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Stephano contract situation - Page 112

Forum Index > SC2 General
3152 CommentsPost a Reply
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Lack of content, flaming (of the French or anyone) and useless posts will be punished. Please keep it from being too inflammatory and keep discussion on-topic. -semioldguy (p.103)

Update: Please read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267506#1 and continue the discussion there.
BarbieHsu
Profile Joined September 2011
574 Posts
September 19 2011 23:48 GMT
#2221
What law should apply? US law which says this is breach? French law which says he can back out?

Where did he sign this contract?
ellirc
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden3286 Posts
September 19 2011 23:48 GMT
#2222
On September 20 2011 08:39 MyRevenge wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 08:32 arbitrageur wrote:
On September 20 2011 08:28 MyRevenge wrote:
On September 20 2011 08:13 darkscream wrote:
It's amazing how many people are posting in this thread that have less than 5 posts and are from France. I don't have a huge post count either but come on guys, you just showed up on TL to troll this thread, it's very transparent.. >_>

I just registered something like 24 hours ago, I couldn't already know about this drama :D

I think this situation doesn't deserves so many reactions, because eventually it's quite simple :

-As someone said before, Stephano obviously didn't receive any money, and broke his contract less than 24 hours after signing it. I don't think coL can win anything from legal pursuit.
-Stephano is for sure immature, as many 18 years old boys.
-Relying on Millenium, there's some mistakes in the contract between coL and Stephano, so that they shouldn't be able to engage legal pursuit under french law.
-Millenium made a strange move, but even though it's mostly Stephano's job to speak with his manager from Millenium before joining another team, is that really right to steal a player (even though he had no legal contract (which doesn't mean he had no engagement towards Millenium)) without telling it to Lewellys before ?

I think that all of them are wrong. They'd better not make public threads but fix this situation in private.

You think that all of them are wrong, based on your extensive research into all their actions and international contract law? Rofl. You clearly have 0 information in your brain to know what you claim to know.

I'll make it simpler :

- If coL engage legal pursuit, they won't have any compensation, or a ridiculous one.
- Stephano maybe behaved like a kid, but he's just 18 years old, does it deserve 3 000 posts about it?
- Both Stephano & coL should have told Millenium about this contract. Even though he had no legal contract, Stephano was still engaged with Millenium.
- Millenium's reaction is unfair too, maybe even illegal.

Eventually, no one of them make benefits from this situation. That's why I just said they were all wrong and should better fix this in private. Got it?

Hello Millenium

This could have been private if everything was handled correctly.
French fries
Profile Joined September 2011
France3 Posts
September 19 2011 23:49 GMT
#2223
On September 20 2011 08:47 AIOL! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 08:46 French fries wrote:
France 1-0 USA

Ban plz -_-



Pas cool mec T__T
Si on peux plus faire d'humour
zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
September 19 2011 23:50 GMT
#2224
Stephano has handled this almost perfectly. What he should do now is announce an announcement (since he hasn't taken up enough of the TL forums today), announcing a one-hour special next week where he sits down with djWheat and decides which team he's going to join. He can call it "the Decision."
"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
SoKHo
Profile Joined April 2011
Korea (South)1081 Posts
September 19 2011 23:50 GMT
#2225
Feels like so many people just made an account today to post on this thread O_O I hate drama + I don't want to take sides.
"If you don't understand my silence, you won't understand my words"|| Big Nal_rA fan boy!! Nal_rA, Bisu, Huk, MC, Hero fighting! SKT1---->
exShikari
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia237 Posts
September 19 2011 23:51 GMT
#2226
On September 20 2011 08:46 French fries wrote:
France 1-0 USA

Please leave and don't come back.
It is, in the end, whatever the Hell I want it to be, And when I'm through with it, it's gonna blow a hole, This wide, straight through the worlds own idea of itself. They're throwing bottles at your house. Come on, lets go break their arms.
Assirra
Profile Joined August 2010
Belgium4169 Posts
September 19 2011 23:51 GMT
#2227
On September 20 2011 08:50 SoKHo wrote:
Feels like so many people just made an account today to post on this thread O_O I hate drama + I don't want to take sides.

That is how it always goes with drama.
Should IPban those kind of accounts, i promise you it will would lessen dramatically
AIOL!
Profile Joined January 2011
France962 Posts
September 19 2011 23:52 GMT
#2228
On September 20 2011 08:47 Piotr wrote:
I wrote a first post on this subject sooner but let’s do it again. (I’m French sorry for my poor English, have read TL forum for years but I have never something interesting to say so this is my first day).

