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Stephano contract situation - Page 23

Forum Index > SC2 General
3152 CommentsPost a Reply
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Lack of content, flaming (of the French or anyone) and useless posts will be punished. Please keep it from being too inflammatory and keep discussion on-topic. -semioldguy (p.103)

Update: Please read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267506#1 and continue the discussion there.
Trowa127
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1230 Posts
September 19 2011 19:00 GMT
#441
It is really, really important that coL pursue this to the very end. If people aren't obligated to comply with contracts, literally anything can happen.
Bling, MC, Snute, HwangSin, Deranging (<3) fan. 'Full name - ESP ORTS' Vote hotbid. Vote ESPORTS.
ArnaudF
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
France993 Posts
September 19 2011 19:01 GMT
#442
This is ridiculous, come on Stephano, you're ruining your image -_-.
My heart aches with pain, When I see you I vomit, Die away from me
MenSol[ZerO]
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada1134 Posts
September 19 2011 19:01 GMT
#443
hopefully they can settle outside of court and millennium apologizes and pays complexity a decent sum of money.

stephano u dun goof'd
Prime/MarineKing!!! www.twitter.com/DayTripperSC
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
September 19 2011 19:01 GMT
#444
On September 20 2011 03:58 havox_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 03:50 Fionn wrote:
On September 20 2011 03:48 Chill wrote:
I'm glad col is taking a stand. It was starting to look like contracts in SC2 were meaningless.


Are you under contract with TeamLiquid? What if an Arabian upstart e-sports community/team wanted you and would buy you in piles of gold?

Are you trying to say: If somebody is gonna give you tons of money, it would be ok to break a contract? :D

But I can actually tell you the solution of your "problem" and maybe you have heard about it before...
these mysterious player transfers in real sports? :p So the Arabians would have to pay TL and buy him out of the contract, shocking news, hum?


I was joking. I am 100% on Complexity's side if he signed a contract. I want Starcraft, to you know, actually be respected as an e-sport. If people don't respect contracts, I can see why sport sites like CBS or Yahoo would make fun of people acting like SC2 could be a real sport with loads of money getting produced from it.

Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
GoStyle
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom95 Posts
September 19 2011 19:02 GMT
#445
,,,,,, talk about burning bridges lol lets just hope this silliness doesnt happen more often
Cel.erity
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4890 Posts
September 19 2011 19:02 GMT
#446
I don't see what could be disorienting about signing a contract with a pro team. They offer X, you accept X, sign on the dotted line. If Stephano did not read the terms correctly or changed his mind later, that is totally his fault for signing a legally binding contract. This whole situation makes him look terribly immature.

On the other hand, does Complexity really want to fight to keep Stephano around at this point? He clearly will not be happy with the team after requesting takebacksies, and what's the point of "owning" a player that doesn't even want to be a part of your organization?

Just a sad day for everyone involved.
We found Dove in a soapless place.
Deathmanbob
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2356 Posts
September 19 2011 19:03 GMT
#447
I really cant believe that MIL would just blatantly disrespect CoL and the contract that the player signed, lots of respect lost for them
No Artosis, you are robin
WArped
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom4845 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-19 19:03:50
September 19 2011 19:03 GMT
#448
On September 20 2011 03:58 Jinivus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 03:56 Vul wrote:
I think part of the problem is that Stephano does not speak English, iirc. It is easy to see how he could be misinformed or confused, given that.

What is clear is that he signed with complexity for some reason and then got cold feet. Who knows why he didn't end up wanting to honor his contract with coL, it could just be guilt/loyalty to a French team.

But I'm not sure if he even knows that this has gone public yet, because I doubt he reads this forum or coL's website (again, probably not reading English websites).

He may be under the impression that it is okay for him to back out of the contract (since Millenium is probably telling him that it is alright and what he should do, etc.). If that's the case, he probably didn't know until after he backed out from signing with complexity that it would be a major shit storm.

Of course I am just conjecturing, but I'm conjecturing under what I think is a valid assumption. I think Millenium is looking out for Millenium and Complexity is looking out for Complexity. And in the middle you have Stephano who probably did not entirely understand the situation, or did not communicate properly with the right parties, probably because he doesn't speak English.

I think Naniwa was just joking about Stephano doing this for the money. But it's clear to me that a move this bad wouldn't be calculated. Bottom line is Stephano fucked up hard, but it really doesn't seem like it was on purpose. But really we just have to wait for more information before anything can be said for certain.

Why? I bet he's making more money than he was before.


Are you suggesting Stephano thought, "Hey how about I sign a contract with another team to blackmail my way into more money with Millenium"?

No.
StateAlchemist
Profile Joined January 2011
France1946 Posts
September 19 2011 19:03 GMT
#449
wtf, why is there always drama when it comes to players
TheHova
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United Kingdom2612 Posts
September 19 2011 19:03 GMT
#450
On September 20 2011 04:00 algue wrote:
Millenium : "u mad bro ?"

