EPTI do hope that col. ends up getting Stephano, out of no hate for anyone in this situation. If you sign a legal contract, you should be binded to it.
Stephano contract situation - Page 111
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Lack of content, flaming (of the French or anyone) and useless posts will be punished. Please keep it from being too inflammatory and keep discussion on-topic. -semioldguy (p.103) Update: Please read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267506#1 and continue the discussion there. | ||
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
I do hope that col. ends up getting Stephano, out of no hate for anyone in this situation. If you sign a legal contract, you should be binded to it. | ||
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Linwelin
Ireland7554 Posts
On September 20 2011 08:33 Eisenheim wrote: Already says that, but really unfair for coL. Yeah they just have to use any MVP member and win ez | ||
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hypnoxide
240 Posts
On September 20 2011 08:34 Paladia wrote: Having a law firm doesn't say anything about how good he is at international contract law. As for posting legal threats on Twitter, that is hardly professional. Even doing it in public is bad enough. Do you see any large professional company post legal threats on twitter or on forums? Both parties just sound like amateurs in this case. Since when have people been against transparency? | ||
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bobthebo
101 Posts
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s4life
Peru1519 Posts
On September 20 2011 08:34 shortsteve wrote: It's quite simple really. Players get offered money by organizations depending on how much that organization values them. Value in a player has a lot of factors, of course being good is a given, but that's not all. If that was all then a ton of Korean players would be getting tons of offers. The other part is how marketable the player is. At the moment most of the eSports money is in foreign organizations hands and that's why you see players like Huk and Stephano get offered tons of money. They're good and they're foreign so they're more marketable. Having more marketable players on your team makes you more appealing to fans, you reach a wider audience and in return also makes sponsors happy. This is why personalities in the community are offered contracts by pro teams. People like Artosis who doesn't play professionally anymore can get contracted with a team like sixjax or like Wolf who's a part of FXO. Even though they don't provide much to the team in terms of gameplay they're great personalities and helps promote the team to the community and to sponsors. In professional sports you see this happen all the time. It's why players like TO, Michael Vick, Shaq, or Allen Iverson are able to stay in the league so long. Even if they're past their prime, considered a disruption, or even convicted felons they're personalities that people hear about and talk about often. It gives whatever team/organization more buzz and therefore more viewers/fans which in turn becomes more sponsorship money. TO, Michael Vick and Iverson (Shaq does not belong in that list) were given a pass because they were exceptionally good at what they did.. not because they were popular in the first place.. you have it all backwards | ||
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MyRevenge
France12 Posts
On September 20 2011 08:32 arbitrageur wrote: You think that all of them are wrong, based on your extensive research into all their actions and international contract law? Rofl. You clearly have 0 information in your brain to know what you claim to know. I'll make it simpler : - If coL engage legal pursuit, they won't have any compensation, or a ridiculous one. - Stephano maybe behaved like a kid, but he's just 18 years old, does it deserve 3 000 posts about it? - Both Stephano & coL should have told Millenium about this contract. Even though he had no legal contract, Stephano was still engaged with Millenium. - Millenium's reaction is unfair too, maybe even illegal. Eventually, no one of them make benefits from this situation. That's why I just said they were all wrong and should better fix this in private. Got it? | ||
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darthfoley
United States8001 Posts
Strange situation | ||
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Tarias
Netherlands480 Posts
On September 20 2011 08:39 MyRevenge wrote: I'll make it simpler : - If coL engage legal pursuit, they won't have any compensation, or a ridiculous one. - Stephano maybe behaved like a kid, but he's just 18 years old, does it deserve 3 000 posts about it? - Both Stephano & coL should have told Millenium about this contract. Even though he had no legal contract, Stephano was still engaged with Millenium. - Millenium's reaction is unfair too, maybe even illegal. Eventually, no one of them make benefits from this situation. That's why I just said they were all wrong and should better fix this in private. Got it? He isn't asking for a simpeler version, he's asking for arguments and reasonings.. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On September 20 2011 08:37 Shebuha wrote: But he... signed a contract? I do hope that col. ends up getting Stephano, out of no hate for anyone in this situation. If you sign a legal contract, you should be binded to it. He is not a thing you know. They can't simply "get" him when he doesn't want to, won't be good for anyone. | ||
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hypnoxide
240 Posts
On September 20 2011 08:39 MyRevenge wrote: I'll make it simpler : - If coL engage legal pursuit, they won't have any compensation, or a ridiculous one. - Stephano maybe behaved like a kid, but he's just 18 years old, does it deserve 3 000 posts about it? - Both Stephano & coL should have told Millenium about this contract. Even though he had no legal contract, Stephano was still engaged with Millenium. - Millenium's reaction is unfair too, maybe even illegal. Eventually, no one of them make benefits from this situation. That's why I just said they were all wrong and should better fix this in private. Got it? ......Millenium DID know about the negotiations, hence the offer/counter-offers. On September 20 2011 08:42 Assirra wrote: He is not a thing you know. They can't simply "get" him when he doesn't want to, won't be good for anyone. He seemed to be happy to sign it earlier. Send him to complexity. | ||
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s4life
Peru1519 Posts
On September 20 2011 08:42 Assirra wrote: He is not a thing you know. They can't simply "get" him when he doesn't want to, won't be good for anyone. I doubt they are trying to get him now.. I hope they sue his ass -- and millenium's -- for a whole lotta money though.. bunch of unprofessional pricks. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On September 20 2011 08:43 hypnoxide wrote: He seemed to be happy to sign it earlier. Send him to complexity. Yeah in a sealed bag branded: Fresh Products. | ||
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Falcor
Canada894 Posts
