And yes e-sports teams ARE a corporation trying to make money. This is why the whole going back on the contract is such a big deal. I Yes the first part is controversial because both teams claim different fact: Col that they were in contact and Mill. that they learned with the press release. But honestly i really do not see why Col. would have talked to Mill. if Stephano wasn't bind by any means to them. Again i'm making assumptions here as everybody. when you say "they did't" it's actually 'they claimed they didn't" because it's all we have. | ||
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daviday
Hong Kong33 Posts
On September 21 2011 03:00 Denar wrote: The more interesting part to me is that coL's announcement had a quote from Stephano (one line, but still). The "come-back" announcement of Millenium doesn't have one. And I was hoping that we could hear Stephano's opinion on today's statement, but still no word from him. Makes me wonder if this comeback annoucement was a bit rushed itself... T'es con ou quoi ? Stephano talked for 30 minutes on millenium TV thats worth all 2 lines annoucement.. | ||
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