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On September 13 2011 02:31 ishkabibble wrote:
I'm a little unsure about all these comments. In lategame if you clump up your units perfectly you will still get rolled by infestors. It's not like every game that Z wins was won because of baneling drops, and roach hydra corruptor will no longer be the only viable strategy.
1. Roach/Hydra/Corrupter is hardly a viable strategy vs the deathball. It flat out loses to it.
2. Infestors are being nerfed vs deathball. Can't NP colossus and reduced dmg on both fronts (vs light and armored).
Now you're nerfing banes, imo the best viable solution to Protosses attempting to deathball (I always liked them better than infestors). Unbelievable.
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On September 13 2011 02:32 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 02:29 ohampatu wrote:On September 13 2011 02:27 Blazinghand wrote:On September 13 2011 02:23 Jayrod wrote:
You guys are reading this exactly backwards. First of all, its a bug fix... what was bugged before is now unbugged... keep that in mind.
What is happening in 1.3 is that zerg players are able to drop banelings onto armies that are completely balled up and, thus, should leave no landing zone for the zerg to drop their banes. Baneling drops should NOT be able to be performed AT ALL in situations where there is no landing zone... that is by design... its the same for all drop ships... you cannot drop your units onto an area that is occupied by other ground units. The bug is being fixed in 1.4 so now banelings are no longer the exception to that rule.
If any of you watch Liquid`Tylers stream when its up you'll see alot of times he balls his stalkers up intentionally to eliminate possible landing area for baneling bombs... You'll also see that it NEVER works... its through no fault of his own, but rather, through the fault of this bug, which is being fixed.
Does it affect gameplay? Absolutely. Should that gameplay have been possible to begin with? Absolutely not. On the other hand, things like muta-stacking with an overlord in BW was basically a bug that shouldn't have been possible (or wraith-stacking with a sieged-up tank), and yet became a crucial element of gameplay. How the game was designed and how it ought to be played are not always the same. On September 13 2011 02:21 windsupernova wrote:On September 13 2011 02:18 N3rV[Green] wrote:
Baneling drops were just really really really fucking scary. I for one am glad I won't be seeing my ENTIRE ARMY turn into green goo while I can't move them cause they're all fungaled.
Well, the counter for that was... spliting your army and sniping the bananalings :D Easier said than done, given that stalkers don't have quite the burst dps of marines against overlords. Still, I thought it made games pretty exciting to watch  Since im seeing you are one who is defending it pretty hard, even if it is a bug. The gw test that I mentioned up above. Can you tell me how exactly that is fair? Unless its changed recently, only zerg's will work. Thats just plain not fair. Sorry can you rephrase? I don't understand the following sentence: "The gw test that I mentioned up above." It's a bit early in the morning and I haven't really had my coffee lol.
I myeself haven't tested. But for testing purposes id like to see a person do the following.
As Toss: Make a large square of 8 gw's. Try and drop onto the gw's with terran dropships. Now try to drop with protoss dropships. Now try to drop with zerg dropships.
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On September 13 2011 02:29 Logros wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 02:26 TolEranceNA wrote:On September 13 2011 02:23 Jayrod wrote:
You guys are reading this exactly backwards. First of all, its a bug fix... what was bugged before is now unbugged... keep that in mind.
What is happening in 1.3 is that zerg players are able to drop banelings onto armies that are completely balled up and, thus, should leave no landing zone for the zerg to drop their banes. Baneling drops should NOT be able to be performed AT ALL in situations where there is no landing zone... that is by design... its the same for all drop ships... you cannot drop your units onto an area that is occupied by other ground units. The bug is being fixed in 1.4 so now banelings are no longer the exception to that rule.
If any of you watch Liquid`Tylers stream when its up you'll see alot of times he balls his stalkers up intentionally to eliminate possible landing area for baneling bombs... You'll also see that it NEVER works... its through no fault of his own, but rather, through the fault of this bug, which is being fixed.
Does it affect gameplay? Absolutely. Should that gameplay have been possible to begin with? Absolutely not. On September 13 2011 02:24 TheKefka wrote:
This is so funny watching people rage at the most obviously bugged thing off all time. It is so funny to watching protoss laughing at one of the only innovative zerg tactic every invented being removed from the game so they can 1-A like before. It is so funny to watch zergs overreact as multiple people in this thread have already said that baneling drops are still possible.