On September 20 2011 08:39 MyRevenge wrote: I'll make it simpler : - If coL engage legal pursuit, they won't have any compensation, or a ridiculous one. - Stephano maybe behaved like a kid, but he's just 18 years old, does it deserve 3 000 posts about it? - Both Stephano & coL should have told Millenium about this contract. Even though he had no legal contract, Stephano was still engaged with Millenium. - Millenium's reaction is unfair too, maybe even illegal. Eventually, no one of them make benefits from this situation. That's why I just said they were all wrong and should better fix this in private. Got it? col and millenium were in negotiations for 2 weeks. sending counter offers back and forth. millenium knew col was in talks with stephano because they were at the bargaining table while it was happening... | ||
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shortsteve
29 Posts
On September 20 2011 08:38 s4life wrote: TO, Michael Vick and Iverson (Shaq does not belong in that list) were given a pass because they were exceptionally good at what they did.. not because they were popular in the first place.. you have it all backwards not really, they got known because they were good. But even after they were past their prime they still received max contracts, because of their antics an popularity. Shaq recently retired, but I wouldn't be surprised that if he wanted to come back a team would sign him for a couple million. Michael Vick is a convicted felon, normally no organization would want to be associated with them, but because he caused a lot of buzz he's been given a second chance and is now one of the top paid players. Even when he wasn't being paid top money and sitting on the bench, when you talked about the Eagles you would talk about Michael Vick. | ||
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French fries
France3 Posts
User was banned for this post. | ||
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Val_
Ukraine156 Posts
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Piotr
26 Posts
First of all I would like to say that if Stephano signed a legal contract in US, the French jurisdiction will certainly understand that and claimed that it is perfectly legal (unless it is against international treaties but it's obviously not). In fact when you are hired by a foreign company, you have to choose with your employer which country do you choose for the law. If you don't, the law is the one where you do your job. If you move a lot for your job, the law is where your company is. The determination of the law court is totally dependent of the choice made for the applicable law. Stephano can ask to bring the case behind a French one. This is the Convention of Rome for European countries and it is used for other countries as well. Labor law in France is not mainly governed by laws but it's governed by case law and collective bargaining. The law just gives the main lines (no work under 18, no harassment etc). That's why in order to understand a case, you have to know many other cases. The convention of Rome is a convention between European countries but all the cases between France and a foreign country that I know are stated in regard of the convention of Rome. The convention of Rome is obviously not applied but, because France’s labor law is not law, the bases are used. Labor law in France is mainly governed by case law and collective bargaining. The law just gives the main lines (no work under 18, no harassment etc). Obviously if the foreign country breaks another convention (human rights, whatever...), convention of Rome is not used. Stephano has apparently signed a contract with col on docusign. For those who think it’s just an informal thing, e-signing is integrated to the law of all the European countries and the United States by the ESIGN and by a European Directive from 1999. Because of the professionalism of docusign and col, I think that the contract must be totally legal and it will be accepted by a French court. Someone says that in French law you have to sign a CDI in French. That’s right but Stephano has certainly not signed for a CDI. The fact is that we don’t know what Stephano has signed. Maybe it is an international contract. The French law doesn’t know international contract but the European does. I’m convinced, it depends on many facts that we don’t have, that French court will accept this contract. In France we also have something that is called loyalty (maybe not always in history but in labor law we do :p ) : if you sign a second contract while you have already one employer, your first employer can say "oh, that's not fair, he just has signed whit X which is a direct concurrent", and can ask for compensation. It is obvious that it the case here. A particularly clause in the contract is not required for that. So, if Millenium wants to sign a contract with Stephano, the contract between col/stephano has to be cancelled. Thus, this is another thing that is said: if Stephano has not signed anything with millenium, he just has to quit his job with CoL and to sign with Millenium. That's not that easy. We have to know the contract of Stephano to state on this because CoL can totally say in front of a court that Stephano quitted his job because Millenium was here (and it's obvious). Millenium’s debauch is totally legal but it can be stated by a court that it is an unfair competition and that there is a prejudice for col (economic, moral...). It is not unusual: on one hand in France the employee has always a preferential treatment but on the other hand you can see that as a conflict between two companies Millenium and col. On top of that esport and sport in general are really accustomed to this kind of things. Regarding the fact that the labor law is mainly governed by case law, it’s difficult to state. My opinion is that Millenium doesn't look really professional in this case. For example they promise a CDI and say that Stephano will stay 12 months, that doesn't have any sense at all in France because CDI means permanent contract so you don’t have to talk about a period when you sign it, it can be used in front of a court by Stephano if for example Millenium decide to fire him after 12 months. (I don’t think so :p ) Also I think that coL will not go to court because it’s expensive, it’s a pity because a case law would be a good thing for esport. And Stephano looks very influenced, I wonder what his parents are doing right now if the contract of col was so gainful… | ||
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BroboCop
United States373 Posts
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AIOL!
France962 Posts
On September 20 2011 08:46 French fries wrote: France 1-0 USA Ban plz -_- | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On September 20 2011 08:44 s4life wrote: I doubt they are trying to get him now.. I hope they sue his ass -- and millenium's -- for a whole lotta money though.. bunch of unprofessional pricks. sueing him would make CoL look the bad guy here tough. You can't just randomly sue ppl when you have a company/business to keep running. imagine having "ruining someone's carreer" on your name. Their best bet is Mil. if they want to prevent a bad reputation. It's sad this kind of stuff happens, but unless a system like KESPA exists they keeps stuff under control it will happen again and again. | ||
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