First of all I would like to say that if Stephano signed a legal contract in US, the French jurisdiction will certainly understand that and claimed that it is perfectly legal (unless it is against international treaties but it's obviously not). In fact when you are hired by a foreign company, you have to choose with your employer which country do you choose for the law. If you don't, the law is the one where you do your job. If you move a lot for your job, the law is where your company is. The determination of the law court is totally dependent of the choice made for the applicable law. Stephano can ask to bring the case behind a French one. This is the Convention of Rome for European countries and it is used for other countries as well. Labor law in France is not mainly governed by laws but it's governed by case law and collective bargaining. The law just gives the main lines (no work under 18, no harassment etc). That's why in order to understand a case, you have to know many other cases.

The convention of Rome is a convention between European countries but all the cases between France and a foreign country that I know are stated in regard of the convention of Rome. The convention of Rome is obviously not applied but, because France’s labor law is not law, the bases are used. Labor law in France is mainly governed by case law and collective bargaining. The law just gives the main lines (no work under 18, no harassment etc). Obviously if the foreign country breaks another convention (human rights, whatever...), convention of Rome is not used.

Stephano has apparently signed a contract with col on docusign. For those who think it’s just an informal thing, e-signing is integrated to the law of all the European countries and the United States by the ESIGN and by a European Directive from 1999. Because of the professionalism of docusign and col, I think that the contract must be totally legal and it will be accepted by a French court.
Someone says that in French law you have to sign a CDI in French. That’s right but Stephano has certainly not signed for a CDI. The fact is that we don’t know what Stephano has signed. Maybe it is an international contract. The French law doesn’t know international contract but the European does. I’m convinced, it depends on many facts that we don’t have, that French court will accept this contract.

In France we also have something that is called loyalty (maybe not always in history but in labor law we do :p ) : if you sign a second contract while you have already one employer, your first employer can say "oh, that's not fair, he just has signed whit X which is a direct concurrent", and can ask for compensation. It is obvious that it the case here. A particularly clause in the contract is not required for that. So, if Millenium wants to sign a contract with Stephano, the contract between col/stephano has to be cancelled.

Thus, this is another thing that is said: if Stephano has not signed anything with millenium, he just has to quit his job with CoL and to sign with Millenium. That's not that easy. We have to know the contract of Stephano to state on this because CoL can totally say in front of a court that Stephano quitted his job because Millenium was here (and it's obvious). Millenium’s debauch is totally legal but it can be stated by a court that it is an unfair competition and that there is a prejudice for col (economic, moral...). It is not unusual: on one hand in France the employee has always a preferential treatment but on the other hand you can see that as a conflict between two companies Millenium and col. On top of that esport and sport in general are really accustomed to this kind of things. Regarding the fact that the labor law is mainly governed by case law, it’s difficult to state.

My opinion is that Millenium doesn't look really professional in this case. For example they promise a CDI and say that Stephano will stay 12 months, that doesn't have any sense at all in France because CDI means permanent contract so you don’t have to talk about a period when you sign it, it can be used in front of a court by Stephano if for example Millenium decide to fire him after 12 months. (I don’t think so :p ) Also I think that coL will not go to court because it’s expensive, it’s a pity because a case law would be a good thing for esport. And Stephano looks very influenced, I wonder what his parents are doing right now if the contract of col was so gainful…


Pavé Cesar !!
Stephano!!!!!!/Nerchio/Mana/Hasuobs/Grubby/Kas/Tarson/Sarens/Goody/BeastyCury
exShikari
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia237 Posts
September 19 2011 23:52 GMT
#2229
On September 20 2011 08:49 French fries wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 08:47 AIOL! wrote:
On September 20 2011 08:46 French fries wrote:
France 1-0 USA

Ban plz -_-



Pas cool mec T__T
Si on peux plus faire d'humour

And English only...
It is, in the end, whatever the Hell I want it to be, And when I'm through with it, it's gonna blow a hole, This wide, straight through the worlds own idea of itself. They're throwing bottles at your house. Come on, lets go break their arms.
furerkip
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States439 Posts
September 19 2011 23:53 GMT
#2230
On September 20 2011 08:46 French fries wrote:
France 1-0 USA