You are so funny because i was clearing not refering to Baneling rain NOT-being accessible but i was actually laughing at the Amove protoss, besides the 2nd quoted user because i mis-understood or he just didnt provide enough information information for me to think otherwise.
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You guys are overthinking this. Basically you couldn't unload over dense areas before. The definition of "dense" is no free grid spaces on the ground below the OL. As there are free spaces when probes mine for example, this will have absolutely no affect. When toss armies engage usually they leave spaces as units move to engage, that's why everybody thinks you can unload over "dense" areas, but you must realize the definition of dense isn't just "a lot of units" it's "so many units that there's absolutely no space". I suppose you used to be able to get around that if you were to blindly order a baneling drop onto an army that you couldn't see (dont think that happens too often), which is why it's classified as a bug fix. But in terms of normal baneling drop usage it makes absolutely no difference.
Cheers!
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On September 13 2011 02:31 Sated wrote:
Zergs realise that this is a bugfix, right? Units shouldn't be able to be dropped onto locations were there literally isn't any space for them. Can you imagine a Protoss ball politely making room for a marine to land in the middle of them? Of course not. The same is true with Banelings. Sounds like this is the dropship equivalent of stopping buildings landing by putting a unit under them.
.. Wow. So you'd kill off an entire part of the game that IS one of the only strategies in ZvP that requires ANY micro skill at all (the most micro intensive strategy in the game bar none, for both races), and is one of the only multitasking strategies in the matchup (mutas and roach/hydra drop has equivalent multitasking requirements) because........ you're not "supposed" to drop banelings onto armies? Jesus. What completely stupid reasoning.
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On September 13 2011 02:28 Sqq wrote:
This is just terrible. I'm not sure what Blizzards reason for doing this is ? As soon as there are some micro tricks they nerf them out. It wasn't even overpowered or anything. It just made both sides micro harder ? I'm actually shocked and do not understand the reasoning here.
This micro ¨trick¨ has been around since Launch, this is obviously an unintended consequence.Really if they considered banneling drops a bug or OP they would have nerfed it a long time ago.
CALM DOWN GUYS
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On September 13 2011 02:34 ohampatu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 02:32 Blazinghand wrote:On September 13 2011 02:29 ohampatu wrote:On September 13 2011 02:27 Blazinghand wrote:On September 13 2011 02:23 Jayrod wrote:
You guys are reading this exactly backwards. First of all, its a bug fix... what was bugged before is now unbugged... keep that in mind.
What is happening in 1.3 is that zerg players are able to drop banelings onto armies that are completely balled up and, thus, should leave no landing zone for the zerg to drop their banes. Baneling drops should NOT be able to be performed AT ALL in situations where there is no landing zone... that is by design... its the same for all drop ships... you cannot drop your units onto an area that is occupied by other ground units. The bug is being fixed in 1.4 so now banelings are no longer the exception to that rule.
If any of you watch Liquid`Tylers stream when its up you'll see alot of times he balls his stalkers up intentionally to eliminate possible landing area for baneling bombs... You'll also see that it NEVER works... its through no fault of his own, but rather, through the fault of this bug, which is being fixed.
Does it affect gameplay? Absolutely. Should that gameplay have been possible to begin with? Absolutely not. On the other hand, things like muta-stacking with an overlord in BW was basically a bug that shouldn't have been possible (or wraith-stacking with a sieged-up tank), and yet became a crucial element of gameplay. How the game was designed and how it ought to be played are not always the same. On September 13 2011 02:21 windsupernova wrote:On September 13 2011 02:18 N3rV[Green] wrote:
Baneling drops were just really really really fucking scary. I for one am glad I won't be seeing my ENTIRE ARMY turn into green goo while I can't move them cause they're all fungaled.
Well, the counter for that was... spliting your army and sniping the bananalings :D Easier said than done, given that stalkers don't have quite the burst dps of marines against overlords. Still, I thought it made games pretty exciting to watch Since im seeing you are one who is defending it pretty hard, even if it is a bug. The gw test that I mentioned up above. Can you tell me how exactly that is fair? I myeself haven't tested. But for testing purposes id like to see a person do the following. As Toss: Make a large square of 8 gw's. Try and drop onto the gw's with terran dropships. Now try to drop with protoss dropships. Now try to drop with zerg dropships. Unless its changed recently, only zerg's will work. Thats just plain not fair. Sorry can you rephrase? I don't understand the following sentence: "The gw test that I mentioned up above." It's a bit early in the morning and I haven't really had my coffee lol.
