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Lack of content, flaming (of the French or anyone) and useless posts will be punished. Please keep it from being too inflammatory and keep discussion on-topic. -semioldguy (p.103) Update: Please read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267506#1 and continue the discussion there. | ||
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Vira
573 Posts
On September 20 2011 03:54 Gotmog wrote: Don't care about it that much, BUT, this probably means Stephano is not going to MLG  Sucks for all of us He said He will go to MLG and train to Korea with Millenium. | ||
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Emporio
United States3069 Posts
On September 20 2011 03:55 gulati wrote: Dude... STOP thinking that Stephano was born without a brain! CONTRACTS have risks and rewards. Stephano did not have a fucking gun held to his head. He acted under his best interests. Let me give you a fucking example: If you sell a card collection of baseball cards, which you bought for $1, and you sell them for $20, you made a 20x profit. You are happy. Congrats. NOW, say fifteen minutes later, an appraiser brings $1,000,000,000 CASH for your cards, and begs you for them back. YOU CANNOT BUY BACK YOUR CARDS. Follow fucking litigation. Stop with this nonsense, PLEASE. Actually, you can buy back your cards. The key word though, is BUY BACK. | ||
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Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
On September 20 2011 03:50 Fionn wrote: Are you under contract with TeamLiquid? What if an Arabian upstart e-sports community/team wanted you and would buy you in piles of gold? It wouldnt matter, a contract is a contract. In hockey for example, new draft picks are signed to an entry level contract for 3 years. They are routinely offered millions of dollars by the KHL to play in Russia. They dont break it, because they cant. It is a legal document and you can be sued for breaking it. If you get offered tons after you sign a contract that simply means you signed for less than you were worth, and thats nobodys fault but your own. I honestly hope complexity sues millenium and wins. | ||
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Vul
United States685 Posts
What is clear is that he signed with complexity for some reason and then got cold feet. Who knows why he didn't end up wanting to honor his contract with coL, it could just be guilt/loyalty to a French team. But I'm not sure if he even knows that this has gone public yet, because I doubt he reads this forum or coL's website (again, probably not reading English websites). He may be under the impression that it is okay for him to back out of the contract (since Millenium is probably telling him that it is alright and what he should do, etc.). If that's the case, he probably didn't know until after he backed out from signing with complexity that it would be a major shit storm. Of course I am just conjecturing, but I'm conjecturing under what I think is a valid assumption. I think Millenium is looking out for Millenium and Complexity is looking out for Complexity. And in the middle you have Stephano who probably did not entirely understand the situation, or did not communicate properly with the right parties, probably because he doesn't speak English. I think Naniwa was just joking about Stephano doing this for the money. But it's clear to me that a move this bad wouldn't be calculated. Bottom line is Stephano fucked up hard, but it really doesn't seem like it was on purpose. But really we just have to wait for more information before anything can be said for certain. | ||
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XRaDiiX
Canada1730 Posts
On September 20 2011 03:51 Noxie wrote: They did the exact same thing with vVvTitan. Care to Elaborate? | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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Terrik
Singapore35 Posts
Going after Stephano publicly is not the best thing to do due to the fallout from fan/french boys. Let him break his contract but make sure compensation is paid for the loss of reputation or at the very least put Stephano on suspension so he cannot bad mouth Complexity and their sponsors. E-sports is growing and the last thing we need is this kind of unprofessional behavior. If players are allowed to break contracts because teams are afraid of the fallout from fans, the scene will be stuck and no one will be willing to commit money into it. | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
On September 20 2011 03:56 Vul wrote: I think part of the problem is that Stephano does not speak English, iirc. It is easy to see how he could be misinformed or confused, given that. Of course he speaks English - he's a well educated young guy. | ||
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Merfyn
United Kingdom945 Posts
On September 20 2011 03:33 LordJerith wrote: We had a similar issue last year with vVv Titan. We brought a lawyer on board to discuss the validity of Complexity's contracts. You can listen to that show right HERE. I recommend anyone interested take a listen. Here is a brief synopsis of the show: "When questions arise about contracts and competitive gaming, The Loser's Bracket turns to attorney Graham Claybrook for advice. Starcraft player vVv Titan explains his recent contractual dealings with another gaming organization (we will leave them anonoymous to protect the guilty) and Graham helps us to understand our legal rights as well as how players can protect themselves. " The Loser's Bracket Podcast -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- there you go. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On September 20 2011 02:44 Jtom wrote:The techniques used by Complexity to recruit Stephano were quite disorienting to influence our young player towards a bad decision. After a long discussion, Stephano understood his mistake and decided to stay with Millenium for the next 12 months Those are some serious accusations levied by Millenium without any supporting evidence. It almost seems like Millennium did the "disorienting" themselves, influencing Stephano to break a legally binding contract in one "long conversation." I hope there is more to Millenium's side of the story, but given their statements thusfar, it's extremely hard to sympathize with them. | ||
