|
I can't tell if half the people in this thread are huge trolls or like complaining for the sake of it.
Stop being being so overdramatic, half of you are acting as if they patched it so banelings can no longer be loaded in to overlords period.
As stated before, this is a BUG FIX. Meaning there was something innately broken, that is now being fixed.
For those of you saying "well, considering how a baneling works, it would make sense for it to be able to drop on top of things even if there isn't space". I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but there are a lot of things that occur in this game that don't seem physically possible, but somehow are; as well as some things that should be allowed to occur, logically, but a las can not.
Yes, logically a baneling should be able to drop out of the sky and explode on impact on to a clump of units. However, following that logic, a COMMAND CENTER should be able to land on a BURROWED ZERGLING. Unfortunately, neither of these actions can actually occur in game.
There are rules and restrictions to this game. Some of them follow the logic of physics, some follow the logic of balance, and others follow the logic of the game engine.
|
On September 13 2011 02:34 YumYumGranola wrote:
You guys are overthinking this. Basically you couldn't unload over dense areas before. The definition of "dense" is no free grid spaces on the ground below the OL. As there are free spaces when probes mine for example, this will have absolutely no affect. When toss armies engage usually they leave spaces as units move to engage, that's why everybody thinks you can unload over "dense" areas, but you must realize the definition of dense isn't just "a lot of units" it's "so many units that there's absolutely no space". I suppose you used to be able to get around that if you were to blindly order a baneling drop onto an army that you couldn't see (dont think that happens too often), which is why it's classified as a bug fix. But in terms of normal baneling drop usage it makes absolutely no difference.
Cheers!
Then home come it worked in the 1.3 video?
|
calm down guys 99% sure this is only a bug blizz cant be that stupid 
|
On September 13 2011 02:37 EmilA wrote:I went on the EU PTR and I was unable to replicate the bug in the OP - drop command went through when I had vision without any problems whatsoever![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2KZ2H.png) Edit: This was with the zealots all put to follow on the center zealot
I'm not certain, but I believe you did this test on a test map which was put out a long time ago. Is it possible that the changes didn't go through in the test map? With units training time being reduced and such, maybe the PTR balance and bug changes didn't influence these older maps.
|
Blazinghand
United States25558 Posts
On September 13 2011 02:38 ohampatu wrote:
Sorry blazing. Somehow quote got messed up, logged me out.
Do this test:
Make a square of 8 gw's.
Try and use Terran dropships on top of the gw.
Try and use Protoss dropships on top of the gw.
Try and use Zerg dropshiops on top of the gw.
Only the zerg's will work. This is not fair.
I'm fairly sure that the problem with baneling drops isn't bane drops being used to attack Gateways, but rather, its interaction with protoss deathball.
|
On September 13 2011 02:40 ZealotKiller wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 02:37 EmilA wrote:I went on the EU PTR and I was unable to replicate the bug in the OP - drop command went through when I had vision without any problems whatsoeverEdit: This was with the zealots all put to follow on the center zealot I'm not certain, but I believe you did this test on a test map which was put out a long time ago. Is it possible that the changes didn't go through in the test map? With units training time being reduced and such, maybe the PTR balance and bug changes didn't influence these older maps.
Wasn't the original video taken on a test map?o_O
|
I'm sorry, but I'm going to say this. Blizzard is fucking stupid and has no fucking clue what their doing.
Bane drops and the use of infestors were the original tools that zergs used to first beat the protoss death ball. Now that they are both being nerfed, we're going to go back to how the match up used to be.
Serious, Blizzard has no fucking clue about what their doing. The game must have some serious basic design flaws if they have to put through a patch of this caliber.
Lets hope HoTS fundamentally changes concepts and design flaws from the this shitty era of WoL.
|
On September 13 2011 02:38 ohampatu wrote:
Sorry blazing. Somehow quote got messed up, logged me out.
Do this test:
Make a square of 8 gw's.
Try and use Terran dropships on top of the gw.
Try and use Protoss dropships on top of the gw.
Try and use Zerg dropshiops on top of the gw.
Only the zerg's will work. This is not fair.