I... what? This is actually less coherent than your original post, as you seem to have quoted me and added words to my post. I'm sorry  could you post again? I know it's busy in here but it sounds like you have a good point and I want to understand it.
EDIT AH HERE WE GO
On September 13 2011 02:34 ohampatu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 02:32 Blazinghand wrote:On September 13 2011 02:29 ohampatu wrote:On September 13 2011 02:27 Blazinghand wrote:On September 13 2011 02:23 Jayrod wrote:
You guys are reading this exactly backwards. First of all, its a bug fix... what was bugged before is now unbugged... keep that in mind.
What is happening in 1.3 is that zerg players are able to drop banelings onto armies that are completely balled up and, thus, should leave no landing zone for the zerg to drop their banes. Baneling drops should NOT be able to be performed AT ALL in situations where there is no landing zone... that is by design... its the same for all drop ships... you cannot drop your units onto an area that is occupied by other ground units. The bug is being fixed in 1.4 so now banelings are no longer the exception to that rule.
If any of you watch Liquid`Tylers stream when its up you'll see alot of times he balls his stalkers up intentionally to eliminate possible landing area for baneling bombs... You'll also see that it NEVER works... its through no fault of his own, but rather, through the fault of this bug, which is being fixed.
Does it affect gameplay? Absolutely. Should that gameplay have been possible to begin with? Absolutely not. On the other hand, things like muta-stacking with an overlord in BW was basically a bug that shouldn't have been possible (or wraith-stacking with a sieged-up tank), and yet became a crucial element of gameplay. How the game was designed and how it ought to be played are not always the same. On September 13 2011 02:21 windsupernova wrote:On September 13 2011 02:18 N3rV[Green] wrote:
Baneling drops were just really really really fucking scary. I for one am glad I won't be seeing my ENTIRE ARMY turn into green goo while I can't move them cause they're all fungaled.
Well, the counter for that was... spliting your army and sniping the bananalings :D Easier said than done, given that stalkers don't have quite the burst dps of marines against overlords. Still, I thought it made games pretty exciting to watch Since im seeing you are one who is defending it pretty hard, even if it is a bug. The gw test that I mentioned up above. Can you tell me how exactly that is fair? Unless its changed recently, only zerg's will work. Thats just plain not fair. Sorry can you rephrase? I don't understand the following sentence: "The gw test that I mentioned up above." It's a bit early in the morning and I haven't really had my coffee lol. I myeself haven't tested. But for testing purposes id like to see a person do the following. As Toss: Make a large square of 8 gw's. Try and drop onto the gw's with terran dropships. Now try to drop with protoss dropships. Now try to drop with zerg dropships.
I think that we're talking about dropping on balls of units, not gateways.
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On September 13 2011 02:33 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 02:26 hugman wrote:On September 13 2011 02:23 Jayrod wrote:
You guys are reading this exactly backwards. First of all, its a bug fix... what was bugged before is now unbugged... keep that in mind. Bug or not it's a very important part of the game. There are plenty of good bugs in many esports titles, strafe jumping for one, mulatisk stacking is another Is it important because its exploitable or important because nothing has been created to be more innovative than dumping banelings on your enemy?
What? It's important for balance. Nothing to do with "because it's exploitable." I still argue it's hardly even an exploit, it's utterly stupid you can't drop a SUICIDE unit that's meant to explode on contact on an enemy army. You don't drop marines as bombs onto the enemy, they're meant to land and fight, with banelings you want the opposite effect.
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lol jesus, what's with the hostility towards me. I was just explaining what the fix does. I just said baneling bombs were never intended to be able to be dropped on top of stacked up units. The way they wrote the bug fix note is confusing but thats because it HAD to be confusing to be correct. The bug allowed them to drop on top of stacked up armies, but it only happened when dropping on fog of war. Try dropping banelings on your own zerg army that is stacked up... it doesnt work at all... there's no room.
I think baneling bombs are exciting to watch, but its still a bug... not sure if they should fix it or not...
