EPTAnother Neural Parasite Change. - Page 48
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brachester
Australia1786 Posts
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Protosnake
France295 Posts
i think the main problem with neural parasite that its range is the same as collosus thermal lance range, so it's very easy for the zerg to just mass up infestor and counter heavy collossus which suppose to counter infestor Precisely, they both have the same range, so if the colossus are held in the back of that army, forcing infestor to advance and thus allowing the protoss to snipe them all one by one, how does it "counter" colossus ? This patch look like it's intended to stop protoss from being punished for horrible colossi control | ||
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DarkEnergy
Netherlands542 Posts
On September 16 2011 19:46 brachester wrote: i think the main problem with neural parasite that its range is the same as collosus thermal lance range, so it's very easy for the zerg to just mass up infestor and counter heavy collossus which suppose to counter infestor i think you miss the point that infestor and collosi are equal now. its up to the player's micro to find out who can neural or target fire faster. or do you think its ez for zerg ? maybe you think its unfair you have to target fire / use ability's instead of 1a ing ? in that case get real. edit: typo | ||
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
On September 16 2011 19:50 Protosnake wrote: Precisely, they both have the same range, so if the colossus are held in the back of that army, forcing infestor to advance and thus allowing the protoss to snipe them all one by one, how does it "counter" colossus ? This patch look like it's intended to stop protoss from being punished for horrible colossi control In practice what tends to happen is Zerg swarms all units with Lings while the Infestors quickly grab the Collosus, even if they are behind the Gateway army. This works very well when the number of Collosus is still low. I know Zergs tend to think otherwise but it's actually very hard to "snipe off" Infestors without Blink Stalkers when everything is surrounded by upgraded Lings (and possessed Collosus are raping your own army). To be fair it's usually the Zerg who miscontrols by leading with Infestors and getting them killed. Anyway, I feel this nerf correctly balances risk & reward for NP. Why do all you Z players think it's fair if every Infestor can just land NP for its full duration without being attacked  ? | ||
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kyarisan
United States347 Posts
that said, should the build be nerfed? it's a question of whether 2 base colossus timing pushes are too strong vs zerg. as a protoss player myself i heavily dislike using the colossus, and all i know is that one reason that robo tech has fallen out of style is because of builds like this, however - we all know where PvZ used to be, where all zergs were pidgeon-holed into using roach/hydra/corruptor, and i will openly admit it wasn't exactly fair what zerg players had to do to survive the midgame, and then with a ton of corruptors taking up supply, it was only a good idea to try to survive until broodlords, which made the matchup fairly one dimensional and one where protoss had all of the control. back when that style was predominant and i still relied on it, i did lose tons of games to random styles and random super risky moves that my scrubbiness wasn't solid enough to withstand, but from watching most GSL games that's what seemed to happen, if the zerg didn't actually just die to the 2 base deathball to begin with. overall i THINK a swarm of lings immobilizing the army, plus infestors coming in at an opportune angle, should still be able to crush super early pushes with no more than 3 colossi - but the zerg would also pretty much have to engage in a completely open area with no chokes... edit: beaten edit2: i think a 3 base colossus deathball (possibly maxed) with chargelots will be completely invulnerable to a neural that has 7 range. | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
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decaf
Austria1797 Posts
On September 16 2011 20:00 hugman wrote: Fungal is a lot like FF. If you get caught by it there's fuck all you can do. They're not fun mechanics and I think the game would be better without them. I second that! Remove FFs and fungal from the game. | ||
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Robstickle
Great Britain406 Posts
I don't understand why they think NP needs to be nerfed in the first place... | ||
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Protosnake
France295 Posts
In practice what tends to happen is Zerg swarms all units with Lings while the Infestors quickly grab the Collosus, even if they are behind the Gateway army. This works very well when the number of Collosus is still low. I know Zergs tend to think otherwise but it's actually very hard to "snipe off" Infestors without Blink Stalkers when everything is surrounded by upgraded Lings (and possessed Collosus are raping your own army). To be fair it's usually the Zerg who miscontrols by leading with Infestors and getting them killed. Anyway, I feel this nerf correctly balances risk & reward for NP. Why do all you Z players think it's fair if every Infestor can just land NP for its full duration without being attacked ? If the colossus is held BACK at max range, you wont need blink, infestor will be litteraly in melee range of the stalker, just shift click and win. Blizzard is basicly fixing a issue that can be resolved by proper control, it will just allow protoss to 1a without being punished | ||
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provrorsbarn
Sweden766 Posts
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amd098
Korea (North)1366 Posts
range 7 means you can easily snipe the infestor behind the roaches | ||
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Inex
Bulgaria443 Posts
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Robstickle
Great Britain406 Posts
On September 16 2011 20:14 Inex wrote: Pretty good change. Infestors are still one of the best casters in the game, they can summon a whole army, immobilize an army and poses an army, and if range becomes such a problem maybe you can learn to drop infestors mid-battle. Why would dropping infestors help? They'll just get insta gibbed within a second of casting np. | ||
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choopakabra
53 Posts
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Hammer442
Australia749 Posts
On September 16 2011 20:14 Inex wrote: Pretty good change. Infestors are still one of the best casters in the game, they can summon a whole army, immobilize an army and poses an army, and if range becomes such a problem maybe you can learn to drop infestors mid-battle. You can't drop infestors like HT can be dropped for storm though, storm = instant, NP = channeled. They will be killed before the NP goes off. | ||
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
On September 16 2011 20:09 Protosnake wrote: If the colossus is held BACK at max range, you wont need blink, infestor will be litteraly in melee range of the stalker, just shift click and win. Blizzard is basicly fixing a issue that can be resolved by proper control, it will just allow protoss to 1a without being punished It's not as 1 dimensional as you say. Zerg can also show some proper control by for example flanking Collosus from behind thus easily NP'ing it anyway if the Gateway army is way in front of it. Also, keeping Collosus so far away from your Gateway army also allows Ling to just run in & surround them. As a Zerg you should know they actually die fairly quickly when your Lings get the surface area. Similar to your argument I could argue 2 Rax is easily stopped by Zerg with 'proper control', i.e. surrounding Marines with Drones and quickly killing SCVs building Bunkers but in practice it doesn't work that way and Terran doesn't just 1A Marines. | ||
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T0fuuu
Australia2275 Posts
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
And those who say you can still NP collosus are just completelly clueless or play in silver league. | ||
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[GoT]Zeta
Germany108 Posts
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
180hp with 1 armor, hahaha. | ||
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