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I personally would really like to have coL sueing Stephano (he broke the contract not M - why should/could you sue them (apart from bad legal advice)?).
Not because I necessarily think they're right / wrong, but because I want to know who's right / wrong. Especially after coL was announcing that they're in the right and will probably sue someone, I think if they dont do it they've come to the conclusion that they'd lose.
The thing I learned today is that coL is using contractor's contracts and not employment contracts. Which is kinda sad, since the latter is better for protecting player's rights.
Overall I'd like to see some more contracts (or drafts of them not containing any numbers), since I think making those public would really benefit esports. (Judging if some teams exploit their players, or players demand too much).
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On September 20 2011 08:18 Eisenheim wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 08:15 qck wrote:
Huge respect for coL for being so calm in a situation that seems to be spiraling rapidly out of control. I haven't lost respect for either Stephano or Millenium, I can only hope the issue gets resolved amicably and quickly. Are you kidding ? Posting on TL for hundred pages of troll/rage/bash. it's not "being so calm", it's immature/amateur.
So everyone who is voicing in opposition towards Millennium and Stephano is from coL?
I was under the impression they were considered a fairly large team in regards to Starcraft 2 and seeing as this is the largest Starcraft 2 community it would make sense for them to make a statement after something like this comes up and their official posts have only been to clarify actual relevant questions about the issue.
So how is coL being immature?
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On September 20 2011 07:18 UNeeK wrote:
poor coL, such a class act organization.. I've been watching coL since they had a 1.6 team in cal-im and grinded their way to the very top of the scene, then when EG ripped them to shreds with an obvious poaching of their entire line-up.. Jason Lake deserves the best, he's more than a manager or owner, he puts his blood, sweat, and tears into coL's success and treats his players like his sons. I can understand Mill's sadness to see their new rising star leave, but that's the nature of the beast. I highly doubt coL did anything illegal or even borderline immoral to obtain Stephano... I hope in the end they do find a solid player and wether it be stephano or not, they deserve every ounce of success that they get.. Good Luck Jason, you deserve it!
I hold this same position dude. Back in 1.6 when he basically groomed frod, storm, bullseye, warden and tr1p to go from guys who loved to play the game to really have something to love and work for. Once I noticed Lake was getting in SC2 and was serious about it I had the utmost faith in CoL being big in the scene. I love what happened with MVP and they're making good moves.
I can see where the French uproar is coming from but really nothing is shady about this at all with CoL. Him backing out, not saying anything personally and Mill writing a sketchy and vague response that really doesn't answer any questions along with being (from what we can tell so far) false with their information is really unprofessional. I really hope things work out for CoL and if they decide to take it to court, I 100% suport them because they take eSports and SC2 seriously and not like a joke which these other organizations appear to be doing.
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On September 20 2011 08:19 Falcor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 08:18 Eisenheim wrote:On September 20 2011 08:15 qck wrote:
Huge respect for coL for being so calm in a situation that seems to be spiraling rapidly out of control. I haven't lost respect for either Stephano or Millenium, I can only hope the issue gets resolved amicably and quickly. Are you kidding ? Posting on TL for hundred pages of troll/rage/bash. it's not "being so calm", it's immature/amateur. everything is posted on tl? for a good reason this is the major "news" outlet for sc2
In this affair between the 3 parts, posting in TL is totally amateur.
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On September 20 2011 08:08 McDrew wrote:
Its not like stephano was actually paid any money by complexity yet. (at least i doubt it) Sure complexity can try to sue for 1 day's worth of damages, but come on people. If they're serious about "legitimizing e-sports" then a 3 am contract is definitely not that.
I don't get how you can define a contracts legitimacy by the time it was signed, The company I work for required me to sign a contract which I spent nearly 5 hours discussing personally the clauses of the contract with the owner of the business' and our respective lawyers, I proceeded to sign said contract at approximately 4:00am, The signing time of a contract doesn't determine its legitimacy, It's the contract itself, Complexity used an online Contracting service which I am willing to guarantee has few too little flaws/loopholes simply because to run a contracting service, you have to know what the fuck you're doing. It's not about the damages, it's the legal aspect of the situation, and stephano is ignoring it, Jason and Jason are not stupid, They will extend this to the furthest extent of the law possible, because that's what contracts are for.