I.. don't know what to say. I pray that this is a troll..
|
To be fair, why should banelings need ground space to drop? Logically, the banelings are just dropping on top of units and exploding. Not the same as a unit landing on the ground and than attacking.
And I'm talking from a purely practical perspective. Not a gameplay or SC2 perspective. If you drop a bomb on top of someone, you don't need it to hit the ground first lol
|
Blazinghand
United States25558 Posts
On September 13 2011 02:39 spbelky wrote:
I can't tell if half the people in this thread are huge trolls or like complaining for the sake of it.
Stop being being so overdramatic, half of you are acting as if they patched it so banelings can no longer be loaded in to overlords period.
As stated before, this is a BUG FIX. Meaning there was something innately broken, that is now being fixed.
For those of you saying "well, considering how a baneling works, it would make sense for it to be able to drop on top of things even if there isn't space". I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but there are a lot of things that occur in this game that don't seem physically possible, but somehow are; as well as some things that should be allowed to occur, logically, but a las can not.
Yes, logically a baneling should be able to drop out of the sky and explode on impact on to a clump of units. However, following that logic, a COMMAND CENTER should be able to land on a BURROWED ZERGLING. Unfortunately, neither of these actions can actually occur in game.
There are rules and restrictions to this game. Some of them follow the logic of physics, some follow the logic of balance, and others follow the logic of the game engine.
It's also worth noting, however, that a lot of cool game mechanics (muta stacking, etc) that are pretty pro are based off of what was initially considered bugs.
|
interesting change, from what they say in the patch it looks a bit different so might be a bug that it works that way (or bug in the unit tester  ) ?. I can completly understand it though, they wanted to keep protoss bwish with the giant ball killing everything and you have to try and wear it down before it reaches your main . And those baneling drops were quiet nasty unless you had high templars which completly destroyed that :3. And without a deatball wasn't to problematic ... with it deatball never stood a chance
But damn I love this change ... i am imagining 30 workers right now cuddling under an overlord to prevent baneling dropping, that will look so awesome.
And for those not looking at the vids. The banelings post 1.4 get moved to the side of the deatball and not drop in the middle. If the overlords are to far over the the deathball (3 zealots to each side) the drop command will be canceled. There was no fog involved in the test.
Its done in a custom map though sadly.
Anyway if i see a deathball fight against this and fungal especially with sentrys involved there are tons of holes. so the Person should have tested what happens if there is a small zealot big hole, which i think is pretty common in a 4 zealot radius.
Also do colossi count i would say no since units can move below them. So in my eyes this change only forces a zerg to do more micro nothing else. Cuddling against infestors so banelings won't hit yeah sure .
What would be more interesting is what happens if there is fog of war. Since this affects terran far more heavily then it does the zerg. dropping at 4 times will require way more actions now. And well banelings won't work auto anymore, so you can distract the enemy that effectiv anymore. (in ladder make some banelings drops to every base run a few lings into the opponents army and they will have no workers left, works up to master)
|
On September 13 2011 02:39 spbelky wrote:
I can't tell if half the people in this thread are huge trolls or like complaining for the sake of it.
Stop being being so overdramatic, half of you are acting as if they patched it so banelings can no longer be loaded in to overlords period.
As stated before, this is a BUG FIX. Meaning there was something innately broken, that is now being fixed.
For those of you saying "well, considering how a baneling works, it would make sense for it to be able to drop on top of things even if there isn't space". I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but there are a lot of things that occur in this game that don't seem physically possible, but somehow are; as well as some things that should be allowed to occur, logically, but a las can not.
Yes, logically a baneling should be able to drop out of the sky and explode on impact on to a clump of units. However, following that logic, a COMMAND CENTER should be able to land on a BURROWED ZERGLING. Unfortunately, neither of these actions can actually occur in game.
There are rules and restrictions to this game. Some of them follow the logic of physics, some follow the logic of balance, and others follow the logic of the game engine.
Yeah! Overlord muta stack is bug, blizz fixed it.... oh wait.
There are many many micro tricks much like this one in SC1, and thanks to them, that SC1 was more interesting than 1A into another 1A ball.
|
As a toss player I don't really get this change.
I agreed with the NP nerf, but if you can't deal with baneling drops as toss you don't deserve to win.