Wow, with that reasoning, it only makes sense Stephano went back to Mill!
French fries
Profile Joined September 2011
France3 Posts
September 19 2011 23:53 GMT
#2231
I think both are unfair but the real problem is stephano, why he signed a contract if he didn't really want to join col?
He is just a kid, no wonder from him
solidONE
Profile Joined August 2010
United States160 Posts
September 19 2011 23:54 GMT
#2232
That's it. I'm going back to calling french fries freedom fries instead. This was the last straw.
Falcor
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada894 Posts
September 19 2011 23:54 GMT
#2233
since when is 18 "a kid"
Quintum_
Profile Joined May 2011
United States669 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-19 23:57:07
September 19 2011 23:54 GMT
#2234
On September 20 2011 08:39 MyRevenge wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 08:32 arbitrageur wrote:
On September 20 2011 08:28 MyRevenge wrote:
On September 20 2011 08:13 darkscream wrote:
It's amazing how many people are posting in this thread that have less than 5 posts and are from France. I don't have a huge post count either but come on guys, you just showed up on TL to troll this thread, it's very transparent.. >_>

I just registered something like 24 hours ago, I couldn't already know about this drama :D

I think this situation doesn't deserves so many reactions, because eventually it's quite simple :

-As someone said before, Stephano obviously didn't receive any money, and broke his contract less than 24 hours after signing it. I don't think coL can win anything from legal pursuit.
-Stephano is for sure immature, as many 18 years old boys.
-Relying on Millenium, there's some mistakes in the contract between coL and Stephano, so that they shouldn't be able to engage legal pursuit under french law.
-Millenium made a strange move, but even though it's mostly Stephano's job to speak with his manager from Millenium before joining another team, is that really right to steal a player (even though he had no legal contract (which doesn't mean he had no engagement towards Millenium)) without telling it to Lewellys before ?

I think that all of them are wrong. They'd better not make public threads but fix this situation in private.

You think that all of them are wrong, based on your extensive research into all their actions and international contract law? Rofl. You clearly have 0 information in your brain to know what you claim to know.

I'll make it simpler :

- If coL engage legal pursuit, they won't have any compensation, or a ridiculous one.
- Stephano maybe behaved like a kid, but he's just 18 years old, does it deserve 3 000 posts about it?
- Both Stephano & coL should have told Millenium about this contract. Even though he had no legal contract, Stephano was still engaged with Millenium.
- Millenium's reaction is unfair too, maybe even illegal.

Eventually, no one of them make benefits from this situation. That's why I just said they were all wrong and should better fix this in private. Got it?


Col. is not looking for any monetary compensation, or at least it most likely very low on there priority list. They are looking to protect there organization for the future. A player they signed broke there contract, if they dont go after him what is stop there other players from saying

"Hay that stephano guy broke his contract without any recourse, Team zxy just offed me x amount of money so i am going to go over there since Col wont do anything if i breach my contract with them"

I will wait to hear the other side of the story since there could still be things out there as things have come to light after the fact in past cases but in my point of view stephano messed up bad. If you are unsure about a contract dont sign it, get a second, third fourth ext. option untell you are sure about it. Right now all stephano can hope for is some loophole in the contract that col wrote to avoid legal action since it seems like col is going to be taking this to court.
♠ (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ ♠ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ♠ (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ ♠
Vendor
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada115 Posts
September 19 2011 23:55 GMT
#2235
On September 20 2011 08:54 Falcor wrote:
since when is 18 "a kid"


It's not but people seem to think it is now.
theBizness
Profile Joined July 2011
United States696 Posts
September 19 2011 23:55 GMT
#2236
18 is a "kid" when they do something wrong, but when they want more rights they are "adult". People love to have it both ways.
Less money for casters, more money for players.
chrisgreg
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada61 Posts
September 19 2011 23:55 GMT
#2237
complexity won't be making that mistake again, we will all learn from this i think
Supporting Team EG and Team IM
hypnoxide
Profile Joined August 2011
240 Posts
September 19 2011 23:56 GMT
#2238
On September 20 2011 08:49 French fries wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 08:47 AIOL! wrote:
On September 20 2011 08:46 French fries wrote:
France 1-0 USA

Ban plz -_-



Pas cool mec T__T
Si on peux plus faire d'humour

France getting raped in every modern war:

Everyone: 1
France: -9001

User was warned for this post
Proud hipster of the SlayersCoCa fanclub!
Gheed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States972 Posts
September 19 2011 23:57 GMT
#2239
On September 20 2011 08:55 chrisgreg wrote:
complexity won't be making that mistake again, we will all learn from this i think


What mistake? Dealing with Europeans? Their deals with Koreans seem to have been successful thus far.
s4life
Profile Joined March 2007
Peru1519 Posts
September 19 2011 23:58 GMT
#2240
On September 20 2011 08:55 chrisgreg wrote:
complexity won't be making that mistake again, we will all learn from this i think


If they don't go after Stephano, they possibly will go through this again with any other international player who can protect himself in his own countries laws... this is such shitty situation for everyone involved. e-sports didn't need any of this.
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