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Jinivus
747 Posts
On September 20 2011 03:56 Vul wrote: I think part of the problem is that Stephano does not speak English, iirc. It is easy to see how he could be misinformed or confused, given that. What is clear is that he signed with complexity for some reason and then got cold feet. Who knows why he didn't end up wanting to honor his contract with coL, it could just be guilt/loyalty to a French team. But I'm not sure if he even knows that this has gone public yet, because I doubt he reads this forum or coL's website (again, probably not reading English websites). He may be under the impression that it is okay for him to back out of the contract (since Millenium is probably telling him that it is alright and what he should do, etc.). If that's the case, he probably didn't know until after he backed out from signing with complexity that it would be a major shit storm. Of course I am just conjecturing, but I'm conjecturing under what I think is a valid assumption. I think Millenium is looking out for Millenium and Complexity is looking out for Complexity. And in the middle you have Stephano who probably did not entirely understand the situation, or did not communicate properly with the right parties, probably because he doesn't speak English. I think Naniwa was just joking about Stephano doing this for the money. But it's clear to me that a move this bad wouldn't be calculated. Bottom line is Stephano fucked up hard, but it really doesn't seem like it was on purpose. But really we just have to wait for more information before anything can be said for certain. Why? I bet he's making more money than he was before. | ||
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havox_
Germany442 Posts
On September 20 2011 03:50 Fionn wrote: Are you under contract with TeamLiquid? What if an Arabian upstart e-sports community/team wanted you and would buy you in piles of gold? Are you trying to say: If somebody is gonna give you tons of money, it would be ok to break a contract? :D But I can actually tell you the solution of your "problem" and maybe you have heard about it before... these mysterious player transfers in real sports? :p So the Arabians would have to pay TL and buy him out of the contract, shocking news, hum? | ||
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Gwal
Spain20 Posts
On September 20 2011 03:53 GreEny K wrote: I don't see how this is Millennium not honoring their contract... If Stephano doesn't want to switch to coL, then that does not involve Mill at all. +1 User was warned for this post | ||
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
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Fionn
United States23455 Posts
On September 20 2011 03:55 gulati wrote: Dude... STOP thinking that Stephano was born without a brain! CONTRACTS have risks and rewards. Stephano did not have a fucking gun held to his head. He acted under his best interests. Let me give you a fucking example: If you sell a card collection of baseball cards, which you bought for $1, and you sell them for $20, you made a 20x profit. You are happy. Congrats. NOW, say fifteen minutes later, an appraiser brings $1,000,000,000 CASH for your cards, and begs you for them back. YOU CANNOT BUY BACK YOUR CARDS. Follow fucking litigation. Stop with this nonsense, PLEASE. It was a joke. Humor. I thought that was clear when I used the phrase Arabian e-sports team and piles of gold. Calm down. | ||
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Headnoob
Australia2108 Posts
 On an actual related note though, certainly going to be interesting to see how this develops, stephano is quite the popular person it seems! | ||
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algue
France1436 Posts
Complexity : " *nods* yeah" Millenium : "good , ur mad" Complexity : "FUUUUUUUUUUUUU" User was warned for this post | ||
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On September 20 2011 03:55 Chill wrote: No. I would probably sign a contract with them and fulfill it to take their money. One of the worst posts I've ever seen here. I can't even understand what your point is. "What if someone paid you for the work you're volunteering? THEN WHAT WOULD YOU DO???" ??? Ahahaha. I'm glad you resonded before I did. I have no idea what the hell this guys point is. Edit: He posted a few above me. Yeah, it would be funny if it was at all relevant and Chill was a contracted person, too bad he's a volunteer >.> | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On September 20 2011 03:55 gulati wrote: Dude... STOP thinking that Stephano was born without a brain! CONTRACTS have risks and rewards. Stephano did not have a fucking gun held to his head. He acted under his best interests. Let me give you a fucking example: If you sell a card collection of baseball cards, which you bought for $1, and you sell them for $20, you made a 20x profit. You are happy. Congrats. NOW, say fifteen minutes later, an appraiser brings $1,000,000,000 CASH for your cards, and begs you for them back. YOU CANNOT BUY BACK YOUR CARDS. Follow fucking litigation. Stop with this nonsense, PLEASE. There are plenty of ways you can coerce someone naive enough into signing a contract without really considering it and taking time to think, and it hasn't been unheard of in e-sports either. Then we also have this, from like a week ago: @mbCARMAC Michal Blicharz A "pro" gaming team offered a top player a good salary, but wouldn't show him the contract until he committed to join. #thisisesports too... | ||
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