Zerg choices are getting pretty limited again this way/
|
Well actualy it makes sense that banes can be dropped like in patch 1.3 however protoss mostly only has a chance on surviving with balling up and fighting a balled protoss never loses a zerg straight out a game.
In some cases avoiding a slow ball often gives zerg the win too.
Its just that Blizzard has to keep balance in mind and yes stun + utterly strong splash that basicly makes any kind of defensive play impossible ( not meaning u cant wall ur base and stay behind it but once u are forced to defend more bases a wall wont do anymore.)
still making balance changed now with HoTS on the door wont change major winrates , basic game maths and equal amount of possibilitys with nearly equal micro rewarding effect will be needed to make this game worth staying for years to come in the competive buiseness .
I for myself can say confident im the most experienced player in EU and thus i know whats wrong with the game (im a protoss ) didnt ladder for nearly a month.
all i can say is enjoy the game and look forward for HoTS :>.
E: offtopic :
big thumbs up nevertheless for fixing blinking over 1 ff at ramp
but generaly the main issues in PvT wont fade about PvZ i better stay silent :> except for the fact that i dont get why a protoss ever loses to zergs :D
|
On September 13 2011 02:33 NotSorry wrote:
Unless the protoss is constantly clicking move to a center point the units will be spread more than enough to not effect baneling drops. Stop crying before you even test it, the video is invalid because you're never going to see 60zealots standing in a perfect square not moving at all, and if you do then laugh as you 1a them with roaches then proceed to bane-rain uninterrupted the second he moves a step with any of them.
This, hahaha I actually went and test it on the PTR and yeah the Protoss needs to be constantly clumping their units to Hinder the bling drops, which leaves the more vulnerable to Fungal.
Talk about overhype. I don´t think this (if it comes live, which i think it will be at least tweaked) will be a factor most of the time.
|
On September 13 2011 02:40 ZealotKiller wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 02:37 EmilA wrote:I went on the EU PTR and I was unable to replicate the bug in the OP - drop command went through when I had vision without any problems whatsoeverEdit: This was with the zealots all put to follow on the center zealot I'm not certain, but I believe you did this test on a test map which was put out a long time ago. Is it possible that the changes didn't go through in the test map? With units training time being reduced and such, maybe the PTR balance and bug changes didn't influence these older maps.
I am still editing and testing, when I made the ball bigger it started displacing the banelings a bit. I am testing how big a ball it takes for it to possibly stop the command completely now. Though I think the complete stop of drops would be a bug, not a balance fix.
|
On September 13 2011 02:40 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 02:38 ohampatu wrote:
Sorry blazing. Somehow quote got messed up, logged me out.
Do this test:
Make a square of 8 gw's.
Try and use Terran dropships on top of the gw.
Try and use Protoss dropships on top of the gw.
Try and use Zerg dropshiops on top of the gw.
Only the zerg's will work. This is not fair. I'm fairly sure that the problem with baneling drops isn't bane drops being used to attack Gateways, but rather, its interaction with protoss deathball.
You misunderstand. The test above proves that Zerg drops aren't following the same 'rules' that Terran and Protoss's are. I dont care how long its been being used. If i can't duplicate the same drop pattern you can do on a different race, its bugged. Get off your high horse. Too many zerg have been doing ez drops on us thinking is ok, and its not. Also, this is ptr. They are prolly working on the code to perfect it how they want.
They dont care 'how youve been playing for months'.
|
I love the rage when people cannot even replicate the video... In fact are able to do drops just fine on PTR.
|
On September 13 2011 02:41 DoomsVille wrote:
To be fair, why should banelings need ground space to drop? Logically, the banelings are just dropping on top of units and exploding. Not the same as a unit landing on the ground and than attacking.
And I'm talking from a purely practical perspective. Not a gameplay or SC2 perspective. If you drop a bomb on top of someone, you don't need it to hit the ground first lol
Their attack is exploding. They are not bombs. They are units. Just because something is called a bomb in a game (by spectators, not designers, mind you) because it looks like something in the real world doesn't mean that it has to take the form of that specific thing. How do you know what it was intended to be or look like?
|
Just when I started doing baneling drops on Protoss, dammit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