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On September 13 2011 02:34 arbitrageur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 02:31 Sated wrote:
Zergs realise that this is a bugfix, right? Units shouldn't be able to be dropped onto locations were there literally isn't any space for them. Can you imagine a Protoss ball politely making room for a marine to land in the middle of them? Of course not. The same is true with Banelings. Sounds like this is the dropship equivalent of stopping buildings landing by putting a unit under them. .. Wow. So you'd kill off an entire part of the game that IS one of the only strategies in ZvP that requires any micro skill at all, and is one of the only multitasking strategies in the matchup because........ you're not "supposed" to drop banelings onto armies? Jesus. What horrible reasoning.
Also banelings are like bombs. Technically they don't need any room to be landed. They can just drop on top of your head and will have the exact same effect. So any "logical" reasoning seems misplaced
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On September 13 2011 02:32 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 02:23 Jayrod wrote:
You guys are reading this exactly backwards. First of all, its a bug fix... what was bugged before is now unbugged... keep that in mind.
What is happening in 1.3 is that zerg players are able to drop banelings onto armies that are completely balled up and, thus, should leave no landing zone for the zerg to drop their banes. Baneling drops should NOT be able to be performed AT ALL in situations where there is no landing zone... that is by design... its the same for all drop ships... you cannot drop your units onto an area that is occupied by other ground units. The bug is being fixed in 1.4 so now banelings are no longer the exception to that rule.
If any of you watch Liquid`Tylers stream when its up you'll see alot of times he balls his stalkers up intentionally to eliminate possible landing area for baneling bombs... You'll also see that it NEVER works... its through no fault of his own, but rather, through the fault of this bug, which is being fixed.
Does it affect gameplay? Absolutely. Should that gameplay have been possible to begin with? Absolutely not. immortal were designed to tank damage rather than that burst dps (from the words of bliz) would you say immortal should never have that dps?
Immortals have an attack. They are meant to deal damage...
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On September 13 2011 02:23 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 02:21 windsupernova wrote:On September 13 2011 02:18 N3rV[Green] wrote:
Baneling drops were just really really really fucking scary. I for one am glad I won't be seeing my ENTIRE ARMY turn into green goo while I can't move them cause they're all fungaled.
Well, the counter for that was... spliting your army and sniping the bananalings :D Well if this goes through the counter would be... stacking your army and making sure it doesn't split :D
that's how you deal with almost every zerg comp tbh (any that doesn't involve bane drop or infestor). but then they get fungal and you have to spread which makes your units shit against roach hydra because ff becomes bad
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On September 13 2011 02:33 NotSorry wrote:
Unless the protoss is constantly clicking move to a center point the units will be spread more than enough to not effect baneling drops. Stop crying before you even test it, the video is invalid because you're never going to see 60zealots standing in a perfect square not moving at all, and if you do then laugh as you 1a them with roaches then proceed to bane-rain uninterrupted the second he moves a step with any of them.
This. The situation in the video is not even close to what would happen in a normal game.
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Edit: Read test conclusion a few pages ahead. Sorry for this post
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Woah, the way the videos look, they broke move-drop completely. Surely this isn't what they meant to do.
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On September 13 2011 02:37 EmilA wrote:I went on the EU PTR and I was unable to replicate the bug in the OP - drop command went through when I had vision without any problems whatsoever![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2KZ2H.png)
QFT,told you it was a bug in the video.
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Executor! Banelings are falling from the sky!
Quick, everyone huddle closer!
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Hate to break it to you... but seriously, this has ACTUALLY been around for a while, Protosses have been screen blinking then hold positioning stalkers so that they could only take radial damage for a while now... all you have to do as a zerg is force the protoss into motion then the banelings fall into the gaps... which means in 90% of real game situations this will change nothing.
It's a game bug... a unit can't land on a unit... that's how it's always supposed to have been....
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Sorry blazing. Somehow quote got messed up, logged me out.
Do this test:
Make a square of 8 gw's.
Try and use Terran dropships on top of the gw.
Try and use Protoss dropships on top of the gw.
Try and use Zerg dropshiops on top of the gw.
Only the zerg's will work. This is not fair.
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This is just getting absurd now, are they just desperately hoping to see more toss deathballs?
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EPT