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On September 20 2011 08:19 CEO wrote:
Why can't Complexity just cancel the contract and let it go? I don't care what Complexity will do towards Millennium, but they shouldn't harass Stephano about it. Stephano made a last-second decision about his SC2 career. And Complexity hasn't suffered anything from this. This is basically the same situation as it would've been if no contract were involved, except with a contract. I think the organisations should stop being so silly about this.
They have said that they want to pursue legal action because if a precedent is set where a player can sign a contract and then dgaf about it and do whatever they wish the next day it will be detrimental to esports. Jason Lake cares about esports as it is his livelihood and he is willing to fight to ensure the stability and credibility of contracts signed by players.
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On September 20 2011 08:13 darkscream wrote:
It's amazing how many people are posting in this thread that have less than 5 posts and are from France. I don't have a huge post count either but come on guys, you just showed up on TL to troll this thread, it's very transparent.. >_>
^^ to be fair, I am not a troll. however, I have posted more random info in this thread than probably any other. It isn't often we have news here worth talking about in the SC2 community. Sad the last two articles about France that I read were this one and the ESWC in Paris where apparently that is getting boycotted... but at least MKP is coming!!!
Hey, why can't I find good news France articles?
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On September 20 2011 08:20 solidONE wrote:
Him [Stephano] backing out, not saying anything personally [...] is really unprofessional.
That's actually the first professional thing he did. Not running around in the public and making official statements. Maybe he's even contacting a real lawyer.
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On September 20 2011 08:19 CEO wrote:
Why can't Complexity just cancel the contract and let it go?
Because that completely negates the purpose of even having contracts and negotiations in the first place.
On September 20 2011 08:19 CEO wrote:
I don't care what Complexity will do towards Millennium, but they shouldn't harass Stephano about it.
They haven't.
On September 20 2011 08:19 CEO wrote:
And Complexity hasn't suffered anything from this.
Says you. Complexity spend 2 weeks negotiating to gain a player, sent a contract, had it signed, and then didn't get the player. Not only have they spent weeks preparing for this, they will now have to spend weeks dealing with the fallout. And, they lost the player they wanted. That's not to mention the damage to their reputation as a legitimate esports team.
On September 20 2011 08:19 CEO wrote:
This is basically the same situation as it would've been if no contract were involved, except with a contract.
You don't see a problem with that?
What is with all the low post count people wandering in and shitting on complexity for no reason?
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I don't see how it is that Stephano signs a contract with complexity, backs out on it, and now coL is in the wrong for seeking legal counsel after Millenium won't even have a discussion with them?
Why isn't Millenium getting any heat for pressuring a player that was no longer theirs to violate his new contract? And these claims that coL used "disorienting" tactics to recruit him? That's practically slander. And now people are saying coL is trying to extort money from Mill? That's equally laughable. If coL did sue, at least they would be acting within the bounds of the law. That's more than you can say about Millenium's underhanded move. Millenium extorted a player from coL.
If anything, Millenium needs to take a hard look in the mirror and act with more professionalism. This isn't what TL did when Huk left for EG.
Mill needs to either offer their side of this story, or issue an apology to coL for their remarks. It's seriously fucked up to make that claim after reading that this was actually a two week process that Millenium was well aware of.
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On September 20 2011 08:22 Eisenheim wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 08:19 Falcor wrote:On September 20 2011 08:18 Eisenheim wrote:On September 20 2011 08:15 qck wrote:
Huge respect for coL for being so calm in a situation that seems to be spiraling rapidly out of control. I haven't lost respect for either Stephano or Millenium, I can only hope the issue gets resolved amicably and quickly. Are you kidding ? Posting on TL for hundred pages of troll/rage/bash. it's not "being so calm", it's immature/amateur. everything is posted on tl? for a good reason this is the major "news" outlet for sc2 In this affair between the 3 parts, posting in TL is totally amateur.
So responding to questions is amateur....right
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On September 20 2011 08:23 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 08:20 solidONE wrote:
Him [Stephano] backing out, not saying anything personally [...] is really unprofessional. That's actually the first professional thing he did. Not running around in the public and making official statements. Maybe he's even contacting a real lawyer.
its actually extremely unprofessional to ignore complexity's e-mails (which he and millenium are doing) and not even telling them you are changing your mind. Literally he said nothing to them and mill said he changed his mind lol.
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On September 20 2011 08:19 CEO wrote:
Why can't Complexity just cancel the contract and let it go? They shouldn't harass Stephano about it. Stephano made a last-second decision about his SC2 career. And Complexity hasn't suffered anything from this. This is basically the same situation as it would've been if no contract were involved, except with a contract. I think the organisations should stop being so silly about this.
becasue allowing something like this to happen not only kills the organization, but in this stage of the industry its very detrimental.