Complexity : " *nods* yeah"

Millenium : "good , ur mad"

Complexity : "FUUUUUUUUUUUUU"


One of the worst posts i've seen in awhile. And the last LR made my soul die alittle inside.
Emporio
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3069 Posts
September 19 2011 19:03 GMT
#451
On September 20 2011 04:02 Cel.erity wrote:
I don't see what could be disorienting about signing a contract with a pro team. They offer X, you accept X, sign on the dotted line. If Stephano did not read the terms correctly or changed his mind later, that is totally his fault for signing a legally binding contract. This whole situation makes him look terribly immature.

On the other hand, does Complexity really want to fight to keep Stephano around at this point? He clearly will not be happy with the team after requesting takebacksies, and what's the point of "owning" a player that doesn't even want to be a part of your organization?

Just a sad day for everyone involved.

They have to fight, not necessarily to keep Stephano, which I'm pretty sure won't happen, but because someone has to at some point.
How does it feel knowing you wasted another 3 seconds of your life reading this again?
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
September 19 2011 19:03 GMT
#452
On September 20 2011 04:02 Cel.erity wrote:
I don't see what could be disorienting about signing a contract with a pro team. They offer X, you accept X, sign on the dotted line. If Stephano did not read the terms correctly or changed his mind later, that is totally his fault for signing a legally binding contract. This whole situation makes him look terribly immature.

On the other hand, does Complexity really want to fight to keep Stephano around at this point? He clearly will not be happy with the team after requesting takebacksies, and what's the point of "owning" a player that doesn't even want to be a part of your organization?

Just a sad day for everyone involved.


They don't want him if he doesnt want to be on that team. but they do want compensation for breach of contract.
twitch.tv/medrea
JKira
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada1002 Posts
September 19 2011 19:04 GMT
#453
On September 20 2011 03:59 Gwal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 03:53 GreEny K wrote:
I don't see how this is Millennium not honoring their contract... If Stephano doesn't want to switch to coL, then that does not involve Mill at all.

+1


He doesn't want to go to coL anymore after signing a contract BECAUSE of Mill...how does that not involve Mill?
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-19 19:04:39
September 19 2011 19:04 GMT
#454
On September 20 2011 04:03 WArped wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 03:58 Jinivus wrote:
On September 20 2011 03:56 Vul wrote:
I think part of the problem is that Stephano does not speak English, iirc. It is easy to see how he could be misinformed or confused, given that.

What is clear is that he signed with complexity for some reason and then got cold feet. Who knows why he didn't end up wanting to honor his contract with coL, it could just be guilt/loyalty to a French team.

But I'm not sure if he even knows that this has gone public yet, because I doubt he reads this forum or coL's website (again, probably not reading English websites).

He may be under the impression that it is okay for him to back out of the contract (since Millenium is probably telling him that it is alright and what he should do, etc.). If that's the case, he probably didn't know until after he backed out from signing with complexity that it would be a major shit storm.

Of course I am just conjecturing, but I'm conjecturing under what I think is a valid assumption. I think Millenium is looking out for Millenium and Complexity is looking out for Complexity. And in the middle you have Stephano who probably did not entirely understand the situation, or did not communicate properly with the right parties, probably because he doesn't speak English.

I think Naniwa was just joking about Stephano doing this for the money. But it's clear to me that a move this bad wouldn't be calculated. Bottom line is Stephano fucked up hard, but it really doesn't seem like it was on purpose. But really we just have to wait for more information before anything can be said for certain.

Why? I bet he's making more money than he was before.


Are you suggesting Stephano thought, "Hey how about I sign a contract with another team to blackmail my way into more money with Millenium"?

No.


Why not? Happens all the damn time. Well except for the signing part. he goofed up that part.
twitch.tv/medrea
Attero
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada271 Posts
September 19 2011 19:04 GMT
#455
US vs French - This is kind of like the MajOr issue where you give a young person a contract and they just disregard it completely. Stephano is a brilliant person and I'm sure this will all get cleared up professionally though.
Retired SC2 Professional | The Beaver Show | twitch.tv/OmniAttero
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-19 19:06:02
September 19 2011 19:04 GMT
#456
I love when people talk about suing and compensations when they have no clue about Law ( let alone French Law ).
Bad PR for everyone but nothing will happen.
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
coljbass
Profile Joined June 2011
United States42 Posts
September 19 2011 19:04 GMT
#457
On September 20 2011 04:00 Talin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 03:55 gulati wrote:
On September 20 2011 03:50 Fionn wrote:
On September 20 2011 03:48 Chill wrote:
I'm glad col is taking a stand. It was starting to look like contracts in SC2 were meaningless.


Are you under contract with TeamLiquid? What if an Arabian upstart e-sports community/team wanted you and would buy you in piles of gold?


Dude... STOP thinking that Stephano was born without a brain! CONTRACTS have risks and rewards. Stephano did not have a fucking gun held to his head. He acted under his best interests.

Let me give you a fucking example: If you sell a card collection of baseball cards, which you bought for $1, and you sell them for $20, you made a 20x profit. You are happy. Congrats. NOW, say fifteen minutes later, an appraiser brings $1,000,000,000 CASH for your cards, and begs you for them back. YOU CANNOT BUY BACK YOUR CARDS. Follow fucking litigation. Stop with this nonsense, PLEASE.


There are plenty of ways you can coerce someone naive enough into signing a contract without really considering it and taking time to think, and it hasn't been unheard of in e-sports either.

Then we also have this, from like a week ago:

@mbCARMAC
Michal Blicharz
A "pro" gaming team offered a top player a good salary, but wouldn't show him the contract until he committed to join. #thisisesports too...


I can assure you that Carmac's quote was not about us. Stephano had several versions of the contract for weeks.
Charger
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2405 Posts
September 19 2011 19:04 GMT
#458
On September 20 2011 04:02 Cel.erity wrote:
I don't see what could be disorienting about signing a contract with a pro team. They offer X, you accept X, sign on the dotted line. If Stephano did not read the terms correctly or changed his mind later, that is totally his fault for signing a legally binding contract. This whole situation makes him look terribly immature.

On the other hand, does Complexity really want to fight to keep Stephano around at this point? He clearly will not be happy with the team after requesting takebacksies, and what's the point of "owning" a player that doesn't even want to be a part of your organization?

Just a sad day for everyone involved.


coL already stated they won't keep a player on their team who doesn't want to be there. HOWEVER, they will also be seeking damages, likely in the form of Mill having to buy out Stephano's coL contract or something of that nature.
It's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback.
Novalisk
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Israel1818 Posts
September 19 2011 19:04 GMT
#459
On September 20 2011 03:58 Merfyn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 03:57 XRaDiiX wrote:
On September 20 2011 03:51 Noxie wrote:
They did the exact same thing with vVvTitan.


Care to Elaborate?

Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 03:33 LordJerith wrote:
We had a similar issue last year with vVv Titan. We brought a lawyer on board to discuss the validity of Complexity's contracts. You can listen to that show right HERE.

I recommend anyone interested take a listen. Here is a brief synopsis of the show:

"When questions arise about contracts and competitive gaming, The Loser's Bracket turns to attorney Graham Claybrook for advice. Starcraft player vVv Titan explains his recent contractual dealings with another gaming organization (we will leave them anonoymous to protect the guilty) and Graham helps us to understand our legal rights as well as how players can protect themselves. "

The Loser's Bracket Podcast

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


there you go.


Validity of the contract? How players can protect themselves?

Sorry but I'd like more details than that. Besides, vVv is more of a clan than a team, and LordJerith has left a bad impression on me as a team manager before(berating his staff and expecting a lot for little).
/commercial
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-19 19:05:11
September 19 2011 19:05 GMT
#460
On September 20 2011 04:04 Medrea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 04:03 WArped wrote:
On September 20 2011 03:58 Jinivus wrote:
On September 20 2011 03:56 Vul wrote:
I think part of the problem is that Stephano does not speak English, iirc. It is easy to see how he could be misinformed or confused, given that.

What is clear is that he signed with complexity for some reason and then got cold feet. Who knows why he didn't end up wanting to honor his contract with coL, it could just be guilt/loyalty to a French team.

But I'm not sure if he even knows that this has gone public yet, because I doubt he reads this forum or coL's website (again, probably not reading English websites).

He may be under the impression that it is okay for him to back out of the contract (since Millenium is probably telling him that it is alright and what he should do, etc.). If that's the case, he probably didn't know until after he backed out from signing with complexity that it would be a major shit storm.

Of course I am just conjecturing, but I'm conjecturing under what I think is a valid assumption. I think Millenium is looking out for Millenium and Complexity is looking out for Complexity. And in the middle you have Stephano who probably did not entirely understand the situation, or did not communicate properly with the right parties, probably because he doesn't speak English.

I think Naniwa was just joking about Stephano doing this for the money. But it's clear to me that a move this bad wouldn't be calculated. Bottom line is Stephano fucked up hard, but it really doesn't seem like it was on purpose. But really we just have to wait for more information before anything can be said for certain.

Why? I bet he's making more money than he was before.


Are you suggesting Stephano thought, "Hey how about I sign a contract with another team to blackmail my way into more money with Millenium"?

No.


Why not? Happens all the damn time. Well except for the signing part. he goofed up that part.


Where? Never heard of it happening in Starcraft.
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