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Just what you'd except from the frenchies.
User was warned for this post
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Now that I think about it, isn't it kind of strange that Stephano showed Millenium the contract with Complexity in the first place? I mean, he must have known that any information he got from them would be biased.
That's the problem with signing a contract so young. Most likely hardly know what you're getting yourself into, and any lawyer can be clever enough with words to sway you either way, regardless of whats actually best. I'm sure the only 2 free lawyers available to him were either from Complexity or Millenium, both of which would be biased.
I wish we could have a lawyer from a separate team (say, EG) look at both contracts and give their opinion.
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On September 20 2011 08:19 CEO wrote:
Why can't Complexity just cancel the contract and let it go? I don't care what Complexity will do towards Millennium, but they shouldn't harass Stephano about it. Stephano made a last-second decision about his SC2 career. And Complexity hasn't suffered anything from this. This is basically the same situation as it would've been if no contract were involved, except with a contract. I think the organisations should stop being so silly about this.
Well it's not about Stephano, it's about the legitimacy of the contract. So once Stephano has gotten out of his contract so easily, what happens when another CoL player gets an offer from another team? Will they escape the contract too? Why even make contracts?
In order for coL to be successful as a business they have to honor contracts.
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On September 20 2011 08:20 Vendor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 08:18 Eisenheim wrote:On September 20 2011 08:15 qck wrote:
Huge respect for coL for being so calm in a situation that seems to be spiraling rapidly out of control. I haven't lost respect for either Stephano or Millenium, I can only hope the issue gets resolved amicably and quickly. Are you kidding ? Posting on TL for hundred pages of troll/rage/bash. it's not "being so calm", it's immature/amateur. So everyone who is voicing in opposition towards Millennium and Stephano is from coL? I was under the impression they were considered a fairly large team in regards to Starcraft 2 and seeing as this is the largest Starcraft 2 community it would make sense for them to make a statement after something like this comes up and their official posts have only been to clarify actual relevant questions about the issue. So how is coL being immature?
Clarify the situation and lock the post > Totally ok with that.
Post on TL (huge community of US players) and let use patriotism/whatever for troll/rage/bash a french team (we all know US loves french no ?) => Totally amateur in the "world of sport".
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On September 20 2011 08:19 CEO wrote:
Why can't Complexity just cancel the contract and let it go? They shouldn't harass Stephano about it. Stephano made a last-second decision about his SC2 career. And Complexity hasn't suffered anything from this. This is basically the same situation as it would've been if no contract were involved, except with a contract. I think the organisations should stop being so silly about this.
Because than what's the whole point of contracts?
If Mil get's away without any reproccussions or at the very least they could give us a statement as they are clearly in the wrong, than how do you think that makes "professional" gaming look like?
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On September 20 2011 08:20 Zocat wrote:
I personally would really like to have coL sueing Stephano (he broke the contract not M - why should/could you sue them (apart from bad legal advice)?).
Not because I necessarily think they're right / wrong, but because I want to know who's right / wrong. Especially after coL was announcing that they're in the right and will probably sue someone, I think if they dont do it they've come to the conclusion that they'd lose.
The thing I learned today is that coL is using contractor's contracts and not employment contracts. Which is kinda sad, since the latter is better for protecting player's rights.
Overall I'd like to see some more contracts (or drafts of them not containing any numbers), since I think making those public would really benefit esports. (Judging if some teams exploit their players, or players demand too much).
See, yet another flawed look upon a contract, a contract is determined by the terms written within, I am willing to guarantee the contract stephano signed was the same as any other complexity member chose to sign, It was a year long contract yet you're speaking as though it would have effected the rest of his life, He signed the contract, Complexity is entitled to him for the duration of that year unless paid or legally reprimanded otherwise, not all contracts are the same, It's the clauses within them that determine whether or not they're beneficiary for the player, in this case, Stephano would have had a much steadier Sc2 team, as well as a much higher net income at the end of the year, I am also willing to bet that if he had chosen to stay and teamed with complexity for much longer, he could have been destined for greatness ( and a very hefty income over his sc2 career)
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It was a year long contract yet you're speaking as though it would have effected the rest of his life
A 1 year long contract in a professional life DOES affects your entire life, no doubt about that.
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EPT
